Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 34

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 34 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: missing day thirty four. It defies all logic. This, as
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: we learn in the last hours, the FBI has been
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: going door to.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Door asking certain neighbors.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Did they have an Internet disruption the night Nancy Guthrie
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: was abducted? Was a signal jammer used or some other apparatus?
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Also we learn investigators are now talking to trash companies.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Why and this as we learn the DNA, the stranger DNA,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: not a family member, not someone that worked with missus Guthrie,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: was definitively found in the home. What difference does it make?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, as he Grace, this is Crime Stories. I
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. A lot
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: happening in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Straight out to
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave mac dave, What do you
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: mean the FBI going not exactly door to door, but
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to certain neighbors, which I find interesting. Not door to door,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: not every neighbor, certain targeted neighbors.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Why them?
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: What do they know? What can they offer that the
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: next door neighbor cannot offer? Is it advantage point? Is
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: it their work schedule. In other words, were they coming
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: home in the middle of the night, were they getting
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: up early?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: What did they notice? Were they out and about.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Was their cell phone identified moving around in the area
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: in the early morning hours. My point is it could
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: be a myriad of possibilities. Not every neighbor was questioned.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Certain people were isolated in question. I'll get to that
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: in a moment. But Dave mac appearance with their internet signal.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: What the FBI yesterday was specifically looking at the home
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: just west of Nancy Guthrie's home, and they were specifically
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the FBI specifically asking about internet connectivity issues the night
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: that Nancy Guthrie disappeared, very specific about the time and
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: very specific about what could have happened with their internet
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: connectivity Nancy. As we pointed out before, while this is
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: a neighborhood, the homes are not close together, they are
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: separated by a bit. And in this particular case, they,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: as you mentioned, FBI did not go to every house.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: They only went to specific homes, in particular the home
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: to the west of Nancy Guthrie's house, that's the one
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: they spent the most time with and again checking on
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: internet connectivity on February first, that's what they're looking at.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: You're seeing video drone video from our friends at Fox News.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: How irritating.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Look Look, it's like nats straight out to circle back
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: what you just said. But to Bob Krieger joining US,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: former SWAT commander.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: That's not easy to obtain.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Former SWAT commander, Pema County Sheriff's Office, thirty years in Pema.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Did you see the video we just showed. Do you
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: see the media chasing down the FBI? I mean they
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: can't they can't make a.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Move without being watched.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: People are trying to figure out what they're saying, they're
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: trying to read their lips.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Did you ever.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Encounter anything like this where your every move was watched
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: while you tried to work, Bob.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Not specifically like that, but you know, it started a
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: handful of years ago where First Amendment auditors decided they
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: wanted to videotape and look at everything that law enforcement does.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: And it's a skill that you learn, and you learn
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: as long as there are a decent distance away, you
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: just kind of ignore them.
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: Like you said, they're like nats, you know.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Or two, Bob, can I tell you a story I
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: remember I remember the first time that Court TV covered
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: one of my trials live. I was so oblivious, focusing
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: on the answer, the jury, the question, the jury, the judge.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: A tennis match. You zone out everything else. And later
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I found out that the camera caught me trying to
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: put my hair up, which I wore on top of
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: my head at the time, adjusting my dress and all that,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you know, before the jury would come back in. So
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: you know, you have to be in a zone if
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: you're focusing on what's happening. And can I see that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: video again from a friends at Fox's drone video of
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the FBI, and that's how we know they were only
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: going to certain doors, certain neighbors. So can I see
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the other photo now? Please control room of Nancy Guthrie's home,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: and Dave Matt if you could look at this, because see,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: we don't know how this is situated. The overhead shot
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: of Nancy Guthrie's home. Okay, when you're say saying west,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: see from what we're seeing, I don't know which home
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: that would be. Let me see a fares shot that's
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: from twelve News. By the way, a high aerial is
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it to the right of her home or the left
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: of her home, in front or in back? What is
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: west as it is oriented to this photo, Dave mac
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: do we know what would be west? I would assume
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: it's to the left of her home.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's what I assumed, But Nancy, I don't have
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: a there's not a compass here on the picture to
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: know exactly where. That's why I use the identifiers.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, we're going to find out control room.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: That will give you something fun to do. Figure out
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: what is east, west, north and south in this photo.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Just FYI, all you need to know control room is
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: what's north. I'll do the rest for you. Back to
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: the topic the FBI going not quite door to door,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: but certain neighbors isolated straight out to James Bass joining
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: US digital forensic analyst expert witness at Evident Solutions, Inc.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: In to some James, thank you for being with us.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Now you've heard like we did late last night about
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: questioning neighbors. Did they have an Internet interference the night
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Nancy went missing?
