Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of The Ribos Operation (4/4)

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Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of The Ribos Operation (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blunt pen knife we're doing quicker.
0:37
Quicker. Welcome back to a hamster with a
0:39
blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
0:43
Here we are shaking our bones. I'm Martin Unstaffed Parsons,
0:47
and with me always up for one last big job is Joe Garren Ford.
0:52
You sound like Mrs. Slocum. Was you doing an impression of
0:57
the Seeker? That's what I started off.
1:01
God, I thought we were back in sitcom territory.
1:03
My Jim Trot, Binro, they're all. They're all together at last.
1:09
Hello, I'm delighted to be here on the planet Rebus.
1:13
I believe we are in the ice time right now.
1:16
Yeah, probably feels like it, definitely.
1:18
I've been rubbing my string stone to keep warm.
1:23
Keep those stringers away. Right.
1:25
Saving up my OpEx. You know, I believe you can bank
1:29
them alongside Groszits. Yeah, yeah.
1:34
Does. Does Garen know Glitz?
1:36
Did they know each other? Did they meet?
1:39
What was the money in Carnival and Monster credit bars?
1:42
I mean bars homes man just created an entire economy.
1:45
Who would? Who would cut?
1:47
Who would come off best if you had to glitz versus Garen?
1:51
He would. He would.
1:52
He would, he would do over the other one.
1:54
I don't know. I think Garen would do over
1:58
Glitz, but Glitz might pull out a gun and shoot him right so you
2:02
know. Garen's been all joking.
2:03
Glitz just kneecaps him. He's like no fuck, I wasn't
2:06
expensing this. I was trying to think then
2:08
Holmes really has created lots of monetary systems.
2:11
Remember the 20 nog notes in the Two Doctors?
2:14
30 nog note Yeah. Noggs.
2:16
OpEx and Grotzitz. Oh my.
2:19
What are they is does is spectrox?
2:22
Do they pay for that in something or do they just use
2:24
spectrox as a? Considered a commodity.
2:27
Is it? Yeah.
2:27
It's just, it's that in itself, isn't it?
2:29
You know, I hear if you if you sort of use white fluid as a
2:35
sort of skin cleanser, you know, it can make you look 50 years
2:39
younger case. You're looking very nice and
2:41
young. I'm sorry.
2:43
Thank you. Thank.
2:46
You. I've been covered.
2:48
Oh, sorry, you blew your load in episode 1.
2:51
You know, talking about. OK.
2:53
Please will you move us on from this?
2:55
Yes, yes, right. Before we're cancelled
2:59
immediately or mild raft packs his bags one or the other.
3:03
I've got to check that on the right episode again.
3:04
OK, episode 40. Buckery.
3:06
Yeah, I need to too. OK, Yes, I am.
3:08
I am all right. Oh, was it me?
3:12
I've got a yes. You're going to cast in?
3:13
Yeah. Oh.
3:13
OK, I should do it in my finest bin row 3210.
3:22
That was terrible. I'm so sorry, so sorry.
3:26
We're not here to get our impressions this.
3:28
Episode well you know we're going a while now you know like.
3:31
Speakers back soon. Oh.
3:33
Wonderful. Yes, this is the one with the
3:36
prophecy. Now I want to see if they're
3:43
willing to start the episode on the graph, indicate like there
3:46
was an episode free. And then my question will be,
3:48
well, yeah, they are. So why aren't they willing to
3:52
end them? No, it is a very, very strange
3:57
and I do like that they kind of go for really each time they do
4:01
the recap, they go straight to the doctor doing something.
4:03
So at the end of in start of episode 3, it was straight to
4:06
the doctor being like wait, wait, wait.
4:07
And this one's straight to blow the whistle.
4:09
I like the dog whistling. I really, I really do.
4:13
Good grief, what a monstrous beast.
4:17
Would you look at the teeth on that?
4:19
Oh, those floppy wrists that have been.
4:21
Yeah, OK. Yeah, it's and again, it's like,
4:24
why did they need? Did we have to have the the the
4:27
hands? Could we not have sort of shot
4:29
it a little bit higher? I don't know.
4:30
Just put it in the shadows so you can just sort of see
4:33
something moving. Yeah, but even, yeah, even if
4:36
you just filled it where we couldn't see the legs and you
4:38
just had it kneeling on a board that you pulled along would
4:40
probably look a bit better than that.
4:42
But. This about Freitas and the
4:44
Labyrinth. This is great.
4:48
Again, it's just sort of filling time, but.
4:52
The air's the same martyr and heavy and damp with a stench of
4:55
death things crunching under our feet.
4:58
I mean, it's quite vivid. It is it's, it's, it's horrible.
5:04
Again, though, I get a sense of a shared military history
5:07
between these two, just with a few lines and no money at all,
5:11
no. No, no, no, no.
5:15
You should have brought that old bone shaker.
5:19
The seeker. Oh dear, I love the fact that
5:23
every time he sort of realises something he goes fuck, good
5:26
grief shellac. You know he gets a great close
5:29
up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does.
5:31
And but he really uses it and he sells it.
5:35
I think there's just this bit. So sweet.
5:37
Have a little rest, Have a sit down.
5:38
Big no. No, I can go on.
5:42
He's like, I'm thinking of myself as well.
5:44
He's like, oh, in that. Case go on then space travel.
5:48
How do you do it, my friend? How do you travel amongst the
5:52
stars? Just the look in his eyes, it's
5:55
like, I can't believe this is this is true.
5:59
I was right. You know what I mean?
6:02
Yeah. One day someone will come in
6:04
here and endorse all the double entendres I've done on.
6:08
It was the right approach, Joe. I knew it.
6:12
I knew it. No.
6:13
Was right. No, don't ever say that.
6:18
Fucking hell. Oh, now look, the three of them
6:21
are all hugging up. Together, this is great, the
6:23
three in the bed thing, but also they're like, again, they're
6:25
not. No one's looking for them at
6:27
this point, they just assume that they're all still locked
6:30
up. I like Garen trying to talk
6:32
through Ramana's feathers and it's like, it's very quick.
