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Transcript

It's Friday I'm Over the Moon · Friday I'm in Bed

• 0:00
  Hello, welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
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  Podcast for midlife women living their best life while in bed by
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  10. This week on a Friday, I'm in
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  bed. We're starting with the Artemis
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  mission and the first woman travelling around the moon.
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  We're talking about why this is such a big moment, why it's
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  taken this long and the widest shift to with a more diverse
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  crew, including the first black astronaut on a living a mission.
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  It feels like progress, but also a reminder of how how overdue
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  this all is. Then we're getting into Wireless
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  Festival, Kanye West being banned from the UK and the
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  ongoing question can you separate the art from the artist
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  and more importantly, who gets forgiven and who doesn't?
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  Because controversial men to carry on just fine, while women
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  can get torn apart for someone. Something as simple as setting a
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  few boundaries. So grab a cuppa and let's get
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  into it. Hi Gemma, How are you?
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  We didn't. Decide that.
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  Did we? No, I started, and so did you.
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  So who's going to go? Do you have a nice Easter
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  weekend? But yeah, it's funny.
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  So I can't seem to remember what we did.
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  I was poorly. Unfortunately.
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  I think my husband caught a bit of a viral bug thing from the
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  aeroplane. That's normally what I do on an
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  aeroplane, but he got it and then I got it.
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  But that isn't all that happened at the weekend.
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  But I did some sewing. I made a jacket out of a blanket
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  and that's what I did. How about you?
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  I made a trifle. I saw that Stories.
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  Yeah, it was massive. We only finished eating it
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  yesterday. Love A trifle.
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  It was like chocolate and Raspberry.
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  And I put like Chambord in the bottom with like chocolate
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  brownies in the bottom and then Jelly and chocolate custard and
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  then mascarpone and whipped cream.
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  And then I topped it with I topped it with everything I
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  could find in my cupboards. There were there were mini eggs,
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  there were raspberries. And then I was like, oh, I've
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  got old spray and chocolate syrup.
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  So I put edible gold spray. Not just like just not just like
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  random gold, like actually edible gold glitter, though.
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  So yeah, it was like it was an insane trifle, but it was very
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  nice. And yeah, and it's.
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  Lasted us five days or whatever it is we have.
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  We have chocolate trifle for Christmas dinner pudding every
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  year. And like it has to happen.
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  I don't make it. My stepmom makes it, but it's
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  like non negotiable. But The funny thing is is I'm
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  pretty much the only one that eats it.
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  So my children just eat whatever and I just keep eating this
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  trifle for a week and it's like the best thing ever.
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  And we should make one trifle just so you can eat the whole
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  thing. Yeah, yeah, we have things like
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  that, especially at Christmas. I don't know why we're talking
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  about Christmas now, it's Easter, but yeah, Christmas is
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  that's when you like have to have a Christmas pudding and you
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  go and then you have your Christmas dinner and you go, I
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  don't want Christmas pudding. So they tend to have quite a
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  long expiry though. So sometimes you can have the
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  same Christmas pudding three years in a row if you get them
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  at the right time. You're not selling them to me,
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  so we've got. Not one things cooked like.
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  You know. What if it's still in its
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  packet? Yeah, it's still horrible.
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  Still horrible. We've got a couple of things to
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  talk about this week, can't we? They're very topical and it's
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  everything that's kind of been talked about this week in the
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  news, apart from the bad stuff that we're not going to talk
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  about. The end of civilization as we
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  know it, We're not doing that. No, we're not going to talk
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  about that. We're going to talk about the
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  two other things that are on the news right now.
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  So I think we should get into it, don't you?
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  Absolutely. So.
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  First thing I want to talk about today is super topical because I
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  want to talk about going to the moon, and I'm aware that
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  sentence has not been said seriously by real humans for
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  over 50 years longer than I've been alive.
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  But here we are. There's 4 astronauts literally
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  on their way home right now. I think they're supposed to
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  splash down. Like I think for us, it'll be
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  like very early Saturday morning in UK time and they've flown all
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  the way around the room, around the room, around the moon.
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  And OK, one of the things that I'm definitely going to talk
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  about is one of them is the same age as me.
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  I don't know how that makes me feel.
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  Well, I'm like, what have you achieved in life, Gem?
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  Well, someone else your age is flying around the front.
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  Why do I keep saying room? Flying around the moon so
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  they'll have been up there for like 10 days.
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  They left on the 1st of April. So I'm, I'm waiting and for
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  another 20 years for that to be the conspiracy theory that it
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  never happened. And so they've done a lunar
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  flyby and the last cruise deep space mission was in 1972.
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  So what year were you born? 1972, yeah.
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  So yeah, so there hasn't been a deep space mission for as long
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  as you've been alive. I was born in 79.
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  So there definitely hasn't one been one for as long as I'm
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  alive. And they've they are now, or
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  were there from the earth than any human in history.
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  Which is. Just amazing and it's.
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  I think one of the reasons I want to talk about it is it's
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  been quite a feel good story. There's a lot of firsts for it.
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  There's a lot of, there's a lot of kind of mid life issues for
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  us because all of the astronauts are in their 40s and 50s.
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  So you know, they didn't pick 25 year olds to go up there.
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  They picked a good one. And obviously one of them is a
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  woman. There is a black astronaut
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  there, Victor Glover. Christina Christina Koch is the
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  mission specialist who's 47, same age as me.
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  She was born in January 1979. So she's like a few months older
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  than me. She'd a bit older at school.
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  Yeah. So I, I wanted to.
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  Have you been following the story?
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  Have you been watching? Because people have been
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  literally glued to like the feeds and I've seen so many of
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  the beautiful pictures that are coming back and the the quotes
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  and stuff. Have you been following it?
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  No, sorry I got more interested. So we, we record this on
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  Wednesday. So Tuesday when the the
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  photographs happened or didn't get them this morning.
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  Anyway, when I saw the photographs, I was, you know,
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  obviously like wow, but I didn't even know it was happening.
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  So I am not one that is glued to television with any space
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  exploration. However, when did I see it on
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  the news? I don't know, 2 days ago and I
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  was like oh and and then obviously the photos.
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  But I'm not as excited as you. I have to admit though I do get
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  that. It's absolutely amazing.
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  Where is your love of I was going to say or space?
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  Have you always been into space? Literally.
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  No. And I don't think it's space as
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  such that's kind of grabbing me this time.
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  I've always, I've always, I've got a bit of a thing for the
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  moon. I've got a little tattoo here
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  and I've got a little bit thing of it for it's like, mostly for
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  it's like cyclical nature and it's kind of, you know, so I've
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  got a bit of a mystical thing for the moon probably rather
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  than a space thing for anything else.
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  But I think one of the things that's grabbed me about this,
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  this time is probably more that I mean, that it's a positive
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  story. When you see the astronauts that
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  are out there talking, they, they also, they are articulate,
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  not like me, she says, not being able to find her words.
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  They're articulate, they're intelligent, they're thoughtful
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  and I think that that's wonderful.
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  Christina being Christie, we're on first name terms now.
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  Just not sure if I'm pronouncing her surname right.
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  So I thought I'd just stick with Christina.
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  Being the same age as me has been kind of quite the thing as
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  well. She is the first woman to
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  journey around the moon. She previously held the record
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  for the longest Space Flight, was 328 consecutive days in
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  space by a woman, and did the first all female spacewalk in
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  October 2000. 19. So she's kind of kind of epic.
