Latest / Deeply Well with Devi Brown / Soft Landings for Hard Days with Jovian Zayne

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Soft Landings for Hard Days with Jovian Zayne · Deeply Well with Devi Brown

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well. This show is a soft place
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: to land on your journey, a space where we explore
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: what it truly means to live well from the inside out.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Not perfectly, but honestly. This is Deeply Well. Welcome back
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to Deeply Well. I'm Debbie Brown. Today I am joined
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: by my dear friend Jovian Zane, an executive coach and
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of the On Purpose Movement. Through
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: her work with organizations including Google, Spotify, Meta, and Harvard University,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Jovian has helped people think more deeply about how they lead, grow,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: and care for themselves along their life's path. Her new book,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Soft Landings for Hard Days, is an invitation to meet
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: life's difficult seasons with compassion and grace. Jovian explores the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: pressure so many of us feel to keep performing even
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: when we're exhausted. And she offers ways to honor our feelings,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: recognize our worth, and make room for joy. I am
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: so looking forward to talking with Jovian. My Lord, I've
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: been waiting for this all week. We are going to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: dive into what it means to be gentle with ourselves
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: while navigating the real demands of life and how we
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: can create a softer place to land when life feels hard.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, my sister, Jovianne.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I am so, so happy to be here.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh. Oh, our gosh. When I tell you,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: you know, I think not everyone is fans of their friends,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: which is fine. That's natural and normal. I am a fan,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a fan, a fan of the work, a fan of
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: the practice, a fan of the show and have been. Yeah,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: and so to be here as a guest... And knowing,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: of course, we are dear sisters, it's just a joy.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So I want to say thank you for having me.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. This is such a long time coming.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: It is. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was really, really,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: really generous. Ah, that lights me up. This is such
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a long time coming. I am so excited to have
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: you in this seat. And I think, I mean, so
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: many people know and follow your work and they really,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: they get, you know, such a... such a joy. You
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: are such a natural, radiant emitter of the most authentic
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: joy possible. And when I say authentic joy, I want
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  Speaker 1: to specifically really highlight, I don't mean happiness. I don't
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  Speaker 1: mean like, performative joy i don't mean positivity i mean
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  Speaker 1: the kind of joy where you can hold someone's hand
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  Speaker 1: on their hardest day and look in their eyes with
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: your own sparkle and light and give them a little
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: bit of it to keep going like you by nature
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: by design are a soft landing.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you thank you so much that is honest um
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I know it's from the heart and it, and it
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: feels so resonant to me because my mom often talks
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: about like, you know, what's your soul name? You know,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: how would you, how would you speak on that level?
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  Speaker 2: And I think for me, my soul name is joy
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: and encouragement. Like truly that's been my most truest expression
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: of self my whole life. It's, I mean, it's the
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: thing that's made me feel the most grounded and convicted
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: and clear and also insecure and unsure and at times, outcast.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Because I think our real expressions do both and, as
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: the messiness of life really is. But that's me.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, that is so good. I want to even offer
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: that to everyone right now. You might want to pause
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: this episode and write it down in a journal. What
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: are the words of your soul? I've never heard that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I've never heard that. That is really gorgeous. The first
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: thing that came to me as you were saying that,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I was like, Ooh, maybe for, this is my first draft.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Maybe for myself, it's communicator and companion.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Uh-huh.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yep. Yes. I love that.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: For sure. For sure.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You said something that I want to get to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: a little bit later in the show, actually. Yeah, sometimes
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the other nature of the call. Right? Like sometimes where.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: We can go there.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Let's dive into it. Let's dive into it. And then
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get to this because.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: You don't have me taking this shirt off.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I can tell. I have had the pleasure of having
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: an advanced read of your book.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It is so gorgeous.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: This is a really deeply actionable, compassionate, considerate, deep... supportive,
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  Speaker 1: stabilizing read. This is a book that I really feel,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to be leaning into it in this
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  Speaker 1: season of my life that I'm walking through some things.
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  Speaker 1: It feels like a faith and nervous system stabilizer.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: To God be the glory. Wow. Thank you for that.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you for that.
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  Speaker 1: The way you share in this book, the way you write,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: your tone of voice in this book is really special.
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  Speaker 1: Like it emits like such a natural safety. But then,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of course, because of your expertise, you have so much
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: process throughout the book and lived experience throughout the book.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: But the actionable parts of the book, you know, practices
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  Speaker 1: are … are something I believe in in the depths
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  Speaker 1: of my work and in my life.
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  Speaker 2: You don't play about that.
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  Speaker 1: It is all theory until you put it into practice.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: That's right.
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  Speaker 1: Anybody can say who they are, how they want to
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: be perceived. Until you get into practice with any of it,
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  Speaker 1: it's not true.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: That's right.
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  Speaker 1: So this book, I felt, really gives, for this world
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  Speaker 1: right now when we need it the most, a way
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  Speaker 1: to actionably... but also with ease, with a lot of ease.
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  Speaker 1: It's not another, this is more work to do, more
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  Speaker 1: ways you need to fix yourself. This is how you're
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: getting in your way. No, with ease, I think it
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  Speaker 1: allows people to really surrender inside and learn the art
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: of patient contemplation. Wow.
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  Speaker 2: I receive that so much. And some words that are
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: kind of popping out to me as you reflect that
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  Speaker 2: back is, you know, the ease, the stabilizing, the companionship
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: of it, the tone of voice that's felt all of
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: that to God be the glory was with intention. It's like, I,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, Debbie, you know this because literally we were
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: walking and talking all my journey, but to get to
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: the place, the stable place within myself to, transfer my
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: belief that I could do it into my daily practice
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: of it took unlearning. It took grace. It took me
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: being gentle with myself, believing I'm worthy, feeling the feelings
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: of insecurity, doubt, worry, concern. It took me honoring that
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  Speaker 2: this is a new season of life. Jovian, no, you
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  Speaker 2: have never written a book like this. You've contributed to
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: other books before, but you've never really, really put yourself
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: out there. Like other people would think, oh, you're out
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  Speaker 2: there all the time. No, I know me and I
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  Speaker 2: know what I have protected, what I will keep protecting,
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  Speaker 2: what I've held sacred. But to know that God was like, no,
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  Speaker 2: this is what I am asking you to do. I'm
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: asking you to be an instrument in this season of life,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: to let me put something through you, to play something
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: for you. I had to wrestle with all of that
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and then find joy to keep going. So the The
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: tone that you hear, sis, and the necessary companionship. I
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: think in all of it, to write it, I was
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: wrestling to find it, wrestling to give it. I was
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  Speaker 2: looking in my journals. I was talking to the me
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: who knew, because your joy and encouragement at a cellular,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: soulful level, that is who is required to show up
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: for this. Yeah. You know? Can I tell you? I
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: would say it took me six years to get through
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: this process from inception to here. And early on in
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: the journey, I remember meeting with my therapist and just,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm writing, child. This is crazy.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like going back over things. And at
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: one point she said, you know, I don't think the
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: part of you that wants to write the book has
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: been invited to write it. Like the you who said,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: sign me up. Right. Who was like, yeah, God, I'm
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: here for it. She had been suppressed. They had been suppressed.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: They were like, they just, she didn't have a, I
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: wasn't giving her space to step to the front. So
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I had to sit the part of me that wanted
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: to control everything that wanted to, you know, be so
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: stringent on the outcome that was just connected to what
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I needed the book to do for my career and
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: how people see me and what then this means for
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: our family. She needed to sit down. The part of me,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the Jojo who was like, you have this. This is
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: in you because it's actually not even just yours. This
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: is what God has assigned you to do. When she
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: got clarity and she got the runway to let go, do,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: things shifted. So it's been a process, but I am
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: grateful that it is feeling in the way I hoped
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  Speaker 2: it would.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Isn't it so interesting when you go to do your
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: big work, how it truly requires all of you?
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  Speaker 2: It requires what you're writing about. Isn't that nuts? I
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  Speaker 2: know for.
