Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #991 This Week in Parenting: Vape Zones, Baby Bans & Nicotine Pouches

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#991 This Week in Parenting: Vape Zones, Baby Bans & Nicotine Pouches · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Now, So we've begun this podcast. By the way, welcome
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to this Week in Parenting. This Week in Parenting is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the podcast where we have a look at the stuff
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: that's in the news that affects parents and talk about
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: what's going on for mums and dads and cares that
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: are just wanting to make their family happy. Kylie's got
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: her back to me.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you put me in the naughty corner.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: It feels like we don't do that. We don't do
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: that in this house. But you've got you back to me.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: When we sit facing each other, it basically looks like
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it doesn't look like it sounds like we're broadcasting from
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a toilet.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: We're definitely not.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're definitely not in a toilet. I promise you that.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: But anyway, welcome to this Week in Parenting. Kylie. We
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: have a bunch of stories. You are as always conducting
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the music here. What are we talking about first and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: where are we going with it? Well?
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I think we need to revisit the blue episode the Sign.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: We talked about it a couple of weeks back.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: If you're looking at. On the podcast, I think I
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: said something like.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I really liked it, Ji, can you replay that.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Such sublime content for our kids to watch. There's a
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: reason that it's the number one TV show on the planet. Okay,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: so I definitely definitely said that I liked it on
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm having second thoughts. I mean, I love Bluie.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: It's not that I don't like Blue. I just think
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that I think that they got it wrong, Kylie. I
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: think that the sign was wrong.
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  Speaker 2: Look at two things here. I'm actually really surprised that
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  Speaker 2: you're still thinking about it.
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  Speaker 1: Blue gets in your head.
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  Speaker 2: But number two, when we recorded it, you acknowledged that
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: you were actually deeply saddened by the fact that we've
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: done so many moves, and you wonder how children's lives
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: would be different, specifically had they have had more stability,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: which was actually quite a shock to me. So where
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: are you standing now?
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  Speaker 1: Well, the reason that I am not happy with Blue
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  Speaker 1: is because I think that they missed an opportunity to
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  Speaker 1: teach I guess they taught parents that if you can
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  Speaker 1: maintain stability, you don't have to keep on chasing the
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: dollar and keep on chasing the corporate climb. That's one
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  Speaker 1: listen there, but I don't know if too many parents
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  Speaker 1: would have picked that up. I just don't know if
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  Speaker 1: that's what most parents are going to do when cost
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  Speaker 1: of living bites and there's opportunities for improvement and so on,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: and families do move often, they don't want to. Often
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: there's no choice. It just has to be done. And
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  Speaker 1: I reckon they should have just done it different. I
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  Speaker 1: reckon that the sign should have finished with the moving
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  Speaker 1: and having to readjust having to try to figure out
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  Speaker 1: what now.
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  Speaker 2: Even in spite of the fact that you wish your
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  Speaker 2: kids had more stability.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, simply because people don't. And apart from that,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: they would have gotten another full season of Bluey with
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: everything that happened moving forward interesting. So that's not really
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: a this Week in pairenting, but more of just a
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: felt like there was a loose end hanging over my head.
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  Speaker 1: I still love Bluie, I'm not cranky about it, but
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  Speaker 1: there was opportunities there. I reckon the conversations could have
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  Speaker 1: been phenomenal. Let's get into the real news now. Storry
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  Speaker 1: number two. So there's a parliamentary inquiry probing New South
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Wales vaping regulation and compliance happening right now, and an
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  Speaker 1: academic in New South Wales, so a fellow by the
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  Speaker 1: name of Colin Mendelssohn, who is the founding chairman of
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  Speaker 1: the Australian Tobacco Harm Reduction Association, has said that basically
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  Speaker 1: the government's efforts to regulate the vaping industry completely dismal failure.
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  Speaker 1: Vaping laws have existed, saying that it's been illegal to
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  Speaker 1: import or sell nicotine vapes without a prescription in Australia
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  Speaker 1: since mid twoenty twenty one. What we also know though,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: is that vapes that do not contain nicotine are currently
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  Speaker 1: legal in New South Wales, but a lot of ease
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  Speaker 1: cigarettes with nicotine are being sold without a label that's
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: advertising that products have nicotine. Basically, people are flatting the
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  Speaker 1: rules all over the place and because of this inquiry,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Mendelssohn is basically saying what we want to do
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  Speaker 1: is we know that some kids are addicted and they're
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  Speaker 1: going to continue to vape no matter what, and therefore
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  Speaker 1: his focus is on minimizing harm for the child and
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  Speaker 1: harm to the classroom. He also said this was interesting.