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  I'm enjoying watching her be at literally the peak of her career
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  as well because you know, there's, there's so much like
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  women are past it by the time they're in their 40s and she's
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  literally at the peak of her career.
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  She's doing like the ultimate bit of her job right now, even
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  if I'm staying at home. Going what?
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  Have I done? I'm going to take responsibility
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  for all of her achievements too, because that's fine.
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  But then that's quite an interesting point because so she
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  did an interview with Hello magazine and saying that she
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  still experiences imposter syndrome.
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  And like, frankly, if you're like an astronaut flying around
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  the moon and you still have imposter syndrome, then there's
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  no hope for the rest of us really.
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  And she also talks about stereotype threat, which was
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  quite interesting, which was feeling the weight of
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  representing your whole group. So basically she's feeling the
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  weight of, of me taking responsibility for all of her
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  achievements. So because she's the first woman
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  to achieve all these things, she's essentially now become
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  like representative of all women wanting to achieve things.
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  And you, you, you can't kind of separate that out from what you,
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  you do. So I thought that was, that's
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  quite an interesting take from a personal level for me.
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  Is that somebody who is doing so fantastically still has impostor
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  syndrome about it and that weight of representing your
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  entire group, which is something that most men won't feel because
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  they're just one of lots of men that have done these things and
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  do. You suffer from imposter
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  syndrome. I sometimes wonder what imposter
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  syndrome is, so I'm going to question that first and I'll I
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  did listen to a podcast years ago and this isn't going to be a
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  useless comment because I can't remember what it was about that
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  questioned whether it exists, but I can't remember.
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  I said useless comment because I can't and what they said.
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  If I had have realized we're going to quite hostile syndrome,
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  I would have looked. I'm sorry.
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  What is your definition? Like?
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  What do you think? Because when I heard this
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  podcast, it was kind of like, oh, we all have impostor
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  syndrome because it's, I can't remember, like it's not real or
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  something. I can't.
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  Remember what it was. So you tell me what you what do
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  you think she's feeling? What do you think?
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  So I do, I tend to think that it's an it feels a bit like an
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  imbalance between the way the rest of the world is potentially
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  seeing you and the way you see yourself.
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  Because we, if you're looking at someone else, much like what we
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  see in social media, we just see these tiny little snapshots of
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  their lives, right? So we see we see a successful
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  person who's achieved things in their career.
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  Whereas when you're looking at yourself, you see a whole big
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  picture that other people don't see.
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  So you are saying all the failures that you were there on
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  your way to being a success, you're seeing the fact that you
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  still go home and eat dinner. So even when you're comparing
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  yourself to other people in your field, you see bits about your
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  life that they other people don't see of you.
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  So if you're looking at someone else in your field, you don't
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  necessarily see them as a completely rounded human being
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  because you don't get to see them in the bath.
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  Well, maybe you do, I don't know.
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  But do you see what I mean? So I think it's like that, that
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  disconnect between being a whole rounded human being and being
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  the stereotype example of this thing.
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  So you go, well, like I can't, I can't be in charge because I.
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  Remember being five? Yeah, but then everybody
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  remembers being five. Yeah, I think maybe we do all
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  have imposter syndrome and therefore are we.
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  To me, I think when someone says imposter syndrome, I presume
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  their meaning. Like when I walk in the room, I
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  feel that I'm not worthy enough to be here.
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  That's just sad. But I suppose it's why do you
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  feel that? And is that as you said, because
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  you just know all your? Warts.
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  All your warts and all. That nobody else sees.
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  And if everybody, you know, everybody's feeling.
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  So people say, you know, I don't suffer an imposter syndrome, but
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  maybe you do because you because you never feel.
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  It's not a topic I really thought about, as you can tell.
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  Yeah, well, no, I mean, to be honest, I wasn't planning on
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  like, discussing her impostor syndrome for ages, she said.
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  What works for her to help get over it is just assume that
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  everyone's already noticed that you're good.
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  That's great advice. Isn't it So assume that
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  everybody knows you're good and therefore you don't have to
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  prove how good you are. So I like that.
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  I think I'm more presume because I don't really care any that
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  sounds awful. If I walk into a room and you
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  think I'm not worthy, like I don't really care.
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  I think that's where I'm at with my journey of that.
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  It's almost like, I mean, there must be sometimes where I feel
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  like, oh, but generally I'm just like, oh, whatever.
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  And it's quite liberating because like I, you know, I
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  can't think of the last time I walked somewhere and thought I'm
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  not I shouldn't be here, you know, like because I'm not good
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  enough. And that's not because I think
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  I'm great. It's almost like I've had wish
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  carefully think I'm good enough or not well.
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  Maybe imposter syndrome is more like when you, because I think
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  we're all different in different circumstances, aren't we?
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  So you know, you can walk into some rooms and you'll be like,
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  oh, it's fine, I belong here. But then other places you might
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  walk in and feel a bit, well, bit out of your debts and a bit
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  like you don't belong. So maybe imposter syndrome is,
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  is when you're in a room with where you should feel like you
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  belong. So for example, if you are an
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  astronaut and you're with all the other astronauts, you should
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  be feeling like, I'm just here with all my other little
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  astronauts. We're all, we're all astronauts
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  together. Maybe you're feeling like.
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  Oh my God, I'm in a room with astronauts.
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  Yeah. How how have I ended up in here?
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  This is ridiculous. So maybe maybe that's the maybe
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  that's the definition, but maybe that's what she's feeling.
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  Maybe she sat up there in space right now, going Oh.
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  My God, I'm in space, but that's just trigger the thought around
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  this podcast. I can't remember it was
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  actually. Is it a bad thing?
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  Because if you walk into a room with astronauts and you're an
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  astronaut and you're like, Oh my God, it kind of humbles you as
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  well. And it makes you thankful and
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  appreciative and like, wow, you know, I've done this.
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  You know, it's not necessarily a bad thing.
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  Maybe it's a kind of like maybe somebody who's cocky.
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  Yeah, maybe not everybody has imposter syndrome, but the
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  people who don't have imposter syndrome are idiots.
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  Oh yeah. Exactly.
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  Almost like, you know, I'm here because I should be here, which
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  is nothing wrong with thinking that and being confident in
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  that, but it's when it crosses over into just being like Trump.
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  Don't think he has. Imposter syndrome?
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  No, I don't think he has imposter syndrome.
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  Anyway, there were some other lovely things that come out if
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  you've not been watching the feed.
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  These are things that maybe you could go find because there are
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  some lovely things that have happened.
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  I mean has been collective tears.
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  So the commanders wife Reed Wiseman, he is the mission
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  commander and his wife died of cancer in 2020 aged 46.
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  And during the flyby, they called down to it, to all down
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  to Earth. And they wanted to name a crater
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  after her. They spotted like a bright spot
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  on the moon. And they wanted to call it Carol
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  after his wife. So there's now a Carol crater on
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  the moon. And everybody cried in the
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  spaceship. Everybody cried.
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  And then they hugged each other. And then I'm pretty sure a lot
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  crying on Earth too. Yeah, I've seen a lot of posts
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  as well around This is what masculinity is.
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  It's like this is a real good moment to show that you know the
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  counter are, you know, the counter ballot counter argument.
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  So toxic masculinity. This is men crying, hugging each
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  other, loving each other, loving the moment.
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  And actually, that is amazing, so.
