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What A Girl Wants · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: waters this podcast is recorded on. Timing is everything. We
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: hear that so much when it comes to love and relationships,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: because there may come a time you meet the love
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: of your life, but the life part gets in the way.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: The love is there, the chemistry is there, but the timing, terrible.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: The distance, impossible. And the circumstances, well, they're just completely
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: out of your hands. You are perfect for each other,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: just not the life you're actually living. And that's what
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: happened for Michelle and Finn.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: I just kept blaming it on the distance. Like if
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: we lived in the same country or the same state,
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: like we would be able to do this, like we
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: would be able to work it out. So I just
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: blamed the distance on everything, that it was only the distance,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: that we still loved each other, both of us. And
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: I was convinced in my head and in my soul
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: that he was the one.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: But when you're convinced you've found the one, you'll do
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: almost anything to make it work. And that's where the
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: power of manifestation comes in. Believe it hard enough, put
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: it out into the universe, and maybe, just maybe, you
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: can make it happen. What's meant for you will always come.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: So he came all this way, and I thought this
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: was our magical time to be together. He has come
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: all this way. He's now in my country. We're going
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: to have the best time. And that's just not what happened.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has an Ex.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: unconventional stories about relationships past, through the eyes and the
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: hearts of the very people who lived them. I think
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I speak for a lot of us when I say
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: there was a time when moving to New York City
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: in your 20s was the ultimate dream. Sex and the
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: City had us convinced we should pack our bags, move
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: to Manhattan and try our luck at finding our very
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: own Mr Big, Aiden or even Alexander Petrovsky. But Michelle... Well,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: she was already living the New York dream, and instead
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: of chasing it, she decided to flip the script completely,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: packing her bags, leaving Manhattan behind, and moving halfway across
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: the world to Sydney, Australia. Carrie Bradshaw would never.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I was 23 years old.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I had just left my job in fashion in New
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: York City to do a working holiday in Sydney, Australia.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: And so I, of course, moved to Bondi, and I
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: got a job working at Hurricane Spa and Grill. And
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I was walking home around midnight one night, smelling of
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Hurricane's Rib Sauce. And I met these two guys outside
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: of a bar. And they were walking in the same
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: direction I was back home. And they asked me what
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: my name was. We ended up living about two streets
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: away from each other. And they offered for me to
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: come in and have another drink with them.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So I did, of course.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: And I started to really fancy this one guy who
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: was named Finn.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: The other guy was Finn's roommate. Now, he won't feature
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: for very long in this story, but don't underestimate his
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: importance because without him, this whole meet-cute may never have happened.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I cringe at this moment all the time. I actually
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: complimented his roommate's.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Bike bell because he dinged his bike because they were
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: behind me and they needed to get through. And I
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: was like, oh my God, I love your bike bell.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Where'd you get it? And I was like, where'd you
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: get your bike bell? Of course, from like a bike shop. Anyway,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: so his roommate was like, oh yeah, at a bike store,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: anywhere you could buy bikes. And I was like, OK.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: And then we just started chatting. And Finn actually was
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: very quiet. And I actually didn't think he was into
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: me at all at first. And his roommate kind of was.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: And his roommate was very forward, very chatty. And he
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: was the one who actually invited me over. So Finn
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: did invite me over. He barely even talked. But then
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: once we got inside, he kind of started coming out
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: of his shell. And I started to feel more attracted
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: to Finn than his roommate. And then I think his
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: roommate kind of got the kind of got it and
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: then just left us alone to have a chat. And then, yeah,
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: he ended up walking me home. And we had a
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: very intimate night together. And after that, we were basically together.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: He was Swedish born, lived in Australia at this point,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: I think for about five years. He was already like
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: a permanent resident or getting his permanent residency. Our friend
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: groups really like meshed well. Like I got along great
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: with all his friends and he got along great with
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: my friends. We hung out at the beach a lot.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: We only lived two blocks away. He was very, you know,
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: generous and caring. And, you know, we cooked meals together.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: We kind of already cohabitated together because we lived two
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: blocks away. So we were literally always together. I met
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: his family. It seems at first, I guess it was like, oh,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: this is fun. It almost felt like we were just
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: on holidays all the time, right? You know, you're just
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: living in Bondi. Everything's cruisy. But It got pretty serious
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: pretty fast. It was very intense, very fast. We were
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: very physically attracted to each other. We said, I love
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: you very quickly. And there was just such an attraction there,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: I think, on all levels. And we just really had
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: a great time together. And maybe it was a lot
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: of lust, but there was just a lot of fun
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: times as well. And yeah, I think it all just
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: happened really fast.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: As the old saying goes, time flies when you're having fun.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately for Michelle and Finn, time was the one thing
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: they didn't have on their side. Michelle's visa was only
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: months away from expiring, which meant some big decisions were looming.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And the weight of what came next was starting to
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: hang over both of them.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: I started to notice that I was getting in my, like,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And it was also winter, obviously, in Sydney, which is
