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Resilience Strategies to THRIVE in Uncertain Times · Business Roundtable

0:01
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, here we are Business round Table podcast
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Speaker 1: once again coming to you every week. My name is
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Speaker 1: David Carr, one of the hosts of the Business round
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Speaker 1: Table of Stewart Your Business, helping bring business owners team
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Speaker 1: leaders together to accomplish great things. And I've got an
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Speaker 1: amazing returning guest, Charlie Chen and welcome back, Charlie.
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Speaker 2: Thank you, David. It's always great to be back and
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Speaker 2: great to be on. Thank you.
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Speaker 1: Well, I'm super glad to be have you back because
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Speaker 1: rub before we recorded, we're talking and you know, you
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Speaker 1: offered to kind of switch table, switch the seats at
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Speaker 1: the table tonight and normally I'm asking the questions and
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Speaker 1: doing a little bit more prompting. You had a great
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Speaker 1: idea of this this language around leadership and what a
0:43
Speaker 1: framework that you use, and I thought it would be
0:45
Speaker 1: great to bring a different perspective and understanding to the podcast,
0:49
Speaker 1: as always would like to have different voices. So I'm
0:52
Speaker 1: gonna throw it to you so you can talk about
0:54
Speaker 1: the four languages of leadership and explain that and open
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Speaker 1: that up and yeah, let's get go and let's get
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Speaker 1: into it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, thank you for being open to having
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Speaker 3: the tables be turned. And so the idea that I
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Speaker 3: had proposed is talking about the four language four languages
1:14
Speaker 3: of leadership, which I always like to give credit where
1:17
Speaker 3: credit is due. I picked this up from a well
1:21
Speaker 3: known trainer in the direct sales world. So I follow
1:26
Speaker 3: different trainings across different industries. So there's a well known
1:32
Speaker 3: trainer called Eric Warri.
1:34
Speaker 2: He wrote he wrote a book called the Network.
1:37
Speaker 3: Uh he actually it says, go pro how to become
1:41
Speaker 3: a network marketing professional. So because oftentimes with that profession,
1:47
Speaker 3: the stigma is people that can't get a real job,
1:51
Speaker 3: they go and and try to sell their friends and
1:53
Speaker 3: family and that's that's why they're doing that.
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Speaker 2: So, uh, there's actually a professional way of doing it.
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Speaker 3: So he talks about the four languages of leadership, and
2:02
Speaker 3: so we'll just go one by one. So I'm actually
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Speaker 3: going to go in the order which I I just
2:10
Speaker 3: from what I've learned about it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, makes most.
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Speaker 2: Profound sense, even though it may not be.
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Speaker 3: Intuitive, it may be count intuitive, but it's actually what
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Speaker 3: how humans take. And so I would say the first
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Speaker 3: one out of the four, and I'll just rattle them
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Speaker 3: off is one is vision casting, second is storytelling, third
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Speaker 3: is assignments.
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Speaker 2: Fourth is challenge like challenging.
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Speaker 3: And so the reason I start with vision because as
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Speaker 3: the Bible proverbs, right, I can't quote the exact which
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Speaker 3: book it is, but where there's no vision, people perish, right,
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Speaker 3: So how just from your profession, David, and you'll career
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Speaker 3: within you know, helping teams develop culture and stewarding their business. Yeah,
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Speaker 3: how would you say that that leadership language of vision
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Speaker 3: casting has played a part in terms of you know,
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Speaker 3: where it ranks in your.
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Speaker 1: It's a great question because I work with business owners
3:23
Speaker 1: typically that are growth in a growth phase. And what
3:26
Speaker 1: happens is if you're a founder of the business or
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Speaker 1: early on in the business, you've caught onto that vision typically,
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Speaker 1: but what I found is they forget or not they
3:41
Speaker 1: they don't forget. But what happens is this new people
3:43
Speaker 1: come in, they don't know that, and they forget to
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Speaker 1: share that vision casting with them. What you're talking about.
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Speaker 2: So.
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Speaker 1: To your point, yeah, I looked at that Proverbs twenty
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Speaker 1: nine eighteen. Where there's no vision, that people perish. So
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Speaker 1: if what happens is your organization will not be able
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Speaker 1: to survive in the long haul if you don't have
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Speaker 1: that vision You can go quite a long ways with
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Speaker 1: the vision of the business owner, but it's got to
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Speaker 1: be transferred to others that are coming alongside. If you
4:14
Speaker 1: want to have that growth, you want to have that scaling,
4:18
Speaker 1: Otherwise it'll it'll live and die with you, right.
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Speaker 3: Right, right absolutely. And the reason I also start with
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Speaker 3: vision is there I've heard this, I can't exactly quote
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Speaker 3: who said it, but belief before action. So before you
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Speaker 3: ask for people to act on anything, you have to
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Speaker 3: build up their belief. And so the way you build
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Speaker 3: that belief is starting with casting the vision of the
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Speaker 3: possibilities of what does success looks like?
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Speaker 2: Right, like beginning with the men in mind, like what
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Speaker 2: I believe.
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Speaker 1: John C.
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Speaker 3: Maxwell talks about in the twenty one.
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Speaker 2: Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.
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Speaker 3: So would you you say that's been the case typically,
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Speaker 3: like in your in like your format and the way
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Speaker 3: that you help businesses with their culture. Would you say that, like,
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Speaker 3: identifying what success looks like first before planning out the
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Speaker 3: action steps is typically how you go about it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you have to have something that drives you.
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Speaker 1: You know, people want to be a part of something greater,
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Speaker 1: and if you don't, if you don't provide them that
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Speaker 1: there it's harder to get people to follow and to
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Speaker 1: come alongside, so you're gonna have a difficult time doing that.
