Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 413- Weekend WIth Bernies

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 413- Weekend WIth Bernies · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:16
  Speaker 1: The Lone Gunman Podcast Triple B and Joe B This
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: week Two Bernies One deadly question. We'll be right back.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: From the documented truth to burn these one question who
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: knew what when follow every thread to the story bands
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: triple b joe b bringing facts to the light the
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: lone one man podcast investigating the night investigating the night.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Miami back channels whispers in the room names cross borders
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: why the doubt still blown was it coincidence contact over
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: plan we read the testimony.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Line by line again Bernardo Bernard history's locked door every
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: contradiction makes us.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Dig more no easy answers no theater no.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Spin just the case the context and the evidence within
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: two men and two files in the frame one assassination
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: and the question of the game turn the page check
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: the date trace the call if the pieces connect we uncover.
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: It all two bernies one.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Question who knew what when follow every thread to the
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: story bends triple b joe b bringing facts to the light.
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: The lone gunman podcast investigating.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: The night investigating the night.
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Bernardo De Torres. Bernard Barker.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: A Tale of Two Bernies.
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: The Lone Gunman Podcast. The Lone Gunman.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Triple B and Joe B turned the file Past the names.
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: That stayed buried for a while Two birdies in the
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: record side by side With questions no official page can
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: hide Bernardo de Torres, Bernard Barker, two trails growing darker
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: after dark. Follow every thread, check every claim. History remembers
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: more than names.
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: The lone gunman.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Question left to ask.
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: What were their connections to the JFK attack? Lone Gunman Podcast.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Triple B and Joe B are on the track. There
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: we go. Song's so nice we had to hear him twice.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: What's up everybody? Welcome in to the Lone Gunman Podcast.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I am the Triple B, Big Bad Bob. He is
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Joe B, just like his thumbnail wearing the Rangers sweater.
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: How'd you know?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we outed it on members only, allegedly.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Allegedly.
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: Yes, but you're lucky your boy has a lot of
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: different Rangers jerseys because I was able to match her thumbnail.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, I like it. I like it when you match.
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: Yes, it is pretty fuego and they just started training camp, so,
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: with a golf outing.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: It just keeps getting gayer and gayer. Anyway, welcome to
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the Limp Comet Podcast. We got a hell of a
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: show for you tonight. We're going to be talking about
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: two Bernies, Bernie Barker and Bernie DeTorres. Bernie Bernie, Weekend
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: at Bernie's, get it? Great movie if you haven't seen it.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: If you haven't seen it, don't know what you're doing.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: because it's a fantastic movie. Old school. Welcome in, everybody.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: We're happy you're here, and we hope you stick around.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: So without further ado, Joe, as they say in France,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: let's get right into the research, shall we? You're muted.
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: We shall.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: We need captions under Joe.
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: You could read my mouth. Even after I put a
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: zen in. I know.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I just like telling you you need it. That's all.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Alright.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: As you were.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: Alright.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: As you were.
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: Alright.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Bernardo de Torres.
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: Very interesting dude.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Very interesting dude. He was of course born in Havana,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Cuba in 1934. He moved to the United States in
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: 1955 to play baseball, Joe. As most hot young Cuban
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: men do. It didn't work out so well for him,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: so he decided to become a PI, or private investigator,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: if you will. But he wasn't just that. He was
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: also very caught up in these anti-Castro Cuban exile groups. And,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: of course... emboldened and embraced with the passion and hope
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: that they could sometime oust Castro from Cuba and take
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: back their country, right? Yes. He was a very important
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: part of Brigade 2506, Joe.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: Yes, Chief of Intelligence.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Chief of Intelligence, COI.
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: So my baseball career ended, and now I'm going to
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: become the Chief of Intelligence.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Well, he knew a lot of dudes, apparently, you know.
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: Right, and that's something that's going to be a common
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: theme when we talk about each of the Bernies we're
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: going to be talking about, as was Bernard Barker.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, and we all know that a lot of these
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: anti-Castro Cuban exile groups were co-opted and funded by the CIA,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: and the brigade is no different than any of them. Allegedly,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: he worked under David Sanchez Morales whilst in... the group,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and a fascinating thing over at the.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get this wrong. I always get this
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: mixed up with the A-R-B. The A-A-R-C.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Yes, Mr. Dale's site.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, our friend of the show, Mr. Alan Dale, or
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Assassination Andre, as we call him here. He recently published,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I believe yesterday or today... a translation of a Cuban
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: exile's Bay of Pigs diary that David Boylan had done.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: He ran it through AI and translated it, and it's
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: very interesting. And a lot of it is going to
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: go right past you. I mean, it's interesting for what
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: it is, but there's no huge revelations in it other
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: than the fact that I forget what day it is,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: but it's dated like a diary, right? And in one
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: of the entries, somebody was giving them a speech to
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: get them all pumped up, you know, and ready to
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: just crash the beach or whatever they were doing that day, right?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: And his name was Mr. Bernie, Joe, they called him.
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Bernardo de Torres. So no slouch. He was in the shit. Um,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: And he actually ended up getting captured and held until 1962.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: He got out of Cuban prison on December 24, 1962.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: John F. Kennedy, I believe, paid a $ 50, 000 ransom for
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: him to get him back.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: I can't remember if he was in Triscornia or one
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: of those places. of the other prisons.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: That I'm not sure of.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I believe it was one of the two.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Yep, after he got out of prison, he came back
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: to Miami and showed up with his brother Carlos, who ironically...
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: In Gaten Fonzie's book, The Last Investigation, Carlos was the
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: code name for Bernardo de Torres in the book. You know,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: how he had the code words for, you know, Vesiana
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: and everybody. He didn't want to use their real names. Right.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: But very interesting. So after he came back from the invasion,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: he was actually in the hospital for a while. He
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: had been shot in the back of his head, right
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: beneath his cerebellum, and the bullet broke into five pieces.
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: He had participated in the Bay of Pigs invasion.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: But he was laid in Cuban prison, busted up after
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: being shot for a year, like a year, maybe a
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: year and a half. He underwent surgery and had four
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: of the five pieces removed. One had to stay because
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: it was too close to an area that, if accidentally harmed,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: could make him paralyzed for the rest of his life. Which,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of course, nobody wants.
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: Nobody wants that.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Nobody wants that. As soon as he was on the mend, he,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: of course, went back to work as a private investigator.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: And according to Jerry Hemming, and you can take this
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: for as much as it's worth, coming from Jerry Hemming,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: he allegedly worked for Charles Siragusa of the CIA who
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: was involved in foreign assassinations. Allegedly. He was also close
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: with Interpen and Hemming and a lot of the members,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: including Lauren Hall, Roy Hargraves, William Seymour, Lawrence Howard, Steve Wilson,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Howard K. Davis, Ed Collins, James Lewis, and Dennis Harbour.
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: That'd be them.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: That is the group of dudes... And I'm going to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: show you a picture here, Yosef.
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Of Bernardo de Torres with said dudes. Because, you know,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: we always like proof around here. Yes. And visuals always help. So,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of course, we have Bernie DeTorez all the way on
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the right here with them hairy-ass arms.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: Right? Very.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Yes. Pencil-thin mustache. Hat to cover up his horrible balding head.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: But still young and, you know, in shape and doing well.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And when I first saw this photo, Joe, it kind
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of startled me a little bit because the guy in
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the hat and the sunglasses kind of looks like David Ferry.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: Yes, and guess who it also looks like?
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: Bernard Barker.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, but we're both wrong. That's Dennis Harbour.
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: Oh, but it does look like him. Allegedly.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And of course, this here on the left end is
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: allegedly William Seymour. Okay?
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: Definitely a ladies' man, if I were to guess.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he did not lack for the poontang, as
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: they say. Do they say that?
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't think so anymore. I think
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: that's more of a 90s term, but it's okay.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they called it in the 60s,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: but maybe some of you old farts in here can
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: enlighten us.
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: Did you ever see the movie Pootie Tang? Of course.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: Do you know my brother, shout out my brother, was
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: an extra in that movie? And it's actually featured on
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: the back cover As like some dude eating carrot. Not
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: going to dox him any more than that.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: Yes. He tried his acting career very briefly at the
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: age of like 12 or 10 or something. Wow.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: Full circle here.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Full circle. All right. Now, there are some things that
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: happen in the median, of course.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: The JFK assassination being one of them, but we're going
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to jump ahead just a teeny weeny bit to the
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Garrison investigation where Bernardo de Torres came to New Orleans
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and volunteered his services to Jim Garrison. Now one of the,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: excuse me, one of the things that Jim Garrison wanted
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to do was track down Eladio DeValle. But what he
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: ended up doing was feeding him a bunch of shit
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: about Manny Garcia Gonzalez. You know, Dean Andrews, thin air guy,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: name he pulled out of thin air. Well, apparently the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Torres was telling Garrison all about Manuel Garcia Gonzalez. And
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: allegedly he was sent to infiltrate the Garrison investigation by
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the folks at JM wave. And he was reporting back
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to the CIA, everything that, uh, old Jim Garrison was finding.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, was up to, yeah.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no bueno.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: It's a problem.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: From our standpoint, at least.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He tried to point Garrison in the direction of
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: wealthy oil men being behind the assassination, rather than angry
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: exiled Cubans. Uh.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Of course, it didn't go very far. But we'll get
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: back to that here in a little bit. Let's back
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: up to about two months before the assassination. We've talked
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: about her here on the show, Sylvie Odeo.
• 16:27
  Speaker 7: Joe?
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, Sylvie Odeo, or Crazy Horny Ass. Yes, Sylvie Odeo. Uh-huh.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: I think I might have, like, preferred her sister, but
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: hard to tell.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Annie or Sarita?
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: Sarita. Oh, actually, Annie was younger, right?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: No, Joe likes them young, folks.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: Oh, here we go. I knew that was going to
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: go over wrong.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And a happy 19th birthday to Erica.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: Oh, my gosh.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I'm kidding, of course.
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: He only met her four years ago. Yes.
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: And she is older than me, allegedly.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. Although she looks 20 years younger.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: Hi, Erica.
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: Hey, Erica.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: She's pretty loosening it down there with her family.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: Oh, Lord. Oh, man.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be something? We kid because we love. And
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: quite frankly, that's all compliments.
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: Yes, it is.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: So back to Sylvia Odeo. Now the reason I bring
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: her up here is because of course she was visited
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: by two Cubans and somebody claiming to be Lee Harvey
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Oswald who she identified as Lee Harvey Oswald after the assassination.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: What she couldn't do or what she refused to do
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: was identify the two Cubans who were with this Oswald character.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: There were two guys accused of it, Lauren Hall and
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Lawrence Howard, by the FBI. For some reason, Hall admitted
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: to it. And Howard said, no way, that wasn't us.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: And then Hall later said, oh yeah, that's right. I
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: got the wrong chick's address in my head. We went
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to go see this other woman. But, of course, there's
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: a Leopoldo and there's an Angelo. Right.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: And somebody who was a big proponent of the Angelo
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Margato or Angelo Kennedy.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: Can I guess?
