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Portland's Hell House · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
All of these people were somehow connected to the house.
0:08
That is really weird.
0:09
It's very strange.
0:11
Weird for sure, and I hate it.
0:13
It's giving, let's play with a Ouija board on this native burial ground on Friday the 13th,
0:20
and then just not remember to say goodbye.
0:23
But that wasn't all there was to the story of this house.
0:27
And it's particularly dark laden energy.
0:31
Hi Cassie.
0:40
Hi Caitlyn.
0:41
Hi creepy people.
0:42
Hello.
0:43
Hello.
0:44
Oh, I'm still keeping it spooky.
0:47
Why?
0:48
All October.
0:49
She's drunk on pumpkin spice.
0:52
I literally.
0:53
Yeah.
0:54
Yeah.
0:55
Two sips in and you're like, yeah, drunk on pumpkin spice.
0:59
I am basic white bitch wasted.
1:02
Yeah.
1:03
As basic as it gets.
1:06
Oh yeah.
1:07
Who are we again?
1:10
This is PNW Haunts and Homicides.
1:13
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, we chat about true crime, the paranormal,
1:20
and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
1:23
Do you know what else we do?
1:25
What?
1:26
We do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight, intuition,
1:33
whatever you want to say into our topic.
1:35
Oh yeah.
1:36
I'm glad you remembered that.
1:38
I always remember that.
1:39
I never remember anything.
1:42
So it's the best part.
1:43
Yeah.
1:44
Here we are.
1:45
Just get to the end.
1:46
Yeah.
1:47
Or just kidding.
1:50
Or don't.
1:51
You could just listen to the whole episode.
1:53
It really.
1:54
It's great when we get those high completion rates.
1:58
Anyways, should we just get right into our topic today?
2:03
Yeah.
2:04
I'm really excited.
2:05
I know that it's rare.
2:07
I know it is.
2:09
I feel as though it may be unearned, but we'll see.
2:15
I know.
2:16
I feel like I'm going to regret saying that.
2:18
Yeah.
2:19
But basically, in Southeast Portland, there is a home that one neighbor interviewed by
2:23
local television station, Koin 6, says, "has changed hands a number of times."
2:31
Hmm.
2:32
I wonder why.
2:33
Well, I mean, probably not particularly remarkable on the surface when one considers
2:39
that many of the homes in the Moreland neighborhood were built in the 1920s or 30s.
2:45
Ooh.
2:46
So in all likelihood, many of them have changed hands many a time.
2:51
That's like a hundred years.
2:53
It is, like a hundred years.
2:56
Man.
2:58
One family lived there happily for roughly four years in the mid-90s.
3:03
Pictures of what seemed to be a normal family home in Portland were featured in the YouTube
3:09
video produced by the same television network for broadcast.
3:12
Ooh.
3:13
Coin6?
3:14
Yes.
3:15
Okay.
3:16
This home is at the corner of 36th and Lambert.
3:20
I have no idea where that is, but that's okay.
3:23
That's a Moreland neighborhood.
3:24
I don't know where that is either.
3:26
My mom does.
3:27
I'm sure she's listening.
3:28
She's like, "Hey, no, wait, that is."
3:30
She's like, "I drive by that all the time."
3:34
Don't drive by it.
3:35
Okay.
3:36
Don't do that.
3:37
Don't go near it.
3:38
Okay.
3:39
Just don't deal.
3:40
Deal.
3:41
Okay.
3:42
In the summer of 1989, 34-year-old mother, Vicki Lynn Cutsforth killed her two young children.
3:51
Myra Cutsforth, age 10, an Abigail Cutsforth, age 7.
3:56
Oh, that is, I'm not excited anymore.
3:59
I take it back right now.
4:01
Mm-hmm.
4:02
Yeah, I thought the turner-on would be rather swift.
4:04
Dang it.
4:05
Yeah.
4:06
Both had been shot in the head.
4:09
After killing her daughter's, Vicki then turned the gun on herself.
4:14
That is just so fucking sad.
4:17
Yes.
4:19
When Detective David Simpson made an official statement on behalf of the Portland police bureau,
4:25
the autopsy's were pending, but it was believed that the family had been dead for only about
4:31
24 hours.
4:33
She was connected to another infamous gunman from the Salem area of Oregon.
4:39
Lawrence W. Moore.
4:41
Okay.
4:42
Have we talked about him?
4:45
We actually kind of have.
4:47
Oh.
4:48
Yeah, this is about to get really weird.
4:51
Okay.
4:52
I like weird.
4:53
Yeah.
4:54
Well, I don't know if you like this brand of weird.
4:56
Quit ruining it.
4:57
I'm sorry.
4:58
Not sorry.
5:00
Taken from the UPI archives, dating back to September 7, 1989, the headline read, "Murder
5:08
Suicide Mom Related to Maskiller."
5:12
Oh, wow.
5:13
What a headline.
5:14
Mm-hmm.
5:15
In the U.S. and Oregon, a registered nurse who shot and killed her two young daughters
5:19
and then herself was the sister of a man serving a life term for killing four people and
5:26
wounding 20 others in a 1981 tavern shooting police said.
5:33
The woman was also heavily involved with psychics and believed in channeling with dead spirits.
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A police spokesman said on Wednesday.
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So, you know, it's not the worst we've seen, but definitely dripping with some pretty
5:51
icky, verbiage there.
5:53
Yeah.
5:54
So, let's talk about the connection, though, just briefly.
5:58
Okay.
5:59
Okay.
6:00
Are we going to get back to this spirits thing?
6:03
Uh, well, no, not really.
6:05
Why?
6:06
What does that have to do with anything?
6:07
That's the whole point, right?
6:09
What does it have to do with anything?
6:11
Wow.
6:12
Okay.
6:13
It's a little bit too much to make her look like she's deranged or she's, you know, crazy,
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which I'm, you know, somewhat argue that to kill your own children, you'd have to be a
6:22
little crazy, but something was wrong, yes, but it didn't have to do with, right, spirits.
6:27
Doesn't have anything to do with that that I'm aware of.