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Speaker 1: In fact, you know, when I worked with a woman
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Speaker 1: that it started a company in one of her philosophies
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Speaker 1: was also this idea you give before you get. She
5:50
Speaker 1: saw the bigger pictures what it grew me into her
5:53
Speaker 1: that what could be and to me and I worked
5:58
Speaker 1: for a previous company that I wasn't it got fuzzy.
6:01
Speaker 1: I just to say, I don't think it was completely gone,
6:03
Speaker 1: but it wasn't clear either. So it was it was
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Speaker 1: easier for me to leave that company to go to
6:07
Speaker 1: the other company because I felt a clear vision of
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Speaker 1: what could be. She even invited me in the process
6:13
Speaker 1: of helping, like help this company. What does this company
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Speaker 1: look like as it goes forward? What are we are
6:20
Speaker 1: we striving to become? And so I think that is
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Speaker 1: a really important transition based when it's just you as
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Speaker 1: a sole entopreneur props a very small company that you're
6:34
Speaker 1: being very intentional about what that is. So you get
6:36
Speaker 1: people to come alongside, and then we'll figure out, like
6:38
Speaker 1: you said, the implementation, like how do we actually make
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Speaker 1: this happen. But if you try to figure out all
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Speaker 1: the way to make it happen, and I know from
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Speaker 1: your IT world, Charlie, if like, right, if somebody tries
6:49
Speaker 1: to do all the thing, get it all done, and
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Speaker 1: they bring it to market and they're like, well, that's
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Speaker 1: not what people were They weren't It wasn't quite the vision.
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Speaker 1: And I mean you're trying to get all done, You've
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Speaker 1: got to get other people to buy into the vision, right, Yeah,
7:02
Speaker 1: they don't buy any like, oh I got this perfect thing. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: but I didn't really I didn't. Really, I'm not sure.
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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not buying into the vision there of it? Right?
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Speaker 2: Right? No, one hundred percent.
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Speaker 3: Now, when you help the businesses that you work with
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Speaker 3: to develop their culture and and just bridge that gap
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Speaker 3: between the founder's vision and the people and and the
7:26
Speaker 3: staff and the team, what what are some effective ways
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Speaker 3: of helping translate their vision into ways in terms of
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Speaker 3: ways that they can convey them, uh, where it's loud
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Speaker 3: and clear, right, where.
7:41
Speaker 2: People the team that the company doesn't even blink.
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Speaker 3: Where they're super crystal clear on what the company stands for.
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Speaker 1: Right. Well, I think vision is tied to we've talked
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Speaker 1: about this in previous episodes, Charlie values, So you want
7:57
Speaker 1: you know, we're shooting for this and it's predicated upon this,
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Speaker 1: this underlying value. So what I would say, and I
8:02
Speaker 1: was just talking about the client about this today, is like,
8:04
Speaker 1: are you clear on the values? And if you have
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Speaker 1: too many, it's a little mudy. Even though they're all good.
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Speaker 1: I think it's important that you've reinforced this is the
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Speaker 1: value that supports the mission and the vision. And one
8:19
Speaker 1: way you could do that, for example, would be anytime
8:23
Speaker 1: you have a meeting, particularly you know internal meeting, a
8:29
Speaker 1: larger meeting where you're having a group come together and say,
8:33
Speaker 1: because just literally take a minute, like, look at a
8:36
Speaker 1: value and say what is this value? Oh? Teamwork? Why
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Speaker 1: do we have to work as a team because we're
8:41
Speaker 1: trying to accomplish this mission? Okay? And you look at those
8:46
Speaker 1: values and you state them and you reinforce them. And
8:50
Speaker 1: you've heard me say this before, Charlie, but it's like
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Speaker 1: I don't just tell my wife, I never once. It's
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Speaker 1: a repeated thing for sure, right, it's a reinforcing of
8:59
Speaker 1: marriage is and we have a greater vision for what
9:02
Speaker 1: we can be. And so it's like, what's the values,
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Speaker 1: what brings us back? What's the foundation you you have
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Speaker 1: to remind yourself of that, and and and as new
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Speaker 1: people come in, the further they are away from the
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Speaker 1: original founder or creator. It's it's it's requires even more
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Speaker 1: intention in my experience, how.
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Speaker 3: Many values would you say? It's too much to where
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Speaker 3: it gets muddled.
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Speaker 1: I like, I like ten. Around ten, I think, yeah,
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Speaker 1: if you get started getting twelve, thirteen, maybe get fifteen, twenty,
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Speaker 1: it's really hard to remember all of those exactly. What
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Speaker 1: happens is the value is also are similar. They're not,
9:44
Speaker 1: they're different, but they're similar. So what you want to
9:46
Speaker 1: do is it forces you to say, okay, if I
9:48
Speaker 1: can only pick ten or only pick e, what are
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Speaker 1: the ones that really mean the most. I was actually
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Speaker 1: just doing this too, and we'll probably get this later
9:57
Speaker 1: in assignments, but I was working on roles and responsibilities
10:01
Speaker 1: and we were going through key performance indicators or metrics,
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Speaker 1: and I said, we don't write everything down on somebody's role,
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Speaker 1: write down the most important things that we want them
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Speaker 1: to achieve. And so that's really I think the vision
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Speaker 1: is what's the most important things here that motivates that
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Speaker 1: reinforces the team. You keep those top of mind, that
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Speaker 1: those those parties, because what happens is you can get
10:28
Speaker 1: muddled and things can get sideways with your with your employees.
10:38
Speaker 1: And I remember I read the book Start with Why,
10:41
Speaker 1: which is one of my favorite books by Simon Sinek,
10:42
Speaker 1: and he was talking there's a story in there that
10:44
Speaker 1: stood out to me about this woman yelling at people
10:48
Speaker 1: getting on the airplane, like she was working for the
10:50
Speaker 1: airline and she's like yelling, and I'm getting them get
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Speaker 1: in line, do this, and because they're the value in
10:58
Speaker 1: her mind. I don't know if this is the company.