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  And they're in space. And then astronauts like don't
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  question their masculinity. Say another thing that's
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  beautiful about it is it is that it's kind of like that
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  counterpoint to all the manosphere nonsense as well,
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  isn't it, That they're all they're all there in space doing
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  their job as grown-ups. Like we don't have have to
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  engage ourselves in all of these petty, stupid squabbles.
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  And I think that's one of the things that people are maybe
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  feeling from it with the kind of the world's quite heavy.
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  And when you're literally seeing people looking back at Earth and
• 15:39
  you are seeing Earth from outer space, from the moon, you just
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  get this feeling of all of these stupid squabbles are
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  unimportant. Yes.
• 15:49
  We are so lucky to be we're so lucky to be here.
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  And I even saw one where someone was saying that she was asked
• 15:58
  what's her favorite planet. I can't remember who it was now.
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  I should have written up my notes.
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  This was just a thing that I literally read this morning.
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  And what's her favorite planet? And she always said Saturn
• 16:05
  because of the rings. But then when she went into
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  space and looked back and saw Earth, she realized Earth was
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  her favorite planet because it's.
• 16:11
  Yeah, home. And that's kind of beautiful.
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  Yeah. So that was that was beautiful.
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  Carol Crater. They have a mascot which floats
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  around their zero gravity indicator, which was designed by
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  an 8 year old because Lucas Yate chosen from 2600 entries across
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  50 countries. And it's the moon wearing the
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  Earth as a baseball cap, which is super cute.
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  So they've got that, they've got a beautiful photographs of the
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  Earth where you can see the Aurora borealis around the edges
• 16:43
  and stuff, which is absolutely beautiful.
• 16:45
  And the communications, a lot of those have been beautiful.
• 16:47
  So the International Space Station crew phoned Artemis for
• 16:51
  a chat as they went past the moon.
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  And how cool is that, that these people are in space just ringing
• 16:55
  each other for a chat. And they were very interested in
• 16:57
  the differences between each other's space spaceship.
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  So like again, there's people being people in a nice way.
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  And there was a amazing clips of of Christina calling down to, I
• 17:10
  didn't write that on my notes, Christina calling down to
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  Mission Control and speaking to a female mission controller down
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  on Earth. And there are so many women in
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  the control room as well. And historically, STEM has been
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  an area that women haven't gone into.
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  So the amount of women just involved in this, which is a
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  historic mission, I think is also basically, I'm quite
• 17:32
  excited. Can you tell?
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  You're quite excited, but what you haven't done is mentioned
• 17:37
  Nutella. Oh yes, got Natal.
• 17:39
  Because that one thing I noticed on the news was the Nutella jar
• 17:43
  floating around. And then I went online today,
• 17:48
  um, and obviously lots of people are talking about this and, and
• 17:52
  this what an advert for Nutella and have Nutella and Nutella are
• 17:56
  going to grab hold of this and actually do anything with it.
• 18:00
  And I've seen Nutella commenting on people's posts about the
• 18:04
  Nutella floating around run anything yet And it's like, you
• 18:09
  could not pay. I mean, how much would that cost
• 18:11
  from a marketing advertising budget perspective?
• 18:14
  One product, like branded product I've seen floating
• 18:18
  around, you know, you know, Nutella is Nutella because you
• 18:22
  got to have the OG. You can't have unbranded
• 18:24
  chocolate hazelnut spread. But also I've seen
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  nutritionists, you know who, you know, not nutritionists,
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  actually the people that claim to be nutritionists that make
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  videos in supermarkets saying you mustn't eat this thing
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  because it's going to kill you because it's got one thing in it
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  or you know that you should, that's a preservative or
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  whatever, which we did talk about on a podcast recently.
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  To me, the kind of counter argument people online have been
• 18:47
  saying, just proving that you know you can eat.
• 18:50
  What you want to eat, you just have to, you know, in moderation
• 18:54
  And look, they're up there and yeah, they're eating Nutella
• 18:56
  like it's fine, don't worry about it.
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  They had the amount of different kinds of food they've got up
• 19:01
  there is amazing. You know, I've seen that as well
• 19:03
  from like nutritionists and dietitians saying that, you
• 19:06
  know, there's variety of food up there because food is not just
• 19:09
  fuel. Also, you can eat things that
• 19:11
  taste nice even if you're in space.
• 19:13
  It's important to have things, even more important to have
• 19:16
  things that taste nice. If you're in space, yes.
• 19:17
  It reminds you of home and makes you feel comfort and I.
• 19:21
  Know Can you imagine sitting in a spaceship watching?
• 19:24
  Nor did they see the solar eclipse, didn't they?
• 19:28
  Yeah, watching the solar eclipse and eating Nutella on toast.
• 19:32
  Yeah, I don't like Nutella, but yeah.
• 19:33
  Well, that that sponsorship opportunity gone, Kate, I know
• 19:37
  well. I mean, I don't mind it, like in
• 19:39
  a crostle, making a point of kind of thing, but I have done
• 19:43
  things like that before. But I wouldn't.
• 19:46
  But the other thing I saw today was the daughter of one of the
• 19:51
  male astronauts. I can't remember his name.
• 19:54
  It was just like dancing around in a kind of my dad's better
• 19:58
  than your dad kind of thing. Again, of my memory is
• 20:02
  absolutely shocking. I only saw it about two hours
• 20:04
  ago. But she is basically just like,
• 20:07
  you know, my dad and my dad. My dad, Yeah.
• 20:09
  And my dad better than your dad. She doesn't actually say that,
• 20:12
  but that is kind of that, you know, I'm so proud of him.
• 20:14
  And it was just everyone underneath was like, I like, you
• 20:16
  know, like how cool that your dad is up in space.
• 20:19
  Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
• 20:21
  I think it is a truly historic moment, even if I do feel a
• 20:24
  little bit inadequate compared to the female astronaut.
• 20:26
  He was also born in the year I was born.
• 20:28
  I'm like, what have I been doing with my life?
• 20:30
  Like, seriously, you've got a podcast?
• 20:33
  Like it's hard. Great opportunity for all the
• 20:36
  headlines for Dark Side of the Moon.
• 20:39
  And what is Pink Floyd doing again for them from a marketing
• 20:42
  perspective? Get out.
• 20:46
  I'm such a marketeer. I'm like Nutella, why are you
• 20:49
  not? Doing something?
• 20:50
  About me look like, come on, everybody.
• 20:53
  So I mean. Of course, it's not been
• 20:57
  completely uncontroversial. Trump called them Oh.
• 21:00
  Yeah, yeah, that was control. I was going to go with a more
• 21:03
  general controversy, but yeah, that, no, I enjoyed that.
• 21:05
  The one where they like, literally sat there in silence
• 21:07
  after he'd finished speaking and then everyone.
• 21:09
  Was like gone and then they like, he's still there, OK.
• 21:15
  Yeah, I'm still here, OK. And everyone was like, Oh no,
• 21:18
  they weren't ignoring him. There was just a delay.
• 21:19
  And I'm like, I don't care. I still enjoyed it even if
• 21:21
  that's what was happening. But I'm not convinced it was a
• 21:24
  nine second delay. Not like a minute that they all
• 21:26
  sat there going swizzling that microphone.
• 21:29
  You have to remember it's a podcast.
• 21:30
  We've just done impressions. Oh yeah, impressions of
• 21:33
  twizzling a microphone. Insert your own there.
• 21:36
  That's fine. I was more.
• 21:37
  I was, I was going to talk about the financial aspects of it.