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  Speaker 2: Living wisdom. And I know for even this show, you
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  Speaker 2: have had to consistently practice. What does it mean to
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: be deeply well? What does it mean to practice the
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  Speaker 2: wisdom that you've understood, you've collected over time? It takes us.
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  Speaker 2: It requires. Right?
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  Speaker 1: It really, really requires. And I think it's so funny too,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the beautiful, but my goodness, just inner churning nature of that, right?
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  Speaker 1: It's like, It hits you by surprise and you find
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: that you become a completely different person on the other
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: side of it. So much like you just said, it's
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: also in service to your growth to the next level
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: where you're saying the fullness of what I understood and
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: how I was meant to serve for this era, this portion,
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  Speaker 1: the book actually becomes the completion of that era of
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: who you are. And then you open to the next piece.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: And it's like, it's such an emotional ride. And I
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's the case with every style of
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: book that people write. But when you're writing from your purpose,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: when you're writing from your lived experience, and there is
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: this through line of connection to the soul from you
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to others, it's just so radically transformative and profound. Yeah.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And it's really funny because I think God also gives
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: you this opportunity to confront any fears you've ever quietly
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: secretly held within yourself.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Come on with it. Yeah.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Any recurring spiritual curriculum, patterns, themes.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Like you were just invited in this process to go
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: so much deeper into all of them, the crevices. Yes. Um, it,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you talked about us walking and I think I, I,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to go here. Um, cause this
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: is going to lead us into some other juicy, juicy things. Um, okay.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So we friends in real life and.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: We'd be walking, walking. These mean streets.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: These mean streets of where we live. It was so
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: fun because I remember, I think our journey actually started
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: with our sister, Lovey.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Sure did.
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  Speaker 1: In the pandemic.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: In the pandemic.
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  Speaker 1: It was 2020. Yes. And, you know, we were all
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: on lockdown and Lovey started this really special Zoom group
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: with just a small handful of people. And we were
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the New York pixie dust. Yep. Yep. And so on Sundays,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: because we were all home all day, we would get
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: on Zoom and we would talk.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: We would just talk.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It was such a special time looking back on it,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: such a different world. And then flash forward a couple
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of years ago, we run into each other in the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: parking lot. of the summer school our kids were going
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to and literally just screamed. We were like, ah! Screamed!
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: What are you doing here?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a conference. It wasn't like a work thing.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: It was the parking lot.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: And then we find out that we're damn near neighbors.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Literally! How did we miss that? I don't know, but
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: it was right on time.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Divine timing. And so we started taking some long walks
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: together after we would drop the kids off at school.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And I remember you were still in your writing process
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: and I think I had just finished like working the book.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, we were both deeply exhausted with
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: our purpose on either side, right, of those bookends. And
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I remember one of the things that we first really
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: started talking about and connecting on, and you referenced it
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: at the top of this episode, but, you know, just
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: some of the judgment and the projection that can be...
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: thrown onto your gift, where you, especially in younger years,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: and I think, you know, a lot of people who
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: listen to this show are highly sensitive, they're intuitive, they're called,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: they're led. And so it really is, in the greater world,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: a rarefied experience.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: But dare I say, on this show, probably a more
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: common experience.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Common, yeah, yeah.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: That when you are showing up, especially as a younger person... Mm-hmm.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you have this purity about you, this pure heart, and
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: you think everyone has it. And so you're showing up
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: just happy to pour, ready to pour, also ready to receive.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And then you're kind of find yourself being thrown up
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: against people's personalities and people's inner barriers and restrictions against themselves.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: And so I guess I would love to start there.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: When you realized that that you had something special.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, gosh.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: When you realized that God was moving in and through
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you in really particular and beautiful ways, what was the
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: experience like for you of learning how to cultivate those
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: gifts and also protect them?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I appreciate this question so much because... There are
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: rare times where you can feel safe enough to really
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: explore the things that help to create who you've become
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: and who you're still becoming. But I think that's such
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: a necessary practice for expanding self-awareness, to leading to regulation,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: to just coming home to yourself, you know. There are
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: a few stories that come to mind immediately. The first is.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Hold on one second. You're going to pick up with
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the first. I just forgot to press the time clock. Okay. Fabulous. Ooh.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: We look so good.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: This looks really good. Huh? Okay.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So catch my sweat.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: You can start at first. Okay.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: First, I was told, you know, because you hear stories
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: from your family about who you were when you don't
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: quite remember, which is, it's their brand of truth. But
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: as I've gotten older, I'm like, okay, yeah, we're not lying.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: So I grew up the granddaughter of not one, but
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: two Baptist pastors. So a lot of my time, and
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I've expressed some of this to you, but some of
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: my time in the summer times, I shouldn't say some,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of my time in the summer times was
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: spent in my grandfather's churches. So we would travel from
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: North Carolina where I was raised, shout out 336, to
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: South Carolina, 803. And I would spend time at either
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: one of their churches with my brothers. And so we
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: were with our cousins there. We were doing vacation Bible school,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: all of that. And one of the things that I
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: heard early and often about how I showed up in church,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: which was whether at my grandfather's churches or at our
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: home churches in North Carolina, but particularly in Texas, where
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I actually was born, and then in South Carolina, I
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: was that toddler, that baby child. I was taking my
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: clothes off and walking around in a diaper. Like I
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: owned the place.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: You hear me?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I was strutting. I was thumb and mouth telling people
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: what to do, pointing at people. Like I was literally,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: there's a story they tell about how I had my
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: thumb in my mouth and my grandfather, again, pastor in
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: charge of people. you go. Like I am telling him
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: what to do, where to go. So I have had
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: a very clear and confident conviction about me, what I
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: thought I could do, where I could go since I
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: was really early. I've seen that transform and of course
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: be socialized and, or how I was socialized helped to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: morph that and be, I'm gentle with the word refined,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: but I've understood what it's taken and what does it
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: mean to lead people well. I think one of my
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: great gifts is communicating really tough, sensitive thoughts, ideas, and
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: experiences to a broad range of audiences. To like, you know,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: my 85-year-old grandmother who's never thought about therapy to, you know,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: a five-year-old. Like, here's why we're doing this. Here's why
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: we're not. Like, let's explore it together. So there's been
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: a drive in me to be clear and confident in
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: myself that was then further, plus with the encouragement, exemplified
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: in this story that I remember because she told me,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: but my cousin Cassandra, and Debbie, you may have this,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: you ever have that like older cousin that you're just like, nah,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you're it. Like she, cousin Cass, she like had the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: teeth that sparkled, the hair that just flowed, right? Like,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: the skin that was just that creamy brown. And she
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: just had an air about her. And she was a
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: speech pathologist, or I believe she still is, or could
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: be linguist. But she was going to do a poem
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: for one of our family talent shows as part of
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: her gifting. I remember, so we're backstage, Black Family Talent Show, whatever.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Everyone's getting ready. My brothers can sing. They are doing
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: their thing. Somebody's preparing to do flips. And here I
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: am just kind of back there pacing because I don't
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: have that clear talent that I think people would understand.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was going to be at
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the time, but Cassandra, cousin Cass is sitting down and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I can tell she's nervous. Her knee is shaking and
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: she's just kind of like trying to settle herself. I,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: being six, almost seven, she tells me this the night
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: before I got married and I called her crying and
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: just like nervous about everything, excited, but still nervous about
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: like who I was becoming. She told me, I want
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: you to remember who you've always been, right? So she's
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: sitting there, right? Back in the 80s, trying to figure
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: herself out before the talent show, nervous knee. I walk
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: over to her. She said, actually kind of skipped. I
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: sat in front of her and I was like, what's
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: up cousin Cass, how you doing? And she's like, you know, Jovian,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: I'm nervous. We got our talent show. I just, I'm
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: just trying to get ready. Mind you, she's like 15
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: years older than me. And I looked her dead in
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the eye, she says. And I remember I did. And
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I said, cousin Cass, you can do this. And I
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: put my hands on her knees. We believe in you
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: and we love you. You have everything you need, okay?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: We're cheering for you. You got it. And I just
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: like pat her on the knee and I spun around
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: on my heel and like skipped away. That is me.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: That is the most unfiltered, honest person. expression of myself.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: I want people to believe that they are who they
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: are meant to be, that they have what it takes,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: that they are okay. And I don't want to be
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: okay in this frivolous and just unhelpful, I think, sanitized
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: nature of like, okay, because everything will be okay. I
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: don't mean that because life is complicated and hard and messy,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: but that you are in your creation, okay. And that
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: with help, if you need it, we can get whatever
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: it takes to get you to this next little step.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I just want people to believe in themselves again, to
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: see themselves as worthy, to take themselves as seriously and
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: yet as playfully as necessary to honor their full humanity.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: That is the most honest expression of me. It's not
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: always been met well, Like I'll remember this other story
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that comes to me when it's felt like, yo, people
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: didn't get it. Freshman year in college, I went to
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: University of North Carolina. And, you know, it's a really
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: big school. I'm meeting lots of people. But I've typically
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: been like, yeah, I'll be small fish in big pond,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: but soon I'll be big fish. It's always been that
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: way because I can make friends, navigate, and also just
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: like find my people and then help other people to
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: find their people. I love helping people to find where
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: they are, where they could fit. But I'll never forget
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: this girl freshman year. We were, you know, a few
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: different friends getting together or whatever. And I remember her
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: coming up to me and being like, you can't always
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: be that happy. Like, I don't believe it. Like, she
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: was just like, uh-uh. And her thing that she then
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: took to other people was like, nah, she's fake. There's
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: something up with her. I just don't believe it. Now,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: there was nothing fake about what I was expressing. There
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: was nothing disingenuous about my joy. There was nothing fake
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: about me. I wasn't pretending. I wasn't acting.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: My personality type, my style, my effervescence, I can't even
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: control it some days. My period sometimes can't even box
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: with if God's got me in that space, this is
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: where I am. You know what I mean?
