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Cards Trade Deadline Watch: Trade Candidates, Winn Extension Talk · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes Lancelin, who's enjoying a beverage at his home,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: which is complete with a grotto that is not pictured
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: at present Lance, it's nice to see you here we are.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals are back below five hundred. They just kind
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of got curb stumped by the Cubs. One thing's clear
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: to me about the Cardinals, right have talent, We've seen it,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: but not enough talent. Unless they play a perfect game,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: they're probably not going to beat the really good teams consistently.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: So here we are at Hugwatch, waiting for what deals
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: they make, and it just dawns on me, Lance, Baseball
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: evens out. I don't know who told me that, but
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: baseball evens out. Just your thoughts on what we saw
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: from Cards Cubs. The only good thing for me was
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: it happened in Saint Louis, so I didn't have to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: hear that stupid go Cubs gohos on because I hate that.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you wouldn't have to see him flying the w
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: when you're getting on the bus, too, flipping you off,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: driving down the road. Nothing better. Yeah, I mean, here's
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: where we're at they were projected to win sixty six games,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: I think, and some things to start the year. They're
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: at five hundred team, they've been above five hundred. Young
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: players as the course of a season go on, get
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: their book gets out on them. Now it's going to
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: be time for them to make the adjustments of them
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: to do the things they need to do, and the
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: coaching staff might need to reevaluate the situation. Some of
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: these guys get put in to, you know, give them
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to feel good, but also get them to understand the
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: things that might have to change over the course of
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: one sixty two. So I think when we looked up
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: at the beginning of the year, at this point, if
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: they were close to five hundred, it would be hey,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: the young guys are somebody has taken over that needed
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: to We still need to trade the guys that are
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: coming up for free agency or that we planned on trading.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And we keep adding to what we know. And then
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I think the main thing everybody just needs to realize
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: if JJ and you have JJ and Walker are what
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: you hoped and dreamed for them to be. So it's
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: been a positive year and now we just keep adding
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: with the Burleies of the world doing what they're doing.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: We need Mason to kind of, you know, you know,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: be the Mason that we want him to be, hitting
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: two eighty five and you know, getting on base and
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: stealing bags and stuff like that, and that will come,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I think as year goes on here. So I think
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: all in all, they're in the spot that we kind
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: of hope they'd be in. We'd hope they'd be a
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: five hundred team, and we hope that they would be
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: adding youth at the deadline by trading guys that are
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: not gonna be under contract next year.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So we also have seen some pretty good starting pitching.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at it, Legi's gotten better
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: and better, Greevy's been really good, Polante has shown that
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: he is the real deal now with May who's probably
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: good as gun. I don't know if you saw, but
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: there was like a false flag hug watch during the game.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: He goes five innings, right, throws seventy pitches, comes out
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and he is hugging everybody. And like I've seen it
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: before where it's clear that a guy's gonna go it's
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: his last star couple embrace. He was hugging everyone he
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: was hugging hot dog vendors, right, I mean he went
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: in the stands and he hugged a ninety year old woman.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: It looked like something was going on. It wasn't on.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: But I think May is gonna be really appealing to
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of teams because specials last two starts, he's
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: shown that he's back.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're looking at May and some of
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the bullpen arms together are gonna get him something. They
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: should get him something pretty good in return, and I
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: think that's a very doable trade and a pretty obvious trade,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I think at this time of things. But yeah, hug
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: watches is part of this time of year. You know,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: cardinals have and and starting pitchers have always get you know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: done hugs and stuff after games or after starts, so
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: you know, you can't read too much into it. But
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: when you start hugging ninety year old ladies and hot
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: dog vendors and stuff like that, you're saying you're goodbyes.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it. And I
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: mean they're going on the road and and all that stuff,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: So you know, there's when you get traded on the road,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: you don't get a chance to do the things you
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: need to do and say the goodbyes you need to say.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: So if you know it's coming, and you feel it's coming,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: that's the best time to do it. And I think
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: that's what he was doing.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And tip of the cap to Dustin May. Really good guy,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of reserved, wasn't quite the character you were,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: but a really solid guy. And uh, I enjoy his
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: time in Saint Louis. But out with the old, in
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: with the new. Quinn Matthews is going to get a
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: start this week and he's a guy, twenty five year
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: old left hander who you know is one of their
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: top prospects. People been talking about him for a while
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: last month at Memphis and the ra of one. He's
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: piling up the strikeouts, still walking guys, but not as
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: much as he was before. And you look at his numbers,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: ninety two winnings, one hundred and eleven strikeouts. I'm excited