6:37
Was it? Don't bicker, Never bicker, No
6:39
bickering. Oh, dear.
6:44
OK, so they're splitting up now. Doctor, why do you do this?
6:46
It never ends well. You go this way, I'll go that
6:49
way. And.
6:50
Just like that. Do something.
6:53
As he said to K9, yeah, about pissing up the walls.
6:56
I love that bit. No stopping at all.
6:59
No stopping. At the corners.
7:03
Oh, no, this is it. Yeah.
7:05
Now look, Kayla, no time to explain.
7:07
Just get after it all right? And he very slowly trundles.
7:12
On but that and it's like you can hear it so loudly with the
7:15
sound up as I was like God, is there no better?
7:17
Could you not have done this slightly differently?
7:19
I mean, that's a fairly dreary prop to Jeffrey, but so much
7:23
weight has been given to it. I just believe it can do all the
7:27
things they say it can do. And I do think it looks, it's
7:31
quite a pretty shade of blue. That's what I'll say.
7:33
I think it looks quite good. At the end when they get it,
7:36
turn it into the segment. Sort of.
7:38
It's a very Doctor Who sort of a question, but what do you
7:41
prefer, you know? Oh no, I've forgotten what it's
7:45
called. Metabilis crystal or.
7:47
Well, I do like a metabilis crystal now.
7:49
You know the crystals they find in the pirate planet.
7:52
The very next story on the floor, you know the Ulian.
7:55
That's it. Ulian.
7:56
Oh, yeah, that's sort of is a green glowing.
8:02
Ah, so this was going to be their last job.
8:05
He talks of going back to Hackney Wick and that stuff's
8:10
just like because, well, I don't know, we don't know where
8:11
Anstuff's from, do we? But he's he's not from Earth,
8:14
I'd assume, or he's from some, but he just doesn't.
8:17
He's like, I don't know what the fuck?
8:18
Hackney Wick. Is Ben Royer's got a fucking
8:20
clue? Has he?
8:20
Yeah, no, Ben Roy. Understand.
8:22
What are you talking about? In these places, yeah, just how
8:27
Anstuff just seems so sort of fragile and so young, which
8:30
isn't how he started off, because he starts off quite
8:32
confident and doing all these bollocks about Scringestone and
8:35
stuff. And, you know, now he's, yeah,
8:38
he's quite. He's quite.
8:39
I like to think they've done some high stakes jobs, you know,
8:42
back in their time. That's it.
8:43
And I kind of like the idea of that history that you're getting
8:47
and you're sort of like, OK, so they've done other things.
8:49
There's they this isn't their first rodeo.
8:51
In fact, it's meant to be their last.
8:53
They've done Garen in Big Finish.
8:54
Maybe there's a boxer in there or two, but Garen and unstaffed
8:58
adventures, I mean, they did Tales of New New York.
9:01
They'll do anything. I was going to say, I mean, they
9:03
did that Drax 1, didn't they? That was, that was.
9:07
Hilarious. Do you remember the twist in
9:09
that? He was every fucking.
9:10
Person in the room I like, I liked a certain point when you
9:15
realise that that's what it was going to be.
9:16
You're like, oh, it's everyone, isn't it?
9:19
Yeah. And you just think not, surely
9:20
not even the people being introduced.
9:21
Yeah, that's another. Track.
9:23
Yeah, then see everyone else. The doctor's reaction.
9:25
To it, I'm like, what? What you're doing, it's insanely
9:29
dangerous. Oh, then you came along and told
9:32
me I was. Right.
9:33
That is so touching when he's like, I almost believed it
9:36
myself, but he's. Saying that alone is worth a
9:40
life. Oh, what a darling.
9:45
Oh, Binrod, don't go. Yeah, it's like, no, no.
9:50
Gosh, this is good stuff. And it's this, it's this
9:53
horrible, like the, it's not this, this tragedy that he's
9:57
like, take this. And that's what gets him killed.
10:01
Goes here, take this. He hasn't got a clue what it is.
10:04
Thanks. He goes.
10:08
Oh, come on. Where's the Seeker?
10:10
She's been away too long now. Oh, she's coming all right.
10:15
But even that, the way that's shot with the Doctor in the
10:18
foreground, that that's really nice as well, just to give a
10:20
sense of deeper space behind. Oh, this?
10:23
That's not very polite, is it? Shot Deeply discourteous.
10:26
You know, I'd say insulting. This is brutal.
10:29
I mean just. Shoots the car.
10:33
Yeah. I mean, I've been thinking
10:35
about, you know, random and summary execution of hamster
10:38
guests in order to keep them entertaining.
10:41
Everybody else might perk up a bit, you know, What do you
10:44
think? Do it on one of the strictly.
10:46
That would be fantastic. Just murder somebody.
10:49
Yeah. All right.
10:50
I can think of it. I've got a small list.
10:51
Actually, halfway. You're not on the list.
10:53
Don't worry, you're perfectly safe.
10:55
Not yet, not yet, but even this. You know we're talking about you
10:58
all right? Prentice Hancock being like
11:01
you're not where are you from? Like what are you?
11:03
Is is just really quite good as well.
11:05
I think he gives a really nice. Well, he wouldn't have seen a
11:08
laser before, would he? No, no, no, no.
11:10
And that's it. He's actually kind of horrified.
11:13
And it was just a man's been killed just to stir them up a
11:17
bit and get the seeker there quicker.
11:19
I know how to get the best from natives.
11:21
And a nice shot of the guard dead on the floor there.
11:24
And but then look at this, look at this, you've got the docs are
11:25
looking out the window that then cuts to a high angle shot of
11:29
them picking up the body. That's really nice.
11:31
It's. Almost a shame they couldn't
11:33
have framed the camera with the window it.
11:35
Is it is but, but he's trying. He's on.
11:37
Points for hypocrisy. Of the space, yeah.
11:39
Very. I think it's quite a lush
11:41
production given it's just a a number, a small number of
11:44
locations. Yeah, Yeah, I believe the world.
11:48
And I think, again, there's been money with, yeah, I think
11:51
they've been lucky with things that they found in the store
11:53
cupboard. They should reuse costumes,
11:55
reused flats or whatever. They've got all those candles
11:58
that looks great. Don't.
