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Feminists Around the World: Hawai'ian Women in Surfing · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told you production by I heard.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: You, And welcome to another edition of Feminists around the World.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: And as May is aapi Asian American Pacific Islander History Month.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: And I know there's other acronyms for this, so I
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: will pull that up, but that's the most commonly used
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: as of today. And we are talking surfers, yeah, writers
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: and surfers as well as a surfing community of Hawaii.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Same little caveat here. As per usual, we are doing
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: our best in getting the translations and pronunciations correct. If
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: you're a native Hawaiian and wants to weigh in and
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: tell us what we need to correct, please do. But yes,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: you know, mispronunciations are not going to stop us. We'd
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: love call ins, but we also love talking about our
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  Speaker 2: peoples in different people's in cultures, so you know, all
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: that good stuff. But any I have to ask, do
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: you know how to surf? Have you ever gone surfing?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Have gun surfing? Ooh surfing? And everyone who knows how
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a surf is going to roll their eyes when I
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: say this, surfing is very difficult. Yeah, it is extremely difficult,
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  Speaker 1: Like it looks like the smallest wave, like I could
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  Speaker 1: do that, but the way you have to push yourself
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  Speaker 1: up on the board requires a lot of arm strength
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  Speaker 1: and coordination, so I can't. I would never say I
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  Speaker 1: can surf. I can say I have done it okay,
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  Speaker 1: and I mostly fell off on like what I would
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  Speaker 1: call kitty waves, but it was very difficult. It was
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: extremely difficult.
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  Speaker 2: I'm sure I've just watched it from TV shows, like
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I've seen a few people surf obviously, but I don't
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  Speaker 2: live on the West Coast, and the coat, like the
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: wave scene in the East Coast is not huge.
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  Speaker 1: We know this.
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  Speaker 2: People still do there are the people do things. But
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  Speaker 2: I always watch surfers in awe because the amount of strength,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: core strength and leg strength and arm strength, like you
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: just needed to have it all. And I've never Uh
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not coordinated either, like I can barely stand up
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: in general.
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  Speaker 1: But no, I'm just saying so I haven't even there.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think there's a point that I will ever try,
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  Speaker 2: because I'm absolutely one of those like I will look silly,
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  Speaker 2: so I'm not even going to try to put myself
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  Speaker 2: through that humiliation. But I love watching it, and I
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: think it's an incredible sport, so we definitely wanted to
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: talk about it. And yeah, we're going to talk about
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  Speaker 2: some of the history and women who are advocating for
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: others within the sport, specifically again in Hawaii. Just to
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  Speaker 2: let you know, this is kind of a two parter,
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  Speaker 2: not exactly like I'm not making to see it, Okay,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to talk about a few of the
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  Speaker 2: people behind the scenes. Few are the people who are
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  Speaker 2: talking about the history of it and how women have
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: been involved for a while and just bringing attention to it. Again,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: as per usual, this comes from people publishing books and
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  Speaker 2: new documentaries that are coming out.
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  Speaker 1: Which is cool that.
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  Speaker 2: Again, Annie, go ahead and get your notepad out, because
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: we're going to have to put this on the list
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  Speaker 2: because I do really want to read this book. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: think it's gonna be really interesting, as well as some
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: of the documentary that's been released in the last couple
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: of years showing fierce young women coming out into the
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  Speaker 2: sport and really making headway. So cool, cool, cool, And
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  Speaker 2: we're going to start with writer, journalists and surfer Mindy Pennibacker.
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  Speaker 2: Pennybacker grew up in the south of Owahu, surfing like
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  Speaker 2: many of the other kids in the area, but as
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: a young girl, she received a lot of backlash and
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  Speaker 2: pushback from some of the other boys that she served with,
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  Speaker 2: many who would only make fun of her or harass her,
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  Speaker 2: but often would even still her ways to assert their
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  Speaker 2: dominance over her.
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  Speaker 1: Very very tricky.
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  Speaker 2: I've seen us some movies.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exact, that's true. You're right, it's a popular.
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  Speaker 2: Real silly saying that Fortunately she was mentored by a
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  Speaker 2: surf legend, Alfred Rabbit Kakai, who coached her and so
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  Speaker 2: many others, even coaching women who would go on to
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  Speaker 2: become national champions in surfing. Uh. In an interview with
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: surfer dot com, she said, Rabbit would tell me what
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  Speaker 2: to do. Tongs was thronged with kids in the late sixties,
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  Speaker 2: and he was the only adult who seemed to care
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  Speaker 2: about us. He would be coaching Heidi Hemmings, the younger
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  Speaker 2: sister of champion Fred Hemmings, or Ev Black, who became
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  Speaker 2: a national champion, but also he would teach the rest
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  Speaker 2: of us etiquette and how to surf respectfully, tell us okay,
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  Speaker 2: now is so and So's turn, and talking about how
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  Speaker 2: to surf correctly and politely.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, not stealing the one not stealing those waves right.