• 21:40
  I was literally thought I'd have my eyelashes done this morning.
• 21:42
  Again, irrelevant to anybody who can't see the video here, but.
• 21:45
  They look nice. Yeah, thanks, my my lash lady,
• 21:50
  she was saying. Oh yeah, because I keep seeing
• 21:52
  things about old like petrol so expensive but they can afford to
• 21:55
  go to the moon. So that's my yeah, this is my
• 21:59
  kind of slight it around space exploration and all the things
• 22:05
  that happen. I have nothing against it, you
• 22:07
  know, because it, you know, from a science perspective and you
• 22:11
  know, all that kind of stuff. But I just think when I look at
• 22:14
  the poverty stats in America, for example, and worldwide, I
• 22:18
  did voice sucked out, skips a book out. 35.9 So we'll round
• 22:23
  that up to 36 million people in America.
• 22:27
  I mean, I'm saying America, I don't even know who's funded
• 22:29
  this bear with it's it's NASA, isn't it?
• 22:32
  So presumably blood. I mean, Trump was even talking
• 22:35
  about cutting their budget, wasn't he?
• 22:36
  So I imagine the astronauts were all like massive fans of of his
• 22:40
  as well. So yeah, that wouldn't be, but
• 22:41
  like 40 million people in America are in poverty, 14% of
• 22:45
  children are in are in poverty. You know, 1/3 of kids in the UK
• 22:48
  are in poverty. It's the money aspect.
• 22:51
  Do you think if we were in a time of boom, I think I would
• 22:56
  feel less icky about the cost. And I'm just like, wow, that's a
• 23:00
  lot of money. I mean, you probably know how
• 23:03
  much money. I don't know how much money, but
• 23:06
  I just, yeah, it just makes me feel uncomfortable when there's,
• 23:11
  you know, that amount of kids, particularly in poverty.
• 23:14
  But I'm the same, I have to say around like fireworks, firework
• 23:18
  displays. We have one in the village and I
• 23:20
  once found out it cost £10,000 and I was like 10,000 lbs.
• 23:25
  And you've set fire to it. And I just feel like there's
• 23:29
  kids in our village that that have no food at home and, you
• 23:33
  know, like and come to school hungry.
• 23:35
  You know, I just, I, there's just that kind of ick about now
• 23:38
  I know it's different one's entertainment, one's science.
• 23:41
  And actually we, we should be able to enjoy ourselves and we
• 23:43
  should be doing scientific discoveries.
• 23:46
  But I'm just a little bit. I I I can see that point.
• 23:52
  It's a similar one of my the the distribution of resources is
• 23:58
  obviously like an ongoing question when there are people
• 24:01
  in the world I'm looking at U mask who could literally solve
• 24:07
  all of those issues by giving away not even 10% of the money
• 24:12
  that they have. So I feel like that that is
• 24:16
  there is an issue, but that doesn't mean we can't have nice
• 24:18
  things. I heard it.
• 24:21
  I even heard it locally here. We had a statue outside the art
• 24:25
  college here. There was a Damien Hirst
• 24:26
  sculpture and it went up for a while and people weren't
• 24:29
  complaining about it because there were potholes in the
• 24:33
  roads. And sometimes you just have to
• 24:35
  go, well, you can't. We can still have nice things.
• 24:38
  Yes, they should be fixing the potholes, but that doesn't mean
• 24:41
  nobody gets art or entertainment until the potholes are fixed
• 24:44
  because they'll always be something else that, you know,
• 24:47
  if they're fixing the potholes, then they'll go, oh, well, my
• 24:49
  hedge needs trimming or do you know what I mean?
• 24:51
  So that's like a small, tiny local thing, but I kind of I get
• 24:55
  that as an argument and I get why it gives you the ick, but I
• 25:02
  there is different ways of dealing with that other than not
• 25:05
  just just not doing the one thing.
• 25:08
  I think it's no one of the things I think about the
• 25:12
  economics about the economics argument, if it's again, stuff
• 25:15
  like space exploration is long term, isn't it?
• 25:17
  So if we don't put that money into it now in the future, that
• 25:20
  might be like a thing that's regretted.
• 25:23
  So using one of the ideas of this kind of these kind of
• 25:26
  studies is that the launching rockets from the moon would be
• 25:31
  cheaper than launching them from Earth because it's gravity is
• 25:33
  like 1/6 of the Earth. So if we need an off ramp that
• 25:38
  we're planning to explore any further out in the solar system,
• 25:41
  bearing in mind that we don't know what's out there and they
• 25:43
  could be like, Oh my God, well, this, this is fixed all of human
• 25:46
  humanities issues. Good luck.
• 25:48
  Then it would. It's cheaper to do that long
• 25:51
  term. From a base on the moon than it
• 25:53
  is from a base on Earth, just literally because of getting the
• 25:56
  rocket out of gravity. I see.
• 25:58
  I get that. But I think we need to fix our
• 26:00
  own planet first before we worry about what's happening on
• 26:02
  everybody else's on on the other planets.
• 26:04
  I think that's where I'm at. And that's, you know, I think we
• 26:07
  could do that with the moon, but you need to deal with holes,
• 26:10
  needs to do both. We could do that with the moon
• 26:13
  too, though, because one of the things they're looking for is
• 26:15
  particularly water. So I'm going to read my notes
• 26:19
  because this is all science stuff that does not stay in my
• 26:23
  head for for very long. There is South, the South Pole
• 26:26
  of the moon has water trapped in permanently shadowed craters.
• 26:29
  And so that could be split into hydrogen, oxygen.
• 26:35
  And that could again be to do with having a base on the moon.
• 26:38
  You can make rocket fuel. You don't have to ship
• 26:40
  everything from Earth. There could be water there that
• 26:42
  that then wouldn't have to be shipped from Earth if we were
• 26:44
  there. Then I've got oh, that's see,
• 26:46
  this isn't really relevant for this, but the moon could be a
• 26:48
  rehearsal space for Mars because Mars is 3 days away.
• 26:51
  Rescue is possible on the moon. So you kind of get a practice
• 26:54
  first with life support habitats, you know, before you
• 26:57
  get onto the the man on Mars, the film thing.
• 27:00
  But this was the one is that the so the age of some of the rocks
• 27:05
  on there as well. So they've got rocks on the moon
• 27:09
  that are older, that are older than anything on the Earth.
• 27:12
  So what we could learn from the moon, from the water, and from
• 27:16
  the rocks on the moon could potentially give us answers
• 27:20
  about Earth that could help us fix Earth things.
• 27:25
  You can tell I'm a scientist, can't you?
• 27:27
  You're a scientist and I'm not. And I'm like, well.
• 27:29
  I'm not a scientist. OK, but you're into it.
• 27:32
  And it was. I'm into it.
• 27:33
  You sound incredibly passionate about it.
• 27:35
  You of course, you can do all those things, but we know loads
• 27:39
  of things we could be doing in the world right now and we're
• 27:42
  not doing it. And it just I just, it's just
• 27:44
  that side of it that I'm like, we're focusing very much on the
• 27:49
  future, like very and far out in my opinion, when we need to just
• 27:54
  focus right now on this shit that's going on here.
• 27:58
  That's not taking away the feel good factor and the positive
• 28:01
  news story and and how interesting it is.
• 28:05
  I just, you know, feel like we've got so much more to fix,
• 28:08
  but this podcast would it? Who would have thought that
• 28:13
  going to the moon would be a big topic?