11:59
You love it when she shoves her feathers over canines nose.
12:03
Quiet. You're a very irritating
12:05
computer. But you did not ask, Mistress.
12:08
He's so funny. And John Leeson's time is great.
12:11
Like, it's really, really nice. I love canine in this.
12:14
Scene does Nico seek mistress and she goes oh seek what does
12:19
that mean? Oh no, I mean this now I would
12:22
have found a way around this with her going oh the tracer.
12:25
How could I have been such a fool?
12:27
You know, I don't think people genuinely have conversations
12:31
like this with. Them no.
12:32
And again, this is where I think sing wise, I don't, I don't
12:36
think Mary Tam's great in these scenes, but it doesn't matter
12:40
because she looks great and she's that's what she needs to
12:43
be doing at this point. Yeah, see that was odd because
12:47
he did that in a a shot of the she wasn't in shot, but canine
12:52
was with the the clothes going over his nose and then it cuts
12:56
to A2 shot of them together. OK, I would have just had the
12:59
whole thing as the two shot. Yeah.
13:01
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm trying to tell a
13:03
director who's long dead. George, come on.
13:07
Can we someone in with a ouija board please and just give him
13:10
some advice? I.
13:12
Bet the seeker could do that too.
13:13
I could find the dead as well. Ah, now the Doctor's the guard.
13:16
So we're doing a sort of sleight of hand here already, yeah.
13:20
And that and I think that again is really fun and it fits in
13:23
with that sort of caper thing. And again, going to, I knew they
13:27
said prisoner of Zender, no Android Zatara, but going to
13:30
that thing of the mistaken identities and things like that,
13:32
it's all it's all great fun and it's all very stagey, very
13:35
theatrical, but in a good way. That is a delboy line if ever I
13:39
if I ate standing at your feet, son, this instrument must be
13:42
Japanese. Japanese.
13:45
It's a jiffy detector. Is that the Jingle of grass?
13:48
Gold? I can hear God.
13:50
Thanks. Oh, Garen, we love you.
13:54
He's. Just he's so magnificent.
13:57
Actually, did you hear the big finish where they brought Garen
13:59
back? No, I didn't.
14:02
It's the best of it's a terrible story, but the acts of playing
14:06
Garen has clearly studied Ian Compass.
14:08
OK, that's nice. Yeah, I saw the cover of it.
14:12
Martin, I see death standing between us.
14:17
You're wrong. Which death standing behind you
14:20
if you don't get on with it? Horrible to the Seeker.
14:23
She's just been brought in to do her job.
14:24
She's just seeks. That's what she does.
14:26
She used, she woke up, she knew they were going to be rude to
14:29
her. She sees it all.
14:30
Yeah. That's.
14:32
True, I knew I was going to end up with you pricks today
14:33
because. That's more tragic, isn't it?
14:35
It's like she does see it. She's just she.
14:37
She knows. Did she know she was going to
14:40
die? I.
14:40
Don't know because she there is a moment where she looks like
14:44
she thinks she's going to get out of it and and then then he's
14:48
like, no, he shoots her in the face.
14:50
Can I ask you, Martin, have you ever rubbed a bone and seen the
14:53
future? Oh, I'll.
14:59
Just I'll never I'll. Never.
15:03
That's probably the best possible response, Nigel.
15:09
It looks like Garen's got a boner right now, but that's
15:12
Tracer it is, and Jesus Christ. The tracer is that we haven't
15:16
even talked about the the mechanics of the key to type.
15:18
The the tracer is a great prop. The key to time is a great prop.
15:23
I would like a key to time. I know someone who's got 1, you
15:26
know? Yeah, it doesn't.
15:28
Let me ever touch his key to time.
15:30
Oh no, he's very protective of it.
15:32
Don't even get to touch his tracer.
15:34
No matter how charming I am. So yeah, he's got a tracer as
15:37
well. I know he brandishes it, but he
15:40
won't let me touch. It but I reckon you could
15:41
probably 3D print it if you knew how to do that, which I have
15:44
absolutely no idea how to do that, but I don't know someone
15:47
who could. Anyone could know listening?
15:49
Anyone's listening? Somebody 33D print me the key to
15:52
time. Can you print me Binrod the
15:55
Heretic as well, please? Oh, it's just the bit where he
16:00
gives his life. Do you know what his dying line
16:04
is? He goes right.
16:05
I was right on stuff. But that's the he's like he's
16:09
because he's like, no to bring him along.
16:13
That's right. He tries to warn him.
16:15
He tries to. Warn him.
16:16
Yeah. It upsets me a bit that the
16:19
doctor is there and that the doctor can't save him.
16:22
I know that he's he's doing other things, but I'm a bit
16:24
like, oh, come on. Tom's a bit of a bastard if you
16:29
watch his run. To be to be fair, yeah, yeah,
16:32
yeah. Oh, I love this packet was shot.
16:34
We'll blow the catacombs up and then no one's coming out and.
16:37
And it's and again, it's it's like a great reaction because
16:40
he's like, these people are scary.
16:41
I don't you know, we've got to do something to stop them.
16:44
Let's just bury them. That's, you know, they won't
16:46
over. Here we go.
16:47
Go on. Birds.
16:50
The birds. The birds are alive.
16:54
Oh Bam Rd. No.
16:57
And it's just, it's so cold. This is like shame now.
16:59
Like. Yeah, I mean, Unstop being so
17:05
moved by his death and then Garron's joke, I mean, this is a
17:08
tough line to crack, the the drama and the comedy, but he
17:12
gets it perfect. And then Unstop gets shot and
17:20
you think for a second, my God, he been killed.
17:22
Honestly, because it feels like at that point that anyone could
17:24
just get killed off. We've been told that we all but
17:27
one doom to like we know everyone's going to die, but she
17:33
meant all but one in that party. Of that gang of people, Yeah,
17:38
yeah. Of which is what, Just the guard
17:42
captain? Just the.
17:46
Yeah. How many guards are there?