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: actually really cold. I don't think people realize how cold
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: it gets in Sydney because there's no heating. And so
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: I already have a bit of seasonal depression, but I
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: definitely was in like an anxiety, depression mode. Like I
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: wasn't eating. I was sleeping all the time. I remember
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: I would just literally go to work, sleep and just
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: see Finn everywhere. I was super depressed. I was not okay.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: And it was like this dread that you know is coming.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: You can't control it and you have to accept it,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: but you don't want it. And anytime we talked about it,
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: it would just end up in like a big blowout fight. Usually, obviously,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: when we were drinking, it started to get really hard
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: and we started to fight a lot about what I
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: would do to stay in Australia because the only other
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: visa that I could get at the time was a
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: student visa and I had already done college. I didn't
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: wanna go back to college. I didn't wanna be on
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: a student visa. There was the engagement visa, which we
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: did talk about, but you have to get married within
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: eight months of that visa. And that just seemed way
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: too much pressure. It was too soon, too much for
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: the both of us. It definitely felt pretty heavy at
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: that time to do that visa. He had previously lived
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: in London before, which is, you know, obviously a big
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: city like New York. And he had expressed to me
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: that he didn't want to move back to a place
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: like London because of the weather. He liked living near
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: the beach. He was, you know, a surfer. He loved
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Sydney and he had only been there, I think, at
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: that stage, maybe five or six years. And so he
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: had already expressed that he didn't really want to move
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: to a place like New York.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So they were caught between a rock and a hard place.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: After a whirlwind nine months together and still very much
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: in love, they made two big decisions. Michelle was moving
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: back to New York and their relationship wasn't ending. Yep,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: they're going to give long, long distance a red hot shot.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: The night before I had my flight to back home
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: to New York, He actually threw me a surprise dinner.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: I had no idea with all of my closest friends
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: who I'd met in that past year of being in Sydney.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: And it was the first time anybody has ever thrown
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: me anything surprise. And I did not expect everybody who
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: was there to be there. So I remember just like
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: bawling my eyes out, being so touched and so again, bittersweet.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, like I don't want to leave,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: but then I'm also going back to New York city
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: to live with my best friend. But like, I want
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: to stay here. So it was like, it was literally
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: something out of a book. Like all of my favorite
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: people were in this one room and he ended up
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: giving me these two going away presents. One of them
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: was the actual bike bell from his roommate's bike. And
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: he basically put it on my finger like a, like
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: an engagement promise ring and said something like, you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: we'll always be together or have each other or something.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: So he, It was quite a spectacle of a going away.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Like everybody who was at that dinner thought like, oh yeah,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: like they're going to do this forever. Like they're the ones,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: like this is it, like this couple is going to
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: make it. So it was quite reassuring that we were
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: going to do this and this was for real and
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: this was forever. When I left, I was very much
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: under the impression of like, we are doing this. We
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: are going to be in a long distance, but we
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: are committed. We're going to be faithful. We're going to
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: be loyal. And we're just going to see this thing
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: out and ride the waves together. So for the first
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: four months, I was really trying to get my life
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: back on track and he was still living his life.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: And the time difference between New York and Sydney was
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: quite hard. So we tried our best with Skype dates,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: with emails. I don't even know if text messages were
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: going through at that point because of our phones and
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: the long distance, but we did our absolute best to,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: you know, stay loyal, stay loving and stay in that relationship.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: as much as we could. He planned to come and
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: visit me in October. So I knew it was just
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: a few weeks or a few months away that I
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: would get to see him again. So there was always
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: something to look forward to. It was like we had
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: a plan. He came over to America and we had
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: an amazing like two or three weeks together. He met
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: all of my family. We traveled the coast of California
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: together in a convertible Mustang, you know, the coast from
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: San Francisco down to L.A. We went on a big
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: whitewater rafting trip. And again, it was like it was
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: just fairy tale. It was like, oh, my God, this
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: is amazing.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: He's the one.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: It's going to happen. Like he's met my family. I
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: met his family. We have amazing holidays together. He's going
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: to move to New York, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: So, again, I left that trip thinking this is it.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Like this is really it.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: And then when he went back home, he had a
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: message from his company saying they would potentially transfer him
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: from the Sydney office to the New York office. So
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: in my head, I was thinking, this is fantastic. We'll
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: just live in New York for a year, however long,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: and then I'll move back to Australia.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: No problem.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: If I have to do the student visa, like I'll
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: just suck it up and do it then. Like, It
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: felt like we finally had a plan. It felt like
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: we finally had a way through. And in my head,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: it was always, oh, he's going to come to New York,
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: no problem.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: But just when you're feeling on top of the world,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: isn't that when the universe always has a funny way
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: of bringing you crashing back down to Earth? Because just
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: a few weeks later....
