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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger And The Weird And Wild Theories Surrounding The Murders · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Whenever
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: you have a case that draws as much interest as
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the murders in Moscow has drawn, you're going to get
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people speculating on what happened. That's how
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: this works. However, the speculation in this case has been
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  Speaker 1: in overdrive since day one. People getting all kinds of crazy.
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  Speaker 1: talking about people by their government name, accusing people of
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  Speaker 1: all kinds of heinous, wild shit with literally nothing to
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  Speaker 1: back it up. You have people using spirit boxes and
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  Speaker 1: tarot cards. Never mind all of the psychics running around
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  Speaker 1: telling you that they know who killed these girls and
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  Speaker 1: then saying that it's somebody like a professor. So there
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: certainly has been a bunch of yahoos who have come
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  Speaker 1: out of the woodwork here. And anytime you have a
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  Speaker 1: big tent at the circus, that means there's going to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: be more clowns. And there is no doubt that the
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  Speaker 1: clown car has certainly shown up to this investigation. Today,
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  Speaker 1: we have an article from The Independent and the headline,
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  Speaker 1: Online Sleuths Hijacked the Idaho Murders Case. Should We Blame Them?
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  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Rachel Sharpe. They were killed
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  Speaker 1: in a drug deal gone wrong. It was revenge for
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  Speaker 1: bullying another student found dead months earlier. A disgruntled student
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  Speaker 1: blamed them for him being kicked out of a fraternity.
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  Speaker 1: A gang of frat boys decided to carry on a
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  Speaker 1: fight that broke out at a party earlier that night.
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  Speaker 2: The list goes on and on.
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  Speaker 1: These make up only a handful of the countless rumors
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  Speaker 1: and conspiracy theories circulating online in the weeks after four
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  Speaker 1: University of Idaho students were found butchered to death in
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  Speaker 1: the small college town of Moscow. And the whole drug
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  Speaker 1: deal gone wrong stuff, I mean, there were people out
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  Speaker 1: here talking about it was a cartel hit, it was this, that,
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  Speaker 1: the other thing, and it made my eyes roll back
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  Speaker 1: into my head. This is not how the cartel works.
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  Speaker 2: Operates.
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  Speaker 1: The cartel isn't going into Moscow and they're not sending
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  Speaker 1: an assassin to Moscow with a knife to murder four
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  Speaker 1: college students. I found that theory to be straight bananas
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  Speaker 1: that anyone would even believe that for one second was
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  Speaker 1: just insane to me. A disgruntled student blamed them for
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  Speaker 1: him being kicked out of a fraternity. That didn't sound
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  Speaker 1: right either. In fact, I thought It would have to
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  Speaker 1: be somebody who was close to them, meaning an ex lover,
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  Speaker 1: something like that. But when all of that was proved
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  Speaker 1: to be not true, obviously it had to be somebody
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  Speaker 1: outside of their orbit. And unfortunately, that's what it turned
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  Speaker 1: out to be. Somebody who knew them, but it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: look like they knew him. But the emerging details appear
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  Speaker 1: even worse than the imaginations of online sleuths. A highly intelligent,
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  Speaker 1: seemingly high-functioning suspect with an interest in the criminal mind
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  Speaker 1: allegedly entered the home in the dead of night, dressed
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  Speaker 1: in all black and a mask, and stabbed the four
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  Speaker 1: victims multiple times each. The suspect, Brian Koberger, had no
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  Speaker 1: known connections to Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and
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  Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin prior to that fateful night, and no motive
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  Speaker 1: has been revealed. The victims might not have even known
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  Speaker 1: he existed, and that's where I'm at. That's what I believe.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think that any of these kids had any
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  Speaker 1: idea that Creepy Coburger even existed. This dude's out here
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  Speaker 1: watching them, and I can't kick the thought of Francis
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  Speaker 1: Dollarhide watching the houses in the book The Red Dragon.