17:47
Is it just the captain? Yeah, the same old guard.
17:49
And then it's the doctor. Yeah.
17:51
I like, I like Garen being sort of standoffish when he thinks
17:56
he's about to die, though. He's just kind of like, no,
17:58
like. He's sort of.
18:00
The jokes are dropped. He's quite vicious here, isn't?
18:03
He. He is.
18:04
He is. You know you're doomed, he's
18:06
saying. Basically.
18:08
And you'll no longer be a nobleman of the ceramic empire.
18:10
That's that's that's cutting. Like he knows that that's going
18:13
to hurt him. You'll just be a common criminal
18:15
like us. He goes, oh, I'll stop or
18:18
something. I was going to make a touching
18:20
speech, but my throat is too. Dry.
18:23
Too dry. Cute shrimp and slow Romana's
18:28
like, you know, I think we're being kept out of the action
18:30
here. These bit I can say of this
18:33
episode, these are the bits that just are the most flat with
18:36
Romana and K9 because they just, it does just feel like they've
18:39
got too many characters to do stuff with.
18:41
Yeah, like she needs to be paired up with someone that
18:44
isn't K9. Here one of the guest
18:45
characters. Exactly.
18:46
That's it, yeah. Yeah, so maybe that's the one
18:49
weakness series they haven't quite.
18:51
You're right figured out what to do with her.
18:54
The Doctor gets plenty to do in. This story he does and and it's
18:57
never, you know, it's just something, I don't think it's
18:59
ever a problem again. Is it because that Ramana always
19:01
gets someone in this season to chat to?
19:03
Now that shows you the difference between TV now and TV
19:06
then. You would never sit and watch an
19:09
entire story burnout nowadays, would you?
19:13
Oh my God, there's stone falling everywhere.
19:18
Dust. It's so slightly more dynamic
19:21
than the image of the Fendall roof collapsing.
19:25
She likes lying. My guts are flat.
19:29
That's a really, I remember being really quite horrified
19:32
when I was young and watched this for the first time because
19:35
it's so nasty and sort of visceral.
19:38
It's literally visceral. But yes, it's.
19:41
Here we go, too late, he is dead.
19:45
Pops her bones down. But I do this scene now.
19:49
It's quite touching. When he closes his eyes, he
19:52
kisses his face. It genuinely is he.
19:55
Has respect for him. Yeah.
19:59
I mean, it is still very operatic, but I shall have
20:02
Andrew Shallack, you know. But he's he's the one person who
20:06
stood by him. And so his obviously his natural
20:11
response is to blow up the entire planet in revenge.
20:18
Yeah. You don't often see men kissing
20:19
in classic Who You Know. No, that's true.
20:22
But I say it's interesting that he also that he kisses the
20:25
doctor as well. Oh, he does.
20:27
Yeah, or, or at least he sort of yeah, he gives him like the.
20:30
Now we know why he's got an army.
20:34
He'd have done pretty well in the Roman times, wouldn't he,
20:39
Gavron? Such lousy shots caught me in
20:42
the foot. Oh dear, Oh dear.
20:46
Oh, I'm this bit. Alive.
20:48
The the the canine blasts away the war.
20:51
He goes, Oh my dear, you dropped this.
20:55
It's just, Oh yeah, into into your hand.
20:58
That's a great response. But it's just this bit when she
21:00
goes and pushes the rock, it's like, why have you done it's?
21:06
No good, it won't budget. Give it some welly like Mary.
21:11
Come on. Oh, so great.
21:15
So all we've got to do now is Polish off the graph and that's
21:18
it, because there's no sort of planet emergency or anything, is
21:21
there? It's just these characters.
21:23
Exactly. It's very, it's character drama.
21:26
It's very small scale, but I like that.
21:29
Whereas if this had been if this had been back in the day, we
21:34
would have had the the last episode would have been the
21:38
graph taking off to destroy the planet from orbit and the Doctor
21:42
getting in the TARDIS to loop the loop around him and produce.
21:45
There'll be some terrible sci-fi ending to it.
21:49
Martin, that prophecy you made, what?
21:51
Was it? Oh, but one doom to die, that's
21:58
written. Then die.
22:00
Now it's. Horrible.
22:02
I mean she just gets shot in the face.
22:05
It's horrible. It's also kind of funny, but.
22:09
It is, but it's brutal. It's it's kind of callous.
22:13
It's that sort of dark irony, isn't it?
22:18
OK, so possibly you're responsible for this, for your
22:20
prophecy. Let me shoot you in the face, he
22:22
says. Well, he's like, you're the last
22:24
of my Levivian Invincibles. But then he's like, were you
22:27
with us on Scar? And he's like, no.
22:29
And he's like, you don't share the memory, but he's getting
22:32
lost in his memories of battle. It's just how he goes running
22:38
off, going forward, forward. And you know, he's got that Bob.
22:41
The doctor's going 5-6. Yeah, it's so funny.
22:46
And then he goes, oh, he blows. And the doctor, the doctor sort
22:53
of slumps, but it is it, it's brutal.
22:56
It's sort of, it's funny, but it's, but it's dark.
22:59
It's it's lovely and. Kind of moving.
23:01
It's a weird mix, but it was. It is because I genuinely do
23:04
feel bad for the graph, like I really do, even though he's such
23:07
a horrible twat. But you're sort of like, you
23:10
know, he's, he's lost a lot. Yeah, we talked about
23:13
Shakespeare earlier, hoist by his own.
23:15
Petard, absolutely. But yeah, he does.
23:18
OK. He's not kissing him quite as
23:19
much, but he's doing the little the the cheek, cheek in cheek
23:22
thing. That's our last shot of the
23:23
seeker. Look face down on the floor,
23:26
dead. Oh.
23:29
That's one of us. Oh, and like you said, all the
23:32
battle. Noises.
23:33
Now that that's really quite lovely.
23:35
I think the the the noise there. God, here we go.
23:39
To me, to me. George onwards.
23:43
Bless him. He's fucking crazy.
23:47
Bless him. But even that, again, it's like
23:49
the camera's pulling back slightly so you get a sense of
23:51
distance. He's walked quite a long way.
