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What Every Christian Should Know About AI with Will Host · Rethink Revive with David Leake

• 0:00
  Dave Leake: Today, we're talking about all things AI. What is it?
• 0:03
  Dave Leake: How do we use it? Where is AI going in the future, and are there areas that are questionable as to whether we should really use AI or not? Is it going to be good for the world? How Should Christians view AI? Are pastors, you know, preaching sermons that are written by AI bots? Is that okay or not? Is using it for your homework, all this kind of stuff. We're going to talk about AI and how Christians and leaders should use it as the world moves forward. If you want to hear more, tune in. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Allison Park leadership podcast, where we have our culture creating conversations. I'm one of the hosts. My name is
• 0:38
  Jeff Leake: Dave. My name is Jeff. Of course, we're father and son and both on staff at Allison Park Church. I'm the Lead Pastor, Dave's North Side campus pastor, and we are joined with special guests. Will host today, so maybe we'll introduce yourself to everybody. Tell us who you are, what you do. Yes,
• 0:53
  Will Host: my name is Will I lead a lot of our marketing and communications here at the church. It's an honor to do that. I also run a business that helps many companies and organizations with fractional marketing leadership. So it's very similar to our engagement here, where we're not full time for the company, but we're part time, and so we're able to help sort of save some expenses and costs and also provide the strategic direction that a lot of Yeah, so your
• 1:17
  Jeff Leake: company's name and dosha and OSHA, and so someone to find you that would do and dosha.com, a, n, d, O, C, I, a.com, that was perfect. And so basically, we subcontract to you everything that is in what category?
• 1:33
  Will Host: Well, everything, really in the marketing communication space. We have internal people here at the church, obviously, but whatever they don't handle, we handle, and that's really the way that we work with most companies. So sometimes it's everything, sometimes it's pieces of things, but our onboard is typically the leadership piece. They're either they don't have a CMO or they don't have a marketing director, or whatever that might look we come and we sit in that seat, and then we help fill in the gaps by saying, okay, it sounds like you need a website developer. We'll bring a website developer on. Website developer on the team, or social media or media buying advertising, whatever it might be. We build a cross functional marketing team around them, and then sell them for one monthly cost.
• 2:11
  Jeff Leake: And we've been engaged. So you've been at Allison Park as a, you know, part of the church, for a while.
• 2:16
  Jeff Leake: Yeah, we've engaged with you for what, five months now. Five months, yeah, it's, it's going amazing. Highly recommend. It will is incredible. His team's incredible to work with. And we happened to be at lunch together the other day, and this topic kind of came to the surface, and we thought, you have an a particular vantage point on this particular issue. So we're going to talk about AI, right? Give us the Yeah,
• 2:40
  Dave Leake: okay, so, so I guess we go a lot of directions. Maybe we will, but particularly when we're talking about the church world and Christians, I guess, but probably more the church world. Wanna talk about AI and the ethics of AI when it comes to spiritual matter. So quick example, and then we can go wherever we want to go. You were sharing a story about a church, I think that had a little chat bot at the bottom, and you could click on it. It would, you know, it would be, or I think this was, was
• 3:12
  Jeff Leake: this? No city reach church in Austin, Texas, they told me to tell us about they had a bot that was on there that would answer the questions of the people that were visiting the website and the bot learned more and more about what the right answers were for the church, and eventually started to answer questions that people had about their faith, and then began to try to lead people to Christ. So the
• 3:36
  Dave Leake: AI, the AI program, so they basically chatting people to lead them to Christ.
• 3:41
  Jeff Leake: So the basically, at least the philosophy of Ministry of city reach, was, we don't want the bot doing that. We'd like a person to do that. So they limited it in terms of what its permissions were. And for me as so I don't know much about I know I know chat GPT and how to ask it a couple questions, but I don't know a whole lot about it.
• 3:58
  Jeff Leake: But that brings up, there's like a whole world. So there's a lot of different directions. It's ethics, it's the potential good that can happen in ministry.
• 4:06
  Jeff Leake: It's the danger points. It's the question, is AI going to take over the world and usher in the Antichrist? I mean, there's a whole bunch of different directions we could end up with, and you are leveraging this right now to help Allison Park Church with its market all the
• 4:22
  Dave Leake: time, let me pitch it to well, on a frame the beginning. Okay, go ahead, because I want to. We'll expand from here. So here's, here's sort of the opening. All right, I this is the I was just having this conversation with my wife.
• 4:34
  Dave Leake: This is that breaking point. I'm 34 where I'm like, massive shift in technology, and I'm feeling the pressure, like I have to stay with this, because this is where I could start to get left behind. The way that I've watched, like older generations have this because, to be honest, I don't really like a lot of it, like I know how to it's like I understand the basic way. The dumbest way is like a glorified search engine type it, it's going to respond like Google would. There's a lot more application. Ends than that. And so for me, you know, I spent a few months where I'm just trying to make sure that I have a better grasp grasp on it than just the basic functions. But what I want to ask Will to start, because I don't know that a lot of people know the full range and the scope of what AI is or what it does. Can you talk to us like when we talk about, AI, what? What are people talking about? Yeah,
• 5:23
  Will Host: absolutely it. For me, I almost had to go through like, the seven stages of loss with it, right? And, like, there were times where I was, like, literally praying fervently that, like, there would be legislation or something, somebody would, you know why it's it's going to shake things up like crazy, like it is going to my prediction, and I think a lot would agree. I think those that disagree don't fully understand it. It's going to be so much more impactful to industry than.com was then, you know, whatever, whenever you're, you know, aware of AI, there's always the argument. Well, anytime there's a giant invention, it changes the workforce, right? So the printing press changed the way that things were printed, and people lost their jobs, or had to learn something new, right?
