Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 277. LIVE! from Phoenix: Build Better Storytelling - Dulari Gandhi, Kimberly O'Neil, Becky Straw, and Cheryl Miller Houser

Transcript

277. LIVE! from Phoenix: Build Better Storytelling - Dulari Gandhi, Kimberly O'Neil, Becky Straw, and Cheryl Miller Houser · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Today's episode is sponsored by feather feather provides digital marketing tools and strategies for nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, including the Humane Society of North Central Florida. Stick around for the break to hear how feather power their $300 digital ad campaign that raised nearly$6,000 In just one day. Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:24
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:42
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:52
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Happy Friday, Becky, what's up? Hey, John,
• 0:57
  Becky Endicott: good to see you.
• 0:57
  Becky Endicott: Thanks for coming back, everybody. We're glad you're here.
• 1:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, we are so excited. We just got back from the responsive nonprofit Summit, presented by virtuous. And guys, we've got like the fullest hearts from that experience. I gotta tell you, Ash, the people that converge the topics that were covered, and just the good vibes were so high, that we're like, how can we bring this to the podcast, because, you know, there was more than 2000 people that joined us. But we want to really lift these conversations, because the stuff that was talked about, we believe is game changing and meets the moment.
• 1:28
  Jonathan McCoy: And so we're calling this little series called build back better.
• 1:31
  Jonathan McCoy: And we're going to uncover over the next couple of weeks how to build a better culture, how to build better boards, how to build better storytelling, and how to tap into giving circles, which is this really beautiful way that philanthropy and community are converging. The people that we've curated today are here for a really special reason. They're really top of their craft, they are very evolved very incredible human beings. And what they're going to share today, I really think is going to push us all to show up better in the way that we storytelling a better way. So okay, you want to see us up?
• 1:59
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, I got to do some town setting here is Chief storyteller, which I totally made up that title when we started our company, we really believe that storytelling is the heartbeat of connection.
• 2:08
  Becky Endicott: And there's been a really big boom, I feel like that we've seen specifically in the last three to five years in the nonprofit sector about how do we storyteller? How do we get to the heart of what our missions are about? Who are the people?
• 2:21
  Becky Endicott: Today, we're kind of just going to ratchet that up just a little bit more and say, how do we show up ethically, we are building better storytelling today. And it's really about dignity. And it's about honoring the person whose story and voice that we're amplifying within our networks.
• 2:39
  Becky Endicott: And there's a lot of incredible ways to do that we've brought the experts on. And so I want to start to bring them up. And the first one I want to introduce is the rock star Kimberly O'Neill.
• 2:50
  Becky Endicott: Kimberly is the founder of the giving blueprint. And I remember we met Kimberly, and we were basically on the floor after we interviewed her. She is such a rock star. She is the youngest African American female in the US to ever be a city manager.
• 3:04
  Becky Endicott: She learned so much about systems and structures. And she has such a heart for the tiny nonprofit who's trying to get up and fail for what's up. And she's based out of Plano, I got to give a little shout out to this cost studio that she created which brings in training and resources for nonprofits who are really trying to get their nonprofit and their mission off the ground. She is the ultimate hype girl for these nonprofits.
• 3:31
  Becky Endicott: Kim, thanks for joining us.
• 3:33
  Jonathan McCoy: So good to see you. And we're also so delighted to have Cheryl Miller Hauser in the house. She is one of our favorite New Yorkers. She is a documentary filmmaker, you gotta check out generation startup, incredible film, but she created this agency called Creative breed. And we knew we were kindred spirits. The first time we ever talked to Cheryl because not only is she an amazing mother, she's an amazing human being. But she also the way that she taught storytellers and teaches storytelling is paradigm shifting. And we actually were just bragging and talking about it at the last session. So definitely lean in there and lean into all of her work. She's a featured guest at South by Southwest and all these places.
• 4:08
  Jonathan McCoy: So we're so delighted to see Cheryl today. Cheryl in the house. Good to see you.
• 4:12
  Cheryl Miller Houser: Thank you for having me. Delighted to be here.
• 4:15
  Becky Endicott: Oh, Cheryl, good to see you. Okay, well, I'm going to introduce you to the much cooler Becky of this panel, Becky straw. She's the co founder of the adventure project coming to us from New Jersey.
• 4:25
  Becky Endicott: Hey, Becky. And this was another one of those interviews where we met Becky and we instantly asked her to be our best friend because what she is doing to empower entrepreneurs around the world with the InVenture project. I mean, we're talking about in India, and Kenya and Malawi, I mean, Haiti, the adventure project goes in and they actually empower the people living within these communities through and we're gonna dive into this ethical storytelling to be the people who are fueling economic development for their own people. And so Even though they've brought together 10,000 people to help to create 10,000 jobs, it's impacted more than 2 million people around the world.
