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Downy Ocean: Inside MACo Week with Maryland's Power Players · Maryland Now

• [00:00:00] VO: This is Maryland Now, the podcast Dori Henry: Welcome to Maryland Now, brought to you by Blended Public Affairs. I'm Dori Henry Josh Kurtz: I'm Josh Kurtz David Nitkin: And I am David Nitkin Dori Henry: And we have a fun episode for you this week. Dori Henry: Josh and I had the privilege of traveling down to Ocean City, Maryland, to attend one of the parties that happens around the MACO conference, or the Maryland Association of Counties, which has their big annual conference every year in Ocean City. And it's a few days in August where most of the government establishment of Maryland, both local and state, migrates to Ocean City and has a few days by the beach in conference halls, but also at a lot of parties David Nitkin: Dori, are they really parties or are they important networking receptions that allow elected officials and important stakeholders to [00:01:00] talk about important priorities in a less formal setting? Isn't that what it really is or, um, or not? Josh Kurtz: I have a few thoughts about that. Josh Kurtz: My first MACOs I went to were in the 1990s, and the official conference has, three, four days worth of substantive programs. A variety of topics get covered. A lot of people are talking. There's a huge exposition hall in the convention center where people peddle their wares to government procurement officers. Josh Kurtz: The conference in and of itself is a big deal, and there are a few meals and receptions officially associated with the conference. But over time, there's just been this explosion of receptions, political fundraisers, events parties sponsored by lobbying firms. I think this year there were at least 30 of those over a three, four-day period. Josh Kurtz: I would argue that there's plenty of time to do official business in the [00:02:00] convention hall. These parties just the, the explosion of boggles my mind. But there you have it. It's part of the culture for sure Dori Henry: I think as you talk to if y- if you're in the orbit of elected officials and lobbyists and public affairs folks i- the rule of thumb had always been, let's not publicize MACO that, that much. Let's not let folks know we're here. Let... If you're an elected official statewide you're gonna maybe do an event in Wicomico County on the way down and an event in, Kent County on the way back to m- to make sure that really the purpose is that you're representing the entire state and you're representing the shore. David Nitkin: But I will say we all know that every, that for elected officials, for government officials, for public affairs folks, for lobbyists, for those few days that week, their schedule is filled nonstop morning to night with receptions. And they're kind of all at the same three or four [00:03:00] locations, aren't they? David Nitkin: It is quite a unique Josh Kurtz: I liken I liken it to F- Fellini's Satyricon. I'll leave it for you movie buffs to to look that one up. But Josh Kurtz: there's definitely a FOMO involved with with a lot of the participants. It's like, " What do you mean you're not going to this one? I'm going to that one." Josh Kurtz: And you know, it's a, you compare notes for sure Dori Henry: I will say this as a former county government person the staff at MACO do an incredible amount of work to put the actual conference itself together and to create a forum for not just elected officials from counties, but county staff to be able to network with each other and learn from each other and share information and ideas and collectively address the challenges of the day and whatever things are really impacting local government in a given year. Dori Henry: And so I do-- I wanna shout out Michael Sanderson and his staff because, while, I think the rest of us that are on the outskirts remember the parties, it [00:04:00] is a lot of work that goes into putting the conference together, and a lot of folks are down there doing real work Josh Kurtz: Yeah. And there's professional uh, accreditation for certain county officials and, and as you said, Dori, best practices get discussed. mean, You could just stay in the convention hall. You would freeze your ass off, but you could stay in the con- in the convention hall and learn a lot without ever setting foot outside or going to any of these receptions David Nitkin: Thank you for saying that, Josh. It is a tough series of days to dress for because it is brutally hot outside, but you step foot in the, is David Nitkin: it Roland Powell David Nitkin: Convention Center, David Nitkin: Is that the name of it? And you are 100%, you might as well be in, Reykjavik or David Nitkin: something Speaking of electric bills. Dori Henry: so, Dori Henry: We had the opportunity to set up to do some podcast recording at one of the receptions that takes place at the MACO conference. This one was hosted by Lisa Harris Jones and Sean Malone of Harris Jones Malone. They are [00:05:00] an Annapolis lobbying firm who are very active in both state and local public affairs. Dori Henry: And they were gracious enough to host us at the reception, and our first interview was with Lisa and Sean. And so we will kick off this episode by hearing them talk about why it's valuable for their work to be at MACO and to have this party every year. David Nitkin: It's a reception. I love the word party cracks me up Dori: All right, so we're here with Lisa Harris Jones and Sean Malone from Harris, Jones, Malone at the reception that you host every year at MACO. Dori: Can you tell me when did you start doing this reception, and what's the value to your firm? Lisa HJ: So I think this is probably our 14th, 15th year doing this. Um, it's more of a value to our clients and to elected officials and everyone that attends the MACO conference so that there's an opportunity and a social setting where people can meet, get to know each other, and [00:06:00] it's not a ask involved, and I th- everyone enjoys it. Lisa HJ: Mm. So we have a great out- you know, turnout every year. ?: But I think the advantage for the firm is it's, it's an opportunity for us to come in in one stop, meet the people we have to see, not run around Ocean City for a whole week. Yeah. Which is a... When we had-- When we started it, we had kids in the house, and it was nice to have them at the beach. ?: Uh, but we weren't running around Ocean City, and so it was, like, kind of a time saver as well. Yeah. Dori: It seems like, you know, the press sort of thinks of MACO and the events that surround MACO as almost like a junket and, like, an event for people to just kind of schmooze and spend money or raise money. But really, having everybody in one town creates such a value for people who need to have a lot of meetings in a short amount of time. Dori: Oh, Lisa HJ: absolutely. There's a lot, there's a lot of networking going on, and there's also the opportunity for that elected official that may be, uh, on, on the southern part of the state or from western Maryland, far to get to, and [00:07:00] a conversation in person is always better than a Zoom or a telephone call, and this is an opportunity for people to connect and actually have a conversation and get to know each other. ?: And, and Dory, you, you've worked in county government. It's an opportunity for county officials who aren't in elected office to share best practices, share best ideas. And the actual conference is an excellent conference where people get together and- Mm. Um, you can find out what's successful in jurisdictions, what's not successful. ?: I think the conference overall, this one's not a junket. There may be a few, but this one didn't count that. Dori: I agree, and I, I need-- I think the MACO organization does an incredible job putting this together but also advocating on behalf of county governments- Right ... year-round and before the legislature. Dori: What do you guys see coming up, um, this fall but also in the upcoming legislative session that is gonna be, like, a, a hot issue for your clients or just in general for the state? ?: Well, I think the overarching issue again in the state is, um, the budget. Lisa HJ: The def-- Yeah, the deficit- Right ... and how do you fix it? Lisa HJ: And so we're gonna [00:08:00] see taxes that are likely to pass and what those taxes will be and how burdensome they'll be on businesses. That's gonna be the, the question for this upcoming session. ?: Yeah, revenue's a big issue, and, and I think the, uh, this governor's office and, and the legislature have a challenge. ?: This is what's projected as part of emergency both as they face. Lisa HJ: And then there's the CUS the blueprint, so how is that gonna affect education? Yeah. Uh, there's the, you know, ?: healthcare- Taking over the blueprints an issue. And, um, and then also economic development. The state- Yeah ... has to become welcoming to business and create a business environment, um, so that small businesses and businesses wanna stay and employ people. ?: Uh, it's a... They got a lot on their plate. They got a lot of juggling. I Lisa HJ: think- And we'll see a lot of legislation again on AI- Yeah ... 'cause that- that's gonna be another hot issue. Dori: Yeah, and data centers. Data centers. Data Lisa HJ: centers. Yes. ?: Energy. Dori: Yeah, for sure. All ?: problems that haven't been solved yet. Dori: And probably won't be in a [00:09:00] single legislative session. ?: No. Lisa HJ: No. Lisa HJ: Well, thank you. Dori: Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thanks for hosting us. Dori Henry: So the next set of conversations we had really were focused on the energy issue, which we have discussed before on this podcast, and we know is going to be a hot topic once again in the upcoming legislative session. Josh, did anything interesting strike you from these conversations? Josh Kurtz: Um, a couple of things. We, we, we, we talked to, uh, Umar Barve, who is, uh, the chair of the Maryland Public Service Commission, the, uh, the, uh, utility regulator in the state, and obviously they, y- you know, a- as the Maryland Now poll that we put out, uh, earlier this month showed, Marylanders are, um, apoplectic about the high cost of energy bills, and it's the number one thing they want their policymakers to work on going forward. We're likely to [00:10:00] see more proposals before the legislature. Dori: We're likely to see things pass in an effort to, you know, bring costs down for consumers. As a regulator, sort of what is your role? What do you see as the solution to the current challenge? Kumar Barve: 30 years ago, 20 years ago, we had very cheap electric rates, and then the derecho happened, and rate payers and voters said, "You need to create a situation where we don't lose power for two, three, four weeks." And utility commissioners and the utility companies basically built infrastructure, and we today have one of the most robust and reliable electric grids in the United States of America. Kumar Barve: But that is not cheap. It does come at a cost. And right now we have to focus on affordability, just and reasonable rates, and, and economizing. And that's what... You know, I'm an accountant, and that's what I'm all [00:11:00] about. Dori: So, um, you just-- we just did a poll, uh, the Maryland Now poll, that found that the number one issue that people want state leaders to prioritize is rising energy costs. Dori: And also, the entity that they tend to sort of blame for that is the utility companies wanting to make more profit. Is that fair? And what do you think really is the cost? I mean, you mentioned the derecho, but what are the other drivers? Kumar Barve: Everybody in American society wants to make a profit. The quest- It's a question of balance. Kumar Barve: And, you know, my view is that we can have all these things. We can have affordable, uh, electricity and natural gas prices. We can have a robust and reliable grid. It's a matter of balance and fairness. And one of the things that's unusual about my new job is that I'm not a legislator anymore. I'm a judge, and I have to make decisions based on hard evidence, not on some conjecture of s- or theory of somebody. Kumar Barve: We [00:12:00] need actual hard evidence. And the thing about these rate cases is that the utility companies are in our chambers, and the burden of proof is upon them to prove to us that they need to-- that they deserve this money. And pretty routinely over the last several years, even before I was chairman, we have been very, very hard about looking at the numbers, and we're gonna continue to be fair and, uh, and tough under these matters. Josh: Maryland is part of a 13-state regional grid. Talk about the difficulty