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The Fall of Freelee and Durian Rider · Outspoken the Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We want to issue a trigger warning as we will
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: be discussing themes around eating disorders and domestic violence. Hi everyone,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: my name's Freely and today I'm going to show you
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: how much.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Fruit I eat in a day.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Freely the Banana Girl was the face of the online
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: vegan movement in Australia. The OG wellness warrior captured mainstream
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: attention when she claimed she ate 51 bananas.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: 51 bananas today.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: This is finished.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to lie, I'm really full.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Ugh. What started out as a mission to spread awareness
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: about veganism quickly became a toxic crusade for online power
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and clout. Rather than fighting for the rights of animals,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Freely fought with other vegans and influencers. And instead of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: progressing the vegan movement, she instead progressed her own personal agenda.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: These days, Freely is somewhat of an internet urban legend
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: of the 2010s. Internet whispers say she's still living off
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the grid in a jungle. Despite her influence being at
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: full power over a decade ago, her rule to four
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: diet is still being blamed for fueling followers.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Eating disorders.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: We are journalists Sophie and Kate Torver and we are
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: fascinated by the world of influencers and the psychology of
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: cancel culture. In this series, we will delve into Freely's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: biggest scandals, her fall from grace and the danger of influence.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: When we last left you, Freely and her boyfriend, Durian.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Ryder, had just lost a court battle between rival fitness
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: couple Kayla Acinas and Toby Pierce. We also dived into
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: some of Freely's biggest controversies, but we weren't done there. Today,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: we are going to explore further Freely's relationship with Jurian Ryder,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: also known by his real name, Harley Johnston. Doesn't quite
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: have the same ring to it, does it, Harley Johnston? No,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: it doesn't. So Freely and Harley like traveling together a lot.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: They spent most of their time in the US and
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Thailand attending vegan festivals and cycling. Now, Thailand held a
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: special place in their heart because.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Of the fruit, in particular durians.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And at the time, back in Australia, if you can
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: believe it, durians cost $ 80. However, in Thailand, they would
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: give them away for free. That is insane because, I mean,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: we grew up going to Malaysia where durians are very
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: popular and they were so cheap to buy on the street.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I had no idea that they were, well, I mean,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: they'd be even more money now. I was also around
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the time when bananas were really expensive in Australia.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I think it was a drought or too much rain.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Something was going on.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I had a bit of a Google and for a
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: 10 kilogram box of durians to be shipped over, that
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: costs you $ 325. So they're still very expensive. Well, they
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: actually have a really bad odor to them. And a
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: lot of Southeast Asian hotels ban them. So you're not
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: allowed to bring them in because of the smell. It
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: seems like people either love them or hate them. Now,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: in 2014, Freely and Durian Rider launched their very own
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: vegan festival in Chiang Mai called the Thai Fruit Festival.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And this wasn't a novel idea. The pair had been
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: involved in a similar festival in New York called Woodstock
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Fruit Festival. God, it sounds like a place that I
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: would not want to go. I mean, how boring does
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: that sound, a festival about fruit? I mean, I do
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: love a bit of fruit now and then, but I
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: don't think I'd be as fanatical as these people. Now,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Durian had been a governor on the events board. However,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: he was controversially voted out because his vegan ideologies clashed
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: with theirs. Yeah, because Durian, Ryder and Frilly were renowned
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: for their raw to four diet, which incorporated cooked food.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: However, the festival promoted only raw food.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: So Frilly and Durian essentially took the idea, but moved
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: it to Chiang Mai. And it was the perfect destination
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: for the festival because it was the home to so
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: many vegan restaurants. And This was at a time when
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: vegan restaurants were quite rare in the Western world. We're
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: seeing a lot of influencers at the moment holding retreats
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: for them and their followers. For instance, Tammy Hembrough, she's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: hosting one in Egypt this year and last year she
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: held one in Greece and her followers were paying upwards
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: of $ 10, 000 in order to just spend time with her
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: at this retreat and obviously for the accommodation. But when
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: it came to Freely and Durian Riders event, it was
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: free to attend. Yeah, and attendees got to train with
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Freely and Durian as well as cycle around the city's hills,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: eat in vegan restaurants and listen to their TED Talks.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Is that because fruit's pretty cheap? I know there was
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: obviously a few of these experiences going on. To me,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: it was more about getting into the minds of these people.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So Freely and Durian said that they were happy to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: donate their time to help expand the movement and bring
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: people together, red flag, They said the only fee was
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: a couple of dollars to eat at the vegan restaurants.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: And as for flights and accommodation, attendees had to take
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: care of it themselves. Now, I would love to play
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: some audio from the event's 2015 promotion.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: This is Durian Ryder speaking.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: What I really loved about it is every day, less
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: and less people would come to my talks because they'd