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: Thoughts based on some of the new reporting of possible
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: WiFi jammers being used. I think what you're seeing is
• 6:59
  Speaker 6: them trying to either establish that one was used or
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: rule out that fact. Wi Fi jammers work by overwhelming
• 7:07
  Speaker 6: a signal. You can think of it like sitting in
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: a movie theater and someone screaming in your ear. That's
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: pretty much what they do. They're going to flood the
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: zone with signals. So part of this requires a proximity
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: to your device. You can't block out everything.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, James Bass, James Bass, let me see him. Bass.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I got two law degrees, one j D from Ruscy University,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: one LLM and criminal constitutional law from NYU. And I
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: don't know what you just said. Slow it down, brother, Okay,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: because I need to understand. This is technology I don't
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: know about and I want to understand it.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, what now?
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: A Wi Fi jammer is. It's a device you can
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: buy off the internet. They're legal in the United States.
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: You can't possess them, but if you do obtain one,
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: they're relatively effective at stopping Wi Fi signals. They do
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: this by just overwhelming the specific signal band whipped.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: First of all, you've already told me something inconsistent. I
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: believe you, but in my mind is inconsistent. You said
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: it's illegal, but you can get it on the internet,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: just like drugs or illegal, but you can get them anywhere.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So a signal jammer is illegal in the US. I
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: wonder where are they legal? But that's a whole other
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: can of worms. Ooh, there's a picture signal jammer. And
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: then you said, okay, so I've reconciled that, James. Now
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you said you flood the internet. What does that mean?
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: How do you flood the internet?
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: If you think of your wireless router, it's got really
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: two signals. You have two point four gigahertz and your
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: your five gigaherts signal band.
• 8:57
  Speaker 7: That's how it talks back and forth. It sends in data.
• 9:01
  Speaker 6: Now, these jammers don't erase the signal, but what they
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: do is they admit such a loud signal that it's
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: going to overwhelm your device. Just like I said, going
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: to a movie theater and having someone besides you springing
• 9:16
  Speaker 6: in your ear the whole time. You can't hear the movie,
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: but the movie's still going on. It's just going to
• 9:21
  Speaker 6: interfere with the transmission of the data.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Step right there, I need to I've got to take
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: this in tiny SIPs. Okay, Number one, it's illegal. Number two,
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  Speaker 1: you can get one on the Internet three Internet. Everybody's
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: home Internet through their riuters gives a signal and receives
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: a signal. A signal jammer does not stop either the
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: receipt or the transmission of your home router. What it
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: does is it sends out its own signal that is
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: so strong and overpowering.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, then you finish the rest of the sentence.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: That's as far as as far as I got, go ahead.
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  Speaker 6: It's so strong and overpowering that nothing can be sent
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: or received.
• 10:12
  Speaker 7: It can't be heard.
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: You know you're in this case, maybe the Nest camera
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: is broadcasting video to the router. The router is then
• 10:21
  Speaker 6: sending it to the service. Now, when a Wi Fi
• 10:24
  Speaker 6: jammer is set next to that camera, it's gonna scream
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  Speaker 6: so loud that the signal from the device from the
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: camera isn't heard by the router.
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  Speaker 7: It's just going to jump between it and block.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Its Pretend you're talking to Kindergartner's the Wi Fi jammer
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  Speaker 1: when set next to Nancy Guthrie's Nest.
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  Speaker 2: What was the rest of that.
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  Speaker 6: It's it emits a signal that's more powerful than the
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: Nest camera.
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  Speaker 7: It would overwhelmed that bandwidth.
