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Creative Courage at Any Age · The Uplifters

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1:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast,
1:11
SPEAKER_00: where every week I get to talk to amazing,
1:14
SPEAKER_00: inspiring women,
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SPEAKER_00: most of whom are well over 40 and out in the world doing big,
1:20
SPEAKER_00: brave things.
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I want to just set the stage a little bit today with some
1:25
research that I very
1:26
SPEAKER_00: quickly Googled for the purpose of this conversation.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: which is that according to the Sundance Institute,
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SPEAKER_00: even though women make up 50.8 or other studies say 50.4% of the U.S.
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population,
1:39
just 4.2% of the top 100 grossing films in America are made by
1:45
female directors.
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SPEAKER_00: Sundance Institute also says that that statistic hasn't changed
1:51
SPEAKER_00: in over a decade, not so promising.
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SPEAKER_00: But according to another study that I read,
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the percentage of girls and women as protagonists in films was
2:02
at an all-time high
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SPEAKER_00: in 2024,
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SPEAKER_00: and it had doubled since they were first reporting in 2007.
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SPEAKER_00: So what are we saying here?
2:10
SPEAKER_00: We're saying that there are some signs of progress.
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SPEAKER_00: Yay.
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But I'm also going to say here that this didn't happen by
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accident and it won't
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SPEAKER_00: continue to improve by accident.
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SPEAKER_00: It happens because folks like today's guest,
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SPEAKER_00: who you will meet in just a moment,
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SPEAKER_00: Mandy Fabian,
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really consciously set out to shift the balance of
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representation for women and
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SPEAKER_00: Mandy is a comedian, a filmmaker, a singer, songwriter.
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SPEAKER_00: Mandy's been making funny, sometimes controversial things.
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SPEAKER_00: Love that.
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She's also been focused throughout her career on female forward
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stories and characters like me.
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She's a mom of two teen girls and she's working on a handbook
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for life to give them
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SPEAKER_00: when they fly the coop.
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SPEAKER_00: Can't even get my head around that part because as I said,
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I was 17 year old and now I am living in this constant state of
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complex grief and
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SPEAKER_00: denial and excitement and it's just everything.
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SPEAKER_00: Mandy, I'm so happy you're here.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we are hindered spirits.
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SPEAKER_00: I want to know everything about you and be best friends forever.
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And I don't even know where to begin except to say that I
3:22
watched your film,
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SPEAKER_00: Just Bless None,
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SPEAKER_00: last night with my girls and I loved it so much.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Yay!
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SPEAKER_00: Oh, that makes me so happy.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
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SPEAKER_00: It's so, I mean, it's like so good on so many levels.
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SPEAKER_00: I journaled about it this morning.
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SPEAKER_00: I loved all of the characters.
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SPEAKER_00: They were so deeply flawed and human and real and yet loved.
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And that for me,
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like that's what I'm always looking for in art is compassion.
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And I just felt your love as a creator coming through for the
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many flavors of
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SPEAKER_00: archetypal women that exist within all of us.
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SPEAKER_00: And while I didn't feel like I could say I am that character,
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SPEAKER_00: even better,
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I felt like I could say I'm a little bit all those women and
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they're a little bit
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SPEAKER_00: me.
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SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
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SPEAKER_00: You know, I love that.
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SPEAKER_00: That's one of my favorite reviews I've ever heard.
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SPEAKER_00: It's exactly what I intended.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Believe it or not,
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SPEAKER_00: when I say that sometimes stories are controversial,
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sometimes they're controversial because you're not depicting
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perfect women because
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SPEAKER_00: you're going ahead and you're depicting these flawed things,
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SPEAKER_00: these complicated things.
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SPEAKER_00: And with this in particular,
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SPEAKER_00: I kind of wanted to explore,
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SPEAKER_00: first of all,
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SPEAKER_00: a rom-com where a woman doesn't end up with someone.
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SPEAKER_00: The answer is not a relationship with anybody external,
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SPEAKER_00: but a relationship with herself and actually not even fixing herself.
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Being okay with herself where she is so that she can start to
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move forward.
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SPEAKER_00: to do something different.
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SPEAKER_00: Because I truly believe we all get caught in that spiral of like,
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I'm not enough and I keep messing up and I don't know how to do
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it differently.
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SPEAKER_00: And I keep messing up and you can't ever,
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I don't know how you're ever supposed to move forward or
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regroup from something
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SPEAKER_00: like that.
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SPEAKER_00: You know, like self-loathing is real.
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SPEAKER_00: So anyway,
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SPEAKER_00: that was one part of the movie that I really,
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I liked that she comes to this place where she can love herself
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exactly where she
5:18
SPEAKER_00: is and she can move forward from that.
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SPEAKER_00: And I also really love putting a woman in a typical,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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SPEAKER_00: what we would call a female situation,
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SPEAKER_00: which is a wedding.
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SPEAKER_00: And she doesn't know how to do that.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Mm.
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SPEAKER_00: She doesn't know how to be a maid of honor.
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She's not motivated by the same things that we've been told
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should motivate us as women.
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SPEAKER_00: And she's awkward about it.
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And she also has sexual proclivities that are her own and loud
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and unashamed.
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SPEAKER_00: And that also makes her controversial.
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SPEAKER_00: And all of these things, I don't feel like they're controversial at all.
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SPEAKER_00: I think they're beautiful.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:54
That's something that I love that you got it and enjoyed it
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because ultimately it
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SPEAKER_00: is absolutely a film that makes you go,
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SPEAKER_00: well,
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SPEAKER_00: how are we supposed to behave in order for us to have compassion?
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SPEAKER_00: Because none of us are perfect.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: We're just humans and we're messy and we're making mistakes.
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And hopefully we're having breakthroughs every now and again
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and feeling like,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
6:19
SPEAKER_00: things are gonna get better,
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SPEAKER_00: right?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna be able to be braver.