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: be hanging out with new friends, meeting new people. And
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: that was the goal. That was the goal, is to
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: introduce people, to create a little environment where people can
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: just bounce ideas off each other, meet other vegans and
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: fruitarian lovers and whatever stuff like that so bring or
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: noobs or experienced people just bring people together and create
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: the community so so many youtube channels have sparked up
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: other facebook groups have sparked up where to stay where
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: should i book a hotel harley just fucking rock up
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: just cruise around whatever fucking hotel you like to watch
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: uh stay at stay there you don't have to book
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: anything you will always get reservations in chiang mai there's
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: 700 hotels relax jump on that plane turn off doesn't
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: matter how fit you are how fat you are what
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: you look like whatever you're welcome Thai Fruit Festival 2015
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: June 1st June 21st Facebook group down.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Below look I don't know if this sort of marketing
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: would fly now but it doesn't surprise me because I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: feel like the sorts of people who are fruitarians or
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: vegans I might be generalizing here but they probably wouldn't
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: mind staying at Backpackers. Like they're probably not expecting some
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: red carpet experience, maybe like Tammy's followers who want to
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: be in the best accommodation in Greece. Yeah, well, it
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: just shows how far these events have come. And in
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the first year, 250 vegans from around the world joined
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the festival. The following year, the festival doubled in size,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: attracting 500 people. While in 2016, the event was opened
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: to just cyclists and renamed the Raw Till 4 Bike Festival. Now,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: while the event ran smoothly in 2014, it was marred
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: by controversy in its second year. So several young women
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: accused a middle-aged man connected to the event of sexual assault.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So these women were staying at this guy's house in
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Chiang Mai at the time. And when they made the allegations,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the man offered the women free accommodation to try and
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: smooth things over before eventually kicking them out of his house.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: And the incident caused a lot of talk in the
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: vegan community, which forced Freely and Durian to respond. So
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Freely told her YouTube subscribers that she didn't want to
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: feed into the drama. Let's throw in more of what
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: she said.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: So many people focus on shit and drama and you know,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: be a victim, poor me, that sort of vibe. And
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be around people like that.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I decided a long time ago, I don't want to
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: be around that energy. I don't want to be sucked
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: into that vortex.
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of victim blaming there, particularly for young
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: women who have made very serious claims about an older man.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I'm very surprised by that.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: It just shows how far we've come in 10 years. Now,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Freely's comments didn't go down well. Someone commented on the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: video saying, you're saying rape doesn't need our attention. The
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: person then went on to say that rape should receive
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the same amount of attention as animals do. Now, Freely
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: responded saying, no one got raped, laugh out loud. A
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: thigh massage and hand touching.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Is not rape.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I know this was 10 years ago, but I'm absolutely
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: rocked that this is the way that a large influencer
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and someone with status in a community would talk about
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: someone coming forth, a group of women coming forth and
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: talking about sexual assault.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Well, it gets worse.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: So Durian Ryder discredited the women's claim, saying that they
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: were just attention-seeking. Let's go to more of what he said.
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: He then went on to say this.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: I think if Jill.
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: Built her fitness level up, along with Annie, if they
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: trained together, and got, if they got their, if they
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: got their Doys to Tep time, under 42 minutes, their
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: whole paradigm, mental paradigm, their mental health would just like,
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: be so much better. But they, do enough sport, they
• 8:22
  Speaker 6: sort of sit around, like just dramatize it, sit around
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: and be applying makeup, and like, spending four hours editing
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: like an Instagram.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Photo, or whatever.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine if an influencer put this out these days?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: They would be absolutely cancelled.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that he would name the women on
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a public scale like this. I know he didn't use
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: last names, but it's pretty identifiable using their Christian names. Well,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: he sounds very familiar with them to use first name basis.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: And then to denigrate them by saying that they just
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: love gossip and drama and applying makeup and Well, what
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: about the bit where he said that they need to
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: be fitter? So maybe if they were fitter, this wouldn't
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: have been a problem.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: What has that got to do with it?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. Now, a year later, a second unrelated sexual
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: assault incident at the event came to light, and Durian
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: received an email from the victims accusing another man of
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: pretending to be vegan to gain their trust. And then
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: following the 2016 Fruit Festival, Harley took to Facebook to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: accuse little-known vegan YouTuber Izel Mazard of being predatory to
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: teenage girls at the event. Durian shared a photo of
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: the YouTuber and wrote, I can't confirm 100% yet if
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: this is true, but this piece of shit is allegedly
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: in Chiang Mai and asking teenage girls for money and
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I assume probably sex, etc.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Is he another?