• 5:07
  Becky Endicott: Becky didn't come in and say we have all the answers. They went in, listened and built an organization around listening and empowering your hero, Becky straw and always the much cooler Becky.
• 5:20
  Jonathan McCoy: And hey, good to see everybody to Laurie Gandhi.
• 5:23
  Jonathan McCoy: She's our fourth panelist Dulari she is like our sister, she we like to sing her name to the tune of Delilah also. So that may be coming. Let's do it, you got to do it. But so Dulari is just this incredible human. She has been in the foundation space, she has worked on the inside she have taught us so much about grant making and just the partnerships that you can have. And threading storytelling is at the core of that because she is a storyteller. Through de Gandhi communications. It's this incredible firm, she casually works with, you know, Starbucks and other huge clients to help them really nail their storytelling. But at the core, she is so involved in lots of different organizations. But we got connected through the Austin yp for nonprofits. And that has been one of her heartbeats, but we just love her. She's based in Austin. So delighted that you're here to Laurie, good to see you.
• 6:06
  Jonathan McCoy: Thank you. So you want to kick off?
• 6:09
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, let's do this. So I really want to talk first, I want to make sure that everybody's unmuted. So you can jump in here. And we want to start with Cheryl. I mean, Cheryl, multiple speaker at South by Southwest Cheryl knows her game was storytelling. And I want to talk about how can organizations begin to craft their organization storytelling, and we we're not just talking about, you know, the basics, we want to talk about how do we leverage empathy? How do we create the arc that we referenced in our last session, start us at the beginning and kind of set the tone for us?
• 6:43
  Cheryl Miller Houser: Sure. And again, I'm really honored to be here with you, too. And Julie, and these great panelists, so thank you, um, I would just ask everyone who's here to think about stories that move you. So whether you're on your social media, or you get a newsletter, or in the newspaper, or even when you turn on Netflix, like what, what moves you engages you. And so when you do your own storytelling to think about those qualities, and try to replicate them, and I geek out on neurobiology and our physiology, and so I love looking at studies that scientists have done in the lab that show us the I mean, Becky's absolutely right? Storytelling, is the heartbeat of connection.
• 7:28
  Cheryl Miller Houser: And stories are told well, they can actually change our neurobiology or our physiology, and ignite certain hormones in us until I've come up with a storytelling framework. That's really simple and three steps.
• 7:44
  Cheryl Miller Houser: And the first is, and if if nonprofits follow these three steps, then you can have all the elements that the scientists have discovered are the powerful drivers for us to change people's attitudes, and change their behavior. So one is to be human, tell stories about people who are relatable, and bring your audience and whether you know, I do mostly video, but this can be across any platform.
• 8:12
  Cheryl Miller Houser: So tell a story about someone we care about. And then bring your audience into an emotional journey through that person. And we can achieve something called Narrative transportation, where you actually go on that emotional journey through someone. This is how we activate oxytocin, which is the love hormone. So make people fall in love with your organization. And it's also a wonderful way to really capture a lived experience. So if you're a nonprofit that works with children and families and trying to keep families intact, because that's so important, and not have them end up in the foster care system. One way to approach your storytelling is to give lots of stats and give lots of information about the importance of keeping families intact, and what happens when you don't, and people are going to shut down immediately people take in information 19 times better when it's in service to a narrative story. I mean, tap into that full range of human experience, and help people go on that emotional journey by tapping into our shared humanity. The second thing is to craft your story in a way that grabs and holds people's attention. And this can activate cortisol and dopamine, these very powerful hormones. And the way to do that is by crafting a story in using struggle and triumph, which is the classic storytelling structure of you know, most stories, most movies most so and it's also a way to show people in their full range of yes, they're having challenges and they're struggling but also, they're resilient. They have dignity they and also to show that your organization is coming in to empower them not to save them, but to empower them and enable them to achieve their best. And then the third is to end on a powerful call to action and a call to action that's much bigger than just donate to us.
• 10:08
  Cheryl Miller Houser: Because if you've taken people on that emotional journey through people, you've moved them deeply, you've opened their eyes, you've changed their attitudes, then you can end on a call to action that really feeds your larger mission. And if you have moved them, they aren't going to donate to you they are going to do but you can actually use storytelling then to drive action bigger than just supporting your organization action around what matters to you. So that's my framework, it works for, for for profits, also, I mean, this is just basic, good storytelling period.