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Yes. Joe Mellon Jones melons.
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Um, she, she, she interviewed Angelo Margato now and low Kennedy. Uh,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: He claimed that he was the angel and that Leopoldo
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: was Bernardo de Torres. In 2005, she claimed that Bernardo
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: de Torres had testified before the HSCA, but did he?
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: We'll get there, I promise. With immunity granted to him
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: by the CIA, he said he was not questioned about
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: the period of time leading up to the Kennedy assassination.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: As the CIA instructed the committee on what it could
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: and could not ask this witness, but Both the Warren
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Commission and the HSCA buried the anti-Castro theme and never
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: explored what Bobby Kennedy might have known. Again, I love
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Joan Mellon, but she doesn't always get her facts straight
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: when it comes to this stuff. But she believed that...
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Angel and Leopoldo were Angelo Morgato and Bernardo de Torres
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: who they could have been. We don't know. Um, because
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: as we know, um, Bernardo de Toros was in prison
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: in Cuba, was he in there with Sylvia Odeo's father?
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Did he go visit her for some reason? And is
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: that why we never got the truth out of her? Right.
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: We have always speculated, or at least recently speculated, that
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: Sylvia Odeo might have been protecting some people within the
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: Cuban XL community. Pick your group. I mean, they're all
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: kind of the same, but.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. According to an interview with Bernardo de Torres' daughter
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: at some point, and this comes from the aarclibrary.org in
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: a blog by John Simpkin, according to Bernardo de Torres' daughter,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: He was employed by the CIA to investigate the assassination
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: of Kennedy. He worked for several years with the CIA
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: in uncovering all the possible people that were on their list.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: At one time, they put him under the spotlight and
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: he was proved without a doubt that he had nothing
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to do with it. He was actually in Florida, allegedly,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: with my stepmother at the time of the assassination and
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: was working on his other job as military coordinator for
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the Brigade 2506. It's in Miami in Little Havana. I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: think he came to a conclusion in his investigation and
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: thinks he knows who were the people that killed JFK
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and doesn't like or want to deal with what he found.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Because all of a sudden he stopped researching and never
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: spoke about it again. And normally he doesn't stop until
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: he's found the answers. And just to back put a
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: little bit, we'll go back to the Garrison investigation for
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Like I said, he showed up on
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Jim Garrison's doorstep. early in the probe, saying he was
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: a private detective from Miami who wanted to help. He
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: dropped the name of Miami DA Richard Gerstein, who was
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: a friend of Garrison's. Garrison remembered that every lead that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Torres developed ended up in a box canyon. He also
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: learned that Torres was forwarding reports on his investigation to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: the Miami CIA station, JM Wave. So yeah, every lead
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: that Torres supposedly developed essentially went nowhere. It was dead-end city, right?
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: That's what he means by a box canyon.
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: Nothing burger.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yes. A waste of time. Garrison asked the Torres to
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: find Eladio Duvalier so he could be interviewed. Duvalier was
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: a wealthy former Cuban congressman under Batista, and he had
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: headed the Free Cuba Committee in Florida and reportedly had
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: links to Santos Traficante. He was also a close friend
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and associate of David Ferry, another man who Garrison was investigating.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And in the course of checking out all the possible
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: associates of Oswald's in the city, we discovered that the
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: alleged assassin had been seen during the summer with a
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: man named David Ferry. I got my people on the
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: phone right away to investigate a possible Oswald-Ferry relationship. Duvalier
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: had reportedly paid Ferry $ 1, 500 per mission to make air
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: raids in and out of Cuba. Allegedly. Fabian Escalante was interviewed.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: According to him, Duvalier was in charge of narcotics, which
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: we'll get more into here in a little bit, in
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: a town south of Havana where he had business dealings
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: with Santos Traficante. It says, we managed to penetrate his organization.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: We came to know a lot of plans for exile invasions,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: secret overflights to provide arms to internal rebel groups. David
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Ferry was the pilot for some of these flights. One
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of our agents talked on many occasions with Duvalier, who
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: in 62 told him that Kennedy must be killed to
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: solve the Cuban problem. Now, somebody else that is associated
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: with Bernardo de Torres frequently is Herminio Diaz Garcia Lanz,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: who you may have heard of. Alleged to be a
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Dealey Plaza assassin. allegedly, uh, let's see. It's not clear, uh,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: what happened to this dude. Uh, he just basically disappeared,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: allegedly killed on a penetration mission into Cuba in May
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: of 66. He's met the same fate as a lot
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: of these anti Castro Cuban exiles who kept on trying
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: after the Kennedy assassination. Um, Garrison became suspicious of DeTorez
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: on January 7th of 67, and he cautioned his staff
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: under no circumstances to offer any information to him anymore.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Four days later, he wrote at the top of DeTorez's memos,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: his reliability is not established and not credible. Garrison became
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: convinced that DeTorez was working for JM Wave. The CIA
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: in Miami, declassified documents show that DeTorres gave the CIA's
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: final report on Garrison on March 2nd, 67. And according
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to Gaten Fonzie, DeTorres' CIA handler was Paul Bethel.
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: Who is Paul Bethel? Um....
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I was getting confused with Tom Bethel,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: who was part of the Garrison investigation.
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know. I'm not trying to put you
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: on the spot.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: No, no. I don't know either. I'm guessing he was
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: a CIA guy at JM Wave. Well, I'll tell you.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Paul Bethel joined the United States Army and served in
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Germany at the same time as Bill Harvey. By 1959,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: he was head of the U.S. Information Agency in Cuba.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: He was a close friend to David Alley Phillips. And
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: according to Larry Hancock, Paul Bethel had worked on a
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: trial basis for J.M. Wade from October through December of
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: 61 as a writer and analyst on Cuban press and
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: press plans. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. He
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: was also a friend of William F. Buckley, who we
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: have heard of. He was a passionate right winger. And
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: he was an editor of the Latin American Report magazine.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: He published a book called The Losers. And in the book,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Bethel argued that John F. Kennedy, RFK, and Martin Luther
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: King might have been active or tacit communist agents. There's
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: pinky commie bastards. So that's Paul Bethel.
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: In a nutshell.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: No, no, I'm glad you asked because I didn't know either.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: So now let's go. Let's see. Okay, we're not there yet.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I need to go here first. All right, let me
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: share my screen here. And let's take a look at
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: what the documents tell us, Joseph.
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: That's what we like to do here.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: That's right. That's right. All right.
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: Oh, my God. We're not talking about Erica Kirk here, guys.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Come on. We don't even know who you are, Ty,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: so trust me. It's not a conspiracy, bro. His girlfriend
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: is named Erica.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: This is not a secret.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Back to the documents. August 22nd, 1963. This is
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: a DOJ FBI document out of Miami, Florida concerning the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: veterans of the Bay of Pigs, the Bahia de Cochinos.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Brigada 2506, right? And here they called him not the
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: coordinator of intelligence, but they call him the military director
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: of the Association of Veterans of the Bay of Pigs,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Brigade 2506. He was interviewed at the office of the
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: group by the FBI. He said, I'm a permanent resident, blah, blah, blah.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: He stated he had participated in the invasion of Cuba
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: at the Bay of Pigs in April 1961. The Tories
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: stated that this organization had been recruiting people for some
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: future time when it hoped that they can be utilized
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: in the fight to overthrow the Castro regime. So, as
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: late as August 22, 1963, the Torres and the Brigade
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: 2506 and a whole lot of other exiles were still
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: planning on doing another invasion of Cuba to try to
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: get to Castro. He said the recruitment program was initiated
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: about two or three weeks ago for the purpose of
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: determining the number of men available, the qualifications and military experience,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: as well as other pertinent items regarding their background, including
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: their home address and means by which they may be contacted.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: So they're gathering the troops, Joe. In August 1963, for
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: a second invasion of Cuba.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Hoping for different results than the first time. Allegedly.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think they were kind of well over their expectations,
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: in a sense.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: The reason the FBI is talking to him is because
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: he was actively recruiting. He was making no qualms about it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: So you sat down and wanted to talk to him. Like,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: what are you doing, dude? I mean, here's the recruitment application.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: An English translation of it. First, your family name, your
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: second family name, your third family name, your fourth family name,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: and then your given name. I'm a native of blank
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: province blank. Parents, who they, who that. Date of birth
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: and civil status. And your address and telephone number. And
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: that was basically it. Oh, no it's not. Wow. There's more.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: We need references, sir. We need somebody to contact in
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: case you get killed on the beach. When did you
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: get here?
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: Legally?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Allegedly? Status in this country? Legal or illegal? What's your
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: parole or passport number? What do you do for a
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: living and what is your specialty, Joe? Are you a
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: bomb maker?
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: No.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Professional shit talker.
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: Yes. Okay.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: Professional skafooza.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Indicate in the space provided which of the following military
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: activities in which you would like to serve. Joe, would
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: you like to be in the Navy? Aviation, infantry, parachute, tanks, infiltration, commandos, frogmen, guerrilla?
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: Can I answer? Sure.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Please do. I would like to know what you would
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: do if this was proposed to you.
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: Well, I'd say first, aviation. Because I did used to
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: fly Cessnas when I was a deep state Joe in
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: military school.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: So you're saying you would follow in David Ferry's footsteps?
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Very closely.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: He was a good guy.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: And hope that he stops suddenly.
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: Second would be just stop there secondly uh uh parachutist
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: just a tip i i think i'd like to to
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: drop out of.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Some planes okay parachutist.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah i'd say that's it maybe third be gorilla or
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: frogman but i don't think i can make it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Oh no put me in a tank bro Either that
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: or I want to be a guerrilla fighter where I'm
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: just like swinging through the trees and shit, just yanking dudes,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: covering myself in mud so they wouldn't see me and
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: just ramboating the shit out of people.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: Right. And funny thing, you know, I saw Predator the
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: other day. It was on TV. And Arnold Schwarzenegger covered
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: himself in mud. So that's how I envision you.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: Guerrilla-ing.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Yes. Do you have military experience? Indicate when you are
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: disposed to be mobilized. Anytime, sir. I'm ready to go anytime. Joe,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: do you have any physical defects or limitations? Never mind.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: That list is too long. We don't have enough paper
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, let's save that for members only.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Comments. Viva Fidel?