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: I found out that my mom had stage four cancer.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Once I found out, I said, look, there's absolutely no
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: way that I'm going to be going back to Australia
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: while she's still alive. He was very supportive. He was
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: very kind, very caring. But I could tell that he
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: was pulling back. Every time I wanted to talk about
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: the subject or talk about him moving, he'd always want
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: to change the topic or let's not talk about that
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: right now. I felt like the emails or the messages
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: would get longer apart. I felt like We weren't as
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: present with each other or maybe curious in our conversations.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: I could tell that the energy had shifted. I could
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: tell both of us. I was probably more anxious and
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: scared that I knew that he's really not going to
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: come to New York. And he also knew that I
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: wasn't going to Australia. So again, I think it was
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: just this lack of emotional intelligence, awareness and maturity to
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: just say, look, This is a situation we both know reality,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: but instead we tried to continue on and act like
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: everything was okay and it was just going to be fine.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: But, dear listener, I think you and I both know
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: that things were not going to be fine.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: About three weeks after finding out that my mom had cancer,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I got a message from someone, a random person on Facebook,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: saying that if you think your boyfriend has been faithful,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: think again. It was from somebody I... did not know.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And I knew as soon as I got that message
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: that he cheated on me, but I didn't get a
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: hold of him for almost a day.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: So I had to go to work that day.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Knowing that, well, not knowing for sure, but knowing in
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: my heart of hearts that like I'd just been cheated on,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: that my relationship was pretty much over, but I couldn't
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: get a hold of him himself in Australia because of
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: the time difference. And so I remember, you know, just
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: being in absolute tears and buying two bottles of wine
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: on my way home from work and calling him on
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Skype through my webcam at the time. And just before
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: he even said hello, I just said, did you cheat
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: on me?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And he said, yeah.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: And he said, I didn't think it was a good
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: time because of obviously what I just found out three
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: weeks earlier.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And I said, well, I don't think it's ever a
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: good time to be cheated on.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: But, you know, he ended up kissing a girl at
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: his Christmas work party. We didn't officially end things on
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: that phone call. We were just kind of like, we'll
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: see how things go. And I was in the mindset
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: of like, I could get over this. I can forgive him.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: I can forget. And so we foolishly stayed together. And
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I always like to travel whenever I'm in like a rut.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: And so I went to Costa Rica with my friend
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: for Christmas and New Year's, and we decided not to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: talk for like a week. I think we had like
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: a little bit of a break. And then when I
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: got back, I called him and that was the conversation
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: where he said, I love you, but I'm not in
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: love with you. And then I saw on Facebook that
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: him and this girl had gone to a festival for
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Christmas and New Year's that they already lovey dovey.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Like it was heartbreaking.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I just remember being hysterical and he had given me
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: this this picture of us when I went away that
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: night before.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: And I just remember crying so much.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I smashed the picture frame and I was ripping up
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: the picture. I was just, I was very, very, very hurt.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I threw away everything. And I also felt like there
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: was a part he was like, you're lying. Like you
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: are still in love with me, but it's the distance.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Like I just kept blaming it on the distance. Like
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: if we lived in the same country or the same state,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: like we would be able to do this, like we
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: would be able to work it out. So I just
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: blamed the distance on everything, that it was only the distance,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: that we still loved each other, both of us. And
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: I was convinced in my head and in my soul
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: that he was the one.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Despite everything they'd shared and the feeling of true love,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: the relationship came to an end. Finn had moved on
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: with that girl from the Christmas party. And Michelle unfollowed
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: him on all the socials. No photos, no little glimpses
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: into each other's lives. They had no contact at all. Until.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Through the years, we would have very small email exchanges.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know how or who would have emailed first,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: but it was probably me because I was still convinced
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: that he was the one. I had no problem sending
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: those emails. Because I was not in serious relationships, but
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: I knew he was. And so I also knew I
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: was crossing a line that probably I shouldn't have as well.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: But in my head, I'm like, oh, well, we can
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: be friends, right? Like we're friendly. So I probably would
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: have emailed him a happy birthday or a Merry Christmas
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: or just, hey, how are things going? we would have
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: an email exchange maybe once or twice a year. I
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: would absolutely get butterflies anytime I got an email from him.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: In 2012, my mom passed away. I emailed him and
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: then he emailed me back saying, you know, I'm so
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: sorry for your loss. He was actually going to be
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: in America traveling with his now fiance. And I stupidly
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: was like, we should meet up. which is obviously not cool.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: But of course I threw it out there. And I
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: was actually dating somebody at the time too. And thankfully
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: he was like, no, I don't think that's the right move. Like,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: you know, and I was like, yeah, you're totally right.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Like I, I apologize for even asking, but I had,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I had.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: To throw it out there.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I was absolutely convinced in my heart of hearts that
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: he was my soulmate. He was the one that got