• 28:16
  Yeah, let's just deal with it. Well, we're going to move on to
• 28:18
  Kanye West in a minute, so that's another topic.
• 28:21
  Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm kind of in a place right now where I
• 28:26
  do get, I get your point. I do.
• 28:28
  I acknowledge, I acknowledge the point about, you know, how shit
• 28:32
  Earth is. But also maybe I think that's
• 28:34
  why I'm finding this such a positive story at the moment.
• 28:38
  Maybe I'm just jealous that they're not here.
• 28:41
  You just want to go to the moon and get off this planet.
• 28:44
  Christina, why did nobody tell me?
• 28:46
  If I'd known earlier on that I could not be on the planet right
• 28:49
  now, maybe I'd have worked harder in science.
• 28:51
  I failed science. Because you could probably tell.
• 28:54
  Anyway, we need to wrap it up because we've got to talk about
• 28:57
  yeah. I don't have any like insights
• 29:01
  to wrap this up with other than go Christina.
• 29:06
  Like Christina and the three. And the three men, I was just
• 29:10
  particularly focusing on her because the other, the other
• 29:15
  guys are absolutely awesome too. And I think it's been really
• 29:18
  special and getting those for over 50 years.
• 29:20
  You know, our cameras are so much better now.
• 29:22
  The images that are coming back are so much more detailed.
• 29:24
  And it's just, it is is beautiful.
• 29:27
  And I do really feel like if you look at those pictures, you can
• 29:31
  maybe get a little bit of a sense of perspective on the
• 29:34
  Earth. Our second topic today is Kanye
• 29:47
  West Wireless Festival, and I'm going to say freedom of speech,
• 29:51
  but yeah, we'll get on to that one.
• 29:54
  So a little bit of background. It's only about a week ago, so I
• 29:58
  had a conversation with my daughter.
• 30:00
  Wireless Festival has booked Kanye to headline 3 days of the
• 30:06
  Wireless Festival. It was like, oh, that's a bit of
• 30:09
  a controversial booking. And then it became more
• 30:14
  controversial because more people started talking about it
• 30:17
  and there was a huge backlash in the media and sponsors have been
• 30:24
  dropping out. So Pepsi's dropped out.
• 30:28
  And I'll give you a bit of background about this.
• 30:30
  So Kanye West, who's describes himself as the greatest
• 30:33
  rock'n'roll star in the world, he said that on Glastonbury
• 30:36
  stage and over the last few years done quite a few
• 30:41
  controversial to say the least things.
• 30:44
  And he does have bipolar, which is a known thing and has over
• 30:49
  the last few years had rants on Twitter.
• 30:53
  But as it was known then that were anti-Semitic has dropped
• 30:57
  working with him a couple of years ago because of the things
• 30:59
  he was saying. So this you know, he has he has
• 31:01
  had these manic episodes and gone online and said some
• 31:06
  dreadful things. But he's kind of taken it a few
• 31:08
  steps further in the last year. Last year he created merchandise
• 31:13
  with Softest swastikas on that were openly for sale.
• 31:18
  He also wrote a song called HH which is Harl Hitler last year
• 31:23
  which did quite well and performed it at many a festival.
• 31:28
  And so wireless have booked in and people in this country have
• 31:32
  gone whoa, I don't think Kanye should be headlining a three day
• 31:37
  festival each night. So three nights considering the
• 31:42
  anti-Semitic rhetoric he has been spewing in the last few
• 31:48
  years. As I said, Pepsi pulled out, the
• 31:50
  Ag Diageo pulled out. The owner of Wireless did a
• 31:54
  statement a couple of days ago saying he sells loads of records
• 31:58
  and so people buy them. So, you know, why can't he
• 32:01
  headline my festival? But didn't go down by well.
• 32:04
  And then yesterday, so Tuesday, the government, Keir Starmer
• 32:09
  said he was not welcome into the country.
• 32:12
  He would not be able to perform. Actually, it's worth saying
• 32:15
  Sadiq Khan last week as well said, well, we don't we don't
• 32:19
  want him in London. He doesn't stand his values and
• 32:21
  ethics do not stand for you know how we feel in London.
• 32:25
  We don't want him. So subsequently let's festival
• 32:29
  has been cancelled. So everyone needs their refunds.
• 32:33
  So I want to talk about this, but I don't necessarily want to
• 32:37
  get too stuck on him. Although let's talk about him
• 32:41
  like there's a few like things to really think about and chat
• 32:45
  about. 1 is the concept of freedom of speech.
• 32:50
  So there's a lot of people saying, well, so much for
• 32:53
  freedom of speech, but actually we do have freedom of speech,
• 32:56
  but there is consequence for what we say.
• 32:59
  So we could talk about freedom of speech.
• 33:00
  Consequences are important, the content of mental health because
• 33:07
  there's a lot of people saying, well, really sorry, I can't
• 33:10
  remember his name. And we talked about it on the
• 33:12
  podcast. The man with Tourette's at
• 33:14
  Laughters. Yeah, yeah.
• 33:17
  Was forgiven, forgiven a well, issued an apology and was kind
• 33:22
  of forgiven. Is that because he was white and
• 33:24
  Kanye's black and or we not, you know, are we not going to
• 33:27
  forgive Kanye? It's worth saying Kanye has
• 33:29
  issued did issue an apology at the beginning of the year.
• 33:33
  But again, you know, is bipolar. Is it an excuse to behave like
• 33:37
  this? Is it allowed?
• 33:39
  You know, it's all a bit of a tricky subject to talk about and
• 33:42
  lots of people talking about that.
• 33:44
  And I'd love to talk about that too.
• 33:45
  But I'd also really like to talk about the thing that my children
• 33:49
  keep saying. First of all, my daughter says
• 33:51
  it's such a shame about Kanye because it's got some real
• 33:53
  banging chains quote UN quote because, you know, historically,
• 33:57
  you know, he has had some buying shoes.
• 33:59
  But my son and and a lot of people like his friends, a lot
• 34:03
  of people are saying can you separate the art from the
• 34:05
  artist? You know, are you allowed to
• 34:09
  still listen to his music even though he said problematic
• 34:12
  things? So I'd love to talk about that.
• 34:15
  And the other things is I've got a list here, so seeing a lot of
• 34:19
  stuff about don't worry, can it be fine?
• 34:21
  Kanye is laughing always back about how male celebrities go
• 34:26
  through all this kind of cancellation through because of
• 34:28
  their really bad behaviour. And they're absolutely fine.
• 34:32
  Chris Brown still sells out stadiums even though I beat
• 34:35
  Rihanna, you know, and was charged for that.
• 34:37
  Whereas somebody like Chuckle Rone sets a few boundaries and
• 34:41
  everybody's really honor and is still talking about that.
• 34:44
  Something we talked about last week in the podcast.
• 34:45
  So it's kind of like, you know, cancel culture and how it
• 34:48
  doesn't always affect the men. So lots to talk about.
• 34:51
  Where are we starting? So what I'd really like to, to
• 34:55
  probably start with is the freedom of speech bit, because
• 34:59
  then we can move off. We'll talk about freedom of
• 35:01
  speech and, and the bipolar, mental health, all that kind of
• 35:03
  stuff. And then we can kind of move on
• 35:05
  from him and talk about. Other people.
• 35:07
  So freedom of speech, actually, I said that does have
• 35:10
  consequence. And you nodded straight away.
• 35:12
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's the thing
• 35:15
  people always forget about freedom of speech is, yes, you
• 35:16
  can say exactly what you like, but it doesn't mean that there
• 35:19
  aren't consequences to it. So in this case, the consequence
• 35:24
  is for him that he, that he's not welcoming the UK.
• 35:29
  I feel like we also don't technically have freedom of
• 35:33
  speech in the UK, do we? It's not like built into our
• 35:35
  constitution the way it is in the in the US because we have a
• 35:39
  kind of slightly different thing.
• 35:40
  But, and I think people just quite often forget that, you
• 35:43
  know, consequences of your, of your speech still always going
• 35:48
  to be there. You know, if you upset people,
• 35:50
  people are still going to be upset.
• 35:51
  And if you upset the wrong people, then you might not get
• 35:53
  to do what you want to do. It's, it's freedom of speech,
• 35:55
  not freedom to do whatever you please.
• 35:57
  So I, I do think that, that that is quite important, but I also
• 36:00
  think it's interesting with how that relates to his bipolar
• 36:04
  disorder. So it was it's John Davidson who
• 36:07
  was the guy with Tourette's at the at the BAFTA.
• 36:10
  But Tourette's and bipolar are different conditions.
• 36:15
  Obviously I am I am not an I did used to work in a psychiatric
• 36:19
  hospital, but I am not an expert.
• 36:21
  Feel free to tell me I'm wrong in the comments about all this,
• 36:26
  but my understanding is essentially with something like
• 36:29
  Tourette's, you will deliberately say things that you
• 36:32
  know are, are, are upsetting, offensive, that kind of thing.
• 36:36
  Your brain kind of goes straight to an area.
• 36:39
  It doesn't necessarily have any reflection on your beliefs, just
• 36:43
  that it's a word or an action that I must say that you know
• 36:48
  that you mustn't do. OK, So you know that that's
• 36:52
  there. And therefore it becomes like
• 36:54
  the elephant in the room and you, you physically can't stop.
• 36:57
  It's like a neurological, like blip bipolar.
• 37:01
  Bipolar is complicated but different and it essentially
• 37:05
  removes filters. I've worked with, I've worked
• 37:08
  with lots of people with bipolar and you know, there's, you think
• 37:11
  they're the nicest people in the world when they're on their
• 37:13
  medication and in their notes. There's just some terrible
• 37:16
  things that they've done. And that's the reason they were
• 37:19
  in a hospital rather than a prison for a lot of them.
• 37:22
  So again, it's not, it's not freedom from consequences, but
• 37:26
  it's an understanding that a disease can be what made you act
• 37:31
  on an impulse not that gave you the impulse.
• 37:35
  So bipolar tends to more remove filters.
• 37:40
  So when we're talking about Kanye, filters didn't make
• 37:43
  bipolar, didn't make him become anti-Semitic.
• 37:46
  Those beliefs will. Predate his manic episodes, but
• 37:50
  during manic episodes, the filters that means that you hold
• 37:53
  them in are removed. So the issue I have is, well, I
• 37:57
  mean, I know there are people close to me that have bipolar,
• 38:00
  so I don't understand it, but I know what happens, if you know
• 38:04
  what I mean. I don't understand what's
• 38:07
  happening in their brain, but I know what the output is.
• 38:09
  I can absolutely understand that in a manic episode.
• 38:13
  He could take to Twitter and say, but to come up with the
• 38:16
  idea of merch, design it, have it produced, have it made, have
• 38:22
  it shipped, have it uploaded to your website, that's like next
• 38:26
  level. That's not like 1 little
• 38:27
  episode. That's a whole chain of events.
• 38:30
  It says a supply chain in fact going on, and there will be.
• 38:34
  People involved in this. Exactly.
• 38:36
  Other people involved who had the option to say, whoa, I don't
• 38:41
  think this is a really great idea, mate.
• 38:43
  Maybe we shouldn't do that. Same with the song, you know, it
• 38:46
  had to be recorded, it had to be produced, it had to be put on
• 38:51
  Spotify like it. And it also continued to be
• 38:53
  played at festivals. So it's kind of like, I can
• 38:57
  absolutely understand manic episodes can lead to.
• 39:02
  Things happening, but that's a whole chain of events, isn't it?
• 39:05
  That's just like then on the kind of defence of the behaviour
• 39:10
  side, look at me being all balanced.
• 39:13
  The other thing that something like bipolar can do is like the
• 39:15
  removal of those kind of those, those filters.
• 39:19
  And that kind of control also makes someone very vulnerable to
• 39:25
  suggestion and to other people's ideas.
• 39:29
  So, and that is something that then can persist beyond a manic
• 39:34
  beyond a manic episode, I guess. So that is a concern as well.
• 39:39
  And, and and it's also it's always very easy to say, you
• 39:42
  know, people without people got all the money in the world what
• 39:44
  they got to worry about. But I, I genuinely think, and
• 39:47
  this is something we've seen with Brittany as well, is that
• 39:50
  sometimes all that money, fame and power can actually make you
• 39:53
  more vulnerable in a way, because it takes down some of
• 39:57
  those safeguards that you, if you're a regular person that
• 40:01
  hasn't got millions of dollars, there are people who are, who
• 40:04
  there are other people whose livelihoods depend on you, who
• 40:06
  are perfectly willing to let you go down.
• 40:10
  A terrible route and they've got no interest in your well-being
• 40:15
  or safe to eat just in the fact that you've got lots of money.
• 40:17
  So when we then start talking about supply chains and
• 40:20
  producing things, there are a lot of people in there who are
• 40:24
  essentially and they are taking advantage of a vulnerable person
• 40:31
  but we don't think that that's a vulnerable person because
• 40:33
  they're rich and they're making loads of money out of it.
• 40:35
  But we have to remember all the other people at places in that
• 40:38
  chain who are also making money out of it without, you know,
• 40:41
  calling their GP or mental health community mental health
• 40:45
  team, the kind of things that would catch a regular person,
• 40:49
  all those kind of safeguards just.
• 40:50
  Poof. There's been a lot of talk as
• 40:52
  well around the swiftness of the government banning him, but are
• 40:57
  happy to accept other people. So again, it's like, so he's not
• 41:03
  accepted, he's not coming, but Trump is, for example, there's
• 41:07
  lots of people saying that or other people on the Epstein
• 41:11
  list, you know, just etcetera, etcetera.
• 41:14
  He's just like, where does it stop?
• 41:17
  Why it is he the worst is that you know, like, so there's a
• 41:21
  lot. Nigel Farage, for example, has
• 41:24
  been quite vocal about how he should be accepted into the
• 41:28
  country. Interestingly, he did this whole
• 41:30
  interview around how people that wants to come to the UK should
• 41:33
  be allowed to come to the UK, which obviously did have quite a
• 41:36
  lot of the backlash around the from.
• 41:39
  You before. But again, Kanye is quite vocal
• 41:44
  in his support of Trump. So, you know, that's that's all
• 41:47
  that going on. What I think the one thing for
• 41:51
  me that I'd love to really talk about is the separating the art
• 41:55
  from the artist, because I do struggle with this myself.
• 41:58
  You know, there are so for example, Queens of Stone Age are
• 42:02
  one of my favorite bands, one of my favorite bands live.
• 42:05
  Josh Homie, this the lead singer.
• 42:07
  You know, his wife had a restraining order against him
• 42:10
  because of his violence, for example, as did his daughter at
• 42:13
  one point. I don't know if she still does,
• 42:15
  but I still have seen them live after.