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: But I remember being so hurt, Devi, and so disappointed.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: And the little toddler who was so clear and boss
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: people around, all that, I remember her feeling like she
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: took a hit that day. Mm-hmm. Like, am I not that? Like,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: you know, cause that was, you know, college or other
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: formative experiences we have where we meet a whole bunch
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: of people for the first time, but then a certain setting,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: it forces you to reckon with, well, who are you?
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: How are you showing up? You know, it's not, you're
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: not coming with your people yet. Like you defined your
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: people and they don't know you.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So those, those early experiences I remember, I remember wrestling with,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: knowing like, I know who I am. And yet that
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: was the first time in college where I recognized people
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: won't always believe you are who you say you are.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And it ain't you. It's their own stuff they're bringing.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: It's their own shit for all the reasons, their own hurt, disappointment, trauma, pain, confusion, disillusionment.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: But that would be the first of- Jealousy. Jealousy, truly, truly.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Their own expressions of, whatever they were trying to work
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: out that, you know, they would put on me that
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I would have to over time, try to figure out now,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: how do you navigate hearing that, seeing that and saying like, okay,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I don't have, I can understand the reason behind that behavior,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't excuse the behavior to the extent that
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: now I have to build a relationship with that person.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Ooh. Okay. Hold on. Let's plant in the ground right there.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Cause there's a lot in that. There's a lot in that. Yeah. Oh,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it's so worthy of being unpacked. Initial thoughts, one, and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: you know, deeply relate, deeply relate to that. I think
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: my little girl version of that was, you know, I
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: have a very bright smile. It's actually hereditary. My mom
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: has this smile. My son has this smile. It's going
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to look bright even on my hardest day if my
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: face does it, right? It's just how I look.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And I remember when I was young, I used to,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, when you grow up in harder environments
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: where there's just a plethora of young people whose needs
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: aren't being met, right? It might be a neighborhood of
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: neglect or just, you know, not a lot of nourishment
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that everyone is receiving. And so what I used to
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: get from people, if I'd walk in a room smiling
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: sometimes as.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: A little girl, would be a look of disgust.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: And people would say things to me like, ugh, here
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: you come with that smile again. If I was in
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: a different environment, it would have been like, Look at
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: that beautiful smile. Or you always walk in a room
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and light it up with that smile.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: You come in bringing the joy. Right. Yes. Right.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: But in the environments I was in, it was like,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you're always smiling about something. And then that took this
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: completely false narrative of naivete or of some kind of
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: weakness or people pleasing or just you don't go through
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: hard things.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Like, oh. So nothing bad ever happens to you. So
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: let me try to stomp your light out a little.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: You don't get to be the one to not have
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: hard things if all of us do. But of course,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: had so many hard things.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: So many.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: It's just my face. Yeah. So I remember that, like
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: feeling very self-conscious about kind of the happiness I was
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: emanating that I wasn't even aware of.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And that it had a negative effect on people. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: then I also think, you know, in something that you've
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: said that is just real, like there, we all walk.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Our path, right?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: None of us get through this life unscathed without hardship, friction, challenge.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: And because of life experience, because of support system, family
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: of origin, systemic oppression, society, all the things. Absolutely. our
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: individual's ability to weather those things is vastly different. And
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: so I think there is in some places people that
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: harbor envy against others who are resilient and others who
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: have a joy that they share or emanate or people that,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: quote unquote, don't look like what they've been through, right?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: And there is this desire to stamp that out. And
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I remember at another point in my life, someone said
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to me, I was going through something hard. And, you know,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to hold my faith for myself.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: So I was sharing what was hard that I was
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: going through. But I was also saying, you know, but
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I know I'll be okay. And I know God has me. And,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you know, this is going to work out. And I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: remember they looked at me with disgust again and said
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: something along the lines of like, why can't you just
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: stay down? Oof.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Ooh, they so mad. So hurt.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, God.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I just praise God for myself and for you that
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: it's like we've been knocked at various times by comments
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: like that, especially in younger times. Yes. It's been the
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: thorn in the side. Yep. And it ain't never stopped me.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Baby.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: One thing that's not going to happen.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Not going to do.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: No. I will never give up on myself or my life.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I will always rise and win. Say it to the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: people in the back, huh?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: And that just is. That just is.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: It's part of the design.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: That's the thing. I just want to honor whatever the
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: creator wired in us and those like us to have
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: the fortitude of belief. Because life will come and it
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: will knock you and people will try you. And I anticipate,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm not calling it in, but more people
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: will try me soon. All the things. And yet... I'm
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: serious about me.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I love when other people be like, I don't play
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: about you. That's great. Join me because I don't play
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: about me either.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Join me. Yeah, I love that.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I don't play about me either.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: And even though you have this gorgeous face and this
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: joy and this radiance, it's like you are very precisionally.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Highly specific, serious about your life and your calling.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And that's the piece that, you know, all those that
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: we were referring to can really miss. You may not
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: get it, and you may not be there yet to
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: be in peace with yourself, but I know I'm called.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And I take the time to study how God uses
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: me so that I can give more to that.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'll be honest, I think early on, and
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I give grace and just thankfulness to have The specificity
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: of how I was raised and particularly my mother's example,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: something now that in hindsight and distance from I can.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And now that I'm older and in a position where
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I can see what she was doing at my age
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: and age and I'm asking more questions and I'm trying
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: to understand what did you do and, you know, like,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: what was that like? I remember calling her Debbie at
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: one point and Georgie at this point, Georgie's my, you know,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: my daughter and she's probably, I don't know. Actually, yeah,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: this wasn't that, that long ago, maybe a year and
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: a half ago. And I'm calling because I just felt
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: like an acute moment of stress in my life. It
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: was the school and the this and the that and
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: job stuff. And George and I were traveling a lot
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: and all these different things are happening. And I'm just
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: thinking like, now I have one child. You had three
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: of us and you would travel 45 minutes. Like she
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: would have to commute 45 minutes back and forth to work.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: My dad was commuting downtown, like all these things that
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: they were just navigating. And even in their great partnership,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: I just, now that I am grown and living my
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: own full life, I'm like, we can have a blessed life,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean we don't need help living it.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: And it was a lot. So I called her like, now,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: how did you manage? Like, what did it look like?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And how did you just like find faith? What was
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: all this? And she told me about her practice of
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: going to get up early. She would start to get
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: up at five o'clock. And because our house at the
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: time didn't have space, she made a little meditative area
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: in the bathroom. And she, my dad's bathroom, like that was,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: that became her place where she would go. And I
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: can think back now and I'd be like, oh, that's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: why the daily bread was over there. Oh, you had
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: a basket for your journal. Like there was a little
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: rug there that seemed special. She created, she carved out
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the space so she could be intentional about how she
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: showed up in the morning. She gave to herself. She
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: gave to her relationship with God so she could have
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the energy, the fortitude, the insight, the clarity, the confidence,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: the joy to do life. That takes decision making. It
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: takes intentionality, right? And so anyone who's trying to, who
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: like sees that and can think, is that doing too much?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Or can sometimes- question if an intentional practice to maybe
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: stop talking to a certain person in a season or
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: to stop watching something or to, you know, to actually
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: start a new practice. If like they're second guessing it,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I think, I don't think what I know you and
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I have experienced is when you feel that gut and
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: sometimes that gut comes in the back of the knee,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: it can hit you in the cat, but when you
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: feel like, wait a minute, something's shifting with me, I'm being,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: I'm being called into something that's, there's a burden on
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: my heart. I encourage people to not let that burden
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: go because that burden is specific and intentional and it's
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: got a message for you. And oftentimes it requires that
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you do get up at 5 a.m., that you do
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: get out that group chat, that you do start responding differently,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: that you have courage to actually say a thing that
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: may be more compassionate in front of other friends and
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: kind of be like, oh, there go Jovi being whatever, whatever.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, I just have to be who
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I am because I'm going to bed with me, you know?