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: to see what this guy can do.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, usually when you come up to the big leagues,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: of strikeout numbers will come down a touch just because
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: you're probably gonna get a little you know, the one
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: through nine's are a little different than they are in
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Triple A. But for those numbers to be where they
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: are are are a positive sign. When he gets to
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: the big league level, we're gonna have to figure out, Okay,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: can we minimize the walks and if we are going
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: to have the walk, so let's walk the right guy
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: at the right time and not walk the bottom of
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the lineup to get back to the top. So you know,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: those are gonna be things we got to watch. Seems
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: to be the stuff's there. We'd see if the you know,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: the makeup. I think the big thing for everyone's gonna
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: be what's the makeup? And at this time of year,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: you got to see what he can do. There's no
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: other couple arms down there that they're gonna have to
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: see what can do this second half of the season,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: after the after the trade deadline, so they know what
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: they need to add in the offseason, because there's gonna
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: be some pitching that has to be added in the
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: off season if you truly want to be a playoff
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: push or a playoff caliber team. And you got to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: see what kind of young arms that you can count
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: on for a certain amount of innings, And then you
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: got to go out and get the innings you need
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: in free agencies. So the second half is gonna be
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: huge for not only him, but also other younger guys
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: that are going to come up. And I think it's
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: also gonna be huge for the Libbys of the world
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: to show, hey, I can I can be a number
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: three for you in the future. Stuff like that, and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: the same for Polante and Legy and McGreevy. It's like, hey,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: we need to figure out who's gonna be our We
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: need two or three guys that we can count on
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: to be threes and then we can say, all right,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: we don't have anybody that's got a chance to be
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: a one or a two. We can go get those
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: guys in free agency, or we can, you know, maybe
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: figure out, you know, what we can do on trades
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to add the things we need to make our rotation elite.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: It's quality, but we need it to be elite elite,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: and elite rotations win world championships.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the deadline is coming up Monday, and the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: boys from Foul Territory have a trade deadline special that
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: you won't want to miss.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: There is one place to be on trade deadline day
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: watching Foul Territory, of course. A J. Perdinski Aeric Kratz
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: and Scott Brown will be live all afternoon speaking with insiders,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: reading tea leaves, and reacting to unfolding deadline drama. Join
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: us on the FT YouTube channel at one pm ET
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: and stay locked in through the six pm deadline next Monday.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Foul Territory Network. It's baseball the way it should be covered.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: All right, Lance, So we've talked about it ad nauseum
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: on this wonderful podcast. So Ojo, Stanic may Good is gone.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: One guy we haven't really touched on. Riley O'Brien, the
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: all star right guy with unbelievable stuff, guy with control
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: left for the team. But he's thirty one, and he
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: has a history of, you know, various injuries along the way.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: The Cardinals certainly could deal him and get a return.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on Riley O'Brien as a trade
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: piece or do you keep them? We all know that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes bullpen guys can be sort of disposable.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say something that I don't know if
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: it's going to surprise you or you're gonna be like, yeah,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not surprised. I would see say that he is tradable,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: and I also say, Polante's tradeable at this time, and
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: they're both have control, but they also are in the
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: getting in the age back or the control bracket to
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: where if they're not, if you don't see them as
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: being an elite closer and or elite starting pitcher at
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: one to two, you get them out of here. Now
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: why they have some value to teams because of the
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: control and money to bigger market teams, then maybe you
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: can if your scouting department and your analytic department are
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: as good as you want them to be, they can
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I can identify that double A or triple A young arm,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: that twenty two to twenty four year old that can say,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: oh he has the ability to be a one or
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: two in the future, and it's a two for one
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: type of situation. So yes, I see those guys being
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: a possibility. I love Polante, I love Riley. I think
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: that both of them are having great years, but I
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: think that they fit on any contending team that needs
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: innings and they need back end leverage. But they also
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: if you're not going to compete in the next year
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: or two, I think you know some people are saying
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: it's not going to look like till twenty eight to
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: be full compete mode. Both of those guys are going
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to be either thirty three and or a free agent.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: So I think that's kind of the thing that you
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: can look at and you can always find relievers. Look
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: at Stanek, you found him one for three that can
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: give you quality innings at the back end, And you
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: can always find a one for five to eight million
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: dollar guy on the free agent market that can give you,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: you know, twenty five to thirty starts with one hundred
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and sixty innings and a you know, a you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: a four era with lesson strikeout for nine and that's
