Latest / Half the Picture / #24 - ZAK FENNING & TONY COOK

Transcript

#24 - ZAK FENNING & TONY COOK · Half the Picture

• 0:00
  in the worst situations. If you're with your mate, you're still going to find things fun.
• 0:04
  And that's what I was hoping that me and Johnny could translate into R1 as well.
• 0:08
  We'd already been at Degrees non-swimpool settings and Johnny had said,
• 0:11
  oh, Tony, I think I'm going to wear a top to basically make me feel more confident.
• 0:14
  We got the Huggiest Top Off ad abs. Someone put a vest on this man. This is ridiculous now.
• 0:18
  I'm in my head seeing the edit and saying that clip goes here, that one goes there,
• 0:22
  don't need that bit. When I think, okay, yeah, this one's perfect. That's when Tony will improv
• 0:27
  and I'll go, well, I've been that one. That's done. We're in.
• 0:31
  I accept producer Murray. He just turned around and I brought this wig with me.
• 0:34
  Don't wait till I get me rid of the wig though. But annoyingly, I did come out wearing a wig,
• 0:38
  looked in the mirror and thought that does actually look quite good.
• 0:41
  Quickly on the phone to a man in Turkey, see what we can fix.
• 0:44
  Film is definitely harder to get into without some kind of financial backing.
• 0:48
  There is a big stigma against working with us actors. From my generation coming up, I add it.
• 0:52
  So you think if I'm getting it now, how bad would someone like Gary Albanyl
• 0:56
  and they would have had it so much worse, but they just kept going on.
• 1:07
  Hey everyone, I'm Billy and welcome back to Half the Picture. Today, we have our third guest
• 1:12
  duo for you, director Zach Fening and at Tony Cook, the guys behind the new British crime thriller
• 1:17
  at Gangsta's Life. A Gangsta's Life is a really interesting movie, a quirky in-detake on the
• 1:21
  classic British Gangsta flick. Imagine sexy beast as an offbeat buddy comedy. It's funny,
• 1:26
  twisty and bloody and it was great fun chatting to Zach and Tony about it. By the way,
• 1:30
  remember to like and subscribe to the podcast as it really helps us get more amazing guests
• 1:34
  on the show. So without further ado, let's roll on my conversation with Zach Fening and Tony Cook.
• 1:40
  Enjoy.
• 1:41
  Hey guys, welcome to Half the Picture. How are you both doing?
• 1:44
  Really good. Thank you. How are you doing, Billy?
• 1:46
  I'm doing very well. As I said before, we start recording. I've seen Gangsta's
• 1:49
  Life, your new movie. I really enjoyed it. And for a kick off, my first question I wanted to ask
• 1:54
  was, so Tony, you're the star, Zach, you're the director. And the movie feels like quite a sort of
• 2:00
  labor of love for the pair of you. I mean, you both produced it. I guess I wanted to ask like,
• 2:03
  how personal is the movie to the pair of you as I say the star and the director?
• 2:08
  I think for both of us, it was quite a personal and a big thing because it was our first movie
• 2:13
  together. So it was a lot of time and effort going into it, not just on screen, but everything
• 2:18
  that happens off screen. I think we were joined at the hip for two years and still are. I can't
• 2:22
  get rid of him. I remember shooting one of the last scenes in the film, not wanting it to end.
• 2:27
  And I just kept looking at Tony going, have one more take. Have one more take.
• 2:31
  Are you saying you didn't want to get rid of me? Is that what you're saying?
• 2:33
  No, generally no. Good because this has been recorded. This is evidence.
• 2:39
  So it's kind of like a Elijah Wood at the end is last day at the end of Lord of the Rings.
• 2:42
  Peter Jackson just didn't want him. You just, what you know, didn't want to say, check
• 2:45
  the gate. Let's just keep it going. Don't want him to leave. Same kind of vibe.
• 2:49
  Exactly that. Exactly. You have so much fun on set and with each other that you just,
• 2:53
  you do not want to stop. And that's why we're always looking at doing the next one.
• 2:57
  And for you, Tony, was it the same kind of thing?
• 2:59
  I couldn't wait for it to end. It was, it was amazing because going from obviously the idea
• 3:07
  and then quickly going, all right, we're going to make something happen, just keeping that momentum.
• 3:11
  And we were 100% just glued at the hip as he said, we still are now, but not literally.
• 3:17
  We are in different rooms in a minute. Well, the movie, I mean, watching it back,
• 3:21
  it's interesting because the movie is such a mix of tones. The opening scene, you know,
• 3:25
  when you start watching it, you kind of feel like this because this is going in the direction
• 3:28
  of your classic sort of gritty British gangster film, you know, you think of films by Guy Richie and
• 3:32
  sexy beast. There's a lot of sort of violence. And you know, you have the sort of east end
• 3:36
  kind of language and dialect in there, you know, so you feel like the movie is one thing.