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  Speaker 6: It just screams and yells really loud, and then the
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: router can't hear the camera anymore.
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  Speaker 7: It just interferes and severs.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: That wow override signal so loudly the nest can no
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: longer hear the transmission is supposed to be receiving.
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: And sending. Yes, is that right? Exactly?
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Wow? Okay, you just explained a lot to me. Now
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I want you to look at something Control room. Could
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: you please show the item sticking out of the door
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: the porch. Guys, there you go, keep going, keep going,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: keep going.
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  Speaker 2: Stop?
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So what we had thought, Oh, you're still moving? Could
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you I show that for me? What we had thought
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: was a walky talkie. Could that be the signal jammer
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: or a signal jammer?
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: James Bass, It's possible, It is very possible that that
• 12:07
  Speaker 6: is a Wi Fi signal jamming antenna.
• 12:10
  Speaker 7: You normally would see more than one antenna.
• 12:13
  Speaker 6: There's usually one antenna per band that it's going to
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: try to interfere with, as your illustration here, So it
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: could still be a walkie talkie of some sort. But
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: that antenna is also something that you would see on
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: a WiFi.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Jammer, so it could be a jammer. Do all jammers
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: have the three antenna.
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: Now some have two, some have three, depending on the
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: sophistication of the jammer, the technology that's being used. You
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: can see more. Some don't have one. You you would
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: have to provide a separate antenna. Some have them integrated
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: into the device for portability.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Huh. So some have no antenna.
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: Or you buy the everything has to have an antenna,
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: but if you buy they can be mounted to anything.
• 13:08
  Speaker 7: They're not. The one you would put in your pocket
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: would have an antenna like a walkie talkie. But if
• 13:13
  Speaker 7: you were looking to install one on a.
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: Vehicle, it would not have a built in integrated antenna.
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: You would have to have an external antenna for the
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: signal to broadcast.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, I asked that because you said it could be
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: integrated into the device. But you're saying it can be
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: attached to the device.
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: Correct, correct, Depending on.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Everything separately and then put it together.
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: You can, yes, or you can just purchase one for
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: They usually run about one hundred hundred and fifty dollars,
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: like the one you're displaying here.
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: That's probably one hundred and two hundred dollars.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Unit Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Signal Jammer.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: The reason we're talking about this tonight is we have
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: learned that the FBI, this is not just some kook
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: on the internet. The FBI is asking neighbors, certain neighbors,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: if they had interference with their internet the night Nancy
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: goes missing. Now I've got an answer. Let's see the
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: aerial view of Nancy's home again, please, because I've now learned.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: The front door is facing north. The front door is
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: facing north.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: So as you're looking at the camera.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You are north. South is behind the house. Okay, which
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: means west would be to the left. There you go,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Control room. Wow, Okay, that is very helpful.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Now there's Nancy's home with the red mark on it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: So to the west there you can see. Now you
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: see her home, you see her pool, and.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: It looks there you go.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: The first home to the left would be the one
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: to the west. Okay, Dave Mack, you're telling me that
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: is the home that they were asking about interference with
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the signal?
• 15:25
  Speaker 7: Correct?
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: That is the home they spent the most time with
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: and that's where they were specifically asking connected the night
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Nancy went missing.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Dave mac not to belabor the point, but was the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: FBI asking multiple people in the neighborhood or just the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: home to the west.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: The FBI actually went to different homes in the neighborhood Nancy,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: not just the one. They were seen walking to other
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: homes in the neighborhood as well.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: That I know.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: But did they ask other neighbors about internet interference or
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: just the one.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Neighbor We know just about the one neighbor.
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: We don't know what the conferences, but they could.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Have got it, got it, but they could have So
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: back to you, James Bass, digital forensic analyst, expert witness
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: at Evidence Solutions. In't there in Tucson? If a signal
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: jammer was used, would it have jammed houses around Nancies
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: or just Nancis.
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: That's exactly what they're probably trying to establish.
• 16:36
  Speaker 7: A small unit has a very small area that it
• 16:40
  Speaker 7: can jam.
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: It's got to be close to the device to actually
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: stop the signal.
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: So what they're looking is houses that are going to
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: be close.