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And that's really what we explore in this show is bravery in
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all its forms.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm currently working on my first book and I will tell you,
6:37
SPEAKER_00: like,
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SPEAKER_00: there's so much about it that scares the crap out of me.
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I mean,
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first of all,
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like there was a whole part of just like getting a book deal,
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right?
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SPEAKER_00: And that was scary as hell because then it was like,
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SPEAKER_00: please,
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SPEAKER_00: this is the thing I wanna make,
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SPEAKER_00: help me make it.
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SPEAKER_00: And like that whole journey was intense.
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SPEAKER_00: But now I'm in this journey of like,
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SPEAKER_00: This is really limited thinking and I'm just gonna be honest about it.
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SPEAKER_00: Like I'm gonna make it and then it's gonna be done and I can't change it.
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I am a highly iterative person who likes to continually update,
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evolve and change things.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna put something in the world that's just gonna like
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SPEAKER_00: be there in print and final.
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And so that's one of the things that really strikes me as an
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act of bravery for all
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like creators like you who are creating something that isn't
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frankly a digital
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SPEAKER_00: website,
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which can evolve every minute of every hour of every day or a
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conversation or even
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SPEAKER_00: a live event where it's just like,
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SPEAKER_00: my husband's in TV news and he's always like,
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SPEAKER_00: I have never in my life brought my work home.
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SPEAKER_00: because you air it and then it moves on into ether.
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SPEAKER_00: But it's a part of this like giant, endless body of work.
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SPEAKER_00: Whereas these things that take years to create a single piece,
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SPEAKER_00: that to me feels like a very different level of finality and intent.
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SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Now I'm like creating fears for people, I'm afraid.
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And when you are the writer,
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the creator,
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and it is part of your,
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this has been my life dream.
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SPEAKER_00: This is what I'm meant to express.
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SPEAKER_00: And then you put it out there
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SPEAKER_00: It is a very intense experience.
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And you ask like thousands of people to bet on you and your
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vision and your ability
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SPEAKER_00: to fulfill it.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Well,
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SPEAKER_00: that's the crazy thing too,
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SPEAKER_00: is like what you hope for is that there will be more eyeballs,
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SPEAKER_00: right?
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SPEAKER_00: Like certain things,
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SPEAKER_00: you know,
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if no one's ever going to see it or people are going to see it
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and forget about it,
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SPEAKER_00: that's fine.
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SPEAKER_00: But you want people to see it and have it affect them.
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SPEAKER_00: And you don't get to control how it affects them.
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SPEAKER_00: That's something I definitely have learned.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, wow.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
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SPEAKER_00: You just have to be, I mean, that's what like,
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SPEAKER_00: bravery.
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SPEAKER_00: At first,
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SPEAKER_00: it's just,
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I think at first you do something because you're almost too
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stupid to believe it
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SPEAKER_00: could ever go wrong.
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SPEAKER_00: You're just like, whee, I'm a dreamer and I'm going to go for it.
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But I think it takes real bravery then to go,
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oh,
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I'm going to learn from that and I'm going to
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SPEAKER_00: support myself and I'm going to do it again.
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SPEAKER_00: Like I'm going to keep expanding into these new,
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SPEAKER_00: every time I do something,
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SPEAKER_00: I learn something that I didn't know before.
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SPEAKER_00: And it's an invitation to keep expanding, to keep growing.
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SPEAKER_00: You go like, oh, okay.
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I thought I,
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I mean,
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when I made my first feature,
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I was like,
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huh,
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I'm done now.
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SPEAKER_00: Like amazing.
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And I was like,
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oh wow,
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there's still more levels,
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still more things to get brave about.
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SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk about that.
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SPEAKER_00: I asked you before our interview to share something that scares you,
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SPEAKER_00: and I'm just going to read your response.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, I think I have more of these hard things than easy things.
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SPEAKER_00: Putting my waitressing job to act full-time in New York.
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SPEAKER_00: Hey, been there, done that one too.
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SPEAKER_00: Breaking up with my first husband, directing my first feature film,
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SPEAKER_00: and then releasing it to the public,
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SPEAKER_00: moving to London,
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SPEAKER_00: looking for work in a new city,
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SPEAKER_00: having left everything except my family and a few suitcases back in LA,
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SPEAKER_00: choosing scary and hard seems to be my brand.
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SPEAKER_00: I love that answer.
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And the big question that emerged for me as I read this was how
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you think about thresholds.
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SPEAKER_00: Because it seems to me that you have been building a tolerance for
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SPEAKER_00: Or doing scary hard things.
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SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
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That has allowed you to ease into each of those levels and then
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take a little bit
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SPEAKER_00: higher,
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SPEAKER_00: stronger,
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SPEAKER_00: scarier,
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SPEAKER_00: braver step the next time.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is very true.
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SPEAKER_00: There is,
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SPEAKER_00: once you have done something that feels so big and crazy,
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SPEAKER_00: it's easier to do it the next time.
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SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
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SPEAKER_00: you still feel crazy and it's sometimes you have your,
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I always find I do at some point after I've done something
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really brave and I'm
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SPEAKER_00: really proud,
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SPEAKER_00: I get this sort of endorphin rush of like,
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SPEAKER_00: look at me,
11:09
SPEAKER_00: there are no limits.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: And I imagine how amazing and expansive and possible everything is.
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SPEAKER_00: And you get excited because in order to be brave,
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SPEAKER_00: you sort of have to sniff out possibility,
11:21
SPEAKER_00: right?
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And go after it like a terrier.
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SPEAKER_00: You go,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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I don't have to look at any of the things that seem like
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obstacles or would make
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SPEAKER_00: this hard.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm going to go right for what's easy.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: And I find that I love that path.
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And ultimately,
11:35
then I do,
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it's like the fear comes in and wallops me like a
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SPEAKER_00: like when I go, oh, what did I do?
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SPEAKER_00: You know, I do get the fear.
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I just kind of get it late in the game after I've already
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really committed and
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SPEAKER_00: started something.