• 3:40
  And then actually as you watch it, something that's proud of me about the movie is that it's
• 3:42
  sort of diverts into these different sort of tonal registers. So you've got this sort of interesting
• 3:47
  sort of, as I say, classic sort of British East End gritty crime material in there. But then you
• 3:53
  also have this sort of quite quirky sort of buddy comedy element to it as well. But there's
• 3:57
  stuff between you, Tony and Johnny, you know, well, and your your co-star is great. And like,
• 4:01
  there's a lot of humor in the film. And I guess I just wanted to ask like, was that a conscious thing
• 4:05
  on the part of both of you? But I guess particularly for you, Zach, did you want to create a sort of
• 4:08
  British crime movie that was a little bit different from the stuff we normally get, that kind of
• 4:12
  gray, sub-guy-richy sort of style? Yeah, I think a lot of the gangster and gangster comedy movies
• 4:19
  tend to fall into those categories of their quite violent, but the comedy moments are big as well.
• 4:24
  But they're always interchange with the two of us. I think it was trying to find the right balance
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  where where do we fit in with the, how much comedy do we want, how much of the gang violence do we
• 4:34
  want? I think we were leaning more towards the comedy side, which was great for us, but they still
• 4:40
  enough gangster in there that people can enjoy that side of that side of the film and that genre.
• 4:45
  Yeah, it's interesting finding your own tonal shift with it because it does go back and forth
• 4:51
  between the two. And I just love the comedy that was coming out of Johnny and Tony and they
• 4:55
  worked so well together. Just as a duo, luckily it's not the first time they've been a duo on
• 5:00
  screen together. Well, I was going to ask you, too, because it wasn't quite hard for you to
• 5:04
  play that. Was that a challenge? Because as you say, it's such a mix of registers. The crime
• 5:09
  stuff is quite, there is humor in there, but it's also serious when it needs to be, it's violent,
• 5:14
  when it needs to be, and then you sort of, you can pivot from that to quite light-hearted,
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  does it say kind of quirky, buddy comedy? Was that a bit of a challenge ever on set, sort of performing
• 5:23
  those two registers in the others as well? I think it was quite lucky because Zach had
• 5:28
  very much set out where he wants the tones in different bits. Like the end dinner soon
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  was very clear. Don't you dare improv tone to not try to make any jokes? This is an emotional scene.
• 5:40
  But now having that clear layout for us was great because there's also takes when
• 5:44
  Zach would turn around to me and Johnny and go, all right, this one's for you, too. Do we want
• 5:47
  get through dialogue and then let's run through? So it just, it became a playground and having Johnny
• 5:52
  that I've worked with before, doing a comedy road trip with me. We know we can improv. The only
• 5:57
  problem is we always try and make the other one laugh because that does become a problem. It's
• 6:01
  like this scene with that we're Bradley who plays Clark in, he's given us instructions.
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  Just it's after the Ed Walsh pass holding the box of wine. Johnny puts his finger up. You see it
• 6:12
  in the outtakes where Johnny puts his finger up so close to my face that I'm trying to be serious
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  and I was gone. There was quite a few takes that I was like, well, that's going to be done for this
• 6:22
  take guys. It's been lovely seeing you all. I love that though. You would add so much to it because
• 6:26
  the fact that they know each other and they've worked together and they do try and genuinely
• 6:30
  set each other off. It added that extra dimensions of the character as well and it just plays out
• 6:35
  well in the edit. I was going to ask about that specifically because yeah, like the energy,
• 6:39
  the chemistry between you, Tony and Johnny is so kind of, there's a lot of electricity to it,
• 6:45
  you know, and it kind of forms the beating heart of the movie in a lot of ways. That friendship
• 6:48
  kind of forms the heart in a lot of ways. You mentioned there that you guys we would improvise
• 6:53
  on set. I did want to ask about sort of instances of improv. I mean, you mentioned that's all wine
• 6:58
  seed because that seemed to kind of plays out in that what that's on medium-wide Sean, you know,
• 7:01
  and then the character comes in in the back and he's carrying the box of wine. I mean, like,
• 7:06
  comedy always plays better, kind of like, you know, in those sort of wider shots with like we
• 7:09
  can see all the different players sort of in the shot. Like when you came to shooting the comedy,
• 7:14
  was it always kind of like that? Like, you know, okay, we're going to keep this in a wider,
• 7:17
  we're going to go in for a close-up or how did you guys shoot an interplay on comedy?
• 7:22
  I agree with you. So I think comedy works so much better on the wide when you can see everything,
• 7:26
  and you just leave the awkwardness sitting there on the middle of the screen with nowhere to go.