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: If you see him in town or know what hotel
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: or apartment he is staying in, then please tell me.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: You can remain anonymous, of course.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: I know some of the guys have spoken to me
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: about him and want to confront him, but until we
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: can confirm anything, let's keep it relatively non-violent. If he
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: has broken any rules we will citizens arrest him and
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: hand him over to the Thai police. If they don't
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: do anything then yes we can serve justice to the
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: amount we feel is fair. We have a large number
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of very trusting young women in our community and we
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: want to set a loud example that predators would be
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: better avoiding our group at all times. And if they
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: want to pray, then we will pray on them harder
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: and faster. What an absolute turn of events. You know,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: a few years before, women are making legitimate claims about
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: sexual assault and harassment. That's been perpetrated at these events
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: or by people connected to these events allegedly. And then
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: now suddenly a guy who's not connected to you, who
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: is some sort of rival YouTuber, you're saying, oh my God,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: we have such a community of women that we've got
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: to protect.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: It's all of his fault.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's clear that Durian has been trying to
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: protect his festival at all costs. And he realizes that
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: this is a systemic problem and it's running rampant. So
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: he's got to blame someone else. Things changed, though, when
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Durian Ryder continued to level very serious allegations against Eisel.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So Durian accused him of being a pedophile, having a
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: criminal record, and claimed he lured young girls to his
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: apartment in Chiang Mai for unsolicited sexual encounters. He also
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: threatened to send goons around to his apartment to kidnap him. Now,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Eisel permanently denied these allegations and in a bid to
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: clear his name, shared his criminal record on YouTube. He
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: hit back saying Durian has targeted him because he called
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Freely out on his YouTube channel. Eisel also went on
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: to apologize to Freely over the videos. He also claimed
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: the dispute came down to their differing vegan values. And
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: during the war of words, Eisel even challenged Harley to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a boxing match. Oh, that's very Jordan Simi of him
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: and Logan Paul. Now, as this controversy intensified, Eisel created
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: a fundraising campaign called to raise money to sue Durian
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: for defamation, and he ended up raising $ 6, 500. This didn't
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: stop Durian, though. Instead, he confronted Eisel during a live
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: chat and asked him what he'd done with that money. Now,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Durian claimed that Eisel had stolen this money for the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: upcoming court case from his followers and was using that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: money to support himself. Gosh, it's just... It's such a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: slinging match, isn't it? This drama is next level. Like
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I think about some of the things that we talk
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: about on our podcast as being a big deal.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, this is actually very serious.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: We should have had the podcast 10 years ago. Now,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: whilst trying to find out whatever happened with this defamation case,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I came across a blog that Eisel still actually updates.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: And in November 17, he had shared an update entitled
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Jury and Writer, The Court Case, Final Update and Reflections.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: But when I went to go and look at the video,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it turned out the video had been deleted. And it
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: appears the bulk of the videos associated with these allegations
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: have also been deleted, which leads me to believe that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the case must have been settled out of court. And
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: both parties were perhaps told to remove the offending material
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: because that quite often happens in these situations. A bit
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: like what happened with Durian Ryder and Kayla Estinas. Yeah. Now,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Harley's claims against Eisel ended up coming back to bite
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: him because in 2016, a YouTuber called Hannah alleged that
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Durian had sexually harassed her while he was on a
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: break from Freely in 2015. Hannah uploaded a YouTube video
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: saying she felt like she had to go public. after
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: hearing Durian make the same accusations against Eisel. Now, Freely
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: got on the front foot and she labeled Hannah a liar.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: And she said that Hannah got a world of hate
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: for her lies, a pretty bold statement. Hannah then came
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: out and refuted what Freely said. She claims that Freely
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: contacted her when she was on this break from Durian
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Ryder and said that Durian had been with a lot
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: of young girls while they weren't together. Then, of course,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Freely got back with Durian and completely changed her tune.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: They did break up again, though, in June 2016. Around
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the same time, Durian also became embroiled in another online stout,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: this time with a YouTuber called Jen. Now, tragically, Jen