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: away and that all we needed to do was be
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: in the same country and everything would be okay. There
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: was always something inside of me of like, no, I
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: still feel like we're going to get another chance. After
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: my mom passed away, I knew that I needed to
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: leave New York. And I randomly booked a one-way ticket
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: to Hawaii. It was a $ 100 ticket. And I was like,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: going to go to Hawaii. Maybe I'm going to live there.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: And then a friend from Australia was actually visiting New York.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: He was like, hey, Michelle, why don't you come back
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: to Australia? And I was like, no, I can't. I
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: can't get a visa. He's like, oh, well, I work
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: for this travel company. I could easily get you a visa.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: No problem.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: We get people visas all the time. I was like, well,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: hells yeah, I'm in. So I booked my flight to
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: land on Christmas Day. And my visa actually only ended
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: up being good for 90 days.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Instead of a year.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: But I didn't know that until the day before I
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: was arriving. So I had packed up my entire life.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: everything into two suitcases thinking I'm moving to Australia for
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: a year. I'm going to get a visa and I'm
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: going to stay. And this is going to be like
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: my future. And I get to Australia. My visa is
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: only good for 90 days. I ended up being horrible
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: at the job. It was like selling travel packages, hated
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: my life. I was like almost 30 at this point.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: I was sleeping on my friend's couches. I felt like
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: you need to get your shit together. And anyways, I,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: of course, emailed Finn and I said, hey, I'm coming
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: to Australia for a few months. Like, would you want
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: to meet up? And he was like, yeah, sure, let's
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: do it. So we met up for a drink one
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: night and I asked him about the wedding. And he
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: kind of I could tell he didn't want to talk
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: about it, not just because it was me, but because
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: he didn't want to talk about it. And so I
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: already got this sense that like maybe there's trouble in paradise.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: And I also was like, why would he be coming
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: to have, you know, a drink with me?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: If, you know, things were actually that, I don't know.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Nothing happened. We hugged. Good night.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: But of course, I'm persistent. And I emailed him after
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: and I was like, hey, that was great. Can we
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: do it again? And he was like, no, I don't
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: think that's a good idea. And I was like, again,
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: I respect you.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: That's fine. And so it was my birthday.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: And I had just been drinking some champagne with my
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: bestie because she flew over. And we were literally walking
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: in Bondi, the exact spot where I met him right
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: near the Beach Road Hotel. He was standing there. And
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: we bumped into him like by a grace of God.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: And I was going out for drinks with friends that night.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And he knew all my friends because he had met
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: them years before and said, hey, we're going to be
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: hanging out with everybody at this bar. You should come
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: by for a birthday drink. And he was like, OK, yeah,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: I'd love to. So he came by. And of course,
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: it was amazing. And he knew everybody and was great.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: And I just remember us getting in the car, going
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: to another bar. And I was crying because I was like,
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I want to just stay here. Like my life is here.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: And I was so, so gutted that like I had
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: to leave, that it wasn't going to work out with him.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: And we ended up meeting up for coffee one last
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: final time in Bondi, like the day or two before
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I was leaving. And I said something like, will you
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: ever come back to America? And he said, I've always
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: wanted to go to this thing called Burning Man. And
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, interesting. Like, it sounds cool. And
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: that was that. I left Australia in March. I got
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: an email from him on Christmas. And I remember I
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: was living in Los Angeles at the time. And he said,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: you're forever in my heart. He never said that in
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: emails before. And I was like, that's a bit random.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: But what do I do with this? Like, he's with
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: his fiance forever in my heart. Like, That's something new
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: that he's never said before. I feel like something might be,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe again, trouble in paradise. But again, I
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: wrote back and I just, I knew it wasn't going
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: to go anywhere.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Despite the fact Michelle was convinced Finn was her soulmate,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: she had to accept the fact that it was purely
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: in pen pal form now. He had moved on and
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: so did she, until the email she'd been waiting for arrived.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: About a year after leaving Australia, And he said him
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: and his fiance broke up and he wanted to rekindle
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: or reconnect with me. And so I'm looking into that
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: word like rekindle, reconnect.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: This is it. Like this is going to happen. I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: was on cloud nine.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I just went around that day telling everybody that I
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: was moving back to Australia.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I was getting back.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Like I told everybody I manifested it. So I told
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: everybody what was happening.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: A few months later, I saw on Facebook, because we
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: now friended each other again so we could see each
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: other's Facebooks. I saw that he was looking for a
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Burning Man ticket. And I was like, you better not
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: come to my country and not see me. And that's
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: all I said. And all he said was, we have
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: an extra spot in the RV if you want to join.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I was like, hells yeah. And I bought a ticket
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: right then and there for $ 777.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Wow. I think I had about two or three weeks
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: to get outfits and figure out how I was getting there.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I didn't know the people he was going to Burning
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Man with, this guy Levi and this guy Ray. And
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: I was introduced on a Facebook message, but I had
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: no idea who these people were, but I did not care.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I was going anyway.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Now, if you don't know about Burning Man, let me