of kind of governing, regulating in that structure, because it seems to me so many of Maryland's problems didn't originate in Maryland or are part of a bigger picture, and it's, it's like an immovable force when it comes to kind of reacting quickly and making changes. Kumar Barve: Well, Nothing happens quickly. You're right. We're in the PJM Interconnection, which is, 13 jurisdictions, [00:13:00] 77 million people, supposedly the largest electric grid in the world. I don't believe that because China is huge, but that's what they say. there's a consensus forming throughout the whole region that we need to economize, and it's not unique to Maryland. Kumar Barve: You know, these problems of electric... I'll just talk about electric rates right now. These problems of electric rates being high, this is not a Maryland problem, it's not a PJM problem, it's an America problem. We have, as a nation, decided that we want a very stable grid, which is not cheap, obviously, and we also wanna reshore manufacturing. Kumar Barve: We want people to drive electric vehicles, which they're gonna increasingly do because they're cheaper. So this is the whole balance point that we're working with. Dori: What about the AI piece? People-- Another thing we found in our poll is that people are very concerned about data centers, um, and because of the [00:14:00] impact that they're having on the cost of electricity. Dori: What, what is the role really of data centers in this conversation? Is there anything that the state, uh, should and could be doing to address it, or do we have to sort of accept that they're coming and work to be prepared? Kumar Barve: So let me lay an acronym on you. BYONG, bring your own new generation. These data centers have to find a way to find new electrons to power themselves. Kumar Barve: And, and let's be clear, these data centers are doing complex necessary things. All the biomedical research, uh, every, image like a mammogram, uh, or other MRI images, these are, uh, you know, radiologists using artificial intelligence to find these cancer tumors faster. This is artificial intelligence. Kumar Barve: It's happening in the cloud. And so the real issue is where is the new generation going to come from? We can't [00:15:00] allow a data center to go and parachute in some place and poach 50% of the power of some existing generation. Right now, Microsoft, I understand, is paying money to restart a nuclear unit at Three Mile Island, and they're paying for all the grid upgrades, and this is new electricity. Kumar Barve: And so that's really the philosophy that we have to have, new generation. Dori: Do you think that needs to be legislated? Kumar Barve: No, I don't. I, I think that the markets are set up in such a way that we can, that we at the Public Service Commission can manage this in a, in a manner that benefits the people of the s- uh, and the businesses of the state of Maryland. Josh: Were you surprised that Amazon recently decided to pull out of the, uh, Calvert Cliffs, uh, project? Kumar Barve: Well, this is partly due to a a Public Service Commission decision. They wanted to come in and get an automatic, a Certificate of Public Need and Convenience, uh, CPCN [00:16:00] is the acronym. And we basically said, " Before we give you that, we want to be assured that it's not going to undermine the PJM grid. We want you to do that study." And so, look, if, if a company were to come to Maryland and say, "We wanna build solar or wind or a nuclear power plant and build batteries to power our data center," I think that's totally fine as long as, as long as the water issues and the, uh, and the public, you know, accommodation issues are taken into account. Dori: I think that's perfectly fine. But I think we have to be very, very careful about not having new generation. Thank you so much for your time Dori Henry: An Dori Henry: d we also had a chance to speak to Republican State Senator J.B. Jennings, who represents parts of Baltimore and Harford Counties. And I want to apologize to Senator Jennings for my technical error. I cut off part of the beginning of his interview, which was a [00:17:00] conversation about revenue, but we did come back to the revenue conversation when we chatted with him. Josh Kurtz: One, one thing I'll quickly say about Senator Jennings, since we talked about all the receptions at MACO, he has been hosting one for, I think he said about 14 years, 12 or 14 years, and that's become one of the staples of the MACO reception scene. And his is not a fundraiser. It's a bipartisan event. Josh Kurtz: He does it every year at Ropewalk, a different venue than where we were. We were at the Sky Bar. And we got him talking a little bit about why he does it and what he hopes to get out of it every year, and it's worth noting that it's really one of the most popular events of the week JB Jennings: You know, I represent two counties. I have two county executives, two county council, and it's learning, you know, getting to know people. And, you know, I've got all these... a lot of these people coming to my committees, meeting me out- during session that might not w- be from Baltimore or Harford County, they c- let's say Carroll County or Howard County, and it just kind of grew from that, saying, "Hey, I need to meet more [00:18:00] people, understand their issues," so that when they come in my office for the first time, it's not the first time meeting them, like I've met them before. JB Jennings: So it started, uh, I think it was 2014, and it's gone from there. It's open to all. Anybody who attends MACO, it's not partisan. You know, Republican, Democrat, Independent, you name it, is invited, and it's, it's really, it's what it is. It's, it's everybody's getting along, getting to know each other, make friends, understand your issues so that we're not fighting, you know, during session. JB Jennings: It's trying to come up with a solution. As I say, we're not DC, we're Annapolis. We, we get along a lot better than they do in DC, and having an event like that helps cultivate that, where it takes the sting away for some of the politics. Josh: Th- this may sound like a ridiculous question, but every year there are more and more receptions at MACO. Josh: So, like, how do you, how do you logistically figure out, when you're gonna schedule yours? JB Jennings: So mine is always the Thursday of MACO. So MACO's always Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. My event [00:19:00] is always Thursday at 4:30 at Ropewalk. JB Jennings: It never changes. It's been that way for 12 years. We've kept the same time. So what you're finding is a lot of events that become annual, they lock in their time, people know. So for me, I don't have to worry about changing the time or, or picking the time because it, it was decided 12 years ago. That's what we stuck with. JB Jennings: And it's after most of the conference... You know, so, so all the conferences are done at the convention center, so we're not, you know, impacting anybody going to the actual conference. It's afterwards in the evenings when they get to go. Dori: So aside from the budget, which obviously is gonna be sort of a main focus of this session, what, uh, what other issues are you watching? Dori: How are you, uh, approaching, you know, things like the energy conversation, affordability, the things that are putting pressure on everyday Marylanders? JB Jennings: Well, believe me, energy is, is the number one issue I hear about. I deal with it myself. Uh, my wife and I have a farm, and, uh, believe me, it hurts in the wintertime because you gotta realize all those cows and horses, there's water tanks. JB Jennings: You gotta have, uh, [00:20:00] heaters in them to, to, to keep them from freezing, and we have an incredibly high, uh, electric bill in the wintertime because of that. So I feel it just like everybody else. When it comes to what's causing the energy policy and what's causing the energy prices to go up, it's, it's the current policies that we have which have driven it up, shutting down production here in Maryland. JB Jennings: Like, we don't have, the, the energy produced here. And the example I give to people, people don't see it this way, is think about this. If you go to work every day and your office is five miles away from your house, at the end of the week, how much money did you spend on gas? Not much, 'cause you were only driving 10 miles round trip. JB Jennings: Whereas if you worked in a job that, let's say, that's 60 miles from your house and you have to commute every day, you're now driving 120 miles. What's it cost you for gas at the end of the week? You realize how expensive it was. That's what's causing our energy cr- prices to be so high, is we're importing power from so far away, up in, you know, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, areas where the delivery fee is costing so much to push those electrons across [00:21:00] hundreds of miles to get to us that it's causing a lot of the problems. JB Jennings: So, you know, this session, looking at issues, you know, we've had several years where we keep coming up with these big bills. They give these great names about how they're gonna fix the energy policy. Last year's bill saved you, what, $12 a month? Nobody's really addressing the issue. They're just talking about, you know, what feels good, what looks good. JB Jennings: Y- you wanna f- fix the issue, you gotta come up with, with energy production here in the state. It, there's no way around it. Dori: And how likely is it that you think that we're gonna get any real impact on that? JB Jennings: I don't think we will. I think they're just gonna keep going back and forth, coming up with these ideas, saying, "Oh, we're gonna do this. JB Jennings: We're gonna do that. You know, Oh, we're gonna get solar farms." You know what? They're fighting solar farms left and right. Nobody wants them. They're not... I mean, first of all, a solar farm is not a farm. A farm to me is something that produces, uh, food or fiber. Solar f- doesn't do that. You know, you're, you're taking good ag land, so it's driving up... JB Jennings: You don't realize it. All these solar farms are driving up the cost of, of food indirectly, uh, 'cause you're taking production land out of it, um- Yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna come up with more ideas of [00:22:00] renewables, which look, I 100% support renewables, but you gotta let the industry develop on its own and slowly, you know, work its way up. JB Jennings: You know, kinda have a, a, a slower curve. You know, forcing it by saying, "Hey, we're gonna go electric, nothing else," or I'm sorry, "solar, nothing else," that's when you're having problems where, there's a deficiency in the amount of power on the grid that it's driving prices up. So I think you need to let the market itself slowly make the transition. Dori: I have one more budget question if you don't mind, ' it seems like we are always talking about a structural deficit in Maryland. It's like, it's like it's Groundhog Day. how do you sort of approach that, and is there a way to avoid continuing to have that conversation? JB Jennings: Well, we talk about structural, structural deficit. We're looking out years. You know, you're looking at '28, '29, '30 as what's happening, and what they're looking at is what the current spending in the state is gonna be at those times. JB Jennings: And you have to understand, roughly 80% of our budget is formulated spending. It's, it's already written. It's baked [00:23:00] in, in the formula that you gotta spend 20% on this or 8% of that. That's what's causing the structural. unless you address those formulas, but, you know, I always tell people, "Yep, do you know what a BRFA is? JB Jennings: Have you heard that acronym?" Most people don't. They're like, "What's that?" I said, "It's Budget Reconciliation Financing Act." So what happens is we pass the budget, we realize, hey, it's not balanced. Well, to make it balanced, you pass a BRFA, which allows you to go in there for one year or two years and tweak all those formulas to change it so that the, the budget becomes, fixed. JB Jennings: So the issue is it's every year we're using Band-Aids to fix the problem. Instead of actually going in and, and doing stitches and letting the, the wound heal properly, we're just Band-Aiding it every year, which allows us to conu- continuously have a structural deficit. Dori: Thank you so much. Dori Henry: Dori Henry: So we ended that conversation with Senator Jennings talking about the budget, and then we had some more interesting conversations about the budget. First we were lucky enough to be able to speak to Maryland's current budget secretary, Jake Weissman, who of course, spent a