• 6:05
  Will Host: Or whatever. The Plow was invented. It changed the way that we sickle harvest. You know, it's just it changes jobs.
• 6:12
  Will Host: It either gets rid of them or replaces them with something else. This is going to be on such a grand scale, and it's going to happen very, very quickly, and you really feel it could affect your part of the industry, it will 100% affect my part of the industry. And so there's that first part where you're fearful around it, and you're like, I'm just going to put my head in the sand and hope that this goes away. It's not going away. And 100% if you don't learn how to implement AI into what you're doing, whether you're a pastor or a business owner or whatever, wherever you are in your leadership journey.
• 6:41
  Will Host: Yeah, you've got to implement it, or you're going to get left behind. It would be like trying to do business today without an email address. I think that's how it's going to be in five to 10 years. So
• 6:51
  Jeff Leake: I was shocked around the table to find out how many of my staff use IA regularly in their ministry duties. And I was like, really, I didn't know that. So like the younger team.
• 7:01
  Jeff Leake: Guess you guys younger than you, Dave, are already adapting to it and using it constantly.
• 7:06
  Will Host: Yeah. So tell me what it is. So AI is essentially an LLM, a learning language model.
• 7:11
  Will Host: Is what we're that's a lot of what's driving what we call AI, right? And so it's just, you know, an algorithm that's kind of guessing what the next word in the sentence is going to be based off of the entire internet and its own learning. So it's kind of crazy the way that it works, but it works extraordinarily well, and it's getting better and better every single month, because chat, GPT, Claude, grok, there's so many different ways. What are those?
• 7:38
  Will Host: Those are completely different companies with completely different llms. Okay, so
• 7:43
  Jeff Leake: the LLM we tend to think of as the impersonated robot out there. That is AI, yes, and they're all kind of Siri, yeah, although that's not a learning model,
• 7:55
  Will Host: it's built on a learning language model. But they're all kind of good at different things. Claude is phenomenal with copywriting.
• 8:03
  Will Host: Like, it's super, super good.
• 8:05
  Will Host: Grok is really great at creating, like, software. It can write you code. So, like, for instance, I follow religiously my full focus planner. It's a paperback planner. I've always wished that there was a digital version. There's not. I went into grok and I took like, two hours of an evening, and I told it my entire layout of my planner and what I want it to look like on my desktop. And it built me a web app in like an hour. Wow. It gave me the JavaScript, the HTML, the CSS. I plugged it into a server, and it gave me a perfect app for planning my schedule out they integrated with my Google Calendar. They integrated my tasks. I'm not a software developer. I don't know anything about software, but I copy and pasted its code into a private server and created a web app in two hours. It's insane. So blocks great with stuff like that. Chat, CBT is getting better and better, but it largely it doesn't do extraordinarily well. Yet with like, creating images, although there are certain plugins that you can use to do that better, it's just great for is
• 9:09
  Dave Leake: chatbot the same as chat GPT, no different one. Chat bots actually very good at image generation, yes, but
• 9:15
  Will Host: that's a different part of it. Got it, yeah. And they're getting better and better, which is my, wait,
• 9:19
  Jeff Leake: wait, wait, I can tell them what kind of image I want, and it will create. So
• 9:24
  Dave Leake: I have, like, a chat bot app subscription so I can just, I can use as much as I want to use. I'm honestly this.
• 9:32
  Dave Leake: I got it because it's the most basic version, like, generally, it's decent about everything, but probably doesn't specialize.
• 9:38
  Dave Leake: Give me an image that you want to see created, just an idea,
• 9:42
  Jeff Leake: Chelsea Football Club winning the Champions League with Pastor
• 9:46
  Unknown: Jeff as the goalie.
• 9:49
  Jeff Leake: Okay, I did have this experience while you're typing that in, where David Rosenblum, who came to lead worship here at the Ignite conference in the green room, before one of the services, told one. Of these. I don't know which one to write a song about me, Emmy and the Chelsea Football Club. And then he tells the the genre of music, it was amazing, yeah, like, 10 seconds.
• 10:09
  Jeff Leake: It is amazing. It had written a country version, a rock version, yeah. I still have the one on my phone. I listen to it every once in a while, yeah. So it wrote a song, like a decent song, it does such
• 10:22
  Will Host: a good job. And that's all on, like, the the language side of things. So what's this image? Did it pop it
• 10:27
  Dave Leake: out yet? It's almost I, I'd substitute it with a priest as the goalie, because I feel like, oh, because I feel like it would know Pastor Jeff is maybe I'm not trusting in it enough. Okay,
• 10:36
  Unknown: so let's see the on the spot.
• 10:41
  Jeff Leake: Wow. So cartoon version, there's Oh, and then there's a picture version too.
• 10:43
  Jeff Leake: There's your picture version.
• 10:45
  Jeff Leake: Wow.
• 10:46
  Will Host: So it is remarkable, wow. And, okay, the thing about AI to use, like, a kind of tangential example, I feel like it's really hard sometimes to overcome, like, brand perception when something doesn't go right.
• 11:00
  Will Host: So you see this in cars, right?