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: My husband is too, but I got to always be
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: in bed with me and I need to feel good
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: about like, am I still honoring who I know you're
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: telling me I am? Because at the end of it,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: that's all I got.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right?
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: That's what we have. That's so good.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. God, it's so true.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's so true. Yeah.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's really powerful hearing that story about your mom, right?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: And like creating her sacred space to tend to and
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: feed herself and her spirit so she could be there
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: for you. And it's like, that is, you know, even
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: in the eighties, it's like, what an incredible example of
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: emotional regulation. Cause that's also what that was, right? I
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: was saying like, this is my self care. This is
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: my spiritual hygiene. This is my way of, To not
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: let just the unending pressures of being an adult bleed
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: into my children so I can still greet them with
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the joy that they're worthy of and deserve. The stability,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: you know, the presence that they're worthy of. That's such
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: an incredible example. And it's also a very literal soft
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: landing experience. Inherited.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: You know, like that's incredibly powerful. It is. It is.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, I describe in my book this
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: idea that self-ladings are, they are their mindsets, their practices,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: their behaviors, they're the community we build that help us
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: to encourage our spirits and to honor God. and protect
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: our sacred humanity. So to see my mom protect her
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: humanity by stealing away from the to-do list, by stealing
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: away from even her husband, from us, to see about herself,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: to attend to her needs, to become clear about what
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: she's up to, that, like that, That 5 a.m. example
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: is one, but it's just an example of what could be, right,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: for so many of us when we have to honor
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: our humanity first before we can even decide and know
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: how to give to anything else.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: That is where you learn how.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's it.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: That is where you get your directions with clarity.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I think that's what's tough about this world
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: right now. We're moving at a pace that I think
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: has it's just extrapolated so much. God.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Like, girl.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And I know it, like we, from generation to generation,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: we've just started to take more from the land, more
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: from each other, more from like, more from life. And
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're replenishing. We're taking, taking, taking. And
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: for the sake of what? To produce more, to capitalize more,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: literally to make more money, to like, to accumulate all
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: these things. And the goal of what being... You know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I know we're sold these lies. Like, if you have
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: more of this, you'll be more happy. If you have
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: more of this, you know.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: God, that's so rich. That is such an important point.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: And part of our problem is that we have taken
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: so much. And of course, we look at it systemically.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: We've distributed our resources so inequitably. And so that's part
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: of our, like, it's people who, there are too many
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: of us who don't have the basics, who don't have homes,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: who don't have care, who are not raised in conditions
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: that are humane. And yet the pace of life has
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: us overlooking that.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: We don't have the emotional capacity to process it. I
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: think already our wiring, there's a limitation to our care
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: just in what we can even bear physically. But I
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: think there's enough of us on earth to be able
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: to attend to each of us. We're all assigned. And
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I think we're just A lot of times we're missing
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: our assignments.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. God. You know, it's so, being alive fascinates me.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Grief fascinates me. Love fascinates me. All of the human
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: experience really fascinates me. And, you know, something you just said,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it's like, I think we're always having in some way
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: or form conversations about equality, right?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: In so many various ways and layers and tiers. But
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the nuanced ways that we don't really stop and think
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: and process in relation to equality enough is like, there
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: is not enough like emotional equality in the world. There
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: is not enough like spiritual equality in the world. And
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: what I mean by that is like, no matter what
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: things look like from the outside, people are having very
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: different experiences. Very. And there are so many people walking,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: both perceivably, you know, good and bad, who don't share
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: basic understandings of like integrity, of compassion, of.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Safety, right?
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: And because of their own unique upbringings, do not have
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: equitable emotional foundation to exist in a safe way with
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: other people.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough. It's tough.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: It's tough. It's tough. And I think in layman's terms,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: like I could say emotional maturity, right? Or we can
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: talk about like some of the differences of someone that
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: goes through something hard and then takes the path of
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: the empath, maybe even potentially at times people pleaser, the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: other person that goes through something hard and takes the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: path of abuser, aggressor, narcissist, manipulator, usually the circumstances that
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: they're born from are very, very similar, right? But it's
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the road we take and it's the capacity we build
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: to be something different. When I think about your book,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Soft Landings for Hard Days, Wisdom, Companionship, and Guidance to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Encourage Your Spirit, my God, do we need that encouragement?