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: paint you a picture. For one week, in the middle
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: of the Nevada desert, tens of thousands of people come
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: together to build an entire temporary city from scratch. This
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: isn't your typical festival. There are no headlines, no scheduled performances,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and no main stage. Instead, the people who attend create
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: the experience themselves. Huge interactive artworks, performances, elaborate sculptures, art cars, and, well,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: pretty much anything else you could imagine. It's built around
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: radical self-expression, community and self-reliance, working on a culture of
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: gifting rather than buying and selling. And when it's all over,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the entire sand city disappears, with one very important rule,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: leave no trace. So basically, tens of thousands of strangers
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: build their own city in the desert, party in it
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: for a week, and then make it look like they
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: were never there. Welcome to Burning Man. Now, back to
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the story.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: I get to the airport in LA and I realise
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: that we're actually on the same flight because he was
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: coming from Australia. we're on the same flight to San Francisco.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: But I didn't realize that till the day of. And
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: so I went up to the counter and I asked
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: the lady, I was like, hey, me and my friend
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: are flying together. Do you mind if you can put
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: seats together? And she's like, oh, absolutely, honey. I was like,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen him in years. And at this point,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I had seen him, I guess, in like a year
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: and a half or two. And she sat us next
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: to each other. And I just remember seeing him at
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: the airport coming through to the gate. And I'm like,
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: you know, he could have been an angel for all
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: I knew. Like, With his, you know, long hair and
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: his hazel eyes and his tan skin and his white t-shirt.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: I was just like, oh my God, you did this.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: And so we flew to San Francisco. We took the
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: burner bus into Burning Man. And it was both of
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: our first time. So we had no idea what to expect.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: We were meeting his friends there, Ray and Levi. And
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: we first landed at Burning Man. We didn't have bikes
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: at that point. So we were just walking around. And
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: Burning Man is a really, really big place. But Levi
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: actually ended up bumping into us. And he was like, hey,
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: you guys need to come back to RV. You need
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: to have your bikes. You can't get anywhere without bikes.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: So we walked back to the RV and Ray was
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: fixing my bike. He was putting all like the lights on.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: He was making sure everything was OK. And we just
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: started hanging out, all of us. So it was me, Finn,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Levi and Ray. And then there were four other friends
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: of ours in another RV. And we... I thought the
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: whole time, I don't want to be that girl who
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: just talks about relationships, but I kind of wanted to
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: have a chat with Finn, like, hey, like, so what
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: does this mean? Like, are we going to try to
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: get back together? But again, I could tell that he
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: was sort of dodging the whole conversation. And I get
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: it's not really a time and place to have that
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: deep conversation. But I could just tell he didn't really
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: want to talk about it and it wasn't really something
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: he wanted to entertain because he just got out of
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: a serious relationship.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: It might not have been the ideal time or place
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: for a conversation quite this deep, but there was one
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: pretty damning sign that Finn was maybe hoping to get
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: back together or were already back together. The only problem,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: it wasn't landing with Michelle quite the way you might expect.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: He kept calling me his girlfriend.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: And I was like, can you please stop calling me
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: your girlfriend? Because I'm not your girlfriend. Like, yes, I'm
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: a girl. Yes, I'm your friend, but I'm not your girlfriend.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: We haven't talked about that stuff. You don't want to
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: get into that stuff. You just came out of a
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: serious relationship. Please don't tell me I'm your girlfriend. But
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: he kept introducing me as his girlfriend. Anyways, so that
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: kept making me upset. I absolutely wanted to be his girlfriend,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: but I didn't feel like he was at the same
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: place that I was. And so he was just using
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: it very like nonchalant. But to me, it meant something bigger.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: And I guess because I wanted to be so badly,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: it probably triggered me even more. If we were just,
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: you know, friendly and friends, maybe it wouldn't have upset
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: me as much. But I just remember that really getting
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: underneath my skin of like, stop calling me your girlfriend.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Thankfully, she had an ally in all of this. a
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: sounding board of confidants, and somewhat unexpectedly, a newfound great
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: friend in Finn's friend, Ray.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: We had actually bonded around day two or day three
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: because Ray was actually seeing an American girl as well.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: And he was going to meet up with her in
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: San Francisco after. And we had talked about like, how
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: do you do the long distance? Like, how does it work?
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: And he was like, well, we've been trying for the
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: past few years. It doesn't really work, but we've been
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: trying and we're going to Maybe try to give it
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: a go again.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We're going to see.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: So he was actually trying to rekindle things with his
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: American girlfriend. We started to become like the mom and
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: the dad of the group to make sure that like
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: everybody was doing what they needed to do or like
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: having a good time anyways. And I would also then
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: vent to Ray about Finn and be like, oh, this
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: is pissing me off or this is making me upset.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: And I remember one night we were all riding back
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: to the RV and it was dark at night. and
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: my bike chain fell off. And nobody noticed, and not
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: even Finn, and I was really pissed. And when my
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: bike chain fell off, Ray actually came back and helped me.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: And I remember saying to Ray, I was like, where
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: the hell is Finn? Why the hell isn't he here?