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Speaker 1: With her mind, the vision was we got to be
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Speaker 1: on time. We got to get people, you know, the
11:04
Speaker 1: play's got to be on time, which is not a
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Speaker 1: bad thing, but it shouldn't be at the expense of
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Speaker 1: belittling your customers. It's like, we're on time, but everybody
11:12
Speaker 1: feels like crap. You know, It's like that's probably not good.
11:16
Speaker 1: So I think people might be more forgiving if the
11:18
Speaker 1: EIR ponem was a little bit late, but yet they
11:19
Speaker 1: felt treated well and they understood things happen, you know,
11:23
Speaker 1: and how do we work together? But she was still
11:26
Speaker 1: she was in a threatened space. She's like, if I
11:27
Speaker 1: don't do this, I could lose my job. I know.
11:31
Speaker 1: So yeah, very cool.
11:33
Speaker 3: Now, just to cap off this vision leadership language, And
11:41
Speaker 3: how's the background noise?
11:42
Speaker 1: By the way, you get a little bit of like
11:43
Speaker 1: a ringing back there?
11:45
Speaker 2: Sorry about that. Yeah, there's there's something going on outside.
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Speaker 2: But the part where it says where.
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Speaker 3: There's no vision, people parish, like, what's the downside, Like,
11:57
Speaker 3: what's the risk?
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Speaker 2: Right, what's the threat to not having a clear vision?
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Speaker 1: Like?
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Speaker 2: What like what you talked about with it's buddled? What
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Speaker 2: is that people perishing? Look like?
12:08
Speaker 3: What what have you seen? Where it's it was just
12:11
Speaker 3: very unfortunate, right, a sad outcome that we're trying to avoid.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think I hate to say it. Sometimes
12:22
Speaker 1: I see it in government agencies where people feel like
12:26
Speaker 1: they're just like there, They don't really feel like they're
12:28
Speaker 1: contributing to a greater mission and a vision of what
12:32
Speaker 1: what it can be, and so then they abuse their position,
12:37
Speaker 1: possibly for power to make them excuse me, themselves feel
12:40
Speaker 1: better or more powerful if they stay there. If it's
12:44
Speaker 1: if it's a you know, a private company for example,
12:47
Speaker 1: you may have high turnover, so you can't keep people.
12:52
Speaker 1: I've noticed this particularly, you know those in the twenty somethings,
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Speaker 1: they're big on hey, what do you stand for? What
12:59
Speaker 1: do you actually trying to achieve here in the world.
13:02
Speaker 1: And if they're they're going to be quick to leave.
13:05
Speaker 1: And if you keep losing your workforce, it's very costly
13:09
Speaker 1: to bring on new people, to hire them and try
13:12
Speaker 1: to instill in them. So just think about look at
13:14
Speaker 1: your turnover. That's one thing I'm really passionate as organizational
13:17
Speaker 1: health is how do you keep that team intact? And
13:20
Speaker 1: the longer you can keep that team intact, you're going
13:22
Speaker 1: to be more profitable, more effective with a long haul
13:24
Speaker 1: generally speaking. So I would definitely look at that. And
13:30
Speaker 1: if you have leaders, you know that you've got to
13:37
Speaker 1: be you got to be careful too about the aligning
13:40
Speaker 1: yourself with leaders that really share your vision and want
13:42
Speaker 1: to have that. I've been in the companies too where
13:45
Speaker 1: the business owners brought in somebody and they didn't share
13:48
Speaker 1: that same philosophy. They had good technical skills perhaps to
13:52
Speaker 1: do certain work, but at the end of the day,
13:54
Speaker 1: they didn't share that vision. And what happens is you're
13:57
Speaker 1: going to be, you could have conflict. You're bringing in
14:00
Speaker 1: conflict within your company because now you have well, my
14:02
Speaker 1: vision is this way, my vision is this way, and
14:05
Speaker 1: you're basically splitting up your company. And that also happens too,
14:07
Speaker 1: where there's divisions and people break off and other things.
14:12
Speaker 1: And so if you don't, if you're not intentional about that,
14:16
Speaker 1: there's a whole host of problems that you can run into.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, and.
14:24
Speaker 3: The people not having buy in and just it's detrimental
14:31
Speaker 3: and it's costly. Like you said, it's way more costly
14:34
Speaker 3: to when you lose people that they have travel knowledge
14:38
Speaker 3: of how things are done, and just having to retrain
14:41
Speaker 3: that that constant turnover is way more costly than being
14:47
Speaker 3: able to build on people and have that lead towards
14:52
Speaker 3: the fulfillment and the materialization of the founders.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely awesome.
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Speaker 3: So the next one I wanted to touch on is
15:05
Speaker 3: the second language, which is storytelling. There's a phrase in
15:09
Speaker 3: sales it's facts tell, story sell. So why is storytelling
15:15
Speaker 3: a powerful language of leadership?
15:19
Speaker 1: Mmm? Wow, this is a really good one. And actually,
15:24
Speaker 1: when I've been trying to work on more, I think
15:29
Speaker 1: having a compelling story or narrative. People grab onto that,
15:36
Speaker 1: and now it has to come from authenticity. Here's the thing.
15:39
Speaker 1: I think it's really important. People can tell stories to
15:44
Speaker 1: grab your attention, and but if it's not coming from
15:47
Speaker 1: a truly authentic place, that could be bad. So what
15:51
Speaker 1: I'm about to do is one of the things I
15:54
Speaker 1: found when I became a coach full time was I
15:58
Speaker 1: wanted to essentially let my life be an open book,
16:00
Speaker 1: an open story. And there's different ways I found that
16:04
Speaker 1: you can do that. But most important, I think the
16:07
Speaker 1: thing is is leading from a place of authenticity in
16:11
Speaker 1: reality and not trying to sugarcoat or try to you know,
16:18
Speaker 1: massage it, because I think people see through that. And
16:25
Speaker 1: I think people where we love, we all love stories.