number [00:24:00] of years working as staff in the state legislature. Dori Henry: And so he obviously will bring that knowledge and experience to his process of formulating the budget and engaging with lawmakers who are of course, are gonna have to take the governor's budget and pass it Josh Kurtz: There are a limited number of players on the fiscal front in Annapolis, and Jake is, at the very top of the list. And obviously it's a little early for him to say what's gonna happen in the next legislative session as as the Moore administration looks to craft a budget with legislative leaders. Josh Kurtz: But I think, he talked about some of the things he's looking at and some of the things they're talking about, and just he laid out the process a little bit, which was very helpful, I thought David Nitkin: Yeah. And back on the sort of the policy side of things, it shows you... He describes, like, having everybody together in one place and the conversations that take place in the middle of the summer when it's, some might think it's a downtime, but it's really not in the budget process. Also speaks to the sort of the, the flip side. David Nitkin: I'll be the Pollyanna person, the [00:25:00] flip side of the of the value of having everybody together in one, one place in Ocean City. Dori Henry: That's right. Dori: Jake, tell us about why MACO is important for your job and what you do while you're down here. Jake Weisman: Yeah. So look, the conversations that we get to have both with legislators and with local elected officials and advocates can help both help people better understand what's going on with the budget picture and help understand what the needs are around the state. Dori: Since we're at MACO, and also I came from local government, I will ask you this: As you're formulating the budget, which, you know, you're coming up on budget formulation season, And obviously the governor will introduce his budget in January. Dori: How do you, balance the needs of the s- the state and local governments, knowing that the local governments rely on a lot of state aid and are also feeling a lot of budget pressures as the state is, with the need of the state to make cuts and, you know, fund the things that are mandated? Jake Weisman: Yeah. So local needs are state needs, right? When you look at our K through [00:26:00] 12 system, when you look at our health systems and public safety, a lot of that funding flows through the state. So I don't look at it from a standpoint of there are state needs and local needs. They're one and the same. If you talk to the average voter, the average taxpayer, they don't look at it as an either/or thing. Jake Weisman: They just look at it in terms of government. So it's a matter of how do we deliver the best and most amount of government services to folks for the affordable price. Josh: So you're you're gonna be kind of the man of the hour with the budget talks. I mean, obviously, it's the governor's budget and the legislature's budget, but I mean, you're doing the sort of nitty-gritty planning. what do the next few months look like as you sort of start to put this together? Jake Weisman: Yeah, so we've already started the process. We've already started internal hearings on some of the budgets, and what's going on right now isn't the work within DBM, although, uh, the folks in the Office of Budget Analysis are doing a lot of work. It's actually within the agencies. So each agency has received a target memo from us, and they're formulating their budget proposals, which will come to DBM in the fall and we'll review. Jake Weisman: We'll have internal [00:27:00] hearings. We'll meet with, uh, folks from the governor's office as well as the agencies, and make a recommendation Dori: Since you came from the legislature, um, how is it... how important is it that you engage with legislative leaders throughout this process, and what do you wish they would know or keep in mind when the budget comes to them in January? Jake Weisman: Yeah, it's critical, right? Literally, in the last 24 hours I've talked to both chairs of the budget committees twice and both presiding officers, and I'm grateful for their continued cooperation, partnership, or working with us. it's critically important in any budget year, but especially one where we're dealing with a shortfall like we are this year. Jake Weisman: It's important to see what's important to them and where they see us headed, right, and where we can work together. it's funny, the one thing that I think folks don't fully understand is I think we all start thinking about budget season when the governor introduces the budget. The amount of work that is done on the agency level and within DBM before the budget comes to the General Assembly is extraordinary, and it's something you [00:28:00] cannot understand without being in the middle of it. Jake Weisman: It's fascinating. Josh: year after year, we hear about the state's structural deficit. is that ever gonna change? Is that ever gonna abate? Jake Weisman: Yeah, look, as, as my former boss and budget whiz Rich Maddaleno is fond of saying, including on your podcast, the structural deficit is a conceit of our own design, right? Jake Weisman: And so we talk about it in a way no other state does. There are definitely costs, there are definitely issues that come up because of years of programs, right? Things like the Blueprint we're talking about where the fund balance no longer exists. But a lot of this is just the business of running government, of dealing with a $72 billion agency Dori: So obviously, you know, the elephant in the room is that there's gonna be a need to talk about revenue in a coming legislative session because of the structural deficit. And I know you can't tell us what things are gonna be on the table, but how confident are you that you're gonna be able to raise the revenue that is needed knowing that there are obviously [00:29:00] different pressures on all the different legislators, and they all have their different ideas about what the right solution is? Dori: How, how do you address that? Jake Weisman: I am confident that the governor will introduce a balanced budget, and I am confident the general assembly will pass a balanced budget like we do every year. It's a reason, as the treasurer would say, our bond rating, uh, is consistently so high. We know we're gonna introduce a balanced budget. Jake Weisman: We know we're gonna pass a balanced budget. Dori: I think you have to under state law. Jake Weisman: I mean, that helps. Dori: What else do you want people to know as we go into the fall and, and winter season? Jake Weisman: Yeah, I think it's just the work that's being done. You know, actually, literally a couple hours ago, DBM put out our guidance for nonprofits and for outside government entities that want to apply for state funding. Jake Weisman: The pool for that is incredibly limited, right? Last year we got about 1.6 billion in requests. The governor ha- could not even fund 1% of that. If agencies are, uh, submitting the, that, uh, request, please follow the DBM guidance. It really does make a [00:30:00] difference. Josh: So what keeps you up at night? Jake Weisman: Uh, when Josh Kirste is gonna call me. Dori: That was the perfect answer. Thank you, Secretary. Dori Henry: And after we spoke to Secretary Weissman we had a chance to speak to Comptroller Brooke Lierman, who doesn't any longer, now that she's no longer a lawmaker, have a direct hand in the formulation of the budget. But as one of the three members of the Board of Public Works, of course, she does see a lot of state dollars come across her desk and has an opportunity to vote on how those dollars are spent Josh Kurtz: And, describes herself rightly as as, one of the fiscal stewards of the state. And a- as you pointed out, Dori, she's a former legislator. She sat for a while on the House Appropriations Committee, so she, she knows her stuff. We talked about a variety of things with her, but the thread I think was sort of Maryland's, the soundness of Maryland's fiscal situation and some of the challenges to Dori Henry: I know we've had this conversation before, but why don't you tell our listeners what is it a comptroller does? Brooke Lierman: The [00:31:00] comptroller is like the elected CFO of the state of Maryland. Um, I'm an independently elected statewide official. Brooke Lierman: Um, this is actually the 175th anniversary of the Office of the Comptroller, 2026. There's your random useless fact for the day. Um, and the Comptroller's office is, you know, we are the elected CFO, the accountant. Um, we do the unclaimed property. I'm also an independently elected, like, representative for the people on all of the state's major boards and commissions, you know, whether it's the Board of Public Works, the Pension Board, more. Brooke Lierman: And then, of course, everybody's favorite job that I have is that I am everybody's tax collector... I mean, refunder. Um, so, uh, uh, you know, a lot of different hats, an amazing team of 1,300 people who I have the honor of, um, leading in 12 offices across the state. Josh: So, what are your priorities for a second term? Brooke Lierman: Well, I'm excited to be running for a second term because I [00:32:00] know, uh, all of the work that we have done over the past four years has really, can really to reimagine how the agency supports families, supports communities, and supports small businesses. very focused on, I like to say, on doing the right thing, but also on doing the thing right. Brooke Lierman: So doing the right thing is making government work better. How do you do that? You do the thing right. You make your... We've modernized our systems. Um, we have created, um, public engagement teams and to engage with businesses and residents. You know, doing the right thing is making sure that our office is available to Marylanders, that you can, you know, that we are out in the community sharing the resources. Brooke Lierman: That's why I created an office of public engagement. Also doing the right thing is making sure that we are setting up the state for long-term, financial success, and that means making sure our families, our businesses are thriving. And that right now is also about how do we build a more affordable Maryland? Brooke Lierman: And so [00:33:00] I've launched, you know, a series of reports and dashboards to be really the single source of truth on what's happening in our economy. So now that we've started all that work, there's just so much more to do to build off of that, um, moving into what I hope will be a, a second term. Dori: I'm glad you said that. Dori: We, we talked about your housing report, uh, in an earlier episode of Maryland Now. and of course, the importance of keeping residents and attracting residents to Maryland for state revenues. and obviously affordability, whether of housing or sort of any of the other issues, uh, related to affordability is so important for keeping people here and attracting new residents. Dori: What do you think, and I know that you're not a legislator anymore, but- What are some of the policy things that lawmakers and the governor should be looking at, or what are the areas, the issue areas that you think they should be focusing on in order to make sure that we have people that are paying taxes here? Brooke Lierman: No, it's a, it's a really important question. And look, this isn't just a question [00:34:00] about housing, it's really a question of the future of the state, and I would argue the nation, because we are losing residents to states with a lower cost of living. And if we lose residents, that means we will lose a congressional seat, and it means we will then have less power in the electoral college. Brooke Lierman: And that has real implications, not just for us and our tax base, it has implications for the nation. And so we have to take the issue of housing extremely seriously. Today, I was in Salisbury talking to folks, business owners, entrepreneurs who work at Wallops, um, at the flight base, um, where, you know. Brooke Lierman: And they were saying, "Yes, housing. We are bringing jobs. We can't get interns to come because they cannot find a place to live." So, you know, in our report, one of the things that I wanted to make sure was that we really laid out the differences in policy from the states that we're losing, uh, people to and Maryland, because they are building housing [00:35:00] more affordably, um, and more quickly. Brooke Lierman: And so what we did was we went through and we talked to local government officials, state government officials about what are the hang-ups, um, and they walked us through everything, and we compared that to South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas. And