6:32
On May 8, 1981, Lawrence, a 20-year-old man with a brain defect entered the Oregon
6:39
Museum Tavern and began shooting.
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Oh my gosh, that's so terrifying.
6:45
Yes.
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In less than a minute, four people were suddenly slain and 20 more were injured.
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That shooting took place at the Oregon Museum Tavern, a bar that has further connections
7:00
to other violent crime.
7:02
What is going on?
7:03
Right.
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I would like to know.
7:06
It's like a threat of crime.
7:09
We've talked about it in another previous episode of the show, so I could literally go on
7:15
and on, but we can only talk at so many threads here, people, because holy hell of a sweater.
7:22
Wow.
7:23
That's weird.
7:24
I just said thread in the mirror just talking about threads.
7:28
Sweat away the, it is.
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Yes.
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So there's a series of crimes that all appear to be unrelated based on all of the facts
7:36
at least that I have, and yet they seem eerily intertwined.
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Not by the evidence, but by the people's lives that became commingled by violence, and all
7:50
of them had something to do with this house in Southeast Portland.
7:58
If maybe only tangentially, but all of these people were somehow connected to the house.
8:05
That is really weird.
8:07
It's very strange.
8:09
Weird for sure, and I hate it.
8:11
It's giving, let's play with a Ouija board on this native burial ground on Friday the 13th,
8:17
and then just not remember to say goodbye.
8:20
Sounds fun to me.
8:21
Well, it's the 14th year too fucking late.
8:24
You are shit out of luck.
8:26
You know I don't believe that Friday the 13th is bad luck.
8:29
Okay, but if you're already doing all of that others, are you, like, it's like you want
8:35
to give me a stroke, you know?
8:37
It's like you want me to die.
8:38
I really don't.
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Please don't.
8:42
You know what I'm picturing though?
8:43
I got this strong visual when you were talking about the house is like the middle of a spider
8:48
web.
8:49
I'm just picturing spider webs just attaching to everyone who has ever been in the house.
8:56
No, anyway.
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That's what I'm seeing in my brain.
9:00
But that wasn't all there was to the story of this house.
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And it's particularly dark laden energy.
9:09
Later in 1992 when it was home to a midwife, Martha Browning Bryant Crouch tragedy would
9:17
strike again.
9:19
Martha Browning Bryant Crouch.
9:24
Most of the time you will see her identified as Martha Browning Bryant or Martha Bryant,
9:31
but it's a combination of names and I don't know if maybe one of them was a married name,
9:36
one of them, you know, made in oftentimes in situations where you're trying to identify
9:43
who this person is online.
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You'll see where multiple names are tacked on so that those that knew them at various stages
9:51
in their life.
9:52
Well, no, who they're talking about.
9:54
I was like, damn, what a name.
9:56
You know, it is.
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See how I'm distracting her from talking about the bad stuff.
10:02
It's not going to work.
10:03
I heard tragedy and I was like, nah, we're going to talk about the name.
10:06
Nah.
10:07
Well, Martha was born September 11th of 1951 in Fredericksburg, Virginia.
10:16
Her car, a VW bug.
10:19
Don't worry.
10:20
You know we're circling back to that.
10:23
Okay.
10:24
Is it a bug or a beetle?
10:25
Caitlyn.
10:26
It's a bug.
10:27
It's a bug.
10:28
It was discovered riddled with bullets in neighboring Washington County in the city of
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Hillsboro as a matter of fact.
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Oh, oh boy.
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Her body was found nearby just a couple hundred yards away.
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She was the second victim of a serial killer here in Oregon, primarily Caesar Francisco Barone.
10:58
No.
10:59
We're going to get into it.
11:01
Oh, go ahead.
11:02
Okay.
11:03
I know.
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She's like, why did I ask?
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The following was taken from the Oregon affiliate of the American College of Nurse Midwives.
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Okay.
11:12
I'm going to take a breath because that is quite.
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I mean, I could have just gone with the acronym, but you got to say the whole thing so we
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know what it is.
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You do.
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You do.
11:23
Oh, you've never heard of the...
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(Unpronounceable acronym)
11:26
Yeah.
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I hear it every day.
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Martha was a treasured member of the Portland Midwifery community who was tragically murdered
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on her way home from a birth in 1992.
11:40
Oh, wow.
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The Martha Browning Bryant Memorial lecture is an annual CME event that has been held
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for over 25 years to honor her memory and remember her spirit.
11:55
Oh, that is really sweet.
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So Caesar shot at the car of midwife Martha Bryant.
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She was 41 at the time as she drove away from Tuality Hospital in Hillsboro.
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Oh, my gosh.
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Then he pulled the wounded woman from her car, sexually assaulted her, then shot her in
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the head at close range.
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Wow.
12:24
Seriously?
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Someone who brings new life into the world and this is how she's taken from it?
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That's awful.
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I just, yeah.
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And on that night she had brought new life into the world.
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Yeah.
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Just seriously fucked.
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Anyway, 7734 southeast 36th has become known as the
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Portland Hell House.
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See, I liked it for that name.
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I thought it sounded really cool.
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Yeah, but you don't like the next part.
13:00
Following the strange series of tragic circumstances that the inhabitants have found
13:05
themselves in over the years, that part we like less.
13:12
Yeah, that sucks.
13:14
Yeah.
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And so, definitely for us, it is sort of a horrific mishmash of both of our genres.
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So there's, there's that.
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I feel like it's more yours, but yeah, as it turns out, it's a lot more mine.
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Yeah.
13:31
Do you know what an even gelical Hell House is?
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It's like their version of a haunted house.
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So they basically just show you like people that had premarital sex, like dying in the middle
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of abortions and what the fuck?
13:51
Dying of AIDS and oh my god.
13:54
Having drug overdoses and that is terrible.
13:59
Yeah.
14:00
What the fuck?
14:01
Yeah, yeah.
14:03
Because my next line was literally going to be, and we're not talking about the evangelical
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Christian haunted house, kind of Hell House.
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Again, seriously, you guys, we simply don't have the time.
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Go watch the Hell House documentary though.
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Okay.
14:20
Here's the thing.
14:21
I'm not quite done yet with the topic of Caesar Francisco Barone, which is, of course,
14:30
not his real name.