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: Trying to establish a timeline or possibly a route in
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: or out of the neighborhood based off of a city interruption.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, that was really smart.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, I was trying to discern something
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: if the neighbors say their Internet was not interrupted, That
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: can mean there was not a blanket like cable disruption.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: That would be more likely, not absolutely, but more likely
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: that a signal jammer was used at Nancy's home. If
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: nobody else had a problem, Nancy was the only one
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: that had a problem, more likely a signal jammer was used.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Although Bob Krieger has another idea former SWAT commander thirty
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: years in LA law enforcement in Pima, was your idea, Well.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: If they were asking about strictly Internet service going out,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: the jammers have a real small radius to work in.
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: If the whole neighborhood went out, would be probably more
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: likely that someone cuts something in.
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: A box or at the house or houses to knock
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: off the service.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: That's going to cut all the Internet activity, not just
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: the individual Wi Fi singles.
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: So there's you know, it just shows, Okay.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: What does that main Bob Kraiger, to have the fiber
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: optic cut, that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Means you're not you can't get on the internet. Where
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: your internet is now broken, You can't talk to anything,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: you can't can't stream anything, no data is coming in,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: no data is going out. What the jammer does is
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: it just affects the Wi Fi singles from your router
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: inside your house, all your devices that are pushing information out.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: So the the Internet is still working, it's just being jammed.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: If the cables are cut or there's a big disruption,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: that's when the whole neighborhood would go out. That's when
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: you'd get Comcast or Exfinity or whoever your provider is saying, hey,
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: guess what. The Internet's down in your neighborhood. You can't
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: do anything. Uh, and today's world, people are going to
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: panic and everything stops. No streaming, no cels or know anything.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: That you do on the Internet is done. And that's an.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Absolute Bob Krieger. If the fiber optic was the issue.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: When you say cut, do you mean physically manually cut
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: severed light with scissors or a knife. Yes, okayn't be
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: evidence of that following I mean they can't cut it
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and repair it. So wouldn't that still be cut the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: following morning?
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, And you would know that whenever you get an
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: outage in your neighborhood. I get a text alert from
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: somebody saying, hey, there's an outage in your neighborhood.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: You know it's coming.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: So that's far less likely you have happened, because the
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: internet service provider would know that already.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Unless Nancy Guthries could have been cut solely like at
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: her home, the fibrobit leading to her home.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know that that's.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Possible or how it is set up, but that said,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it's still an option. I want to go back to
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: something that James Bass said, and and Krieger, if it's Gibbons,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: please jump in if you have an idea. You mentioned
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: James Bass that the routes in and out of the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: neighborhood could be discerned based on this signal Jammer or
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: something to that effect. Again, they did not teach me
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: this in law school. I'm learning right now as we're talking.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Aren't you glad you're not one of my witnesses that
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I would put on the stand because we would be at.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: This all day.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: What did you mean by that all day that maybe
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: you could discern a route in and out?
• 20:37
  Speaker 7: Well, first, back to the fiber optic issue.
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: The reason I don't believe it would be a fiber
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: optic issue is because the camera brought was transmitting at
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: this point. So if fiber optic was cut prior to
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: the incident, you would not have had these images recovered
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: on the back end from this. So the way, secondly,
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: the way this signal jammer would work.
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: Is as Bob said, there's a very.
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: Small radius that it can actually kill a signal two
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: to overwhelm a signal transmission. So if it is in
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: use and it's doing its job, as it's driving past homes,
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: you may see not necessarily when I say an internet loss,
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: you're not going to see a router go offline necessarily,
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: but you may see some of your connected devices.
• 21:35
  Speaker 7: You may notice.
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: You may get an internet or a notification that your
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: doorbell stopped working there was a break in service, or
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: a driveway monitor or something. As it drove past it
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: interrupted a signal and there was a record maide somewhere.
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: So knowing this, it would help you establish a timeline.