23:53
It's. Just how the explosion just is
23:55
off screen. He doesn't even get a deaf on
24:00
screen. Oh, the indignity of it.
24:04
Well, yeah, it's different about him.
24:05
Dismembered it's bleeding corpse.
24:08
I thought you would have known that, Garen.
24:10
A slight of hand, of course. I still don't understand Doctor
24:15
The. Fact, they come in from off
24:17
screen as well, just as if they have been walking.
24:20
It's all just a really nice way of of suggesting more space.
24:24
Oh, and all of this with the hug.
24:26
Oh, goodbye, Doctor, Goodbye. Karen.
24:29
Hi, Karen. I swapped it for a bit of stone.
24:33
Look. You swapped his back again.
24:37
Swapped. His back again.
24:38
Oh, unstaffed. I mean, it's basically a cartoon
24:42
at that point, isn't it? But I love a cartoon, so I'm not
24:45
complaining. Yeah, I was going to say it's
24:47
it's perfect. It's a really nice, touching
24:49
sort of end to the story. They, they, they get away.
24:54
Like, we love these characters and they they survive and that's
24:56
really nice. I like as well how the stakes
24:59
change from story to story this season.
25:01
Like like we said, this is a very small style character
25:04
piece. The next story it's about
25:05
hollowing out planets across the universe.
25:08
Massive. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
25:11
Stones of Blood is, you know, set on Earth, but also in
25:13
hyperspace. And it's and and it's sort of
25:16
talking about history. There's big scales, but then the
25:18
Andrews Atari is a very small scale historical piece.
25:22
It's yeah, it's a, it's a nice mix.
25:26
And, and just just visually as well, I think, OK, this and
25:29
Android Zatari, you can argue that there's a certain
25:31
similarity, but only in the sort of that it's a costume drama
25:36
sort of thing. But you've got, you know, Kroll
25:37
that looks like no other Doctor Who story, which is brilliant.
25:41
OK, I'm again, the fact is a little bit drab.
25:45
That's. They may have run out of.
25:46
Money they may they run out of they run out of their money.
25:49
Rico said Yeah, a graph ship filled with 18 years worth of
25:53
loot, which is mirrored by glitz in the mysterious planet where
25:59
it says, you know, black light. Oh, is that light converted?
26:01
Yeah. A tasty little Kitty for the
26:04
next venture. Oh.
26:06
I'd stop. Nobody you can trust these days.
26:11
I would have ended it there. Fuck the time.
26:14
No end it on a joke. Oh I'm so sad that's the last of
26:19
Garen and Unstop, but I'm pleased in the massacre that
26:23
they both survived. This is the thing I think it
26:26
genuinely is. And that again is the difference
26:28
to again, as even a season ago, well, you know, horror of fame,
26:31
rock, everybody dies. Imagine we could have had a
26:35
season 17 story where Garen and Unstop team up with drugs.
26:42
Fabulous. Oh God with Big Finish recasts,
26:45
just give it a few months. Jason Thompson's listening to
26:49
this going. Yeah, I've got a segment like
26:51
that, but. It's I do think it is a lovely
26:57
design. Well, the fact that it just
26:58
becomes that nice cube as well. Yeah, really.
27:01
Nice. Maybe this goes on a bit too
27:04
long though as well. I think this also is it's the
27:07
same in Stones of Blood, like they do go on a bit the these
27:13
end segment, the end, yeah, end segments.
27:15
Only five more to go. All right, George, now you do
27:19
such great direction. It's always at the end of your
27:22
episodes, you know? You just don't know where to cut
27:25
it. That's very true.
27:28
That's very true. What a beauty that story is
27:31
fucking. Yeah, what?
27:32
What? That's just such just a again, I
27:35
feel so happy. Obviously, I mean, I only
27:37
watched it a couple of days ago to to prepare and watched it
27:40
again and I could watch it again, but I don't care.
27:45
And I there are certain stories in William's time that I can
27:47
just watch over and. Over.
27:48
Yeah, absolutely. And there are certain stories
27:51
just in Doctor Who in general, there are some stories that I
27:53
can't watch over and over again and I can't even watch once even
27:58
there are some I can't watch once.
28:00
Yeah, the Sensorites, but. Dominators, Oh God, watch out
28:05
the wrath of Fraser Gregory. But the sensorise is genuine.
28:11
I think it's the only Doctor Who story I've not.
28:12
I've never finished. I actually haven't seen the end
28:15
of it because I was like, I don't think I can give more of
28:18
my life to this. So one day it's always nice to
28:20
have a bit extra heart or somewhere.
28:22
But yeah, but remote Operation, I could watch it over and over
28:26
again. I won't get bored of it.
28:29
The performances are lovely, the writing's lovely.
28:32
It looks gorgeous. I mean.
28:33
Could you not hear? We knew every line.
28:36
We know the stuff inside. And I don't have, it's true that
28:40
I mean, because I try not to just be pure love fest.
28:43
But apart from, like I say, a couple of scenes which could
28:46
have been they could have done a retake maybe and Roman are not
28:51
really having that much to do. There's not really any
28:54
criticisms that I have for it. It's like my into Doctor Who is
28:59
characters. I always say it again and again
29:01
and again. And if I like hanging with those
29:02
characters, fuck the plot. I mean, it's got a good plot,
29:05
but I really care if I'm hanging the characters that I love.
29:09
Happy days. Yeah, that's it.
29:10
But it does really have both, because the plot is great too.
29:14
Like, it's got a really fun, quite tight plot, yeah, and just
29:19
just filled with lovely characters that we just want to
29:21
spend more time with. More japes Doctor Who.
29:25
Honestly, more japes. I mean, it's there's I think the
29:29
the episode of especially with new Who where in some ways
29:33
arguably there's more humour because you do have more sort of
29:36
jokes in the episodes. But you've got a lot of music
29:41
telling you it's a joke. As well, you've got music
29:43
telling you it's a joke, but that I just.
29:46
But I think that the episode of new who that I've seen the most
29:50
I've watched the most it's Unicorn and the wasp because I
29:53
just like silliness. It's the bit where Christopher
29:56
Benjamin has a flashback within a flashback and the doctor's
29:58
like no, no, no, but that is just so silly.