14:31
Oh, it's not.
14:32
Nope.
14:33
Oh, okay.
14:34
It's one that he gave to himself because he was obsessed with Italian gangsters.
14:40
Oh, okay.
14:42
Yeah.
14:43
So we're off to a really great start.
14:45
Got it.
14:48
He was born December 4th of 1960 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, which, first of all, thanks a lot,
14:57
Florida.
14:58
Seriously, girl, what is your problem?
15:02
She don't know.
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His given name was actually Adolph James Rode.
15:09
Oh, I can't imagine why he didn't want to go by Adolph right?
15:14
My next line, which, to be fair, I might have also changed, but that's besides a point.
15:21
I can't mean just call him Adolph now though.
15:23
I feel, it doesn't that feel like we should.
15:26
Yeah.
15:27
He was a violent and anti-social teenager that quickly developed problematic habits.
15:33
When it came to both illicit drugs like meth, cocaine and LSD, in addition to just casual
15:41
alcohol.
15:42
Oh, so, just casual alcohol.
15:44
Just casual alcohol.
15:45
You think he could replace the meth with the booze, maybe?
15:49
I do.
15:50
You know.
15:51
Probably, I don't think they work the same.
15:53
I don't.
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I don't think the rest isn't that bad, but the meth, yay.
15:57
I mean, whoofta.
15:58
Yeah.
15:59
As a teen, he also committed burglaries and assaults until he was arrested in the late
16:05
1970s and did some time.
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So casual teen stuff.
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Yeah.
16:13
Doing time.
16:14
Doing time.
16:15
But we apparently literally don't even make it to the 80s before he's released.
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So just to back this up, case you forgot in the last 20 seconds.
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It's arrested.
16:30
Does some time.
16:31
In the late 1970s.
16:33
1980.
16:34
1980 hasn't even rolled around yet.
16:38
And he's out.
16:40
OK.
16:41
So he did time, but not very much time.
16:43
No, not a lot.
16:45
What?
16:46
What in tarnetian?
16:47
It's fine.
16:50
Following his release, his reign of terror continued.
16:54
He terrorized his former stepmother amongst others, and I do mean terrorized.
17:01
I'm not going in depth on this.
17:05
He's the worst.
17:07
I say it every week, but you know, damn it if I don't mean it every time.
17:14
OK.
17:15
Now we made it to the 80s.
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In 1980, this dude now living his life under the name Caesar Francisco Barone.
17:26
OK.
17:27
It off.
17:28
Ugh.
17:29
Was sentenced again for several burglaries and imprisoned.
17:33
So.
17:34
Now, this is where for me personally, it reaches a fever pitch of weirdness in the story.
17:43
Following his incarceration at a prison in Florida, he attempted to sexually assault a female
17:50
prison guard.
17:51
Wow.
17:52
That's ballsy.
17:53
Yeah.
17:54
It was then that he was transferred to the Florida State Prison in Stark, where he apparently
18:02
met Ted Bundy.
18:05
Oh.
18:06
OK.
18:08
Which is like, you gross.
18:10
It couldn't pay me, but I bet he thought that shit was pretty cool.
18:15
Ugh.
18:16
Hashtag.
18:17
Hashtag never Bundy.
18:19
But here this dude is popping up again.
18:22
God, it's honestly like, where are you so obsessed with me?
18:26
Seriously.
18:27
It's kind of like, so obsessed with us.
18:28
It's creepy.
18:29
I don't like it.
18:30
I know.
18:32
And as always, the VW Bug/Bundy Association is strong.
18:38
I told you we'd circle back, but I didn't say you'd like it.
18:44
I just, I hate how it's like these common elements that they don't necessarily mean anything,
18:55
but it just, it gives you an oaky vibe.
18:59
For sure.
19:00
OK.
19:01
I needed to know that I wasn't crazy.
19:03
No.
19:04
Like, definitely not crazy.
19:07
Researching this, I was just like, you gotta be fucking kidding me.
19:13
You guys should see her not crazy eyes right now.
19:15
Oh, yeah.
19:16
Well, a short time later, Adolph James Rode, because remember, that was his real given legal
19:25
name up to this point, decided to rename himself Caesar Francisco Barone.
19:33
And it's really gross that it seems like he was super thrilled to let everybody know how
19:41
he met Ted Bundy.
19:43
And he even tried to kind of insinuate that like, oh, yeah, I got tips from Ted that helped
19:50
me avoid capture, which is like, really, you're going to take tips from Bundy on how not to
19:57
get caught.
19:58
Weren't they both caught at the time?
20:01
Yeah.
20:02
Yeah.
20:03
That was the final time that Bundy was caught, because Florida is where he was executed.
20:09
Man.
20:10
Never meet your heroes.
20:14
Then in 1988, things take a turn.
20:19
Caesar married a woman named Kathy and surprise, moved to the Pacific Northwest.
20:28
Did Bundy tell him to do that?
20:30
Right.
20:31
Fuck her.
20:32
Just, they're just doing it to yuck our young, I think.
20:37
He'd apparently been unable to hold down a job quickly running through numerous forms
20:42
of gainful employment in just a few months, which seems like something a lot of these guys
20:49
haven't gone in.
20:51
Yep.
20:52
So in 1989, he decided to join the army and even received a shooting qualification for the
21:00
M-16.
21:01
Which is just like, not super chill.
21:05
I know.
21:09
I don't like it.
21:11
He got a couple of badges, which literally makes him sound like an overgrown Cub Scout.
21:18
And for anyone else, being a parachutist and also earning a separate badge for first aid,
21:24
that'd be freaking impressive.
21:25
But I'm forever unimpressed by whatever the fuck this guy's name is, was, whatever you want
21:32
to call him.
21:34
He participated in the U.S. invasion of Panama before the end of that same year.
21:39
And now I have that song stuck in my head forever.
21:42
No!
21:43
Panama!
21:44
No!
21:45
Yep.
21:46
And just like that, so do you.
21:50
Later he would brag about his heavy air quotes.
21:55
Every exploits, stating that he had killed numerous Panamanians.