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: If there were a sequence of interruptions through the houses
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: going down the road, you know, and out, you could
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: kind of discern possibly a route the timeline and I
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: want to say the type, but the sophistication of what
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: you're dealing.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: With, Okay, that is brilliant. Okay, James, let me see
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: James bass Amount. I'm trying to drink in what you
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: just said. I'm trying to ingest it. You're saying that
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: if the signal jammer had already been turned on as
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: the per was proceeding into the neighborhood, it could very
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: likely jam even.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: If briefly, devices as it passed.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: On the way to Nancy's. That would give me an entry.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I don't need the time, because I already know the
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: time based on a pacemaker, but it would give me
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the route, and it would tell me which way they
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: went and how they entered. And if I know that,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: then maybe I can follow that and get video surveillance
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: from the quick trip or the whatever.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, let me let me.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Just what devices could the signal blocker potentially have knocked off.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: You mentioned a doorbell device. I guess you're talking about
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a ring or something like that, or a nest a
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: driveway monitor. You're still talking about a ring cam or
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: something to that effect. Would it affect cell service, would
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it affect any other device as a baby monitor?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know what. What else could it affect?
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: Wait?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: What control room? You had an idea? What pacemaker?
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Actually I thought of that as I was spouting them off.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: But would a signal jammer affect a bluetooth connected pastemaker anyway,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: that's a good idea pacemaker. What else could it affect
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and air go? How would we get a notice of that?
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: When you say you might have got a record would
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: be made and you may have gotten notice.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, what devices.
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: Really any devices anything that connects to the internet wireless?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Hold on, James Bass, Wait a minute, we're just hearing.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: We've confirmed three other neighbors or asked the same thing
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: about internet connection, not just the neighbor to the west.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Now that we spent ten minutes trying to figure out
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: what was the right house, now we know it was
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: not unique to them. That should, I believe, affect your
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: opinion about what's happening. That more neighbors are being questioned.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: The FBI thinks more people, not just Nancy, not just
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: one neighbor, may have had internet interruption. And it goes
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: along with your theory.
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, what we would be looking for, or what they
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: should be looking for, is if there's some sort of
• 24:48
  Speaker 6: interference as a vehicle or as a person walking. However,
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: this happened that Wi Fi jammer has such a small
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: radius that it could knock off as it goes down
• 25:01
  Speaker 6: the road.
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: We see.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I know what I was asking you, James, I was
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: asking you what other devices would have been interrupted? Just
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: give me a quick Lautery list off the top of
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: your head.
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of devices that we see every day
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: that are advertised on social media that we're bringing into
• 25:20
  Speaker 6: our lives. You see the solar powered remote security cameras,
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: driveway monitors. Anything that can be connected to the Internet
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: remotely that could be close to this jammer as it
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: went by would have been knocked offline sequential.
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: What about a pacemaker as it traveled down?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: What about a pacemaker?
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: Pacemaker is a Bluetooth connection that would require a more
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: sophisticated type of jamming, and it's a much closer Not
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: saying it can't be done. It would require another frequency
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: of jamming, and it would also be much closer to
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: the device.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Brian Gibbons joining me.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Director Operations USPA nation Wide Security. He leads a team
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: of investigators that go around the world extracting, finding and
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: extracting missing people, including Mexico. He is a former marine
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and he is an Iraqi war veteran. He is at
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, Okay, let me try to I'm
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: thinking as I'm talking.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Go with me.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: We've been talking about you and I before we met
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Bob and James about the timing the timeline based.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: On what Bass just said.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: About her bluetooth, I mean her about a pacemaker, which
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: is bluetooth. He said a different type of device and
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: more sophisticated advice or sophisticated device would be needed to
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: blot her pacemaker. The timeline, we see the perp trying
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to dismantle.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: The nest door cam.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: At that time, her pastmaker is still going right, he
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: gets in her pacemaker. Let's see the timeline. Please, you
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: can put that up for me. Her pacemaker spikes two
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a m.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: He is already there if he has a signal jammer
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: at one forty seven. Okay.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: My point is her pacemaker is still working these minutes later.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Thirteen minutes later, then suddenly pacemaker disconnects to twenty eight,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: so the bluetooth was still working. If the signal jammer
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: was used, Fitz Gibbons, it did not affect her pacemaker.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: See what I mean. He's already disconnecting the door cam.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: He's in the area, he's around her house, he's at
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: her front door, he's entering her door, her pacemaker still working.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So it was not a signal jammer that would have
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: affected Bluetooth. Do you see what I mean? Brian?