• 42:19
  So does that make me a right royal hypocrite?
• 42:23
  You know, do you separate the you know, you know, it's just
• 42:27
  yeah, how does this work? Because nobody is perfect.
• 42:30
  Now, I'm not saying obviously there's one thing being
• 42:32
  anti-Semitic and and writing the HH soul.
• 42:35
  Let's just cut that for a moment.
• 42:37
  You know, people do questionable things, but they're creating
• 42:40
  art. There's probably artists that,
• 42:42
  you know, in the historical who have done dreadful things, but
• 42:46
  we still admire their art, you know, like, yeah, are we allowed
• 42:49
  to? Should.
• 42:49
  We not, I find this Quan, this is very interesting and I I
• 42:54
  can't part of me says that yes, we can have that separation, but
• 42:59
  that's between art and artists and not what the result is of
• 43:03
  your consumption of the art. And I don't know if that was
• 43:05
  very clear or if I should definitely clarify for a long.
• 43:09
  So I'm going to use JK Rowling as an example here because she's
• 43:14
  a recent example that's meant something particularly to me.
• 43:16
  So for JK Rowling has bizarrely suddenly decided that her sole
• 43:22
  thing in life is to bring down for for no reason whatsoever
• 43:27
  that I can work out. And I believe that she is wrong.
• 43:31
  But I have been a Harry Potter fan for years.
• 43:33
  I read the books when they first came out.
• 43:35
  You know, when the last book came out, I got it like on the
• 43:37
  day and read it all in one day. You know, I was a big, big Harry
• 43:40
  Potter fan. And for years I was a bit like,
• 43:44
  you know, when she was like, chanting along in the
• 43:45
  background, I was a bit like, why is she being a bit weird?
• 43:48
  And carried on doing my thing. And then I was a bit like, OK,
• 43:52
  well, no, you really are being weird now.
• 43:54
  And I started trying to consume it in a way that meant she
• 43:57
  didn't make any money out of it. Like, I'm happy to buy knock off
• 44:00
  bits of Aliexpress and I'm happy to buy.
• 44:03
  And I was reading the books that I already owned.
• 44:05
  And I have the audio books, which are narrated by Stephen
• 44:08
  Fry. I quite often listen to those
• 44:09
  while I was going to sleep, so I was trying to do it in a way
• 44:12
  that she wouldn't make any money out of it because I could see
• 44:14
  that she was using her money to do things that I did not agree
• 44:16
  with. Recently I put the audio book on
• 44:20
  to go to sleep and to be honest, the whole thing then just gave
• 44:23
  me a bit of ick because she'd got it was like she'd gone so
• 44:27
  far. She'd finally got to the point
• 44:29
  where I could not separate the art from the artist.
• 44:32
  And therefore that art was ruined for me because all I
• 44:38
  could think of while I was consuming the art, whether she
• 44:41
  was making any money out of it or not was was her.
• 44:44
  So I feel like there's like there's like levels of it is one
• 44:47
  of the things is if by consuming some of this art, are you
• 44:51
  funding things that you don't believe in?
• 44:54
  Are you providing financial aid to something that you don't
• 44:58
  believe in? Like she's using her money to
• 45:00
  actively fight against trans rights.
• 45:02
  And then there's that separation in your brain.
• 45:04
  Have are you at the point where you where you are making that
• 45:06
  separation? Because another example is Buffy
• 45:08
  where Joss Whedon turned out to be an actual idiot.
• 45:11
  And I know that you weren't a Buffy person.
• 45:14
  Like I am still a massive Buffy fan.
• 45:17
  So maybe just we didn't, maybe he just faded away into the
• 45:20
  background and I can still consume that and there, but
• 45:22
  there are a lot of people involved in Buffy.
• 45:24
  It's not just him. So there's also the kind of, is
• 45:27
  it an ensemble piece or is it a one off thing?
• 45:30
  Do I have a point? Who knows?
• 45:32
  It's it's just really hard, isn't it?
• 45:34
  And some people definitely don't come back.
• 45:40
  So, you know, and it's totally unacceptable to like fun.
• 45:45
  Obviously I'm to talk more in music sphere.
• 45:47
  So you know, Marilyn Manson, that's like a no, no.
• 45:50
  And I think everybody kind of agrees with that.
• 45:55
  But then Kanye, by what I'm reading, there's there's
• 45:59
  millions of people that don't care about that or maybe agree.
• 46:04
  I don't know. Obviously some people might just
• 46:05
  agree with what he said. So it's kind of like, yeah, it's
• 46:11
  a it's a hard one. And and sometimes back to this.
• 46:14
  Well, actually another point was around how men can come back
• 46:18
  from it. So I've seen quite a few posts
• 46:20
  in the last two days about Kanye, obviously, but then
• 46:23
  saying about Chris Brown, for example, and then saying about
• 46:27
  who else is that? There were other people on the
• 46:29
  list who just have bounced back. Russell Brand was another one.
• 46:33
  Yes, he might not be accepted in the commercial, you know what we
• 46:37
  see on television, but he's still making a huge amount of
• 46:40
  money and still hugely respected within the weird sphere.
• 46:46
  He's in his sphere and he's still making a fortune even
• 46:49
  though he's also going into court on rape charges.
• 46:53
  Like, so he's like, he's not being cancelled totally.
• 46:57
  But the posts I'm seeing are like, but the, you know, but
• 47:00
  then there's Chapel Rd. and people are still going on about
• 47:02
  how she's mean. And it's like because she sets
• 47:05
  some boundaries and it's just yeah, does it even have to
• 47:08
  anyway to Kanye? Like he's lost a bit of money,
• 47:10
  but not really. He'll make even more money.
• 47:12
  He'll go and do a different festival and he'll make an
• 47:14
  absolute shed loads of money. So it's kind of like, is there a
• 47:17
  point? Why?
• 47:18
  What's the I see again, one of those things might be
• 47:21
  perspective. I think because we because
• 47:23
  Chapel Rd. hasn't been cancelled like.
• 47:25
  Not only did she. Not do anything even that
• 47:27
  terrible, but there's people like us who were still like, you
• 47:31
  know, we're on your side Chapel. So maybe it's just that that
• 47:33
  polarization again, you know, so one person who is cancelled to
• 47:37
  us, you know, because people asked again, Oh, Chris Brown
• 47:40
  still making money and he is. But people who may have consumed
• 47:43
  his music before are now not because of that thing.
• 47:47
  So there is that polarization. There are some people who who
• 47:50
  who will either say that they can separate art from artist or
• 47:54
  agree. And then they're the people who
• 47:56
  can't separate it. So I think maybe it's just a
• 47:58
  decision that we ultimately have to make individually about the
• 48:03
  particular work of art, what it means to us, what the issue is.
• 48:08
  And and I think sometimes, again, that's that nuance that
• 48:10
  we kind of forget that like, it doesn't have to be one thing or
• 48:14
  the other. And that, you know, I can still
• 48:18
  have a soft spot for Harry Potter because it was, you know,
• 48:21
  with me through some like great moments in my life without,
• 48:26
  without loving JK Rowling. But if I make that decision
• 48:31
  right now to give her money when she has literally come out and
• 48:35
  said this is what I'm going to spend it on.
• 48:37
  That's something that morally you that you then have to deal
• 48:40
  with yourself and decide where your boundaries.
• 48:42
  Lie. But I do think everybody has the
• 48:44
  right to set their own boundaries.