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SPEAKER_00: And I think that because I've been there so many times,
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SPEAKER_00: I've just learned that that's not something that stops you.
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SPEAKER_00: That's just something that you process.
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SPEAKER_00: I always remind myself if I was doing something that was safe,
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SPEAKER_00: there would also be parts of that that
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SPEAKER_00: stunk.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Like if I had taken a job,
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SPEAKER_00: selling something or doing something that I was good at,
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SPEAKER_00: but wasn't my heart's desire,
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I would have still had to report to maybe somebody I didn't
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love or do reports when
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I didn't want to do them or have to work on days when I didn't
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want to work.
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SPEAKER_00: There's hard things to everything, right?
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SPEAKER_00: It is being able to tolerate the heart-pounding unknownness.
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SPEAKER_00: Like when you take a big leap of faith,
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SPEAKER_00: it really is that thing where you go,
12:31
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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SPEAKER_00: I got to keep taking steps.
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SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it doesn't look like a road.
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SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it looks like a cliff.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it looks like,
12:41
SPEAKER_00: as it did for Jess,
12:42
SPEAKER_00: scrambling along a bunch of rocks in the dark and
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So I think you've really hit on the essence of what separates
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those who do from
12:56
SPEAKER_00: those who don't,
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SPEAKER_00: which is that those who do bravely,
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SPEAKER_00: boldly step into the blindness and into the dark and
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SPEAKER_00: And just figure it out in like each tiny step.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And as you said, learning is such a big piece of that.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And those who look back at their life and say, man, I wish I had.
13:19
Yeah,
13:20
I just read this amazing poem and I wish I could remember the
13:24
woman's name.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: I'll email it to you after if you want to add it to show notes.
13:28
But I remember the first line of it was something about what
13:32
you're feeling is a
13:33
SPEAKER_00: homesickness for all the lives that you're not living.
13:37
And it's this wonderful,
13:38
it's a wonderful poem that I will share with you.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember the rest of it,
13:42
SPEAKER_00: but I think that I do fear more that each moment,
13:47
SPEAKER_00: each day,
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I kind of check in with myself and go,
13:49
SPEAKER_00: okay,
13:49
SPEAKER_00: if it was all over tomorrow,
13:50
SPEAKER_00: if you get the call,
13:52
SPEAKER_00: like,
13:53
SPEAKER_00: hey,
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Thursday is your last day,
13:54
SPEAKER_00: you got to jump,
13:55
SPEAKER_00: right?
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: How would you feel about how you've done it?
13:59
And for me,
14:00
even though it's been terrifying,
14:01
a lot of these things have been very terrifying.
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SPEAKER_00: I go, oh, no, but I didn't let that fear stop me.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: I didn't let it stop me.
14:09
And one of the things that I have also gotten out of it is like
14:12
the things that
14:12
SPEAKER_00: stops people is fear of failure,
14:14
SPEAKER_00: right?
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Fear it's not going to go right.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm going to embarrass myself.
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SPEAKER_00: Well, the good news is that I've embarrassed myself so many times.
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SPEAKER_00: I have failed so many times.
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SPEAKER_00: And I think at first when I was younger,
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SPEAKER_00: and this is the advantage of being the age that I am,
14:31
SPEAKER_00: right?
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Like when I was younger...
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It was sort of like I sort of brushed off failure like I was
14:36
chasing this thing.
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SPEAKER_00: I think I was chasing success,
14:39
SPEAKER_00: you know,
14:40
and worthiness and feeling like everybody's going to get me and
14:44
I'm going to be,
14:44
SPEAKER_00: it's going to be undeniable and I'm just going for it,
14:48
SPEAKER_00: you know?
14:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think when I started to fail,
14:51
SPEAKER_00: like what I do now,
14:53
whenever I take a chance and it doesn't pay off exactly like I
14:56
thought it would,
14:57
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't really see it as failure.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: I see it as like, I have to come to terms with a new reality.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it wasn't what I expected.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: what's this new present moment?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: What's happening now?
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SPEAKER_00: I really just have to accept that.
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SPEAKER_00: Then in the present moment,
15:13
SPEAKER_00: I think of it as like,
15:15
I'm getting closer every time to nurturing myself through a
15:18
bumpy part of it.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: It's moving through those things that make you understand yourself.
15:24
It's like a roadmap to your emotions and your own desires,
15:28
and you just go deeper and deeper.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you're never trying,
15:32
SPEAKER_00: then you're not stretching it out so you can really see what's going on.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like you are cheating yourself of the nourishment of the lesson.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I find it very nourishing because you can stay like this.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: And actually, I applaud people who can.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: I really, people who don't stretch it out, like that's great.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: People who just like have a straight line.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Is that what you mean?
16:00
SPEAKER_00: People who are like,
16:01
SPEAKER_00: I see it,
16:01
SPEAKER_00: I understand it,
16:02
and I'm going to stay focused on this one thing and head
16:05
directionally toward that
16:06
SPEAKER_00: without veering.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: yes.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: And they don't need risk.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: They're not compelled by anything beyond,
16:15
SPEAKER_00: you know,
16:16
SPEAKER_00: just,
16:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
16:17
SPEAKER_00: just the simple,
16:18
SPEAKER_00: the things that are in front of them.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: I have a tendency to be like, I'm going to go there, you know.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Same.
16:24
Yeah,
16:24
I get very excited about the world and I want to participate in
16:28
this really big way.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think that like,
16:32
SPEAKER_00: I think you do.
16:33
My fumbling and embarrassing myself has made me learn there's
16:37
nothing really that embarrassing.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, who would I be embarrassing?
16:40
SPEAKER_00: What is my failure?
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Or what is something not working out?
16:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, what does that even mean?
16:44
And the older I get,
16:45
the more I go,
16:46
oh,
16:46
no,
16:46
everything is working out,
16:48
my darling.