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: Fuck Castro.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: I think that'd be the best answer for that question.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: The application contains the following paragraph at the bottom. I,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Joe Borelli, in good faith and conscious of the responsibility
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: which I have incurred, swear before my God to obey
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: the orders which emanate from the superior officers, namely one
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Bernie DeTorres, To who I am assigned and to guard
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: with absolute discretion all information of whatever nature with is
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: confided in me. Please sign here, Joe.
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: Signature.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: By the way, do you know I am still eligible
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: to sign up for our armed services?
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: God, I hope you get drafted. That would be funny.
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: They raised the age to 43, so I got like
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: three years.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Joey would get drafted, and then he'd be back on
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: the show in two weeks. We made a mistake. We're sorry.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: Undesirable discharge.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: Desirable. I'm sorry. Undesirable, too.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that. That covers it, too.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: The tour has advised the leader of the organization is
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Jaime Varela Canosa, who is the president of the association.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: The tour has stated that he and the other principal
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: officer of the group and that the following are members
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: of the board. A Dr. Alberto Navarro, Edgardo Gutari, Louis Arizareta,
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Jaime Varela Canosa, and a whole lot of other Mexican
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: names I'm not going to pronounce. Probably the FBI. That's
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: the end of the doc.
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: Chat is popping off tonight. That is for sure. We
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: have some funny comments. You know, James had a really
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: funny comment before and I just wanted to highlight it
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: because I didn't want to interrupt you. See if I
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: could find it.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: That's because we got to We got a nut job
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: in the chat. That's why.
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: It happens, I guess.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Apparently the CIA's been trying to kill him for years.
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: I'm going to have to go back and find it. Shoot,
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: I should have bookmarked it.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Boot Camp Borrelli?
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: No, I don't think it was that.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Flatfoot Borrelli? Oh, Flatfoot Borrelli, get in here. All right.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Next document. Let's see. All right. Bernardo de Torres. I
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: have no idea where this emanates from, if it's the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: CIA or FBI. It smells of CIA to me.
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: It looks like some.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: I was about to say, looks like a transcript, but no,
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: it isn't.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: No, it isn't. So we got his full name, Bernardo
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Gonzalez de Torres Alvarez. Age 32. So if he was
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: born in 34, this would have been 66. Is when
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: this document comes from. Hell, it might even be a
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: garrison document. Who knows?
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: It might be. You're right. It could be.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: He says he has claimed... that he and other refugees
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: of the militant Brigade 2506, get this, Joe, assisted the
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Secret Service in protecting the president on his trip to
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Miami at the Orange Bowl on November 18th, 63. He
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: has stated he is working for Garrison. Well, I guess
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: it's not a Garrison document because he wouldn't state that then,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: but he has stated that he is working for Garrison
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: in Miami on the investigations. Torres and his brigade participated
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: in the Bay of Pigs invasion. He is the head
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: of the Association of Veterans of the Bay of Pigs,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: which has, he has said somewhat mysteriously, military plans. So again,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: they're planning another invasion. Even as late as 66, they
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: just won't fucking quit, man. You know? But what do
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: you think about him and the brigade? I know that
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: he did have Cuban exiles around him. when he was
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: at the orange bowl, giving a speech on November 18th,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: you know, a couple of days before the assassination, uh,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: I don't doubt that the Torres was there given his status, uh,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: with the brigade and as an anti Castro Cuban exile,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: one that we paid 50 grand to get back. Right.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: So I don't, I don't doubt that. It's just interesting
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: that they, that they offered to assist the secret service, uh,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: And protected the president.
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it is very interesting. I find it
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: very sus as well. When you think about... Well, yeah.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Because four days later, he's accused of helping to kill
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: the president.
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: And just the overwhelming thoughts and beliefs of all the
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: Cuban exiles that were involved in that the Bay of
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: Pigs thought about Kennedy and whether they were getting truthful
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: information or you know gave him a telephone back channeled
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: filtered through whatever propaganda I can't say, but it seems
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: a little sus to me, especially when you think of,
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: what's the guy, Miltier, right? That was Miami, right?
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: No, he was in Georgia.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: Right, but didn't he?
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Somerset was the informant from Florida. Okay. Who told on Miltier.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: But again, you got to remember, dude, De Torres took
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: a bullet to the back of the head and was
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: in Cuban prison for a while. And then the Kennedys
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: orchestrated his ransom for $ 50, 000 to get him back. So
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: he may have been somewhat sympathetic and glad that the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Kennedys did what they did to get him back. But
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he saw a lot of his friends unfortunately
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: meet their demise in the Bay of Pigs. And he
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: almost did. So that can make anybody bitter.
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: Correct. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, there was a big
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: effort in getting a lot of these either Cuban exiles
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: or soldiers of fortune or other people in prison in Cuba,
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: some of the mafia as well, out of prison. I
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: believe it was Bill Donovan who kind of led those negotiations.
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: I couldn't be wrong. It's been like a year or
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: two since I did that research. But, yeah, you could
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: definitely envision a situation where he could have been bitter
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: for X number of reasons.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Yes. All right, now let's get to some of the
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: fantastic theories of A.J. Weberman, shall we?
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: We shall.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: One of Bernard Odatora's men was the phony Secret Service
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: agent behind the fence on the grassy knoll, folks. Believe it?
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Or not.
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: Well, which Bernie was it?
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to show you. And we're not talking
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: about Barker here, actually. This is somebody different.
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: Not yet. We'll get there. We promise.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Well, this guy right here. The guy on the left
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: is taken from a picture that prominently features Bernardo de Torres.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: This is actually Bernardo de Torres' arm in front of
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: the guy. who is definitely photographed in Dealey Plaza right
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: after the assassination, the guy on the right in the
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: dark suit, who, again, A.J. Webberman claims was the fake
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Secret Service agent on the knoll, allegedly. Now, do you
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: see the resemblance between these two men, Joe?
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: Not really, no.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I kind of see it, I mean, they
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: got some pretty big chins. The hairline looks a little
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: off to me. But again, I don't know what this
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: guy on the left would look like with a much
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: shorter haircut and maybe a couple years added on.
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: Okay, can I stop you? How do we know this
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: is the tourist's arm?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll show you. Okay.
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: Since you must know. Yes, I must. But the guy,
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: go up a little, go up. as I finished my
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: final thoughts here, well, I'm.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Just going to try to find the picture. There you go.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: There's the picture.
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: I think the guy in the right looks much older,
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: not to mention they're wearing completely different outfits.
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: But well, again, Joe, this is years in between pictures. Uh, again,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: if you, if you gave the guy a haircut, made
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: his hair shorter, it might show his receding hairline and more.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: If he has less hair on top and maybe different
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: glasses and a suit on. I don't know. I'm just
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: trying to play devil's advocate here. But that's definitely Bernie
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: towards his arm that we saw because that's definitely him
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: with his horrible hair plugs before they were a thing.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: But I digress. But yeah, we'll scoot back up here
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: real quick.
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: Do you know when the photo on the left was
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: taken it's early 60s it's.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Early 60s definitely but it might have been two year
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: two three years before the one on the right well.
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: He did some good uh looks maxing dieting that's for
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: sure in the meantime i'm envious yeah.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: He's got the same weak looking hands.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I can kind of see it. On the right,
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: it kind of looks like claws.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: On the left, it kind of looks like claws, too.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: It's weird.
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it is weird. I don't know.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: It's sus. I know that.
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: And again, we have one of A.J. Weberman's ear analysis
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: of the two men. They're... they're so goddamn blurry. I can't,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I can't tell one from the other or what good
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: this is.
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: Uh, yeah.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so here we have here on the left
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: is a picture of Seymour Weitzman. Um, who Joe will
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: also talk about later, but, uh, Seymour Weitzman, he was, uh,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Dallas sheriff's deputy. And he was the first, uh, guy
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: to scale the fence on top of the knoll. He
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: told the warrant commission counsel, Joseph ball, that he noticed
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: numerous kinds of footprints. Although Seymour Weitzman had scaled the
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: fence first, the officer behind him, Joe Smith was the
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: first to encounter a quote unquote secret service agent there.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: He says that wasn't alone. There was some deputy sheriff
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and I believe a secret service man. When I got there,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I pulled my pistol from my holster and I thought,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: this is silly. I don't know who I'm looking for.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: And just as I did, he showed me that he
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: was a Secret Service agent. Weitzman had also seen this
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: man and told Ball there were other officers Secret Service
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: as well. Sterling Holland, SM Holland, who had run into
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: the area where he saw the puff of smoke, noticed
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: footprints behind the station wagon and the picket fence. Quote,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: it was muddy, 100 tracks in one location. There was
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: mud on the bumper as if someone had cleaned their
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: foot There were 12 or 15 policemen, plainclothes men, and
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: we looked for empty shells. The Warren Commission questioned every
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Secret Service agent on the scene, and they stated that
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: they all went to Parkland and none of them stayed
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: at the scene in Dealey Plaza or at the Trade Center.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: The HSCA questioned Joe Smith further about this. He says,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: one witness who did not base his Secret Service ID
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: merely upon observing a plainclothes man was Joe Smith, who
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: had been riding as a motorcycle escort in the parade,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: which that's not correct either. He ran up the grassy
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: knoll immediately after the shooting occurred. He testified to the
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Warren Commission at that time that he encountered a man
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: who stated that he was a Secret Service agent and
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: offered supporting credentials, which is important.
• 47:25
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: And just to clarify, you're talking that the Secret Service
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: agents went to Parkland because, of course, Weitzman was on
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: the sixth floor when the rifle was discovered.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Right. There were no Secret Service stationed anywhere in Dallas
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: on the ground. Allegedly. Allegedly. The ones in the motorcade
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: protecting Kennedy and none of them got off the car
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: and stayed in Dealey Plaza. They all rode to Parkland.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Except for Clint Hill. I mean, he was in the
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: president's limo, and they went to Parkland too.
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: He just switched cars.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. None of the Secret Service that were in the motorcade,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: either protecting Kennedy, his wife, or Johnson, none of those
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Secret Service agents got out in Daly Plaza and did anything. Right.
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: And I don't think that's up for debate at.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: All, right? Well, according to Joe Smith and Seymour Weitzman.
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: It is.
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: Well, right. I mean, according to, I guess, the Secret
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: Service is what I'm saying.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, the Secret Service totally denied having any personnel
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: in Daly Plaza or on the streets of Dallas, period. Right?
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: So anybody identifying themselves as a Secret Service person before
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: they actually came back from Parkland or after getting everybody
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: to the hospital.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: It would have to be somebody impersonating a Secret Service
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: agent or identifying themselves as a Secret Service agent. Right.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: So again, here's the bigger picture. And you'll see old
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Shorty McNumnuts here. In the... fray, if you will. Now
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I know secret service people kind of identified themselves with, uh,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: buttons on their lapels, which it appears this guy does
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: have something on his lapel right about there. He also
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: has a dapper hanky in his front pocket. But I
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, he's dressed awfully damn nice. Shiny shoes.