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: was sharing her battle with breast cancer, and she asked
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: her subscribers to help her with donations for her treatment,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: as she sadly couldn't afford it. Now, rather than helping
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: amplify Jen's request for help, Durian jumped on his channel
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and called her a scammer. He questioned the legitimacy of
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Jen's claims and said he looked into her eyes in
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the video and saw darkness. He said in a now-deleted video,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: that Jen girl is too much of a victim for
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: her immune system to be strong enough for recovery, in
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: my opinion. Again, I'm open to be proven wrong.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: Gosh.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, a bit of a bold statement that you
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: can just tell in someone's eyes that they're not actually
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: going through a cancer journey.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Absolutely awful.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Now, Jen ended up sharing her medical paperwork to prove
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that she did in fact have cancer. How disgusting is
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: that that someone's actually got to go to the next
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: level of having to provide their medical work? she also
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: went on to document her treatment sadly though jen had
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to stop treatment after she couldn't raise enough money to
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: continue it and devastatingly she passed away shortly after that
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: is just absolutely tragic it is so awful and i
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: do find it ironic how the figureheads of this online
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: vegan community spent most of their time fighting with other
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: vegans instead of actually focusing on progressing the vegan movement,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: they were instead all about progressing their own personal agendas.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't an isolated incident with Freely and Durian.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: It was very common in the vegan community. The personal
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: attacks were very ingrained with vegan bloggers. Because they clearly
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: were more interested in building a following and also being
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the figureheads of that community. There seemed to be a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: lot of competition amongst them.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And I think a big part of the problem were
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: these individuals putting their face and identity to the cause.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: So the emphasis was then placed on the individual to
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: represent the movement. And it's a clear example of mixing
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: your moral philosophy with your own personal brand. And it
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: definitely gave the vegan movement a very bad name, which
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think they've actually managed to get rid of yet. Yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: It's a very strange one because at the core of
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the vegan movement, it's supposed to be peaceful because you're
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: trying to protect the rights of animals. Yet everyone was
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: literally spending their time personally attacking one another.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of them thought they were
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: holier than thou because they were vegan. And it seems
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: like many of them thought that being vegan made them
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: better people. And it was all about ego and trying
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: to get the title.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Of top dog or top guru of the vegan movement.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, not to call the vegan movement a cult,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: But you do see in a lot of cults that
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: there are usually figureheads who really get off on telling
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: younger people and people in the less powerful positions what
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to do. And there's so much hype around who the
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: leaders are and people just blindly follow whatever they say,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: which seems to be taken to a grander scale when
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: you have an online platform like they did. Yeah. And
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can understand it from a strategy perspective
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: because these scandals that they were creating by battling it
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: out for the title of the best vegan really did
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: create engagement and views. But a lot of non-vegans were
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: no doubt tuning in and.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Just laughing about it.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately, throughout this whole time, animals really played second
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: fiddle to the vegan vloggers because they put their personal
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: ego and brands.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Ahead of the cause.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Now, after being one another's biggest supporters, Freely and Durian
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: quickly became each other's biggest enemies. So the pair called
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: it quits in June 2016, but went public with the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: news in September. Now, the announcement sparked one of the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: biggest vegan fights the internet has ever seen. So Durian
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: uploaded a YouTube video entitled Why We Broke Up, The 100% Truth,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: which we were seeing all big influencers doing this at
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the time. I think that was a very similar title
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to Shani Grumman's video about Jonathan.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Sowell, like Why We Broke Up.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Now, in the video, Durian cried as he revealed that
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: their happy online relationship was volatile and sometimes violent behind
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the scenes. Durian labelled Freely the best manipulator he had
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: met in his life. Let's throw to more of what
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: he said.