• 7:30
  We did consider on sets getting the reverse angle of Johnny and Tony, but I didn't feel like it made
• 7:38
  sense. I'm not much a director of coverage. I like shooting what I want, which does leave me in
• 7:43
  a tricky spot sometimes when I've missed something. I think it's more intentional keeping it that way
• 7:47
  and just learning the comedy play-outs. Even with their backs turned, Tony and Tony are still being
• 7:53
  funny, and it's the turn back that gives that next step of the laugh. So it's better on the wide.
• 8:01
  And I think you even see that in the, there's that scene where the kind of line-up scene outside,
• 8:05
  the, you know, where the, where the gangster explains to you guys like the, the chipper,
• 8:09
  or whatever, you know, the chipper, and there's a white, there's the line-up and you're all
• 8:12
  arrayed against the shot. And it plays so well in that wide shot, you know, the comedy, the back
• 8:16
  and forth. It's where it works really well. Yeah, I think some of that, it reminds me of playtime
• 8:22
  by Jack Tatty or Emily as well, where you've got those weird, funny moments on the wide, and
• 8:27
  everything's just so kind of unnatural, and these people have to try and fit in in some way.
• 8:32
  That physical comedy comes in as playing. You can't get physical comedy on a closer, but it just
• 8:37
  fills off. So yeah, it was nice to be able to actually just sit back and let the wide play.
• 8:41
  And then for you, Tony, and I guess actually this is both of you, but I guess specifically for you,
• 8:44
  Tony, like what kind of, what were those scenes that you have particular fun with, where Zach was
• 8:48
  just like, right, okay, you, you know, Johnny, you guys should just go off and, you know, you can sort
• 8:51
  of do what more or less what you want, and then come back, I guess, into sort of the meat of the
• 8:55
  scene, but you guys can go off and improvise. Like what were the kind of scenes that stuck out in
• 8:58
  your mind for that? That we're really good for that. The sheep farming scene, that was, that was
• 9:02
  quite big one, because literally before we were doing the scene, we had another location lined
• 9:07
  up, we can go there and the guy who owned the villa for the area states. He said, well, the guy
• 9:12
  next door, he's got sheep, we could just do it in my olive grove, which went, okay, and the guy who
• 9:17
  was playing the sheep farmer, Yorgos, he's actually a sheep farmer, so he turned up with the knives
• 9:24
  and everything. We weren't planned on chopping any out of him. No animals were harmed, but he just
• 9:28
  walked over and grabbed them, got in a headlock and just walked off. And the minute me and Johnny
• 9:31
  saw that, we thought, we're going to play with this. It was just such a strange moment, watching a man
• 9:37
  get a sheep in a headlock and just start walking towards you, you go, yeah, this has got comedy legs,
• 9:42
  we're going, it was professional, professional sheep hurting, just to say, no animals were harmed.
• 9:47
  Yeah, yeah. He wasn't pretended to be one, there's an actual woman, I'm going method, I'm going
• 9:51
  Daniel Day Lewis on this sheep. As well as you don't hear every day or say every day.
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  I mean, we've seen like that, I mean, like, how long does that then for, like, if you're playing
• 10:01
  around with it, like, how much time do you give it then? Like, it's a brief, I mean, like, we just
• 10:04
  say, okay, well, let's just set aside some time, let's just have fun. Or is it quite a sort of,
• 10:07
  like, you know, that we've got to focus on, like, what was the kind of vibe, I guess, for that?
• 10:12
  I think over the course of the film in general, we were actually pretty good with time. We finished
• 10:16
  every single day early, except for one. We always had time, we were trying not to, you know,
• 10:22
  overplay what we had, but it meant that we had time at the end of a scene or at the end of a
• 10:26
  particular shot. Someone would think of something that, oh, wouldn't it be funny if,
• 10:30
  well, we've got time. Let's do it. Let's just try it. And I kind of like that as well for the
• 10:36
  crew. So I've come from that background, and I really hate having those super long days where
• 10:40
  when you're the crew member, you're there two, three hours before everyone else, and then you leave
• 10:44
  after you've packed up, and by the time you get home, you're dead and you've got to wake up again.
• 10:48
  So it was nice having those more controlled days where we could finish early and look after
• 10:53
  casting crew a bit that up. I mean, speaking of crew roles, I mean, because of you, Zach,
• 10:57
  I mean, you're the director, but also you serve as the DP on the film, the camera man. I mean,
• 11:01
  what was the like being, I guess, shooting the movie, as well as the head honcho, the director,
• 11:06
  what was that like? It was tricky. So it's my first time actually directing. I've been
• 11:12
  DOP before, and I've directed smaller projects, but I wouldn't really class that as directing.
• 11:16
  It's more like I'm there giving helping hands. So this time, I actually got to
• 11:20
  properly talk to the actors, and that's tricky when you're also doing the technical other side of it.