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: He should be the one coming back for his girlfriend.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: And he was like, oh, no, that's fine. So anyways,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: me and Ray just kind of confided in each other,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: had really good chats. And I was just really kind
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: of just annoyed and frustrated and over the whole me
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: and Finn thing. He came all this way and I
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: thought this was our magical time to be together. He
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: has come all this way. He's now in my country.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: We're going to have the best time. And that's just
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: not what happened. I just don't want to think about
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: it anymore.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: And I remember... him really, or him and.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: This girl flirting. And I got really upset. And I
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: was trying to hide myself crying in the bedroom of
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: the RV. And of course, Finn noticed. And he was like, hey,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: what's wrong? You know, he tried to comfort me. And
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I was just like, leave me alone. Like, I don't
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: want to talk about it. You know, I just was like,
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: if I could just stop crying, I'll be okay. But
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: then it escalated. And then we took it outside and
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: we started fighting. And I was like, can you please
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: stop calling me your girlfriend? He's like, can't we just be?
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: And I was like, what do you mean just be?
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't know.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: I just remember being really frustrated and it just going
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: in circles. And then somebody came. up to us and
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: were like, hey, this is not what the burn's about. Like,
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: can you guys like get this under control? Because you
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: don't fight a burning man. Finn ended up going to
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: sleep and the camp people were like, hey, can you
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: help us clean up? And so I started helping them
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: clean up. And then Ray came out. And so me
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: and Ray started cleaning up the camp. Ray ended up
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: like cutting his finger really deep. And I remember bandaging
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: his finger up and being like, I love taking care
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: of him in this way. Like it felt, I don't know,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: There was some attraction and I couldn't put my finger
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: on it, but I was still confused because I'm like, wait,
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: but I like Finn, not Ray. Do I like Ray
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: because he's Finn's friend or do I like Ray because
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: he's not available? Maybe I just like emotionally unavailable people
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: like or unavailable people in general. So I was really confused.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I also started to notice that I wanted to be
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: around Ray more. So like I started to feel way
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: more like safe and seen around Ray and I just
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: He just felt a lot easier to be around. We
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: went to Reno after Burning Man, and I was still
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: upset and annoyed by Finn, of course. And I wanted
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: to vent about him. So Ray came with me to
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: the ice vending machine. And I just remember being like,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: I don't deserve to be treated with any disrespect. I
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: deserve to be treated with respect. I deserve to be
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: with someone like you. And I said that straight to
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Ray in his eyes. And I said, someone who would
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: treat me with respect like you. And he just, his
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: eyes started welling up with tears. But we had just
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: gotten back to the door and Finn was on the
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: other side of the door because we were in the
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: hotel room. And we knew that we couldn't talk about it.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: So I was like, okay, his eyes are tearing up.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: This has got to mean something. Anyways, we go back
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: into the hotel. You know, we act like everything's fine.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: And then Finn and I have a few days down
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: in LA where I was living. And... Ray and his
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: girlfriend had a few days together. And then Finn and
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Ray flew back to Sydney.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: So that was that. The manifestation hadn't exactly gone to plan.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: And after all that time together, Michelle was left with
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: more questions than answers. Were they together? Were they not?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Was this the beginning of something again? Or was it
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: finally the end? And the biggest question of all, was
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: she developing feelings for Ray? Michelle had been so certain
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: for so long Finn was her soulmate. But after everything
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: that just happened for the first time, she started to
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: seriously question that.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: When he went back to Sydney and I started to
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: notice that he wasn't really communicating much, I was like,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: that's it. Like the only thing we do have with
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: long distance is communication. And if he can't give me communication,
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: there's absolutely no way in hell that this will ever
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: work or that I want to be in this. Like
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: I saw that he had posted something on Instagram. I'm like, well,
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: he has Internet. He has time, but he's not messaging.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: So I really, truly believe like if he's not that
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: into you, he's not that into you.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Like if somebody wants to make time for somebody, they will.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I think it was just a matter of we didn't
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: have communication that was clear and that was honest, I guess.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: And I just became quite annoyed and frustrated and very
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: much like this isn't going to happen. I actually don't
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: think that we're meant to be together. Like I think
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: even sexually, it wasn't there, that spark. And it just
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: didn't feel like this is the person I want to
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: be with. It didn't feel like that at all.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And while things with Finn were fizzling out, things with
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Ray were unexpectedly doing the opposite.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: We literally just started talking on WhatsApp. I could not
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: tell you what we talked about, but we talked about
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: for hours. He was making time. He was going back
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: to work. He was, you know, had a job. He
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: had a life to go back to. But we both
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: made time to talk to each other and we wanted
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: to talk to each other. And we had so much
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: to talk about. And it was only a week or
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: two after they got back from Sydney that I messaged
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Ray and I said, look, I think I really like you.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that means. I don't know like
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: what to do with it, but I just have to
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: tell you because it's, you know, it's burning me up inside.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: And he was like, look, I don't know if you
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: could tell too, but I feel the same. Let's have
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: a chat. And so we just started chatting. And that
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: is when we had the conversation of like, okay, I'm
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: going to have a conversation now with Finn and say, look,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: whatever did or has happened between you and I, like
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: obviously is no longer going to happen. I also was like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: we've never been friends, me and Finn. So I don't
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: think we should be friends because it's like, what's the point?