30:01
But that is great. I want.
30:03
That's the sort of thing that I want more of, like not.
30:06
Towering Inferno. I'm nervous.
30:10
But that's it. And and, but are there any other
30:13
outright comedies? I don't think there are.
30:15
Are there? Do you know I can't?
30:19
Oh, I guess probably the Gareth Roberts oh, partners in Oh
30:23
actually, yeah. And talking, Yeah.
30:25
And in terms of having a bit of a sort of caper them both
30:30
investigating, but yeah, OK. No, no, yeah.
30:34
You're right where Miss Foster realises she's got to fall to
30:37
the ground and gives that sort of wily coyote look down.
30:40
Makes me laugh every time. I just, and the bit, just the
30:43
bit with Donna and the Doctor fighting each other through the
30:45
windows is really, really fucking funny.
30:48
It's me. I just think Catherine Tate just
30:51
brought a level of humour to that.
30:53
This, this is true. I think that definitely really,
30:55
really helped. But it's like I'm trying to
30:57
think of them because the the 5th Doctor, Amy and Rory should
31:03
have had a knock about comedy. And I'm I'm trying to well.
31:09
I think they tried to do it in Vampire of Venice, but I don't
31:12
think any of their comedy. Works in that just doesn't just
31:14
doesn't work. No.
31:15
Oh yeah, to be fair, yeah, you're right.
31:16
I think that is an attempt. And then there's the logger.
31:21
That's more comedy. But they write out Amy and.
31:23
Rory. But they write out Amy and Rory.
31:25
That's the thing, yeah. It's like they're not really
31:27
using. They're doing something a bit
31:28
different, and that's sort of cheating, really.
31:30
Like you've got to be using all the things that you've got to
31:32
play with. Even in deadly serious stories,
31:36
Donna Noble makes me laugh. Do you remember that line?
31:39
But I've been dieting. But that's a very serious
31:45
episode. Yeah, there are, that's true.
31:48
But I think I just feel like it's a wasted opportunity when
31:52
you've got, and I'm sure I bet there'd be people that would
31:55
complain, but you know, because there are people that don't like
31:58
Graham Williams era, there are people that can't stand season
32:01
17 particularly. They don't like the Gunfighters
32:05
because it's a comedy. They don't like the gunfighters
32:07
but my God. But also it's the most like.
32:11
You know what I call them the Jeremy Bentham, the.
32:16
But I mean, the gunfighters particularly is a is a an
32:20
example that I never quite understand because even if you
32:22
don't think it's outright funny, it's massively clever.
32:26
So it's like, I don't even if you, I feel like.
32:30
But he's also really, really. Funny puts his hand on the
32:32
corpse. But no, I think it's hilarious.
32:36
I think the gunfight is absolutely brilliant.
32:38
But. I don't.
32:39
I don't touch alcohol, but just a small glass of milk and I'd be
32:42
too delighted. Oh great.
32:44
Stuff but just but just the way they use the ballad is just
32:48
incredible. Incredible.
32:50
It's nicely shot. It's yeah, I do think it's
32:53
genuinely funny as well, but I don't get I don't see how you
32:56
could dislike the gun or how you could just outright dislike the
32:59
gun fighters. I really don't understand.
33:01
But but yeah, there are people that don't like the the higher
33:03
amount of comedy. But I think like if you've got a
33:05
season of 13, OK, we don't have seasons of 13 episodes anymore,
33:08
but if you have. I was a bit shocked that they
33:10
didn't. I thought they were going to do
33:13
more comedy in the shooting era and they just.
33:17
I think. I think Space Babies and Rogue
33:20
were supposed to be comedies and the director didn't get the
33:24
note. Though no, no, but even like
33:26
there were ones where. Oh God, what's the one?
33:30
What was it called? Luxe.
33:32
With the cartoon I thought there'd be more funny bits but
33:37
the weren't. Well, there was the bit with the
33:39
fans, but don't. Get me started on those fucking
33:43
fans or no? But I, I don't yeah, for me, it
33:46
just, I was like there, there should just be jokes in this,
33:48
but there's not really and I'm not really getting anything from
33:52
yeah, I don't know. It's it's a shame and I I wish
33:54
that somebody would just remember that you can, because
33:57
even in if you think about Big Finish, like we said, like, you
34:00
know, obviously there's one doctor that's a different
34:03
example. It's great.
34:04
But it's like, I'm not expecting that, but things like the church
34:08
and the crown, which is just a really fun romp.
34:12
The one Doctor, but the one Doctor.
34:15
But yeah, I was going to say the one doctor is maybe a bit of an
34:17
extreme. I wouldn't expect them to.
34:18
Maybe devout. On.
34:20
Screen. I mean, it would be great if
34:22
they just the IKEA robots. I think it would be.
34:28
Oh, it'd be brilliant. If it was it Colin Baker talks,
34:30
here we go, another voyage around the English language.
34:32
It's just great. He's always comparing me to an
34:36
elephant. Oh.
34:38
God, so great. Oh armour, bushes and bushes.
34:41
Never give up. It's so funny.
34:45
Or was it You could drop the goody choose two shoes.
34:48
Act Mel. What act?
34:49
She goes. But it could be, to be fair,
34:52
that could be a Christmas special like that, something
34:54
where it doesn't matter. There's no real weight about it
34:57
being Is there even a comedy? No, really, no.
35:02
I think Doctor Widow and the Wardrobe.
35:04
The opening scenes are supposed to be funny, but they are
35:06
interminable. God.
35:08
Yeah, no, just think they forgot out to do comedy.
35:11
Yeah. Yeah, no, they really did.
35:13
That's the thing. And I think, yeah, I just
35:15
definitely think there's a place for it.
35:17
And I wish they would. At some point, maybe the war
35:21
between the land and the sea will be.
35:23
It doesn't look like it's going to be a laugh a minute.
35:25
It doesn't. But imagine if it were.
35:27
That would be great. It's a surprise.