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: You have.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: At least 25 books in you. What made this specifically
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: the first? What were you seeing and feeling about the
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: world around us and the ways you have been working
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: with the world that this needed to be first? Yeah.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: I was seven months pregnant in the hospital. Georgie.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Georgie. Hey, my girl.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Hey, your girl.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: This book came to bear because I landed in the
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: hospital seven months pregnant, showing signs of preeclampsia.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: So scary.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: So scary. Dealing with acute moments of stress, high blood pressure.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And I remember, Devi, sitting in that bed. And the
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: feelings that came to me were shame, disappointment, confusion. I
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: felt lonely. I felt, I just felt wrong. I was like,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: how did you let this happen? You know better, Jovian. Oh, wow.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I felt like I had let Georgie down. I had
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: let myself down. I had let George down. I was like,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I remember getting the news that I was going to
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: be pregnant, standing in the bathroom looking at that stick
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: being like, okay, here we go. And I made a
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: promise to myself then. I held my stomach and I
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: was like, To whoever is growing inside of me, I
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: will love you and I will protect you. And so
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: fast forward to being in the hospital seven months pregnant
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: because I had taken on what I thought was going
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: to be my dream client. Turns out it was a
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: nightmare client. But my desire to before I went out
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: on pregnancy leave or maternity leave to my commitment to
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: be seen as competent, relevant, capable, to stack money, to
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: just be that girl while also committing to nesting and
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: preparing for this new chapter. They were here. They were
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: competing commitments. They were not going to coexist well. I
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: hadn't rationalized and reconciled how I needed to renegotiate my life.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: So I was pushing and pushing and the things and
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the skills and the tools that I had to try
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: to manage that other client well Out of my life,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't lean into them for all the reasons. And
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be seen as this and this and this.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: So I was in that hospital. And I felt... It
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: was a hard day. It was an incredibly hard day.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to call anybody. I didn't want to
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: tell my parents. I remember George just got in the
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: bed with me. And I like after I had great doctors,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: praise God for that, because I know there are so
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: many women who are like me who end up in
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: the hospital with preeclampsia or show signs of it later
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: who don't have the same type of care. I just
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: want to say that. So it makes it already hard
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: day harder when it's exacerbated by a systemic issue of
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: the lack of of care we get specifically as black women.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: That experience stayed with me and it still stays with me.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: for a long time. The mix of feelings I had,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: knowing I shouldn't have felt ashamed, but I did. Knowing
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: that I had what I needed to still come out
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: of it, but feeling frustrated that I even let myself
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: get there. I.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Found my way to a softer landing not that day
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: but over time through the love and care of friends
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: who when I finally said what was going on how
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: they held me how I felt their warmth through the
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: phone their empathy just like wrapped me in a blanket
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: how my mom and my dad were there how George
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: was the the quintessential love of my life and how
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: he supported held and sturdied me you know the people
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: that rallied around me during that time became clearly my
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: soft landing, as so many people have been in the past.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: So I fast forward and this book became, and even
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: the phrase of it became so clear because I would
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: look back at journal entries, notes that I had written
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: myself through my first year of pregnancy and through the
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: first year of being a mom, days that are so hard,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: you know, when you don't know what's going on. And
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: I delivered Georgie, you know, right into that pandemic. And
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: so what we thought was just like temporary hibernation, you know, hey,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: no flu shot, can't come, became necessary isolation. And we're away.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: And so that first year of motherhood felt so hard, bro.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I was like, I need my people back. I need someone.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: We couldn't hire him. We're wiping down yogurts and in
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: the park with masks. And thank God I'm on the
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: phone with y'all. But it was hard. So hard. It
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: was so hard. And so the notes that I would
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: see and I would write myself, they became thematic of
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: the things that... Called me back home. That helped me
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: to hear God more clearly. They were the reminders to
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: be gentle with myself. You've never been a mom before, Jovian.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Don't act like you're going to know what to do.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: You don't ask to believe and remember I'm worthy to
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: be helped. So get that ask language up and ask,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: you know, the invitation to just feel how I feel.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: It sucks today. Or like, this is really great. Feel it.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: You know, those invitations were great. the themes that became
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: clear in the book and the soft landings for hard days,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: back to this idea of the people being the thing
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: that help you. For years, my girlfriends and I, we've
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: gone to New York City. This is my girlfriend crew
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: in New York. We really like, we raise each other.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: And you know what New York is like. It can
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: be a place that can be really hard. But every
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Christmas time, the holiday season, we get together and we
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: have this dinner. And so now those of us who
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: live outside of New York, we still travel back for it.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: A few, well, when I was writing the book early,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: early on, I went back and we have prayer before
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: we eat and it was my turn to pray. So
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I prayed. And at one point I said something like,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: you know, thank you God, because in a city that
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: can be so hard, you've helped us to all land
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: softly or like to be the soft landing for each other.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: And one of my home girls was like, girl, did
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: you hear what you said, baby? That was a phrase.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: And I felt it, but I had heard it already
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: in myself. It was like the... The script came forward
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: just in that moment because it was true and it
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: was real. And I'm known to have being said or
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: having said that you can't be your best self by yourself.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: And so in essence, soft landings for hard days speaks
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: to the need to find the people, the practices, the
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: acknowledgement of self that help us to land just a
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: little bit more softly. The companionship, the encouragement, the wisdom
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: from people who have done it before you And those
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: who are right with you to help you land a
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: little bit more softly on the inevitably hard days that
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: will come. Yeah.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I really honor what you shared about your
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: experience in the hospital. And I think something that is
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: just so resonant for all of us living is like,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: many of us living is knowing, having a moment where
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: you have the experience where you're asking yourself, you know,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: did I let my life down?
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I was shook.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most grievous, painful places to be
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: with yourself.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I was shook, girl. I was like, I know you
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: didn't beg to be pregnant, work all this time to
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: not get pregnant, then to get pregnant.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: And then, and risk it and risk it. Girl, what? Yeah.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Like I was, but that's the thing that was that
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: specific experience for me, but I know there are so
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: many of us who this, that example just is, is
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: one that exemplifies the pattern of life is hard and
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: difficult and we have competing commitments. And particularly as black women,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: oftentimes it is this, underlying assumption that's become this limiting
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: belief because we've seen the facts that I need to
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: be seen as this. My education or my qualifications will
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: provide more safety or I need to make sure I
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: position myself for this for when the hard times come
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: because we'll get laid off like a million of us
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: have now, right? Like we're always trying to negotiate our humanity.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And we negotiate ourselves oftentimes out of it. And what
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: ends up being centered while we've pushed our humanity to
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: the margins is this commitment to the larger systems that
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: are stripping us of ourselves. It's to capitalism. It's to individualism.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: It's all these things that just push us away from
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: being seen, from being held, from being in community with
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: one another. I, you know, I'm an executive coach and I,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: what is in this book for a fact represents so
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: many of the themes in my conversations over now 10 years.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: And I'm talking at like the C-suite level to entry level.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: There are so many patterns and specifically to women, but
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I would say women, for those who identify as cis
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: men as well, um, specifically hetero, though, uh, I would
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: say also depending on, actually I could, yeah, this is
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: reflective across a number of different demographics. There is this, um,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: experience that many of us have when we are confronted
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: with an external opponent, if you will, when we're confronted
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: with racism that wants to say, we don't belong, we
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have, we're not enough, and we are less than,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: or sexism, or capitalism, I can go down the list, right?
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: We have been trained to then second guess us. We
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: are harder on ourselves than we are on the systems
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: that are failing us and that are dehumanizing us. And
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: I know that we have our activists and there are
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: moments of our own individual activism At an external level, yes.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Need that, have to have it. It's got to be
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: in lockstep. And in my work as a coach, what
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I've seen is like the necessary practice and importance that
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: we determine, okay, when I'm confronted with this, how do
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I notice a name? Oh, that's a system at play
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: that's telling me I can't do this. I shouldn't do this.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: That is not a call for me to second guess
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: my worthiness. That's not an invitation for me to think
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: that I don't belong. inherently the system may have tried
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: to wire it the game is rigged to say a
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: black girl from North Carolina you can't whatever whatever but
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: that's not what God said that's not how I was
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: created that's not that's not actually facts that's the fiction
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: that we've all now believed but I don't have to
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: like inherently in my gut nah the world has tried
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: to make a second guess take less And I know why,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: like I'm not gonna act like I come from a
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: family of civil rights leaders. I get it, my mom
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: integrated schools. I know, I can speak to all the
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: larger stuff and it's necessary to acknowledge them because they
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: are the things that for many of us who live
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: on the margins because of our intersectional identities have to
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: contort ourselves to fit around, have to maneuver through, have
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: to negotiate with often, right?
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: That part. You know what's so wild too? God, and
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: this is such powerful and important reframing because our nature
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: and also just culturally, when you go through so much
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: hardship for so many centuries, you have to develop the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: things to literally stay alive. And prior to this work
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: being more available on earth, and by work, I mean
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: advanced consciousness, right? And a thing being called a thing, right?
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Like us being able to see things more clearly as
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: having psychological and spiritual language that's grown, that's very specific
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: to the last decade, especially. Prior to having all of that,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your way to survive and keep going was you had
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: to be delusional, right? Like you had to do two things.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: You had to, for the most part, push away any
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: real feelings, right? So in so many households, there is
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: this barrier to true familial intimacy. So that's one thing
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: to try to keep yourself safe because you can't bear
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: the thought or the feeling of the inevitable bad things
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: that could and may come to people you love, to
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: their bodies, to their lives, right? To your own. And
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: then there becomes this performative positive nature that you take on, right?