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  Speaker 1: And with people like that, her love for surfing and
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  Speaker 1: her community grew. But she always understood that the discrimination
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  Speaker 1: and sexism within the surf cold sure was toxic and
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: exists even today. And after she returned to Hawaii, she
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  Speaker 1: started writing for the Honolulu Star Advertiser and there she
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  Speaker 1: spoke up about the surf culture, including encounters and surf
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  Speaker 1: etiquettes within the community. In the same surfer dot com interview,
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  Speaker 1: she talked about her work for the column and she
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  Speaker 1: said quote, over the years, a lot of women and
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  Speaker 1: men contacted me about the column, wanting to hear more
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  Speaker 1: about surf etiquette, the environment, gender equity and competition, and
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  Speaker 1: just being a regular woman who surfs and feeling dismissed
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  Speaker 1: and excluded by men who drop in snake as threaten
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  Speaker 1: and sometimes assaults us in the waves, as in the
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  Speaker 1: shocking incident in Bali in April when a man punched
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  Speaker 1: Sarah Taylor in the back of the head, forcing her underwater.
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  Speaker 1: I found that the sexism that we face in the
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  Speaker 1: waves is really a microcosm of what we experience on
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: land in our daily lives. One fellow a friend of
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  Speaker 1: my brother's, good surfer and self procuamed Lothario, got really
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: i rate at my descriptions of how men outflex women
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: paddle around and try to intimidate us. A couple of
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  Speaker 1: times he followed my husband down supermarket aisles and in
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: parking lots, yelling at him to quote make Mendy stop.
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  Speaker 2: And this column soon grew into its own book. In
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  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, Pennybacker released Surfing Sisterhood Hawaii Wahiinae Reclaiming
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: the Waves, And here's a bit of a descriptor from
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: the Honolulu magazine dot com quote. In Surfing Sisterhood Hawaii,
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  Speaker 2: Pennibacker shares stories from more than thirty current female Hawaii
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  Speaker 2: surfers and more than one hundred striking photos and illustrations.
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  Speaker 2: It's the first collection of women in surfing actually written
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  Speaker 2: by woman. Pennybacker says she interviewed girls, busy mothers, and
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  Speaker 2: big wave changers and discussed several pivotal events in the
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: past five years that depict the evolution of quote surf
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: culture through a female lens. And it quotes her saying
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: the book is called Reclaiming the Waves because I learned
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  Speaker 2: that women did originally surf with equal rights to men
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: in Hawaii, which I hadn't known at all. After the
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: twentieth century, men dominated because stuffing became commodified and commercialized.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: In her interview with surfer dot Com, Pennybacker talks about
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the history and legend of Hawaiian surfing. She said, quote
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: in the Hawaiian Origin Miss Paley and her sister Hiaka,
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  Speaker 1: the goddess of fire and the goddess of hula, they
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: both surfed. Hula and surfing go together in traditional culture,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and many of the women I interview in the book
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: do both. And legend and reality, women serfed as equals
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: as men. I was shocked to learn this while researching
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  Speaker 1: my book, because modern men had rewritten the history of
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: surfing to favor themselves. In a legend that predates Westerner's
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  Speaker 1: arrival and was later written down by Samuel Kamakau, there
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  Speaker 1: was the Surfcuala from Maui, and she just lived to surf.
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  Speaker 1: All she did was surf, and she was beautiful, and
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  Speaker 1: her surfing talent was known all throughout the islands. So
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  Speaker 1: this chief of Oahu was looking for a spouse, and
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  Speaker 1: he sent his guys in a boat to go kidnap her.
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  Speaker 1: She had to live with him inland on Oahu, and
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  Speaker 1: she was totally miserable.