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  Speaker 1: Dude was out there lurking, Setting up a pattern of
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  Speaker 1: what the people were doing. When they came. When they left.
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  Speaker 1: And then at the perfect time. He'd go into the
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  Speaker 1: house and murder everybody. Now obviously. Little different here. But
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: it's the same kind of scenario. When you think about
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: this dude. Sitting on the house. Casing it. Watching it.
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  Speaker 1: And stalking these kids. And yet. The affidavit suggests he
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  Speaker 1: stalked their home in the lead-up to the attack after
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  Speaker 1: spending years studying criminal justice and how criminals feel while
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  Speaker 1: committing their crimes. Then, that night, he allegedly executed his
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  Speaker 1: own crime in a matter of minutes. Perhaps most chilling,
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  Speaker 1: one of two surviving roommates who were unharmed in the
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  Speaker 1: attack came face-to-face with the masked man thought to be
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  Speaker 1: the killer as he left the home. It's something straight
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  Speaker 1: out of a horror movie, 100%. Imagine being this poor kid, Dylan,
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  Speaker 1: and all the attacks and all the vitriol that's getting
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  Speaker 1: thrown her way. I mean, it's quite the leap for
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  Speaker 1: people out there to start saying, oh, yeah, she was involved.
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  Speaker 1: She helped him out. I mean, that's just crazy. Don't
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  Speaker 1: you think the investigators would know that? Don't you think
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  Speaker 1: they would have built that into their case? So it's
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  Speaker 1: ridiculous to me to see people going after the victim
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  Speaker 1: here and acting like she had something to do with this.
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  Speaker 1: You want to be mad at somebody, be mad at
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  Speaker 1: the suspect. Except, this is no movie. It's real life
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  Speaker 1: for the families and friends of the murdered victims, for
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  Speaker 1: the two roommates who had seemingly a close call with
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  Speaker 1: the violent killer, and for the students and locals of
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  Speaker 1: Moscow now left to try and rebuild their lives.
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  Speaker 2: While America.
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  Speaker 1: has long been fascinated with true crime, the shocking brutality
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  Speaker 1: and seeming randomness of the Moscow murders sent the internet
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  Speaker 1: sleuth community into overdrive. Conspiracy theories and rumors have dominated
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  Speaker 1: the investigation, with thousands of people joining social media groups
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  Speaker 1: to discuss their take on what transpired and why. Now,
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  Speaker 1: you see, I don't really have an issue with that.
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  Speaker 1: People are going to talk about what they want to
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  Speaker 1: talk about in these forums. And if they want to
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  Speaker 1: discuss what their theories are, hey, that's great. But when
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  Speaker 1: you start talking about people by their government name and
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  Speaker 1: start saying they're murderers or they're involved in killings, that's
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  Speaker 1: where it becomes way, way too much. And that's where
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  Speaker 1: people should face penalties. If you're out here defaming somebody
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  Speaker 1: and you're calling them a murderer, you should probably face
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  Speaker 1: some penalties for that. Nope. One particular group on Reddit
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  Speaker 1: has now amassed 123,000 members, ranking it in the top
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  Speaker 1: 1% of all groups on the platform in terms of size. Meanwhile,
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  Speaker 1: a Facebook group with users raising theories about the case
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  Speaker 1: has topped 220,000 members. But are the online sleuths a
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  Speaker 1: help or a hindrance? There's no doubt that the intentions
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  Speaker 1: are well-meaning and that many of the individuals spending countless
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  Speaker 1: hours investigating the case from the comfort of their computers,
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  Speaker 1: had a genuine desire to catch the killer.
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  Speaker 2: And I agree with that.