16:49
Like,
16:50
the only thing that matters is that you're honoring your own
16:53
integrity.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the thing.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Which I think for those people who...
16:58
SPEAKER_00: you know, they are honoring their integrity.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: And if my integrity is risk taking and trying and doing,
17:04
SPEAKER_00: then I need to find my solid ship in that.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: I need to find my self-love and learning and processing and seeing if I,
17:14
SPEAKER_00: you know,
17:15
SPEAKER_00: feel like going a little bit further with it.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like the non-negotiable is learning.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
17:21
SPEAKER_00: look,
17:22
SPEAKER_00: I still totally have an ego in terms of really want it to be perfect,
17:27
SPEAKER_00: really want it to be undeniable and everybody loves it,
17:31
SPEAKER_00: you know?
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: So it still stings me if someone's like,
17:34
SPEAKER_00: oh,
17:35
SPEAKER_00: I didn't love that song or I didn't love that,
17:37
SPEAKER_00: you know.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: But for me,
17:39
it's learning to be brave enough to offer it because there are
17:42
the people that it
17:43
SPEAKER_00: really resonates for.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
17:46
And learning that the process of doing it and expressing it is
17:49
such an achievement,
17:50
SPEAKER_00: such a wild,
17:51
glorious achievement of the expression of art coming in and
17:56
then being made.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: It's a miracle.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: I just find it to be a very life-affirming miracle.
18:04
I mean,
18:04
to me,
18:04
the most important theme that is coming from all of this is the
18:09
courage to act.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And it is so easy to get caught up in the fear of failure,
18:14
SPEAKER_00: which is also,
18:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
18:16
SPEAKER_00: you know,
18:17
manifested in the fear of perfectionism and the fear of not
18:22
doing the right thing
18:24
SPEAKER_00: and the right way.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: But literally all of that blocks all of the learning,
18:29
SPEAKER_00: all of the nourishment,
18:30
SPEAKER_00: all of the growth,
18:31
SPEAKER_00: all of the threshold building,
18:33
SPEAKER_00: all of the benefits that come from just doing it.
18:37
And I think even,
18:38
you know,
18:38
as I'm sharing my own fear about like,
18:40
I'm going to do it.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: And then the doors close.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, it doesn't have to be my last book.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: B, I'm gonna do a really good job because I'm doing it.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm actually showing up.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: I've got a team of people who are gonna help make me my best self, right?
18:54
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not trying to do it alone.
18:55
And so remembering too that it's not,
18:59
no matter what,
19:00
not gonna be perfect.
19:01
It's gonna be just the best I can do in this moment and it's
19:03
gonna be perfect for
19:04
SPEAKER_00: somebody and not for other people.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: And then I will, whatever it is, be really freaking brave.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm psyching myself up here in case you haven't noticed it.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes,
19:14
I'm going to be really brave about telling lots of people I did
19:16
it instead of being
19:17
SPEAKER_00: like,
19:18
SPEAKER_00: I did it.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: This is the thing I watch so often in creatives.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: It's like, I'm going to do it.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to work my hardest.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be really brave and I'm going to make the thing I love.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make it the very best that I can.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to tell anybody that I did it.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm going to tell myself it wasn't good enough.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: First of all, you're being called to do this, right?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: You're being called to do this.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So it's not even really 100% your responsibility in that way.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the artist's way of you.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: So very Julia Cameron.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: but I really do think that.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Where do these ideas come from?
19:52
SPEAKER_00: And also like,
19:53
SPEAKER_00: it's one of the things,
19:54
SPEAKER_00: one of the mistakes we make when we're going to the next thing is like,
19:57
SPEAKER_00: we don't take the inventory of what we've already done.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, look what you've already built.
20:03
There's a reason that you're writing a book because you have
20:06
built a foundation
20:07
SPEAKER_00: upon which to move to this next thing.
20:10
You have gathered knowledge,
20:11
you've done this podcast,
20:12
like you are ready for this.
20:15
And there's an imagery that I always think of when I'm moving
20:18
into the next step
20:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like when we start to expand,
20:22
it can feel like we're smaller because the space around you
20:26
gets bigger to make
20:27
SPEAKER_00: space for everything that you've got to give,
20:29
SPEAKER_00: right?
20:29
SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
20:32
SPEAKER_00: it's like you go,
20:33
SPEAKER_00: I feel like,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: and it does it maybe pretty quick where it goes,
20:36
SPEAKER_00: and all of a sudden your brain goes,
20:39
SPEAKER_00: oh no,
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm smaller,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: when that's not the case at all.
20:42
It's that the universe,
20:43
everything around you expanded because your energy needs to get
20:47
bigger.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: That's what it is.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: You're not getting smaller.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's perimenopause or if that was just really beautiful,
20:53
SPEAKER_00: but I think I'm crying.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: It's a good image, isn't it?
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Isn't it beautiful?
20:57
SPEAKER_00: All that space that you get to expand into.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: And our brain just goes, oh, no, too much space.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
21:04
And then we do the perfectionist dance and we do the other cute
21:08
little stuff.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: That's just nonsense.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and we try to shrink the world again so we can feel comfortable.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
21:15
SPEAKER_00: when in fact,
21:15
all you need to do is stay in that nice big space and bring
21:18
those little devils in.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
21:21
SPEAKER_00: when I'm going to work on a new project,
21:22
SPEAKER_00: it's crazy therapy for the first like three weeks of it.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: It's just dumb.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: I have to wrestle every demon to the ground.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: I feel like you again,
21:33
nonstop meditation and yoga and like all the things like
21:38
journaling like a mad
21:39
SPEAKER_00: woman because I've got to,
21:41
SPEAKER_00: you know,
21:42
SPEAKER_00: they won't give up.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: So I have to just sort of buckle them up.
21:47
So instead of just trying to hope they go away on their own,
21:50
you actually look at them.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, again, the space gets bigger.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: And so they go, hang on, this is new territory.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: I better protect you from all this.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: And you have to go, no, it's not new territory.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Might be a bigger bus.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: So just I have to buckle you up in your little seats.
