Latest / The Data Shaman Podcast - Quant Mind, Shaman Soul / In Conversation with Elliot Awin - Executive Coach and Solo Atlantic Rower

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In Conversation with Elliot Awin - Executive Coach and Solo Atlantic Rower · The Data Shaman Podcast - Quant Mind, Shaman Soul

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I am Daniele Forti, a data sharan.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I am an executive coach.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And this podcast is where coaching, mentoring, corporate life, philosophy, psychology, and a bit of chaos all come together.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: In each episode, we dive into the question of the shape of our work, our leadership, and the way we show up to the world.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the stage and the CEO.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is part of the series Coaching Journeys Conversation from Cambridge, where I interview my classmates about the journey into coaching, what motivates them, and their leadership advice.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: I am sure you do not want to miss this one.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess the thing that brought me to the program in just go straight.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: In December 2023, I rode the Atlantic solo and unsupported.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Spent 44 days at sea.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: 44 days alone at sea makes you realize what's important.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'd really set off with three motivations to have an autonomous project away from a family business.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: I worked in a family business or worked in a family business for 15 years importing wine from all over the world, representing family-run wineries in the United Kingdom.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: The second was to raise funds and awareness for a cause.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have a pacemaker.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I joined forces with the British Heart Foundation, one of the biggest charities here in the UK, to raise awareness around the fact that lots of people get an ill health heart, an ill heart diagnosis, and then think that that is the end of all activity and they must not do things, they must stay at home.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: So the ability to um hopefully raise awareness around the fact that it things are still possible, living a life is still possible.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um Alright.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So as usual, uh like uh we can I can always scut, I can always uh if you say something, they just say, look, let me resay it.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, doesn't really matter.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's the the beauty of show business.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, I'll do a bit of an intro.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll probably need to do it like a couple of times because the first time never goes okay.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um then I will ask you the first question and then we'll start the conversation.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh welcome everyone to Coaching Journeys Conversations from Cambridge.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here with Elliot.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Elliot, welcome.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start with the first uh question, getting to know you.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Could you share a little bit about your background and what brought you to this program?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite I find that such a big question, and also to to say what is relevant, what's not relevant is uh always interesting.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I guess the thing that brought me to the program um in just go straight in in December 2023, I rode the Atlantic uh solo and unsupported, um, spent 44 days at sea uh from Lagomer in the Canary Islands to Antigua in the Caribbean.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that sort of took three years of preparation to which I was exposed to and really benefit benefited from performance coaching from two guys who run a performance coaching operation out of the RAF.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um and having 44 days alone at sea makes you realize what's important.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had really set off with three motivations to have an autonomous project away from a family business.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: I worked in a family business or worked in a family business for 15 years importing wine from all over the world, representing family-run wineries in the United Kingdom.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: The second was to raise funds and awareness for a cause.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: I have a pacemaker who had an ill health, ill heart health diagnosis in 2014.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I joined forces with the British Heart Foundation, one of the biggest charities here in the UK, um, to raise awareness around the fact that lots of people get an ill health heart, an ill heart health diagnosis, and then think that that's is the end of all activity and they must not do things, they must stay at home.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: So the ability to um hopefully raise awareness around the fact that it things are still possible, living a life is still possible.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I came home, realized, uh and the third was to uh to go on an adventure, which which which I at the time was the biggest motivation, really.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um but coming home, the thing that really touched me the most was hearing stories of people that had had an ill health, heart health diagnosis, and had found my story um comforting in the fact that they might be able to do so.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um so during this, I had a lot of time to think, became quite philosophical, started writing a book on identity, motivation, purpose, um started studying psychotherapy um or humanistic counselling um at the Gestaud Centre in London, and realized that potentially therapy wasn't the route that I wanted to go down.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot lots of talking, lots of um not so much a goal-oriented, and having worked in a business environment for 15 years, uh also having studied mechanical engineering at university, I realized that I really wanted to go into something that was more goal-focused, um, more business um oriented, and then found the Cambridge Course.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, this is a really long story, but found the Cambridge Course because they had a lean on gestaut, which is um pattern behaviors and being very much in the here and now, and there was a focus towards that kind of philosophy within their coaching program.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: So signed up and started in October.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's to be honest with you, you're probably one of the most fascinating stories uh in the group that we have.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, maybe no fascinating maybe is maybe feel awkward for you, but let's say Yeah.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: A little awkward, yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, different.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm I it's um it's I listen I listened to the entire works of Sherlock Holmes twice uh whilst uh audio booked whilst rowing on the Atl on the Atlantic.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And a and a word that uh Sir Arthur Conan Door uses a lot is uh singularity.