35:29
It's all, it's all a comedy. I mean, Del and the bannermen is
35:34
it has very funny moments in it. I know you do you hate Darren?
35:37
The bannermen? OK, no.
35:40
Joe, you know when you asked, you asked me to think about
35:42
where we're going to go. Next.
35:43
Oh boy, she's due to change. The singing time is near.
35:49
No. Oh well.
35:52
How joyful. I mean, I'll never say no to
35:54
Delta and the Bannerman, even though I've done it twice
35:56
already. I don't care.
35:57
I don't care. Well, if you don't mind that
36:01
was. Here's to the future it knows.
36:03
That's exactly what I was thinking.
36:05
Now listen. But very quickly, yes, we're
36:08
going to have to do our three fabulous things to recommend the
36:11
Rebus operating is not going to be hard, to be honest.
36:15
Would you care to go first? OK, shall I go first?
36:17
OK, so I am going to go with June Hudson for the costume
36:23
design because I think it's great.
36:26
I don't know how much of this was, yeah, stuff that they found
36:28
in the cupboards, but I think the look of Rebus, it's great.
36:33
There's a kind of, there's a sort of coherent look.
36:35
I like the design of the Imperial guards.
36:40
I think Romana's dress is great. The jacket made the coat, maybe
36:43
not so much the black chicken, but I think she looks great.
36:47
I think genuine. I think Cyril Lucombe's outfit
36:49
is bloody incredible as the Guardian.
36:52
So I think it's really, really nicely costumed design story.
36:57
Very. I mean, you're going to kick me
36:59
for nicking this one, but I do think Ian Cuthbertson gives.
37:02
One of the most. Grandiose Strap this off.
37:06
Best comedy turns that you're ever going to see in Doctor Who
37:09
like that. This is a great cast across the
37:12
board, but Cuthbertson shines the most to the point where in
37:18
Episode 3, man like Tom Baker is just not even trying because he
37:21
knows he knows he can't be as eccentric and mad as Ian
37:25
Cuthbertson. Every lion out of his mouth is a
37:28
gem. If the lives weren't great, they
37:32
would be a gem because it's Ian Cutherson.
37:34
But they're great lines as well. I mean, he came after me with a
37:38
machine gun. It's just as a liar.
37:41
So yeah, Ian Cutherson. Yeah, we're doubly blessed.
37:44
So when you get the time, you need to watch the Stone Tape
37:47
free in Cuthbertson and watch Casting the Reins free in
37:50
Cuthbertson as well. So it's on the list.
37:53
OK. So you you took my Ian
37:54
Cuthbertson. So I'm going to go Mary Tam as
37:57
it's her first story. As I said before, I think she's
38:01
the closest we get to a like a film star companion.
38:05
I think she looks incredible. She has such screen presence.
38:09
It's again, not to say that she's my favorite companion, not
38:11
to say that she's the best actress, but I think she has a
38:14
presence that we is unparalleled in terms of of the companion.
38:19
And I also just think that Romana is a great companion.
38:23
I think the idea of having a time Lady works really well.
38:26
I think it was a really nice idea having someone who's kind
38:30
of the doctor's equal. But because she's young and
38:32
she's just starting out, she's maybe not quite as competent,
38:35
although she becomes very, very competent.
38:37
And in Pirate Planet, in Android Satara, she's so good at kind of
38:45
leading her part of the of the action or, you know, leading
38:48
like most of the story in Android Satara.
38:51
So I think she's, yeah, I think she's quite wonderful.
38:53
And this is a great introductory story for her.
38:55
I'm perfectly convinced you know that I'm heterosexual.
38:58
Every time she's on the screen. She's just beguiling to look at,
39:02
isn't she? But she is she draws the attack.
39:04
I mean, and I say even like I say, the only, I think the only
39:07
film or big film she was in. She's in the Odessa file, which
39:09
is a pretty boring film. But when she's on screen, she
39:14
draws your attention as a rubbish character, but she
39:17
doesn't get anything to do. But she's, you know, she's got a
39:20
magnetic presence. I want to throw some light on
39:24
Dudley Simpson, who I think gets a rap for his latter day Tom
39:29
Baker scores. And I think this is a hugely
39:32
atmospheric. I mean, I wasn't lying.
39:34
He has been given an organ at some point, or at least he's
39:37
doing some form of electronic organ.
39:39
But it gives this the sense of history that it's going for, but
39:44
also a very grandiose sort of sound to it.
39:49
All the rituals with turning on the lights in the front in the
39:52
dual room. And yeah, just a beautiful bit
39:56
of music. And I think it's one of his more
39:58
memorable scores. So yeah, Dudley Simpson A. 100%
40:02
agree, I I feel like Dudley Simpson gets really unfairly
40:05
maligned but I think the majority of his stuff I I I
40:10
really do like. It's always competent, often
40:14
exceptional. Exactly.
40:15
That's it. Yeah, that's exactly right.
40:17
OK, so I'm going to go for one that's slightly different,
40:22
although I have mentioned it already.
40:23
I'm going to go for the Guardians because this is where
40:26
they come in. Admittedly, we've only seen the
40:29
White Guardian, but I think it's a concept that could be really
40:34
kind of hokey and terrible. But I think because of the
40:39
actors they get and the writing for them, most of the time it
40:45
really works. I think Sarah Lucum is a very,
40:49
very good actor. I think Valentine Dial is really
40:52
good, although maybe we get a bit too much Valentine Dial in
40:56
the The Black Guardian trilogy. But I I really think that the
41:01
scene where they actually come together in enlightenment, I
41:04
think he's absolutely magnificent.
41:06
Even though they both got fucking birds on their heads,
41:08
which is a stupid because both of them have such a great look
41:11
in this season and then they decide not to do that and I've
41:15
never really understood why should.
41:16
Have just come along in his suit, shouldn't.
41:19
Yeah, just very yeah. Oh God, being suit, being in his
41:21
chair that the white guardian here.
41:24
It is so fucking cool that Wicker chair.
41:27
I'd love to have a chair like that.
41:29
He looks great. He sounds great.
41:31
He's the dialogue he's given is great.