22:09
It's I think Elizabeth Gilbert said this in her fantastic book,
22:12
Big Magic.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Which she talks about fear, like coming along the ride with you.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking too about like,
22:20
SPEAKER_00: as you were talking about filling the big space,
22:22
SPEAKER_00: I was picturing myself like in front of a bear.
22:25
And,
22:25
you know,
22:26
they always say like,
22:26
if you face a bear,
22:28
like puff yourself out.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: and like get really big.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: And so I was like imagining myself,
22:34
SPEAKER_00: padding myself with like my people,
22:37
my allies and my amplifiers and padding myself with my tools
22:41
and my resources and
22:42
my experience and like just like putting on a big suit of all
22:47
the assets and
22:48
SPEAKER_00: resources and learning from this lived experience and
22:56
And then using that to like stand in front of the bear and be
22:59
like,
22:59
we are here.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: These last 20, 30, 50 years are here.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Beautifully said.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to take stock of that.
23:11
I don't think it's something that we consciously remember that
23:14
we have because
23:15
we're all like rushing and moving to the next thing and looking
23:19
for feedback.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And as women,
23:21
SPEAKER_00: as women,
23:22
SPEAKER_00: I think we are programmed to take care of other people,
23:25
SPEAKER_00: to make sure everybody's okay.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Do you like this idea?
23:28
SPEAKER_00: Does this feel good for you?
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Are we all okay?
23:30
SPEAKER_00: And we do that, I think, to take the view off of us.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: I think it's yes.
23:37
And I do think there's a part of big dog energy that feels very
23:42
masculine and self-involved.
23:44
And there's something about it that the part of me that goes,
23:47
hmm,
23:47
I don't want to be like that.
23:48
But I think a little like what you just said was it feels like
23:52
a very feminine,
23:54
SPEAKER_00: thoughtful way to have that big dog energy,
23:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
23:57
SPEAKER_00: that like I am powerful,
23:59
SPEAKER_00: but I'm not just saying this,
24:01
SPEAKER_00: you know,
24:01
SPEAKER_00: based on nothing.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: I have these years of experience.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I have all of these things I've already done.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I have known this thing again and again and again,
24:11
SPEAKER_00: and I have no reason not to expect that I won't know it more.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: No?
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And that I won't learn more and that I won't survive more.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: And you're giving gifts.
24:21
I mean,
24:22
you know,
24:23
every time that you offer something,
24:25
you're offering something to the world.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's actually a very generous thing to offer your book.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Or my movie.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Your movie.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:37
It's interesting that you put it in those terms because it
24:39
brings it back to that
24:40
SPEAKER_00: caregiving role.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: And it's saying like, I am here in service.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: And I think for most of us, that's what motivates us.
24:48
I've done fairly large scale studies of women over the course
24:52
of my career.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I asked in one of our early studies was,
24:58
SPEAKER_00: what does it mean to have a good life?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: And I read through thousands of responses.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: And distilled it down to this.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: It means being healthy and well.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And that means mentally, physically.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: It means being deeply connected.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: And it means leaving a positive impact.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Ring the bell.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: That's it, right?
25:22
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm speechless.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: That's all we want, right?
25:27
And like,
25:28
I hear it in the way you talk about how you do big,
25:31
brave things.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: You say, I take care of myself.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: That's the foundation of all of this other stuff.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Because were you to not take care of all those fears,
25:43
SPEAKER_00: you would find a reason,
25:46
whether it is a physical ailment or a partnership that just
25:51
doesn't feel right.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: There would be a reason to not step in.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: And the truth is,
26:00
SPEAKER_00: I think with that,
26:02
SPEAKER_00: what's going to happen is those reasons are going to crop up.
26:04
There are going to be partners who are good fit and there are
26:07
going to be illnesses
26:08
SPEAKER_00: and there are going to be spaces that are unavailable.
26:11
And yet you'll be able to manage them and expand the lens to
26:16
see possibilities.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
26:18
I also think like the thing that I really am learning to
26:22
navigate even just
26:24
SPEAKER_00: recently,
26:24
SPEAKER_00: because the more honest you get with yourself,
26:27
SPEAKER_00: the deeper you kind of go,
26:29
SPEAKER_00: the more that you sort of uncover another layer,
26:32
SPEAKER_00: like in every moment in your life is different.
26:34
So you're like,
26:34
oh,
26:35
this is going to be I am never going to do this moment again.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: I will never do anything like I've done it before.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: And there are new things coming all the time.
26:46
It's not dissimilar to what I was thinking about as you talked
26:48
about like all of
26:49
SPEAKER_00: these strengths and assets and resources that we develop,
26:53
SPEAKER_00: ironically,
26:54
SPEAKER_00: are the things that we forget after we work so hard on them.
26:58
And so it's like we push and we endure and pull out every
27:04
creative resource available to us.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: And then we are like, I got there.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Moving on, dismiss it, forget it ever happened, right?
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Like what a freaking mess.
27:15
And so it sounds like you have a practice built into your life
27:19
of reflecting on
27:20
SPEAKER_00: those successes so that you remember.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because every new thing requires some new bravery.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: I have to find my why.
27:32
And my why is typically pretty much in the vein of all the
27:37
things that make me happy.
27:38
Like if my why of doing a creative project matches your
27:42
description of what makes a good life,
27:45
SPEAKER_00: then we've got money, right?
27:47
SPEAKER_00: Like then I have energy for it.
27:50
But in order to get past all of the little mental obstacles and
27:53
little fear mongers
27:54
SPEAKER_00: and all the acknowledgements of things that make it hard,
27:58
SPEAKER_00: if I have a really solid why,
28:01
SPEAKER_00: And a really solid,
28:02
SPEAKER_00: like,
28:03
SPEAKER_00: like I said,
28:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll just put up all the things that stop me are like,
28:07
SPEAKER_00: oh,
28:07
SPEAKER_00: this probably isn't going to work out.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, it didn't work out last time.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Why would it work out this time?