• 10:43
  Jonathan McCoy: What a beautiful thing. And that's truly why we wanted to lift that in our last session, because I think any arc any kind of storytelling, if you apply that arc, you do just engage at a different level. So I want to dive deep, and you brought up dignity. And I think that that's where we really want to ground this conversation right off the bat. And talking about inclusive narratives. I mean, the words we use hold a lot of weight, and especially, you know, those many of you on the call today are inside a nonprofit. And we're dealing with really sensitive issues, we're dealing with people maybe at the most traumatic part of their life. And so the way we show up, and the way that we see people is really paramount. It's really our tangible expression of our mission. So I want to kick it to you, Kimberly, to kind of set the tone on this inclusive narrative. I know when you came on the podcast you like had us in tears to like thank you just love to kick it to you and get you to chime in here.
• 11:30
  Kimberly O'Neil: Thank you, I'm so I'm so glad to be with everybody. Today. It's been a long time since I've been on a panel to actually just share a thought with a number of people.
• 11:39
  Kimberly O'Neil: But I think when we're talking, I just want to kind of just build on what Cheryl has provided. One of the things that's really important when we're telling stories of communities, is that we understand the community, we understand what's culturally relevant in the community that we're paying. And we're honoring and respecting the community, the worst thing that we can do is share stories and trigger trauma. And I think a lot of times when we hear, as Cheryl was saying, you know, to share stories share those relatable stories, they don't have to be the darkest, and the deepest places of hurt. And we need to temper that. So that we are not creating a narrative for the community. That's false, a narrative to the for the community that's not relevant.
• 12:30
  Kimberly O'Neil: And one that removes, we're not sharing narratives that remove the dignity of the people, the places and the things that we're trying to honor through our work, we have to remember, as social impact professionals, that the work and the words and the nomenclature that we use to push out into the community is the way that the community receives it. And we have to own and understand our power in doing that. Sometimes we get so caught up in the hype of fundraising, raise money, donate now that we'll do any and everything possible to get to that point. And I was recently and I want to share this example. I was recently having a discussion with someone that was sharing about your organization.
• 13:19
  Kimberly O'Neil: And in that organization, they said during a gala, that one of the children in the room, his personal story was being shared, he had no idea that his personal story was being shared. So while he, while he's walking around, engaging with his peers in the program, and serving and engaging with people, what happened was his life story was being used as an example, to raise money and further the narrative of the organization, not realizing the founders and the executives of the organization, not realizing how devastating the embarrassing that was for him in that moment.
• 14:02
  Kimberly O'Neil: So as we're sharing narratives, as we want to be ethical about our approach, remember to put the people first and the community first, and the work that we're doing and then build from that. So we're not triggering and forcing people to talk about something that they're not ready and prepared to talk about. And that should be their responsibility. And they are right to do it in that way.
• 14:25
  Becky Endicott: Okay, Kimberly, right out of the gate with an incredible story of what not to do. And I really appreciate you sharing that example because I think we could probably all go back into the recesses of our minds. And I mean, I think of missteps that I've probably made when we haven't asked the right question that we're just so hard wired and hard nosed to just put our heads down and accomplish all the tasks. I'm sure that was one task out of about 2000 to you know, get that event up and going but we can not be in the velocity You have the movement that we don't pause ourselves to ask these very important questions. And then I look at somebody like Becky straw over the adventure project. Sorry, Becky, I hope this isn't embarrassing, you can take yourself off video. But Becky, you know, goes in. And she takes somebody like Esther havens who is like my goals of photography, who goes in and has everybody in their villages in Africa go and put their most beautiful outfit on. And they go out and they share these joyous photos of people who are coming out and living their best lives. They're smiling, they're with their families, and the joy that we're triggering, rather than the pain that we're triggering is something that we really need to be pouring into for storytelling. So I give Becky some shout out for that. But I kind of want to pause for a second. And I want to kick this maybe to Dulari or anybody on the panel here. I want somebody to define ethical storytelling, because I think we probably have a lot of people in the room that says what is the difference between normal storytelling and me putting somebody's story out into our community and maybe their lived experience? And how do we look at it through the bent of an ethical lens to Laurie or anyone, if you want to take that on kick it to the group?
• 16:47
  Dulari Gandhi: I'm happy to I think, you know, and that's something that is so important for us to think about, right? We are here to evangelize, and a bit about ethical storytelling and how we all need to do it.
