Latest / Marcus Aurelius: Rome's Philosopher King — Fexingo History / Marcus Aurelius and the Stoic's Lost Scrolls from Herculaneum
Transcript
- Lucas: So, Luna, we've talked a lot about Marcus Aurelius's life — his wars, his family, his religion. But there's one thing that haunts me, something we haven't touched on: what if we had more of his actual writings? Not just the Meditations, but his letters, his drafts, his personal notes. Luna: Are there lost works of his that we know about? Lucas: Absolutely. For one, we know he corresponded heavily with his rhetoric tutor Fronto. We actually have some of those letters — discovered in the 19th century — but they're fragmentary. And then there's the whole question of the Meditations themselves. The manuscript tradition is shaky: we basically rely on a single 10th-century copy and a few later ones. But what if there were earlier copies, maybe even autographs, that perished in a fire or a volcano? Luna: You're thinking of Herculaneum. Lucas: Exactly. The Villa of the Papyri in Herculaneum, buried by Vesuvius in 79 AD — that's before Marcus was even born. But the library there was primarily Epicurean, belonging to the philosopher Philodemus of Gadara. However, the villa might have been owned by Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus, a patron of Philodemus. And later, the imperial family may have added to it. We know Marcus was deeply interested in philosophy, and he might have sent works there for copying or storage. Luna: So there could be scrolls from Marcus's own hand buried under all that ash? Lucas: It's not impossible. The villa hasn't been fully excavated. In fact, most of the papyri we have came from a single room, and there are probably more rooms still underground. The problem is that the papyri are carbonized — they look like lumps of charcoal. For centuries, attempts to unroll them destroyed them. But now, with multispectral imaging and AI, we can read them without physically unrolling. The Vesuvius Challenge has already succeeded in reading passages from Philodemus — imagine if they find a scroll with Marcus's handwriting. Luna: What would we hope to find? Lucas: Maybe drafts of the Meditations, or letters to his Stoic teachers. We know Marcus studied under Junius Rusticus, who gave him a copy of Epictetus's Discourses. Rusticus might have had his own library. Or perhaps Marcus's correspondence with his co-emperor Lucius Verus — we have none of that. Verus died in 169, and Marcus mourned him deeply. A letter from that period could reveal a side of Marcus we've never seen. Luna: That would be incredible. But we're not sure if any scrolls from the imperial family are actually there, right? Lucas: Right. It's speculation. But the Villa of the Papyri is the only classical library we have in situ. Any other major library — like the one in Alexandria — was lost. So even if we find more Epicurean works, that's huge. But the dream of finding a lost Stoic text, maybe something by Chrysippus or Epictetus, or even Marcus himself, keeps scholars excavating. Luna: And there's a real effort to get to the lower levels? Lucas: Yes, but it's complicated. Herculaneum is built over by the modern town of Ercolano. The Villa extends under streets and buildings. There's been talk of new digs, but it's expensive and politically delicate. Meanwhile, the unrolled scrolls keep giving us surprises. In 2023, the Vesuvius Challenge used AI to read a scroll about pleasure — Epicurean philosophy. The technology is advancing fast. If we can ever get to the unexcavated part, who knows? Luna: It's amazing that we're still learning from those scrolls almost two thousand years later. Lucas: It really is. And it ties into something we talk about a lot on this show: how fragile history is. The same volcano that preserved those scrolls also destroyed countless others. For every library that survived, a thousand were burned, rotted, or recycled. We're lucky to have what we have. Luna: Speaking of supporting the work that keeps history alive — and I know this is a little off-topic, but it's connected — if you've been enjoying these deep dives into the ancient world, you might want to consider helping the show continue. We don't run ads, and listener support is what makes that possible. Lucas: Yeah, it's a small thing, but it adds up. If you'd like to chip in, you can find us at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. No pressure, just if the show brings you value. Luna: And now back to those lost scrolls — because there's