28:11
SPEAKER_00: And why would I assume that?
28:12
SPEAKER_00: So I have all these, my mind will just put up roadblocks.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: I think, I don't know if it's a human mind or if it's my mind.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: But I don't believe in accepting those roadblocks.
28:21
So I'm constantly having to sort of navigate them and go,
28:25
well,
28:25
there's a reason.
28:26
There's something that is accomplishable here because it's
28:31
life-affirming,
28:32
SPEAKER_00: because it shows you that life is expansive and that things are possible.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that's my favorite thing about being alive.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Like even moving...
28:44
SPEAKER_00: to London, I think was precipitated by this moment.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm very fortunate.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: And my mom was willing to take care of our kids.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And Patrick and I got to go to Paris for our 10 year wedding anniversary.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And we were in Paris and we're on our way back to the airport.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And I like stopped like a bolt of lightning.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Patrick, we could move to Paris.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, yeah, we are not moving to Paris.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: We don't speak French and we don't have visa.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: We're not moving to Paris.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, no, no, no, we're not moving to Paris.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: But we could.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, no, no, that's not what we're going to do.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: But the point is, if we really, really wanted to, we could.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: We could sell our house.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: We could look for a job or a visa.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: We could yank our kids out of the school, go to French school.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't want to do that.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: The point is, we could.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: It really like,
29:44
SPEAKER_00: if you start to look at these things that you wanna do,
29:47
SPEAKER_00: you go,
29:47
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
29:47
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
29:47
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
29:47
there's all these reasons I probably shouldn't and can't and it
29:50
won't go as well as
29:51
SPEAKER_00: I thought and I'll be disappointed and it'll make me angry,
29:53
SPEAKER_00: blah,
29:53
SPEAKER_00: blah,
29:53
SPEAKER_00: blah,
29:54
SPEAKER_00: and everyone will laugh,
29:54
SPEAKER_00: blah,
29:55
SPEAKER_00: blah,
29:55
SPEAKER_00: blah,
29:55
SPEAKER_00: I'll be embarrassed.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: But like, if I could, if it could happen, it could happen.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
30:03
SPEAKER_00: I can't stop thinking about that.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And like for everything in life,
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: To say we could.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think it balances you up.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: It's so important to keep that door open because think about it,
30:16
SPEAKER_00: like all of these coulds,
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I may have to write this into my handbook.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: I like this.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I'm already like quoting you in my book in my head.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: So we're just going to put this in all the books.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's great.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: It should be.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: But like for all those,
30:30
SPEAKER_00: for all those coulds,
30:31
SPEAKER_00: you know,
30:32
SPEAKER_00: it also helps you go,
30:34
SPEAKER_00: like,
30:34
SPEAKER_00: for example,
30:35
SPEAKER_00: no,
30:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't,
30:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't actually want to move to Paris.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: That's not where I want to move.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: But knowing that I could makes me go,
30:41
SPEAKER_00: but could I,
30:42
could I take the things I loved about Paris and put it in my
30:45
life in Los Angeles?
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Because we still lived in Los Angeles at the time, right?
30:48
SPEAKER_00: What are the things that compel me about that?
30:50
SPEAKER_00: So even by defining the
30:52
SPEAKER_00: you know, what you don't want in what's possible.
30:57
It can inform what you have in a way,
30:59
like it'll make you double down,
31:01
right?
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
31:04
it gets you clear on what matters most to you and what actually
31:10
isn't all that
31:11
SPEAKER_00: important,
31:12
SPEAKER_00: which is where I think most of us look back and feel like,
31:15
SPEAKER_00: oh,
31:15
SPEAKER_00: I didn't make the best decision there.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: It's because we're making decisions for what really didn't matter much.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: I think that's true.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
31:23
SPEAKER_00: I also think I've thought this,
31:25
SPEAKER_00: I've been having this lately too,
31:26
SPEAKER_00: which is just this beautiful love of the present moment.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: Like really, like really trying to draw my attention back to that.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds very woo-woo, but like, no, it's beautiful.
31:37
Because it's really such a beautiful,
31:39
talk about expansive thinking about what's possible.
31:42
Isn't it great to know truly 100% that there is just not one
31:48
thing ever,
31:49
not one moment
31:51
in the entire lifetime that you've existed that you can
31:54
actually do anything about.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's kind of reassuring, isn't it?
31:59
Well,
32:00
I do think there's kind of a,
32:01
you know,
32:02
like I can do something different.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: I can do something different right now today with my life today.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: You know,
32:09
SPEAKER_00: there's a certain if you go back and you sort of retread and go,
32:12
SPEAKER_00: oh,
32:12
SPEAKER_00: maybe I shouldn't have or,
32:14
SPEAKER_00: oh,
32:14
SPEAKER_00: I could have done that differently.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, you but you can't do that differently.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: And isn't that kind of great?
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, what if that's the magical algebra of existence?
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, the whole point was not to put you in the past redoing things.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: The whole point was to have you right here accepting what is, right?
32:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: That's where you're at your best self.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Like,
32:36
SPEAKER_00: if it was any other way,
32:37
maybe we would have been given the tools to time travel if that
32:40
was what we were
32:41
SPEAKER_00: meant to.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: And yet we have so much fear of regret.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: And that can be a really powerful motivator.
32:49
I mean,
32:49
we did a study a while back when I was at Weight Watchers on
32:54
people's eating behaviors.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: And we looked at a lot of the research around regret lotteries.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: And like,
33:00
SPEAKER_00: long story short,
33:01
you can basically get humans to do anything you want if you
33:04
tell them that they
33:06
SPEAKER_00: might lose out on something.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
33:11
you'll see it in marketing if you start paying attention to it
33:13
because it's like a
33:14
SPEAKER_00: really powerful manipulation tactic that brands use,
33:18
SPEAKER_00: but it's also one we can kind of use on ourselves.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And I think I hear people do this all the time, right?