• 16:55
  Dulari Gandhi: But at its heart, what ethical storytelling is, is that it centers the person that is most benefiting from the programs of your nonprofit, right? In this instance, when we're talking about ethical storytelling in the nonprofit space. So the people that you're serving are when we think of it from that perspective, over serving these folks that's really embedded in white savior ism in a way that is really hard to then disentangle from your storytelling. If you're always viewing your beneficiaries from that lens, what ethical storytelling does is it centers those folks. And I think it's always good to remember that our nonprofits don't exist unless we're working towards helping folks that their stories become the center of what your organization is all about. So when we think about ethical storytelling, it centers the person who is what we have traditionally called beneficiaries, or folks who are on the receiving end of programming. And we're using those voices to talk about the work that your organization does.
• 17:51
  Cheryl Miller Houser: And I found that when you do that, people, those people you're featuring, they feel seen, and they feel heard in such a powerful way that in and of itself is so empowering, and bring such dignity. But again, it's really important to let them show up in their voice and let them be themselves and always to make sure you have their consent to tell their story or share their story. Wow.
• 18:18
  Kimberly O'Neil: And I'll just add in this time, where we're utilizing the term equity over and over and over again. And sometimes I think we misuse the term equity when we're when we're telling stories or trying to share narrative. But if we're really focused on equitable practices, and we're practitioners of the work, it also means that there's an opportunity right then and there to ensure that every person, every board member, every employee, every volunteer understands the language that should and should not be used. I think it's an opportunity for nonprofits to have some sort of internal training, service training, where you utilize language, you talk about descriptions, so that everyone is clear on what can and cannot, not will and won't, can and cannot be shared. And when we're talking about our constituents, our program participants and those that we serve, that whatever the highest standard is, that's the standard that we should be striving to reach. And it should be that standard that we're striving to reach each and every day. And when terms change, it's important that we educate people on why. And if people are not willing to participate and understand the importance, we need to rethink what they mean to the community of practitioners in the organizations that were leading and serving.
• 19:50
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, preach, Kimberly, this is so good. And I think we have to step into bravery as leaders. I mean, it's gonna be a little uncomfortable.
• 19:56
  Jonathan McCoy: It's gonna feel as we navigate this, but we've got to have these conversations. And I think everything comes back to centering the community like you lead us into because we need to be seeking that out and to, to really display our mission in every aspect of our mission. I keep coming back to that. Okay, Becky, I want to kick it to you.
• 20:15
  Jonathan McCoy: I want to hear you know, you have this global organization, your storytelling all the time.
• 20:18
  Jonathan McCoy: How do you bake this ethical storytelling into the way that you stories help because you do deal with a lot of heartbreak, but you also deal with a ton of hope and a ton of empowerment?
• 20:28
  Jonathan McCoy: How do you do that from an organization standpoint?
• 20:32
  Becky Straw: Yeah, you know, and I think it's something that is volved over the years of doing this, you mentioned Becky, that story of a woman who just asked, Do you mind if I change my clothes into my Sunday dress.
• 20:40
  Becky Straw: And we said, of course, you know, letting her take the time to shape the narrative that she wanted displayed. As we talked to her about, she was a farmer.
• 20:52
  Becky Straw: And she was talking about how she had improved her life because of access to irrigation.
• 20:55
  Becky Straw: But some of the tips, practical tips we've learned is, there's great apps on your phone to do releases and photo releases to make sure you first sit down with that person and say, Here's how your story is going to be used. Here's how we want to, you know, interview you, this is why we want to tell your story. Are you comfortable with that? Are you comfortable with us taking pictures of you of your kids?
• 21:22
  Becky Straw: How would you feel, you know, and stepping into their shoes or saying, What if a stranger came into my town? Would I want them taking pictures of my kids?
• 21:29
  Becky Straw: Without asking? Probably not, you know, but if I sat with them and listened and really wanted to hear their story, I think that's what really warms people up to feeling comfortable. I love what everyone said. And I think acting as if if we're journalists, I think so often we like to just say, Oh, well, we're raising money. And so this is important. But really what I mean by journalistic integrity, I mean, it's like fact checking, making sure what they said is correct, recording the interview so that you get the quotes, right, and really asking open ended questions, so that the story is filled in, in their own voice. I think that's so important. One of the best experiences I witnessed was, I was early on at Charity Water.
• 22:13
  Becky Straw: And Nick Kristof shared our story the first year. And what he did was he did a phone interview with Scott Harrison, and then actually emailed the article before it went to press and said, Can you just validate these points, and there was a few things that were just tweaked. But just having that journalistic integrity to fact check was so critical for how we share that story. So for us, that means we told our holiday giving story about a woman named Charlotte, who is an incredible entrepreneur in Kenya. And I interviewed her then I sent her the story and said, Could you just approve what we're going to say about you? Because we want to make sure we're doing it correctly.