so we lay it out in the report, you know, whether it's vesting rights, um, or challenges with attracting investment because of, you know, regulatory challenges. Brooke Lierman: We call the Smith Island cake effect of regulations. They're just layered one on top of one another and so it's really hard to cut through. Delicious as a dessert, not as an economic policy. So there's a lot to do. Dori: You came, uh, as I mentioned before, to the Comptroller's office from the legislature. You've had a lot of time to travel around the state, meet with all kinds of different people and businesses and, uh, you know, local leaders. Dori: you know, what did you not know about sort of the larger Maryland that you now know, and how does it affect the way that you approach your work? Brooke Lierman: I think one of the things that I [00:36:00] didn't realize was, you know, we are a very regional state, right? We talk about mountain Maryland and the Eastern Shore, Baltimore region, DMV. Brooke Lierman: Thank you so much for your time. Dori Henry: Dori Henry: we had a chance to speak to the comptroller about housing. Of course, we spoke to her during our f- the first season of our podcast about the housing report that her office put out, and we spoke a little more about that with her down at MACO. Dori Henry: We also had a chance to speak to a couple of folks who are involved in housing in Maryland. Dori Henry: Gabrielle Duval is the president of Southern Management, and Lynn Phillips is vice president of resident experience. Southern Management is a a housing management company, and also they do some development of housing in Maryland. Andwe had a chance to speak to them about some of the challenges that they face in this particular housing climate, and with some of the hurdles that are in place in the state and local level to getting housing built Southern: Okay, so tell people if you're [00:37:00] new, uh, remember what you do. I'm Deborah L. Dubal, President of Southern Manager Companies. And hi, I'm Lynn Phillips, Vice President of Resident Experience for Southern Manager Companies. Okay. And tell me what Southern Manager does, and I am already impressed. It is a woman-run company. Southern: It is absolutely a woman-run and woman-owned business. Okay. Southern is one of the largest owner-operators of multifamily in the United States. Okay. We currently own and operate, um, 25,000 apartment units over 48 square miles in Maryland and Virginia. We also own three hotels and conference centers, as well as a ski resort up in Pennsylvania- Okay Southern: and commercial spaces. Dori: So do you build housing or just operate? We are-- actually have two development projects underway, but we're Southern: not developers by trade. Okay. We are a mission-driven business, and we are heavily focused on workforce housing. Okay. We look to provide what missing middle America needs. Over [00:38:00] 65% of our portfolio sits at less than 60% of area median income, and we look to serve that need for our nurses, our teachers, our postal workers who are looking for housing in metropolitan areas. Dori: So I'm, I'm really glad that you described that because you did an episode in our first season of this podcast about housing and the fact that Maryland needs more of it. Yes. For-- particularly for not even just low income, but moderately income families. What do you see from a policy perspective that needs to be done in order to facilitate more housing? Southern: What a wonderful question. Um, I have to be honest with you and tell you that our two development projects are both going on in Virginia right now. Because the legislative environment in Maryland has not been friendly to housing providers. Since COVID, housing has been an easy area to attack and get sound bites from because we can't move our product elsewhere. Southern: And so we are facing an onslaught of increased expenses, [00:39:00] unregulated utilities, and rent control all hitting at once, which makes it a hard environment to convince investors and our lenders to support our projects there. We are gonna continue to provide the best product we can for existing Maryland residents, but we have to pivot to Virginia, which is much more friendly for new development. Dori: And I would say we also need something for naturally occurring, um, workforce housing. We're conventional, so we have workforce housing, but Southern: we're not government-funded in any way, and so we need some breaks and blocks. Dori: thank you so much for coming to us. Thank you for having us. Enjoy the party. Dori Henry: I was glad that we got an opportunity to speak to our next interviewee , which was Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott, who obviously has a big job in Maryland politics. He's taking care of the state's biggest city, and there's obviously been a lot of progress, particularly on the violent crime numbers in Baltimore. Dori Henry: We had a chance to speak to him about that, and then sort of about the investment [00:40:00] that, comes on the heels of a significant development like that Josh Kurtz: And inevitably we talked to him a little bit about politics and what's ahead for him and for the city politically too Dori Henry: We're here with Mayor Brandon Scott of Baltimore City. Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for joining us. Mayor Brandon Scott: Of course. Dori: There has been so much talk about the reduction in crime in Baltimore City, and, um, I think that you have rightly taken a lot of credit for that. Talk to me about what policies you put in place to turn that around, and what you hope will follow from that. Mayor Brandon Scott: Y- yeah, I think that you may be versed to say this, but this is not about Brandon Scott. This is about Baltimore. Uh, Baltimore gets the credit because all of Baltimore is doing the work. Uh, to have us have, uh, now six years, over this last six years, have homicides and shootings down 60% in our city is a huge thing. Mayor Brandon Scott: For us, on this day, to have the lowest amount of homicides through this day of any year on record is something for us to be proud of. But it's an [00:41:00] acknowledgement, uh, because we know that one life is one too many, and we have a lot... a long way to go. But from where we were, and where we have been for most of my lifetime, where we were when I took office, thinking about it like this, uh, 18 of the 42 years that I've been alive, Baltimore had 300 plus homicides. Mayor Brandon Scott: Last year we were down to 133, and, uh, right now we're on pace to beat that significantly this year. But we're talking about us finally having a comprehensive violence prevention plan, understanding that gun violence is a public health issue, and attacking it from all angles. So there isn't one thing. All of the things matter. Mayor Brandon Scott: When we have our comprehensive violence prevention plan, it talks about our group violence reduction strategy, where we focus in on the less than 2% of the population that are most likely to be the victim or perpetrator of gun violence in our city, and we focus on them through law enforcement, but also, uh, through what we call carrot and stick. Mayor Brandon Scott: We go to folks and say, "Listen, we know who you are. We know what you do. You can change your life [00:42:00] and stay alive. We'll help you do whatever you need. Housing, relocation, education, we'll help you. But if you don't, then we're gonna remove you through police and then turn you over to the attorney general, to the state's attorney, to the federal attorney." Mayor Brandon Scott: Our focus on guns, uh, illegal guns coming to the city. 60% of the weapons recovered by the Baltimore Police Department come from other states, so we're focusing on gun traffickers. You're focusing on gun manufacturers like Polymer80, the nation's largest ghost gun company, that we sued and essentially ran out of business. Mayor Brandon Scott: Uh, places like Hanover Armory that was fueling guns into our city, and we won the, the nation's largest settlement against any gun store in history. But it's also our historic investment into community violence intervention, $50 million into people who used to pull a trigger who are now out there telling people not to do the same thing. Mayor Brandon Scott: Our hospital-based responders who are responding to incidents and preventing the next thing from happening. The investments into community organizations like We Are Us, and 10 Day Family, and Challenge to Change, and Uncle Teeth. When you look at the historic investments that we made into [00:43:00] recreation and parks, into schools, creating jobs for young people, all of it together- With not just, uh, uh, the normal stuff. Mayor Brandon Scott: We are doing a lot better at our police investigations and arresting the right people. Think about it in this simple term. In 2004, the city had over 280 homicide officers, right? They arrested 100,000 people. In 2025, we had 133 homicides. We arrest- arrested less than 20,000, because it's it's about who you arrest, not how many people you arrest. Mayor Brandon Scott: All of that together was what has led to Baltimore to lead the nation in reducing gun violence. Dori: That's your... I have one follow-on question, Josh, before you go. Um, obviously, you know, the reduction in crime is important for the individuals and families and communities that it impacts, but it also has an impact on in- people willing to invest in the city. Dori: And so it would follow that if you reduce homicides the way it has been done in Baltimore, that you would see investment coming in. So what, what do you have [00:44:00] to do as the mayor to spur that investment, and where are you trying to, um, attract that? Mayor Brandon Scott: The first thing we have to do is do our job, right? And we knew that, uh, Baltimore's issues with violence was holding back investment. Mayor Brandon Scott: But now that we have that moving in the right direction, and now that we have government operating at a much higher level than it was before, uh, we have to go out and seek that investment in partnering. When you talk about, uh, like the $7 billion with a B that's being invested just in downtown Baltimore over the next few years, that's an historic amount of money coming into the city. Mayor Brandon Scott: But we have to make sure that investment stays in our city, but also that we don't have folks, uh, having what happened before. The people get dismayed with the city and city government and leave and take their, their ball and go to another place. It's about partnership. It's about coordination, the way that we're partnering with MCB around the Inner Harbor, the way that we partner with the state and the Orioles around things happening with the stadiums, the way you see, see things happening in neighborhoods across the city. Mayor Brandon Scott: Like my childhood in, in Park Heights, now you see new buildings being built. [00:45:00] Also us, uh, other investment comes from the city. We have this historic vacant, uh, vacant property TIF that we have across the city of Baltimore. We're using TIF financing to help us drive down vacants, which are, are down from 16,000 when I take office to 11,000 and something right now. Mayor Brandon Scott: The lowest number it's been in two decades. That kind of work is going to continue to spur investment in our city. Josh: I'm gonna ask you a p- a political question. Josh: It's, it's 2026, but obviously a lot of people are already thinking about 2028 and beyond. Um, you Have you, have you given any thought about what might come next and, you know, what that thought process is gonna be and when it begins? Mayor Brandon Scott: Yeah, I think... Well, first I would just say that, uh, well, 2026 election is a very important one, not just in Maryland, but across the country. Everyone should be focused on 2026, as am I. Uh, because it's not just about what's happening in our state. I know that I'll be spending a lot of time in other states helping people to, uh, uh, hopefully win [00:46:00] office so that we can have the right representation in Washington, DC and in those states to fight back on, against these folks who are trying to, uh, uh, demolish American democracy. Mayor Brandon Scott: So I'll start there. But as for me, uh, right now we're focused on doing our job. Right now we're focused on, uh, doing our job so that we can stay in that, in that job. What comes, uh, when it gets close to 2028, in time to make that decision, will come. The, ultimately, the residents of Baltimore will decide what Brandon Scott will do next. Mayor Brandon Scott: Uh, whether that's continue to be the mayor or be something else is not up to me. It's about what my people