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  Speaker 1: I would say that the vast majority of people following
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  Speaker 1: this case, well, they just want some resolution and they
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  Speaker 1: want the person responsible to be held responsible. Then there's
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  Speaker 1: some people out there that get way too caught up
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  Speaker 1: in stuff like this. It takes over their lives. It
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  Speaker 1: dominates their lives. And they start, you know, falling into
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  Speaker 1: that rabbit hole. And what the big danger is, at
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  Speaker 1: least in my opinion, with anything like this, is chasing
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  Speaker 1: your own confirmation bias. And when you start doing that,
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  Speaker 1: you're in real jeopardy of losing the plot. Many who
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  Speaker 1: took to Reddit or Facebook to share tips about the
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  Speaker 1: case told how they had already called in the information
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  Speaker 1: to the dedicated police tip line. But there's also no
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  Speaker 1: doubt that throughout the seven-week investigation before Mr. Koberger's arrest,
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  Speaker 1: Moscow police were forced to spend a considerable amount of
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  Speaker 1: time swatting away rumors.
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  Speaker 2: No, they weren't.
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  Speaker 1: They were not forced to do that. They did it
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  Speaker 1: on their own. They could have just said, this is
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  Speaker 1: an ongoing investigation. We have no comment. But when you
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  Speaker 1: start getting into the nitty gritty of it, you set
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  Speaker 1: yourself up for people to dissect every single word you say.
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  Speaker 1: So that doesn't really help the investigation, right? And I
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  Speaker 1: think it was a good idea for them to move
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  Speaker 1: away from those press conferences and just start doing the
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  Speaker 1: press releases. There's a lot less room for misinterpretation when
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  Speaker 1: you have a press release that's, you know, on paper
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  Speaker 1: rather than somebody up there giving a speech where reporters
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  Speaker 1: can trip him up or get him to say something
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  Speaker 1: that otherwise he might not have said. And the rumors
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  Speaker 1: weren't victimless. Several innocent people, many of whom were grieving
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  Speaker 1: for their friends, were attacked by baseless accusations that they
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  Speaker 1: were responsible for the brutal crimes. Hoodie Guy, who was
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: spotted with Gonsalves and Mogan at a food truck hours
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  Speaker 1: before their deaths, and Gonsalves' former boyfriend, both came in
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  Speaker 1: the firing line, while some of the victims' families were
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  Speaker 1: targeted with death threats. The boyfriend of one of the
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  Speaker 1: surviving roommates responded to the social media critics' add-on, slamming
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  Speaker 1: a sickening rumor that that the couple and even his
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  Speaker 1: own father were involved in the murders. I mean, can
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  Speaker 1: you imagine sitting around and coming up with this shit?
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  Speaker 1: If you want to come up with fanfiction, write a book.
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  Speaker 1: You don't need to inject yourself into a situation like
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  Speaker 1: this with real lives and real people suffering and try
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  Speaker 1: to make it about you and come up with all
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  Speaker 1: kinds of weird-ass fanfiction that is not even close to reality.
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  Speaker 1: Moscow police ended up compiling a list of individuals who
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  Speaker 1: had been shrouded in suspicion and who they had ruled
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  Speaker 1: out as potential suspects. a list that the department was
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  Speaker 1: forced to keep adding to day by day. And that's
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  Speaker 1: a good thing. Keep adding to it. No need to
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  Speaker 1: give the interviews. No need for the press conferences. Just
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  Speaker 1: keep releasing these press releases. And yet one person who
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  Speaker 1: was never on the radar of the army of internet
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  Speaker 1: detectives was Brian Koberger. as well as impacting the police investigation,
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  Speaker 1: the online sleuths, to some extent, also impacted the media coverage,
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  Speaker 1: which was undeniably shaped by some of the more plausible
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  Speaker 1: tips that arose first on the likes of Reddit. And
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  Speaker 1: that's pretty sad, honestly. To all of the journalists out
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  Speaker 1: there who are covering stuff like this, you have to
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  Speaker 1: go and develop your own sources.
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  Speaker 2: Don't be lazy.
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  Speaker 1: Don't go on forums and don't spread rumors that are unverified.