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: what Colante's been. So I would capitalize on their youth
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and their season right now to get better for the future.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: So with Polonte, I also happen to think he might
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: be the most popular guy in that clubhouse, like like
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the position players love them, pitchers love them, and usually
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: there's a clique like the starting rotation guys. You know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: this kind of a little separated. Everybody loves him. But
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the work he's put in to get to this point
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: to be a bona fide starter, you don't think there
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: would be like repercussions in house or does that not
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: even matter, because I agree with you if you're thinking
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: of selling high, Polante's the guy because he's putting together
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a really good season.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I think the main thing that they're going to have
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: to ask themselves is do you see Polonte being a
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: top three in the rotation starter from here to then
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: till twenty eight? And I would say that there's people
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: in there in the front office that say yes. But
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I will also say that there's people in the coaching
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: staff in front office that are going to say no.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: So if it's not unanimous yes, then you see what
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you can get for him now at is probably at
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: his peak value because of the controlled years left and
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the innings that he's putting up. He's putting up innings
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: strikeout numbers aren't ideal for what he's got going. He's
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: a really good defense behind him to keep the contact
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and the er down because of how much contact he
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: gives up and stuff like that. So there's a lot
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: of variables that say, hey, you know he is what
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: he is, there might not be anymore, so let's trade
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: him at the highest value because a lot of those
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: guys get going into free agency and stuff like that,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and that market. You know, he goes into a market
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: of if you don't strike out more than one per nine,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: you're automatically put in the eight to ten million dollars
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: of a year market. And you know that if you're
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: looking at that market as for him, then hey, why
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: he's making four to six or whatever he gets, he
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: becomes valuable for these bigger market teams or teams that
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: are looking for rotation depth.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I got to tell you, the way you're kind of
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: laying out of your case, it seems to me at
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: some point you might have to take the hat off
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: shave because you're going to be a general manager. Look,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see Palante go because I like him,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: But you make sense, all right. Another guy who i've
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: memory serves you want to keep Newt. A lot of
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: guys talk about Newt possibly being on the move because
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: they have young outfielders that can replace him. And I
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: think Newt has value. He had his heel surgeries, he
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: looks pretty good, looks healthy, moving well, and he can
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: do a lot of things for a lot of teams.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I think it's new It's the same exact as Plante
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the values there. I think Newt brings a different element
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: because of the ability to play three outfield positions and
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: hit from the left side. He draws his walks, he
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: does a lot of different things that bring winning baseball.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: So Newt's in the same boat as Polonte. It's like, Okay,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: when's our window? When's our truth? When do we truly
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: think our window is going to be? Is it next year?
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: If it's next year, then you're gonna have to say,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: all right, what can I put around these guys in
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: free agency? And if it's okay, we might be looking
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: more towards twenty eight, then it's those two probably need
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to be traded and you get the best value for
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: him now, because if you look at where they're at,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: twenty eight, Plante I think will be his last year
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: before free agency, and Newt will be already be a
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: free agent at that time. So I think if their
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: eyes are on twenty eight, then you say, all right,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: we are in a good spot core wise to really
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: see what next year brings us. Let's add now and
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: then see what the free agent market brings us, and
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: then we can use our resources, our depth in the
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: minor leagues to go put the pieces we need around
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: the Walkers and Burley's and Herrera, Mace and JJ and
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: then next thing, you know, you add one or two bats,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: you add two arms, and you're right back in the
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: thick of this thing and you're still holding your pieces
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: all for twenty eight too. So that's just what they're
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: trying to build. And if you say, all right, twenty
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: seven is going to be, hey, we're going to add
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit, but we're not going to totally go
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: for it, then it's okay. Get everything that you can
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: for everybody right now. Go to free agency next year,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: and if something falls into your lap, you are feeling
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: great for it because there will be some things following
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: your lap with the CBA and this and that. There's
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: gonna be some boys that are going to sign quick
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: because they're nervous about the lockout. And then there's good
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: it be when the lockout's over and you know, middle
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: of season next year, after the season, you're gonna be
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: able to look at it and say, hey, cool, I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: can add I can add to add pieces there, because
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: who knows what it's gonna look like. Yeah, I just
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: said it. They're gonna lock out for a whole year.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: But that's beside the point. It might be two that's
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: what the owners think they can break it. They if
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we can hold out for a whole two years, the