• 11:27
  And my first AC, Ashley and Tyne, he was so helpful with that. He was handling so much of the
• 11:32
  like moving equipment and setting up the camera, and I would just go like, well, a bit lower,
• 11:37
  a bit round, right there. That's good, cool. Let's sort of light. And then it gave me times talk to
• 11:41
  actors, but I kind of wish I had more. So I think that's a lesson for me for next time is just
• 11:46
  balance the time a little bit better. I'd love to be able to give more to the actors next time.
• 11:49
  I hear a lot of directing. It is a huge part of it is time management, isn't it? Because you've
• 11:52
  got so many HODs and so much stuff machinery around you to balance. So you know, it's a lot.
• 11:58
  As you say, it's making a low budget film, it is challenging. I mean, what was the most,
• 12:02
  I guess, it's sort of a double barrel question for both of you, but what was sort of the most
• 12:05
  challenging day on set that you remember? And also, I guess on the opposite, what was the most
• 12:09
  fun day that you guys both had? Like the hardest day and also the funnest day.
• 12:12
  Going back, you going? Yeah, I think the funnest day for me was when we shot the Macho Alante
• 12:17
  stuff, the fake TV show, the very end of the end credits, because that was the crew just kind
• 12:23
  of messing about on camera, pretending to be actors for a bit. Hardest day, I don't get
• 12:29
  notice a day that stands out where things went like so badly wrong that we were breaking it.
• 12:36
  Or we would lost it. I'm sure there are moments tiny, can you think? I think the hardest day
• 12:44
  was probably the, for me personally, it's a dinner table scene because we're outside. It's just kind
• 12:50
  of keeping in that emotional state for it for that long, but it was like the payoff on it.
• 12:57
  When I see that scene, it's one of my favourite scenes, because it just looks incredible.
• 13:00
  The formats are very long. Like Christina who played beer, the fear on their face, right?
• 13:04
  And the intensity from Yannis. It was just the perfect scene for that.
• 13:09
  But now the fun scene, definitely Macho Alante, the only problem with that is,
• 13:13
  and now, when they put me in a wig for this, I didn't know there was going to be a wig,
• 13:17
  and I'll exactly produce a Murray. He just turned around and I brought this wig with me.
• 13:21
  And for no reason, there was no explanation why he had a wig in his bag.
• 13:25
  No. I don't know if he's a fugitive, but it would just seem like a strange thing to go out and
• 13:30
  you put this on. Don't worry, target me with the wig though.
• 13:33
  So the wig was the, the funnest, the funnest down set was, who was it, the wig?
• 13:37
  I think the fun was a stretch. Oh, brilliant. I'm going to wear a wig.
• 13:42
  Great. But annoyingly, I did come out wearing a wig and looked in the mirror
• 13:47
  and thought that does actually look quite good, quickly on the phone to remain in Turkey.
• 13:51
  See what we can fix?
• 13:54
  You mentioned the dinner scene at the end there. That really sort of intense
• 13:56
  sort of payoff to the movie, which is at the end between the characters they all get to
• 14:01
  and the violence erupts kind of at the end. And the relationship that's seen specifically,
• 14:06
  I wanted to ask was about the influences that were sort of informing you as you were making the movie.
• 14:09
  I guess both as an actor, Tony, but also for you as the director's actor.
• 14:11
  Because in that scene, I can see a bit, there's a little bit of seven with the box elsewhere in
• 14:16
  the movie. I kind of sensed a little bit of sexy beast. And as I say that, you know, you hearken
• 14:20
  bats, that's all guy richy, sort of strand of British gangster, but with that comedy mixed in.
• 14:24
  I mean, what kind of films and filmmakers were influencer and actors were influencing the two
• 14:28
  of you as you were making this film? I think you just put on the sexy base. That's definitely one
• 14:32
  that came up a few times. I mean, visually, I love that film because you've got those clear blue
• 14:37
  skies, the bright colors, they let the sun hit in a lot of shots. I think modern cinema now tends
• 14:43
  to be everything's heavily diffused all the time. And there's no sense of hardness and I quite
• 14:49
  like that, even though Greece is the lovely beautiful section of our film. It's actually the hardest
• 14:55
  for lighting. I think one of the other ones would be, I'm going to say this film name wrong,
• 14:58
  because I've never actually heard anyone say it before, and I can't remember how this
• 15:01
  out the film, Sicario. Sicario, that's it. Am I saying that right? Oh, good. Yeah, I'll take that.