• 11:03
  Will Host: Like, dodges have, like, this perception that's really hard for them to get over, that they're not reliable vehicles.
• 11:10
  Will Host: Sorry for anybody that owns a Dodge, right? They're just known for depression. Who knows that?
• 11:12
  Will Host: That's actually true for the cars on the line
• 11:17
  Dave Leake: dodging Ford, yeah, unless it's trucks. But I wouldn't either,
• 11:22
  Will Host: right? Because cars in the early 2000s and 2000 10s that are that they are known for, their transmission going bad, right? But if they fix that in the last couple of years, the perception is still there. Does that make sense? Totally so you're seeing that like crazy with AI, where somebody might have used chat GPT even six months ago, the chat G, P, T, you have now is entirely different, crazy the image models that somebody might have tried six months ago and say, Well, yeah, but it's not really good with, like, hands. That was the argument for the longest time. It doesn't do hands. Well, yeah, it does now,
• 11:51
  Dave Leake: does it really So Matt, our producer, showed me videos of footage, and the footage looks amazing until you see their hands, and it's scary.
• 11:58
  Dave Leake: Yeah, like, their hands are like, bending.
• 12:04
  Will Host: Why? Because it's combing the web for other examples, and it has billions of faces to pull from, and eyeballs and ears and but for whatever reason, there's not a lot of isolated hands for it to pull from, and it has a hard time.
• 12:17
  Will Host: But even that issue is being solved. Okay? So there's a lot of people that are like, Yeah, I can tell when it's AI, maybe, like, six months ago, not now.
• 12:24
  Will Host: You can let
• 12:27
  Dave Leake: me give a recommendation that that Matt producer, Matt showed us. What is it called the Bible through AI. What do you call it? The YouTube channel? Yeah, yeah.
• 12:37
  Dave Leake: Bible, AI. Bible, AI project.
• 12:37
  Dave Leake: You can link it. Okay, it is the craziest looking thing. It's all AI based images. Occasionally it's hilarious because it's like,
• 12:48
  Jeff Leake: that is so maybe produce a matt, if you can throw it on the screen for us at some point as we talk, you can look it
• 12:53
  Dave Leake: up. Just that trailer you showed where it was, like, it was the whole Bible, and it shows the Adam and Eve thing with the snake, and then it's Pharaoh. I'm talking about Matt that that trailer. Okay, we'll find this. This is, it's crazy. Okay, if you've never seen this wild. I we're gonna get into actual the tension of, how do we use this? And yes, maybe the impact that it's gonna have on the workforce industry, which is a little different than maybe how it will work in ministry, I think it's still gonna have a big impact. But I think the also we'll talk about all this, yeah, but I want to make sure we've, like, laid our base and found, do you feel like you have a better understanding?
• 13:29
  Dave Leake: Okay, so
• 13:30
  Jeff Leake: I just said this before we started the podcast. I know the least about this particular topic of any topic we've covered on the podcast. I will probably sit and listen to a lot of this and ask stupid questions for our oldie older audience members, in case that they're missing something. But you guys talk. I want to listen.
• 13:44
  Jeff Leake: Okay, so
• 13:46
  Will Host: I want to explain what I think the power of AI is because a lot of people are kind of using it in, like, cute little ways that slightly increase efficiency, right?
• 13:56
  Will Host: Like, like, Google searches.
• 13:56
  Will Host: That's, that's how I was using it exactly. I don't google search anything anymore, which we can get into a whole other thing about how that's going to reshape SEO and the Google landscape. Because I don't, I haven't Googled anything in like, three months. Okay? I have chat on my phone, and I actually, you know, Google stuff? No, I because chat has a i on the way here, I was just, I get super curious about things like in history or just
• 14:17
  Jeff Leake: chat an app, yeah, okay, I didn't know that, all right, so I use it to help me with creative sermon and Series titles. That's all I use it for so far, although I did use it in a sermon just recently, saying, You know what? What are the reasons for identity crisis? You gave me some. Anyway, I'm gonna try not
• 14:35
  Will Host: to take us off on tangent. But you're kind of a history guy, right? You told me, once you try to read books from every president, yeah? So you're you're you're thinking about a president, and you're curious about something, you can pull out your GPT app and be like, hey, J Edgar, Hoover, or whatever. When was he born, and what exactly did he do? J Edgar, it'll read it back to you tell you, like, think niche information about that person.
• 14:55
  Dave Leake: And sometimes it's, it's very wrong sometimes. But even
• 14:59
  Will Host: that, I want. I just want to challenge. Yes, it can be sure, but that's getting better and better. It is getting every month wrong. If it's pulling, can get dates, that's okay. It used to, and it still can. It's getting a lot better.
• 15:14
  Will Host: It used to, like, crush certain things, like, blow your mind, and then get like, oh, it's actually December 10, not December 7, you know, like, random little facts wrong, which is bad, sure, but yeah, that's also
• 15:28
  Dave Leake: as around Christmas time, I was preaching a sermon, and I was looking about, like, famous lighthouses, and it was like combining weird historical events that didn't happen together to, like, tell me so, like, what are some stories about a lighthouse that saved 1000s of lives because of, you know, like in a storm or whatever? And it would just like, pull it was, it was, it felt like an image generator. It was like pulling certain things from history and like combining them almost with a felt like fictional elements. And then it would tell me it's historical thing. So I'd be like, Okay, let me actually Google search this just to verify. And it's like, no, that never happened. Never happened. Like, this is what this was, what this was. So, so that was months ago. I get that it's improving quickly, yes, but that was my former experience, and I have noticed it, but until you told me like it's rapidly learning, I wouldn't have known it's upgrading that quickly.
• 16:19
  Dave Leake: Yeah. So
• 16:20
  Will Host: that's maybe one challenge. Is like, keep in mind that car analogy, the Dodge today might not be the Dodge of your father 10 years ago, who told you never to buy a Dodge.
• 16:27
  Will Host: That might not be true today, right? Especially for AI as it changes. I mean, there's a new learning language model within chat, GPT, 2.0 3.5 3.5 turbo, 4.0 there's all of these kind of upgrades that are happening all the time and making it better and better. So I was with you, like, I'm putting my head in the sand, like, this isn't going to do it. It's going to do it.
• 16:50
  Will Host: Yeah, I believe it's just a matter of time we have that video. Let's do
• 16:53
  Dave Leake: it. Do you want to quickly see this? Here we go.
• 16:57
  Dave Leake: This is all AI, oh,
• 17:03
  Jeff Leake: this is the Garden of Eden. If the Bible had a movie trailer, the Bible had a movie trailer. I
• 17:20
  Dave Leake: These aren't real actors. Just Just see, no doubt, this is all AI generated people.
• 17:45
  Dave Leake: I
• 18:15
  Jeff Leake: Wow,
• 18:17
  Will Host: it's remarkable. I Oh,
• 18:24
  Jeff Leake: come on, that's amazing. Isn't
• 18:29
  Will Host: that crazy? I almost have, like, a tear in my that's, yeah,
• 18:33
  Jeff Leake: no, really, let's go see that movie.
• 18:36
  Dave Leake: That's crazy. I think they have to do so much editing, though, because so then Matt was showing me other clips, and some of them are really funny, looking like, it's like, as their faces turn like, ooh, like, you know, like the head, I don't know, but, but that's
• 18:50
  Will Host: Oh, yeah, that would have cost like, $50,000 at
• 18:54
  Dave Leake: least more than that. That's probably in the millions. I mean,
• 18:57
  Will Host: crazy, yeah, even if you have to edit it a few times and it's like, oh, that got that face wrong, that looked weird, and you've got to regenerate it.
• 19:02
  Will Host: Like, still, holy crap.
• 19:05
  Jeff Leake: That's awesome.
• 19:05
  Jeff Leake: Seriously impressed. Yeah.
• 19:07
  Will Host: So, yeah, um, there's the little ways to use that that we can talk about, like, how it can help you outline a sermon, or take your sermons and break them down into bite sized pieces, or, you know, apply to other content. Yeah. So
• 19:19
  Jeff Leake: I just, I just saw that. So someone sent me an email saying, What are you doing this week to take your Easter sermon and use AI to generate follow up? What like messages in defense, images, social media, posts, those kind of things.
• 19:36
  Will Host: So there's a lot of power. Yeah, it is a sad day for Ghost Riders. It's a sad day for accommodators.
• 19:41
  Dave Leake: Okay, so, so,
• 19:43
  Jeff Leake: so let's leave this so much. So let's leave the FANBOY stage, and let's move into what are the hesitations?
• 19:49
  Jeff Leake: Wait, wait, wait, wait, well, or okay,
• 19:51
  Dave Leake: you take a stage.
• 19:51
  Dave Leake: Sorry, you can go first. Okay,
• 19:53
  Will Host: so I just want to explain this goes well beyond though, just using chat CPT, because there's a couple other foundations. Of elements that we're spending 1000s of dollars on right now as a company with developers and trying to build this out, because it goes well beyond just here's my sermon.
• 20:09
  Will Host: Create some notes out of it, or create a small group curriculum out of it. That stuff's easy. We can talk about it. The real power comes in when you're starting to create custom gpts, AI agents, and then, you know, make or in eight in workflows that build automations based off say that on layman's terms. So, right? I need to explain kind of, all of the the terminology real quickly. All right, a custom GPT is like a custom database where you're telling the learning language model not to pull from the web, but to pull from your own content. So this would be where you take every book you've ever written, you take the manuscripts, you give it some videos, it'll transcribe them. You give it sermon notes. It learns you, oh my. It learns your voice. It learns the way that you write, and then it generates content based off of that. And you can wait
• 20:54
  Jeff Leake: it so I could be dead and I could still be preaching 100%
• 20:58
  Will Host: and that's how the church that she uses an example in Texas, right? Yeah, that's what they did. They built a custom GPT based off of all their SOPs and FAQs and content that they've created. Sop meaning like a standard operating procedure that shows your voice and tonality all their
• 21:14
  Dave Leake: language they've ever written and documented.