• 22:56
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, this episode is presented by virtuous and they just happen to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why.
• 23:00
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than a nonprofit CRM.
• 23:16
  Jonathan McCoy: Virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys, and by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. Sounds like virtuous, maybe a fit for your organization? Learn more today and virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.
• 23:45
  Becky Endicott: Hey, friends, are you ready to take your digital engagement to the next level, but kind of feel stuck about where to start? Let us introduce you to feather feathers and amazing tech startup focused on making nonprofit outreach more impactful by connecting you to your audience wherever they are online, from fundraising to program awareness, they've got you covered. And rather than telling you we just wanted to show you for years, the Humane Society of North Central Florida has participated in a local online giving day called the amazing give. It's a competitive landscape for donations. So in 2021, the Humane Society knew they needed to stand out in order to maximize donations for$300 in ad spend their retargeting ads brought 119 visitors to their amazing gift donation page and generated nearly $6,000 in donations in just one day. With feather a small amount of ad spend can go a long way. Learn more about their solutions for nonprofits@feather.co That's feather without the last e.co Now let's get back to this amazing conversation. Okay, that is next level Becky goals right there. You can see why we love Becky so much. Those were such practical tips. And I feel the dignity and that and it really comes back to John like something we've been saying and seeing through our podcast over the last like 20 months, which is this concept of CO building.
• 25:04
  Becky Endicott: And we cannot work in silos any longer within our work. We really need to lock arms with the people we're serving with the people who are amplifying our mission and we're co building we're checking in that in itself is an ethical checkpoint. That honestly feels better when we walk through through our work in this way.
• 25:28
  Becky Endicott: And the flip side of that I think that's on the positive end is you get a rabid fan out of that. You get somebody who's going to amplify it. I, Kim, to your point about this, this young man, what an opportunity missed to not have him talk about the pride of sharing his story within his network, that could have been such an amplifier for that mission that could have made a lifelong rabid fan out of him. rabid fans are our word for those passionate volunteers that we have in our midst. So love those examples.
• 25:58
  Becky Endicott: We're getting a lot of amazing questions here in the community.
• 26:01
  Becky Endicott: And I want to address those Dulari before we come back to you, but aerials we Ariel Good to see you, again, asked this incredible question. And to me, it's kind of the elephant in the room. And it's how do you shift donor thinking as well about this issue, for example, unfortunately, placing the story and the problem frame gets people to give dissent despite the disempowerment of this frame, for those being helped.
• 26:25
  Becky Endicott: Who would like to take that one?
• 26:29
  Kimberly O'Neil: So I'll I'll start off a little bit, because I think that is a big challenge for public charities who rely on public donor dollars, and especially organizations that may have large funders and a significant amount of their money may be coming from a few places. And so how they choose to share their narrative at a lot, a lot of times, it's based on a philanthropic view versus a community view. And I think it is important that we educate our donors as well. I have stories for everything. However, it isn't, I have noticed that donors will begin to shift a lot of times we're afraid to tell donors something other than what they're used to hearing what we think they want to hear. Donors actually don't want to be wrong.
• 27:22
  Kimberly O'Neil: Donors do not want to look as if they are not knowledgeable about what's going on. And it may not be all of them, but many of them that I have come across when we do educate them. And Becky and John, you remember me speaking about it is about understanding the cultural relevancy, I don't do a simulation. And so if we're framing narratives, where it feels like we're asking people or positioning community to assimilate into a culture that's not theirs, we're stripping something away. And I definitely think it's important to be able to do that. We had a donor in the community that randomly said in front of a young lady, you don't have children, do you ordain I'm sorry, you're not pregnant, are you? And she was a teenager? And she said, No, he said, good. It'll ruin your life. While she was a new mom, right. And so there was a huge discussion on how to address it, you address it with the donor, you let him know. And he was a friend within the community. So I feel this is a trusted person we could share that with. But this was also an opportunity for us to share with donors you never know. And our environment, you never know who we have working, who we have serving, who's here to listen, who's here to learn, you don't know who's working for us, you don't know who you might be offending. But in this moment, we serve children first, we serve children first. And that is our priority. And so I think it is important, again, the same way we do board members the same way we do staff the same way we do volunteers, we have to educate our donors as well. Nothing is going to change his we're afraid to if we're afraid to own the responsibility and protecting the communities that we're serving. That is the important part of our work. Our missions come first mission first mission forward, that's all I ever say.