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  Speaker 1: It's worth noting that there have been cases in the
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  Speaker 1: past where internet sleuths did get answers. When Gabby Petito's
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  Speaker 1: remains were found after she vanished on a cross-country trip,
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  Speaker 1: her mother praised the online community for their involvement. They
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: are incredible. The sleuths, the internet sleuths, they do a
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  Speaker 1: great job. They really do, she said. And I think
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  Speaker 1: that was a little bit different of a case. It's
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  Speaker 1: like comparing apples and oranges almost. Now, of course, the interest,
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  Speaker 1: that was on par with what's going on here almost.
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  Speaker 1: But all of the other things surrounding this case, a
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  Speaker 1: whole lot different. People pretty much knew right away that bitch-ass, ball-headed, barefooted,
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  Speaker 1: melon-munching Brian Laundrie was the one who hurt Gabby Petito.
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  Speaker 1: You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put it
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  Speaker 1: together that if you go on a trip with your
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  Speaker 1: girlfriend and you come home alone, that yeah, something probably
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  Speaker 1: went down and you're probably responsible. And the sleuths in
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  Speaker 1: that case, they helped find her remains using footage, right?
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  Speaker 1: From the dash cam and different people who were at
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  Speaker 1: the park. So certainly there are points in time where
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: internet sleuthing and people doing investigations on their own certainly
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  Speaker 1: have been successful in helping bring people to justice.
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  Speaker 2: Look at the Golden State Killer.
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  Speaker 1: At the very least, there's no doubt that internet sleuths
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  Speaker 1: can amplify a case, reaching someone who may just hold
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  Speaker 1: that key piece of information investigators need. Mr. Kohlberger is
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: in custody, having denied the allegations against him as he
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  Speaker 1: awaits trial. Meanwhile, the online rumor mill around the Idaho
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  Speaker 1: murders hasn't stopped. Since then, sleuths have honed in on
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  Speaker 1: an account that regularly posted in social media group discussions
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  Speaker 1: about the case before his arrest, with many believing Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger to be the person behind the account. Others claim
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  Speaker 1: to have spotted Mr. Kohlberger in footage attending the victim's vigil.
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  Speaker 1: The man in the footage has since been revealed to
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  Speaker 1: be a different man. And despite police saying Mr. Kohlberger
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  Speaker 1: acted alone, the surviving roommate, who states she saw a
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: man believed to be the killer, a 19-year-old who has
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  Speaker 1: gone through a traumatic experience, is now facing relentless accusations
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  Speaker 1: of being involved. With interest in the case showing no
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  Speaker 1: signs of dying down, it's clear the online sleuths will
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  Speaker 1: continue to build their own.
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  Speaker 2: Investigations, for better or for worse.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I don't even think you can call people who
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  Speaker 1: are going after the surviving roommate an online sleuth, right?
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: How about an online bully? Here's an idea. Leave them alone.
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  Speaker 2: Pretty simple, right?
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: If you want to have anger, you want to have rage,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: you want to have all kinds of vitriol, aim that
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  Speaker 1: at the suspect. Aim that at the fact that this
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  Speaker 1: punk-ass motherfucker crept into their house and killed them while
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: they were sleeping. Don't blame the 19-year-old girl who went
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: through a traumatic experience and we don't even have the
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  Speaker 1: context of what went down. That is straight up ludicrous
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: to me. But you're going to have people do what
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they're going to do. And there's no stopping the Internet.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: We all know that. Once the Internet gets rolling, it's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: like an avalanche. So my advice is ignore the nonsense,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: stick to the meat and the potatoes, and you're going
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to be fine. You're going to be on the right path.
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  Speaker 1: No psychics, no tarot card readers, no spirit boxes. You
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: can miss me with all of that weird-ass snake oil
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: salesman BS. All right, folks, that's going to do it
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: for this one. If you'd like to contact me, you
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: can do that at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: The link that I discussed can be found in the
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: description box.