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: players will break. That's what I'm hearing. So it should
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: be an interesting time. So if you're looking at that
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: the next season won't be played till twenty eight, you
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: might as well get as much youth as you can
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: right now, and then you can just reboot in this
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: new CBA and the whole new landscape of baseball in
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: two years.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, if there's a lockout for two years, my family
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and I might be putting a tent and on the
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: ground they're.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Missing games next year, Jim, I hate to tell you
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that there's no way they're not. They almost missing us
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: for nothing in the last one, and there's a change
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: in the last one. They almost miss games, and then
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: they're like, okay, cool here, we know it's gonna be
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: a whole year.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I just I think the fan right now hate everybody,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: So I hope I'm hoping that doesn't happen. All right.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I want to circle back because in one of the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: recent episodes, we talked about Mason win and I think
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: someone some people cherry picked and like lez Lynz, says
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: they should trade Mason Win, you did not say that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I put you on the spot and I said, give
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: me a controversial take, and you explained the fact that
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: if you were Mason, maybe you're ticked that JJ got
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the bag that you wanted to lead off and you
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: never got.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: I was going off of how I was ticked my
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: first time around in Saint Louis. So I understand if
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: he is. But I think we both agree.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Like I saw Mason Winn make a play yesterday, and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I know Ozzie Smith is a Hall of Famer and
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I put him above everybody else, But he made the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: kind of play Ozzie Smith wouldn't made yesterday, And I
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: thought to myself, I want to see him and JJ
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: up the middle for years wearing a cardinal uniform. And
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna build, if you're retooling, that's a good
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: place to start. So we both agree, right, we're hoping
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Mason Win stays for a long time.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I agree. I'm with you one hundred percent,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm I'm on I'm on board now with if
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you're good, If that's what you want, let's put them
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: up the middle. They're gonna they're gonna play short stop
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: and second base, and they're gonna bat one two and
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: our team is going to ride or die with these
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: two with Jordan Walker driving them in afterwards, and Herrera
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: driving him in, Burley driving him in. Let's get the top.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Let's get the top, just churpy. If you get Mason
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: at the top of the lineup at one or two
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: where he can shoot a ball to right, and you know,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: jj can go first to third, and then you have
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you know, there's all kinds of different problems that that
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: brings to the top of the lineup. Let's build around
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: those two, and let's build around Herrera, Burley and Walker
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: as however you want to push those guys in three, four, five,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And then it's say, oh man, as a starting picture,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: you come in, You're like, they don't all do the
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: same things. They they don't all have strikeout, but they can.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: But they also can can do some damage if you
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: make mistakes. They run a little bit, they put the
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: bat on the ball. That's a pain in the ass.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Top of the lineup right there. And then you see
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: what you can what you can manufacture six through nine
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: with your you know, with whatever you have, you know
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: left on the roster. And then next thing. You know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, and what can I add with those
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: guys to make them, protect them a little bit more,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: make them a little bit better, make them take the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: next step. I'm with you. I don't want to trade Mason.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: You asked for controversy, and I gave you the one
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: of the most controversial things that you can possibly have.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And I also said Herrera too, Do I want to
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: trade either one of them? No, they're both very young,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: very talented, and and good ball players that are going
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to help this team win for a long time. But
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: they are Those are two people that would bring you
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: back a ship ton and a trade right now, I think,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and that would be very controversial. But you also you
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: know if that's where you're at, and you know who
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: knows what's going on. So that was from my hot takes.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I like that, and again i'd put you on the spot.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I said, give me controversial things. They weren't necessarily yours.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: You are answering the question back to Herrera though that
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: guy was slumping. I love that guy, by the way.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I think he has a unique skill set offensively, and
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: he walked it off the other day. The power is
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: coming back and made some adjustments in terms of staying
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: back on the baseball, but we never know how these
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: things are going. Just gut feeling, do you think and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: we both want him to stay because we both consider
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: him a core piece that makes them a dangerous lineup.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: But someone's gonna go. Do you think there's a chance
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: they deal Herrera?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think here's the only way that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: he gets traded, and it's this is if they do
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: not see him as a every day or let's say
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: one hundred days behind the plate a year catcher. Then
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: the question after that is do does he doing do
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: enough DH wise to warrant him being a full time
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: d H. You know, I don't know the answers yet
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: because he is young, and it's there's some you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: there's some still some growth that's going to have to