• 49:46
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: Could be a businessman. Could be something more. I wonder,
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: as you talked about the height, if you just scroll
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: up a very little bit, I wonder if, just to
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: follow up on your Quadruple R's episode about AI, I
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: wonder if AI could.
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: Do you know how tall?
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Well, you've got to figure it out. I said he
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: was short, but you've got to understand the rest of
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: the people behind him are up on the curb. He's
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: in the street.
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: That's true. It's going to be hard to tell.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: So he's actually not that short in real life. He's
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: actually taller than most of the other men who are
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: standing in the street.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: He's probably like 5'8 to 5'10. Maybe 5'11. I don't know.
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: In that range?
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say exactly.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: It's hard to say.
• 50:36
  Speaker 6: Sorry.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: This is another photo of Bernardo de Torres. Cuban exile
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: who guarded Kennedy. This is from a news article. 32-year-old
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Cuban exile says he helps the Secret Service agents guard
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Kennedy while in Miami just four days before he was assassinated.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: He is now assisting New Orleans DA Jim Garrison in
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: an investigation into the assassination. This was published in the
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Miami Herald. Mm-hmm. So, maybe that's not allegedly.
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: He looks like a tall dude there. Yeah. Very lean
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: and tall.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: And bean-poly. Yes. Now, here's where we get into what
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: I think is cuckoo land, okay? A.J. Webberman likes to
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: go there sometimes in this book that he wrote called
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: The Oswald Code, where he gets very creative when trying to,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: when trying to build bridges, okay? So he alleges that
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Bernardo de Torres' name is in Oswald's address book, okay?
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: Among many others, yes.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So here is where he says, he says, Ed
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: something Torres, T-O-R-A-Z, director of something, A P.O. box. Something.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: New York, New York. And then account numbers down here below.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: And then address up at the top. Something three. I
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: don't know what that word is. Three house. Gary Street.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know what this word says either. I don't
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: know if it says team. Or if it says.
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: Term.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: Like J.E.A.N. Or torn.
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: Or turn? Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to tell.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: All right, but here's how A.J. Weberman deciphers it. He
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: says that the word says Jonah, or John, Ed Torres,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: or editor or director, and he puts all this stuff together, right?
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: Wait, does that account number match....
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: It does, probably.
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: The one above? Yeah. Yeah. 38210.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: So they said that.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: He says, the CIA transcribed Torres as Jonah. It transcribed
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: editor-director as Ed Torres. Editor or director Torres. Ignoring the
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: I in between the two words. However, a closer examination
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: shows the entry read EDI Torres. get rid of the
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: E and it read D Torres or reverse the ed to,
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: or reverse the ed to D E as in Bernardo
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: de Torres. Uh, a check with postal authority, postal authorities
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: indicated that ed Torres is unknown to PO box, whatever
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: the hell, uh, the present box holder of this number
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: in New York city is the vantage press, which is
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: a book publishing company. Um, And Oswald was thinking about
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: publishing a sanitized book about his experiences in the Soviet Union,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: the Historic Diary, yada, yada, yada. Okay? Now, what all
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: that means, I don't know. But, again, I think Weberman's
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: trying to build a bridge too far here. And, again,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: down here at the bottom, let's see here. All 2506
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Brigade enlistees were routinely processed for provisional operational approval and
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: a request for that on subject. Bernardo de Torres was
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: submitted on March 2, 1961 and canceled a year and
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: two months later on April 4, 1962. It is extremely
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: doubtful subject was aware at the time of his enlistment
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: that he knew of any CIA relationship with the 2506 Brigade, allegedly.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: The investigative phase of the POA indicates that the USG
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: interest would be revealed, but CIA interest in the subject
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: would not be revealed. Subject's file reveals no operational use
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: of subject following the cancellation of his POA, according to
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: William Sturbit's interview May 12, 1978. Again, down here at
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: the bottom, he was returned to America on December 24,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: 1962 after a $ 50, 000 ransom was paid. Worked under David
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Sanchez Morales. Again, these are a lot of names that
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: people associate with the, you know, in the assassination suspect list,
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: if you will. That guy looks like a white guy.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know. He could be Cuban. Who knows? That's
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: part of his 201 file. And again, there is a
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on with him. This is a
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: huge file, which we're not going to totally get into tonight.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: We'll save that for members only. But let's fast forward
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: a little bit in the life of Bernardo de Torres
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: to 1975, Joe. 1975. Yeah. Good year. Not too chabby. So,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: De Torres recently returned to Miami, Florida from Panama and
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Costa Rica. De Torres is picking false press cards written
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: in English for use in Latin America. De Torres claims
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: to have access to over $ 450, 000 to make an investment
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: for quick profit. I.E., A whole lot of cocaine, baby.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: De Torres is planning a trip to Colombia.
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: Shocker.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: Headquarters is requested to place De Torres on Immigration and
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Naturalization Service sound decks and customs to monitor his return, i.e.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: bust his ass, right? De Torres is suspected of arranging
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: for the illegal importation of about $ 400, 000 worth of contraband
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: from Colombia. through Venezuela and into the Florida area, traveled
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: through Manny Rodriguez travel agency on February 15th, 1974. Yeah. Interesting.
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So you're still talking about, I don't know the exact, uh,
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: how much that was worth, but seventies, you're still talking
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: about millions of dollars.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: Yes. But going back a little bit, I, uh, Looked
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: like I jumped a little too far here. This is
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: a HSCA file from Ed Lopez, who famously investigated Oswald,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Mexico City. So they're digging into De Torres. They want
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: his files. Some things were not made available to them
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: by the CIA, shocker. And he says, need them soon.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: And speak to Special Agent Joe Deodorant about Joe Doradant, sorry,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: about incomplete file or lack of follow-up. Set up a
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: meeting with CIA and DIA regarding Torres. So the HFCA
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: is sniffing, right? Right. And they're getting nostrils full of
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: cocaine at this point. But six months status of class...
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: That was good. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Six
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: months later, class two participating cooperating individual. Class two participating
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: cooperating individual can be reached if you'd like to through
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: the Thomas Gilead law firm in Miami. To Torres is
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: a snitch as well because he provided info on Raul O'Leal, Cuban,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: now in Santo Domingo, believed to be trafficking narcotics. Between
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Domingo and Puerto Rico, he's expected to travel to Domingo
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: and the Dominican Republic within the next few days and
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: meet with the defense minister on a legitimate business deal, Joe.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Not narcotics. Allegedly. Defense minister is a partner and friend
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: of O'Leal in a casino. And then he will be
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: traveling to Bogota. That's Columbia. Sorry.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Would you get a big drip there?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a mean one.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: People, if you know, you know. I'm going to leave
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: it at that.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Yes. But it's a lot of them monitoring what he
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: was doing, even up into the 70s, Joe. He's all
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: over the place. He's trafficking cocaine. He's doing business all
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: over South America, in Mexico as well.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: Which was not limited to him. A lot of former exiles,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: soldiers of fortune, ended up doing that later on, right? Right.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: He offers them the BNDD, which is the Bureau of
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs. He says, I can lead your
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: agents to Juan Restoi for a flat fee of.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: $ 10, 000.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: So he offers to roll over on somebody for.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: $ 10, 000.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Like they're going to pay him $ 10, 000 to capture this guy, right?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: He was suspected in March 77 of trafficking in narcotics
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: as well as importing contraband from Colombia and America again.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Okay. Adams was referred to the Miami Regional Office in
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: reference to drug trafficking in the region. Referred via Mitch
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Warble III. Maybe you've heard of him. Through Lucian Conine.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: Maybe you've heard of him. We're just name dropping now, huh?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look. You have the guy who was
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: the silencer guy, right? I mean, this guy is Up
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: to his ball sack in illegal gun trafficking.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: Right, that would be Mitch Warbell.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And Coney, I think he's CIA, right?
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: No, wasn't he the Corsican guy?
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: Lucian? No, that was Lucian.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: No, that's Lucian Sartee.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: Okay, this is different.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: You might want to look that up, Jamie.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: Okay. No, I'm aware. I just, like, I saw Lucian,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: and I was like, how many Lucians are there?
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Interviewed three times by special agent deodorant. Gave info. Bernardo
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: de Torres. He uses and sells cocaine, Joe, because why not, right?
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: You might as well do both. He has sources in
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Key West, and he's also associated with organized crime figure
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: Santos Traficante.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 7: Oh.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: Well, as the great Biggie Smalls said, you don't get
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: high on your own supply. Or you shouldn't.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: No. If you can't afford it, you gotta sell it
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: to use it. You know what I mean? That is true.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: He was used as an informant, although arrested for possession
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: of cannabis, possession of narcotic paraphernalia, maintaining a house used
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: as a drug den... And two counts of written check charges. Jesus.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Adams claims charges are false, trumped up, and will pose
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: no problems to him. So then, yeah. We get into
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: the rest of that document. Can't make this shit up, folks. So,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: Joan Mellon had mentioned That he was given immunity by
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: the CIA in return for his testimony to the HSCA. Now,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: your boy, Doug and Doug and Doug and Doug, and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: I could not find.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: Is that a law firm?
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Doug and Doug and Doug and Doug? Yes. I looked hard,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: and I could not find his HSCA testimony, but I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: did find this. So this is a meeting that they're
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: having at the HSCA, the Task Force for Assassinations. The
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Sturbitz guy is one of these DDO LA Division. He's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: a CIA guy. And I see Patrick Carpentier, Scott Breckenridge,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of these liaisons, right, from the CIA. And
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: just to go down a little bit here, to the
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: relevant part because they want documents on certain people. And
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: the first one on here is Bernardo de Torres. Bill
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Sturbitz will review the file for documents which show the
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: agency relationship with Torres. The HSCA is asked to use
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: de Torres' PRGPA, whatever that is, to confront him. He
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: has denied any relationship with the agency in a prior hearing.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: A written statement of the actual DeTorez relationship may suffice.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: Polygraph analysis? I don't know. That's a guess. I don't know.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a tough one.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Anybody knows what PRG or PA to
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: confront him?