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: It was like this come to Jesus moment of like,
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: oh my God, here I am like saying, I don't
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: even want to be friends. Like we were never friends.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: We're not supposed to be friends. And like, we need
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: to cut ties because it's not going to happen. And
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: it was probably also a little liberating and freeing. I
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: remember that conversation. I did get emotional with Finn. We
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: actually had a FaceTime and I told him, but I
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: did not tell him about Ray because me and Ray
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: didn't know what it was. We didn't know if it
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: was going to go anywhere. We didn't know if we
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: really liked each other. We never even, we were in
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: the same room together, but we were never intimate. We
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: never held hands. We never kissed. We never touched. So like,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm going to like you if
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: you come here and we start dating.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: So we had to figure out what that was. After
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: all those years of being completely convinced that he was
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: my person, I thought the conversation, when it finally ended,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: would devastate me.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: And yet it didn't.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: It freed me because I knew that I had my
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: person on the other side.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Was Ray actually her person in real life? Or did
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: the magic only exist over the phone and in the
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: magical mystery of Burning Man?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: He came to visit three months later in November for
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: one week. And the sex was absolutely, it was like
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: the best sex I've ever had in my life. And
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: I was like, is this just because it's, you know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: this fantasy thing? And it wasn't just the sex. It was,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: we just loved hanging out with each other. We had
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: the best time. We would just talk and talk and laugh.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: And enjoyed the same things. We kind of saw eye
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: to eye in so many things, but we were also
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: so different.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Like I'm a Pisces.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: He's a Virgo. He's 10 years older than me. He
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: grew up in a very different country and culture in
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: a way. And so our lives are very different. When
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: he came, we actually went out to Joshua Tree and
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: had a night there, which was super fun and amazing.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: We'd make dinners together.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: I remember us binge watching Making of a Murderer. We'd
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: go down to the Santa Monica beach and And just
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: hang out.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: But I remember him leaving.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: But when he left, because we had so much communication
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: and when he left in November, for some reason, I
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: didn't feel anxious or worried because I knew we just
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: we were going to make something happen and it was
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: going to work out. Like I just felt again so anxious.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: safe and seen that whatever was going to happen, it
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: was going to be okay.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Could it be? Was Ray really her person? Once they'd
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: figured out that that's certainly what it felt like, things
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: moved pretty quickly.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: We started joking around about getting married because we didn't
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: know how we would be together as far as a visa.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: And I said, I'm happy to move to Australia because
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: I know moving to America is really hard. And so
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: we talked about visas and And he ended up talking
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: to an immigration lawyer and he said, yeah, look, getting
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: married is, you know, if it's really serious and this
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: is it, like that's going to be one of your
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: best ways to immigrate here. And so my best friend
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: at the time, he was going to see Britney Spears
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: in concert in Vegas on Christmas.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And L.A.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Is only about four hours from Vegas. So Ray was
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: flying into L.A. for Christmas. So he landed on Christmas Day.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: We went down to the beach. He proposed with his
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: grandmother's ring. We then drove to Vegas and I wanted
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: to get married on a Sunday because it's, you know,
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: God's day. So on December 27th, 2015, We were just
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: at the desk of our hotel. And I said, hey,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: can you get married anywhere around here? And they were like, oh, yeah,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: the Flamingo Garden Chapel next door does a really lovely wedding.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: No Elvis or anything. And so we went over. It
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: was about 10 or 11 in the morning. And I said, hey,
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: do you have any slots for, you know, getting married?
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: And like, yeah, we've got a 430 appointment. It's our
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: last one and only one today if you want it.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: And I was like, yep, let's do it. We had
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: to go down to get a marriage certificate. You have
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: to go downtown to City Hall. We went down to
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: City Hall. We went back to the hotel. We showered,
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: got in the Uber, went to the chapel and we
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: got married.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: And my best friend walked me down the aisle.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I know what you're thinking. That seems quick. And yeah,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: it was. Just four months after they first met and
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: having now only spent one more week together in person,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Michelle and Ray were married. Now, she doesn't live with
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: her head completely in the clouds. Of course, she had
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: a few little doubts along the way, but ultimately it
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: came down to that one thing we've all heard so
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: many times, when you know, you know.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: Before we drove to Vegas, there were definitely points, right
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: before he landed for Christmas, there were points of being like, Michelle,
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: are you really doing this?
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Like, is this crazy? Oh my God.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: Like there'd be points of like, but I don't even
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: have a wedding dress, but like, and I never really
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: wanted a wedding, but then I started to question, like,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: but you want a nice wedding?
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Like, don't you want this? Don't you want that? Don't you?
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: And like then I started to question the whole thing
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: of like, maybe this is too fast. Maybe I'm not
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: doing the right thing. But at the same time, that
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: voice was quite low. The louder voice was like, no, Michelle.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: This is the right thing. Like, you know yourself, you
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: know your body, you know how you feel. And it
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: never felt crazy or over the top. It felt very cool,
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: calm and collected and like this is the way it
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: was supposed to happen. And like, yeah, there were highs
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: of like, oh, my God, what did we just do?