22:02
Like, not dude, that's just murder.
22:05
Wow.
22:06
Especially since he alleged that some of them were civilians.
22:10
Oh.
22:11
Yeah.
22:12
Why would you talk about that?
22:13
I don't know, but I feel like this is the serial killer equivalent of like, nice truck
22:19
dude, sorry about your dick.
22:21
Yeah.
22:22
You know what I mean?
22:23
Yeah.
22:24
He killed some unarmed civilians at a time of war.
22:30
He was accused of sexual misconduct as 1990 was first dawning.
22:36
Apparently he had exposed himself to a female officer, which, ugh.
22:42
I guess he only realized was a bad idea in hindsight.
22:46
Yeah, ex.
22:48
And no idea if the two events were related, but he was also discharged for lying
22:54
about his felony conviction after serving several years in prison previously and changing
23:01
his identity.
23:03
So here's the thing though.
23:06
I really started to fall down a rabbit hole because I was like, are we serious?
23:14
The military in one of the wealthiest countries in the world.
23:19
If not the wealthiest, I don't know.
23:21
Are we?
23:22
Are we not?
23:23
Who cares?
23:24
But we don't have the resources to do a proper background check.
23:30
I mean, even in the 90s, okay, sure.
23:35
Well, all right, let's say I can live with that.
23:37
I can't, by the way.
23:40
I'm certainly not an expert in the arena, but I don't know.
23:44
Maybe, maybe we do that before we hand people M16s.
23:51
I feel like that explains a lot about how the rest of the world sees us.
23:57
Like I have an idea, let's send a bunch of 19-year-olds that are basically barely equipped
24:02
to handle their own dicks in a restroom and also violent convicts abroad with guns.
24:09
Sounds good.
24:11
What could go wrong?
24:13
But I digress because this story isn't really about the military industrial complex.
24:20
It's about a lot of things, but somehow technically, not also that.
24:26
All right.
24:27
A lot of tangents.
24:29
Spiderweb.
24:30
It's a lot of threads.
24:31
Yeah.
24:32
Yeah.
24:34
From 1991 to 1993, Caesar, this bitch, Barone, that's my nickname for him, killed at least
24:46
four women in and around the Portland Metro area.
24:51
He also assaulted at least three other women that managed to survive in that same period
24:58
of time.
24:59
Law enforcement in both the state of Oregon and Florida suspect that he had other victims.
25:07
Let's talk about the women that we do know are confirmed victims of his crimes.
25:13
Of course, we've already heard about Martha.
25:16
Martha Bryant, that is.
25:19
She lived in our Portland hell house.
25:22
Okay.
25:23
Yeah.
25:25
He also raped and strangled Martha Schmidt.
25:30
Two Martha's on April 18th of 1991.
25:36
She was a 61-year-old woman who lived alone in her home in Hillsboro, Oregon.
25:41
Oh my God.
25:44
She entered her home and it was all downhill from there.
25:49
He sexually assaulted her and then smothered her with a pillow.
25:54
Martha's care worker sadly discovered her body the next day.
26:00
Worst of all in the case of this particular Martha was that I wasn't able to find much
26:06
information about Martha, either in life or related to her death beyond.
26:13
That.
26:14
Okay.
26:16
So that's always a little upsetting.
26:18
Yeah.
26:19
Martha's such a sweet name too.
26:21
He is so Martha.
26:25
During the early morning hours of December 30th, 1992, he kidnapped Chantee Woodman who was
26:34
his youngest confirmed victim at just 23.
26:39
He raped her, shot her and then carelessly dumped her body along US26 near Vernonia, a somewhat
26:48
rural area of Oregon to the west of Portland.
26:51
Yeah.
26:53
Especially back then it was more rural.
26:54
I'm sure.
26:55
I'm sure.
26:56
I'm a rural jackwriter.
26:57
Yeah.
26:58
Wow.
26:59
He's all over the place this guy.
27:00
He really did.
27:01
And this is where it's kind of odd, but he didn't do it alone.
27:08
Oh.
27:09
So Chantee had accepted a ride from Caesar and Leonard Darcell in downtown Portland.
27:17
The two beat and sexually assaulted her and began to drive away.
27:22
However, when they looked back, they realized that she was not only still alive, which was
27:29
apparently a surprise, but that she was moving.
27:33
Oh, I don't know.
27:35
Probably trying to get the fuck away.
27:38
The pair returned only to beat her with the butt of a pistol before shooting her in the
27:45
head and throwing her body over a guardrail.
27:49
Why?
27:50
Oh my god.
27:52
That's so sad.
27:54
A highway worker discovered her body later that day.
28:01
Literally not a single one of these stories was anything short of heartbreaking, but if
28:07
this last one doesn't get you right in the fields, you may be not dressed up as something
28:13
like the walking dead, but for realsies dead inside.
28:20
As he attacked 63-year-old Betty Williams in her Portland department, she suffered a heart
28:27
attack that would prove fatal.
28:30
Oh, god.
28:32
She had been drinking with Betty Lou Williams at her apartment during the early morning hours
28:38
of January 6, 1993.
28:42
When she went into her bathroom, he followed her, produced a weapon, and began to sexually
28:47
assault her.
28:49
He left her partially clothed body in her bathtub, where her son discovered her the next day.
28:58
Oh, her poor son.
29:01
Oh my god.
29:03
The pure unbridled rage that that inspires within me is barely contained.
29:18
Barone was arrested on February 27, 1993, so not long after, he's found guilty of numerous
29:27
crimes, but it wasn't until 1995 that he was found guilty.
29:34
So that's a long-ass time.
29:35
Yeah, it is.
29:37
That same year, he was sentenced to death.
29:41
But in any case, it wouldn't be until December 24, 2009, that Caesar Barone died at the Oregon
29:50
State Penitentiary in Salem, not of a lethal injection, but of cancer.
29:56
Oh, okay.
29:58
Which I have to say sounds even better than a white Christmas.
30:01
Yeah, I agree.
30:02
Yeah.
30:03
Hot take, but I do think that rapists and murderers should die of slow and painful and
30:09
ideally natural death.