• 48:47
  They do. But I think personally that's
• 48:50
  the bit I'm struggling with because it's like, on the one
• 48:53
  hand, if somebody is charged or yeah, charged, touched with some
• 48:58
  kind of abuse, I shouldn't listen to their music anymore
• 49:01
  because I feel like that's the right thing to do.
• 49:04
  If the man next door was charged with abuse, I wouldn't like talk
• 49:07
  to it. Like I wouldn't have anything to
• 49:08
  do with it. But then at the pull of the art
• 49:11
  becomes quite great. So I suppose for me, it's that
• 49:14
  kind of moral dilemma when I think of myself as a feminist,
• 49:18
  as somebody that, you know, is left wing, doesn't want people
• 49:21
  to be hurt, doesn't, you know, wants to do the right thing.
• 49:25
  But then the pull of the music or the film or the art or that,
• 49:28
  you know, it's so strong that it's like, then I think, oh, my
• 49:31
  God, I'm just a hypocrite. Am I allowed to be a hypocrite?
• 49:36
  Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
• 49:38
  It's kind of like I'm being pulled.
• 49:39
  I do. I do see what you mean.
• 49:41
  But again, there is it's there's, it's the layers, isn't
• 49:45
  it? When you say the pull of the art
• 49:47
  is so strong, does that mean buying new work that they've
• 49:51
  released? Does it mean going, do you know
• 49:54
  what? I love that particular song from
• 49:56
  the past. That was a real key moment in my
• 49:58
  life, so I'm going to play it now at home.
• 50:01
  Or is it, you know, if you have a public platform, playing that
• 50:05
  song on a public platform and therefore like promoting it to
• 50:08
  new people who may hear it and then get, do you see what I
• 50:12
  mean? There's so many layers to how we
• 50:14
  consume art as well. It's are we publicly consuming
• 50:19
  it? Are we privately consuming it?
• 50:20
  Are we consuming historical art? Are we supporting economically
• 50:24
  the production of new and controversial art?
• 50:27
  Like so where we where we set our limits on that spectrum
• 50:32
  might relate to, you know, as something that we essentially
• 50:36
  have to set ourselves on a case by case basis because there will
• 50:40
  be so many things feeding into it, like how much that meant to
• 50:43
  us, what that person did, whether and the all of that will
• 50:47
  all feed into it. And then we have to find that
• 50:50
  level within ourselves. Yeah.
• 50:51
  And I think it's sometimes sounds linked to the ongoing, I
• 50:54
  was going to say crying. I'm just going to call it
• 50:57
  crying. Not necessarily, you know, they
• 50:59
  need to be arrested crying, but that that they're doing because
• 51:04
  if somebody did something once, I might go, OK, I don't agree
• 51:08
  with that. It's really bad.
• 51:09
  Obviously it depends what the one thing is, obviously, but
• 51:12
  then say with Jokie Rowling, you know, it's continual and it's
• 51:15
  not going anywhere. It's not changing.
• 51:18
  And Kanye, the jury is still out because he's he has obviously he
• 51:22
  took out A1 cage in a in the New York Times.
• 51:25
  I think it was something like that, you know, apologizing.
• 51:28
  But will it happen again? I don't know.
• 51:30
  It's still, to me, it still feels quite raw and ongoing.
• 51:36
  And then somebody that did something 10 years ago and has
• 51:40
  not done it again, you know, again.
• 51:41
  And it's that's where the nuance comes in as well, doesn't it?
• 51:44
  Yeah, I think I think back to Kanye particularly like because
• 51:50
  besides get headache now, this is all very deep for lunchtime.
• 51:55
  Yeah, like back to Kanye, I think booking him to headline
• 52:00
  three days of a festival feels like not the best idea at the
• 52:04
  moment. He is saying that he is now in
• 52:05
  treatment and stuff, but but it's not something that I would
• 52:09
  have chosen myself. I mean, not that anyone's ever
• 52:11
  going to ask me who's who they want to headline wireless, but I
• 52:14
  feel like it was a it was a poor choice.
• 52:16
  But then when it comes to saying he's banned from the UK again,
• 52:21
  maybe that feels very extreme to me when other people, when other
• 52:25
  people are and it felt quite, it feels quite knee jerk reaction,
• 52:30
  which I am never a fan of. And also then because it's
• 52:34
  anti-Semitism as well and all starts tying into an awful lot
• 52:38
  of other shit going on in the world at the moment as well.
• 52:40
  And so the that feels like an extreme reaction to me, but also
• 52:47
  booking him to headline wireless feels foolish.
• 52:50
  Yeah, but then you know he's the greatest man in the rock.
• 52:54
  Whatever what he said on Glastonbury headline glass
• 52:57
  Rooney stood there and said I'm the greatest rock'n'roll * I
• 53:02
  mean, that's definitely a thing that the kind of thing that
• 53:05
  bipolar can make you say. I don't excuse me, I don't think
• 53:08
  that's factually correct. But then as my son pointed out
• 53:12
  last year Wireless booked Drake for three, three days and
• 53:16
  there's been lots and lots of stuff about him and his texting
• 53:20
  13 year old girls. And so again, like Wireless
• 53:23
  probably, you know, it's used to a little bit of control
• 53:26
  controversy. I think the fact that they've
• 53:28
  gone from a music perspective, Wireless used to have a
• 53:31
  different deadline acts across every day and then last year
• 53:34
  they did one act for three nights and they've repeated it.
• 53:38
  And obviously if you cancel one of those people, the whole
• 53:41
  festival's gone. So hopefully they will not do
• 53:44
  that again because that's. Economically, there's a decision
• 53:47
  to to. Did the government need to ban
• 53:51
  him from the country as wireless lost all their sponsors?
• 53:54
  Could it have happened anyway? You know what I mean?
• 53:56
  If you lose all your sponsors, it does seem a bit knee jerk.
• 54:00
  And as you said, and it's also given a rise to a lot of people
• 54:05
  saying, as I said earlier, well, you've banned him, but you
• 54:08
  haven't banned him or, you know, what happened to freedom of
• 54:10
  speech, You know, it's all just now.
• 54:12
  And even more conversations rather you know and lost the
• 54:16
  point of should he have headline in the 1st place.
• 54:20
  But that does mean Finsbury Park is free 10th to 12th of July.
• 54:24
  Do you think we should book it for a live podcast recording?
• 54:27
  It worked a bit wireless two years ago and yeah, it was quite
• 54:34
  good. But yeah, I don't know what
• 54:37
  they're going to do now. That's a lot of money lost and
• 54:39
  refunds given. So yeah, can I'm going to go and
• 54:42
  carry on thinking then about separating the art from the
• 54:46
  artist. I do think it's, it's a tricky
• 54:49
  1, You know, it's like it, didn't you wear Hugo Boss?
• 54:53
  But Hugo Boss, didn't he create uniforms for the Nazi party or
• 54:57
  something, you know? Chanel's another one.
• 55:01
  Chanel's another. You know, and it's, and I know
• 55:03
  that's obviously really historical and not happening as
• 55:06
  we speak, but yeah, I don't know.
• 55:09
  It is AI believe that it it has and will continue to be an
• 55:14
  ongoing debate. So sorry we couldn't solve it in
• 55:17
  the last 10 minutes. Thank you for joining us for
• 55:22
  another roundup of midlife chat, hot takes, and occasional
• 55:25
  moaning. Well, quite a bit of moaning.
• 55:27
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• 55:31
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