16:28
Speaker 1: That's what we like going to the movies, that's people
16:30
Speaker 1: like reading a book. There's different ways we consume, you know,
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Speaker 1: social media. I think it's just a way of reaching
16:36
Speaker 1: it's our humankind that we love to hear that the
16:39
Speaker 1: better we can get at storytelling, the better we can
16:43
Speaker 1: have deeper relationships.
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Speaker 2: Yea. And it's that authenticity, that relatability that.
16:55
Speaker 3: If you can have whoever you're leading, you're like, wow,
16:59
Speaker 3: that that.
17:01
Speaker 2: You're not like just some I know now right that
17:04
Speaker 2: I can't ever be like you.
17:06
Speaker 3: If that's how they feel, then you will never enlist
17:11
Speaker 3: the help that you need to fulfill your vision.
17:13
Speaker 2: Right now, if you can.
17:15
Speaker 3: Show people like your hero's journey, which is essentially the
17:20
Speaker 3: storyline that almost all, if not all, Disney movies are
17:25
Speaker 3: based on, is that hero's journey where there's main character
17:29
Speaker 3: goes through trials and tribulations and finds victories by overcoming
17:33
Speaker 3: that challenge. And so if there's no struggle, you take
17:37
Speaker 3: away the struggle, you take away the victory. So but
17:39
Speaker 3: if you can make yourself relatable and authentic, and therefore
17:44
Speaker 3: they feel like that they're you know, that what success
17:50
Speaker 3: looks like, or what success that they want to strive
17:54
Speaker 3: after is not a pie in the sky, and therefore
17:58
Speaker 3: that makes it possibility for them to actually to move
18:04
Speaker 3: toward that.
18:05
Speaker 2: Would you say that that would be the.
18:07
Speaker 1: Case, Yeah, I mean, I like, here, I'll give you
18:14
Speaker 1: an example of just that relatability. So I worked for
18:19
Speaker 1: the company called Ecor Consulting for years. I knew the business,
18:23
Speaker 1: the leader, but you know, we had one of the
18:25
Speaker 1: things I loved about stories was we had a retreat
18:28
Speaker 1: and I came to the company. I think the company
18:31
Speaker 1: had been around let's just say fifteen years something by
18:35
Speaker 1: the time I came there, and there was stories I
18:40
Speaker 1: had no clue about, like how the company got started,
18:44
Speaker 1: and the owner was talking about I started this in
18:45
Speaker 1: my garage, you know, he shared about like this journey
18:48
Speaker 1: of it. I'm like, Oh, I didn't realize or what
18:50
Speaker 1: this is where you were this, you had this issue,
18:52
Speaker 1: or you were this this project. And to me, it
18:56
Speaker 1: made me more interested in the company, more interested to
19:01
Speaker 1: know about it. Like I didn't know these stories. They
19:03
Speaker 1: knew about them, these visional owners, they've been around a
19:06
Speaker 1: long time and they think they forgot that other people
19:10
Speaker 1: didn't know this stuff. And so we literally have like
19:13
Speaker 1: a session on just kind of the history of the company.
19:18
Speaker 1: And so I would say this idea of storytelling is
19:22
Speaker 1: great for history and sharing the journey because a lot
19:26
Speaker 1: of people will think, well, you just were successful or
19:28
Speaker 1: you just got that this just happened, like it didn't
19:30
Speaker 1: just happen, and you understand all ups and downs, and
19:34
Speaker 1: to me, it's it's much more interesting. We just had
19:38
Speaker 1: the Olympics too, Charlie. So one of the thing I
19:40
Speaker 1: didn't watch a lot of it. But when I do
19:42
Speaker 1: watch the Olympics, what they do a lot of times
19:45
Speaker 1: is they'll give you a background story on the athlete.
19:48
Speaker 1: If you just watch the athlete, it's still amazing to
19:51
Speaker 1: watch them, but when you understand their background what took
19:54
Speaker 1: them to get there, are the things that's way more engaging.
19:57
Speaker 1: And so I would say, don't discount that value of
20:02
Speaker 1: the story in whatever aspect of the business you're in
20:07
Speaker 1: or the leading, because I think sometimes we just minimize that,
20:10
Speaker 1: especially if it's about ourselves. I would say, encourage you,
20:13
Speaker 1: encourage each person that's leading, embrace your stories because that's
20:18
Speaker 1: what made you. And yes, there probably are negative things
20:22
Speaker 1: there is what happened at the time, but how has
20:25
Speaker 1: that helped you to become the person you are today?
20:28
Speaker 1: And looking back with gratitude and appreciation the sense of yeah,
20:31
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have necessarily wanted to go through that, but
20:33
Speaker 1: this is where I helped me or I am at today.
20:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I agree on the.
20:43
Speaker 3: Just the appeal of hearing the story behind the athlete
20:48
Speaker 3: or whoever that we're following, that that we admire. It's
20:52
Speaker 3: it just makes the humanizes them, right because at the
20:57
Speaker 3: end of the day human beings were creatures of emotion,
21:01
Speaker 3: you know, as much as we'd like to believe where
21:03
Speaker 3: it creatures of love and reason. And so when we
21:06
Speaker 3: can identify that human to human connection, then it just
21:11
Speaker 3: makes it more meaningful.
21:12
Speaker 2: Mm hm to be a part of.
21:14
Speaker 3: And yes, yeah, absolutely, So the next language now that
21:19
Speaker 3: we've built up that belief, right, cast that vision, told
21:22
Speaker 3: that story so that it connects and and build up
21:26
Speaker 3: that belief level in our people and maybe even in ourselves.
21:31
Speaker 2: Right.