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: go into being a you know, a d H you
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: wanted to be two fifty plus with thirty like, yes,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: that's your DH has got to do that for you
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: in today's game, And I don't know. I think he's
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: very valuable with the catching, with the catching and hitting
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: two teams. And if you don't think he's your everyday
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: guy for one hundred plus starts a year behind the plate,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: then you have to think about it because then another
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: team might still think that. And it's not you're not
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: that you're giving up on him. It's just, hey, that
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: we don't see that fit here, and we're looking at
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: our We have these catchers that are going to bring
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: us to this that we like, our our our rotation,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: our bullpen. They do well with them, they hit enough,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: and then we can trade Herrera for something that is
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: where we're weak, and that, in my opinion, that's elite.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Starting youth pitching, they do not have the young They
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: don't have a young projected ace. They have some guys
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that are have the ability to that projective as threes,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: but you can't have a rotation full of threes and
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: expect to be winning championships or winning the division. So
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: you know, if it's there, then you see it. And
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: you look at the free agent market. Every year there's
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: a dh that guy every year that hits twenty five
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to thirty home runs that is just sitting there waiting
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: for a job at the end of the year. So
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: dh is can be found for one for ten to fifteen,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and then if you have a young, controllable ace, because
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: you traded Herrera way then you're looking at, Okay, what's
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: my team look like? And those are the things the
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: front office have to calculate and see, you know, if
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: that's what our best chance is to win on.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Herrera is a hard working kit but they're running on
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: him now like he's not throwing anyone else out. So
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: in terms of giving him more work behind the plate,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: they got to fix that before anything. Uh, Baseball America
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: is the best place to learn about prospects that could
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: possibly be on the move. And boy, do we have
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: a deal for you now through Monday, we'll be You'll
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: be getting thirty percent off a yearly digital subscription to
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Baseball America. Use the code Cardinal thirty and go to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: baseball america dot com. One last thing before we wrap
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: it up, Lance, I was talking to Lars new Bar
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and a couple of the other players about this. It's
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: hugwatch and everything, and I say, hey, uh do you
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: uh do we even pay attention to that stuff? Uh?
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Do you just try to shut out the chatter? And
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: new told me, look, I told my agent, if it's
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: something serious, get a hold of me. If not, I'm good,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: he said. My circle of friends and family. No, don't
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: bother me with stuff. And he said, he's not scrolling.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: My question is you're scrolling to see what's going.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: On or not? Yeah, there you are, and you're you're
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: It's simple. I mean, you just see nowadays everything can
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: just if if anybody's got a check, and it's a
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: like a reporter wise that you know, UH is deep
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: into you know certain things. You you keep an eye
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: on what they're saying. You try to stay away from
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: the random Uh. You'd never heard of reporters UH saying
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: this is going on or that's going on. So you
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: keep tabs on things and you for me, when both
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: times I got traded, I was a little bit older,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: so I knew exactly what was going on because I
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: was talking to the front office and and going from there.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know, if you know, I don't know where
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: where Heim's at in that category with with some of
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: these guys, because you know, none of them are like
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the only the only person I think is guaranteed to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: be traded is may of them. They have to be
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: they have to win that trade to trade that guy.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, you're not just getting rid of him
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: to get rid of him. May isn't going to You're
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: not going to you know, he's not going to be
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: back next year, whether it's he doesn't pick up his option,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: you don't pick up the option, or he doesn't accept
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: the qualifying offer. And I don't know if you're gonna
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: want to give him a qualifying offer for twenty five
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: million dollars a year. So I think that he's the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: only one that you can be like, hey, he's going
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to get traded. The rest of him, there's no need
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: to talk to you about until it's like, hey, this
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: is going down within the next hour. I just wanted
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: you to know first, so there's no need to get
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: get ahead of yourself because you don't know what's going on.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: So like my last year in Saint Louis, MO came
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: up to me and I was one of the people
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that might get traded then because I was going to
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: be a free agent, and he goes, you will hear
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: from me first, So I didn't pay attention to anything
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: else after that.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Nice. Nice, Well, last, I appreciate you taking time away
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: from your grotto. You're on the computer, not the phone,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: so you can't swing it around, but.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: You have them. Yeah, let me get by. It's a
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: little rainy too. It's magical.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: You got it? Yeah, wait, lower it a little bit.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: There we go.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Man, that's nice. All right, get to the grotto. That's
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory. Lance
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: you're the best. Hopefully the next edition of Cardinal Territory
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: won't suck.