want me to do and need me to do in that moment. Dori: One of the things that voters in Maryland are gonna be looking at this November is redistricting. As the residents of Baltimore will be looking to their leaders to, for guidance on how they should be thinking about this, what do you want voters to know, and what are your red lines when it comes to redistricting? Mayor Brandon Scott: Yeah, I think that, uh, this has been very clear for me. Uh, we know that this redistricting, uh, issue across the country has really centered around folks [00:47:00] trying to take representation away from Black voters. So as we're going through this in Maryland, we have to make sure that we don't, uh, do the very same in our state. Mayor Brandon Scott: And when you're talking about Black voters, most of the time in Maryland you're talking about Baltimore City residents, right? But what we have to do once this is passed, and I'm assuming that it will pass because I believe it should pass, is that we have to make sure that Baltimore isn't split up any more than it is today. Mayor Brandon Scott: That the Inner Harbor stays with the city of Baltimore, that the seventh congressional district stays, uh, much like it is, and quite frankly goes back to some of the other places there used to be, where there's a more unified front between, uh, uh, uh, Black Baltimore County and Baltimore City. We have to preserve our own Black representation as we fight for the nation's Black representation Josh: Do you have a sense, just given kind of the political realities of drawing an 8-0 map, whether that's... Josh: How realistic is that, I guess? Mayor Brandon Scott: as someone who had to, to do redistricting, I think it, it is possible, and I think it can be [00:48:00] done, and looking forward to, uh, us seeing our state partners and working, and with them and our federal partners to see that happen. But first and foremost, we have to have, the, the voters have to desire it first. Dori: Thank you for your time, Mr. Mayor Dori Henry: So after we spoke to Mayor Scott, we had the opportunity to speak to the general manager of CFG Bank Arena, Frank Remish. And I will say that I don't know if you guys have been to any events there in recent years, but there's been a real glow up for CFG Bank Arena, which of course some people will remember as the Baltimore Civic Center and the Baltimore Arena, and at one point I think it was the Royal Farms Arena. Dori Henry: But CFG Bank is the current name on the arena, and there's been a significant investment in renovation and you can see that in a cosmetic way when you go to a concert there. But Frank Remish spoke to us about some of the like technical updates that were made to really allow them to bring in more high-profile national acts and therefore maximize the number of events and the amount of revenue that they're generating Josh Kurtz: I'm old enough to remember when [00:49:00] Earl the Pearl Monroe played there. But I thought it was a really fascinating conversation, and I learned a lot about, the industry and what someone who's the general manager of an arena does, and just the competitive nature of the job and the arena, and what they've done to, to make it a much bigger player than it had been. Dori: Frank, I, I have been so impressed with the caliber of the acts that have been coming to play at the arena in recent years. Tell me how, you know, that came to be. Frank Remmish: Well, well, about, uh, three years ago, we put $250 million, we put $250 Frank Remmish: million into the arena. Frank Remmish: And, and one of the, one of the most important things we did, we put suites in, we changed the bathrooms, we put a kitchen in and all that stuff. There's a... But the most important thing we did was change the functionality of the building, Baltimore was always an incredible market, uh, and very diversified market. Frank Remmish: We sold out a lot of bands, but in the old building, we could only do about 20 concerts a year because it was very hard to move in and move out- Mm-hmm ... the building. The [00:50:00] functionality of the building was very obsolete. Plus, the sound was absolutely horrible. We gutted the building down to the bones, and where we were lucky is that the building was a fallout shelter, so the bones of the building were incredibly strong We changed the acoustics Frank Remmish: and we changed the, um, the grid, how you hang points. And to give you an example, in the old days, and Bruce Springsteen was the simplest show to do. If they had Bruce Springsteen on a Saturday night, we would have to give up a Friday as a pre-rig, which he doesn't wanna do that because he loses a day, and I don't wanna do it 'cause I lose a day. Frank Remmish: Uh, now most recently you did SZA on a, uh, on a Friday night, which had 27 trucks. Queen moved in that night. Queen- SZA moved out, she was out by 3:30. Queen was in and loaded up by 4:30. So you had 27 trucks going one direction, 30 trucks going the other direction. It would've taken me 5Ks to do that. So, so the point of the story is The arena always sells tickets. [00:51:00] Baltimore's a hot market. We can sell, country, rock, rap, it doesn't matter. now we can move the functionality of M&T Bank Champ. So we went from doing 15 to 20 concerts a year, now we do 60 concerts a year, and I'll sell 38 of them in and out. Frank Remmish: So it's 38 sellouts a year, um, which again, Baltimore can s- buy tickets. It opened us up. Once we, once we started having all those shows, then I could go into new markets such as K-pop and Latin. And, and they sold. Right. So it's a, a good domino effect. So it's been an incredible ride. Josh: how competitive is the marketplace regionally? Josh: Like, why would something come to Baltimore versus, say, Philly or DC, and how do you, you know, how do you attract top talent? Frank Remmish: Yeah. And, and that's a good question. Um, for most tours you may have 30 cities. We're about 24th, but we just happen to be in a market that are- they're all in, right? Frank Remmish: So arguably I could be c- competing against Philly or DC or somewhere in Mississippi, right? So [00:52:00] why, why do they come here? Well, you sell tickets. That's the first and most important thing. They could get in and out, right? And look, we have great customer service 'cause we were an older building, so we handle it a different way. Frank Remmish: But a lot of things we just, we have to have dates, 'cause I don't have, uh, I don't have any teams. Right. Which everybody always bugs me and says, "Why don't you have hockey? Why don't you have football?" Let me- ' And look- ... I'm from Baltimore. I love sports. I play sports. They, they don't do well. Frank Remmish: We are a concert venue. But when we do a concert, most concerts are end stage, so every seat in the house is perfect. Yeah. but our first week- we had the Eagles, so we had Don Henley. Frank Remmish: Don Henley is very, very, focused and precise in what he wants. Yeah. And whether it's 104 degree temperature, the water coming out, or his office being 72 degrees, or the shower pressure, whatever it is, it's gotta be perfect. So they're singing a few songs. He stops the concert mid, mid-concert and says, "I gotta tell you what, [00:53:00] this arena has absolute perfect acoustics." Frank Remmish: Wow. Love that. ?: So Frank Remmish: I bowed all out. I was excited. Yeah. Now- Mission accomplished. Yeah ... exactly. So now fast-forward about eight or nine days, I can't remember, I have Anita Baker. So Anita Baker goes to soundcheck, and I'm a super cocky guy so I'm confident in my ability, so I walk up to her and try to say, "Ms. Frank Remmish: Baker, I have to ask you a question." She said, "What?" And I go, "What do you think about my acoustics?" I said, " Frank Remmish: So now fast-forward about an hour and a half, Anita has her concert. During her concert, it just stops. Points to her sound guy, goes, "You're fired. Get out," ' cause he didn't mix well enough. Frank Remmish: So that shows you- Wow. Yeah, all of a sudden. Dori: So let me ask you, Frank. The arena is obviously doing well. Dori: there is a redevelopment of downtown Baltimore happening around you. How important is that to the continued success, and where does the arena fit into that larger vision? Frank Remmish: You know, it's super important to the arena. ?: We're like an oasis. [00:54:00] So you have Oriole Park, renovating us, the Hippodrome, whatever. You have all these oasis, and in between there's Speaker 15: deserts . Frank Remmish: We had to figure out how to close those gaps. Frank Remmish: I'm trying to be positive. I'm almost a little disappointed. When we built the arena and, you know, Speaker 16: private Frank Remmish: financing, $250 million was spent, no public money whatsoever. Didn't ask for anything. Mm-hmm. We believe in Baltimore. I just assumed people would follow. I assumed there would be brick and mortar. Frank Remmish: We have a horrible problem. We went from five- 140,000 people a year to over 900,000, but they come late and leave early. ?: Yeah. Frank Remmish: They don't stay in Baltimore. For the love of Baltimore, competition's good. We have The Paramount going up. We, we have Ravens staying in Oriole Park. Frank Remmish: I- in three days, we had two Morgan Wallen sellouts, and we had two Tame Impala sells. We had 'em and then the Key had 'em. They overlapped. Frank Remmish: Baltimore can do it. E- any time anything happens in Baltimore, and you could argue it's competition the more activation, the better it is. Frank Remmish: It's better for all of us, and that's what we need in Baltimore. Dori: Thank you so much. Dori Henry: after Mr. Remish, we had a chance to speak to one of Blended's clients Mary Urban [00:55:00] from Wyn Waste, which most people in the Baltimore region will know is the company that runs the waste to energy facility or waste incinerator in downtown Baltimore. And of course see the stack that has Baltimore written along it when you come into the city from the south. Dori Henry: Mary spoke to us about the role that the facility plays in the waste management for both Baltimore City and Baltimore County. It is a, a significant source of waste disposal. And also about the role that they play in energy generation in Maryland, which I think a lot of folks maybe don't always think about when they think about waste disposal, but it is it is something interesting about their facility and she had some interesting insights for us Dori: We're here with Mary Urban from WinWaste. Mary, tell us a little bit about what you do and what WinWaste does. Mary Urban: So I'm the VP of Public Affairs for WinWaste Innovations. We were formerly Wheelabrator. We're the Baltimore Stack, which most people know us as, and we, uh, take waste, we create renewable energy, uh, about 700,000 tons a year, and we power around [00:56:00] 35,000 homes. Dori: Mary, talk to me about how, WinWaste fits into the waste management plans of both Baltimore City and Baltimore County, and what would happen if you didn't exist? Mary Urban: Yeah. So, um, Baltimore County and Baltimore City are both sort of our largest customers. We serve both regions. you know, I think Baltimore City and Baltimore County have done a ton in terms of waste reduction, but, you know, we're just not getting to that zero waste or that circularity as fast as we all want. Mary Urban: So for the near future and, you know, into the future, as long as our emissions controls are, are all set as they are, um, then we're gonna be the, uh, the option and the local and in-state option, as, as opposed to sending about 30,000 tractor trailers down to Virginia, uh, to a landfill. Dori: But you mentioned emissions controls, and I'm glad you said that because I think that there is a misperception about what is coming out of the stack at the WinWaste facility in Baltimore. Dori: Can you talk a little bit about how the company has invested to reduce emissions ? Mary Urban: Yeah. So we're one of the most stringently regulated, uh, industries in the world, and about two years ago we put in $45 million to become one of [00:57:00] the cleanest in the world. So both things we take pride in, and again, we remain sort of an in-state disposal option. Mary Urban: we're one of the cleanest facilities in the world, but we're also solving a waste management problem while also producing energy, and every megawatt matters. Mary Urban: And so we're actually the 10th largest producer in state for energy generation, and uh, and so we just definitely wanna protect each megawatt. Dori: Thanks, Mary. Dori Henry: Stepping outside of Baltimore, we had the opportunity to speak to Vanessa Atterbeary, who is the Democratic nominee to be county executive in Howard County