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  Speaker 2: And she continues in the article, she had four children
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  Speaker 2: with him, and she had never been to the coast
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  Speaker 2: on Oahu, but she could see it from the saddle
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  Speaker 2: where they're up there at the junction between kol Lao
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  Speaker 2: and Wayiny Mountain ranges. Finally, she said, I just want
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  Speaker 2: to go and see the seashore. Her husband looked at
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  Speaker 2: her and he knew wouldn't see her again. Kamakal riots,
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  Speaker 2: but he let her go, escorted by some of his people,
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  Speaker 2: and she never came back. She went to Waikiki, borrowed aboard,
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  Speaker 2: served so well, and the King of Waikiki ended up
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  Speaker 2: marrying her. She just loved to serve so much more
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  Speaker 2: than her husband. She's so human to me. Is touching
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  Speaker 2: that her husband knew she was never coming back, but
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  Speaker 2: he didn't try to keep her. Seems like she had
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  Speaker 2: taught him something about love, and the article continues. Women
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  Speaker 2: traditionally enjoyed an asserted complete equality with men in the waves,
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  Speaker 2: as demonstrated by surf partners and spouses Queen Kahahumnu and
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  Speaker 2: Qing Kame Anaya. Hawaiian women and men continue to surf
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  Speaker 2: throughout the nineteenth and early twentieth century, despite the taking
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  Speaker 2: of their lands, illegal overthrow of their government, depletion of
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: food and natural resources, and a loss of half the
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: population to introduce disease. But in the mid twentieth century,
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  Speaker 2: women were pushed aside by men because surfing became lucrative.
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  Speaker 2: It was utilized by shortfront counties all over the world
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  Speaker 2: to promote tourism and sell merchandise from surfware to cars,
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  Speaker 2: and men seize the opportunity.
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  Speaker 1: And with the history. Pennybacker has been outspoken about women
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  Speaker 1: being a part of the surfing world. In a Flux
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  Speaker 1: Hawaii dot com article, they post Pennybacker's book, where she writes,
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  Speaker 1: I began writing a newspaper column on surfing, which grew
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  Speaker 1: into my book, Surfing Sisterhood Hawaii Juahini, Reclaiming the Waves.
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  Speaker 1: I have been happy to see more females in the
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  Speaker 1: lineup than when I was a girl, but alarmed to
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  Speaker 1: witness for a more overt gender based intimidation and insulting,
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  Speaker 1: dismissive behavior from males. A booming sport since the mid
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: twentieth century, surfing even in its everyday, supposedly fun form
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  Speaker 1: has gotten exponentially more crowded and competitive, which stoke some
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  Speaker 1: men's frustration and aggression. Worldwide, as of twenty sixteen, there
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  Speaker 1: were an estimated thirty three million surfers, with males outnumbering
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  Speaker 1: females by males four to one according to the International
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Surfing Association, But in Waii the average ratio that I
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: and other women observe is more like eight to one. Meanwhile,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: competitive surfing allots places to half as many females as
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: male contestants, from amateur kkey events to the elite Big
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Wave and World Championship pro tours. To date, only surfing's
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Olympic debut in the twenty twenty Tokyo Summer Games, where
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Hawaii Krisa Kayanani more one gold has fielded equal numbers
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  Speaker 1: of women and men. Hawaii's women surfers are reclaes aiming
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: our traditional rights in the waves and joining their colleagues
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: worldwide and shredding mail chauveness myths that we can't execute
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  Speaker 1: advanced maneuvers such as getting tubed or exploding into the
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: air above the tops of the waves, or ride big
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: waves as well as men. When I was a little girl,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I was told that women can't surf, Kawaii native Kila
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  Speaker 1: Kinley said in twenty sixteen. And I was told this
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  Speaker 1: about getting barreled, surfing big waves, surfing pipeline, paddling in
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  Speaker 1: at Jaws, and the list goes on. She had just
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: become the first woman to win the open gender Pure
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Scott Barrel of the Year Big Wave Award.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And that was just a bit from her book. And
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  Speaker 2: with all of that, Pennybacker told surfer dot Com she
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  Speaker 2: does see a need for change within the industry, but
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: still wants to make sure people enjoy the nature of
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: the sport. She says, when it comes down to it,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I think we have to keep speaking up. We shouldn't
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: be afraid to keep speaking up. But we should always
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: remember that surfing well with a smile is the best revenge.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: If some guy think that a girl can't surf well
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  Speaker 2: and they cut them off, then we just show them
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: different and we laugh. Surfing is supposed to be fun
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: for men and women. I don't want us to lose
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: touch with that. So yeah, I think we definitely need
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: to put her book on our list because it sounds
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: fascinating I want to see all these pictures and yes,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: and we are going to come back to highlight some
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: of the native Hawaiian surfers next week. So if you
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: have any suggestions that you think we should put on
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: the list to talk about, go ahead and send this
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: that because we are still working on that list.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I have about four Yeah, and if any of you
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: listeners are surfers that would be cool to hear from you,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: let us know. Yes. You can email us as Stephania
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: on Twitter amstuff podcast, or on TikTok and Instagram at
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: stuff I Never told you. We have a YouTube, can
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: go there as well. We have a tea public store
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and a contributor Joey. Thank you
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Steffan never told you
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: us Direction by Heart Radio. For more podcast from my
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Apple podcast or reb you listen to favorite shows.