• 21:16
  Dave Leake: They now have it integrated in this AI that is able to reproduce what they would say, yes. And
• 21:21
  Will Host: then the chat bot isn't pulling from the web, like chat GPT is. It's pulling from the custom database, the custom GPT, and then when they ask a question, it's pulling from those documents. And I won't mention his name, but there's a really big leader in America right now that created an app that's like, ask his name. It's just called that. And he uploaded all of his books, all of his content, whatever, and you just ask it for business advice, and then it will tell you what he would say, and he said with 99% accuracy. And it's in his voice, by the way, because that's gonna be aI generated in his voice, in his dictation, or in his addiction and tonality. Hey, I've got this much in EBITDA or profit. And I have this problem with an employee, what would you do? And it will tell you what he would do, and he says, that's exactly what I would say, wow. So that's where the power comes in. And then with these make models, what you can do is say, take from this database and do a long strand of automations. Because what chat is not great at what what AI is not great at is doing multiple tasks right now. But if you can tell it to do specific tasks through an agent, which is what an agent is, you're saying you do one thing only. You are an SEO agent, so your only job is to crawl my competitors websites or other church websites, bring back what long tail keywords they're using in their website, and tell me what what I'm not using in my website, that I can write content against, sure, or go do market research for me and bring back information that I should include in my blogs to reach my target market.
• 22:53
  Dave Leake: Essentially, it's boosting how easily it is to find you on the web by comparing to a lot of people doing that boost their their website
• 23:01
  Will Host: what I'm interested in, and I think this applies, I think this is where it actually most applies to churches, where it can bring operational efficiency, efficiency with the way that we create content. Is then you can take like five or six AI agents that are all doing specific tasks. You're an SEO agent, you're a market research agent, or a research agent for what we've hired
• 23:21
  Jeff Leake: you guys to do.
• 23:21
  Jeff Leake: Well,
• 23:25
  Will Host: it does freak me out.
• 23:25
  Will Host: Yes, it does. Yes, we'll put that on the shelf. No, you're exactly right. Then you have an agent that's you're a copywriter, you're a content writer, and then you create an agent that you're a proof reader, all you're doing is looking for historical inaccuracies, grammar errors or whatever. And what we can do, we've already got to make model build out that does this, we can take a spreadsheet of like 10 content ideas, feed it to an SEO agent, bring back long tail keywords that need to be included, write a blog article included with meta tags for SEO that from, you know, the first findings proof it, post it to the website, like 10 blogs in like maybe two minutes, and it can generate the images for us with dynamic content and backgrounds. It's, it's absolutely amazing. So that's how the church did that. Right is they're, they're creating these automated workflows, and that's where the power so here's
• 24:22
  Dave Leake: i There's one spot, spot I want to go. I'm sorry, I keep, like, shutting down. It's fine. No, no. But here, here's what I want to paint. Because I think the ethics and the question as far as how we use this, it's set up better if we start here when we look as far as where the world is going to go in five or 10 years, I like when you're thinking of the invention of the internet, or like, less or so smartphones.
• 24:43
  Dave Leake: Like, I remember being like, I'm never gonna need a smartphone.
• 24:45
  Dave Leake: You know what I mean, when I saw my flip phone, and then everybody has them. So I'm, I think it's easier to see the dilemmas and or not even dilemmas. It'll be opportunities as well. But the changing landscape that we're gonna have tension with, if we sort of project a little bit. So can you without, with, with using as little technical terminology as possible, like just paint what the job market might might look like, what, how this will affect everyday life? Does that make sense? Yeah,
• 25:12
  Will Host: I think things like proofing are going to become a lot easier. Things like even, even proofing contracts, it's extraordinarily what is proof in contracts, looking for discrepancies. It's not just grammar errors, like you can give it a pretty complex legal document and it'll tell you if there are contradictions or if your terms are right, and tell you what you should include to protect yourself. Okay, yep, so there's stuff like that. So again, it gets really good at projections. You can feed it like your financial statement, and ask it to run projections for you, and it will do a phenomenal job at running projections on how it thinks your tithe is going to do, or, you know, how the market might affect those types of things, or look for errors in the financial data, like it can do all of
• 25:56
  Dave Leake: the way students are doing homework right now are often they're having AI write book reports, and It's often pretty hard to catch those things. And so right now, it's being adapted into a lot of curriculums, like we it's like, some people think of it like a calculator. Like, before, I used to do everything long hand, you know what? I mean, like with the pencil. But now you can use calculator. So you're always going to have AI, let's incorporate. I mean, it seems like it's a global landscape.
• 26:17
  Dave Leake: Certain jobs are going to totally vanish if it keeps going this way, because it's going to automate certain processes. With all of that said, I think now I hope I didn't do a bad job with this. I'm trying to set it up in a where anybody can understand where we're going. Now, I think let's get into how does this affect the church world with less conceptual things like projections, but I'm talking about what pastors do, or what what Christians are gonna in general this. Do you understand what I'm saying?
• 26:48
  Will Host: Yeah. So I have four church examples of of how they're using AI, okay, right?
• 26:50
  Will Host: And AI got this for me, and I confirmed it. Okay. So Life dot church, for example, they have implemented AI in their You Version Bible app to create custom, specific Bible plans for you based off of AI, right? So no longer is dependent on people like us. We just did a you version curriculum. We had to write it. We had to go to the studio film it. That a lot of that stuff might not change, but we created that specific Bible plan for specific purpose.
• 27:18
  Will Host: They're developing this out with AI, where you can plug in what you want to know, and it's developing this plan for you on the spot. That's a huge implication. So it's customizable, yeah, and I can see that going into small group curriculum where, you know, we're not having to go out and find it, we can literally develop it ourselves with AI like that. You know, you want something on divorce A's and what the Bible has to say about your future done. So
• 27:41
  Jeff Leake: it's speed, that's one thing you gain, and it's a greater, higher of quality, quality in terms of analysis, or, yeah, or accuracy in terms of the
• 27:53
  Dave Leake: weird thing is, you just saw that that video. So when it starts to be able to write content and it can make images that quickly you can develop video teachings that are with an AI generated person, 100% I
• 28:05
  Will Host: mean, and we know we were working with a company that is that their whole idea was the Bible on Tiktok. Yeah, they were gonna do the whole Bible. And I forget what, how it matches up, but it's like, you know, a two minute Tiktok clip a day, two of them a day. You can have the whole Bible, and that was going to be like, millions of dollars to film all the stuff and to write all the stuff, where this could probably do it like, in a matter of a couple months.