• 29:19
  Kimberly O'Neil: And if we focus on mission, first mission forward, then we find the solutions. And we find the opportunities to fill in those gaps, where people may be speaking incorrectly about who we're serving, where people may be utilizing terms that are offensive. If people are using incorrect information, we had an organization that is area where a grant writer actually called young women, teenagers who were involved in human trafficking prostitutes. And so when we have people that are sharing these narratives on our behalf, and we're not correcting them, then that means the narrative continues in a way that actually is harmful to the work that we're doing. We need more assistance, and our organizations and we have to correct people, including our donors on the right way to describe our challenges. And I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about our problems, right. We have to address problems but there is a way to talk about the need and the overall narrative and the framework of our work going forward. But we can't be afraid to share the problem that how we frame it is more important.
• 30:28
  Cheryl Miller Houser: When Andrew Yang was running for president. He came to me early on and said he wanted me to make something that would capture him as humanity and also help him speak to communities or demographics, he wasn't reaching. And I did a piece through Joe Lamarr story. I mean, first of all, he looked like a gangster which gets to again, can what you were saying about labeling people. When people saw Joe Lamar at first on camera, everyone always thinks gangster. And so that people in Hollywood when he was, you know, in movies, they kept casting him as a gangster, which is why he stopped, like making movies. But anyway, through this piece, I mean, at the end of even the one minute video, the comments were the Joe was a stereotype Slayer, like they'll never look at someone, again, who looks like Joe, they'll never bring that same lens of bias towards someone who looks like Joe again. So again, I think that even in the stories we tell and show people in their full humanity, it is the opportunity to break down bias,
• 31:24
  Kimberly O'Neil: can I just add one tail into that because I, I would feel bad if I didn't use, you said that Joel Lamar stopped, right, he stopped something he was interested in doing because of perception.
• 31:36
  Kimberly O'Neil: When we don't change narrative, when we don't own that responsibility, we are potentially impacting people's economic livelihoods, and what they may go after what limits and boundaries they may place on themselves. So everything that we do trickles down to the people in the communities. And that's why they have to stay at the center. Because when we put when we allow these narratives to just continue, what we're doing is placing limitations on the very work and the impact of the work that we're doing on a day to day basis.
• 32:15
  Jonathan McCoy: And Kim, you know, when you were on the our podcast, I remember you really centered us on the term of at risk. And it was the really the first time admittedly, I'd thought about what that could do by someone being called at risk.
• 32:28
  Jonathan McCoy: And if you're centered on serving the child, and that's your mission, the stories we tell live on, especially in today's world forever. And what does that do to his economic future to his personal future to all of that. And so I think as these comments, I just think we're threading this together, that it really, really matters.
• 32:42
  Jonathan McCoy: I know, if you came in thinking this was a marketing talk. It's like the opposite of that. This is like a mission talk. And so I wanted to kick it to Dulari.
• 32:50
  Jonathan McCoy: Because now that we've kind of like, dipped our toe into ethical storytelling, let's talk about activation, you know, what are how should we be sharing these stories? You know, what do we do next? And you just came out of this incredible LinkedIn incubator, too. So I think I'd love to just hear from your experience, because you're such a brilliant mind.
• 33:08
  Dulari Gandhi: Goodness. Well, thank you. So yeah, I really love talking about the implementation piece. Right. And I think probably Hopefully, most of the people that are listening to this session and that are activated here are already have the mindset that yes, ethical storytelling is the way that we want to go. But then what right like how do we talk to our teams internally to Kim's point earlier around? Are we making sure we're training folks to talk about the way our we do our work in a consistent way? So the first thing that I want to share is around process, right. And it's this is I love process, I love thinking about organizing ourselves around process. And I know all of you are building editorial calendars every year, right? In your nonprofit organizations, right? And if you're not, yes, you should be.
• 33:48
  Dulari Gandhi: But traditionally, when we build our editorial calendars, we already have a really strong sense of the stories we want to tell, right? We think about all the pillars of our work, and we say these are the exact stories that I want. And I can match make a person that we serve that will tell that story for us. And I think when we're doing ethical storytelling, we have to throw all of that out the window, right? That can't be the way we approach it anymore. And instead, we need to focus on what we can focus on, which is our work, our programming, the pillars of our work. And then the hard work becomes gathering those stories and making those and and building the ethical storytelling from the point of view of you have these amazing stories. You have this storytelling that's coming from somebody who has the experience.