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, let's go sleuths in the comment section there. Make
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: yourselves useful.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: They also ask about Yuri Nisenko and his polygraphs. They
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: want to know about the heart study. which is an
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: internal document and will not be available for committee review. Sorry.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: More shit on the Sanco, Mexico City surveillance. So they
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: asked for it, right? But the question is, do they
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: actually get it? That is the question. So I found
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: this on Mary Farrell from May of 78. And Mr.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Blakey called a meeting to discuss De Torres, who is
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: purported to be a potential assassin, who was purported, I
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: guess purported is the 70s allegedly, right? He was purported
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: to be in Dealey Plaza on 23 November 63, which
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: is the day after the assassination. So that's kind of odd,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: unless it's a typo. Who knows? DeTorez was scheduled to
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: appear in executive session on May 2nd when Mr. Blakey
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: opened a meeting criticizing the FBI for not notifying him, redacted, redacted.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: And what that is under that redaction is that he
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: is in freaking federal prison until May 1st, even though
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: DeTorez had been subpoenaed for the last 30 days. Coulson
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: responded that the FBI, redacted, redacted, redacted, And he requested
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: that the HSCA redacted, redacted, redacted. Mr. Colson, on behalf
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: of the FBI, redacted, redacted, redacted. So what they did
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: is they subpoenaed Torres. The FBI knew this. They didn't
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: tell the HSCA that he's sitting in federal prison. So,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: of course, he didn't show up for his deposition. And
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: they're asking the FBI, like, what the fuck? You know, like,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: why didn't you tell us? So I don't know that
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: he actually ever did testify before the HSCA. They talk
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: about a filing problem, a patronymic filing problem. I don't
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: even know what half this stuff means. So, Joe, I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: don't know if he ever actually did talk to him.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 5: I don't know either. It seems like maybe he didn't. Maybe...
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: Because I.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: Couldn't find the actual... transcript of his testimony. Maybe it's
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: out there. I don't know. But in the limited scope
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: of my investigation earlier today, I did not come across it.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: Well, we'll try to follow up on that on Members Only.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: It would seem that even if he was detained, that
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: may be the reason they didn't want to give the
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: agency access to him. might not have been directly related to, say,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: the Kennedy assassination, might have been related to his skafoozery.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: Well, they could have still brought him over in handcuffs
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: and sat him down and let them interview him.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: They could have. Did they have that type of power
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: to do so?
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the feds, yeah.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: Well, it's... Feds is a loose term, right?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I think if he gets subpoenaed by a congressional... body.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: if it's a government.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 5: You would think so, for sure.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: I would think that the FBI would have the okay
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: to bring him in.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: Right, but if he had something to hide, like, why
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: not Stonewall? And I believe that's... Oh, my God. When
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: did the HSCA end? I believe that's towards the end
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: of the HSCA. Maybe they were just trying to just
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: keep him out of it for whatever reason they had.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. It's, it's awfully suspect the timing
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: of all of it. And again, Joan Mellon said they
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: talked to him, but I don't know if they did.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Cause I couldn't find the, uh, I couldn't not find
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: any documentation, but the story doesn't end there. I mean,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: this guy led a hell of a life. You know,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: he was, he was trying to make these runs back
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: into Cuba and, He just couldn't stay on the straight
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: and narrow. And what turned into, you know, an anti-Castro.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: War.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: He wanted to oust Castro. But instead, he developed this
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: huge network that was running guns and drugs all throughout
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: South America. And I came across an interesting article published
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: in the Miami New Times. about the sad ending to
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: Bernardo de Torres. This is the author Owen Band with
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: De Torres. No, I'm sorry. This is Bernie de Torres
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: with one of his children on Halloween in the 80s.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at that shirt, Joe. He needs a
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: couple gold chains, though, I would say.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: That's straight out of Scarface, kind of.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: Right? Yeah. And you know that is a... Fucking toupee
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: on his head, boy.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Based on the previous picture.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. He was definitely bald by the 80s. Because that...
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: And it's a lot darker than everything else on the sides.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: That is definitely... He probably has false teeth and a toupee.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: But I'm not hating on the guy.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: No, he still looks like a ladies' man.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: But the author of this story, a guy named Owen Band, was...
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: one of his friends and was running with him in
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: the 70s and 80s, doing a whole lot of gun
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: and drug business, if you will. But the story starts
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: off with the sad ending to Bernardo de Torres. So
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: do a little math for me, Joe. If he was
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: born in 1934 and he lived to be 84, what
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: year did he die in?
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: Uh, 2018.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds about right. So regardless of his lifestyle,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: and getting shot in the back of the head, uh,
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of cocaine, uh, Bernardo De Torres lived
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: a very long life. Up to fairly recently. 2018, which is,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: you know, eight years ago.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, what's sad about this is he was sleeping, he
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: was homeless... At 84 years old, Joe, he was homeless,
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: and he slept in a park in Florida. He was
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: crossing the road and got hit by a car. He
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: spent months in a hospital and died in a hospice
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: in the dead of winter. You know, there's winters in
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: Florida are rough, boy, let me tell you.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: Allegedly.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. Every death is a tragedy. Every life has a story.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: But days after his death, this past December 2nd, he
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: was identified as Bernardo de Torres, once the head of
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: intelligence for Brigade 2506, the Cuban Patriots who landed at
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: the Bay of Pigs in 61 with hopes of overthrowing
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Fidel Castro. Bernardo was taken prisoner and was only released
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: after the personal intervention of President John F.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 7: Kennedy.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: If his story ended there, his life would have some
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: historical importance. But there was more. So much more. My
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: friend Bernie was a subject of investigation by both the
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: HSCA and Warren Commission, which probed Kennedy's murder. He worked
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: for DA Jim Garrison as an investigator in a separate
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: probe of Kennedy's killing and funneled information back to his
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: handlers at the CIA. Even today, the FBI and the
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: CIA still have classified files on Bernie. Bernie's resume, if
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: he had one, would include his career as an arms dealer,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: in South America with ties to the head of the
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Mexican police intelligence. He might have left out the number
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: of times he was questioned in homicide cases in Dade County, Florida, though.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: And then there were the rumors. Bernie was an international
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: assassin and high-level federal informant, they said. In reality, nobody
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: knows everything about Bernardo's story. I'm reminded of the line
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: from the Jimmy Stewart movie, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Quote,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: when the legend becomes fact, print the legend. Bernardo de
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Torres was my friend, my mentor, and at times my
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: surrogate father. We met when I was floundering, a year
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: after I had been dropped off a wait list at
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: Harvard Law School and suffered a nervous breakdown. Long ago,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: after four months hanging around my neighbor's pool, I spent
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: $ 125 to become a bartender at a new nightclub called
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: Club Alexandre, located in the Omni Hotel. The crowd included
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Miami's top marijuana importers and their crews who introduced me
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: to cocaine. Soon I was dabbling in the drug business
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: to support my habit. I was even recruited to help
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: unload a freighter full of marijuana anchored out in the
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: Gulf Stream. I quit the Alexandre in 78 and took
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: my act to the infamous Mutiny Nightclub in Coconut Grove, Joe.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: which served as the model for the Babylon Club in
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: the movie Scarface. One night I was at the bar
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: talking loud, and soon I was surrounded by five beautiful waitresses.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: An older man sitting nearby took notice, and I was
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: summoned to his table. Come here, young man. Let me
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: talk to you for a second. Bernie was sitting there
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: with his back against the wall at his permanent table
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: in the club, Johnny black in his hand with three
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: ice cubes in the cup. He wore a black polyester
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: members-only jacket, A black shirt, muted gray slacks, and his
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: quarter van half boots barely containing his Beretta. So he is,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is the 80s. This is like Miami
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: Vice type shit. He's got his members only jacket on,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: his half boots with a Beretta in them. Oh, man.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: And then he says, hey, my name is Bernie. You
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: want to do some coke? You can't make this shit up, folk.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: Well, you may as well be direct.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: Hey, soon it became a nightly affair and then a ritual.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: Bernie and I sat together, kept a room in the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: hotel above the club, womanized, snorted coke, and hung out
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: with whichever cocaine trafficker or celebrity was visiting the club.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: He liked that I was college-educated and Jewish like his son.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: You're a Jew like my son. I befriended several members
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: of Brigade 2506 while working at Club Alexandre. especially Rafael
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Villaverde and the son of former president of CUAC. Bernie
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: rarely opened up, though. Eventually, he did talk about certain
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: events in the past, but left out what he did
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: for a living. I was one of the few people
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: he would allow to drive him home since he was
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: afraid of people knowing where he lived. As a bonus,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: I got to meet his daughters and son. Soon, others
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: at the mutiny became comfortable around me, and Bernie told
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: them I was his nephew. It's my lover, I mean
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: my nephew. During this period of my life, my dad
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: and I weren't communicating in some aspects. Bernie acted as
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: a surrogate father. I was approached by top members of
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: various smuggling groups, including that of Willie Falcone and Sal Magluta.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Definitely Joe Mafia guys, probably.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think Bernie was happy with my decision to
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: take that route with my life, but he never criticized me. Instead,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: he offered advice on everything from how to spot an
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: undercover cop to how to kill somebody with a single
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: blow to the head. Because that's what surrogate fathers do.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: If you're ever backed in a corner, let me tell you,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: put your hand like this and take it right up
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: the side of the temple right there. One blow, dead
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: as a doornail. No problem. Later on, I saw some
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: of what Bernie did. One time I went with him
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: to pick up half a million dollars in cash. Another
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: time he gave me a Glock and asked me to
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: watch his back when we went to meet a couple
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: of his hermanos, that's brothers, at three in the morning
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: in Little Havana. When I had a problem with somebody
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: owing me money, Bernie volunteered to go talk to him,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: in quotes. When the Coconut Grove Marina had a gun show,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Bernie took me there and secured a handgun for me. Later,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: he taught me how to shoot. I was never comfortable
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: with this, though. One time, Bernie convinced me to take
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: part in a Santeria ritual. I don't practice Santeria. I
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: ain't got no crystal ball. Although he was a Santero,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: he wanted the service to be performed by his Babaloo.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: I dressed all in white and wore the color of
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: his Babaloo.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 5: Translation? Is that Cockney or something?