• 28:28
  Jeff Leake: It's crazy. So do you think there'll be a a counter reaction to this? Like this will become so common, this imagery and everything that people are like, so that people are sort of like, I'm so tired of that age. I generated stuff.
• 28:41
  Jeff Leake: I want a real human being. I like, it's hard to tell the difference, because, okay, you can play that for me. I'm in awe that it's wonderful. But 10 years from now, won't be in awe of that anymore. No, true, right? I'll be like, Okay, I've seen that already. That's 10 years
• 28:53
  Will Host: from now, it's going to be exponentially better. But how
• 28:56
  Jeff Leake: much better can the special effects of a video get to where it qualitatively changes my life. It might mean, but you might not be like, I might actually find myself saying I want to unplug from this because I want face to face, real relationships. Well,
• 29:12
  Will Host: I think that won't change. I think the face to face stuff will change. You know,
• 29:16
  Jeff Leake: even like, Okay, I You laughed. I said, don't we hire you for that. But in some places, I would rather have a human Do you know what I mean?
• 29:22
  Jeff Leake: Okay, maybe not proofreading, unless the proofreader is somebody that I enjoy interacting with, because out of their creativity comes something. You know what I mean?
• 29:34
  Will Host: Yeah, and I don't think that'll that'll be removed, but like in that case, with your proofreader, rather than spending 50% of the time proofreading the
• 29:42
  Jeff Leake: conversations about something else. Oh, that's done.
• 29:44
  Jeff Leake: So It specializes even the human interaction. Yeah, I
• 29:47
  Will Host: think a term that you're going to hear a lot more is like prompt engineer. I think companies and organizations are going to have more prompt engineers. And that's we just learned to work with it. Because one very important principle about AI, the. Output is only as good as the input, and it's not as simple as asking it something. You got to know how to ask it, what, how to give it as proper parameters, because that will greatly determine the output. And so people are going to get good at learning how to work with the machine.
• 30:13
  Jeff Leake: Okay, so how? So should preachers who preach the word become prompt engineers for their sermons? Yeah, when it comes to research. Okay, research. So let's, let's dive into this piece. Should a preacher preach an AI generated message? Well, that's really
• 30:29
  Dave Leake: easy to write an AI generated message, and I think that's happening in a lot of places now, because
• 30:33
  Jeff Leake: for me, that seems like I'm crossing the line. Now I think it is cross okay.
• 30:38
  Dave Leake: Why though? Okay, so let's, let's, let's now get into theology. When it comes to this, I think that so, so when it comes to answering questions, if we're just, if we're doing teachings, that's from, you know, we're going to, we're going to go through all the points, you know, in the book of Mark, major themes, we're going to talk about the history of it.
• 31:01
  Dave Leake: AI can generate information really well. But there, I think that there is a sense AI is not able to have an interaction with God the way that the human spirit can. There's always going to be a different level of creativity. Is not even just the right word, anointing.
• 31:19
  Jeff Leake: Yes, right? Holy Spirit, leadering, leadership, yeah, because filling in the
• 31:24
  Dave Leake: blank, the LLM thing, I
• 31:26
  Jeff Leake: prophesy for you, you can't, because that's a spiritual
• 31:29
  Dave Leake: it can project based on historical events, but it can't hear from God the way that the human spirit until
• 31:37
  Jeff Leake: it becomes human,
• 31:41
  Will Host: okay? But I think it can maybe be a mix of both, like so and I'm not a preacher, I'm not a pastor, but I think when you're building out a sermon, yes, and I do for God behind bars when we're there, so I think one of the most important cornerstones of your sermon is that sort of nugget of revelation that you have for that topic. If you feel like you read something in the word stood out to you and you're like, Oh man, that's really good. I want to teach on that Sure. And so the last time, sorry to disappoint you, the last time I spoke at God behind bars, a couple months ago, I had chat CBT write out some of my outline, but I gave it what I thought was the revelation I'd received from the word regarding a particular passage totally. So what that enabled me to do is say, Hey, I saw this verse in a new light, and I want to preach on this. I think it's super good. Gave it all the things.
• 32:29
  Will Host: Can you bring me some scriptural references in the Old Testament?
• 32:32
  Will Host: Can you bring me a couple of illustration examples and outline this in a five point sermon, or whatever it did remarkably well based off of that nugget of truth, okay? And so crazy. It did some of the heavy lifting of, like, going back into the Old Testament and finding some of those references. I was able to say, I know there's a verse somewhere that says something like this, boom, it pulled it up and drew those references for me. So now I can spend my time rather than looking for it like, like, digging more into that nugget of truth. You know, so if you didn't have to spend your time doing cross reference and validation and all those things which you just kept digging in, or you at least let those illustrations kind of try to
• 33:11
  Jeff Leake: muscle you, do you develop, though, from having to dig that's true. I that is true.