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  Speaker 1: He said vaping was one of the least harmful risk
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  Speaker 1: behavior's children indulge in. And he said he would much
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  Speaker 1: rather his children or grandchildren vape than smoke or drink
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  Speaker 1: drive regardless, really really really bad for you, really unhealthy.
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  Speaker 1: And this is the conversation that's happening right now.
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  Speaker 2: So I guess the thing that I find most intriguing
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  Speaker 2: about this is just the acknowledgment we know how harmful
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: cigarettes are. Yeah, nicotine is a drug that our kids
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: have access to every day, Like they can walk into
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  Speaker 2: any store as long as they've got an adult purchasing
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  Speaker 2: for them, they can get access to it whenever they want.
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  Speaker 1: Smoking is on the way down, by the way, Smoking
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  Speaker 1: has been on the way down for quite.
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  Speaker 2: A while, but vaping has gone through the room.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And so it's really intriguing to me that we're having
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  Speaker 2: a conversation about how we teach our kids to have
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  Speaker 2: safe access to it when we recognize and know just
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  Speaker 2: how harmful it is.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the impact of vaping on physical health, but also
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  Speaker 1: mental health. There's concerned that if someone's anxious or depressed
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  Speaker 1: or using vapes for other reasons and it could exacerbate
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  Speaker 1: those issues. I'm really sympathetic to an understanding of the
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  Speaker 1: compassionate grounds for a harm reduction policy. But fundamentally these
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  Speaker 1: things are dangerous. I read something that there's something like
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: two hundred chemicals contained in vapes, and many of those
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  Speaker 1: chemicals cause cancer. It's known that they're carcinogens. I just
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  Speaker 1: think it's nuts that people are getting away with this
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  Speaker 1: and that the government doesn't do muto crack down. I
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  Speaker 1: mean it's almost like they've shrugged their shoulder and said, oh,
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  Speaker 1: too bad, so sad. We're having this inquiry, We're going
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  Speaker 1: to try to tighten things up, but ultimately people are
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  Speaker 1: still going to do it. I guess that's what government
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: it's therefore, so that they can try to make something happen.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: That's an improvement. Definitely, definitely don't let your kids vape.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Encourage them to stay away from it. If you want
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: more about that, have listened to my conversation with doctor
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  Speaker 1: Lisa de Moore on Instagram. We will link to that
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  Speaker 1: one in the show notes. Story number three has regulation
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  Speaker 1: around vaping titans right the way across the country.
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  Speaker 2: There are concerns the crackdown might cause kids and teens
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  Speaker 2: to switch to other products. Yeah, I mean nicotine pouches
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  Speaker 2: have now grown in popularity after viral videos advertise them
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  Speaker 2: as a means of quitting e cigarettes. Well, this is
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: actually a little bit of an extension from the vaping conversation.
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  Speaker 2: Kids are now having access to nicotine pouches.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a brand new nicotine product out. It's
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  Speaker 1: becoming increasingly popular with young people. And here's the scary thing.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of parents won't even know that their kids
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  Speaker 1: are using it because they're essentially invisible nicotine pouches. They're
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: called zins or snuffs or little lip pillows. It sounds
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  Speaker 1: so nice, So it sounds so friendly, So gentle a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: little lippillow. They've become fashionable, all thanks to what do
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: you know, social media? Social media is the harder kind
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: of everything that's going wrong with the world. I think
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  Speaker 1: they look like these tiny teapags. They're filled with nicotine
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  Speaker 1: flavors include mint, bubblegum, mango. It sounds so good, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 1: And you just place this tiny little nicotine pouch between
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  Speaker 1: your lip and your gum and the nicotine is absorbed
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  Speaker 1: directly into the bloodstream. Here's what some young people said
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  Speaker 1: on a Current Affair about these nicotine pouches. I was
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  Speaker 1: in high school.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of people are doing them, and that's where
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  Speaker 2: I initially tried them.
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  Speaker 1: Eighteen year old Matilda and twenty year old Jacob have
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  Speaker 1: both tried pouches.
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  Speaker 2: You pull it out and it's like, just like gum.
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  Speaker 2: People ain't really like blank an eye at.
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  Speaker 1: It rather than seeing pops of clouds coming out.
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  Speaker 2: At one point I put eight in just for the
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  Speaker 2: giggles and it killed one mouth.
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  Speaker 1: So the whole goal is that these pouches are very,
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  Speaker 1: very discreet, they smell good, and unfortunately they get you
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  Speaker 1: addicted to nicotine.
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  Speaker 2: Well it's like a breath freshener with a kick, right.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wow, that sounds like a marketing line. Wow, you
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  Speaker 1: didn't mean that, but that was good. Yeah, And people
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  Speaker 1: keep on mentioning kids in focus groups, keep on mentioning
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  Speaker 1: these pouches. They're getting them from tobacconists, they're buying them online.
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  Speaker 1: They're this trending new thing.
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  Speaker 2: They're not but did you say they're illegal.
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  Speaker 1: They are not legal products in Australia, and I guess
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  Speaker 1: something aligned with that chewing tobacco that's been banned in
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  Speaker 1: Australia since nineteen ninety one. This is kind of like
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  Speaker 1: a less obvious version of that, and they're not chewing it.
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  Speaker 1: They're just sort of sticking it in between their gums
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  Speaker 1: and their lips. It's kind of crazy. Tobacconists reckon that
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  Speaker 1: nicotine pouch sales are absolutely booming, and no surprise, two
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  Speaker 1: of the largest tobacco companies in the world, Philip Morrison
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  Speaker 1: British American Tobacco have created their own brands. Reading from
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  Speaker 1: news dot com dot U In twenty twenty two, the TGA,
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  Speaker 1: the Therapeutic Goods Administration, sees around about one hundred and
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  Speaker 1: ten thousand of those pouches last year three point five million,
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  Speaker 1: and so far this year, the Federal Health Department reckons
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: about five point one million units were under assessment for seizure.
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  Speaker 1: These nicotine pouches are booming.
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  Speaker 2: So the thing that I find really curious about all
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  Speaker 2: of this is just the acknowledgment that often we have
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  Speaker 2: conversations about the fact that the government needs to do
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  Speaker 2: more to safeguard our kids, or you know, to change
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  Speaker 2: laws or whatever. But you're literally telling me that sales
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  Speaker 2: are going through the roof for these pouches, and yet
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  Speaker 2: they're illegal. We have these we have these laws, but
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  Speaker 2: there's no enforcement.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm the legislator, just it's.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Curious to me. If you're going to create a law,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: then there needs to be a way to safeguard the
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: citizens of any society, but also to enforce the law,
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  Speaker 2: or else the law becomes a joke.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, bigger fines, closing shops, that sort of stuff. He's
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  Speaker 1: an interesting thing that I discovered. A medium strength nicotine
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  Speaker 1: pouch contains about ten milligrams of nicotine. That's a medium
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: strength about ten milligrams. Average cigarette contains about twelve miligrams
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  Speaker 1: of nicotine.
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  Speaker 2: But I'm going to assume, though, if these pouches are
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: directly absorbed into the bloodstream, they're going to be way
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: more effective.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So with a Litz cigarette, because it burns so much,
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  Speaker 1: you only absorb about one point five of that twelve milligrams,
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  Speaker 1: whereas if you've got a ten miligram nicotine pouch, you're
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: getting every single bit of that is all going in.
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  Speaker 2: There, so almost ten times.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, it's a really big problem. I Mean,
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  Speaker 1: I just can't believe the ethics of these companies that
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  Speaker 1: create them. Philip Morris, which makes Zinns facing a lawsuit
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: in America at the moment because of the claims that
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: it's addictive and harmful to young people, and yet they
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: keep on making it. Why Because the dollar matters more
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  Speaker 1: than anything else. Story number four.
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  Speaker 2: The South Australian government are working towards banning social media
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  Speaker 2: for under fourteens.