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: So for many of us in childhood, it was being
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: in spaces, even in the church, where people weren't saying
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: what's real or where you weren't even feeling safe enough,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: open enough to share the real hard things that were
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: happening with you, the eras of family secrets, community secrets, right?
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: So there was always this performance of And some of
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: it was absolute useful necessity. But this performance of look
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: the part.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Smile the part.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Put on this big performative joy of celebration.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Or just be okay.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Right? I'm okay.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I'm good. You know, like all of this, right? Blessed
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: and highly favored. Yep.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Blessed and highly... Too blessed to be stressed.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Blessed and highly favored. Yeah.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Listen, right? And it serves purpose when it needed to,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: but we've outgrown that as a species. We have new
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: things to work with. So, you know, I feel when,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: hold on one sec, because I done lost my thought.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Hold on.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Baby, I'm with you.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Where did we come from? Hold on. Let me come back.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: What made me say all of this?
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: What was the last thing you said? I'm just talking
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: about the larger systems at play that make it harder
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: on us. Okay. Thank you so much. But we can
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: go with it, like the church or just like the
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: not being able to feel your feelings.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: So without the information that you just powerfully expressed about
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: being able to name the barriers and the systems at
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: play and just the truth and reality of what is,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: without that, you can't ever be free, right? You can't
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: ever be more than that performance in so many ways.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: There is no way to go deeper in intimacy. You're
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: always going to hit a wall. When we can name
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: those things, it's not giving them power and it's not
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: an excuse, right? Like I think also sometimes you don't
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: want to call a thing a thing or or call
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: the hardship the hardship because it feels like, well, I
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: don't wanna make excuses, I'm strong, I can do this,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: I can do that, right? Also fear of receiving support,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: any at all. But when we can actually just truthfully
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: and honestly name the things, doesn't always mean we can
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: change them, which we're all very clear on, right? But
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: the acceptance of being able to name it, it doesn't
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: call it in, it doesn't solidify it, It allows you
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: to give yourself the grace, compassion, self-forgiveness, and love that
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: you are worthy of, that you deserve, and that is
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: actually the component, the piece, the mechanism that is necessary
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: for you to transcend it, for you to have a
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: life that feels well-lived and Even still and even if
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: those things don't and can't change in our lifetimes, right?
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: I will give myself the humanity they want.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: I will give myself the space to make mistakes, the
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: space to pivot and evolve, the space to be complicated
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: in my emotions.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give it even if you won't. And
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I will demonstrate to you that I'm going to give
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: myself this because I know I'm worthy of it. I
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: think back, I'll never forget this. This was during the pandemic.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: So we're still inside lockdown. I think this is when
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: we thought we were going to be out and then
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: we came back because everybody was out too fast. And
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: it was like, uh-uh, Delta said, no, no.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: That little switch.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Sit down, baby. So back in the house, I had
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: taken on this big work with, I won't even say,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: but client I worked with a ton. And they brought
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: me on last minute to do something. I don't like
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: doing things last minute. I rarely do it, but The
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: check at the time was meaningful and actually liked the work.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, cool. And I thought the
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: partners were going to be great. They were. But this
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: one call that had been scheduled last minute, I'd forgotten.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: Totally forgot. Why did I forget? Because Georgie, at this point,
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: she's maybe on in some change. was having a breakdown.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: George was literally in, at the time, a converted walk-in closet,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: which had become his office, across from Georgie's nursery, performing.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: He was like DJing for this other big client because,
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: you know, that was a thing then. So I couldn't
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: get him.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: But just a shout out to George because you have
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: an amazing husband. And the two of you together, like, oh,
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: so inspiring. He's a beautiful person, as are you.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Shout out to you, babe. So George is over there
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: doing his thing, right? I am like, okay, wow, let
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: me take care of Georgie. Look down, realize I'd missed
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: the call. I get her situated. I send a message
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: like I'll be there when I can, whatever. I remember
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: before I got on the call, I felt this, I
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: don't even know what to call it except for this
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: new resolve and confidence that I had it. I can
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: give nothing else credit except for God. It just came
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: in and it was like, you're fine. They needed you.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Get what you need. Do not bend over backwards. Do
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: not overly apologize. Acknowledge what's real. Acknowledge their time, but
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: do not shrink in this moment. Real mom, real circumstances.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: This is real life. We're in the pandemic. act like it.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Like I heard that clearly, act like it. And that
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: was my moment to lead. You know, girl, these are
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: two men, super senior, again, massive company. And I'm doing
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: like this because I remember how I positioned myself before
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: I got on the Google Meet. Got on there, And
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: I was like, hey, guys, I know I'm behind. Thanks
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: for waiting. Listen, you probably can hear in the background.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: My daughter's still a little antsy. Y'all know I'm new
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: in this space of motherhood and managing work. And it's fun,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: but it's a new challenge. We've got a lot to
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: get done today. But I want to ground before we do.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Would you join me? I want to take a few
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: deep breaths before we get started. You're probably coming from
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: crazy stuff, too. So you might appreciate it. What do
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: you think? Can we do it? And I remember I
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: did like this, like, come on, you're already here with me.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Let's do it. And I remember they both were like, yeah,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: oh my God. Wow. Yes, please Jovian, let's. I welcomed
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: them into the practice I needed. I did not discard
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: my humanity because I was late. I got all of
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: us on time for what mattered. We centered, we got grounded,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: and that was one of the best calls. And they
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: both together and then separately acknowledged and told me how
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: much it meant to them, why that moment mattered, how
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: they're going to try to do that with their teams too.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: I've held that so close now, years later, as a
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: reminder of do not push your humanity to the margins.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: Recognize what it is that you need. That was a
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: moment of me giving myself a pretty bold self-landing. In
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: the face of others, if I didn't know if they
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: were going to give it to me or not, but
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: I knew I was going to ask for it. I
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: was going to invite it in. And if they would
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: have responded differently, I probably would have pivoted in a
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: smooth way. I trust that God would have given what
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: I needed, but I would have been able to do
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: it because my pivot foot was down. You know, when
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: you pivot in different directions, you got to know what
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: you're planted in. I was planted in my humanity, planted
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: in Jovian. You deserve to be acknowledged for what you're
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: up against right now. And that you missing a call
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: for a few minutes doesn't make you incompetent, doesn't make
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: you less stand up, make you incapable. They still need you.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: And if all of a sudden they're deciding, wow, well,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: she's not who we need because she's a few minutes late.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: You're right. We are not meant to be together. And
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: I pivot. Yeah. But I knew what I needed to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: be planted on. That, like how you can land more softly,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: I've learned over time, is how you first recognize what
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: you're planted in. Girl.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And that's such like valuable permission. Yeah.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: You know, that's so much of it, right?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Like giving yourself permission that then gives others permission. You know,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: you and I both, we believe in you got to
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: teach people how to treat you.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Listen, they're going to learn.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: They're going to learn today and remember tomorrow. That's how
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like I am. It's always a practice. And sure,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: things will change because we change. And now I need
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: new things. That's normal. That's a part of it. But
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I think a part of giving yourself a soft landing
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: is letting yourself and others you love and those around
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: you have the necessary space to evolve. To be complicated
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: because that's human. Right? We are so complex.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Girl. We are so complex. You know, right now I
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: feel really called to ask you something highly specific based
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: on what we kind of started this show with. Talk
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: to me. about how you have boundaries for your gift
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: and also how you respond when people are misreading you, misunderstanding,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: misjudging you. And I think most especially, because I think
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: people with pure hearts, those that take on maybe some
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: harder edges The assumption is having an open heart is
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: a weakness, right? Because they have a fear of their
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: own vulnerability. So sometimes they get the wrong one. And
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: they think they're going to come up to... the joyful, pure-hearted,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: forgiving person and think that that means some type of
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: domination or hierarchy, right? So for people that experience that
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: in life, in their gifts, or in the workplace, or
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: their disposition is not naturally combative or competitive, share with