• 28:13
  Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, And I think you know going through that timeline,
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: it's going it's gonna.
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: Lead to this. Right, we know this.
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: We know that that Nest camera was taken right. We
• 28:24
  Speaker 8: know that that Nest camera was taken away. So we
• 28:27
  Speaker 8: know at least in those moments when the subject comes
• 28:31
  Speaker 8: up to remove the camera, that the signal jammer was
• 28:35
  Speaker 8: not working, right, because law enforcement recovered this from a
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: transmission from that device to the cloud. So we know
• 28:44
  Speaker 8: that the signal jammer wasn't working at that moment, but
• 28:47
  Speaker 8: we can potentially deduce that it was working earlier.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I got to write that down so I can study it.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: That's a really good observation, Fitzgibbons. Okay, So the signal jammer,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: if it exist, did not stop the Nest from recording yet,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: because we got some of that video. Okay, But it
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: could have been turned on after that.
• 29:14
  Speaker 8: It could have been on go ahead, and it could
• 29:17
  Speaker 8: have been on and working and jamming that signal while
• 29:21
  Speaker 8: they entered the house, while they exited the house, and
• 29:24
  Speaker 8: that what you could be seeing here. We know that
• 29:27
  Speaker 8: this subject removed that camera at some point and took
• 29:30
  Speaker 8: it away, So at a minimum, they were aware that
• 29:35
  Speaker 8: video could be recovered from the physical device. They weren't
• 29:38
  Speaker 8: planning on it being recovered from the cloud.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, you Fitzgibbons just hit another important point. Bob Krieger
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: joining US former swat Pema County Sheriffs thirty years at PEMA.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe that is why we don't have any additional cam
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: because when he goes in, he turns on the jammer
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: and no more cam is available. He jammed it. It's
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: possible because if they could have gotten that, if they
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: could have resurrected like Lazarus, Google resurrected or either cast
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: FBI Cellular Analysis Survey team resurrected this video, if the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: jammer was then turned on, maybe that's why we don't
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: have any more video. Maybe he thinks he has somehow
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: dismantled the door cam and then turns it on when
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: he goes inside. I don't know what he did, but
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I do know the FBI thinks he did something. Okay,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: play that out to his logical conclusion, Bob Krieger.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: It's definitely possible with that though, there's a lot of
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: stuff going on from a bad guy's perspective, and for me,
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: the last thing I'm going to worry about is turning
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: on and off a single jam if I'm actually using one,
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: you see it's clearly.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: Not on here.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: Like like Brad point it out, I'm not gonna turn
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: out once I get inside because I'm dealing with way
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: too much things going on inside. You've got people, you've
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: you've got everything else that's happening. So to put my
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: hand in my pocket hit a button, small motor skills,
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: it's probably not likely. It is definitely possible that it
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: was turned on and turned off. But at the same time,
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: if it's on here, you know your crime is has started.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: You've kicked this thing off to start doing things outside
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: of your normal what you're therefore probably not gonna happen.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: And hopefully there is more video evidence. Just because it
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: hasn't been released to the public doesn't mean that there's
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: not video evidence from inside that the FBI that Sheriff's
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Department has that they're they're using for their investigation, and
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: they felt it's just not time to release it yet.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: I don't know why that would be.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Well, we know she went out, we know she went
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: out the front door, but there's no video of her
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: going out in the front door or else.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: It hasn't been released.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: So if they could resurrect the video of him coming in,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: then why can't we resurrect the video of her going out.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: We also know there are cameras on the inside, so
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: maybe that's what they were.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Trying to block. That said, that's a development. Now.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I wondered all night, why is.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: The FBI back at the scene.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: What are they doing? What are they asking the neighbors?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Now we know some of the questions that they were asking.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: But I've got to tell you I was talking about
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: it last night on air. I don't think I ever
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: tried well, I know, I didn't try a single case
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that I did not go back to the scene multiple times,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: multiple times, especially if I was looking for forensic evidence
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: that I thought maybe had been overlooked. I remember going
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: to one playground in a housing project at all hours
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: of the day and night, trying to find ballistics that
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I thought maybe had been overlooked because there was so
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: much spent cartridges, bullets, glassy bags, syringes, rubbers, you name it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: On the children's playground where a triple homicide went down
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: about eleven pm on a Sunday night. I thought, well,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: it was at night. Did they miss something? What can
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I went back and back and back, so them going
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: back to the scene is not unusual. But I'm very
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: curious about the questions they are asking because it gives
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: me insight about the direction in which they are going.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Guys have got so much to get to.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, back to you, Dave Matt Crime Stories investigator reporter,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: What can you tell me about investigators speaking to trash companies?