41:34
It's sort of he sells all of the lines that could again be a bit
41:37
ridiculous, but because he's got this gravitas, he's got this
41:40
presence. He sells it and it works and I
41:42
just think it's a really nice different thing to do and this
41:46
idea of this season being one story that is a quest that he
41:50
sent on the quest by a magician. I do think there's an argument
41:55
that it's a shame that it doesn't turn out in that way.
41:58
They kind of weirdly fake out in The Armageddon Factor.
42:01
But if it turned out he'd been sent on the quest by the Black
42:03
Guardian, that might have been a really nice twist.
42:07
If he was actually just sort of like, no, no, like you've been
42:10
working for the bad guy and then he gets to break the key, that
42:13
might actually work a little bit better than than it does.
42:15
But never confirm it did I? So we're.
42:17
Like, to be fair, No, that's true.
42:19
That's true. But I think it's a shame.
42:22
Cyril Lakham. Yeah, if they got Cyril Lakham
42:24
to come back and be like, give me the key and then turn into
42:26
the black, that that would have been lovely.
42:28
But Even so, I think the Guardians are a concept which it
42:32
was kind of brave to try, and I think it worked.
42:36
I think it worked really well. Giving the Doctor Graham
42:39
Williams said it. I'm going to give the doctor
42:41
some responsibility. He can't just be this happy go
42:44
lucky adventurer bouncing around the universe getting into
42:47
trouble. Unfortunately, there's a
42:49
conclusion they draw at the end of this season is it's much
42:51
better if it's just it's much better adventure, bouncing
42:54
around the universe, getting in trouble.
42:55
But the other thing is I do like and we've had this conversation
42:58
a bit as well, but there's something one of the reasons why
43:01
I I'm a fan of the Time Lords, but it doesn't have to just be
43:06
the time. I like people that can put the
43:08
Doctor in his place. There's a bit in the new series
43:12
where the is it a healer that from the sisterhood of Khan, she
43:17
shouts and she calls him boy. She's like come back boy.
43:20
And I was like. About a scene from Hell Bent.
43:23
I'm going to say it's probably hell bent.
43:25
Yeah, boy. OK, go on which?
43:26
It's rare that I would say something nice about Hell Bent,
43:28
but but I like it when people treat the doctor like you see
43:33
that he's not the top of the food chain.
43:36
So the guardians do that. Barusa does that like I just
43:39
like the. Tam does that.
43:41
Every Tam does that, but I like people who can put the Doctor in
43:44
his place. And so I sort of appreciate that
43:47
that the Guardians can do that, that he's anyone who's going to
43:50
be anyone who's equal Sir, anyone who's going to be sort of
43:53
like putting him down a little bit.
43:55
I like the existence of those people in the universe.
43:57
I do wonder if they do. They've realized that Tom
44:00
Baker's got too big for his boots and so they have started
44:03
bringing in Amelia Rumford cuts him down.
44:05
And do try and keep a grip on yourself, you know, people,
44:09
older people coming in and telling him off all the time or
44:12
beautiful people. Well, with as much presence as
44:16
him, isn't it? That's what you want.
44:18
You've put me in a very unfortunate position of having
44:20
to break the rules. And for my last thing, because
44:22
you haven't chosen either of them, I'm going to go a two way
44:25
tie with, obviously, Binro the Heretic, one of the best ever.
44:32
I mean, if he'd just been that one scene, he would've been one
44:35
of the best ever guest characters.
44:36
But boy, what a likeable performance.
44:39
What great writing. And of course, the Seeker, who
44:44
we started and probably will end this episode shrieking like
44:49
bloody lunatics doing an impression of, I mean, well,
44:52
I've can't bear the Seeker. I don't know what's wrong with
44:55
the man, but. Also just be honest, it is funny
44:57
that re watching this in this context she's like she's only in
45:01
like 3 scenes, she doesn't really do anything.
45:05
She's so memorable. What a brilliant performance.
45:08
What brilliant like design? I don't know.
45:10
She's wonderful. Shrieking like a banshee be
45:13
waving her bones in the air. Wonderful.
45:16
Yeah. So just just very, very
45:18
memorable small characters that aren't really essential to the
45:23
plot, but just add so much depth and entertainment to the story.
45:28
And it's just a delight. This.
45:30
It's just it. Is it's so wonderful?
45:32
Yes. If it's more heaven to share it
45:34
with somebody like because like I just think when you watch
45:38
great Doctor Who together like this, it's just heaven.
45:41
It's just to be able to shout all the lines.
45:44
Just weird the weird impressions.
45:46
But honestly, sorry guys. Yeah, thanks for indulging.
45:48
Apology, sorry about that, but people that don't like this
45:51
story honestly a what's wrong? Fuck off the lawyer.
45:54
Seek seek help but also but also maybe just go and watch it again
45:59
and realise how wrong you are. Just suggesting.
46:02
Yeah, or listen to this and then go and watch it.
46:04
Listen to this, then go and watch it.
46:05
Then listen to this again. You don't like it, we'll come
46:07
round and beat you up, all right, until you do like it.
46:11
We get the seeking to tell us where you.
46:12
Live unless you publicly recant your beliefs, the gods will
46:16
destroy you. Oh.
46:18
God, Joe, we just became the villains.
46:20
I think we already knew this would be.
46:23
Fair. Yeah, it's been a long time
46:25
coming. Well, I mean, how do you fancy a
46:28
trip to Barry Island then? Well, exactly.
46:31
That's the thing. The doctor in canine, they
46:32
wanted to go on holiday. The Guardian came in and fucked
46:35
up their plan. So I think we should take that
46:36
holiday. Let's go to sunny Barry Island.
46:39
I think we could go to the Rock'n'roll year years Butlins
46:43
holiday camp, see some hideously ugly green babies being born.
46:51
And learn about the What's the importance of love?
46:55
And we might have a little dance, you know, there could be
46:57
a love triangle. If we're lucky, we could Rev a
47:01
few engines. And, you know, if we're lucky,
47:05
we'll get covered in a load of sticky stuff to the future
47:12
Martin I. Look forward to it.
47:16
All out in there.