• 15:07
  Yes, I love the scene in that where the hitman approaches the like the mob boss near the end
• 15:13
  and takes him out of the lighting for that. I tried to replicate in some way for the dinner table
• 15:18
  scene at the end, which was really simple. It was just two lights, just bang one off the
• 15:23
  umbrella and then one off the pool. That's what we did. Going in with the technical approach,
• 15:27
  I like to keep things very simple and then keep the lights out the way the actors so they can move
• 15:32
  around space, because what I found with this film and acts in general is that the actors will say to
• 15:38
  me, oh, the blocking is okay, but it's also rubbish. Let's do it my way. And the actors have better
• 15:44
  ideas. They know where they want to move, they know where they want to be, and as long as they're
• 15:48
  fulfilling like what needs to happen in the plots, it's good to be able to let them move. So the
• 15:52
  fact that we have the freedom to do that, it worked really well. No, you know, I said the next one
• 15:58
  I'm doing cartwheels around the table just for fun. I feel my character would do this.
• 16:03
  Like for that. I mean, I was going to ask about the lighting in that scene actually, because
• 16:07
  and I think you get this in sexy beast and in this film, when you're shooting in that kind of
• 16:11
  climate, obviously the skies are really blue and the light is beautiful, but also the nights are
• 16:16
  really black. The pitch black, that sort of hard black up against these golden lights coming from
• 16:22
  the house, the villa at the end. And it was really beautifully put together. I really
• 16:25
  admired what you guys did on that. It was like, and obviously the way it was played and the way
• 16:28
  that you know, the blocking of it, where we've euternia and Johnny and the others, it worked really
• 16:32
  well. I just said, yeah, that was a particular scene I enjoyed. It was a tricky one as well,
• 16:36
  because we were using a Sony F55, which is a great camera, but where the modern Venice cameras
• 16:44
  have much higher ISOs, it made it slightly tricky for the nighttime scenes because it really
• 16:49
  was dark, and we had a very small lighting kit. So next time I think I'd love to go with a
• 16:55
  lovely Sony Venice or Venice too. Sony's listening, please give me a Venice. Yeah, more for the car now.
• 17:03
  Well, I guess sometimes less as more I guess with lighting, you know, like I think about like
• 17:06
  Robbie Mueller or like, like say, like Roger Deacon shots a car, yeah. And the way he lights
• 17:10
  things is so specific to him, but also like, you know, it feels like it looks how it really looks,
• 17:14
  you know, it isn't just totally stylized. And that's something that I like to this film,
• 17:17
  so it looked, it wasn't just great realism. It had, there was a style to it, but also it looked
• 17:21
  naturalistic. It looked real, yeah, which I always I appreciate. That's definitely the aim for it,
• 17:26
  making it naturalistic. So I think you see so many films now, particularly from Netflix and
• 17:31
  the YouTube generation cinematographers where you would just get like a really overly saturated,
• 17:36
  bright color bomb and then another one here and everything looks a little bit weird and you
• 17:41
  wouldn't normally see it like that. So trying to strike that natural balance was it was pretty key
• 17:45
  for me. I wanted it to look like real life. And if you tell me like what kind of sort of
• 17:50
  agus actors, but also I guess filmmakers or films were influencing you when you were making,
• 17:53
  there's any particular sort of touch points for you. Yeah, one of the main ones to be was,
• 17:57
  was Snatch because the dynamic between Stapham and Stephen Graham and that is just incredible.
• 18:03
  It is getting across in the worst situations. If you're with your mate, you're still going to
• 18:08
  find things funny. There's still going to be moments like this is horrific, but there is
• 18:13
  something funny about it and that's what they captured so well and that does hope in that
• 18:17
  me and Johnny could translate into R1 as well. That and the high difference between them is
• 18:21
  similar to me and Johnny. It's just any scene where me and Johnny were walking. He'd always try
• 18:25
  to find a little bit of a ledge to get one up, but it's like when we were doing the hanging,
• 18:31
  the torches in, we'd already been at degrees and unswimples it. And Johnny had said to me,
• 18:34
  I'll tell you, and I think I'm going to wear a top during this women pool scenes to basically make
• 18:38
  me feel more confident. I was going to be having a look. Okay, cool. We got there, took his top off,
• 18:43
  had abs. Someone put a vest on this man. This is ridiculous now. This can't happen. I've only
• 18:48
  got the height now. The way you talk about how you guys work together. I know you said earlier
• 18:52
  that you'd work before this film, is that right? Yeah, I mean, what is your working relationship
• 18:59
  like with Johnny? I guess on a day to day basis on set, it sounds like it's very close and it's
• 19:03
  very, I like to say that sort of comes off on screen. Is that what it's like? Yeah, that's exactly
• 19:07
  what it's like. So actually, we're halfway through filming American Road Trip movie.
• 19:12
  So we filmed the first half before and then we've done a gangster's life and I'm back with Johnny
• 19:18
  again in March to the film. More of that. Yeah, the working relationship is pretty much the same
• 19:23
  where we're constantly trying to make each other laugh and just, it makes it a lot easier,
• 19:27
  because a minute you get on set, you're already makes it anyway. And how did you guys first meet,
• 19:31
  if you know what I'm asking? Did you first meet on set? Or was it just like with your friends before
• 19:34
  you started working? Yeah, basically, I'd become aware of his Twitter, he started in a lot of
• 19:40
  videos on Twitter, but when crazy, so it was so funny. Following that to his life, that side bit.