30:14
Because biology is far crueler in most cases and willing to do the dirty work, so we all
30:19
get to at least feel like we walk away, hands clean.
30:23
Yeah.
30:24
All right.
30:25
I agree on the same page.
30:27
That feels good.
30:28
But the house in southeast Portland isn't officially 7734 anymore at this point.
30:36
And it hasn't been for allegedly going on nearly 25 years, in fact.
30:41
Oh, okay.
30:43
Yes.
30:45
Some time ago, one of the owners that the houses changed hands too and fro amongst over the
30:53
years.
30:54
He decided to officially have the street address changed.
30:59
And in fact, for many years, it sounds like the house actually hasn't even had a number
31:06
on the outside.
31:07
Oh, okay.
31:09
Currently, it has a house number.
31:12
Again, not 7734.
31:15
I can't imagine why they would want to change the address.
31:19
Yeah.
31:20
Well, there's obviously the association that, you know, it's kind of tenuous with these
31:25
crimes.
31:26
But the funny thing is, I had to watch the YouTube video to understand, why are they calling
31:33
it a hell house?
31:35
Right.
31:36
Okay.
31:37
So look at 7734, turn it upside down, and it spells hell.
31:45
Backwards.
31:46
Oh, my God.
31:49
What?
31:50
Yeah.
31:51
Let me see it.
31:52
You have to show me right now.
31:54
Oh, I see it now just looking at it.
31:58
Oh, my God.
31:59
That's crazy.
32:01
I wonder, like, who the first person was to figure that out and why?
32:06
Right.
32:07
Well, and what came first?
32:10
Did someone realize that connection with the house number?
32:15
And then it kind of had like this little bit of spooky mythology behind it.
32:22
And then all of this stuff happened and it just became like confirmation bias.
32:27
I don't know.
32:29
That is really weird.
32:30
That house that just happened to have this number also happens to be connected to all this
32:36
murder.
32:37
I know.
32:38
I know.
32:39
Something's not right here.
32:40
Yeah.
32:42
All of the crimes we've discussed today are decades old as well as the house, as the
32:49
change of the address, all of that.
32:52
And mostly the crimes are only connected tangentially to the house itself by happenstance.
33:00
So I feel like the house number is what really seals it as a hell house for me.
33:08
Lawrence committed his crime long before the tragedy took place in the southeast Portland
33:13
home.
33:14
And though one of their victims did live in the home briefly, Caesar and Leonard seemingly
33:20
have no other connection to it.
33:22
Okay.
33:23
And like we talked about at the beginning, you know, Vicky's interest in the paranormal and
33:30
afterlife, I don't think it has anything to do with the house or with the murders.
33:36
I don't think so either.
33:38
No.
33:39
So what exactly is the takeaway here?
33:43
Yeah, what is it?
33:47
Aside from our parents being seriously misguided in thinking that Hillsboro was a safe sleepy
33:55
suburb to raise us in.
33:57
Seriously.
33:58
Literal insanity.
34:01
It's that any house can be a hell house.
34:05
And if we try hard enough, there's a horrific connection to something awful that's happened
34:12
in our world in almost any scenario that you run through the simulator.
34:17
That is true.
34:19
And while I hope that gives you the spooky season scare that you're probably looking for,
34:25
I also hope that it encourages you to be safe and to look out for other people.
34:34
Yeah.
34:36
Don't go making hell houses all around America.
34:39
No more hell houses, okay?
34:41
Listen, we've got enough of this.
34:43
We've got enough, okay?
34:45
Also I want the numbers on my house so that I can have my own hell house without the actual
34:51
hell.
34:52
Yeah.
34:53
I'll make it a good hell vibe.
34:55
Yeah.
34:56
I think so.
34:57
I feel like this house could have gone either way.
35:01
I think that's sort of what I kept going back to.
35:05
Like, it's a really cute little house.
35:08
Well, I hope that whoever lives there now, since they had the address change and everything,
35:13
hopefully they feel comfortable there and there's no more bad spiderweb shooting out
35:20
of the house anymore.
35:21
Yeah.
35:22
No more threads.
35:23
Yes.
35:24
No more threads.
35:25
Yes.
35:26
Well, I have a spooky little story, a personal story, from when I visited my great grandma
35:35
in La Grande recently, which I realized I mentioned it in the last episode when we were talking
35:41
about it and editing.
35:43
I was like, yeah, and I don't sound really excited for whatever reason.
35:48
I was like, oh, I'm going to see my great grandma.
35:51
Like I didn't sound excited, but I was.
35:53
I just want everyone to know.
35:54
I don't know why it sounded like that.
35:57
Well, because I wasn't going to St. Helens or whatever we were talking about.
36:00
So I was like, yeah, I was sad about that, but I'm going to see my great grandma.
36:04
Which I didn't up going to St. Helens.
36:07
I know you did.
36:08
I went anyway.
36:09
I did both.
36:10
Woo.
36:11
Anyway, something kind of spooky happened to me while we were there.
36:15
Okay.
36:16
I'm so excited to tell you.
36:19
So my aunt, my cousin, we're staying in an Airbnb and we met up with them.
36:24
They were so spooked out about the house because it has a creepy basement.
36:30
Oh, no.
36:32
Yeah.
36:33
No, thank you.
36:34
So they were super uncomfortable with it.
36:37
They were kind of like, no, we don't.
36:39
We're kind of thinking about switching houses.
36:41
Like we don't want to stay there.
36:42
And I was like, oh, it's just a creepy old basement.
36:46
I want to come over.
36:48
Oh, my.
36:49
What?
36:50
Do you see what she does to me?
36:53
I was excited.
36:55
That's terrifying.
36:56
Continue.
36:57
So I went over to check out the creepy basement.
37:00
Of course, too.
37:01
Oh, my God.
37:02
It was definitely creepy.
37:03
I sent you a video of me going down there.
37:07
It was like an unfinished, very tiny basement.
37:11
I don't like that.
37:12
Like wooden stairs, dirt floor, no walls.
37:15
Like there was holes in the walls with storage, you know?
37:17
Yeah.
37:18
I remember I asked you.
37:19
You were like, oh, I took a short little clip.