• 33:14
  Jeff Leake: And I mean, like, it's almost like you can become so so so serviced by that, that you don't learn what it is to wrestle Well,
• 33:27
  Will Host: that ought to be the whole door. That's going to be the same for everybody. It's going to make people stupid. I It really is. Well, so, so the
• 33:34
  Dave Leake: counter I agree with you on this topic. The counter argument would be, be, there's a muscle you develop when you do long form division, as opposed to using a calculator, like you do start, or when you research something in a concordance, as opposed to Google, Google searching it like we're already using stuff that's making those mental muscles weaker. But
• 33:53
  Jeff Leake: I'm not yes, and I'm not sure that's been good. I don't know
• 33:56
  Dave Leake: that but, but where I don't like with what I
• 33:58
  Jeff Leake: mean, I'm not going back, yeah, sure. Like, I'm gonna keep using Google. I'm not gonna go back to my concordance.
• 34:04
  Jeff Leake: I'm just not sure I like the effect that it has, especially if it continues that way.
• 34:08
  Dave Leake: I agree. Okay, so will what I think you did. I would, I would consider a lot of those parts to be research. Now if I probably wouldn't want to take the AI's five points, because for me, like the language, I've been writing sermons for you know, I think, I guess, 12 years, and preaching most most weeks. So there's, like, the language matters, the logic. Like, you can have a great sermon, but it might be different than what I feel like.
• 34:36
  Jeff Leake: What if it had typed in all of your previous writings and sermons so that it sounded like you, yeah, so that's the part that you just added a feature to it. I would almost feel ethically that I would need to stand up and say this sermon was co written by me, AI and the Holy Spirit, almost like in every message you say. By the way, this message is completely original. It wasn't nothing generated this other than my own interaction with God or Yeah, is, are people going to become so adapt to it that they just would assume, yeah, I think they will so. So for people who are hearers, it's not an ethical quandary,
• 35:14
  Will Host: yeah, because I use logos, I imagine right to some extent, do you guys use logos?
• 35:18
  Will Host: Think about how much time that saves you absolutely going in you don't have, I mean, it's an insane amount of information.
• 35:27
  Dave Leake: Logos is a Bible software that can pull up
• 35:30
  Jeff Leake: commentary, commentaries
• 35:32
  Will Host: in Hebrew words, and you don't have to give a disclaimer that me and logos wrote this true, because who cares? It makes you look brilliant when you're like, Well, you know. And so the Greek. Yeah, exactly, yeah,
• 35:43
  Dave Leake: right, you know, like, here's my issue, though, here's my issue. So right now, I would say the the method of sermon writing that I am in personally, that feels like it is so much better than I've been in before. Off if I could, and this is the way I probably wrote for five, seven years. It's like I would get a ghetto idea, maybe a verse, and I have that as the core, and then I'm like, grinding and writing, and I'm building out and praying it through, and then it gets done.
• 36:10
  Dave Leake: Often I would hit these sort of, like, writer's block moments, and I'm like, Ah, where do I want to go? And I'm like, pushing, and I'm pushing, and then I'm like, Okay, this feels good. Now what I do, I I feel like I often hit a moment where I'm like, where do I want to go with this? And I I've learned I have to pause, and I have to just like, worship for a little bit, and I have to pray and let it simmer and settle. And then I'm like, Oh, this is this. So to me, it often feels like this is actually new revelation that my previous voice couldn't have written, because it's not something I would have said.
• 36:42
  Dave Leake: It's not like a me generated thing. It feels like I'm like, oh, you know, I've never really thought about this passage in this light, but I think this is what God's saying. And for North side this weekend, like, this is a whole like, most of my messages are, like, probably 50% Like, legitimately, time wise me pausing, taking prayer walks, and then I come back when I feel like I have a little more and they're still the same build in terms of the like, logical progression most of the time, little tweaks here and there, but the voice sounds different.
• 37:09
  Dave Leake: So what I feel concerned about for me, like, if it's just writing, then I of course it could do that. But I don't feel like what I'm doing is just writing. I feel like I'm listening. You know what I mean?
• 37:19
  Dave Leake: Do? I don't know that you can replace
• 37:22
  Jeff Leake: it. That's a good that's a good point. Because unless
• 37:25
  Dave Leake: I can hear from the Holy Spirit for me, which I don't, I can't even imagine how that would ever work. I guess, never say, Never, no, but you stretched me a
• 37:33
  Jeff Leake: little just by what you said. Like I, I, I probably would have been more adverse to input in the in the sermon, crafting part than what I than what you just explained. So I'm willing to admit that I'm, I'm, like, behind the learning curve on this. Probably everybody is.
• 37:50
  Jeff Leake: I think most people are. But like, I'm way behind because of my age and my adaptive ability at this age to technology. So what I don't want to do, because this is what happens oftentimes with older generations, is that we tend to brand anything we don't understand is evil. Do you know what I mean? And so I think we have to, we my generation, have to have the humility to allow for this to emerge with people who are leading the way and trying to figure out how to adapt it without immediately reacting to it as inferior or an imposter or whatever.
• 38:25
  Dave Leake: A lot of my generations react in that way too, though, like, AI sucks.