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  Speaker 3: South Australian Premier Peter Malanaskis says a ban would help
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: young people improve their mental health. The excessive use of
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: social media with an ally itself was actually doing harm
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: to our young people's mental health. And then we're seeing
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: a dramatic spike in childhood depression, childhood anxiety, and it's
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: most extreme and for soon evidence of youth suicide. And
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: I think we're sort of at the point now that
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: governments have to act.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: This is a really really vexing, really challenging, tricky issue.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I don't know what the right thing to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: do here. People get around bands, banning and regulation and
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: restriction like this doesn't usually go particularly well. Banning might
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: seem like the easier answer, it rarely is. However, when
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: you look at the way school students, too many of
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: them are using social media the way they're getting likes
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: and shares and popularity by sharing violent acts that they
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: commit towards one another, or anti social acts or theft
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: or I mean, the list is so long that the bullying,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: just the awful stuff. There so many things that go
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: wrong here. I just I think that they need to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: be applauded for at least looking into it. They're calling
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: it ambitious. That's the word that they're using. And under
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the proposal, they're saying children aged fourteen and fifteen would
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: require parental consent to access a social media account. If
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: you're under fourteen in South Australia, you just wouldn't be
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: allowed to use social media. Now again, I have no
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: idea how they'll do that. They've got some very very
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: credible and thoughtful people looking into what that might look like.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Obviously everyone around the place has got a big opinion
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: about it. Good on for having a look at it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: If it could be done in a productive and effective way,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I'm off for it. I am actually off for it.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I just think social media, the phone based childhood and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: all the awfulness that goes along with it. The more
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: we can keep our kids away from it, and the
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: longer we can keep our kids away from it. The
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: better start, slow, delay access. I mean, this is the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: right idea. I don't know whether it can be executed.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there's got to be a better
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: way of doing it, but I've just love that we're
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: talking about it, and that would not only be enough,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: but one more, just one more today because we love
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: this Week in Parenting.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Australian model Ali Gonzavis said parents go into defense mode
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: over her viral list containing one hundred and eighteen reasons
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: not to have kids.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this thirty three year old who's been with
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: her husband for like fifteen years or something, which is
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a really I mean, that's great stuff, but she published
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: this list on social media when absolutely viral. One hundred
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and eighteen reasons why I'm never having kids, she said.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: In response to people's queries, she said, this is a
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: very honest, personal list as to why I will remain
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: child free. She said, it's my own personal thoughts based
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: on a lot of my own experiences or things very
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: honest people have shared with me personally or online. And
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: then she shares a whole heap of.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Things kids can be rude.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: She said, you have to take in kids to sports
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: on the weekends. You have to go to your kids
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: parent teach your interviews. You have to pay school fees
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: and excess of ten thousand dollars per year. If you
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: want your kid to go to a good school, then
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: you've got the C section scars. Your vagina will be
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: different post natural birth. The epidural needle is massive. A
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: whole room of people see your vagina and your insights.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: You more than likely will pull yourself during birth. You
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: could get postpartum depression. The food you cook your kids
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: will usually not be eaten because kids are picky eating.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: That's so pressing. So if you have.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Kids and regret it, you're stuck with them forever.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: My favorite one is rule number nineteen or reason number nineteen.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: They can pooll inside you. I presume she's speaking about
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: when the baby is inside you, that it has to
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: have some sort of waste elimination. I wonder if she
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: knows that it's all biologically okay, like that's look.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I read the list and obviously.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Body swelling, face swelling. I mean, all of the.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Things are legit, right, they all happen. But the reality
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: is everybody has their own opportunity to make their own
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: minds up whether or not they want children or not.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Well, she's not trying to convince other people that she's right.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: No, But what she is saying is that people who
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: are parents specifically get really upset with her decision not
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to and they're trying to convince her that she's making
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I don't you know, White people get so hot onto
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the color about this, and that's my thing. I just
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: think each to their own, and based on her list,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: she doesn't.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: She probably she's a lot of mum, and I'm.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Really grateful that she has the foresight to recognize that
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: she's not a mom.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Best line of the article Gonzalves, who has been with
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: her husband Ross for fifteen years, so the two of
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: them have worked really, really hard for peace. Quote now,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: we just don't care to disrupt that piece, she said,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Good move, because if you have kids, you're going to
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: disrupt that piece. As parents of six kids, what is peace?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: What is peace? We hope you've enjoyed this week in parenting.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to the Happy Families podcast.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It's produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: is our executive producer. For more information about how you
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: can make your family happy. Yeah, we'd love for you
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to visit us at happy families dot com dot au
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: H