another angle I want to hear about. Was there a specific Stoic text that Marcus mentions that we've lost? Lucas: Great question. In the Meditations, Marcus frequently quotes or paraphrases earlier Stoics. One he cites is Chrysippus, but almost all of Chrysippus's works are lost. We have fragments preserved in later authors. Another is Epictetus, whose Discourses we have only partially. Marcus's own teacher Rusticus gave him a copy, but that manuscript is gone. Imagine if a scroll from Rusticus's own hand turned up in Herculaneum — that would be a goldmine. Luna: So the search isn't just for Marcus's words, but for the sources he read. Lucas: Exactly. The Stoic library is almost entirely lost. We have Seneca, Epictetus, and Marcus — that's it, for the most part. The early Stoics like Zeno, Cleanthes, and Chrysippus survive only in quotes. The discovery of even one complete work by Chrysippus would revolutionize our understanding of Stoic philosophy. Luna: How likely is it that something like that could be in Herculaneum? Lucas: It's possible. The villa's owner, Piso, was a patron of Philodemus, who was Epicurean. But the library also included works by other schools. Philodemus himself wrote polemics against Stoics, so he likely had their texts to critique. And later owners might have added more. The scrolls we've read so far are mostly Epicurean, but that could be because the room we've excavated was their library. Other rooms might contain different collections. Luna: I remember hearing that the scrolls are incredibly fragile — some are still unopened because the technology wasn't good enough. Lucas: Precisely. For centuries, the only way to read them was to try to unroll them, which often destroyed them. Many scrolls were literally cut open and scraped to read the text. Only about 200 out of an estimated 1,800 papyri have been fully unrolled. The rest remain in their carbonized state, waiting for techniques like X-ray phase-contrast tomography or ai assisted virtual unrolling. The Vesuvius Challenge has shown it's possible. Luna: So we're at a tipping point — the technology is here, but we need access to more scrolls. Lucas: Right. And there's also the question of the so-called 'third floor' of the villa. In the 1990s, archaeologists found evidence of a lower level that might contain more papyri. But it's under groundwater and modern construction. Some scholars argue that it's not worth the cost and risk. Others say it's the only way to truly understand what the library contained. Luna: Is there any chance that Marcus's own Meditations were copied and stored there? He died in 180, so it's possible a copy could have been made after his death. Lucas: Absolutely. The Meditations were not meant for publication — they were personal notes. But after Marcus's death, his family or followers might have preserved them. If a copy found its way to Herculaneum before the eruption — well, we know the villa was still occupied in 79 AD, because the eruption buried it. So if a copy existed by then, it could be there. But we have no proof. Luna: It's the kind of thing that makes you wish for a time machine. Lucas: Or just a really good excavation. But even without new scrolls, we're learning more from the ones we have. In 2024, researchers using AI were able to detect ink on a scroll that had been thought blank. They found lines from a poem about the philosopher Empedocles. So the technology is getting better at extracting text from even the most damaged papyri. Luna: So there's hope that some of those 1,600 unopened scrolls might eventually be read. Lucas: Definitely. And there's also the possibility of scanning the rolled-up scrolls without unrolling them. That's the holy grail — to read a scroll while it's still rolled. We're not there yet, but the progress is remarkable. In the next decade, we might see a deluge of new texts from Herculaneum. Luna: Let's hope one of them is by Marcus himself. Lucas: That would be the find of the millennium. But even if not, any new Stoic text would be a treasure. And it would help us understand the philosophical world that shaped Marcus — the ideas he wrestled with, the debates he had. For now, we can only imagine, but it's a tantalizing possibility. Luna: Thanks, Lucas. I think we've given our listeners plenty to think about — and maybe a reason to root for the Vesuvius Challenge team. Lucas: Absolutely. And if you want to follow the latest discoveries, we'll link to the Herculaneum Society's updates in the show notes. Until next time, keep questioning.