37:22
I met this.
37:23
And I was like, am I going to be able to sleep tonight if I watch this?
37:27
Should I save this and watch it in the mornings?
37:29
Why have hours to process the trauma?
37:32
I don't think anything spooky was in the video.
37:35
Not that I recall, but I didn't rewatch it either.
37:36
I was watching it like through my mostly watching it through my fingers, like a kid in a closet.
37:43
I should give you a warning.
37:44
Like nothing's, nothing's going to pop out at you.
37:46
I'm not that mean.
37:47
Okay.
37:48
I'll warn you if it's creepy.
37:51
So anyway, we were checking it out.
37:52
I was like, you know what?
37:53
Everyone leave, shut the door and turn off the lights.
37:56
And I'm going to just stand down here for a second just to see how it feels.
38:02
Not good.
38:03
Obviously it felt fine.
38:05
Nothing happened.
38:06
Like the basement seemed fine to me, but I told them I was like, okay, if anything's down
38:11
here, don't like bug my family.
38:15
They're not interested.
38:16
Bug me now if you want to.
38:19
Nothing dead.
38:21
I'm not interested.
38:24
I'm not interested.
38:26
So I told them, you know, stay down here.
38:28
Don't bug anyone.
38:30
Mind your business.
38:31
You know how you do.
38:32
How you have to be stern with the ghosts.
38:34
Manners.
38:35
Manners.
38:36
But so I said something spooky did happen.
38:39
So me and my cousin were sharing a beer and it's a get spooky pumpkin beer from Side A Brewing
38:45
in La Grande.
38:47
They're not a sponsor.
38:48
I just really, really like their beer.
38:50
Yeah.
38:51
Don't be a run.
38:52
It's not moving on.
38:53
Yeah.
38:54
I'm an idiot.
38:55
We'll show the Patreon in our tarot.
38:56
It's a really cute little can with a ghosty dog on it, dressed like a pumpkin.
39:01
It's so cute.
39:02
So anyway, we were sharing this beer and there was me, my mom, two of my aunts and my cousin
39:09
just sitting in the living room talking and all of a sudden we hear like two chimes or
39:16
we weren't really sure what it was.
39:26
It was kind of like, "Dong, dong, sound."
39:30
We were all like looking around like, "Okay, was that something?"
39:33
It didn't sound like it was outside, it sounded like it was in the house, looking around for
39:37
like a clock because it kind of sounded like a clock.
39:40
And we didn't see anything that could make the sound.
39:43
And I, so I'm looking in the corner where it kind of came from, we all kind of looked at
39:45
it.
39:46
So I go over there and there's two gold chalices that kind of like, kind of like, "Oh, they're
39:53
kind of shaped like the ones we have right now."
39:55
But they're gold with some sort of design pattern on them.
40:00
I have the picture.
40:01
Maybe I should show you really quick.
40:03
Yeah, show me the creepy haunted chalices.
40:07
That's, they're not haunted.
40:11
Um, big to defer.
40:13
Okay.
40:14
They're in a fucking box.
40:16
They are in a box.
40:17
So these two gold chalices are sitting in a box of silk like they have their own little
40:22
nest, they can't touch, right?
40:25
So I pick them up and I go, "Cling, clink."
40:29
The exact sound we heard.
40:32
I clinked these fucking glasses together.
40:34
It was the exact sound.
40:37
And we were all like, you know, maybe something fell onto like, there was an air conditioner.
40:43
Something fell on that outside or something.
40:47
But I was like, no, that was the exact sound that we heard from that corner.
40:53
So I think I took it as, they're cheersing with us because we did, we did cheers with our
40:59
cups of beer.
41:00
Do you want a little toast?
41:02
I think they were just hanging those toes.
41:04
A little ghost toast to us and they were just saying, it's fine.
41:09
We won't, there's a really loud airplane.
41:14
I was like, "So they were just saying it's fine.
41:18
We're not going to bug anyone.
41:19
We're just here toasting with you."
41:21
And I don't know if that's how my cousin took it.
41:24
They were a little creeped out, but as far as I know, they stayed there and everything was
41:29
fine.
41:30
Okay.
41:31
Yeah.
41:32
You've heard from them since?
41:33
I think.
41:34
Mom, are they okay?
41:36
Oh my God.
41:37
I have so.
41:38
Okay.
41:39
They did tell me some spooky stories too while we were there.
41:43
Like kind of after that happened, it opened a door into spooky story land.
41:48
Yes.
41:49
Oh, I thought it was pretty cool.
41:52
They're, well, they're a little more uncomfortable with it.
41:54
They don't think it's so cool, but.
41:55
They're team of Caitlyn.
41:56
Yeah, they're more on your side, I think.
41:59
Oh my God.
42:02
But that was my fun little story.
42:04
I also stuff that Margie's outdoor store on the way home.
42:07
Oh, because we were passing right by and I was like, I got to go check out this place.
42:12
How could you not?
42:13
It was so worth it.
42:14
Yeah.
42:15
It was really cool.
42:16
We actually met James.
42:17
Oh.
42:18
Yeah.
42:19
He was there when we walked in the door and I was like, oh, hey, you were on our podcast.
42:22
Yeah.
42:23
He's like, oh, yeah, hi.
42:24
So, yep.
42:25
We chatted and I have a bunch of videos and pictures from it.
42:29
So I'm sure.
42:30
I think you've already shared some of that on the socials, haven't you?
42:34
I don't think so now.
42:35
I haven't talked about it.
42:36
From Margie's?
42:37
You just sent it to me.
42:38
Yeah, I just sent it to you.
42:40
Sometimes I get to see stuff first.
42:42
Yeah, she's in part of the show.
42:45
She gets a sneak peek before you guys see all.
42:48
She's special.
42:49
I'm special.
42:50
Well, should we do some...
42:55
Terror?
42:56
Terror?
42:57
Terror for Hell House.
42:58
Terror?
42:59
I'm excited for the terror now.
43:01
Yeah.
43:02
Y'all that were done with the murder.
43:04
Yeah.
43:05
There was so much murder.
43:07
It was so sad.
43:09
It's pretty murder-heavy even for me.