21:32
Speaker 3: So the assignment part is like there's a there's a
21:40
Speaker 3: phrase that I learned recently or concept the best time
21:44
Speaker 3: to ask for action or favor is when somebody expresses gratitude. Right,
21:49
Speaker 3: So when you can build up that belief that it's
21:53
Speaker 3: like where they're they're they're thankful, they're grateful to be
21:55
Speaker 3: a part of your.
21:57
Speaker 2: Cause, then that's when you assign shouldn't.
22:00
Speaker 3: And so in terms of the way you give assignments,
22:04
Speaker 3: I mean obviously, uh a vision without uh a plan.
22:11
Speaker 2: For execution is just a pot dream.
22:14
Speaker 3: So you're what, what are like some frames because obviously
22:18
Speaker 3: we've heard smart, we've heard smarter like in terms of assignments,
22:22
Speaker 3: things like that, what's what's a framework that you like
22:25
Speaker 3: to use, David when it comes to.
22:27
Speaker 2: You know, actionable items like assignments.
22:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean smart goals and key performance indicators or
22:35
Speaker 1: you know, things that what we're trying to achieve, what's measurable.
22:38
Speaker 1: I would say one of the things I found in assignments,
22:43
Speaker 1: particularly my my world of consulting, is there's usually a
22:47
Speaker 1: step missing. So what I what I like to do
22:49
Speaker 1: is when you're assigning something, you you look at the task,
22:55
Speaker 1: what is what is that? What's that person is it assigned?
22:58
Speaker 1: We've talked about five voices in the past two We
23:00
Speaker 1: look at how they process information, how they make decisions.
23:04
Speaker 1: We're looking about evaluating ideally, who's the best person to
23:07
Speaker 1: assign this too? If you have options, but if you
23:11
Speaker 1: you know, But oftentimes there's one of the ones I
23:16
Speaker 1: find that's missed the most is we talked about time bound,
23:21
Speaker 1: but like what how much time like to the level
23:25
Speaker 1: that the you know, a senior level person doing the
23:29
Speaker 1: assignment is going to get it done quicker than the
23:31
Speaker 1: same person at a lower level. So what is that
23:35
Speaker 1: when you're looking for assigning something, what's the item, what's
23:39
Speaker 1: the win? What does that look like? They don't even know.
23:42
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a mini vision casting, if you will.
23:44
Speaker 1: It's like, what does a win look like? Here, I
23:48
Speaker 1: means I get it done within X amount of time.
23:50
Speaker 1: I think this is what it looks like when I'm
23:52
Speaker 1: done the product or the service. It's like, this is
23:55
Speaker 1: what it looks like. What's the expectation as far as communication,
24:01
Speaker 1: checking back in, letting me you know my progress right,
24:06
Speaker 1: and so what Oftentimes what happens is when you're doing assignment,
24:11
Speaker 1: you well miss one of those things. You'll forget to say, well,
24:16
Speaker 1: this is exactly what I'm looking for. This is what
24:18
Speaker 1: the win looks like. They'll say, just get this deck
24:20
Speaker 1: because they forget, oh, this person hasn't done this, or
24:22
Speaker 1: they haven't done it a lot, or they'll say, well
24:24
Speaker 1: maybe they'll tell them that, but they didn't tell them
24:26
Speaker 1: like how much time it needs to be they are
24:28
Speaker 1: allocated to do that task. And so then they either
24:33
Speaker 1: spend too much or usually I find it's doing too much,
24:36
Speaker 1: not too little. They're like, just keep spending time on it,
24:38
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, I wasn't expecting that that much time.
24:41
Speaker 1: So knowing exactly what it is what they want, what
24:44
Speaker 1: is the what's the win and how much time it's
24:46
Speaker 1: going to get them. But then if you can back
24:48
Speaker 1: up even further and understand how this person works, that
24:55
Speaker 1: will help you be more successful in getting that assignment completed.
24:59
Speaker 1: We've talked about the five voices again. That's what else
25:01
Speaker 1: with teams work together on and I'm really passionate about
25:05
Speaker 1: because people process assignments in different ways, and they also
25:13
Speaker 1: have to know where does this fit in the world
25:16
Speaker 1: with everything else I've got going on. You know, we've
25:19
Speaker 1: talked about like that urgent important, the Einstein square, urgent important,
25:23
Speaker 1: not urgent, not important, not and so forth, and so
25:27
Speaker 1: write the quadry. They have to know where does this
25:29
Speaker 1: fit with everything else as well, because right you may
25:32
Speaker 1: have an assignment but ineviative least some other assignment or
25:35
Speaker 1: something else is going to come up or a problem
25:37
Speaker 1: of rope block. In fact, I even just posted on
25:39
Speaker 1: my LinkedIn today a little tool that I provide folks
25:42
Speaker 1: in helping in that area their their daily or weekly
25:46
Speaker 1: action plan. So those are just some things that come
25:49
Speaker 1: to mind.
25:49
Speaker 2: Charlie, awesome, Thank you, David.
25:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, the thing I also wanted to touch on, that's,
25:58
Speaker 3: you know, when you said about based on people, how
26:03
Speaker 3: they work, how they take the language there, what language
26:08
Speaker 3: that they lead out with, uh, like a pitball that
26:13
Speaker 3: I personally mm hmm deal with that. That have a
26:18
Speaker 3: challenge with is getting too much into the weeds of
26:22
Speaker 3: telling people what to do rather than letting them know
26:26
Speaker 3: the objective and the key results that like you like
26:29
Speaker 3: what you said, KP I right, keep from so like
26:32
Speaker 3: actual and actual giving them letting them know what needs
26:36
Speaker 3: to be done and if there's there are things that
26:39
Speaker 3: need to be done a specific way, then communicate that.