33:24
SPEAKER_00: When I talk to people like, how did you get past the fear?
33:27
Often they're like,
33:28
well,
33:28
I thought I'm only going to have this moment once.
33:32
And there is a twinge of that or I realize that life is short
33:36
and I didn't want to
33:36
SPEAKER_00: look back and be like,
33:38
SPEAKER_00: oh,
33:38
SPEAKER_00: if only.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: And so that's using that tool,
33:42
that insight to move ourselves forward instead of staying stuck
33:47
in that tiny little
33:48
SPEAKER_00: bubble where we feel comfortable and safe and big.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: There's also that really simple idea of like,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
33:54
SPEAKER_00: this is,
33:55
it's not simple at all because when you're gripped in the
33:57
clutches of fear,
33:58
SPEAKER_00: which by the way,
33:58
SPEAKER_00: I still get that way,
34:01
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:01
SPEAKER_00: right?
34:01
SPEAKER_00: I think because I'm always trying these big things, you know?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yay.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, yay.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: What a signal that you're doing it.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: So I have to find different ways to sort of manage it.
34:12
So that's why I read a lot of books and listen to a lot of
34:14
podcasts such as
34:15
SPEAKER_00: yourselves,
34:16
SPEAKER_00: because it's so inspiring.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: And,
34:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:18
SPEAKER_00: you always find something that makes you,
34:19
SPEAKER_00: that just like reminds you of this thing.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: You go like, yeah, there is fear.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: There's fear.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: It exists.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And there's all kinds of like,
34:26
it's its own little governing body of something that feels like
34:30
it's definitely
34:31
SPEAKER_00: right.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: And you're over here going, I totally get it.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: And you have a whole really compelling case for why you're right.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: But the fact is,
34:40
SPEAKER_00: sometimes you can really just look and go like,
34:41
SPEAKER_00: well,
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I could do the fear thing or I could do the fun thing.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: And like,
34:46
SPEAKER_00: I just feel like maybe today,
34:48
let's at least put fun on the table and then see which one we
34:52
feel like doing.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it's really great.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: This is a great way I do it too with the fear thing.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm just sort of going, this is so good.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: But the fear thing, I love throwing tantrums.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I actually,
35:06
SPEAKER_00: today when my daughter gets home from school,
35:08
SPEAKER_00: I need to talk to her because I think she probably read one of,
35:10
SPEAKER_00: she used my computer and I think she read one of my tantrums.
35:13
And I need to explain to her that this is something that I do
35:16
and it is no way
35:17
SPEAKER_00: based in reality,
35:18
SPEAKER_00: but I take my,
35:20
SPEAKER_00: and sometimes I'll have friends so I could just,
35:22
SPEAKER_00: I'll just leave it on their voice message and be like,
35:24
SPEAKER_00: don't listen to this.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: You can totally delete this, but I need to have a tantrum.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And then I let myself be the most scaredy cat,
35:31
SPEAKER_00: petty,
35:33
SPEAKER_00: mean-spirited towards myself and anybody else.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I just let it go.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And I just rage and rage and argue for my own limitations.
35:44
And I whine and stomp my feet and say how it's all so unfair
35:49
and nobody ever helps me and blah.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: And I let that do for as long as I have to.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: so that it has its moment.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: And usually then I go, okay, that's that.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Now let's work on the other part of it.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: I love this so much.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we need, you know how they have those like wind phones?
36:07
So wind phones are these phones that get installed in various
36:12
places in nature.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: I think the first one was maybe in Japan,
36:16
but they're all over the world and they're just like phones
36:19
that you can call into
36:22
SPEAKER_00: basically to your lost loved ones.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like we need a dandrum wind phone.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: My mom and I talk a lot about this because my mom's a real like venter.
36:35
And I'm like,
36:35
mom,
36:36
your venting isn't great for everyone else's relationships.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Because,
36:41
SPEAKER_00: right,
36:42
SPEAKER_00: like if you vent about this person to the person who cares about you,
36:45
SPEAKER_00: it influences,
36:47
SPEAKER_00: right?
36:47
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like we need wind phones for our tantrums.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And then we can just like let it out.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe chat you between us.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: And just like,
36:59
SPEAKER_00: let me give this to you because what you're doing,
37:01
SPEAKER_00: right,
37:01
is you're acknowledging that all those feelings are there
37:04
instead of pretending
37:05
SPEAKER_00: that we don't have fear and hurt and disappointment.
37:09
And you're also just acknowledging in a way the sort of
37:12
neutrality of it instead of
37:14
it just turning in your chest and heart and mind and taking
37:17
over your life.
37:18
And it kind of gets in front of your eyes and filters
37:21
everything through that lens.
37:23
Whereas get it out and you just put it in this neutral space
37:26
and you can own it as
37:27
SPEAKER_00: much as you want,
37:28
SPEAKER_00: but you're putting it out into a neutral space where
37:31
SPEAKER_00: so that you can then make some room for the other thing,
37:33
SPEAKER_00: which didn't even have,
37:34
SPEAKER_00: it's like the quiet person at the table.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: It didn't even speak up.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: And you go, okay, fun.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Would you like to have a word?
37:40
SPEAKER_00: What would you like to see happen today?
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, you do that really well in the film too.
37:45
I feel like their victim and leadership mindsets are something
37:49
I think about a lot.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: And I think we all have access to both.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think we get to see in this film,
38:00
a model of what the victim tantrum looks like and how it can
38:07
reposition a person
38:08
SPEAKER_00: into a place of leadership.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And so while we see it maybe in a bit more extrinsic
38:14
SPEAKER_00: We get to really visualize that through your story here.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for anybody who's like, what is this mean?
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Go watch the film and then you'll understand.
38:21
And the other thing that you brought up for me that I'm gonna
38:24
play with is,
38:25
SPEAKER_00: because I think a lot about KPIs and filters,
38:28
SPEAKER_00: right?