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and I kept thinking about we are all singularities actually, and that but there is this notion in adventure culture that everyone must be a singularity, the first to do this, the fastest to do that.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that word that was part of um the the the uh Sherlock Holmes narrative, it really sort of stuck in my head.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, like it's interesting you say this is quite a unique story, but at the same time, everyone has a unique story, and it as you it does make me feel a little bit awkward because everyone has such a fascinating, rich story that potentially in just because mine is uh sounds extreme, doesn't make it any more extreme than anyone else's.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think so, you're right.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because each of us, again, bring our own uh sort of like difference, we are all live different lives, different things.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I guess my life would sound and look to you maybe singular in the same way that your life sound and look singular.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, yeah.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh and it's if you think of how many uh variables, if you had a hundred people in a room and you said if everyone, how many variables would you have to name before there was one person standing up?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: For example, I was so everyone sit down if you weren't born in January.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone now sit down if you have brown eyes.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: You'd only need five or six things that make the one person unique straight away.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so we um I think it's very easy to forget that when there's sort of a the social media culture of look who's doing this, look who's doing that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're all um you know, all living lives that are that are singular.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned something that uh I wanted to to delve a little deeper.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because you mentioned Gestalt, and uh just reminding me of an interaction with a coachy.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're basically It sounds like a coach is a person that observes, listens, and asks questions, but they don't really necessarily understand sometimes what we try to do, what are the things that we try to touch, the way that we ask a question, to just to lead or guide the conversation in a certain way.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh as you mentioned, gestalt, is there maybe a way that you can explain a bit uh how the principle, I guess, but also maybe with an example, how that would uh would work.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think one of the most fascinating observations of gestaut is are the Gloria tapes with Fritz Perls.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Is uh there's a there's a um I m must be in the six late sixties, maybe early seventies.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: Fritz Perls, who's the one of the one of the founders of Gestaut philosophy, is um is recorded giving a therapeutic session to this Lady Gloria who has filmed over three different and it can be quite abrupt.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um gestalt can be it's uh naming for here and now what is happening in this exact uh in the in the moment, and um without judgmental uh without judgment, observing.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Now I of course sometimes struggle with this zero judgment because the fact that you've chosen to observe this thing as opposed to that thing um is making a judgment within itself.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um but it's things like uh when often in a conversation someone might laugh whilst saying something that sounds painful.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so making the observation that says this sounds painful, but you're laughing.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's not um making any assumption, it's just saying that this is happening, the phenomenology of as in what is happening right here in the in the here and now, and observing uh things to help bring awareness to a client's uh well to help the client become a more aware of this dynamic that potentially then leads a thought pattern down a train of thought that allows them to reflect on why they might be laughing with this thing that is uncomfortable.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's very much a gestalt.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Also, very a thing that is very gestalt is the empty chair that is sort of founded in gestalt, where um client therapist coach might decide to uh, as it's one of the gestalt experiments, might decide to put a third chair in the room and allow the client to speak to a person, a theory, their younger self, their uh relationship with uh another inanimate object that sits in the chair.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then this then allows for more of this observation, allows to um potentially evoke feelings and physiological responses that happen within a client to help them observe that, bring their awareness now to what speaking to that person, that object, that theory, that their younger self, their older self may evoke at that point in time to bring it very much into the here and now rather than, oh, I had a conversation with so and so last week, or I'm dreading having this conversation with so-and-so next week.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: This empty chair brings it right into the here and now rather than the projection of what is going to happen that allows then that physiological response to happen, then to make the observation of where where comes to you.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: I feel a bit awkward having this conversation.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, but where where are you feeling this?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: So bringing awareness to the body, the um somatic response, and therefore again building awareness around uh around that conversation.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's interesting.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've not used it uh, but I have a couple of upcoming uh sessions that I'll definitely think about it because I I find it a very useful tool, um, especially for um apprehension around a future event or a com especially in the coaching industry where interpersonal relationships are the bread and butter for me.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um and the apprehension towards this conversation, or I had this conversation last week, it didn't go so well.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Let's try and redo this conversation to bring awareness of what happened, where did that make you feel?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like what what an emotion is it evoking right now to have that conversation again?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it rather than having the conversation with myself as a coach, or it it uh deflects the attention or the it removes the slight phenomenon removes slightly the phenomenology that exists between client and and coach and and allows the coach to observe whilst the coache is perhaps uh a little bit removed from the one-to-one, um and and can almost forget that the coach is there.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to maybe to go back a bit to your uh past uh this very powerful experience as a as an elite athlete, I guess, because I would I I would never be able to do it, and I don't think many others would not.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: What um what is the difference that a person like you would bring to executive coaching with that particular you know background experience and sort of like this very resilient and uh sport you know background?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big question.