26:42
Speaker 3: But then also letting go of not being too attached
26:47
Speaker 3: to you know, to to micromanagement, because then that restricts creativity,
26:53
Speaker 3: It restricts the possibility of them bringing maybe a more
26:56
Speaker 3: efficient way of doing that same task. So if you
27:00
Speaker 3: let them know, this is what needs to be done,
27:03
Speaker 3: this is how I currently do it. If you find,
27:05
Speaker 3: if you know, more efficient ways of doing it, go
27:08
Speaker 3: ahead and do that, let me know you or or
27:11
Speaker 3: let me know and and and you know, obviously, if
27:13
Speaker 3: it doesn't uh, it doesn't compromise integrity of the task
27:18
Speaker 3: that needs to be accomplished, then yeah, let's adopt to that.
27:21
Speaker 3: Let's let's so that that's the whole point of bringing
27:24
Speaker 3: on a team that's that's at what they do. Because
27:26
Speaker 3: if you are the best person at every area that
27:31
Speaker 3: that you need in your business, then you're really in
27:33
Speaker 3: trouble because you really just basically hired a bunch of
27:37
Speaker 3: order takers. You know, a business is run by a
27:41
Speaker 3: team of a players that you want to be the
27:45
Speaker 3: dumbest person at that table, right, So you know that's
27:47
Speaker 3: what Robert Kiyosaki talks about in the bridge that board
27:50
Speaker 3: that right, it's the power team.
27:52
Speaker 2: So you don't have a business unless you have.
27:55
Speaker 3: People that are really good at what they do and
27:58
Speaker 3: in their respective seats on the bus.
28:00
Speaker 1: Right.
28:00
Speaker 2: So, uh, would you say that that's.
28:03
Speaker 3: A common pitfall that other businesses that you've worked with, Uh,
28:08
Speaker 3: kind of gets sucked into.
28:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we we assigned. Remember, like you said, Charlie,
28:14
Speaker 1: we assign or show up naturally, Like you said, you've
28:18
Speaker 1: made it into the weeds and you realize, oh, that's
28:20
Speaker 1: not the best that's not the best way for me
28:22
Speaker 1: to be. That's the way I'm showing up. And then
28:24
Speaker 1: what you might be doing is you're reinforcing that for
28:26
Speaker 1: that that person, then they're gonna get the weeds with
28:28
Speaker 1: the other person that they're signing, well, that Charlie gets
28:30
Speaker 1: in the wads with me, I'm gonna get the weeds
28:31
Speaker 1: with them because that's what I see. So it's like
28:33
Speaker 1: cascading challenges there. So it's important to understand, like you said, no,
28:38
Speaker 1: and this is important too when you're empowering yourself, like
28:40
Speaker 1: you said Charlie, of like, as you're talking to me,
28:43
Speaker 1: you're like you could even empower them and say, look,
28:45
Speaker 1: I have a tendency in the weeds here, and I'm
28:47
Speaker 1: going to empower you to say I've got enough information, Charlie,
28:50
Speaker 1: I can do this. Can can you back off? And
28:53
Speaker 1: you're like, yes, I can, and and they're not feeling
28:56
Speaker 1: threatened by telling you that, right because you've you've you've
28:58
Speaker 1: created an environment experience. They said, if we're all we
29:01
Speaker 1: if we all know our positions. I like to use
29:04
Speaker 1: a football or soccer as in an analogy, because there's
29:07
Speaker 1: a lot of positions, then we can pass the ball,
29:09
Speaker 1: we can shoot, we can score, we can all win.
29:12
Speaker 1: But now we're all doing different roles though it's not
29:14
Speaker 1: all the same. We're not all in the same position.
29:17
Speaker 1: So don't try to be the same position. Do your
29:20
Speaker 1: position what you do well, and and let the other
29:24
Speaker 1: person do what they do best, right, and then get
29:27
Speaker 1: out of the way.
29:27
Speaker 3: That's what I go, pick up their dry cleaning, right,
29:33
Speaker 3: stay out of the way.
29:35
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I mean, let them do what they
29:37
Speaker 1: do best, right, I mean, don't try to like I'm
29:40
Speaker 1: like you, Charlie too. Sometimes I do that even at home.
29:42
Speaker 1: I get too specific. I'm trying to direct some things
29:44
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know what, let me get out
29:46
Speaker 1: of the way, let them do what they do best,
29:49
Speaker 1: and if there's a problem, we would should empower them.
29:53
Speaker 1: That's one thing. I look at what you're you. It's
29:55
Speaker 1: not if you're going to run into a problem or
29:57
Speaker 1: a roadblock. So when you come into a roadblock with
30:00
Speaker 1: your assignment, what what are you going to do? Are
30:02
Speaker 1: you going to Some people will ignore it, Some people
30:05
Speaker 1: will try to wait till the last minute. Some people
30:11
Speaker 1: will just then or they'll just focus on that roadblock. Meanwhile,
30:16
Speaker 1: they could have been doing a lot of other things
30:18
Speaker 1: and they get distracted. So there's different ways we got
30:19
Speaker 1: to help them. So they was like, when you when
30:22
Speaker 1: you hit the roadblock, when you hit the challenge, who
30:25
Speaker 1: are you going to lean onto who are you going
30:26
Speaker 1: to reach out to to make sure that this assignment
30:29
Speaker 1: gets done right? So just thinking about that and providing
30:38
Speaker 1: is a balance. You know, we just talked about this
30:40
Speaker 1: recently on the other podcasts, the support challenge, right, We
30:43
Speaker 1: just when we were talking about that support challenge matrix
30:46
Speaker 1: of you know, we're trying to put high support and
30:50
Speaker 1: high challenge in and that's one of the things we're
30:52
Speaker 1: looking at as leaders. We need both and sometimes we
30:57
Speaker 1: get an assignments. In particular, I find and that we
31:00
Speaker 1: do one or the other, and we want to do
31:03
Speaker 1: both to get them in that liberated place. Yeah, I
31:09
Speaker 1: think it leads into your other topic.
31:12
Speaker 2: No, no, that's the last one. Yeah, right. The last
31:15
Speaker 2: language of.