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: us ways, tips, and tricks to really own who you
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: are Also make it very clear what will not be tolerated.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: I love that you're asking me this because you already
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: know I don't play about me. I don't. I don't
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: play about me, but I'm also very honest about what
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: I got going on. And I am a tender spirit
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: and I'm not impenetrable. I don't plan to be. I
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: don't want to be. I don't want to be a machine.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I want to be fully humaned. um, heart forward because
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: that's how I also can be used best by God.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: I can be utilized and, and, and an instrument. That's
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: what I'm committed to. Cause I felt the, the sheer
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: devastation and like disconnect the self when I have not
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: been that.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: So that is a part of the clarity. I think
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: of my boundaries is like, I know what it's like
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: for me to be holed up in my apartment or
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: like wrestling in bed, not sleeping when I felt, um,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: disingenuous to me yeah that that is a that's not
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: pain I'm willing and wanting to come back to so
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: my one of my best friends IJ she says I'm
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: the empress of boundaries and I um I try and
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: and shout out to to Nedra and her incredible work
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: about boundaries and how she makes it clear but my
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: practice is really deal with me knowing what is best
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: for me to protect and honor who I am Like
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: everything is without, at this point now, I don't even
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: think about it. It's just like that filter. It's like,
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: am I going to be not necessarily safe here, but
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: am I going to be well here? And when I
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: say safe, actually that's not even the word. I do
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: choose safety, but am I going to be, it's not
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: that I'm running away from discomfort because discomfort is, I
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: need to be there often, but am I, is this
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: where I'm assigned? Is this someone who am I assigned
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: to be in relationship with? is this a person who's
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: assigned to my family? Because at this point, it's not
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: really just me. It is me and George and Georgie.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: And then also our crew. I'm very tribal in, I think,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: an important way, because again, you can't be your best
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: self by yourself. So I take my relationships really seriously
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: because you are getting access to really special people. And
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: I mean that And I hope everyone would feel that
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: way about their community. But I know that about mine,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and I think the people around me also
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: have important work to do in the world. They're creating
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: art that's going to change people's lives. It's the soundtrack
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: to people's, you know, their weddings, their, you know, what
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: people write to and all the things like I am
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: really sacred. I hold sacred my relationship. So when I
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: think about my boundaries, I am thinking about should this
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: person have access to like the truth of who I
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: am in fullness? Like do, and am I assigned to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: the specifics of their life? Like, do I have, am
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: I meant to have capacity in this season to really
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: walk with them? And that's what I think is important
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: in relationships. Not everyone requires the same kind of handholding.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: Like you're not supposed to be like this with everyone,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: but I think there are many seasons where you are
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: with certain people. And so this is, this will give
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: you an example of like how practical I can be
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: about it. One of my other best friends, Amber, and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: I've had the same best friends for a very long time.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: And now I have other dear friends, right? Like you
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: were one of my dear, dear friends because I believe
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: we are assigned to each other to support each other,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: to hold each other. We have new capacity to help
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: each other do what we're called and meant to do.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: And that's from carrying groceries to raising these children, right?
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: But so Amber's birthday is at the beach. We're having
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: a good time. She has new friends there. I don't
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: know all her friends. Cool, fine. And there's one woman,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: we're having a great conversation. She's really nice. And I
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: know at another time in my life, I'd have been like,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: oh my God, let's exchange numbers. Let's talk. One thing
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: I've gotten really comfortable with is just recognizing when this
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: is someone I've had a nice experience with right now,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: but that's not necessarily supposed to translate into let's begin
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: to text. Let's begin to expect each other to show
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: up in each other's lives more than perhaps online. It
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: There are so many people that I meet now that
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: I just understand not everyone am I meant to be
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: in relationship with. I can have a moment with. We
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: can exchange good energy. We can support each other in
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: a moment. And that acute moment could be enough, right?
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm with that woman. She's really cool and everything.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: And she said, oh, my gosh, I'm really looking for
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: new friends. Like, can we talk again? Can we hang out, whatever?
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: And I knew at that moment in my life I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: was literally at my brink. And I have been over
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: my brink before. I was like, I'm trying not to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: do that. And I told her and I was like, girl,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: I so appreciate you asking that. Like, I feel really
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: honored that you would want to be friends with me.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: And I, to be honest, cannot wait to like be
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: in contact with you again too. But the truth is
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not even gonna hold you. I have like no
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: capacity to carry new friendships right now. I would hate
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: to start texting and then like never talk to you again,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: or you want us to really begin to build something.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: And I just know I'm at my brink. I was like,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: I do not want to start off that way. So like,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: I hope I'll see you again. And I'm sure I
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: will because you're friends with Amber. But I don't even
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: want to pretend that I got more than what I do.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: And she was like, she literally was like, well, damn.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a little like, but also, wow. And
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: so she was like, you really, she was like, I cannot.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: I can't be mad at your honesty. You told me
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: the truth and I really appreciate that. And we kept
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: talking and it was all great, you know, and I
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: haven't seen her since, you know, to my surprise, but
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: I try to be honest about what's real.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: I love that so much. Yeah. I have a similar
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: practice to that. I love that so much. It's, it's actually. Yeah.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: it's so powerful to do and it's honorable to do.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I think so. Especially now we're in such a place
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: now where we're using relationships as currency. And again, back
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: to that extracting experience of like, we try, you know,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: we go to these networking or these conferences and take, take, take.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: And then we never follow up with the person. Then
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: we wonder why, like, we feel badly about it. Cause
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: you weren't even meant to be in relationship with them. Like,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: You were just supposed to be in the same room,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: I can barely manage to like things from people that
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I love.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: That you actually really love.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that's so
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: real and it's really valuable for people to hear that
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: that is a path forward, especially in our era of
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: so many yearning for community. Yeah. And yearning for friendship
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: and sisterhood and all the things. And it's like, you know, I.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: It's hard and I find it unfortunate when I don't have,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: because of my life circumstance and my own needs, I
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: don't have capacity to stay in constant communication with some
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: people that wish to. Because it's so easy for that
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: to evolve on their side to a resentment, to a
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: self-judgment against themselves.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Creating completely false narratives of ways they think I'm judging
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: them or what they think isn't enough about them or
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: false narratives about me. And it's just, baby, I'm a mom.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: I'm averaging five hours of sleep a night. I got
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: my own spiritual curriculum I'm moving through.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm barely able to see the people that I've
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: already had lifetime of investment with. So it is not personal.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Can we just be fond.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: Of each other? I love that phrase.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: I'm fond of you. I just don't have space in
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: my life to invest anything anywhere else. And I also
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: at this moment, very gratefully... my needs are met in
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: my friendships. Right. So I don't have an empty space
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I need to fill, you know? So, but can that
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: be okay for all of us?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: You know, I, first I just want to say, can
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: we be fond of each other? I think that is
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: so romantic in the not romantic way, but romantic in
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: the very honest, just pure romantic way. That's so kind.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: And I, I, I honestly, I think I'm fond of
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of people and I should express that to them. Um,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: And I do what we're talking about. I hope it's okay.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I think what's real about this time in life that
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: we're in, and I know we are, you know, aged, aligned,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: but this season, it's for all of us who find
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: ourselves in this middle, you know, where we're also, it's,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: we're in the prime of our working years, they say,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: but also it's never been harder for us in our
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: generation to work together. So many of our peers aren't working.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: We are also caregiving, whether it's for our littles or
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: for the elders in our lives or even friends. Like
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of friends who are dealing with
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: breast cancer and other friends have showed up as roommates,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: new roommates, as caregivers. I really want to honor the
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: necessity of community, the necessity of friendship, the necessity of
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: relationships that are meant for you. And it is my
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: prayer for everybody who's just hearing us and who is
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: like us, Devi, who's like the deeply sensitive, who's feeling,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: who's like well-intentioned, that we take time to pretty consistently
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: reflect on, all right, in this season of my life,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: who do I need and who needs me? Like, I
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: think that both of those questions, right? Like, who do
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: I need and who needs me? Because there is... there's
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: purpose in both. And I think purpose can be fulfilled
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: both ways in that. I think there's new things that
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: come alive in it. And I'm grateful in this season,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: particularly as I've been writing, Lord, Child, my friends have,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, there have been friends who've been rock solid
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: with me through it. Like, literally walked with me. Like,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: you and Natalie, my girls from Carolina, Ajay, Maya, Flo.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I could go down. Let me stop naming
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: because people are like, girl, you ain't say my name. Baby,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: I'm saying your name. You already know. You know who
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: you are. But all my people, husbands specifically, who've just, Marquita,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: who've had, like, the capacity to.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: Picked me up when I was face down, who, love,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: he gave me the specific advice I needed, who Morgan
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: reread and read again and again and again, who just
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: like would pour into me. This book was my mountain
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: to climb, right, for this part of my life, and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: I needed very specific friends for it. But I know
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: we all have, and I love when you use that
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: language spiritual curriculum, like I'm just obsessed, but we all
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: have that thing.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: For different seasons, that's the hard thing. It's our mountain.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Could be going through a divorce. Could be going back
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: to school. Could be a new health journey. But I
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: think in that, in all of those, there are people
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: who are meant for you then. And you're meant for
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: certain people then. So they could witness up close and personal.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: Up close and personally, I should say. They could witness
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: the journey. It will inspire their own testimony. It will
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: inspire new courage and faith for them. It will remind
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: them what's possible because they will see it. They will
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: have the details of it. They'll have the specifics to
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: go back to. Y'all have shared stories together. So they're
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: scaling the mountain with you because the mountain, when you
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: reach whatever that top is, because you're going to go
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: back down, is only better because you got your people.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm really grateful in this season that I felt
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: clear about who my people have been. And it's not,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: I don't feel like I've had to leave people behind,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: but I've had to have called certain people up.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As we get to the end
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: of this episode, at the end of every episode, I
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: invite our guests to share a integrative practice.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: Our soul works.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: And it's a whole book of soul work. I'd like
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to invite you now to share some soul work with
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: our listeners.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. I've almost cried like eight times during
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: our episode. May I read from this, please? Oh, please.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: You are such a gift, Evie Browne.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: My goodness, do I feel the same. Truly, truly, truly, truly, truly.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Even waking up and the first thing I see this
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: morning on my phone, it was like 6.20 a.m., was
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: a perfectly timed prayer from you.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: Of course. I got you. I got you. Yeah. Okay.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to read, let me just say that
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: this book, it is meant to be a companion, not
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: a prescription. So it's meant to sit by your nightstand,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: be in your bag as you're on the subway or
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: on the plane. And for you to choose the table
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: of contents, choose through the table of contents, your own adventure.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: So for the day your body betrays you, for the
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: day you feel left out, for the day you're pushing
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: yourself too hard, You get what you need. You go there.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: So actually, Debbie, because I want to just be a
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: companion to you, is there a particular day you feel
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: for something that's up so I can do the practice
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: with you?
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Today's a hard day.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: I think today is a hard day in.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: All the ways.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: We can also skip it, friend, because I know. Yeah.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: No, just, okay.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: It's fine. I got something.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: You stay where you are. I got my eye on you. Okay.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: Hold on.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Let me get into position. Let me do my practice.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: Hold on. I love.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: It. So I've been talking with a lot of people
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: who are in this moment of missing what was, and
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: for lots of reasons. So if that's for you today,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: or for a friend today, I hope you just ground
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: in this. I just want to read a little bit
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: to you and then walk you through a few daily invitations.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: This is for the day you miss your old life. Friend,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: what do you miss? What do you still need? I
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: sit here with you while you tell yourself the truth.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: I know it's hard to transition with ease. So many
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: big changes are often colored by a tidal wave of
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: mixed emotions. Sometimes regret, resentment, or grief. Sometimes missing the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: past feels less sudden and more like a slow erosion
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: of old comforts. But thankfully... New seasons can also bring
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: renewed joy, courage, and contentment. Today, when you miss what was,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: the old life that gave you so much, you're allowed
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: to feel the swirl of confusing and conflicting emotions. They
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: are real, and they are yours. It's okay to be
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: grateful and sad, to be hopeful and unsure. The both
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: and is your truth and it's the nuance that makes
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: up your very real, very honest, very complicated, but very
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: beautiful life. And now I want to invite you to
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: affirm yourself. You can say by holding one of your
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: hands over your heart, my feelings are indicators, not indictments.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: My feelings are indicators, not indictments.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: I have the capacity to feel many things at once.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: The things I miss remind me that I can love.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: I will continue to love.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: And now, in your quiet time with your journal, you
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: might think and reflect on these questions. I invite you
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: to consider, what is it that you feel? How are
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: your feelings informing your new needs? Hmm, I wonder, what
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: is the story you're telling yourself? Do you sense any
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: limiting beliefs in there? And now, what do you appreciate
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: about what was? And also, what are you appreciating about
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: what is your current life? And we'll close with this.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: As you've taken time to consider your answers, I want
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: you to fill in the blank. The lesson I will
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: take is... Go ahead and fill that blank in. And
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: a new commitment I will make is, and fill in
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: the blank. So beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for the
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: opportunity to offer a soft landing in this moment. Thank you, Devi,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: for being so real. For being who you are. so consistent.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: It's not the perfection. It's like the consistency of your heart,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: your intentionality in being authentic, of being truly a soft
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: place to land, and how that shows up in so
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: many ways in the detail of your home, of your
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: embodied practices, your words, your consideration. It is one of
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: my greatest gifts in this season of my life to
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: be a companion to you, to know that God has
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: assigned me to our friendship and you to me, and
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: to know that what you offer to this world, it
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: is irreplaceable. It is so divinely charged, so crafted with beauty.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: so lovingly expressed, you slow down so we can speed
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: up to ourselves in the right way. You give us
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: space to feel, to think, to consider, to be messy,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: to find ourselves again. And that is the whole point.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: The point of this life isn't to rush it, it's
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: to experience it. So Debbie Brown, thank you for helping
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: me be deeply well. I love you. You are awesome.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: So awesome.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: God, my God, my God. Thank you so much. Thank
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: you so much.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: You're so welcome.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being the embodiment of a soft landing,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: of a sweet and strong woman, of a woman of
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: grace and elegance and power and intellect. A woman with
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: radiant magnetism, but the depth of the ocean at the
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: same time. I'm so grateful for you. I'm so grateful
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: for this book. Thank you for giving it to us.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you for everything it required to get to us.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: Got me sweating, Jack.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: From seeing you and knowing you as a friend, as
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: a sister, as a professional woman of, influence and impact
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: in the world as an extraordinary mother and wife. I'm just,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for our chapter right now. I'm so
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: grateful for this era. And I'm just, I'm really, I'm really, really, really,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: really incredibly grateful for you.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: I love you. Same.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: Love you.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: Hand me this book again. All right, y'all. This book.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: It's available in all the places. Soft Landings for Hard Days, Wisdom, Companionship,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: and Guidance to Encourage Your Spirit by the masterful Jovi
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: and Zane.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Get a copy. Gift a copy as well.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: We need this and we deserve it. Thank you for
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: joining me.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Connect with Jovi in the
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: show notes of this episode. Everything is linked below and
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: also on YouTube. Comment, share. So much love to you
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: for joining us every week. Namaste. The content presented on
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: mental health guidance and does not constitute a provider-patient relationship.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: that you may have. Connect with me on social, at
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram. Or you can go
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: to my website, debbiebrown.com. And if you're listening to this
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, please rate, review, and subscribe.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: And send this episode to a friend. Deeply Well is
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and the Black Effect Network. It's
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: produced by Jacquees Thomas, Samantha Timmons, and me, Debbie Brown.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: The beautiful sound bath you heard? That's by Gerilyn Glass
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
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