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think um you touched on it with resilience.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the for me it the definition of intr in of resilience is very interesting as well, because um they say, for example, they say that you cannot be brave if you are never scared.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: The de uh but I I mean this is a very so so bravery is the sort of a continuation of um being in the face of something that you fear.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's some something something around the definition of lies somewhere around there.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: So resilience is performance or ongoing uh activity in the face of discomfort.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um so if there is no discomfort, are you resilient and resilient?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: And therefore, is it a building of a tolerance to discomfort?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is that resilience, or is it uh sitting with discomfort and then being able to perform?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um very slightly different definition, but I will it's uh I did a spinning class this morning, and the spinning instructor said uh we are trying to hold ourselves in this fight and flight mode.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: So it we're anaerobically sprinting and we are holding ourselves in this fight or flight mode mode, but we're not going into a s a really all stress and we're not relaxed.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: So in our day-to-day life, when we're a when we we are put into this fight or flight response, we are able to keep calm, level-headed, control the well, I guess it's the the neuros the neuro response from the primitive section of our brains to the uh the knee jerk-jerk reaction, but this immediate response and to remain calm in that face.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for me, I bring a calmness to clients.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a very roundabout way of of getting to it.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I have seen some rather large there was experienced some rather rather large extreme stimulus.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And having sat through that for 44 days, as well as um some interpersonal relationships as well in my past, that is just um something that I think has built my base of discomfort to allow a calmness in a space and to be able to hold this um almost powerful warmth for clients, and that I think that's for me what I prize myself on the most is a calmness in the face of adversary, um, which if everything is going um wrong for a client, I think I can offer a real calm, safe, powerful space for them to share and not get caught up in the emotion of tragedy traged tragedy or um discomfort that they are ex experiencing.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I uh really it really resonates with me because when I hold my my um um shamanic uh sort of like uh I guess meetings, I don't know how to call them, because if we call them ritual, it sounds like um we are summoning the the spirits and whatnot.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: But we always start with uh these kind of like breathing exercises that effectively put your mind into that uh flight or fight mode.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: In this way, effectively you start to only focus about what's really important, which is uh surviving, and everything else goes away, which I found uh always found fascinating.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's interesting that I I never thought about bringing or uh being aware of that thing as a dual coaching, which is quite uh an insight for me at least.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um how have you found uh the the the executives in the 21st century?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Are they uh resilient?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are they lacking something?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a skill that they should uh uh you know nurture more?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you think?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think um from my experience with the sort of small uh sample size that I have at the moment, it's everyone is in a rush.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think um and there's a there feels like there's something to prove all the time and uh being measured, lots of metrics.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think the efficacy of coaching um for me is the ability to slow down the cadence of life to observe what is truly important, um, and and I think it's interesting.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: The um I initially wanted to do hour-long or 45 to hour-long sessions because I thought everyone had too much time, too little time, and then we would take up too much time.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: But it's actually been the opposite in the fact that the first 45 minutes has been this download of a week or like how over two weeks, and then you get this torrent of things that are going on, and it's only once that torrent slows down and we start to work out what is really important and sort of separate the wood from the trees that the more the 90-minute two-hour sessions become more valuable, as this is when we start to separate um and remove the the initial sort of flooding of I've got I've got this safe space, I need to just download as much as I can, but then we work, and then it takes a bit of time once that's gone to really get into um the important sort of topics or goals of of of the coaching.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of course that that's that's interesting, and to be honest with you, I find that I find that very very similar.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I and it's difficult then to interrupt the train of thoughts because you don't want to you want to it is a safe space for people and also to express themselves and to unload I guess the abortions that they're having in their mind so that it becomes emptier and then we can have a conversation.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: As we are reaching the end of these uh these conversations, which probably I will do maybe a second round in the new year, is there something, a reflection, a thought that you would like to share?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh as awareness increases and experience increases, I find myself questioning what is judging and what is observing.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um for example, a client, uh a client said to me the other day, I I just can't win uh with this person.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and then I I think um I I I reply with what what open nice open question, what what are we what are you winning?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: What what do you hope to win?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: I can't something like this.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: And they maybe suggested that I um was judging their use of words.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it it then and then sort of definitely something that as a coach you take this to supervision is what is winning a conversation to me that it feels combative, so perhaps I am um judging a little bit.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I think maybe the the main thing reflection that I'm holding at the moment is uh uh at what point um is an intervention in a conversation like this judgmental, and what is useful observation and reflective to to the client?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Eliot, thank you very much for your time.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh really appreciate it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you then, Elliot.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'll see you in January.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, thank you so much.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.