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: The truth is, man, she was so abusive to me.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: She used to hit me a lot. And I was
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: sort of cool with it. But then last year, you know,
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: I'd hit her back. You know, I think if you're
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: going to hit like a man, then you've got to
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: get hit back. And I never, ever hit Freely in
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: the face. I never abused any more force than was needed.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: I would just push her off or pin her down
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: and just punch her in the leg really hard and
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: just say, f * * *, this is not acceptable behaviour.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: Control your anger. She's just got a really bad temper, man.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: Asked her brothers. And I guess she sort of saw
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: me as a brother and, you know, we'd have our
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: arguments and she'd end up just coming at me. She'd
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: scratch me so hard in my arms, you know, that
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: I'd bleed, things like that.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: That's very confronting to listen to and it's very sad
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to hear that that was allegedly going on behind the scenes.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: it's really rare now to hear influencers open up about
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: their relationships online. We don't often hear people speaking about
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: domestic violence and what goes on behind the scenes when
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: both parties are known. And particularly in that manner, I mean,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: currently this country is going through a crisis when it
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: comes to domestic violence. And it's really hard to hear
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: someone detail all of that. And weaponize it against a
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: woman and to hear durian say oh it's okay that
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: i hit her because she hit me and then not
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to have her side of events now harley also went
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: on to claim that freely stole his lifestyle concept he
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: also alleged that freely had been using botox since 2013
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and intentionally hid it from him as well as accusing
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: her of forcing her new boyfriend to get a vasectomy Now,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the reason she would have hid from Harley and her
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: audience that she got Botox is because it's not vegan.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: So it's actually made from a bacteria that can be
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: found in animals like pigs and fish.
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: Oh, wow.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. I thought it might have come
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: down to the fact that she wanted to portray that
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: she looked so youthful and young because she was eating
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: this vegan diet and it wasn't that she was relying
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: on cosmetic procedures. Yeah, but also if you're really picky
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: about what you're putting into your body, it's interesting that
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: you would choose to put some sort.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Of poison in your face to help you look better.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Well, there is a lot of hypocrisy with lifestyle influences
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: even now.
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Well, Friendly did come out and deny the majority of
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Durian's claim. She was quoted in the Daily Mail as saying,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: if it was true, that I was beating him up
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: all the time, then why did he stay?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, we know that that really isn't, yeah.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Why did he have no marks on him even though
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: he was making daily videos?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Because it's not true.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Him accusing me is an insult to real sufferers of
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: domestic violence. It makes light of their suffering. Now, Freely did, however,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: admit that there were times during their relationship that they
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: were somewhat physical with each other. She said, The irony
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: is he actually hit me many times and not in defense.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: He has swung a bag violently at my face and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: left a scratch across my face. He has punched me
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: in the face with his fist after I affectionately nibbled
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: on his ear, which was apparently sore. He reacted by
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: punching me in the face and saying, why the fuck
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: did you do that? He has punched and kicked me
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: so hard in the leg before multiple times that I
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: couldn't walk properly for the rest of the day. Again,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: that is just so confronting to hear. Absolutely awful. It
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: really surprises me that that was a quote that was
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: published in Well, maybe not so much when you realize
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: it was in the Daily Mail, but it's very alarming
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: to hear that. Now, Frehley also claimed that Durian's alleged
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: violent behavior was caused by steroid abuse, which Durian has
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: vehemently denied. It's so interesting that she has hit back
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: at his Botox claims by saying, oh, well, he was
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: on steroids. Because now you're questioning, well, What part of
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: your lifestyle was genuine? Yeah, well, Freely did end up
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: denying that she used Botox. She did admit to using
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: a plant-based alternative product though. And in addition to defending herself,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Freely leveled her own claims against Durian. So she accused
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: him of cheating on her with multiple women. And she
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: also alleged that Durian expressed interest in one of their
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: underage followers, as well as blackmailed her to continue to
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: do videos with him. Gosh, this is all so dark
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and sinister.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Now, in 2022, six years after their breakup, Durian addressed
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the split again in an episode of his podcast, Durian
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Writer Raw Truth. In the episode, he accused Freely of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: ripping him off by at least $ 500, 000. He explained that
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: he pursued her legally in a civil family court in
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: a bid to divide their assets, but claimed that Freely
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: fled to Ecuador to avoid the court case. On the episode,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Durian also said, I'm telling the truth. She's full of shit,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and that's hay. That's women, you know, and
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: feminine men. He went on to say that he didn't
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: end up pursuing a defamation case against Freely like Johnny
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Depp did with Amber Heard because he didn't have the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: money and the lawyers just win out. He also said this.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: But you've really got to understand the responsibility as a boyfriend,
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: as a lover. If you're making someone calm and they feel.
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: Rejected by you one day, damn, like, yeah, you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: you could end up in some really hot water. So again,
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: I just want to reiterate, I've got no hate to
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: Freely at all.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: You know, I totally understand where she's coming from.