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: No, it's Cuban.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 5: I know, I'm joking.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: I learned that on the I Love Lucy show from
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: Ricky Ricardo. Babaloo! All right, I dressed all in white
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: and wore the colored red and black beads of chango
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: and the green and yellow beads of orula. When Bernie
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: picked me up, his only advice was to hide my
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: goddamn Jewish star around my neck. This ain't your bar mitzvah,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: he said. We're doing sanaria. We're killing chickens and drinking
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: blood and shit. What are you doing? Bernie and I
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: remained tight for more than 25 years. I know without him,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: I would have been killed, ripped off, or sent to prison. Uh,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Bernie was one of the few people who visited me
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: in the hospital after getting in a major car accident
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: and yada, yada, yada. He said, who told me who,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: so who was Bernie? Really? He told me once that
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: he had photographs of Dealey Plaza during the Kennedy assassination,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: tucked away in a safe deposit box, which is interesting.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think this guy's making this shit up.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: I think he's really now. Bernie might be making this
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: shit up, but I think Bernie really told him this shit, right? Right.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: He said he had photographs of Dealey Plaza tucked away
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: in a safe deposit box. He also admitted, Joe, to
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: a close friend of mine that he knew Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: It had been reported that he showed up at Sylvia
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: Odeo's house in Dallas with Oswald. His list of connections
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: included Santo Traficante and Carlos Marcello. Bernie took his secrets
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: to the grave. His fall from grace wasn't poetic. It
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: was for the most part his own fault. I'm sorry
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: for not reaching out to him in his later years.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: His death now haunts me. He was hit by a
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: car last May while walking and then stayed for six
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: months in a hospice before finally dying in December. I
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: can only speculate about how he came to this tragic situation.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: Bernie spent lavishly on his friends. He didn't save much
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: and many of the people closest to him had died
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: or like me had moved on with their lives. I
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: never again resorted to crime and gave up cocaine thanks
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: to Bernie. Adios, mi buen amigo. Vaya con Dios. See
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: you later, my friend. Go with God.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah. What a story, man.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: So, again, you know, as high-ranking, as much shit as
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: this guy was into up through the 70s and 80s,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know when or if he ever got straight,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: but he managed to live until 2018, but he died penniless, friendless, homeless,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: and destitute. And this guy was very important in the
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: anti-Caster Cuban exile community. And it's sad that he ended
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: up this way, but apparently he brought it upon himself
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: due to his lifestyle. And, uh, Although sad, he did
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: manage to live a long life. But who knows what
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: kind of truth, if any, there is to Bernie's story.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: But it's an interesting one.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think in terms of his alleged...
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 5: conspiratorial or nefarious tendencies or whatever in regards to the
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: Garrison investigation. I think that's really interesting. And like I said,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 5: you do lead a long, fascinating life, as will the
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 5: next Bernie we'll be discussing. Yeah, I don't know. I don't.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: I mean, if I'm going to just, like, gun to
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 5: my head, land on was he involved, was he not involved,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 5: then probably say not. But you never know.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting to me is, of course, his stature
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: in the anti-Castro Cuban exile community. Also, the fact that
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: he was hanging around folks like Hall, Howard, Seymour. Right.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: And those guys were... and what he later admitted to
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: having some photographs from Delia Plaza that we may have
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: never seen before, and also the fact that he had
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: met Lee Harvey Oswald. Which, if he did accompany Oswald
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: to Silvio Dio's house, then he would have met him. Right. So,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: who knows? It's one of them things.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 5: It's one of them things, man.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: One of them things. All right, Joe, let's talk about
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: the other Bernie.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 5: Yes, and I know Joan Mellons, Joan Mellons, of course,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 5: I'm making a joke.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: Joan Mellons.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 5: Was very fixated on him for whatever reason, probably because
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 5: of the Garrison entanglement, right?
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: Well, that and the fact that she managed to... I'd
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: have to go back and grab my copy of the
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: book because De Torres would have still been alive, and
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know if she talked to him.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 5: I think she did, but don't quote me on that.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: I know she talked to Murgado, but I don't know
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: about De Torres. I might have to go back and look.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: We'll save that for members only.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 5: Yes, we will follow up. As we like to do.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: And I believe next week's members only is the last
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Wednesday of the month as well, Joe.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 5: Yes, so all spooks will be included, including my mother.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: So I'll have to be up. Yeah, you know this.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, I thought she was like the highest tier level.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: She's a covert operator.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 5: No, she didn't know.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: What's the highest level? Um, fuck. It spooks covert operators and.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 5: And covert spy or something? What is it? Oh, man.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 5: We are embarrassing ourselves here.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: Tell your mom, pony up. Come on. Get on the
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: highest level here.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 5: Okay, hold on. I think I have it here. Super Spy.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 5: There we go.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: We're on top of our shit, guys. You gotta laugh
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 5: at it sometimes.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 5: So let's get into the other Bernie, and if you
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: want to put that up, Rob, I will start. And
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 5: the reason... Very.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 7: Dapper dresser.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 5: Interesting you made that point, because when you show the
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 5: other picture you had of the alleged De Torres in
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 5: Dealey Plaza, I think.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: No, that wasn't De Torres in Dealey Plaza. It was
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: somebody else he was in a picture with. Allegedly another
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: member of Brigade 2506. It was unidentified.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 5: Okay. This guy looks a lot more like that guy.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: Minus the comb mover.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 5: Well, you never know. Yeah, I mean, again, this is,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 5: on the left, I believe, is him outside of Watergate.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: Of course, Bernard Barker. We're going to get into his
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 5: background here right now. Who was Bernard Barker? And, you know,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 5: one thing, Rob, that I've always, I always kind of forget.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: Is that he was Cuban. And that's just because of
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 5: the name.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: Well, that and the fact that he looks white.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: But a lot of Cubans do look white. They don't
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: look like ethnic Latinos.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 5: Well, when we get into his background here, you'll see,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 5: because he was kind of a Cuban-American. He was born
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 5: in Havana, California. And by the way, Leon, which was
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 5: his middle name, was based on Leon Trotsky. Allegedly.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: Somebody Oswald admired.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 5: Yes, he was born in Havana. Trotskyite Marxist. Yes. He
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 5: was born to a Russian-American father of Jewish descent and
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: a Cuban mother. Allegedly. Which makes for a very spicy combo. So, guys,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 5: we have figured it out. It was the Russians with
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 5: the Cubans. He was a dual citizen, Cuban-American. At age 16,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 5: he joined some Cuban revolutionary group, opposed to then-president Mercado
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 5: Morales or something. I guess that was before Batista?
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 5: And it was during this period he acquired the nickname Macho,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 5: which there was later a book written about him called Macho.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: Something.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 5: So Barker's father got concerned and sent him to live
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 5: in the United States. where at age 18 in 1935
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: he became an American citizen but then returned allegedly to
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 5: study at the University of Havana. But after the Japanese
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 5: attack on Pearl Harbor of course getting us into World
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: War II, Barker joined the United States Army Air Forces
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 5: as a lieutenant and a pilot as part of a
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 5: Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress bombardier. On his 13th or 12th,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 5: there are varying accounts, he was shot down in Germany
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 5: in February 1944, and the Germans held him as a
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 5: prisoner of war at Stalag Luft in Barth, wherever that is,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 5: which was then liberated by the Russians in 1945. So
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 5: this guy has.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: Go ahead. I was just going to ask, are you
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: reading from a document that you didn't switch the page to?
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 5: No, I'm reading from my other computer. This is intentional, sir.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: Okay. I'm just making sure.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Um, so again, he joins up, he gets captured.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 5: He's a prisoner of war for over a year.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: And then the Japs had him.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 5: No, the Germans had him.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, the Germans had him.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So I looked up that, uh, What's it called again?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: The Stalag Luft. And that was like a prisoner of
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 5: war camp for downed pilots, whether it be Britain or
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 5: British or American or.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: A.K.A. a very bad place to be.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 5: So after the war, he then went back to Cuba
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 5: at some point. And again, this is, you know, you're.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 5: we're talking about 45, 46 to, you know, close to
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 5: late 50s, or 50s, he returned and joined the secret
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 5: police under Batista. Was later an FBI informant, and as
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 5: we'll see shortly, we'll get there, I promise, he was later,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: did a lot of work for the Central Intelligence Agency,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: and joined the Bay of Pigs invasion. Now, I'm not
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 5: sure that's exactly correct. I think he was probably a
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 5: little long in the tooth at that point for that.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 5: I haven't, like, deep dove on it to see if
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: he was actually involved. I believe he recruited for it.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: He seems to be in fairly decent shape there after Watergate,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: and you've got to figure 10 years prior to that,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: he probably was still in fighting shape.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 5: He definitely could have been. I just don't know.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: He has very good skin, very smooth skin. Not a
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: lot of wrinkles. No.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 5: So, let's go here to my.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: He has a very kissable forehead, as we call it.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 5: Yes, a big forehead.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Fabulous.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 5: So, let's hear it from the horse's mouth themselves, which
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 5: would be the CIA.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 5: And this would be right after Watergate kind of document
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 5: on the biography on Bernard Barker. He was born in Havana, Cuba,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 5: as we talked about.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: U.S.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 5: Father and a Cuban mother, even though the U.S. father
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 5: was of Russian descent, allegedly. He was recorded at the U.S. Embassy.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 5: His birth was recorded at the U.S. Embassy, and he
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 5: was recognized as having acquired U.S. citizenship by birth. Through
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 5: the citizenship of his father, he traveled not on a U.S. passport,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 5: but on an identity card proclaiming his U.S. citizenship. He
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 5: entered the U.S. Army Air Corps. We already went there
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 5: in 1950. Along with several U.S. citizens who were war veterans,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 5: he entered the Cuban police force, where his bilingual abilities
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 5: soon brought him advancement. Barker's relationship with the CIA began
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 5: in mid-1959 in Havana, Cuba, as a result of his
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 5: position with the Cuban police force, in which capacity he
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 5: was detailed to liaison duty with U.S. agencies in Havana.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 5: He was used by the CIA in Havana as a
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 5: source of political information and recruited a number of valuable
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 5: agents for the CIA office in Havana. For personal security reasons,
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 5: he was an expert Expendishly. Expendishly. I'm not fucking butchering that.
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 5: You know me. Evacuated from Cuba in late 59 and
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 5: arrived in the Miami area... Expendishly. In 1960. Expendishly. There
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 5: you go. Thank you, sir. I had a speech impediment
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 5: as a kid, guys. Don't worry.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: Now I do.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 5: Now I.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 5: Poses a podcaster as a result of his excellent record
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 5: with CIA in Havana and favorable assessment by a senior
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 5: CIA official in Miami in January, 1960 Barker was hired
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 5: under a contractual relationship with the CIA Miami office, which
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 5: would be J and wave effective April, 1960 at the
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 5: rate of $ 300 a month. And we're going to get to, uh,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 5: some of that. Um, He did such a good job
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 5: that he eventually got a raise to $ 400 a month
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 5: and then to $ 500 a month. By November 1960, he
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 5: frequently conducted investigations, Barker, which resulted in valuable operational information
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 5: for the CIA, having a flair for intensive debriefing of
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 5: operational prospects. Barker debriefed Cuban refugees of interest to the CIA.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 5: To assist Barker in his activities, he was given... a
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 5: five-week full-time tradecraft training course in 1964. Barker's contract of
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 5: $ 500 a month was renewed in 66 and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 5: He went on. Because of Barker's loyal and productive service
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 5: during his six years contractual association with the CIA... With
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 5: the agency, his contract was further amended to include payment
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: of a one-time termination bonus of $ 1, 500. That's 15 grand.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: There you go. Can't sniff at that. The agency also
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 5: assisted Barker in getting a job in private industry. Barker
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 5: left the Miami area in August 1966 to undergo a
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 5: four-week training program in New York.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 5: I'm just kind of skipping through here because a lot
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 5: of this is... He allegedly signed a termination secrecy oath
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 5: with the agency in August of 66, which would be
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 5: almost three years after the assassination, thus prohibiting him from
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 5: divulging any matters relating to his association with the agency.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 5: While under CIA contract, Barker was a loyal and dedicated
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 5: employee who responded without hesitation... to various requirements placed upon him.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 5: He was totally committed to the agency's objectives and provided
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 5: the CIA with valuable information during his contract tenure. So,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 5: you know, there's no doubt about it. Dude was employed
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 5: by the CIA.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 5: For many years.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: I think that's safe to say.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 5: Yes. I mean, they admitted it, right? So, when they
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 5: admit it, You're, you know, you have, they have to
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 5: admit it, right?