43:12
Yeah.
43:13
Yikes.
43:14
Sorry, everyone.
43:15
I'm apologizing on behalf of Caitlyn for her true crime side.
43:21
Wow.
43:22
I'm just kidding.
43:25
Okay.
43:26
You're lovely.
43:27
I mean, I have my moments.
43:34
As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.
43:39
So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
43:43
Let's show them some love.
43:45
You can find their info in our show notes.
43:48
Do you have to throw on your favorite true crime podcast before bed in order to fall asleep?
43:53
Same.
43:54
And it's the very reason that I created serial napper.
43:58
My name is Nikki Young and I'm here to lull you to sleep or perhaps to give you nightmares
44:03
with some of the craziest true crime stories that you've never heard of.
44:08
Each episode of serial napper features a different true crime story told succinctly the
44:13
way that it happened, just the facts, ma'am.
44:17
My focus is on unsolved crimes that need more attention, cold cases, and wrongful convictions.
44:24
While true crime shows can sometimes be graphic in nature, I ensure that the story is told
44:28
in a way that is respectful to the victims and their families.
44:33
Now when it's time for bed, you can look forward to 30 minutes of well researched and detailed
44:38
case files while you get your beauty sleep.
44:41
Find serial napper on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you like to listen to podcasts,
44:47
sweet dreams.
44:49
You guys were back.
44:51
And don't worry, we did get more wine.
44:54
Well, of course.
44:56
Okay, I'm going to do some shuffling of the deck.
45:02
Shuffle-dame cats.
45:06
Do you like our Hell House back there?
45:08
Yeah, dover on.
45:12
I know.
45:13
She's cute.
45:14
Okay.
45:15
Hell House deck.
45:18
Hell House energy.
45:19
I'm going to do one more.
45:22
I've got to get that H-H-E.
45:26
Okay.
45:27
I was going to keep going, but I decided against it.
45:29
You did?
45:30
Oh my God.
45:31
We got the death card, didn't we?
45:33
No.
45:34
Oh.
45:35
Double card?
45:36
In reverse.
45:37
Oh, okay, cool.
45:38
Here.
45:39
Vanna.
45:40
Okay, we got the double card in reverse.
45:42
How fitting for Hell House.
45:44
Oh, no.
45:45
Oh, bonk in the table.
45:49
That was the clothes one.
45:51
Don't spill the pumpkin beer.
45:53
Get spooky pumpkin beer from Side A Brewing in La Grande.
45:56
And they told me the dog's name, but I don't remember.
46:00
It is not a dead dog, even though it is portrayed as a ghost.
46:04
It's an alive dog.
46:06
He's dressed up for Halloween, okay?
46:07
Yeah.
46:08
Don't take everything so literally.
46:10
Bolton's up.
46:11
It's literally the best pumpkin beer I've ever had.
46:14
It's really good.
46:15
I bought two forepacks to take home and we went there twice.
46:21
Okay.
46:23
So our devil card.
46:25
Keywords are obsession, indulgence, fear, materialism and egotism.
46:33
So, I'm gonna.
46:35
Many decks picture a medieval Christian type devil complete with horns, hooves, a hairy
46:41
tail and a pitchfork.
46:43
Oof!
46:44
The right-a-way Smith deck shows two small human-like figures at the double's feet, one male and one
46:52
female with chains around their necks that represent bondage to the material realm.
46:59
Notice the chains are loose though and the people could easily slip them off, suggesting
47:04
this card is about self-imposed limitations.
47:09
When you think of the devil, what comes to your mind?
47:12
Consummate evil?
47:14
A mythical creature?
47:16
A symbol of human indulgence, ignorance, egotism, greed and irresponsibility.
47:23
Listen, lots of people are irresponsible.
47:25
It doesn't make them evil.
47:27
Okay.
47:28
I just have to say.
47:29
I think of hell.
47:30
Yeah.
47:31
Me too.
47:32
Go figure.
47:33
I think of the devil as the obsession card.
47:38
There is an extra excerpt, but we're gonna circle back to them because I want to get into
47:42
the interpretation.
47:46
Reverse the devil indicates you feel trapped in a situation over which you think you have
47:51
no control.
47:52
Hmm.
47:53
I feel like that's very fitting for this house.
47:55
Like the house was trapped as hell house until they changed the number.
47:59
I kind of think so.
48:00
Yeah.
48:01
I feel like that really speaks to me on that front.
48:04
Did you know if anyone was like obsessed with seeing the house or did it have like a lot
48:08
of people coming by to see it?
48:10
Or it doesn't seem like it.
48:12
I think it's just sort of a local legend type thing.
48:17
It says you may believe your options are limited or blame someone else for your problems.
48:23
But if you're honest with yourself, you'll see your own ideas and fears are causing the
48:29
problem.
48:31
Be careful of a quick fix.
48:33
You probably need to do some serious work, both inner and outer to solve the issues and move
48:38
to a better place.
48:40
Oh my gosh.
48:42
So they can't just change the number.
48:45
They had to like cleanse that fucking house.
48:47
I'm sure.
48:48
Yeah.
48:49
I don't know if the house is currently occupied.
48:52
I have looked at it on Google Earth.
48:55
I don't.
48:56
That gets updated every so often.
48:58
I didn't remember to check the date.
49:02
But it did look it did look like someone was living there.
49:05
Yeah.
49:06
Don't go by trying to figure out.
49:08
No.
49:09
Please don't Google it and try to go.
49:12
That's rude.
49:13
That is right.
49:14
Don't be a dick.
49:15
Yeah.
49:16
Stick around.
49:17
Don't be a dick.
49:18
In a reading about money, the reverse devil suggests greed may cause you to engage in
49:23
unethical practices or profit at other people's expense.
49:29
Remember the saying love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
49:34
Ooh.
49:37
Sometimes this card means someone else owns you due to indebtedness or your lust for money.
49:43
That's interesting because people own the house.
49:46
Yikes.
49:47
Perhaps you engage in self-destructive practices, working so hard you damage your health or allowing
49:53
your employer to take advantage of you.
49:56
The reverse devil can also mean working for a corrupt organization or initiati activity.