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: I remember telling friends who were in Los Angeles after.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: We got married.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: They had no idea we were getting married. And we
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: were like, so we just got married. And they're like,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: what the what? And I could just see on their face,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: like the shock, the disbelief. And like, are you effing serious? Like,
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: do you know what you just did? Like, what is
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: going on? So I could see that a lot of
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: people were. Probably not as convinced as we were, but
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: the whole time we were like, nah, this is it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: But we just knew that there was not many other
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: options if we wanted to be together and we really
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: wanted to be together.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: But here we were again with two people very much
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: in love, but on opposite sides of the world. So
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: now they had to figure out how they were going
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: to move to Australia and actually build a life together.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: And of course, break the news to Finn.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Ray was going to be at a wedding with him,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: a mutual friend's wedding. And so Ray actually had that
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: conversation with him. And Finn actually took it really well
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: at first. I think once he kind of told him that, like,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: I think their friendship obviously was never going to be
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: where it was going to be. It was just we
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: had also mutual friends. So going to mutual friends gatherings,
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: it got a little awkward at some points because Finn
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: would have a new girlfriend. I think you know, that
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: girlfriend probably didn't like me very much. And there were
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: just maybe different sides of the story. I think maybe
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: Finn thinks I cheated on him with Ray at Burning Man,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: which I know never happened. Ray knows it never happened.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: But I think maybe he thinks that. I think Finn
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: is in a good place with it. I don't know.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: We obviously don't speak because Ray and Finn didn't continue
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: to be friends. They're not like angry or disrespectful to
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: each other, but they're not friends. Six months later, I
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: moved to Australia. We lived in Sydney for, I think,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: a year. I did my yoga teacher training there. We
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: moved to, well, first we moved to the Gold Coast
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: for a year. Then we were up in Brisbane from 2018.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: My husband, Ray, actually had a stroke, which was very scary. Yeah,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: put him in the hospital. He couldn't walk. He couldn't talk.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: It was very scary. He was only 42 years old, 2018.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: And so that was a big sort of just wake
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: up call, but happy and healthy. Nothing long-term affected him.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: He takes a little baby aspirin every day because he
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: had a little hole in his heart that he got
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: cleared up. And yeah, we have our beautiful dog. She's
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: a miniature bull terrier and no kiddos. We went back
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: to Burning Man last year for a 10-year anniversary and
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: we loved it so much. We went back this year
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: and we actually have the coordinates of Burning Man tattooed
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: on our arms And we just, yeah, we love each other.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: We have so much fun and just building, yeah, a
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: beautiful life together.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Not every X story ends there. Sometimes it's a love story.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: And Michelle and Raze has been going strong for 11
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: years now. Just as that bike bell was and still
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: is a defining reminder of the strange ways fate can work,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: the irony of how their story came to be certainly
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: isn't lost on Michelle.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: The fact that me and Finn's relationship was so long
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: and it was psychologically like not warfare, but it was just,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: it was, it was a lot and it felt very
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: heavy and it felt very long and it felt very
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: confusing at times and it felt very hard. I think
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: that's the thing. It actually felt like I was always
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: going up against a wall. It felt hard when things
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: with Ray, everything was just light and easy. I'm not
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: saying that it's been rainbows and puppies for 11 fucking years, but,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: that we've never had to work on anything or come
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: up against walls. But I always say to people, like,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: the hardest thing of being together should not be, do
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I want to be with this person? The hard parts
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: are the finances, are the communication, are the in-laws, are
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: the debts, are the mortgage. Like, those are the things
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: that are hard. The idea and the feeling of wanting
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: to be with somebody, that should.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Never, ever be the hard part. If that's hard, that's
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: a reason.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: I always say like if something, if you can't find
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: peace in something, it's not meant for you. The fact
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: that things did happen so quickly with Ray and I
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean it wasn't any less deep or the love
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: wasn't as deep. It just means that it was meant
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: to be. And I do think that things can be
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: light and easy. They don't have to be a struggle
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: all the time. And if it is a struggle, that's
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: probably the universe telling you something. I truly do believe
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: that the sole reason of meeting Finn was to meet Ray.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: He was like the bridge. And that doesn't discredit our relationship.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: It doesn't dumb it down in any way. It doesn't
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: mean that what we had wasn't real. Nothing like that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: But I do believe that everything happens for a reason.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: And you meet some people so that you can meet
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: other people. I'm sure you have plenty of people in
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: your life that you met through friends or other people.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: And you don't talk to those people anymore, but you
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: talk to them. And so, you know, this happens in
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: every sort of type of relationship. But yeah, it's not
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: to say that the other relationship wasn't worthy of the
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: depth and the love. It just means that the universe
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: has a funny way of working itself out.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Everyone has an ex is a minty media production and
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: proudly part of the mamma mia network This interview was
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: conducted and episode narrated by me, Georgia Love, and written
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: and produced by Linda Scott. If you have a story
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: to share, email us at everyonehasanex at mintymedia.com.au. You can
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: support the show by following in your favourite podcast app,
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: share it with a friend and leave a five-star rating
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: and review. We'll see you for the next episode.