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: They denied a lot of it.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: Like Frank Sturgis, they denied it, but admitting it twice.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 5: And there are some interesting connections between Barker and Sturgis
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 5: as well, of course, when you deal with the Watergate,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 5: but even going back into the early 60s. But his alias,
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 5: because he did his intelligence training in New York, New York.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 5: In addition, I guess Desmond Fitzgerald stated in a memo, 64,
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 5: AM Clatter 1 was his pseudonym, cryptonym, has been polygraphed successfully.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 5: Other investigations made by JM Wave resulted in no derogatory
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 5: information being discovered. This was contradicted by Chris Hopkins in
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 5: a memo to Bernard Baker, in June of 73, which
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 5: was based on a conversation with former Miami CIA officer,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 5: none other than David Morales. According to Hopkins, Dave said,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 5: we can be sure A-1 tells the authorities everything he knows.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 5: He tells all to everyone because he's such a loud mouth. Dave,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 5: David Morales, recommended in 62 that he be terminated. According
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 5: to Dave, the Amat So here you kind of see some, like,
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 5: inner Cuban exile drama, if you will. And by the way,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 5: I saw, and this is the document here, but I
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 5: saw Toops said... Earlier in the comment section. Can we
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 5: get a Jagahoova? From the Joby. So there you go, Toops.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 5: Just because you're a member, you get those type of benefits. Um,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 5: but this is the redacted conversation, which I don't know
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 5: which committee it was. It might've even been before church.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 5: It might've been Pike or something. I don't know. Um,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 5: Conversations with David Morales re-AM Collider 1, and we already
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 5: established that is Bernard Barker, and we're going to get
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 5: a little more into that and the cryptonyms in a second.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 5: He's now retired, according to Jack Stewart, recruited AM1, which
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: is Barker, in Havana in 1959 as a support agent.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 5: A1 provided Havana station information on the police and political matters.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 5: He was also used to transport our agents to the
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 5: harbors for exfiltration. The agency exfiltrated A1 to Tampa in
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 5: 1959 and put him in touch with the FRD in Miami.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 5: He had a job with the FRD recruiting candidates for
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 5: the invasion. He worked with Cardona on propaganda. Howard Hunt
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 5: became A1' s Barker's case officer on CA Matters at the
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 5: JM Wave Station.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: It's covert action, folks.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Dave said we could be sure A1 tells
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 5: the authorities everything he knows, Barker. He says it all
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 5: to everyone. So this is what the previous recap talked about.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 5: So this is kind of an example of the different prefixes,
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 5: I guess is the right term, that were used for
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 5: different informants or contract agents or cryptonyms or pseudonyms, whatever
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 5: you want to say. And you can see AM was Cuba, right? Yes. And,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 5: of course, we know about DI. There's been some debate
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 5: over that within... Me and Rob. But again, his name
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 5: is A.M. Clatter One. And I'm going back to A.M.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 5: Clatter One because I'm not 100% sure of this, but
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 5: I was on Mary Farrell, and you see A.M. Clatter One, right?
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 5: Bernard Barker, Cuban exile, contract agent, worked with E. Howard Hunt,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 5: Frank Sturgis, and Rolando Martinez. All four men were part
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 5: of the team. of the Watergate Burglars. His pseudonym was
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 5: Spencer O. Turtling, also known as the Mule. But the
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 5: rest of these A.M. Clatters is what I think, and
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 5: how I interpret this, Rob, as people he recruited. So, A.M.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 5: Clatter 1 would be Barker, and of course we don't
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 5: know who 2 or 3 is, according to Mary Farrell,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 5: but The rest of the people were probably recruited by Barker,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 5: and they just used this as kind of like a
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 5: filing system. You know, AM Clatter 4, Pedro Martinez, or Fernandez,
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 5: Jesus Alberto Gacira, a biography of Bernard Baker, AM Clatter 1,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 5: noted Barker's recruitment of AM Clatter 5 and identified him
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 5: as Alberto de Jesus Alberto Castilla. AM Clatter 6. Ana
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 5: Rosa Guerra Santana. Was an associate of Barker. CIA's handwritten
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 5: Bernard Barker's chronology stated that AM Clatter 6 was Guerra.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 5: There would also be a reference to AM Pan 6.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 5: She's a honeypot.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 5: Unknown Identity. AM Clatter 8. Told AM Clatter 4. in
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 5: June 1960 that he had learned that police in Havana
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 5: were probably investigating the activities of William Pauley of Miami.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 5: Of course, the bio-Pauley raid, right? AM Collider 9, Eugenio
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 5: Jesus Veliz Fernandez, CIA's handwritten Bernard Barker chronology stated that
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 5: AM Collider 9 was, I cut this off, Veliz's 201
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 5: CA 201 file. So, would you agree that this probably
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 5: means that all the other future AM clatters were people
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 5: recruited by Bernard Barker? Most likely. Of course, you don't know.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 5: I'm not trying to put.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: You on the spot. I'd say it's a safe bet, yeah.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And there are, of course,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 5: 779 matching cryptonyms on the Mary Farrell database relating to AM,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 5: which of course is the prefix for Cuba operations. So
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 5: this is just a little, another recap of his career,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 5: also from the CIA, the CIA document. So they are
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 5: again admitting this. He was granted a provisional operational approval
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 5: in April 59 for use as a source of information.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 5: Then he was exfiltrated from Havana in January 1960. Then
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 5: he went to Nassau, I'm guessing that's the Bahamas, about
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 5: March 1960. Then, I'm just going to kind of run
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 5: through this here. Howard Hunt said Barker advised him of
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 5: the presence in Miami of a man representing a high-ranking
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 5: cashier officer who had proposed to rescue a group of
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 5: prisoners and deliver them to an embassy a thousand dollars ahead.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 5: What does that sound like, Rob?
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: Well....
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 5: Another Bernie.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: Hunt said that Barker....
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: Everything has a price, Joe.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. That's true. Hunter said Barber contacted him
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 5: as a last resort since Barker no longer had a
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 5: case officer but was being handled administratively by an agency
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 5: staff employee. Hunt remarked that in view of Barker's past
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 5: services and continued potential, it was his personal view that
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 5: Bernard Barker should be used, and he, E. Howard Hunt,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 5: was going to suggest that the agency's psychological... warfare people
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 5: pick him up.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: I also highly suggest we use him in the Watergate burglary. Right.
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: I trust him.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 5: And then I'm just going to skip through because I
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 5: just clipped this, but there's much more in between this.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 5: Or at least a page or two more. Let's go
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 5: to 63. April Barker's contract was amended for a year
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 5: I think that means extended. Yeah. Howard Hunt requested reimbursement
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 5: on August 63, 31st. August 31st. Of $ 500 from his
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 5: advance account, which had never been settled. This was result.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 5: He claimed... of a receipt for $ 500 signed by Barker,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 5: which the agency finance officer had previously neglected to turn
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 5: in to be credited against Hunt's account. So here's Hunt like,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 5: be like, yo, I paid this guy 500 bucks. Give
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 5: me my money back type of thing.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 8: And it's documented, uh, which is kind of funny. And
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 8: of course, CIA is acknowledging that documentation. Um, Then, let's see.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 8: I already went through this.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 5: We go to March 64. Oh, we already went through this.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 5: I'm sorry. There's an interesting gap here, Rob. From August 63,
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 5: which of course is when Oswalt was in Nolens. Nolens, Mr. Gadsden.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 5: To March of 64, which is about....
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: That's almost as big as the 14-minute gap.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 5: It's significant. Now, there was another gap or two of similar.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: Time. Girth?
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, similar girth. And like 62 or something, but of
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 5: course this is the time frame we are kind of
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 5: trying to hone in on, right? So then.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's conspicuously absent.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so in 64 in April he's sent.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 5: He's then extended again And then he goes to New York,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 5: he's polygraphed, and he received his covert training in operational
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 5: tradecraft in New York. Which is weird to me, if
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 5: you've been a contract agent for five years already.
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. A little sus.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 5: So you're trying to, like, kind of.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 5: Make it seem that, like, he was just trained then?
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 5: Because obviously... he was doing, quote, great work for them
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 5: for years and years and years. His record was, you know,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 5: was great. So I'm not sure. I mean, I'm just
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 5: kind of bringing up the sus thing. So how does Mr...
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 5: come into the JFK assassination accusations? Well, it comes from Mr.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 5: Seymour Weitzman, the DPD officer. And this is his warrant
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 5: commission testimony with Mr.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: Ball.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 7: Mr.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 5: Ball, were there other people there besides you? Yes, sir.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 5: Other officers, Secret Service as well. And somebody started. There
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 5: was something red in the street. And I went back
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 5: over the wall So he went to the Knoll first, essentially.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 5: Brought me a piece of what he thought to be
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 5: a firecracker, and it turned out to be, I believe,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't quote this, of course, but I turned it
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 5: over to one of the Secret Service men and told
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 5: them to go to the lab because it looked like
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 5: human bone. I later found out this was supposedly a
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 5: portion of the President's skull.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: It landed up on the Knoll? Or no, it was
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: on the left-hand side of the street.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was 8 or 10... Yeah, he's going
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 5: to go on to say it was 8 to 12
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 5: inches from the curb. What part of the street did
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: he pick this up? As the president's car was going off,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 5: it would be on the left-hand side of the street,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 5: right back into the left. The left-hand side facing, that
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 5: would be the south side of the street. And then
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 5: they go off the record, Mr.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 6: Ball.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 5: Shocker. What did you do after that? After that, we
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 5: entered the building, and then they go into the rightful discovery.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 5: interesting the theory is so that's kind of the basis
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 5: of it the theory is this researcher Michael Canfield and
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 5: I haven't been able in my day or two of
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 5: prep for this show have been able to find his
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 5: exact transcript of his interview with Weitzman but in April
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 5: 75 he was interviewed by He interviewed Seymour Weitzman, who
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 5: was in a home for aged veterans. I'm sorry. Seymour
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 5: Weitzman had a nervous breakdown in June 1972, shortly after Watergate.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 5: He requested that his doctor, Charles Liberda, mafia, I'm just kidding,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 5: be present during the interview. Seymour Weitzman told Mr. Michael
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 5: Canfield that he had encountered a Secret Service agent in
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 5: the parking lot who produced credentials and told him everything
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 5: was under control. He described the man as being of
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 5: medium height, dark hair, and wearing a light windbreaker. So
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 5: that would rule out our picture of Barker or the
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 5: other person we might have assumed or theorized might have
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 5: been Barker, right? The do with the receding hairline in
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 5: the suit.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah i've got a picture somewhere that i've shown on
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: here many times of the alleged secret service agent that
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: was behind the knoll and he kind of has a
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: light colored raincoat over his over his forearm his left
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: forearm he's wearing a suit and a hat and that
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: might be what he's talking about a light windbreaker like
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: a light rain raincoat.