31:16
Speaker 3: Leadership, and we're coming to a close is challenge, challenging
31:20
Speaker 3: people to step up and do maybe even more than
31:24
Speaker 3: what they believes they are capable of right now.
31:27
Speaker 2: So why is that an important language of leadership?
31:31
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like we were just talking about, the
31:34
Speaker 1: sport is one thing, but challenge means we want them
31:37
Speaker 1: to stretch themselves. I think we start with support and
31:41
Speaker 1: then we have to again similar division, right or what
31:46
Speaker 1: could we be? And so I find challenge. Meaning this
31:52
Speaker 1: is oftentimes when people have a problem, right, they look,
31:56
Speaker 1: if you're the supervisor leader, they'll just I got a problem, Charlie,
32:02
Speaker 1: Like okay, and what are we going to do about
32:05
Speaker 1: the I don't know, we got a problem. Like you
32:07
Speaker 1: challenge them and say, okay, well, yes we have a problem.
32:11
Speaker 1: What have you come up with? What have you thought?
32:13
Speaker 1: It may be completely wrong, but at least give me
32:16
Speaker 1: something to solve this this challenge. In innovative growth, you know,
32:23
Speaker 1: oftentimes we find we're trying to do these solutions. And
32:26
Speaker 1: I know you know this from the IT world, Charlie.
32:28
Speaker 1: You try something, You're like, yeah, that didn't work, but
32:31
Speaker 1: but it didn't work, but that seeded another way of
32:34
Speaker 1: doing some things that we didn't even envision before, you know,
32:39
Speaker 1: I mean, you hear about Apple's as innovators, right, they're innovators.
32:45
Speaker 1: They they saw a problem or challenge with music streaming music.
32:50
Speaker 1: They're like, well, how are we going to figure that?
32:52
Speaker 1: I don't know yet? How are we gonna do?
32:53
Speaker 2: Well?
32:53
Speaker 1: They end up creating this whole platform and iPod all
32:56
Speaker 1: these things, right, so they One thing I really liked
33:00
Speaker 1: about a funny story about that about Apple particularly I
33:04
Speaker 1: think deep Jobs wanted the people moving around and talking
33:08
Speaker 1: with each other intentionally because they wanted to have them
33:12
Speaker 1: challenging each other. And he said, I can't remember if
33:15
Speaker 1: it was him or not, but there was like attributed
33:18
Speaker 1: like I want to see a failure rate, meaning if
33:20
Speaker 1: you're not failing, I mean you're not trying hard enough.
33:23
Speaker 1: If you can succeed at everything, then you've you've aimed
33:28
Speaker 1: way too low. And so when you look at we
33:31
Speaker 1: were talking earlier about kind of goals or assignments, there's
33:36
Speaker 1: a different levels, if you will. And when I do
33:39
Speaker 1: my own personal planning, I do what I call this
33:42
Speaker 1: freedom map or a possible game, where I'm trying to
33:44
Speaker 1: stretch myself from what's realistic to what's radical to really
33:48
Speaker 1: what's impossible, kind of a stair step approach, and it's
33:54
Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable because people don't like to lose or mess
33:59
Speaker 1: up or like they let down in reality. If they
34:02
Speaker 1: if they switch it around and they think, actually I'm
34:04
Speaker 1: winning when I can learn from this right, yeah and
34:09
Speaker 1: apply it.
34:11
Speaker 2: No, I like the challenge.
34:13
Speaker 3: Like that's actually one of the policies internally is uh,
34:17
Speaker 3: we have a list called never an Always list. Yeah,
34:21
Speaker 3: uh never never just say no or I don't know.
34:26
Speaker 3: Always come with your solutions. If you ask a question,
34:30
Speaker 3: ask the question, come up with what you've tried or
34:34
Speaker 3: what you what you think.
34:36
Speaker 2: Is the answer, and then we can have a discussion.
34:39
Speaker 3: Don't come Yeah, come with a problem without thinking about
34:43
Speaker 3: what you're going to do about it.
34:45
Speaker 1: I like that idea, you know what you as you
34:47
Speaker 1: said that made me think of a one platform I
34:50
Speaker 1: like to I support it. One was called Kickstarter and
34:54
Speaker 1: they have what they called stretch goals in there. And
34:57
Speaker 1: it's actually fun because you say, okay, hey, if we
35:00
Speaker 1: raise this amount of money, we could do this. But
35:02
Speaker 1: if we do this amount of money, we could do this.
35:04
Speaker 1: And if we do this amount of we can do this.
35:06
Speaker 1: So when you get them excited about hey, if we
35:08
Speaker 1: could stretch, if we could achieve this, think about what
35:11
Speaker 1: we could actually do, the impact that we could do
35:13
Speaker 1: instead of saying, well, we could just check the box.
35:15
Speaker 1: And you know, if somebody comes to you and if anyway,
35:18
Speaker 1: if you guys comes to you and I've had to
35:19
Speaker 1: do like sales goals, he say, well, we're gonna do
35:22
Speaker 1: the sales the same as we did last year, or
35:24
Speaker 1: or a little less or one percent. I'm like, Okay,
35:27
Speaker 1: I know there's a point of being realistic, but also
35:29
Speaker 1: like what could we stretch for what would be gus
35:32
Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable, what would be a lot uncomfortable? You know,
35:36
Speaker 1: and maybe test your your comfort level. But I think
35:40
Speaker 1: if things that are that you call it b had goals, big,
35:43
Speaker 1: harriett dacious goals. Right. I'm not saying everything needs to
35:47
Speaker 1: be that way, but you should have things that build
35:49
Speaker 1: because then you can have you can break them down
35:51
Speaker 1: into smaller goals and smaller challenges, so then you can
35:54
Speaker 1: actually win. And so another one is a big one
36:00
Speaker 1: is like if you wanted to pay off a big debt. Right,
36:03
Speaker 1: it's a huge debt, but it's like and you've got
36:05
Speaker 1: credit cards, car loan, whatever, all these things. Right when
36:08
Speaker 1: you start off for the smallest challenges, could I just
36:10
Speaker 1: even pay off my credit card this month? Okay, that's challenge?