• 19:46
  And then when I was doing the, yeah, I can write, yes, but when crazy, he's got a great story about
• 19:50
  how he met all the, the casting crew of Ted Lasso just off of the back of that. They recognized him
• 19:55
  in a pub in Richmond, which was insane. Yeah, I was doing the American Road Trip one, I'd signed on
• 19:59
  to that. And then they auditioned in Johnny for that. And then, yeah, I met Johnny on set and just
• 20:04
  hit it off straight away. And Zach was on that as the OP. We all kind of got to have that
• 20:08
  rapport build straight from the, from the outset. And Zach, do you like having to direct these
• 20:13
  series? Is it ever challenging or is it always just... Yeah, Zach. Lucy, you said, what's that like?
• 20:17
  Is it challenging, Zach? No, it's not challenging. It's really lovely. I think it's always a
• 20:23
  challenge, maybe, because I'm, I'm in my head seeing the edit and saying that clip goes here,
• 20:28
  that one goes there, don't need that bit. And then when I think, okay, yeah, this one's perfect,
• 20:33
  this one's going to go in this very specific little section that can only fit this exact bit,
• 20:39
  that's when Tony will improv. And I'll go, well, I've been that one. That's done.
• 20:43
  Ruined. The challenge comes in post in on set for Nominoth. I mean, when it comes to like
• 20:49
  editing, because you mentioned editing, like, so you direct these very much when you're on set,
• 20:53
  shooting, you're thinking, like, you know, you're thinking, have many weeks or months ahead in the
• 20:57
  edit. Yeah, this, this will work here. I need this little bit of coverage or this here, this here.
• 21:01
  Is that how you approach this all day today? Yeah. So, so everything's storyboarding anyway,
• 21:06
  so we have the rough sense of how it's going to be, but always when, when you're on set,
• 21:10
  there's usually something that, that throws you or it could be that you see a shot that works
• 21:14
  better and can make the day more efficient at the same time. So stepping away from the story,
• 21:19
  what a little bit is fine, but in my head, I'm still seeing, it's like I'm watching the film
• 21:24
  as we're going and I'm spotting blanks. And that, that's come slightly from being in this low
• 21:29
  budget short film, old, it beforehand, where I'd have the D.O.P. and I sometimes be like every other
• 21:35
  crew member role at the same time, so. Advising the client. Okay, we're kind of missing this shot,
• 21:40
  or we might need that bit. I think everyone in that kind of railman's up doing that, but it's,
• 21:45
  it's useful to have that skill as a director, because then I'm not reliant on saying,
• 21:49
  oh my artistic vision wants this and I don't want that, no, you need that shot, don't be stupid.
• 21:55
  And I guess it's always helps, we're like, you know, so it needs you to disaster issue,
• 21:58
  you don't have to go back and pick up as much, because you've got what you need in the can already.
• 22:02
  I do want to ask about the location, the locations of the movie, because like, because a lot of it
• 22:06
  is sort of, well, a bit of it is short, I want to say in Greenwich, in sort of our dogs and sort of
• 22:10
  like South East. I lived there for years, that was my backyard. I mean, how much
• 22:15
  important, because a lot of these, you know, like I said, London set against me, these location is,
• 22:19
  it's important because it kind of captures the spirit of the film. And they kind of, the film
• 22:23
  is then coming about where they are as much as, you know, who they're about. Was it purely down
• 22:27
  circumstance, do you like, okay, we can get that location for that? The time I was like, no, we want
• 22:31
  to make a movie about this part of London, this kind of vibe, this kind of terrain.
• 22:36
  It was a bit of a mixture. So we had ideas in the head of what these places would look like,
• 22:41
  or our ideal version of it would look like. And then we'd have to see kind of the reality of a
• 22:46
  situation. And I think most of the times we got something that looked the way we wanted it to look.
• 22:51
  But where you went, where you mentioned Greenwich and other dogs, that was for the, like,
• 22:55
  pickups on some of the external shots. So I literally just drove around with a camera, and I'd
• 22:59
  stop places and thought, right, that's my external, that's my external. That was, I think we shot that
• 23:04
  back in December last year, maybe. But yeah, there were, there's definitely intentions of the way
• 23:09
  things look, but obviously sometimes you say, maybe this isn't exactly how I want it, but it's 90%
• 23:16
  of the way there. And every location looked after us so well. But as soon as you mention that
• 23:21
  you're doing a film, and it's just kind of a fun one, everyone wants to get involved. So we had
• 23:25
  really good people and, like, it's not when we were filming in the video to restate the family
• 23:29
  that lived there. When we had, I see it, when we had one of the days where we had a little bit
• 23:34
  of downtime, many said, oh, you come to us and we'll cook for you. And they put on this massive
• 23:39
  spread for all the cast on crew to sit with them. And so we had the best location for what we wanted
• 23:44
  visually. Also, just the people that I was at, we couldn't have anywhere better. That's something
• 23:49
  to, because I feel like the impression I get is that the further out you have central London,
• 23:53
  you go, you further out you go into, you know, the other sort of burras and neighborhoods,
• 23:56
  the more sort of friendly and tolerant people are of shooting and filming in general. I feel
• 24:00
  like if you shoot in central people, just don't want to hear about it. They don't want to know.