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: You know, Nancy, this is something that they that investigators
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: have been doing since the very beginning. They were picking
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: up trash in the area around the home of Nancy Guthrie.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: We saw them toting trash and putting it up as evidence.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: They have reached out that investigators have talked to trash
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: companies of where their trash is picked up and where
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: it is taken. We know they are investigating with those
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: trash companies to determine where the trash from that neighborhood
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: is taken. We don't know the result of what they've
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: found out, but reaching out trash from an occurrence, Well, you.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Know what I think about that, Brian Fitzgibbons. I believe
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: that is this is from our friends at Fox Needs.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: By the way, Brian Fitzgibbons, USPA Nationwide Security, Brian, instead
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: of hearing my thoughts, I want to hear your thoughts
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: about what they would be looking for, not just getting
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the trash that they accumulated that day, but now going
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: to the trash companies.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: What is it they're looking for.
• 34:40
  Speaker 8: Yeah, they're going to be trying to find out, you know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 8: what the dates and times of pickups were, and then
• 34:46
  Speaker 8: they're going to find out what transfer centers that that
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: trash was taken to and ultimately it's final location. Because
• 34:54
  Speaker 8: these things are gritted out, like we've seen in so
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: many other cases like Zan Clark in Texas. These trash,
• 35:04
  Speaker 8: you know, dumps are on a schedule, on a grid,
• 35:08
  Speaker 8: and you can identify precisely where trash from a certain
• 35:12
  Speaker 8: date range was deposited.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: But again, could you tell me your best guess, an
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: educated guess, about what they would be looking for.
• 35:24
  Speaker 8: I would have to think they're thinking that the purpse
• 35:27
  Speaker 8: may have dumped clothing items or equipment items, you know, bags, gloves,
• 35:35
  Speaker 8: clothing that in that trash.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: I would I would think that that would be what
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: they're looking for.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm hmm. Okay, what about it, Bob Kraeger, What
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: would they be looking for? Why are they contacting trash companies?
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: I agree with I think that Brian said.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: You know, at this point, anything if you're running out,
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: you throw your gloves in there, it's probably something smallerrobably
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: something to try and get.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: Some DNA off over things like that.
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: But you know, landfills our science and it's they will
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: be able to get in an area where things might be,
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: they'll be able to identify it and look for anything
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: that you might see on this video right here. Because
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: the first thing, you know, folks do when they flee
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: seems like this, is they start changing their appearance. That
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: jacket's going to be off, those gloves are going to
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: be off, the mask is going to be off, and
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: you know, you might drive somewhere and throw it in
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: a trash can a block or two or a mile
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: or two away. You know, it all depends on the
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: tips that they got that have been coming in and
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: that's what they're following up on Mountain.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: You know his gibbons very often. I mean, I'm thrilled
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: about the high tech nature of this investigation, because high
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: tech really the coburger case. That said, think about it.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: People make all sorts of mistake in the heat of
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: the moment. For instance, here's a good one, Jennifer Dulo's
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Connecticut motor five. She's dead, her husband photos Dulo's piece
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: of crap, murdered her. Her body has never been found.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: How do I know he murdered her because he's caught
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: on camera with his mistress throwing out in multiple trash
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: cans around town.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Idiot, bloody bra, bloody T shirt, bloody rags.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I know she's dead, even though we have never found
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the body, because of a copious amount of blood, her
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: blood found in their garage, so much blood a human
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: could not survive if they lost that much blood. But
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: yet there he goes, throwing away the evidence, which of course.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: The police went and found. He's caught on video.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: So what Kreeker just said is right, You're leaving with
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie in your vehicle, and you want to get
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: rid of that face, that ski mask. You want to
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: get rid of that jacket or anything else associating you
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: with this crime. They may very well in that moment
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: put it in a trash can would I do at?
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: No?
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Would somebody else do it?
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: Yes?
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Bob spot on here. And we also know.
• 38:23
  Speaker 8: That missus Guthrie was bleeding as she was exiting that house,
• 38:27
  Speaker 8: so there could have been an item, that jacket could
• 38:31
  Speaker 8: have had blood on it, and they want to get
• 38:32
  Speaker 8: discard that right away as quickly as possible, you know,
• 38:37
  Speaker 8: not only to change the appearance.
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: But to get rid of that evidence as quickly as
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: they can.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Let me see if it's Gibbons again.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I just had another thought, and I owe
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: it all to photos Doolers. You said, as we all
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: know that Nancy was bleeding, I wonder if they didn't
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: take that vehicle for a full on cleaning, I mean
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: a deep cleaning, because that's what Doulos did. He even
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: took the back seat out of the car, which later
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: yielded DNA from his dead wife, Jennifer Dulos.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: But that said, that's another lead.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: It's a weekly, very weak, but it's something having the
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: vehicle deep cleaned.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Saw Coburger do it? Votus Dulos did it?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Many many perps immediately think they can out smart CSI
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and get rid of all the evidence.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Don't you know they had that vehicle cleaned.
• 39:38
  Speaker 8: Spot on and you know with this reward money well
• 39:42
  Speaker 8: over a million dollars. These are you know, items that
• 39:47
  Speaker 8: add to the list to describe this perpetrator who you know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 8: in the last you know, thirty plus days, has probably
• 39:54
  Speaker 8: been following this case quite extensively, has probably been acting,
• 39:59
  Speaker 8: you know, stay at home more often than not, acting
• 40:03
  Speaker 8: nervous and anxious, doing things like getting a car deep cleaned.
• 40:07
  Speaker 8: You know, this is something that could help drive a
• 40:10
  Speaker 8: tip to the.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: FBI, I mean fitz Gibbons, Bass Kreeger. Every time a
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: guy murders his wife, he always turns into a neat
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: nick first thing Peterson wanted to do after he murdered
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Lace he was due to laundry first time ever. Right
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: that said, getting the car deep cleaned, or I've seen perhaps.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Actually burn the car.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: After a murder, or ditch the car, wait for it
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: to get stolen, leave it somewhere with the keys in it,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: get rid of it, so that car actually may have
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: been destroyed by now what do you think about that?
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Kreeger?
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: Very likely, especially if there was blood involved.
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: You know, the deserts of Pema County or vast it's
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: a huge geographical area. Car could go out to the
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: west and three points in that area down towards the border.
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: Doesn't have to make it into Mexico. But they could
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: just park it and leave it there and it might
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: not be seen for years. That's just the nature of
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: the area that we live in. So for something like
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: that to happen, it's honestly a diamond dozen of vehicle fires, stolen,
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: car burned, destroyed, All of those things are possibilities and
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: honestly likelihoods if they were thinking about how they're going.
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: To train and cover up excuse me, what they have done.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Bob Krieger are joining US former SWAT commander Pema County
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Sheriffs in Peyma thirty years. We'll get to Nanos on
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: another day. That just slows me down in this investigation.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Brian fitz Gibbons, USPA Nationwide Security James Bass joining US
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: digital forensics analysts and expert as evidenced tonight at Evidence Solutions, Inc.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Right there in Tucson, and of course is investigative reporter
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: our Dave mac thank you, gentlemen. Again, there is a
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: one point two plus million dollar reward for Pete's sake.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: two two five five three two four repeat eight hundred
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: two two five five three two four eight hundred call FBI,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: or if you wish to remain anonymous five to two
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four sixty three five two
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four six three. Thank you
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: to our amazing guests, but especially to you for being
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: with us tonight and joining us in our search for
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the truth as to the whereabouts of grandmother Nancy Guthrie.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see tomorrow night,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: and until then, good night, friend,