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: I did make her feel rejected.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: This just made me feel so sick. I mean, I
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: listened to the whole podcast and you spoke a lot
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: about women climaxing in this sort of context. And it
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: just made no sense to me. I'm like, what are
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: you going on about?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: It's revolting.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I can't believe that this podcast aired in 2022 and
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: this guy still has a platform. I'd love to know
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: how many downloads he got on this.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's a lot of people who listen
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: to it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: So would have he been excited when it popped up
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: that there was one extra listen from.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: You for this?
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, he also went into more detail about the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: alleged domestic violence claims. He accused Freely of pulling a
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: knife on him and kneeing him. He said that Freely
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: should be a UFC fighter as he's never been hit
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: harder by anyone before. It was around the time of
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the breakup that Freely's YouTube channel really started falling apart.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: And instead of blaming the content or maybe what had
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: been going on, she said that it was YouTube's fault
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: because at the time the platform was having issues with
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: their big advertisers and it was dubbed adpocalypse.
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: So basically what was happening were, yeah. So basically what
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: happened was big advertisers started pulling their ads from YouTube
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: because They didn't want their ads shown alongside controversial and
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: problematic content.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Like Freely and Durian Writers.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And in response, YouTube tightened its content moderation policies and
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: demonetized a lot of channels. So it caused a lot
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of backlash from creators, including Freely. Freely claimed her subscribers
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: were not only not being shown her content, but being
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: automatically unsubscribed. And to try and combat the algorithm, Freely
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: moved away from call-out videos and began filming a lot
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of ASMR videos. She also started up a new channel
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: called The Frugivore Diet, where she still uploads call-out videos
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and vegan lifestyle videos. It never quite had the same
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: traction as her original YouTube channel. Not long after her
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: very public breakup, Freely took a bit of a hiatus
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: from YouTube. And in February 2018, she revealed that she
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: had moved to Ecuador to live off the grid. Now,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: she moved into a cabin in the South American jungle
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: with a new partner called Snow Pea.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I do like Snow Pea better than Dream Rider.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: It's very cute, isn't it? At the time, she revealed
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: she felt freer than ever, saying, I spend most of
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: my days nude, free of restrictive clothing. I feast mostly
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: on organic fruits and vegetables picked from the land. I
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: shower in monsoonal rains and drink from pristine creeks. I
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: quit an unhealthy relationship and found peace. I haven't shaved
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: my body hair, dyed my hair or worn makeup in
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: over six months.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Sounds liberating.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Well, by May 2018, Freely's followers began getting suspicious about
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: her supposed grid-free lifestyle. And in late June, Freely addressed
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: the allegations on Instagram, revealing her life had been really
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: tough at times.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: She wrote, one commenter said, I was.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Lying and living in a mansion out here and I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: have a photographer who follows me around taking all my pics.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Not quite, honey.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: In reality, I have been living in a tent under
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: a shed for many months through monsoonal rain and gale
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: force winds. Yes, I do have a smartphone, but no reception,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: laptop and internet made possible through a satellite connection, necessary
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: tools of communication and income. This means I can share
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: with you what I see as an empowering urgent message.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: At this stage, I can't send you that message telepathically.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I can see the whole hypocrisy of it though, because
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: it's like, I'm living this very off the grid lifestyle
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: where I'm free and away from the judgment of others
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: yet I'm still going to create content that I upload
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to the internet to show you all like it just
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't really make sense does it and monetize it no
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it doesn't yeah now in September 2018 freely confirmed that
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: she had moved from Ecuador to the Australian jungle where
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: she still lives now At the time, she revealed that
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: she was working on the most controversial book she had
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: ever written, which almost cost her her relationship with Snow Pea. Now,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: we are still awaiting the.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Launch of that book, and that is where we are
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: going to leave things.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I really hope that this book doesn't see the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: light of day because, I mean, if this is her
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: most controversial book, what sort of advice is she providing
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: in there? Yeah, and as we discussed in the first episode,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who followed her Raw Till 4
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: guide are still dealing with the damage it caused them
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: all those years ago. I'm guessing this would have to
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: be self-published because she doesn't have an engaged community anymore.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Who would want to put their neck on the line
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: and say, oh, I'm backing this woman and I'm publishing
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: this book? Yeah, I think she would struggle to find
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a publisher. Well, thank you for listening to this special
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: series of Outspoken.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: It has been really.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Interesting looking back 10 years ago, which seems like about
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: 30 years ago. I think things have changed so much
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: for the better over the last decade. If you do
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: enjoy the podcast, we would love if you could share
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: it with a friend. This podcast was recorded on the
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: traditional land of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: We pay respect to elders past and present.