• 24:03
  They're of you, you know, F off.
• 24:07
  Yeah, totally right. It's definitely easy. So we shot some dark food, some in Essex,
• 24:12
  up in Finchingfield. We're else to be shoot. We shot in the, um, Baxle in Hilsix.
• 24:18
  That's one of my favorite shots is that one where you've got Vincent Clarke, Stevie and Bradley,
• 24:22
  standing outside the office building. And then it cuts to the other side and you see the big
• 24:26
  sign at the top where it looks like they're on a Palm Beach on this old, battered, battered office.
• 24:32
  I couldn't believe that when I saw it on the wreck, it was like, that is perfect. That is going
• 24:36
  in the script. Not a problem. It was the set design. It was already there. Oh, yeah.
• 24:40
  It was, it was just there already. That was an, the person's idea of anything to do with that.
• 24:44
  It was like, that's it. That's there. Just perfect.
• 24:47
  So a question that we ask all, I guess, on half the picture is, so you know, we obviously
• 24:51
  get a lot of filmmakers on, a lot of actors, people who are passionate about film, people who are
• 24:55
  film workers. And something that we ask, is there somebody, whether it be an actor, filmmaker,
• 25:00
  you know, the editor's DP out there working in film today who you haven't worked with before?
• 25:05
  And you'd love to work with the most. I mean, for the both of you, like, is there anyone out there
• 25:09
  currently working who you haven't worked with before that you would love to work with?
• 25:11
  If there's anyone, yeah. I mean, I, I'd just like go and watch what Christopher Ireland does for,
• 25:17
  or Roger Deakin's as well. I'd love to just sit and watch them. Like, not do any work. I wouldn't
• 25:21
  do any work on those sets. I would just follow them. I think Michael Cain, I think I'd have to persuade
• 25:28
  him out of retirement. But yeah, that he's been just a idol for might be years. I've read every
• 25:35
  book of him or the stories. When he's coming up, he's always been one. I was like, yes,
• 25:39
  if I could get on with him, or Gary Olben, either of those. I go for him.
• 25:43
  So if you're a classic London kind of working class,
• 25:46
  festbians, like, yeah, like you, like you Gary Olben, Zima. I mean, do you have like a specific
• 25:50
  favorite Michael Cain sort of film or performance or a Gary Olben film that you particularly love?
• 25:54
  Oh, that's a tough question. There's a lot of them, isn't it? Yeah. Michael Cain, the,
• 25:59
  the epicious files were incredible. There's just so many stories about him. Like, when he was first
• 26:04
  coming up and he'd done his first big jobs and he was earning money, he went to buy a Rolls-Royce
• 26:09
  and he went into dealership and asked by it. And the guy in there said to him, I don't believe
• 26:14
  you've got the money because they're just purely based on his accent. So he went next door,
• 26:18
  brought another Rolls-Royce down the road and drove past where his middle finger out of the window.
• 26:23
  That's more like it. Because literally, there is a big stigma against working class actors.
• 26:28
  Like, even from my generation coming up, I had it. I've turned up to things that have been told
• 26:32
  you two commons played as wrong. So you think if I'm getting it now, how bad would someone like
• 26:38
  him and Gary Albany and so kind of pioneering and coming through? They would have had it so much
• 26:42
  worse, but they just kept going on. Yeah. It makes you realise how important films like,
• 26:47
  you know, actors like Gary Orman and like, and also like Tim Roth and like Ray Winster and like
• 26:51
  Steven Graham, Steven Graham, all those guys. Like, I think about films like, yeah, quadriffinia
• 26:56
  or like, or scum or like, made in Britain. And then later on, the stuff Steven Graham did,
• 27:01
  like, obviously, like, this is England and Smatch, you know. So is there still, do you think,
• 27:04
  a big stigma of these? I mean, because I feel like people make more noise about it these days
• 27:07
  that we have to be more progressive with casting, but you think there is still a bit of stigma
• 27:10
  about working class actors, working class, you know, film workers that is still sort of in there?
• 27:15
  Yeah, there's still definitely in there. I think it is better than what they had to endure,
• 27:20
  100% because they did chop down a lot for us. But it's still there. I'll still turn up to
• 27:26
  auditions and not so much now, but at the beginning of the career, I'd get it more. But I think also
• 27:33
  now I'm kind of comfortable enough in myself to highlight it if I've got a problem.