36:14
Speaker 1: Then snowball, right, So then it's like you build momentum,
36:20
Speaker 1: look at your wins. That's the other thing I would
36:22
Speaker 1: say is we often look at what we lose. I
36:25
Speaker 1: use another app called the Warrior App, and it's a
36:28
Speaker 1: production tool that I show and so what happens is
36:31
Speaker 1: we tend to look at the things we missed more
36:34
Speaker 1: than the things we want. But I think over the
36:36
Speaker 1: long haul, if we put ourselves in this place of challenge,
36:40
Speaker 1: and you're going to achieve more in the long haul,
36:45
Speaker 1: even if you're having misses because the intensity that you're
36:48
Speaker 1: looking at the longer term goals versus just hitting the
36:50
Speaker 1: same thing just a little bit. In fact, there's a
36:53
Speaker 1: book I'm reading. You know, ten X is better than
36:55
Speaker 1: two X, same kind of concept, right.
36:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, And then if you don't challenge yourself
37:02
Speaker 3: really and you don't challenge yourself and your team, uh, the.
37:07
Speaker 2: Market will challenge you and hopefully out of business.
37:10
Speaker 3: That's why Jeff Bezos actually has a department where they're
37:14
Speaker 3: tasked with thinking of ways to put Amazon out of
37:17
Speaker 3: business so that they can come up with the solutions
37:20
Speaker 3: before a competitor does. And then they're they're they're out
37:24
Speaker 3: of business. So I think about how yeah giants, right,
37:28
Speaker 3: Blockbuster had the opportunity to buy out Netflix and the
37:31
Speaker 3: client and look where they're at now, you know, so.
37:34
Speaker 2: So they got busted. So but yeah, that's that was
37:38
Speaker 2: a fun topic.
37:39
Speaker 1: And yeah, and.
37:41
Speaker 3: I think the next, UH, the future session that would
37:44
Speaker 3: dovetail really well is actually leveraging the language for languages
37:50
Speaker 3: of leadership.
37:52
Speaker 2: To address.
37:56
Speaker 3: Like different things that we uncovered using the swap analysis.
38:02
Speaker 3: So I know some people haven't heard of that, but
38:04
Speaker 3: what can you tell us a little bit?
38:06
Speaker 1: What what is something like fly swatting or your your
38:09
Speaker 1: your police swat like we were talking about earlier, right ye,
38:13
Speaker 1: s w O T strength, weaknesses, opportunities and threats and
38:21
Speaker 1: so No, I think it's good. I think that it's
38:23
Speaker 1: a great planning tool as well. I think I typically
38:27
Speaker 1: like to do that with clients. It's a good time
38:28
Speaker 1: of year. Actually we were going towards the end of
38:29
Speaker 1: the year here. I mean, it's hard to believe we're
38:31
Speaker 1: in August, but as we're recording this right now. But
38:37
Speaker 1: it's a really good process to look at, uh. And
38:41
Speaker 1: it could go back to your can you go back
38:43
Speaker 1: to vision canting like you were saying, Charlie, like, what
38:45
Speaker 1: is the vision? What are our strengths in achieving that vision?
38:48
Speaker 1: What are the weaknesses in achieving that vision? What are
38:50
Speaker 1: the opportunities we have of me in there? What are
38:52
Speaker 1: the threats there? And so I think it's a great framework,
38:57
Speaker 1: very common especially in strategic planning and looking at that
38:59
Speaker 1: and so so if you haven't looked at that recently,
39:02
Speaker 1: I think it'd be a great one and Charlie to
39:05
Speaker 1: discuss on the podcast.
39:08
Speaker 3: Absolutely looking forward to touching based on that one on
39:12
Speaker 3: a future episode. So I'm gonna turn back to you, David.
39:15
Speaker 3: That was all I had for today. Yeah, that's great
39:18
Speaker 3: for the engaging conversation.
39:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely, no, thanks Charlie for just bringing another framework of
39:24
Speaker 1: the four languages of leadership. Where we talked about storytelling,
39:28
Speaker 1: we talked about vision, casting, assignments, challenge, and so if
39:34
Speaker 1: you haven't heard those before, I haven't heard it exactly
39:36
Speaker 1: in that way. So I liked really just hearing a
39:38
Speaker 1: different way of bringing another spin on it, Charlie and
39:41
Speaker 1: getting the opportunity to explore them with you. If you
39:44
Speaker 1: really like this podcast, you're listening here. We appreciate having
39:48
Speaker 1: you share this podcast with others. You can actually watch
39:53
Speaker 1: us on YouTube. It's also streamed on all your favorite
39:55
Speaker 1: podcast platforms, so you can find us on Apple, Spreak,
40:00
Speaker 1: or whatever your favorite platform is. We're there. We love
40:03
Speaker 1: to have a review. A five star review from you
40:05
Speaker 1: would be much appreciated. If you're interested in joining us
40:09
Speaker 1: on the podcast, you can reach out to me. I've
40:12
Speaker 1: got a number of guests that have inquired about getting
40:14
Speaker 1: on here, so we're excited that we're reaching more great
40:18
Speaker 1: talented business owners, entrepreneurs, leaders out there that are willing
40:23
Speaker 1: to come and share their knowledge with you, our listeners.
40:27
Speaker 1: And again I just want to say thank you Charlie
40:30
Speaker 1: for leading this discussion and being back here on the
40:32
Speaker 1: Business Around Table podcast. And until next time, take care,
40:35
Speaker 1: be well, everybody, take care Bye.
40:37
Speaker 2: I guess by