Josh Kurtz: She's no stranger to Maryland politics and government and MACO conferences. But, she spent some years in Annapolis in the legislature as chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, but is almost certain to be elected county executive in the fall. Josh Kurtz: And so she'll now be kind of approaching government and governing from a different perspective. To me, several of the conversations we had were about the precarious fiscal state that the state [00:58:00] is in, and as a result, local governments are in. And so I thought that was an interesting part of the conversation, for sure. Josh Kurtz: We think of Howard County as rich and, prosperous, but, they've got their fiscal challenges, too David Nitkin: Yeah, ev-every, every county has the same challenges and you're right. I think former delegate Atterberry now nominee Atterberry will have a different perspective on county government. Maryland Association of Counties presents a whole different, level of experiences for her. David Nitkin: I agree, Josh saying many people you interviewed said "We gotta be creative with our revenues." And so I think the, the flags are being hoisted up the flagpole. And so those of us who wanna read the semaphore signals can read them about what we might be seeing in the budget season ahead. Dori Henry: That's right. And, most of the larger jurisdictions in Maryland are going to be facing a county executive transition in the coming months which should be interesting to see how each of them does address this [00:59:00] revenue challenge, 'cause I think it is pretty universal, and of course they all have their own politics and, constituencies that they have to manage. Dori: we're here with Vanessa Atterbeary who is the Democratic nominee to be county executive in Howard County. Uh, formerly served in the state legislature as a delegate. How did you make the decision to, uh, leave your seat in the legislature in order to run for this executive position? Vanessa Arterbuery: So I was born and raised in Howard County, so first and foremost, I love Howard County. It is, no shade to any other jurisdiction, but the best in the state of Maryland. Um, and I think it came down to opportunity. Uh, our current county executive was term limited, and I thought it was a great opportunity. Uh, I, I accomplished a lot during my 10... Vanessa Arterbuery: somewhere between 10 and 11 years in Annapolis. Um, and I thought I could bring that to the county 'cause there's a lot of issues we have to tackle there. Keep ' Josh: Obviously, this is not your first MACO, but this is your first MACO as sort of county executive in waiting. What's different about it? Josh: And we're [01:00:00] presuming you're gonna win. You, you take nothing for granted, obviously. But you have a long lead time, relatively speaking, before you need... you're gonna take office. So talk about MACO specifically, but also what the preparation process is gonna be like. Vanessa Arterbuery: So what's different about MACO? Vanessa Arterbuery: I think this is the first MACO where I'm just not strictly having fun, right? I have meetings from, like, morning to evening, and everything is a work. Even being here, even though I love, you know, Sean and Lisa and this event. Um, so just meeting with a lot of people. MACO is a great time to... where everybody comes together. Vanessa Arterbuery: Um, I've met, you know, CAOs from other counties, CHUVA staffs from other counties, people who can give me great advice. It's my first time in this role, so I think for me, that's the point of MACO. Plus, meeting with a lot of people who are invested in the county and who wanna meet with me to talk about what's happening in the county. Dori: So, November comes. I'm assuming you're swearing it is in December. what is your first order of business? Vanessa Arterbuery: My very first order of business? I'm just now trying to [01:01:00] wrap my mind around transition, and, meeting with people and kind of working out, working on that. Vanessa Arterbuery: you know, affordability in Howard County is a huge issue. Um, it has a lot to do with the permitting process. I think what I want to know, for the folks who are gonna be working in my administration and who currently work for county government, is that we come from a customer service model. We are there for the people, for the businesses. Vanessa Arterbuery: We have come from a place of yes, and I think that might be a change of culture. we come... We don't come from a place of, "You didn't dot your I's and cross your T's, so go figure it out." No, we, we, we need to help you figure it out. I think there's gonna be a little bit of a culture shift. Uh, I am also... Vanessa Arterbuery: Even when I was in Annapolis, I don't sit in an ivory tower. I just might walk into somebody's office, like, "What's up? What are we doing? Like, I got some ideas. Let's, let's bounce it off and, and see how we can make this idea work, or tell me it's a horrible idea." Josh: We've been talking a lot about, tonight about the budget, the state budget, and obviously you have a lot of experience with that as your, during your time as chair of Ways and [01:02:00] Means in Annapolis. a lot of what's gonna happen with the budget, the state budget's gonna trickle down and impact a lot of what you're gonna try to do in Howard County. Josh: So what are you thinking about, kind of, the situation we're in right now, and what are you doing to kind of prepare for that? Vanessa Arterbuery: I believe in being creative and not always doing things the way that they've been done. I tried to do that as chair of Ways and Means, and I'm gonna definitely do that as executive in Howard County. Vanessa Arterbuery: We need to raise revenue in Howard County. We're not unlike the state. I want to think of creative ways to do that. One of the main things is bringing in businesses, growing our economic development hub. Um, so I think,thinking outside the box is a good way to bring in revenue. Dori: we talked about your time in the legislature, sort of your, your approach to how you approach, you know, partnerships and, uh, creating allies on issues. Dori: How do you plan to approach, the relationship that the executive has with the county council in terms of ensuring that [01:03:00] they are a productive partner in helping you achieve your goals? Vanessa Arterbuery: This is an excellent opportunity to do that because everyone is new except Christianna Rigby, and I have an excellent relationship with everybody. Vanessa Arterbuery: specifically Jansen and Jessica Nichols, I mean, we were everywhere together during the campaign. I have a lot of respect for Rigby. She's a local homegrown just like me. Um, I'm looking forward to working with her. Um, we gotta see what's gonna happen out in the west. Um, that is gonna be a competitive race, but oddly enough, I know the Republican that's running 'cause our kids played basketball together for a few years on the travel teams. Vanessa Arterbuery: So I've-- I-- anybody who knows me knows I believe in relationships and working with people, and I'm excited. I think we're all gonna-- moving forward as a team. Dori: Thank you so much for talking to us Dori Henry: We had a conversation after we spoke to Vanessa with my former colleague, D'Andrea Walker, who is Baltimore County's chief administrative officer. And it's interesting to speak to someone like D'Andrea, who is in a role that, [01:04:00] transitions through an executive transition. In other words, she's in a role that has a set term under the county charter, and, she will be there as the county s- transitions to a new county executive in December. Dori Henry: And so we spoke to her a little bit about what that process is like from the inside of government, and how they plan for that coming transition Dori: So D'Andrea, you have been, um, in this role with the county after serving as the head of the Department of Public Works and Transportation, for a number of years. Dori: And you, of course, have been in it through the transition from County Executive Olszewski to County Executive Fossmeyer, and now there's, uh, obviously another transition coming up. How do you manage through that transition, and how do you sort of keep the bureaucracy steady? Because there's a lot of moving parts that you have to manage. D'andrea Walker: Right. As you know, the county administrative officer is responsible for the transition. My appointment is through June 27th. We've already [01:05:00] started thinking about the transition for Baltimore County. One of the things that I know is vitally important is that the new council is educated on the enterprise of Baltimore County. D'andrea Walker: This new council, we're going from seven to nine. We're going from seven to nine. We have seven new members coming into this council. we will actually start our transition process in September, where we will invite those that are running for county council in to learn about the enterprise, the agencies, why we do what we do, the difference between the executive branch versus the legislative branch, and the importance of both roles. Dori: Talk to me a little bit about sort of this upcoming budget formulation season. obviously, as with the state, as, the... We had, Budget Secretary Weissman, talk to us a little bit earlier, and he talked about how the budget formulation process really is almost a year-round thing, and I know that's true for the county too, and a lot of what you do does rely upon state aid. Dori: What are you keeping an eye on right now, like [01:06:00] budget-wise from the state, and what are you nervous about? D'andrea Walker: So we had a, we had our meeting today with, MDOT to talk about the funds that we need for things safety related, traffic related issues in Baltimore County. D'andrea Walker: We're spending a lot of time here at NACO trying to meet with department secretaries to understand that, for them to understand the importance of the funds that we need in Baltimore County to still make sure that we're running an efficient enterprise, right? So we're doing a lot of that right now. we have a meeting with the Secretary of Budget on tomorrow. D'andrea Walker: We will express to him our needs, our concerns. We understand it's not easy in the state budget, but we still want to advocate and tell him the importance of us getting those state funding our needs Dori: obviously there is still an election to come in November for county executive, but we know who the likely winner is of that outcome. Dori: I wonder if you are engaging with the candidates or [01:07:00] both candidates, for the upcoming election, because just like the council members, the new incoming county executive will have a sort of steep learning curve as well in terms of learning about the entire enterprise that will then fall under, under their control. Dori: So how do you approach that? D'andrea Walker: Currently, we have not started engaging with the candidates for county executive simply because we still have an election will take place. However, from an enterprise perspective, we have start to plan and build our transition talk about the importance of what our priorities have been, where our funding has gone, where we need funding, our needs assessment as it relates to housing, affordable housing, economic development, jobs in the county. D'andrea Walker: So we started building those documents so that when we are prepared to talk to the new county executive-elect, we have all our documents ready for them to understand the landscape of Dori: It's a pretty quick transition. I think election happens the beginning of November. The swearing in of a new county executive happens near the [01:08:00] beginning of December. Dori: If there were one thing you could say to the new county executive on their way in that you hope they keep in mind as they D'andrea Walker: approach Dori: the first days of their work, what would D'andrea Walker: it be? It would be keep in mind the budget that we have, the upcoming budget that we have for FY twenty-eight , and the promises that are made for the limited amount of funds that we currently have, the funds that we're no longer getting from the federal government, the funds that we're no longer getting from the state government, and how that will impact the commitments that have been made and how we're going to be able to do that and still service all of the residents of Baltimore. Dori: Thanks, D'Andrea. Dori Henry: so after we spoke to some of those local officials, we had the chance to speak to some of our federal delegation members. My former boss, Congressman Johnny Olszewski, was on hand. He, of course, is no stranger to MACO as he is a former state lawmaker and then of course, former