50:05
In a reading about love, your self-esteem may be compromised by a relationship in which
50:11
you are devalued.
50:12
Oh.
50:14
This card speaks of codependence, manipulation, delusion and deception.
50:20
Don't walk away.
50:22
Run.
50:23
Run from the hell house.
50:25
Yeah.
50:26
I feel bad for attacking this house for being evil when it was people who caused the evil
50:32
but still.
50:33
Yeah.
50:34
And definitely agree.
50:35
I think it's, yeah, it's not so much.
50:39
I don't think that the house is really the problem.
50:42
The address is just sort of a coincidental thing.
50:47
How funny is it, too, that it has hops on the card and we are featuring beer today?
50:52
Yeah.
50:53
Because we don't drink a lot of beer to be honest but okay.
50:57
Yeah.
50:58
That's awesome.
50:59
Okay.
51:00
Are you ready?
51:01
Yeah.
51:02
Okay.
51:03
The beast is always the dark face of the handsome prince which is literally Bundy.
51:11
That's Bundy in a nutshell.
51:13
But I hate it.
51:15
I hate it.
51:16
Did we pull a card?
51:17
No, we didn't pull a card for our quotes, Bundy episode where we did his birth chart because
51:22
we were like, that's the witchy stuff.
51:25
Yeah.
51:26
Oh my God.
51:27
Oh, creepy.
51:28
Ooh, little, little.
51:29
Okay.
51:30
That is the perfect card for this.
51:32
The double card.
51:33
Yeah.
51:34
Just situated right between the tower and I forget the numbers and temperance in the major
51:41
arcanus.
51:42
Yeah.
51:43
Just seeing what's in there in a very number 15.
51:47
Y'all.
51:48
Tomorrow's the 15th.
51:51
It is.
51:52
Ooh.
51:53
Okay.
51:54
I'm ready to wash this case like clean out of my system.
51:56
Okay.
51:57
I'm ready.
51:58
All right.
51:59
I'm ready, too.
52:00
I think.
52:01
Okay.
52:02
I'm ready.
52:05
We have something today.
52:07
What?
52:08
We have a Patreon shout out.
52:10
Oh, yeah.
52:11
Yeah.
52:12
We have a new Patreon, Jessica.
52:14
Jessica.
52:15
Hi, Jessica.
52:16
Welcome to the creepy people tier.
52:18
Yeah.
52:19
We hope you love your personalized welcome card with your mini tarot reading inside.
52:24
Oh, yeah.
52:25
There might have also been some spooky confetti in there.
52:28
We don't know.
52:29
I can't remember if I put it in or not.
52:31
Post picture of what you got.
52:36
Let us know.
52:37
Yeah.
52:38
We love to see the cards.
52:39
I know.
52:40
I want to see.
52:41
We're kind of like obsessed with tarot.
52:42
It's our thing.
52:43
If you can't tell.
52:44
Yeah.
52:45
So speaking of tarot reads, if you loved listening to our tarot reads and want to see it
52:51
with your eyeballs, your eyeballs.
52:55
Also you can get a shout out of your very own if you join our Patreon.
52:59
I know.
53:00
So much fun.
53:01
If you can't support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest ways to support our show
53:08
are absolutely free.
53:10
Tell everyone in anyone you come into contact with about us, especially if you encounter someone
53:17
from a hell house.
53:18
Yeah.
53:19
I guess.
53:22
Or if you encounter the devil, let him know.
53:25
Yeah.
53:26
Or I guess you can leave us a five star review on any platform you can.
53:30
I mean, that would really be ideal.
53:33
If you have any true crime, paranormal or witchy stories to submit for our listener appreciation
53:39
episodes, creepy people, chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com
53:48
or you can use our handy Google contact link in the episode description.
53:54
Maybe one of those other two scenarios happens at the very least.
53:59
Just write in about it.
54:01
Yeah.
54:02
Yeah.
54:03
And you can always remain anonymous if you choose to send in a story, especially if it's
54:07
about some guy flashing you at the coffee stand, which I've heard about recently.
54:15
If you don't want to share your name, that that happened to you, but you still want to tell
54:18
the story, let us know.
54:21
And they don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest.
54:24
Yeah.
54:25
Timbuktu or Tacoma?
54:27
Either way.
54:28
There's flashers everywhere.
54:29
There sure are.
54:31
Follow us on all of the socials.
54:33
If you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards, the beautiful altar setups
54:37
and a lot of backstage shenanigans.
54:41
Backstage shenanigans.
54:45
You can find our website and link tree in the description of this episode to check out
54:50
all of the creepy Halloween fun we have to offer.
54:54
Have a creepy ass Halloween.
54:57
Don't go to Hell House.
54:58
Don't go to Hell in general.
55:00
I mean, don't also bad.
55:02
Don't.
55:03
I must have done.
55:04
Don't be at the double, but I don't think the double set bad.
55:06
So I don't know.
55:07
Yeah, really, it's open to interpretation.
55:09
Yeah.
55:10
I don't really believe in hell either.
55:11
So just ignore every guy say.
55:13
Yeah.
55:14
[MUSIC PLAYING]
55:44
I also hope it ends.
55:51
I'm scared.
55:54
I know.
55:55
I'm scared.
55:58
If you're a frequent PNW Haunts and Homicide's listener, you probably already know we're
56:03
birdie ambassadors.
56:05
We wanted to take a quick moment to tell you a little bit more about this awesome product.
56:10
Birdie is the modern, personal safety alarm made for women by women.
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In a situation where you feel threatened or unsafe, you can simply activate birdie's
56:19
loud siren and flashing light to create a diversion.
56:24
Birdie is perfect to carry any time because the device is lightweight and comes in a variety
56:29
of colors.
56:30
So important.
56:31
Use our Ambassador link and coupon code, P&W Hansen Homicides, to receive 10% off your
56:38
purchase.
56:40
Our social media handles the coupon code is all spelled out no special characters.
56:45
You can find the link and promo code in our show notes or P&W Hansen Homicides link
56:50
tree.
56:51
Have a safe, stay fast.
56:52
Bye!
56:53
(catchy music)