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, was he coming down the steps of the.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: No, he was still up behind the fence.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 5: Okay. Oh, I know which one you're talking about.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: It's actually part of a... I think it was part
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: of the John Martin film. John Martin Jr.? Yeah. The
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: guy who worked at the post office? Yeah, yeah. It's
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: part of his film. He's in that film. And I
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: pulled some stills off of it.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 5: So that is interesting that he... Does that. And I'm
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 5: just going to say, listen. Weitzman did have a nervous
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 5: breakdown in 1972. He was placed in an old veteran's
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 5: home or whatever you want to call it. I find
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 5: it troubling. I find it a problem that... Three years later,
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 5: now he's coming out with this because I reviewed his
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 5: day of TPD affidavit. I guess it's undated, but there's
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 5: one on the 23rd, the Saturday, and it has nothing
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 5: to do with Secret Service agents or piece of brain
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 5: or bone, right? So that's also a little bit of
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 5: a problem. So I'm not really sure where to land
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 5: on this. We'll maybe debate a little bit. I'll continue.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 5: Canfield showed him photographs of Watergate burglars Sturgis and Barker
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 5: and asked him if either of these men resembled the
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 5: Secret Service agent he had encountered on November 22nd. He
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 5: pointed to Bernard Barker. He told Michael Canfield, I can't
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 5: remember for sure, but it looked like him. Couldn't swear
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 5: it was him, though, although anyway, so many witnesses are dead.
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 5: Two Cubans once forced their way into my house and
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 5: waited for me when I got home. I had to
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 5: chase them out with my service revolver. I feared for
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 5: my life. A recent JFK Records collection computer search revealed
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 5: that one page of a Warren Commission document that dealt
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 5: with Seymour Weisman and the tramps was referred to another
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 5: agency for review. When the HSCA attempted to question Weisman,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 5: His doctor said, since Mr. Weissman was treated for emotional
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 5: illness for many years, information sought from him should be
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 5: extracted from his testimony and depositions made at that time.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 5: 63 to 64, right? You're talking DPD, War Commission. So,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 5: I'm not exactly sure what to make of this, man.
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 5: I think I have one more slide here, and then
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 5: we'll get into it. The ARB was interested in this
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 5: as well. I believe this was on behalf of Mr.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 5: Doug Horn. And he's essentially asking the DPD here for
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 5: all their records in regards to Weissman's claims about that day.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 5: So you can take it down now, Rob. I have
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 5: my doubts. I have my doubts if whether to believe
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 5: Weitzman at that point 12 years later. Yeah.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, who knows, dude? You know, when you get
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: to be that old and dementia kicks in and, you know,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: maybe Alzheimer's. I don't know how much we can trust
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: what he's saying, but, you know, if he's having a
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: moment of clarity, who knows, man? You know, maybe. Maybe.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 5: There always is those.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: You can't always discount it, you know.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 5: That's true. But that is where essentially the basis comes
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 5: from that Barker was possibly one of the people that
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 5: were faking to be a Secret Service agent comes from Mr.
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 5: Michael Canfield and possibly a misinterpreted couple sentences from his
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 5: Warren Commission testimony.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can definitely see that as a possibility for sure.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 5: Right, how people can just run with it type of thing.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and the fact that, you know, he was later
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: arrested with notorious CIA agent E. Howard Hunt at Watergate
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: and some of the other anti-Castro Cuban exiles, Martinez, or
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: is it Martinez or Rodriguez? I think it's Martinez.
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 5: Eugenio Martinez, right?
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Eugenio Martinez. Right. Another Bay of Pigs veteran. It's
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: not out of the realm of possibility that you know,
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: people have tried to tie these, these guys into the
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: JFK assassination for years. So it's not a stretch to
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: try to throw Barker in there as well.
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 5: Right. I mean, everyone and their mother was allegedly in
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 5: Dealey Plaza. If you, if you, if you go down
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 5: enough rabbit holes, right.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 5: But, uh, I mean, let's face it, dude was definitely
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 5: employed by the CIA, was exfiltrated, and 59, 60, dealt
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 5: with recruiting people for the Bay of Pigs invasion, was
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 5: definitely a big anti-Castro dude, having worked under Batista. So
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 5: you can see where some of those allegations might reach
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 5: some eyebrows, right?
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure. Of course, I was not there. But
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 5: I think he has a very interesting story. And especially
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 5: when you consider, allegedly, E. Howard Hunt recruited him to
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 5: be part of the Plumbers and kind of brought him
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 5: back out of retirement because he was supposed to have retired,
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 5: and I believe it was 66. So this would have
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 5: been like, what, five years later or something. but of
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 5: course you recruit the people you used to work with.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: Right yeah yeah I mean the people you trust right.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 5: And he did spend time in jail and then he
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 5: later became he later worked for the city of Miami
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 5: in some I have it somewhere in some area so
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 5: And then he died in 2009 at the age of,
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 5: I believe it was 92. So you think about it,
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 5: going from Cuba to the United States, allegedly back to Cuba,
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 5: then being a pilot, then getting shot down, then being
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 5: a prisoner of war, then going back to Cuba, working
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 5: for the secret police under Batista. then getting recruited by
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 5: the CIA, then, of course, you know, the allegations and
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 5: then Watergate. Dude was like this little mini Forrest Gump
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 5: type of dude.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: Like Scott said, that Bay of Pigs thing. Yes. Yes. So, yeah.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, dude's definitely sus. The question is how sus
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: is he? Again, We can't tie him directly to the
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: events in Dealey Plaza. Right. But he certainly has the
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: bona fides for it.
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: And motivation and all of that.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 5: 100%. So, very interesting. 100%. And, you know, one Bernie
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 5: that we're not going to get into is Bernard Fensterwall, right?
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 5: But you and Doug, I mean, I think this was
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 5: on Quick Hits. This must have been like two plus
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 5: years ago. I think Doug polled a bunch of research
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 5: friends of his and asked like.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: Don't you confuse Doug with Paul Blow.
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 5: Wait, that went over my head.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: Paul Blow is the only person who would be polling
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: any of his friends about anything.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 5: Oh, because he's still in those polls. No, but he said, like,
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 5: controlled opposition or informant or worse or whatever. And then
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 5: I chose the most conspiratorial thing. And I remember you
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 5: saying this. You go, of course he did. In regards
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 5: to my polling responses. But, uh, That's definitely a good
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 5: episode if you want to find that and go back.
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 5: But yeah, there's a lot of Bernies and they're very
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 5: fascinating people. I'm not sure how much we could tie
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 5: to them, right? There's not going to be a document saying, like,
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 5: Bernard Barker was, we gave him fake Secret Service credentials
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 5: to stand up on the knoll, right? There's not going
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 5: to be that document.
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I've been busily behind the scenes trying to,
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: to get this filmed so we can see if we
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: can see the Secret Service agent on the knoll in
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: this film. So let me share my screen right quick.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 5: Alright, Jamie.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: Let's do no audio here. We only need to see things.
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: And here we go. It's only a minute and a
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: half long. So we should be able to see it
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 2: fairly quickly. Again, this is from John Martin Jr. who
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: worked at the Postal Annex with Harry Holmes. Let's see
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: what we got here, Joe. All right. So here they
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: come around the corner on the Houston Street. And this
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: is their turning down Elm. And bad things happen. And
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: there they go.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 5: Now....
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, now we're up in the railroad yard. There's Roger
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: Craig already up there. Front and center, side profile, right there. Okay.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 5: Alright.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 2: I believe it is not... Oh! I think I saw
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: Danny Arce.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 5: Did you?
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right there on the right in the black coat. Yeah.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: Hold on. I'm going to back it up a little
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: bit more. Look at that.
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 5: That might be.
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: Look at him. A lot of milling around back there.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: Amos Ewins getting carted off.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 5: Hold on, boy.
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: Billy Lovelady.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 7: Charles Brim. George Bush Jr. walking across the street today.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: Come on, take us back up. I don't think this
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: is the, uh, the full movie. I could have swore
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: it was in this film.
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 5: I know which one you're talking about. Um, maybe we'll, uh,
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 5: figure that out for, for members only.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll do some, I'll do some, uh, some checking,
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 2: see what I can find. But, uh, I could have
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: swore it was in that movie. Maybe that was some
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: kind of cropped version or something. Who knows? But, yeah.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: There you have it. Weekend with Bernie's.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, we kicked off the weekend with some Bernie's. Just
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: As soon as we get off here, Joe's going to
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: go burn one, as a matter of fact.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 6: Allegedly.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: Allegedly. Allegedly. Him and Ruby, take a nice long walk together.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 5: Bernie is with Bernie.
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: All right, grab that beautiful little white dog of yours,
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 2: and let's get the hell out of here. Folks, we
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: appreciate you hanging out with us. We hope you enjoyed
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: the show, and we'll see you real soon. Expect members
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: only to get early access to Random Research Ramblings, early
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: access to book reviews. And then, of course, we'll be
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 2: back next Wednesday for all channel members for part two
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: of Weekend with Bernie's. And there she is. Hey, Ruby. Hey, Ruby.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 5: Hi, Rob.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: All right, Dino, get your fat ass in here and
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: let us get out of here.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 5: Come to Bourbon Street and I'll show you what I
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 5: think of the case.
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks for hanging out with us. Hit that button on
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: your way out the door. We'd appreciate it. And come
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: back and hype this thing when it's a video. We'd
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: appreciate that as well.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 5: And we'll see you.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: Next time. We try to shed a little light on
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: these lesser known characters. People always like to throw them
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 5: But it doesn't always go very far.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: Lots of things are very sus.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 5: Someone's got to do the work.
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, Tim, you're welcome. We love doing it. Thanks, Scott.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: Party on, Wayne. That's when you say party. on, Garth.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: Just say it.
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 5: Party on, Garth.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Alright, folks. Peace.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 5: Have a good weekend, everyone.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you.