• 34:31
  Dulari Gandhi: And now how do you make that work to tell your organization story, it is not incumbent on the person that is receiving services to tell your organization story. It's our job to tell our organization stories based on the examples that we get from people in the field.
• 34:44
  Dulari Gandhi: Right. And so I think once you have the story, it's important to remember, yes, we're matchmaking to our pillars. Yes, we're matchmaking to the programs. But that one story can go a really long way. And I find over and over again with our clients that they find themselves focused on the number of stories that they can get, which again, actually brings us a little bit towards unethical storytelling, because you're talking about quantity versus quality, right? And so what we really want to think about is thinking about how we can take one story and then match our own needs as an organization to tell that story in multiple different ways. So that long form story can look as a blog, you pull quotes that can be used in social media and as sidebars in your annual report, summaries can be overlaid on video. And you can take advantage of tools like Canva that slice and dice these stories in lots of different ways, from graphics to social media to formal PowerPoint slides. If, and this is the part that really seems difficult, because it requires us to creatively think about one story in lots of different ways, but it actually builds capacity and saves you time in the long run in a nonprofit organization, right, because we're talking about taking one story, really digging in, in it from an ethical storytelling point of view to what that person's story is, what their trajectory is, and then splitting it across your channels. And so every time you have a story, I think it's really important to think about all the ways you can create those pieces. And it will go a long way, when you're putting together larger campaigns, because you're pulling from an existing library of content that's organized by theme, and by your work as an organization versus thinking about, I mean, I've worked in places where we're actually mapping out the exact kinds of quotes we want to get. And that's the opposite of ethical storytelling, right?
• 36:20
  Dulari Gandhi: That's pre planning on somebody's behalf, which doesn't really get you to places. And then the next thing I would say is that when we're talking about channels, I think everyone goes automatically to the LinkedIn and the Twitter's and the Instagrams of the world, your grant reports, or communication channels. And those are the that's the way you tell stories to your funders, panel presentations like this one, Kim's done a great job today of showing us right, when you're on a panel presentation, you can weave in stories to make your point. But you can't do that unless you have a library of these stories. And that important calendar that helps you organize all of this. So process is really important. And then the last thing that I want to say on this topic is that your storytelling and your data should go together, right. So when we think about storytelling and data collection, I think we think about it still in a lot of cases in a siloed kind of way.
• 37:04
  Dulari Gandhi: And that, to me is also a little bit ethically questionable, right? Because data collection and storytelling are almost always mashed together. And so the ethics of who you're counting how you're counting them in what way you're categorizing them, what the data points are, and then how you're telling the story of that data should always be incorporated together. Because the story is giving you a chance to illustrate your data, and maybe even provide nuance that numbers don't show. And so if you think about storytelling, from that point of view, you're really in a position where you can use storytelling in a very powerful way that centers the lived experience of someone who your program serves, but also gives you a chance to really strongly illustrate the strong work of your program.
• 37:47
  Becky Endicott: All of that is so powerful. And if you think about one story, in a singular use, you're thinking too small.
• 37:55
  Becky Endicott: And so I want to give a little marketing pro tip out here. I mean, if you spend the time to put together somebody's story, you share it at your Gala, you share it on social media, you put it in a form letter, you know, for a urine solicitation, that small thinking, you've got to think about how to elevate it across all channels. And I would also say one other way that you can really amplify the story is making it a two way conversation. When you post it.
• 38:20
  Becky Endicott: Ask people how does this make you feel? What do you think about this? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Who's had a similar experience, all of a sudden the story triggers other stories.
• 38:31
  Becky Endicott: And people feel the vulnerability they feel the sharing and all of a sudden you've built a repository of stories that can come in, and just really create an arsenal of you know, informed content built on multiple lived experience of love that so much to Laurie. So we're kind of winding down just a little bit. And I want to throw this question out to the group because something that's been unexpected for us as we've been hosting these panels at the responsive nonprofit summit this week is this concept of joy. And joy comes up a lot. I love it.
• 39:05
  Becky Endicott: It's one of virtuous core values of their company. And I want to just throw this question to the group and say, how can someone really encapsulate joy in their storytelling, and I'm going to kick that to the room and whoever wants to take that jump in.
• 39:22
  Becky Straw: I can say something quickly, because I actually have a story about a woman named Joy.
• 39:24
  Becky Straw: And Deloria. Love what you said about making sure that you're telling just really quality over quantity. Joy was the first community health care worker in Uganda that I met when I was evaluating programs there 13 years ago, and she had become widowed. Her husband was the breadwinner. And so her her and her kids were at the time, they've been sleeping in a kind of a storage container until they found out about living goods and that they were hiring and training women to become community health care workers.