• 27:39
  And how about you, Zah? Have you ever experienced that in this movie? Because I guess with this movie,
• 27:42
  especially like, you're making a movie about, you know, very working class characters. I mean,
• 27:46
  like, you know, was it, was it, was that, was it a tricky movie to make in that regard?
• 27:50
  Did you get any sort of pushback on that at all? Or was that, you know, was there any difficulties
• 27:54
  relating that to this with the wider film? I don't think I had those kind of difficulties for the
• 27:59
  movie. I think from a, a crew side, it's different from the actors side. Because film is,
• 28:06
  I suppose for both actually actors and crew, it's hard to get into and stay into because the work
• 28:11
  is not as constant. So you kind of need to come from some sense of money or be okay being dirt
• 28:18
  pour for a while watching the work and building up. So yeah, it's definitely harder to get into
• 28:25
  without some kind of financial backing, I think. That, that would be my take on it. I think
• 28:30
  there should be more grants and that for people rather than just, you know, it should be financed
• 28:34
  based. You're going to apply it to, to a lot of the hearts, you know, film and like, you know,
• 28:38
  otherwise, you know, it is tricky. I think you first get started. It's just, it's so hard.
• 28:41
  And actually come from a well off family background. It's really hard to find a footing,
• 28:45
  isn't it financially? Because you know, that is such an important part, you know, you have to live,
• 28:48
  aren't you? So it's a, it's a really crucial part of it. I guess, as a final question,
• 28:52
  what kinds of things can we expect from you both coming down the pipeline? Have you got any
• 28:56
  exciting projects that you're working on? Are you guys getting it planning on maybe working
• 28:59
  together again? Like, you know, what kind of things can we expect from you guys? Yeah, yeah.
• 29:04
  Yeah, well, I know the question. No, it's a good question. One, we've got two or three projects
• 29:09
  we're looking at. So be me, Tony and I business partner, Murray Fisher. And we're looking to go
• 29:15
  to slightly different genre next, I think. I don't know how much I'm really allowed to say,
• 29:20
  Tony and Murray are more producers, so. If you see a little sniping at your chest, you're up.
• 29:25
  Recently went out filming at New Boy Anna Studios. They did running man and they're doing the
• 29:31
  Farber Joe World of Alpuchina. Got talking to the exec there through our other exec,
• 29:35
  Charles Aldson. And these guys, they've just slightly hidden his dad, they've produced Rambo,
• 29:41
  Expendables, Loads, Loads Films. So we started talking about the fact that we've just done
• 29:44
  gangster life for we now want to do a bigger, bigger production. So yeah, we're going from doing
• 29:50
  indie film as Zack's debut to then a studio film for his second one. So again, to film over there,
• 29:57
  we're going to do a horror. This script is in development at the moment. So it's, yeah, it's a big
• 30:02
  big leap up. It's very exciting. Fantastic. I understand that you say, you know, you can't
• 30:06
  say too much about it, but you've peed my interest. I mean, what kind of can you say anything about
• 30:10
  what kind of horror you're going to be sort of playing with, what kind of direction you're going to
• 30:13
  go in with that genre? I think we'd probably strike a fun balance somewhere between terrifying
• 30:20
  and entertaining. So a lot of films at the moment, I think go down the slightly weird route too
• 30:24
  much and they leave off a lot of the entertainment. I think we would strike a balance between the
• 30:28
  two there. Okay. You're sort of Sam Raimi, you plastic Sam Raimi, you've all dead kind of like
• 30:32
  mix of horror and kind of fun fast-paced comedy. Was that maybe too strong? I think, I think,
• 30:37
  I think it was a little bit probably losing, probably losing the comedy more of action entertainment,
• 30:41
  then comedy entertainment in those ones. They're still going to be really scary. Okay, great.
• 30:46
  Well, I was curious because obviously there's the comedy in this, the kind of quirky comedy where
• 30:49
  you'd carry that on, but it sounds fantastic. It's a kind of horror thriller action kind of vibe.
• 30:55
  Yeah, I think so. And it's going to be tricky keeping everyone
• 30:59
  from jumping to comedy because I think everyone we've got has such a fun time on set. I need to keep
• 31:04
  everyone serious for the next one. Fantastic. Well, I've had such a great time chatting to you guys.
• 31:09
  I really enjoyed the movie and thanks so much to the both of you for coming on half the picture.
• 31:13
  I can't wait to see what you guys do next. Thanks for having us on. Really appreciate it.
• 31:16
  Cheers guys. Cheers bad. See ya.
• 31:27
  Hey everyone. Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Sac Fening and Tony Cook.
• 31:32
  Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast. See you never miss an episode.
• 31:35
  And stay tuned for more exciting interviews and guests coming soon on half the picture.