county executive and a former MACO president. Dori Henry: So he is no stranger to either the conference or the [01:09:00] many receptions and events that surround it Josh Kurtz: And, he hasn't lost a step when it comes to speaking fluently about the challenges the state and his county face. But at the same time he's now got a different perspective up on Capitol Hill, and so it was nice to be able to swing back and forth and talk about both with him. Josh Kurtz: And like all the Democratic members of Maryland's House delegation, he is stymied to a great extent by the fact that they're in the minority, but there's a pretty good chance they'll be in the majority come January. And you can almost see these folks expanding their horizons and, retooling their goals to become a little more ambitious to suit the situation they hope to find themselves in soon David Nitkin: Dora, your former boss absolutely has a lane that he wants to stay in of being someone who can be bipartisan, who doesn't demonize the other side. He articulated some of that. And, the Maryland counties, MACO experience, you put-- [01:10:00] when you get, 30 public works directors and their deputies in a room, they're, possibly nonpartisan, some combination of Democratic and Republican appointees. David Nitkin: The line there's no Democratic or Republican way to fix a pothole or run a recreation program. John Yo comes out of that mindset, He has that lane in Congress, so it's interesting to hear him discuss how he wants to hold the other party accountable but also work with them Dori Henry: That's right. It takes a certain level of political skill, I think, to be able to navigate that in this particular environment at the national level. Dori Henry: Dori: we're here with Congressman Johnny Olszewski, former Baltimore County Executive. Dori: we just released some poll numbers yesterday. Affordability is the number one issue, particularly related to energy prices. Um, but people are very concerned, and half of Marylanders report that they are struggling financially. Johnny O: Yeah, it's something we hear every day from the people we serve, that they are struggling with the cost of living. Johnny O: The President [01:11:00] promised to lower costs on day one. In fact, everything he's done has been the opposite. And so I'm hopeful that if Democrats take back the House in November, that we're in a position to increase wages. The fact that the national minimum wage is still $7 an hour is unconscionable to me. We can take steps to address the fact that we let the healthcare credits expire. Johnny O: That would lower costs there. We can do more on housing. I actually had my first piece of bipartisan legislation as part of the Road to Housing Act. We can do more for childcare. I mean, it just-- It's really, it's back to literally the basics, letting people put food on the table and have a roof over their head, and there's so many simple things that we can do to address that. Johnny O: And if, if we have trillions of dollars to give tax cuts to billionaires, we should be able to find a way to lower costs for hardworking Americans. Dori: here at Maryland Now, we do, as you know, care about policy. Talk to me about that Road to Housing Act and how it will actually impact production of housing here in Maryland. Johnny O: As you know, Dori, housing was a important part of my work as Baltimore County Executive, and so [01:12:00] it was a real pleasure to take those experiences with me as-- and get a piece of legislation included into this omnibus bill. my bill, the Reside Act, is really born out of those experiences, and it's a direct grant to s- to local and state governments to go in and address vacant commercial and industrial properties to help convert them to residential. Johnny O: So we know that as the economy has changed after p- you know, the pandemic, that people shop and, and work differently. Industry is different. And so we have all of these buildings across the country, that could be used to help house people, and that's one of the big issues out there. It's... The average age is forty before you have your first homeowner now in America. Johnny O: The average cost of a house is six hundred, eight hundred thousand, a million dollars, and so we have to find ways to lower the cost, and one of those ways is, is production, and I'm proud that we're doing some, important steps here in our legislation to address that. Dori: You're in the minority party. That might change come November. How hopeful are you that it will change, one? And how have you navigated the dynamic [01:13:00] of this current Congress with an administration that is so hostile to Democrats and to Congress in general? Johnny O: Yeah. I- very hopeful that's gonna change. Johnny O: I mean, when you have a president that has us in a war of choice that is as unpopular as the war in Iraq and the Vietnam War, and there's no clear way out of that, when you see gas prices over $4 a gallon, when energy prices are surging, when groceries are through the roof, if Democrats don't win, shame on us this November. Johnny O: But we also have to deliver on the other side. It's been really disheartening to be in a Congress where largely, Democrats are discarded, in the House in particular. It's very different than how I approached politics. I worked very hard to cultivate a bipartisan spirit when I was county executive with four Democrats and three Republicans to pass really meaningful legislation in a bipartisan way. Johnny O: But I've taken those lessons, and it's small things like pizza and football with my Republican colleagues, and just, you know, calling out the corruption [01:14:00] and the insanity for what it is, but doing so in a way that's not personal, and building those relationships. And that's why I think we've passed now, like, six pieces of legislation out of the House, even though I'm in the minority, one that's become law that we just talked about. Johnny O: And I'm hopeful that when we're in the majority... You know, look, w- if there are good ideas, we should adopt them, whether they're Republican or Democratic. And so I'll be pushing for Democrats to be about addressing that cost of living crisis and the rampant corruption that we're seeing from this administration. Josh: I've been really fascinated by your legislation to curtail the president's, uh, pardon powers. Talk a little bit about the bill, and also kind of how you anticipate the legislative journey and getting it ultimately passed. Johnny O: Yeah, I mean, the pardon is one of those tools that is absolute for presidents. Uh, it's meant to be a tool of mercy. Johnny O: We've seen this be absolutely abused by presidents of both parties, but it's been especially egregious by Donald Trump, to the point where we're seeing cottage industries spring up where lobbyists are being paid upwards of a million dollars to help secure pardons. And I think that's wrong. I [01:15:00] think it's unconscionable. Johnny O: Uh, but speaking of being bipartisan, so Don Bacon of Nebraska has joined, along with a bunch of other Democrats, on this Pardon Integrity Act, which would give Congress the ability to review and overturn pardons, but it would require a super majority of two-thirds of Congress to overturn pardons. So It's a very high bar, and intentionally so, and I think that's how we got, Representative Bacon to join. And I think people look at this, and it's just like, you know, i- if people are, are paying for pardons, if you see people who are storming the Capitol and attacking police officers getting pardons, you're seeing those with, with wealth and access to power are getting it, it sort of feeds this narrative of the average person isn't getting what members of Congress are through stock trading, which we should stop. Johnny O: The average person can't sell cryptocurrency and become rich like President Trump has. And so it's just one more example of how we have to think about how we adjust our systems. It requires a constitutional amendment, so it's not easy, but just because things are hard doesn't mean we shouldn't do them, so I- I'm proud to be taking it [01:16:00] on. Dori: in Baltimore County in your first year, you, uh, recognized a significant budget gap and a need to raise revenues, uh, in order to provide the services and amenities that county residents expect and deserve. Dori: What advice do you give to state lawmakers as they enter this next legislative session, as they are-- I mean, you were in the legislature. You have faced these budget conversations before. They're facing a challenging situation and likely, you know, a battle over revenue. Johnny O: Be audacious, but also be creative. I mean, one of the things I was proud of is that we said and we meant that revenues should always be a last resort. Johnny O: And that doesn't mean you can't ever have the conversation, because once we showed after a, a full year of looking at efficiencies and cuts and way to be smarter and leaner with our county government, we then turned to the public and said, "Here are, here are the changes we made that gets us halfway to the deficit that we inherited. Johnny O: how do you wanna deal with the rest of it? We can go further and actually, [01:17:00] like, truly reduce your services." But it goes back to that lesson of, like, engage with and, and care about the people you work with. We were told, "No, we don't want fewer services, we want more." And then just engaging in an authentic way about what that actually requires. Johnny O: And as a result, We've, we put over a quarter of a billion dollars into rec facilities. We're building the three new schools in Baltimore County that people said would never get built. we put record funding into, into road resurfacing and in, and sustainability. So anything is possible if you approach it thoughtfully, holistically, and you engage the folks you serve. Johnny O: I, I think the worst thing is not looking at all sides of the equation, 'cause there are ways to save and be efficient. and we should have those hard conversations too, but while also we, we really have to engage with the public as we're building budgets, whether it's federal, state, or local. Josh: assuming the state redraws its congressional map in the next year or two, do you have a kind of list of priorities for that process for you, for your district, and for the state overall? Johnny O: Surprised it took us so long to get to redistricting, to be honest with you. [01:18:00] look, Donald Trump started a race to the bottom when he started demanding more seats out of Texas, and so the response in California and Maryland is just a natural extension of that. I've always said that people should choose their politicians and not the other way around. Johnny O: Unfortunately, what we're seeing across the board in Democratic and Republican states is exactly that. Maryland is right to respond in this moment, but it also is crying out for federal reform, which I'm supportive of. I'm on bills, I'm on discharge petitions, and my hope is that we can all come together because everyone agrees it's wrong and that we should have better standards nationally. Johnny O: but in the meantime, look, wherever I might be drawn, I'm ready to serve, and it's a privilege and an honor to represent the people of the 2nd District currently, and if there's a future iteration to serve that district, our state, and our country, it's a great honor. I think the principles of lowering costs and fighting for decency and democracy and against corruption, that is consistent and, I think, well-received irrespective of where you are, whether [01:19:00] you're in western Maryland or the Eastern Shore or anywhere in between. Dori: Thank you, Congressman Dori Henry: And we also got to speak to one of his colleagues, April Delaney, who of course represents the district in Maryland that is farthest west and probably the, the most likely to be a toss-up in any given election because of the politics of Maryland. Dori Henry: And she does represent a lot of... She represents mountain Maryland and a lot of rural areas, which is different from, her colleagues who are in the central Maryland area and have much more strongly blue districts Josh Kurtz: She, she's new to politics. Her husband served in that seat some years ago, but she is new to elected office anyway. But she comes with her own set of expertise and priorities and she too is looking ahead to a day when the Democrats may be in the majority. Josh Kurtz: But as she told us more than a few times, representing the most purple district in the state right now, she's gotta temper some of her [01:20:00] views and, she really needs to cater to all her constituents and I think that came through in the interview. April: I have been around Washington for many years as a lawyer, as a nonprofit advocate. I was deputy secretary of commerce in the Biden administration. So I know the Hill, but not the Hill as an actual member. But what has surprised me is that for so many years you could actually drive different stakeholders together to actually compromise, April: What surprised me is how the lack of courage that this GOP has had and has been rubber-stamping this administration on things that actually hurt our country, hurt our national security, hurt our innovation, hurt our public health. They hurt their own constituents. And I cannot believe also about the amount of... April: It's, uh, insider dealing. I hate to use the word corruption, but almost corruption in terms of allowing so much pay to play, and so I've never [01:21:00] seen that. I came here at 22 to go to law school at Georgetown Law, and, 30-something years later, to see this country really allow that to happen has been unbelievable. Josh: How optimistic are Democrats about taking back the House this November? And assuming that happens, how will life change for you as a member, but also just for, your constituents, the country writ large, et cetera? April: I'm first gonna say that We always say it's the most important election, but this truly is, and this is an existential threat in terms of our democracy, in terms of... April: And everyone says that, but it really is true. And so we must retake the House as Democrats 'cause I don't know what the future of this country and is gonna be if we don't. I am very optimistic, and I will say I am the one that is America, the microcosm America that I just talked about. April: And I will tell you, I saw Trumpers on bikes in Hagerstown, filling up at the gas station, they had T-shirts that said, "We, the people," [01:22:00] in that scroll, and then it said, "Are really pissed off," and they were like, " We're voting for you." And I think that, you know, forty-seven percent lies in farm bankruptcies this year over last, within workforce immigration issues tariffs. April: I think that we can be very enthusiastic because I think a lot of our, our formerly Republican GOP voters are saying, "This is not working for us," but we still have to offer solutions. So I think it-- I do feel very optimistic about taking the House and the Senate. Caveat, this administration knows that these these issues are deeply unpopular. April: That's why they love the SAVE Act. That's why they are doing all this gerrymandering, and we have to be very Speaker 17: vigilant April: at showing up at the polls and about pushing back on and, you know, and troops at the polls 'cause that's what they're gonna try and do is intimidate. So we have to be vigilant. We have to show up, and we have to make [01:23:00] sure that everyone who can vote does vote. Dori: So I understand that a lot of folks, when they get to Congress, try to sort of carve out a signature initiative, something that is important to them personally, but also to their constituents, and that they, you know, work to become an expert in so they can really have an impact. Do you have a signature Speaker 18: issue Dori: that is sort of the most important to you? April: I've spent my lifetime in tech and telecom, and, you know, I worked as, you know, at, uh, as number two at NTIA, um, as deputy secretary of commerce, so rolling out broadband and tech. But my whole background has been on putting bumpers and safe guards on tech, on AI, on protections for workers. Not that I don't think that we don't need to have those things in AI. April: I mean, we are gonna have an AI world, but then how do we make sure that these chatbots don't break out of their cages, and that we actually have some common sense boundaries on it? So that's signature number one. Signature number two is I grew up in rural America, and I'm very focused on opportunities, on [01:24:00] connectivity, on how we invest in rural America and a lot of western, Western Maryland. April: And then the third thing is, is I'm on what they call SST, science-based and technology, and I really believe in our innovation, our research agencies like NIH, NIH, NIST, National Cancer Institute. And I am working very much on drawing back all of the research dollars to invest in our national security a- and our innovation. April: But I just... I think I am gonna be the one Democrat that gets the SST a major piece of legislation. It's called biometrology, and it's about, um, really standards for biotech, and it's one of the biggest things for innovation, and I have both Republican and Democrats on it, because we need to invest in our biotech industry for our 270 corridor. Josh: We've been talking a little bit about redistricting today, and obviously a new map won't be drawn until next year at the earliest, if at all. Do you have kind of a, a wish [01:25:00] list about, how that could impact you and your district and what, what the best course overall for mapmakers should be? April: Well, I'm gonna first say that I do think that we should have independent commissions, and that we really need to rework campaign finance reform and have independent commissions redraw this. So You know, if you think about Sarbanes and this was his big mission. April: For me I have to say I'm a young Purple district now, and I'm very careful. So I have not wrote in or made wish lists at all on the House and Senate. I think, uh, it's not a popularity contest.that's all I'm gonna say. I do not get ambitious. Dori: Thank you so much for your time Dori Henry: Dori Henry: And our final interview of the night was with State Administrator of Elections, Jared DeMarinis. This was a fascinating conversation. It's an interesting time to be an administrator of elections anywhere in this country, and of course, right here in Maryland, we have this conversation about redistricting, [01:26:00] and the question is gonna be on the ballot in November. Dori Henry: And so we got a chance to speak to Jared about, his job and sort of the environment that he's working in now, and the, the mechanics of how he makes this all happen Josh Kurtz: And he's, t- plain and simple, he's like in the firing line. The Trump administration is trying to seize voting records from a bunch of states and records of registered voters. States like Maryland are pushing back on that. you know, And but he's got to ensure, safe and fair elections at a time when, as he said, a lot more people are doubting the the veracity of the whole electoral system, which, you know, is sad and kinda sobering. Josh Kurtz: But he had some very interesting things to say, I thought. David Nitkin: Yeah, I liked what he had to say about, making sure as many people as possible not only vote but are participants in running, managing, overseeing elections. Like it, it is democracy with a small [01:27:00] D, and he emphasized that it needs to be democratized. And while he and others in his shoes face absolute challenges I love that philosophy it's all of our responsibilities to make sure we trust elections, not just his. Dori: So tell us what the biggest challenges you're facing are coming up on the November elections. Jared DeMarinis: I would say right now probably a lot of dis- and misinformation just about elections, the process, and people just believing in elections. Jared DeMarinis: I think right now it has been... I see s- s- polls after polls. People just don't believe in the results, the process, and it's, it's very troubling, and it's, it's a disturbing factor that we have to deal with, at least I have to deal with, to make sure people have confidence. Josh: Talk about what you do to counter some of this misinformation. Jared DeMarinis: Be out there do a lot of voter outreach programs, become the trusted source. So one of the things as I always try to say is, I try to recruit as many election judges as possible [01:28:00] because I was like, "You're the front line. Go talk to your neighbors. Show them that, how people vote, how we count the stuff, do the coffees. Do the, the, the wines in your house because y- they trust you, It's a slow build back. It's easy to tear something down, but to build confidence back is a very systematic and piecemeal process, and that's how we have to do it. Dori: So I'm sort of interested in the mechanics of some of what you do. Dori: We just had a special session. They passed a ballot initiative, which now has to go on the ballot, which is something that you have to implement. What sort of happens after the legislature acts? Jared DeMarinis: So basically we take that question, and we're designing the ballot as we speak. It's gonna be on for public display on August 31st. Jared DeMarinis: That's when we certify it, and people will then see their style ballot up on the website. Every ballot style will be up on our website on August 31st. Every office that is up there. So [01:29:00] we take all the candidates, their filings, our petitions. Everything comes in through our office to create the ballot and to put on the... Jared DeMarinis: a, a nice little party called Election Day. Josh: Well, not I don't want you to make any kind of partisan analysis, but wh- where does all the, the distrust come from, do you think? And how has that evolved? 'Cause elections are sacrosanct, and, you know, and now people are casting doubt on it all, all the time. Jared DeMarinis: One would think that elections are sacrosanct. Jared DeMarinis: I mean, but now prediction markets are there, so people are betting like crazy on this stuff here, which, uh, which I'm opposed to. But I think that it's on both sides, because I think that, there was issues on both, on both the left and the right to agree with certain conspiracy theories, and with social media they take root, and they're also something that is sensationalized and, in, in those algorithms, when you do something sensational, it generates more hits, more likes, [01:30:00] and then you monetize it, and so then you have to keep feeding that beast. Jared DeMarinis: it's a vicious cycle. When I come out and correct the record, it's very boring and, no one cares about it. I issue press releases all the time and like, "Uh." Dori: Cause facts are boring, and that, that's frustrating. So do you see... I mean, the, in, in politics in the US, we tend to see sort of the pendulum sway on any number of issues. Dori: Do you see sort of a path back to a place where elections are sort of sacred, and the peaceful transition of power is a given once again, as it was for most of our history? Jared DeMarinis: I'm a glass half full person, so yes. And the thing is, our children are growing up in a society that has all the social media, has the TikTok, has all, all these, like, things that are being inundated with them, and they're knowing how to decipher th- this stuff. Jared DeMarinis: Additionally, I've done international elections, and they've been dealing with Russian interference for decades, and they can decipher it. So [01:31:00] I'm very hopeful that we can get to, back to a, a new normal of trust and, transparency in elections. Dori: Well, I hope you're right. Thank you so much for joining us. Dori Henry: So those were some interesting conversations that we had while down in Ocean City for the Maryland Association of Counties conference. I will say perhaps this podcast episode is a great example of why the MACO conference is so valuable for people who work in and around state and local government in Maryland. Dori Henry: It is an opportunity to speak to many people in one place. You get to check a lot of boxes and get a lot of, conversations under your belt. And I think Josh and I really appreciated the opportunity Josh Kurtz: Yeah, I think it's worth pointing out that we didn't pre-schedule any of these conversations. We literally grabbed folks as they were passing by for all intents and purposes, and that is one of the, the serendipity of not knowing who you're gonna run t- into is one of the nice things about these conferences, my cynicism [01:32:00] about the receptions notwithstanding David Nitkin: Yeah. Thank you guys for fueling my FOMO. This year I was not able to be there, but fingers crossed we Maryland Now is even more widely listened to than it is now and next summer the banner flies just as brightly and everybody stops by the microphone again. David Nitkin: You did a David Nitkin: great job Josh Kurtz: Thank you Dori Henry: Thanks for listening to this episode of Maryland Now, brought to you by Blended Public Affairs. Thanks to Nate Carper from Carper Creative for technical assistance. If you have any questions or comments or ideas for us, send them to Marylandnow@blendedpublicaffairs.com. Make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss an episode