• 39:57
  Becky Straw: She was one of the first to apply and be hired. And she took me through that story of how that evolution not only changed her life, but the dignity she felt finally having a job and being respected leader in her community. Instead of telling 100 Different Joy stories, because we've created 2000 jobs, we follow joy, and we just have asked every few years when we come back. Can we hear how Joy's doing Can we meet with her the last time in 2018 She said, Becky I want to meet you at this school. We show up to the school and she said wanted me to the school because I'm now sending my grandson to private school because of my job. And I want to pitch her with him. And that was such a special moment where she got to share something that was empowering to her, and it tells our supporters, look, you helped joy 13 years ago, look at how she's doing now, Isn't that remarkable. And there are so many other joys out there who are just needing your support, and you can be the spark to send them on their way. So it's, she brings me joy. And I think that telling a positive story is what we want. Now we're so longing for connection and progress. And I think that's where nonprofits need to move from instead of this spray and pray model towards authentic work and impact and making sure that what we're doing is what we're saying we're doing. So storytelling is the way to really showcase that.
• 41:26
  Jonathan McCoy: Oh, my gosh, Joy. That was the perfect story.
• 41:29
  Jonathan McCoy: Thank you for taking us there, Becky. Okay, we're dying, because we only have like two minutes left. And we want everybody to get there one good thing, you know, we can't wrap a conversation without going one good thing. So we're gonna go round robin, leave us something, leave the audience with something. There's been great questions in the chat. Kim, I'll start with you one good thing to wrap this up.
• 41:46
  Kimberly O'Neil: One good thing, as it relates to ethical storytelling, remember self care, and all of this, the stories sometimes are heavy, but self care is what's going to guide us through the work. So just remember to do that as leaders and practitioners in the sector. Um,
• 42:02
  Cheryl Miller Houser: one good thing is joy. I mean, I do the work I do because it makes my heart soar. I love you know, meeting people who open my mind, open my heart, I love connecting with them. And then by sharing their stories, I'm connecting other people and and, and creating really positive impact through storytelling. It's just like, it's such a gift to be able to do this. Yeah, so that that that brings me joy and, and love to bring joy to others through the stories that I tell
• 42:40
  Becky Endicott: you do that Cheryl, we're living proof of watching what you've done. And that is so infused in your art.
• 42:45
  Becky Endicott: So Becky, what about you
• 42:47
  Becky Straw: gonna say the bravery of listening, of just stopping having patience, and listening to what people are saying and taking in the moment.
• 42:54
  Becky Straw: And reflecting that back is such a hard lesson to learn when you are just trying to raise money and trying to find that soundbite to just stop and say how can I best reflect this person's story in a way that that's powerful and authentic to them?
• 43:14
  Becky Endicott: Oh, I love that so much. And delorey, round us out here take us home,
• 43:18
  Dulari Gandhi: I would just share that I think what has been true in my experience more often than not, sometimes not. But more often than not, is that when we center ourselves on what we're actually trying to do, it tends to work out very successfully in every realm, right? So when we stopped chasing dollars, and more so focused on our mission, and what we're trying to achieve the dollars tend to come. So that's my one good thing.
• 43:40
  Becky Endicott: Always the lottery so short and sweet. And like packing a punch with what you have. I mean, friends, if you're out there, you can understand why we picked these four panelists. They are not only some of the most brilliant women out there, but their empathy is off the charts, their moral compass, always points north, please go follow them.
• 43:58
  Becky Endicott: They're all on LinkedIn. They all have incredible websites, they're putting out thought leadership around this topic.
• 44:03
  Becky Endicott: You know, I just appreciate everyone who has come in today, with an open heart and an open mind. I think we're asking bigger questions today. And it's really not only going to feel better, as we come out and tell the stories for our missions, but it's going to feel better for us, for our beneficiaries.
• 44:21
  Becky Endicott: And it's going to be a magnet for others that want to come in and replicate and be a part of the joy and the transformation that is experienced with our mission. So thank you to our incredible panelists. Thank you for this incredible conversation that's happened in the chat here. We have a 10 minute break before you find your next breakout session. Thanks for joining us and please come back and check out the expert bar and thanks to our collaborators who made all this possible today.
• 44:46
  Becky Endicott: Appreciate you all. Thank you.
• 44:48
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends, thanks so much for being here.
• 44:50
  Julie Confer: Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community.
• 45:21
  Julie Confer: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom