Latest / Skin Anarchy / Reframing Our Relationship With Time Through Fragrance With Linen Tutu

Transcript

Reframing Our Relationship With Time Through Fragrance With Linen Tutu · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to the Nanarchy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually I'm really excited because this is the Fragrance Friday episode and we're gonna be introducing you guys to a brand today that I've absolutely fallen in love with, um, especially one fragrance specifically.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a beautiful luxury niche brand, and I think that's like for me personally, that's when I feel like I've found the hidden treasure, you know, in the fragrance world, is when I can discover beautiful brands that are very niche, but they're extremely well crafted, you know.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So this is one of them.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So without me ranting too much, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of Linen2, Daniela Carrasco.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Daniela.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so honored to host you.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much, Ecta.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to be here.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, big fan of the podcast, and I appreciate all the kind words.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean they're I mean they're well deserved.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: You've created such a beautiful brand and it I can see how much of yourself you've poured into this, you know, the creativity.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because like I said, you know, I'm I kind of already shouted out one of the fragrances called Afterthought.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And for anyone listening, you know, if you're looking for the first thing, you know, the first fragrance look for this one is so it's beautiful, it's complex, and I can't wait for you to explain the vision to us, right?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Of the whole brand.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to get started.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me about your background?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's really interesting, you know, like the way you're approaching fragrance.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So before I got into technical perfumery, I I found the world of scent through aromatherapy.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: This was almost a decade ago.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was kind of going through a period of time where my anxiety, I've always struggled with anxiety, but it was at an all-time high.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, I somehow stumbled into an aromatherapy course in New York City at the time.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, just my life has never, I mean, this sounds like a cliche, but my life hasn't really been the same after that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: It finally gave me a way to quiet my mind.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm kind of person that struggles with, you know, when people say like, oh, quiet the mind, you know, I'm like, how what does that mean?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know what that means.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: But when I'm immersed in an aromatic material, I finally like understand that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only way I can actually like be present and focused.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so it really transformed my life.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of found the world of scent through that.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I had always been interested in aromas and like, you know, and looking back in hindsight, I could see that a lot of my childhood I was curious about it, but I just maybe didn't have a forum to explore it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Aromatherapy.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I did become a certified aromatherapist, and and I'm, you know, I'm talking about like not not necessarily the woo woo stuff, nothing wrong with that, but like actually studying the like clinically backed effects of certain aromatic substances on the psyche, right?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like sometimes the word aromatherapy gets tossed around, but like there are actually a lot of really interesting studies that try to to distill and unpack the effects that yeah, different aromatic substances can have on mood, on how you feel, right?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I know exactly.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think like a couple of times I've tried to bring this topic up before, but like you're you've explained it so perfectly is that it's real, there's this is real, you know, there's a science to this.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's where I I feel like aromatherapy, you're absolutely correct, is that it gets kind of misconstrued, you know, and in that like we're talking about like essential oils and we're talking about, you know, all this like incense stuff or whatever.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what people perceive, right, when they hear aromatherapy, but I agree that it's much more structured than what we realize.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's the like kind of more clinical practice, which is like if you have a muscle pain or like a physiological symptom that, and and aromatherapy does have its limits with this for sure, but like, you know, having a muscle oil that maybe with some ingredients that can help, you know, calm it or reduce pain, you know, to again to a certain extent.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that part was interesting to me, but not I was not as kind of enamored by it as the other part of aromatherapy, which is more the emotional piece and the aesthetics, right?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, to to convey a feeling or an impression, an emotional or yeah, impression, you really do need to consider the aesthetics of an aroma that of a formula that you're putting together.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so that opened up my mind into like, wait a minute, this is actually like this starts to veer into the direction of perfumery.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I began, you know, in the US it's tough because we don't have a lot of like formal programs for perfumery.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are really great courses and really amazing organizations doing the good work, like the Institute of Art and Olfaction in LA is a big one.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Karen Gilbert, who's based out of the UK, she runs an online program.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's fantastic.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned a lot from her.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's like there's a number of experimental perfume clubs also based out of the UK.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you can, over course of time, like you can build your own sort of curriculum, but it is actually pretty challenging.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's especially at that time.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Now there's more, but it was pretty challenging to find like courses and textbooks.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's I spent years really trying to like study this, practice it, building my lab and my studio, building my perfumers organ, and kind of it sort of like went in that direction.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's really interesting.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like how you said that though.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to interrupt, but like it reminds me, you know what fragrance has always reminded me of?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big like computer game geek.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So like it's always I always reference like MMOs, but like alchemy is what it reminds me of.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like alchemy, like it's really a craft.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, and I don't know how you would teach that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know that there's like you said, like I think Europe very is very good about having like these, you know, kind of an institutional system where you can learn and you can really, but yeah, we have nothing on the US side.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I haven't seen anything either.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting that you said that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what's interesting about that is it's kind of led to this, I don't know, exploration of perfumery in the States that is very creative because we have a less structured way of learning about perfumery.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think in in some ways, like, yes, on the surface it's a limitation, but if you go deeper, it cannot also be a source of creative freedom because you kind of you don't know what you don't know, and like maybe you're more free to explore certain things.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's led to like a different genre of independent perfumery in the US, which is super interesting.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But so I was kind of still, to be honest, like craving a more I'm a nerd, I have to tell you.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love school, I love textbooks, I like learning.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I could be a student my entire life, I would.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was craving something a little bit more structured.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I found a program at Parsons School of Design.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a strategic design program, but big part of its curriculum was about multi-sensory design.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, hmm, this is interesting.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I met with the program director, and she was very encouraging of being able to like within the program spend some time and really focus my independent study on old faction.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so it gave me like a structured learning environment in more of like an art school setting to really, yeah, explore my and and define my perspective on perfumery.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved it.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I mean, it's been, yeah, it's been really transformational for me.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool though, because I feel like there is this like unspoken, you have to learn almost like in a classical way art to like really understand like in what fragrance is, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, the art and design and all these things are not it, it's a totally different thing that we're talking about, right?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: When we're we're going in that realm.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, like fragrance is not any other beauty category.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like a, it's literally like, you know, when you're painting, you combine colors to make a very specific hue.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And like the it, there's so much that's happening all at once from the creative angle that like you almost do need this classical kind of art background or some sort of training, I think, that's going to get your mind in this place.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because oftentimes what I've noticed, and I'm, you know, I'm no expert by any means, but what I've noticed sometimes with niche brands, and I and this is why yours really stood out to me, was because sometimes niche brands can do like like one note is extremely strong, you know what I mean, in the in the fragrance.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's maybe they were going for something, but it comes off as almost like there's no depth to the scent, and then it like doesn't, it doesn't translate for consumers, you know what I mean?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think the way that they think, and I always wonder about that, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like you start thinking about like what goes into like people can say like there's top notes, there's you know, middle notes based, whatever, but like what does that really mean when it comes down to the end product?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I find it to be very I find the creativity to really shine there, you know what I mean?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: If someone can create that end product, that's going to give you this, like you said, that multi-sensorial experience.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So having an education in sensory, you're right, is like it makes sense for this.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And 100%.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many, like, you know, if you look at the principles of visual design.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're talking about like contrast and balance and hierarchy of palette, right, of materials, all of those things translate into composing a formula.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like perfumery is definitely a science too, but there is a lot of art that goes within it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like finding that balance, I personally feel is a combination of the science and the art.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that you can like you can approach perfumery from a very technical standpoint and say, well, in theory, these molecules should work well together.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: But there's this, if you really want to like get to people's, you know, understanding and emotion and like move them, I do think like having a, I don't know, a a sort of like artistic point of view, and that might look different for everyone, but I do think that it really makes a difference in being able to communicate something, you know, that is more than one-dimensional to your point.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious though, what made you think of the name?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because the name is very unique.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So linen tutu is the juxtaposition of two textures that together represent the DNA of the brand.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you have linen on one end, which is a fabric made of flax, it's both bio-based and biodegradable in its unaltered form.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have tutu, which is kind of short for toll, like the fabric that ballerina skirts are made of.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this is very fluid, it's transparent, it's kind of like a watercolor.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if texture uh was a visual art medium, it'd be like watercolors.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So these two things together, that's really, I think that's a common thread that you see throughout the collection.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's so beautiful.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I love that.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's so beautiful.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a it evokes such a beautiful mental visual, you know.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was just thinking about as you were speaking, and and then having experienced your sense, I see it, you know, I see why your sense reflect that actually.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because and I want to dive into that actually.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now I'm excited because like it really, that was a cool experience just now.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, I want to talk about your sense because I think that that's where your brand is so, so like I feel like the amount of care you've taken, it really shows, right?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the in the overall way that the fragrance is experienced.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I keep mentioning the Afterthought at Seven.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: That one is stunning, but all of them are stunning, you know.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the reason I'm saying that is exactly what you just described.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you first experience the scent, for me, I can say this would happen.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I first experienced it, Afterthought at Seven is supposed to be, I think, a marine scent, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like a fresh.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I I do experience that, but then it's like you've blended in this beautiful subtlety of like floral, and it just comes in and it's like you ride a wave when you experience this fragrance.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, it really did take me on that like emotional ride when I first, you know, smelled it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd love for you to explain your vision with this scent and also the whole collection, you know, in terms of how did you do that?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the collection, the debut collection is four fragrances.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's up at one, hearsay at three, lately at five, and after that at seven, right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they kind of they each fragrance represents the human relationship with time.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So up at one is about anticipation, hearsay at three is about individual presence.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Lately at five is connected presence, like being with someone else or with other people and connecting with them, being present.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And afterthought at seven is about reflection.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really interesting that that one resonated the most with you.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I this is one I would say I was probably when I was formulating Afterthought at seven, it was a very emotional time period in my life.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was just kind of actually the height of the pandemic.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: We were still in lockdown.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was had just left the city.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: My husband and I had just left the city, and we were missing people, we were missing places.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, kind of wistful, kind of missing what I had, but also grateful that now, you know, we where we moved, we had a little bit more space and we were able to just walk over to the Hudson River and kind of like unload there and just like stare at the water.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about water that's very magical to me.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's very meditative.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up in Miami, so I've for the most part, I've been around water most of my life.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so each one of the fragrances, right, represents a different vantage point.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I went about that is in aromatics or in aromatherapy and the therapeutics of scent, but there are ingredients that are more stimulant.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So citrus, spices, right?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: These are like invigorating, energizing.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have other ingredients on the opposite end of the spectrum that are more sedative.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So woods, incenses, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: These are grounding, they're very calming.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I took that, and this is where design comes in.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I took that framework and applied it to the collection.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you have like up at one, has it's much more of like a stimulating, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Stimulant fragrance.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It has a lot of citrus, it has coriander, so there's that initial burst.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you go, you know, to the afterthought part of the spectrum, this is more sedative.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Afterthought, like you beautifully articulated, it's a riverside scent.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a river take on an aquatic.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's not oceanic, but it is, um, it's really about a river which is, and the Hudson River, which is an estuary, which actually combines freshwater and and salt water, but it's anchored by a lot of woods, and there are some florals in there as well, and there's greenery.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is a much more reflective and melancholic kind of fragrance, if you will.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's so, you know what?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you've you've incorporated time.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is so special because I I've always said this.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've told my family this, my friends is always my favorite time of day is that around that seven o'clock time.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it feels like especially on something like a Friday, you know what I mean?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: That feeling that you get of like you're so excited because you're like winding down, but you're just done for the day.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you can't really explain that feeling.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, I don't know, you know, when people ask you things like what's your favorite day of the week or what's your favorite time of the day, for me it's always been that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because of exactly what you said.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's it makes so much sense to me psychologically now because I love that time of day because it's not just about like unwinding, it's like you you take a breath for a minute, you know, and it's like that's my time of the day where I'm just like, okay, you know, and I you sit down and you reflect.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting what you said about, you know, like the it's not like oceanic, and that's exactly um what it brings forth.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like this super strong, like marine, like kind of, you know, all the all the fragrances lately that I've smelled in this category have been very strong on the marine side.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I found this to be unique because it's very like it's there, but then it doesn't like kind of smack you in the face, you know, it's like very subtle and it allows for the other notes to really come through where you feel like it's like sitting in your garden, you know what I mean?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like casually like you're smelling different things, right?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's the flowers or the air or the breeze, like you're having an experience, and that's what this evoked for me, you know, when I first tried it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it, it actually makes psychological sense.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's my point of my rant.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that, I mean, it's so interesting that your favorite time of day, that seven o'clock is your favorite time of day.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like I just, you know, there's so much to unpack there, like something about that, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Something about that feeling of like the sun setting and maybe taking a walk outside, like something connected to you.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I love how you articulated the the contrast between or the difference between something that's more oceanic versus riverside.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: When you go to the beach, right, you go to the ocean, and I lived near the ocean for many years.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that is the main event.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were there for the ocean, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're there to be on the beach.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you take a walk near the river, it's, I mean, yes, you want to be near the river, but there's so much happening around you.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of greenery, like maybe it just rained and it's a little bit dewy, and you know, there's like there's just so much more.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so the river isn't, it's not as much as like the main event as everything else.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like it really works very bad in a very balanced way and more in unison with the other botanicals in the environment.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I it's really, really unique.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to ask you, like, I want to explore the whole um idea, because you know, you said you've said before that your work really explores the human relationship with anticipation, presence, reflection.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: How did you bottle this up?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is a very deep concept.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's kind of the that that resonates throughout your your brand and you know what you've spoken about so far.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how did you really bottle this up in a fragrance?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I mean, I think, you know, a big part of it is is that stimulant to sedative uh framework or spectrum and just kind of taking that and finding parallels.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, and in the design world, it's something, I mean, that's a tool I love to use, is like finding analogs and parallels in the natural world around us to kind of guide the creative process.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I I when I was formulating, um, for example, you know, up at one, I knew that this is a Saturday morning, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're waking up late on a Saturday morning, you have the whole weekend ahead of you.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's that, what's that feeling that you have when you first open your eyes, you first wake up?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: There's this sort of like rush of energy, there's the optimism, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we look at that spectrum and like what's more, what is energizing, what's invigorating, what are the molecules or the raw materials that, you know, and I and part of it was also just looking at studies, like what has been proven to have an invigorating effect or a stimulant effect.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so this one has a lot of citrus and it's very aldehydic and it has like this initial burst.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, I took some creative liberties because I know in the real world anticipation, right, is really beautiful because it's this like pristine picture of what the future can look like.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: But as time goes by, the reality, like it may be beautiful as well, but it might be a little bit different than that initial burst.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when this fragrance dries down, it's much more creamy and it's a little bit more like a blanket and it's comforting.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that wave, that like contrast of the the lived experience of anticipating, you know, I baked it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a combination of like the science of like what's a stimulant, what's a sedative, and you know, in between, like the the ones that are about presence, like here say at three is about individual presence, lately at five is about connected presence.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Those kind of have to have a mix of both.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I do feel you need, you know, that that balance to be able to be present in life.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the other, you know, the other thing I will say is the human relationship with time and the passage of time um is something that really intrigues me and really inspires me.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's something that we humans struggle with partly because it's tied to our own mortality, kind of like it it really is tied to our mortality, which is a scary thing and it's something that I I feel many of us grapple with.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we live so much of our lives, and I'll I'll speak for myself.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know I've lived a lot of my life focusing on the past, what I could have done differently, or focusing on the future, what's to come, and trying to be present, but I have a really hard time being present, if I'm honest.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so our struggle with time ends up being a source of stress.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And through this collection, I wanted to actually reclaim that and transform it into a source of awareness or even a source of empowerment.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that kind of like all of that formed the inspiration for what ultimately was bottled.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, I love everything you said, and I think that's so valid.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this this idea of time is so closely tied to our own mortality, but also it's so tied to our perception as well of everything.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like we accelerate our own time, we also decelerate, you know, it's like there is this whole phenomena going on with the human experience when it comes to time.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about like, okay, well, it's noon and noon is experienced the same way everybody experience, you know, everybody doesn't experience different times of the day the same way, just like we don't experience different events in our life the same way, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like that there's a fluidity in time.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that fluidity is like, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what I was trying to explain to you, like earlier, you know, when I was saying like seven o'clock is my favorite time of day for my own reasons.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it evokes this feeling in me that call causes me to feel happiness or you know, calmness or just reflection, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like those things are not easily explained.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like that you brought time into the equation here because I think sometimes when we're not able to explain the emotions or our experiences, we can kind of do it through reflecting on the time period in which that thing occurred, if that makes sense.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the whole idea of presence, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like you're the people say be present, and it's like you're always present.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like when do you notice that you're present?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's when something in time has caused you to experience something that makes you notice your presence.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So true.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I feel like the fragrance world is so powerful and it has so much strength behind what it, you know, what you're able to do with fragrance because it will pull someone in and you'll really experience presence there.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when people say, Oh yeah, scent is tied to memory.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's why it's tied to memory because you were pulled in for a minute.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's I I love it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you've what you've done and and that is real thought, you know what I mean, and creativity.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just beautiful how you've crafted this.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to talk about like how it was for you to create a brand that is obviously, you know, it's it's beautiful.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the products speak for themselves, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: But also you're doing this this approach of like it's biodegradable, all the but you're using botanicals, you know.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: How was that whole formulation process like for you, you know, from the creativity standpoint?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was pretty challenging.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll, you know, the first thing I'll say is I work with all materials, generally speaking, naturals and synthetics.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: This collection in particular, and this brand, I wanted it to spotlight botanicals for a number of reasons, but it is it's a huge challenge to formulate using botanicals.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So two, you know, initial challenges that come to mind.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: One one is just because something is botanical doesn't mean it's inherently sustainable.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, when we're using materials that come from the earth, we have to do it with even more care and respect, in my opinion.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're taking something from the planet, and so we have to have a way of kind of giving back to it and like making sure that there's renewability.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: So this is really challenging.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And doing the research in terms of sourcing and suppliers for each raw material, that takes time and it's it's not easy.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't believe in blanket statements, right?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in nuance and I think saying like, oh, all natural materials are this or all synthetic materials are that, like that's not true, nor science-based.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Each substance, each molecule is unique, and you kind of we have to treat them as such.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So doing the research, supplier, sourcing, all of that really matters.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's one challenge.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second one is there's just a practical challenge of a palette restriction.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So although I generally work with a full palette inclusive of both naturals and synthetics, that that generally gives you the ultimate creative freedom, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can use any ingredient, there are thousands of ingredients, and you have like this is the a very freeing thing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: But this collection, as you know, was intended to be bio-based, biorenewable, which means immediately you're restricting your palate to a much narrower set of ingredients, which is a a restriction on how you formulate, how you create what you're using in each of the fragrances.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one caveat to that is, or or one addition, maybe I should say, is there are a number of like newer aroma molecules that are that are coming out that are actually bio-based or and derived from renewable feedstock through fermentation, for example.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So like the embroxide that I use is developed through fermentation.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe the the origin source or like the feedstock is sugarcane.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this is really cool.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the big fragrance houses have invested in green chemistry over the past, I don't know, however many years, 10, 20 years, maybe more.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so over the past several years, we're seeing more and more ingredients added to the palette that are biorenewable.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so this has expanded the palette of like botanical or you know naturally derived materials that you can work with for a fragrance that has a brief or a kind of creative palette restriction that's specific to natural.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the, I would say, like the two initial challenges that come to mind.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it is, you know, sometimes you you say, like, for example, if if I don't have this restriction, oh, I want a base of a lot of different kinds of musks.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there aren't that many musks that are available, like plant-based, right?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: So not animal products, but like there aren't many that are available in the natural palate.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so you it kind of this restriction, I actually find to be sometimes a source of inspiration for creativity because you kind of have to get creative in terms of what you blend together, what you combine, and maybe like even question how things have been done before and like try something new.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that part I find really challenging and fun.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool, actually, what you said, because it kind of makes me think of how, you know, like I think like personally speaking, I think biotechnology is the future, you know, when it comes to a lot of different, you know, um industries.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I think also there is this beauty in, you know, when we're talking about something like botanicals, right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've always thought this, like when nature creates something, there are so many layers to that, you know, and so you're gonna discover like a fractal, you know, everything's like it's like one thing that reflects the same way on a smaller scale, and you keep reading, it's like you you know, it's it's much more than like peeling back layers.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's not even like the right, you know, uh phrase for me to use.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're rediscovering molecules by experiencing the first ones, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So like that's how nature works in general.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's just science.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's a real beauty in that when you're working with that, you know what I mean, from that angle.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I gen I'm genuinely curious to see like where this industry goes in the future of biotechnology, because I think like if we could figure out how to do that in a sustainable way in a lab, that would be amazing.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then like link that up with like neuroscience, right?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Where you're able to then see like the parts of the brain that light up when you do experience like you know, what you've created with your sense, like in this collection, like if you could neuroimage somebody experiencing a fragrance that's supposed to evoke like you know, something that's more like you know, enzytic or something, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: That would that's powerful to see that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that then can guide, right, biotechnology.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm very fascinated by this, this whole botanicals world, you know, because of that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, we've used botanicals in so many areas of just human innovation, you know.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Look at our medicines, you know what I mean?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Look at everything that we've discovered in terms of like even like penicillin, everything comes from this place of extreme complexity, you know, and botanicals are definitely a reflection of that.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I find that to be very unique, you know, it was your brand that you did this.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't even reflect actually, like it shows that you have very precision in your formulas, actually.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not messy at all.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm very intrigued by this.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I love how you articulated this, like what the future can look like.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think biotech, right, having more, having access to a palette that's increasingly renewable, um, and combining that with the neuroscience of things.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel like there are pockets of that happening, but I love your vision of putting those things together.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that could be the next way, like this could be the future of fragrance.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean it would be a dream.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to see it, you know, because that would be so, so powerful, even from like the stance of, you know, people talk about there's like Eastern medicine, Western medicine.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a huge part of that is fragrance, actually, you know, like a huge part of it is like neurocognitively, like your brain completely lights up when you like smell really good food or like you go somewhere that you remember, you know, and I don't know why we we should be investing in that in this industry.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I agree, I agree.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I do think that's the future.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you hit on something else that I find really like it has been kind of a personal transformative experience for me working with a lot of naturals for this collection.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is I so I find them, you know, as I mentioned before, like more challenging to control.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that is with synthetics, you're talking about like an individual molecule, like an individual chemical constituent, right?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can be much more precise.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier to scale, it's easier to replicate a formula that has a lot of synthetics.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Naturals, right, if you look at the GCMS of a, for example, lavender oil, right, you're gonna see a number of chemical constituents within them, linolol, linololacetate, coumarin, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so being able to look at that and say, well, if I'm gonna formulate with this ingredient, you like I need to kind of like follow, like ride the wave of the ingredient that exists, right?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if I want to take that lavender and make it more floral, I would push the linolol, right?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe have more linolol in there.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you want to push the freshness, you can dial up the linolol acetate.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, in my personal life, you know, and I'll be really honest, like I struggle with control.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: If I feel like I don't have a like control of what's going on, of my plans, of the future, it's something that I I grapple with quite a bit.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when I'm formulating like naturals, it's it's kind of like a very humbling reminder that I have to ride the wave because control can also be a barrier to creativity.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if I relinquish a little bit of that control and go with the flow and kind of like move to the march to the beat of the ingredients drum instead of trying to like super control everything, you can explore creative territories that maybe you wouldn't have otherwise.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's so real.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I completely resonate with that because you know, some like a mentor told me a long time ago, I'll never forget this.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like so young, and this is like totally in another, you know, it's this is medicine, but they were talking about how like you know, there's no better machine than the human body.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're never gonna learn more than you're gonna learn from what naturally exists, you know what I mean?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the it's like like that idea of like there's so much complexity, but there's so much precision, you know what I mean?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the in in all of it, it looks like a big gray area.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: It just looks like, well, this is just a lot of different, but no, it's very precise, you know what I mean?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I said what I said about your your fragrances, there is a precision, you can smell it, you know what I mean?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like your everyday marine fragrance, it's not like your, you know, another floral scent in your collection.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's very apparent that you've done this, you know what I mean?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: The way of like you've tweaked it perfectly.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I can smell that because of the way that the fragrance lingers, you know.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I am no fragrance expert.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, it's actually hard for me as a consumer to articulate what fragrance actually makes me feel.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing I do recognize as a consumer is when something can it it gives you an experience, but then it also lasts in a very unique way.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what they call, I think when they say a scent feels like it's lived in, you know, that's what I mean.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's to me, that's what that means.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So like I experience that with your collection, you know, and that's very difficult to achieve because you're essentially replicating what we see nature all the time.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the hardest thing to replicate.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's like nature is the most exquisite thing in the world, you know.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, I I don't know, I I find it to be so fascinating that you've been able to do this.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what's really cool?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's really cool is that you mentioned that you have struggled with anxiety.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not cool that you have to do that, but it's cool because I've noticed that people who experience anxiety have this ability to filter, like they're you're hyper-aware of like everything.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like the nuances of every situation.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I myself have have had anxiety.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So like I know that experience of like you go through this emotional, I think, I don't know, like change in life as you're experiencing it, where it allows you to decipher or notice things maybe another person wouldn't notice normally.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so those little things stand out more.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that, you know what I mean?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like that that adds to like your own understanding.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I I feel like I can see you in your collection, you know, the way your personality might be is reflected in this as well.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very cool.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that means a lot.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: That that that went straight to the heart.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, I I really mean it.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I just, you know, like I said, I'm I'm not the best with words, but you know, I I'm noticing certain trends, you know.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I would love to talk about what is the future for Lin and Tutu?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are you working on another collection or are you, you know, coming out with something in the near future?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there is a yeah, there are a couple things I'm working on.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: So longer term, there are there's a collection, maybe more.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of, and maybe you you picked up on this, but like I kind of uh like to work in concepts.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really hard for me to be like, oh, like this ingredient is trending next year.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let me create a fragrance around that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just not my, that's not how I roll.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be inspired, I need to have like a concept for it, I need to like really like overanalyze the concept and and be able to communicate it through scent.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm exploring something that's a little bit more long term, but in the meantime, there is a short-term update, which is actually something that's launching next week.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a limited edition seasonal body oil, and it is lavender cookie is the scent.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's inspired by a trip I took to the south of France.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit aromatic and it's also a little bit edible.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: It has both like lavender notes and um lemon peel, pastry notes, so cookie and candy ginger.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's what I love about the format of body oil, A, it lends itself to self-care, right?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole, there's like the application of it is just it's very like you're taking care of your body, you're nourishing yourself, like, and so I really love that.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also kind of a less serious format than like an EDP, right?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where I can just kind of have fun with it.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm toying with the idea of having more like seasonal, limited edition runs.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um like bursts of inspiration.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we'll see how it goes next week.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're launching it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: So well, if anyone's listening, this is probably around the time that it's launching.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, this is really that's really cool.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I love that you're you're kind of going with the seasonal thing.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's really neat.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I like seeing that actually, because it's hard to find.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I you know, this especially for when we get into summer months, like everyone's always trying to do like a summer scent or like a body mist or something.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I always see these launches, you know, that come out.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, God, can we stop doing this over and over again?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's get something new, you know, rotating here.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something like really I find interesting about just having a limited run of something, and then like that's it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you know, like it's that's okay.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like with wine, right?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a certain vintage, like the this vintage, right?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Had you know, the the climate was X, Y, and Z.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so therefore it produced a wine that was blank.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And once the wine runs out, like that's it.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You'll never taste that vintage of the wine again.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something beautiful about that, and I think that that's okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, yes, of course, we want collections that will be around forever because if you find a scent that you love, you want to be able to repurchase it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that mixing that with like things that are maybe more fleeting and like don't have to be around forever, like that's life, you know, like that's okay too.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: You you took the words out of my I was like, yeah, because life is truly fleeting, you know?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's yeah, I love that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so, so cool.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it really adds to like the collectability of like fragrances, you know what I mean?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is really, I think a lot of um fragrance, people that love fragrance, you collect your perfumes, you know what I mean?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of lot in your collection, and you like to have options.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really cool way to expand your entire collection, I think, is to have pieces like that because then you're able to say, like, oh, this is that, you know, one memory that I have, and I can, you know, evoke it whenever I want, but it is limited.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it there's beauty in that.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, no, I I love it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you know, what you're doing is really, you know, it's really unique.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't know how else I can describe it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just I've fallen in love with your brand.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just very truly a breath of fresh air, you know, especially in the niche category, the luxury category of niche fragrances.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love discovering scents, you know, but it's very difficult um in the world of like big fragrance because big fragrance is like, I think it's just too much sometimes, you know, with what you experience.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you can't really put your finger on it.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are they trying to evoke for me here, you know?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my experience.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I go into like a retail store, for example, you know, and I spray something, I'm like, I don't know, you know, I can't figure out if I want to keep this or or what.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's always been my experience as a consumer.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think when I talk about niche fragrances with people, it's like, I don't know.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of feels more special, you know?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, this was wonderful.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I love chatting with you.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, likewise, it was such a pleasure, Ecta.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: This way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.