38:28
SPEAKER_00: These are words for some reason I just use all the time in my life.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: And in my own journaling, I'm like,
38:34
SPEAKER_00: How am I filtering my choices?
38:35
SPEAKER_00: How am I deciding what gets through here?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I consciously want more of it.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: And I have just,
38:42
SPEAKER_00: as a result of this conversation,
38:44
SPEAKER_00: added a new filter for myself,
38:45
SPEAKER_00: which is when I'm deciding between two things,
38:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to ask myself,
38:49
SPEAKER_00: which one sounds more interesting?
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Because interesting is actually scary dressed up as learning, right?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like,
39:02
SPEAKER_00: okay,
39:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to like see,
39:04
I'm going to try to get myself to the advantages of doing brave
39:08
things before I get
39:11
SPEAKER_00: stuck in the potential disadvantages,
39:14
SPEAKER_00: the risks of doing brave things.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that Elise connected us.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Elise Hart is just such a
39:26
a mentor and a role model for doing big,
39:27
brave things at every stage of our life.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: She is truly a lifelong learner.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: She's nominated several really wonderful guests on this show.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: We'll link some of those episodes in the show notes.
39:37
But every woman who comes on our show nominates another woman
39:40
who inspires her.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious who you would like to nominate for The Uplifters.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: I am nominating my friend, Jennifer Carter.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Tell us about Jennifer.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Jennifer is a brand new novelist.
39:56
She just wrote her first book and I was her hiking buddy in Los
40:02
Angeles and we're
40:03
SPEAKER_00: very dear friends.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: And I got to hear every scary iteration,
40:08
but she heard a passion and felt a calling and she published
40:14
her book and she did
40:14
SPEAKER_00: her artwork and she put it out to the world and she's promoting it.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: And I know her very well.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: And I just, she's just a person who lifts other people up.
40:26
uplifter she's definitely an uplifter and she's just brave I
40:32
mean she's just so
40:34
SPEAKER_00: tenacious and brave and so that's she's who I'm nominating
40:40
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to hear how she does it.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: But to me,
40:43
another thing that I am just constantly gobsmacked by is the
40:46
human capacity for
40:48
SPEAKER_00: world building.
40:50
And so novelists,
40:51
filmmakers,
40:51
people who work in fiction,
40:52
I'm like,
40:53
how do you do that?
40:54
SPEAKER_00: How do you see that?
40:56
SPEAKER_00: I just am in awe of all of it.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: As uplifters, as you said, we love to uplift other uplifters.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So how can we support you and your work, Andy?
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's lovely.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: You know,
41:11
SPEAKER_00: what would be really supportive is,
41:14
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
41:14
SPEAKER_00: I would love it if anybody wanted to go see Just Plus None.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: It's on Amazon Prime and other places, but that's where I found it.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: And the real way to help would be to rate or review it.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And spread the word about it because when people,
41:33
SPEAKER_00: they might stumble on it,
41:35
but we all have this tendency to sort of go for something that
41:39
other people have
41:40
SPEAKER_00: liked first.
41:42
And that's a way to have an actual visual cue or verbal cue
41:47
where someone gets to
41:48
SPEAKER_00: know that you liked it.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: That's such good advice too.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
41:53
SPEAKER_00: it's certainly that true in podcasting,
41:55
SPEAKER_00: but frankly,
41:56
SPEAKER_00: we haven't had a lot of filmmakers on here.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: So I actually hadn't thought about how important that is in film as well.
42:02
It is,
42:03
especially if someone who doesn't like it kind of,
42:05
if they write something,
42:08
it can really push people away and they won't ever know if they
42:11
would have had a
42:11
SPEAKER_00: totally different experience.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: So if people have a good experience and then offer that up,
42:17
then other people might at least give it the shot to see if
42:22
they like it or don't
42:23
SPEAKER_00: like it.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: That would be, I love hearing people's thoughts on the movie.
42:29
I really liked it,
42:30
as you know,
42:30
and I will definitely go rate and review.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think that for me,
42:34
SPEAKER_00: it's just another really important reminder that just as big,
42:38
SPEAKER_00: brave things is an active process,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: so is uplifting.
42:42
And it really is moving past the thinking and the contemplation
42:47
and the analysis and
42:51
of what to say,
42:52
how to say it,
42:53
and just staying in the moment to your point.
42:56
And I tried to write down a little bit of the Mandy Fabian
43:00
recipe here for doing
43:02
SPEAKER_00: big,
43:02
SPEAKER_00: brave things.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: We'll see how it goes.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: It is all in active tense.
43:06
It is acting,
43:08
learning,
43:09
accepting,
43:11
receiving nourishment,
43:13
and in the moment.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: I still have like a thousand other things I want to talk to you about.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: So we'll have to talk again about the next big brave thing you do.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Likewise.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: That would be great.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: This was just a total pleasure.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: And I love you.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: My joy.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Right back at you.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to The Uplifters Podcast.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
43:43
please share them with The Uplifters in your life and then join
43:47
us in conversation
43:49
SPEAKER_00: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Head over to Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or...
43:55
SPEAKER_00: wherever you get your podcast and like, follow and rate our show.
44:00
It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll
44:04
ensure you never miss
44:06
SPEAKER_00: one of these beautiful stories.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: Big love.
44:12
SPEAKER_03: Painted water, sunshine, with rosemary and ton.
44:16
SPEAKER_03: Dwell in the perplexing, though you find it vexing.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: Toss a star and hover.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: Be your own best lover.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: Relish in a new prime.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Plant a tree in the springtime.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: Dance with idle hindsight.
44:33
SPEAKER_03: Bring the sun to twilight.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: Lift you up.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: Lift you up.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: Lift you up.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: Lift you up.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Right?
45:23
SPEAKER_02: In the pre-chorus.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: I was like... Mommy, stop crying.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: You're disturbing the peace.