• 38:27
  Dave Leake: Like, this is
• 38:30
  Jeff Leake: because, because it does change for them too. Yeah, it's happening so fast. Yes, like,
• 38:35
  Dave Leake: like, Gen alpha and Gen Z, probably it's just, like, it's just a part of the flow of time, and they're never gonna think of anything different. I am a cut off. Where and you, how old are you? 31 okay, I'm 34 you're probably there with me where it's, like, it's an intentional effort, like, I I actually think you're not that far behind. I think a lot of people are where you are, and that I'm trying to, you know, educate myself. So I don't, you know, get there too, but so I think that's, I guess I'm saying, I think that's really common, yeah, you know, and
• 39:06
  Will Host: I would be there too if my livelihood didn't
• 39:10
  Jeff Leake: depend. Let me ask this question, if I, if I can't, please, what's the dangers to society? Because, you know, I always say, AI is either, you know, this huge global event that's going to terrify everything and take over, or it's y 2k y 2k which was in my generation, everyone expected that, you know, when we changed the calendar to four digits, that all computers would shut down. And we actually, I actually found a tape in my old collection of of tapes from here, Allison Park. We had a whole night of planning at Allison Park on what to do when the world shuts down. You come to the church. Here's where you get your supplies, seriously. So we were prepared for COVID.
• 39:50
  Jeff Leake: Basically what became COVID. We were prepared for that. And then we all woke up on New Year's Day and it was like nothing happens like AI. Yeah, is a, i, y, 2k, it's like, it's this evil thing that's gonna like, well, you want to telling me that these two different AIS were assigned to talk to each other, and within like, a day, they created their own language, and they were speaking to each other, or something
• 40:14
  Will Host: like that. No, I didn't tell you that. That is true. Yeah? So like,
• 40:17
  Jeff Leake: all of a sudden they're gonna, like, a movie, this evil thing is going to come and they're going to decide what's best for the human race and kill us all. Like, is that, is that, are we looking at something that's no thing, like, it's just all hype, all the days, the
• 40:32
  Dave Leake: internet is what I think the most comparable thing is,
• 40:36
  Jeff Leake: just probably multiplied. Okay, so the Internet has a lot of good and a lot of really bad, but it isn't gonna be the end of all humanity. I don't think
• 40:43
  Will Host: it's gonna be the end of all humanity. I know he's extremely politically charged right now, but Elon Musk talked about this really, really well, and his most optimistic view is 80% chance that this is gonna be not detrimental for humanity.
• 40:59
  Will Host: Okay, so the 20% chance that we are literally like in a on a path toward the Terminator. You know?
• 41:06
  Jeff Leake: Well, let's just say why 2k was way more like 8020 the other way, everyone was convinced the word sure y, 2k everyone thought the world
• 41:14
  Will Host: was ending where it's going to be detrimental is people are going to lose their jobs. Copywriters, I think, proofreaders, a lot of administrative tasks. I wonder
• 41:24
  Dave Leake: if it was like court typer people that are, yep, say, I can do it right. I can do it which so, by
• 41:29
  Jeff Leake: the way, will we stop learning languages too? I saw somebody had like, a deal in their ear, and they went into a different country, and everything that was said got interpreted, yeah, remarkably fast, so that they had, it was like having a a translator in your head, yes, which
• 41:43
  Will Host: actually did the time out right there. One of the key ways that I think churches can implement this is with language translation. Oh, they can take your sermon and translate it like pretty immediately into whatever language. So you could set up, kind of like rooms, like we have for moms or whatever.
• 41:58
  Will Host: You set up rooms where you could go in, by the way,
• 42:00
  Jeff Leake: about a year ago now, Johannes paid to have a version of himself created. What do you call that an avatar?
• 42:08
  Jeff Leake: Yeah, so that it could take his books and translate them into Swahili, yeah, so he could teach in Swahili, which he said was kind of a risky thing back then, because then it could be counterfeited, and he could be made to say things that he didn't really say, like, anybody's gonna do that? It still was, like, very, like, robotic. It didn't have a flow.
• 42:28
  Jeff Leake: But technically, could not be the case too. Yeah, it could take my sermon and translate it into every language on Earth, like, literally
• 42:35
  Will Host: right now, so easily.
• 42:35
  Will Host: And so we work for another nonprofit, and they translate materials all over the place, and it used to be a whole big, long process. You got to find somebody in that region and with that native tongue to translate whatever it is, whether it be a book or whatever. So we
• 42:51
  Jeff Leake: have the revival Church International, which is a Swahili speaking congregation. I could preach a sermon on video, yes, have it translated in Swahili and on the screen everything, and they would be able to understand me 100%
• 43:03
  Will Host: now, yes, like we developed a custom software to help with this customer, and we were able to take our E courses, books, whatever it might be, and we can plug it into this software, and line by line, it translates it into whatever You want, Mandarin Kumai for the Cambodians, whatever.
• 43:22
  Will Host: Immediately, producer Matt
• 43:23
  Dave Leake: had a had a projection of what he thinks this is going to do to the world. If you've seen wall Yeah,
• 43:30
  Jeff Leake: no, explain it to Wally. You never
• 43:32
  Dave Leake: seen the Pixar movie. This robot right here, and the humans are all fat, super fat. They just float around on these seats that take them everywhere, keep them perpetually entertained and stuff, or maybe, and they're stupid, they're
• 43:45
  Jeff Leake: really, really dumb, or the matrix would be another Yeah,
• 43:48
  Dave Leake: well, that feels, I mean, you could see, you could see how it get there really easily. Yes, okay, so, so let's, can we assume that this episode is coming after the one we just recorded? Yes, okay, all right.
• 43:58
  Dave Leake: So then, so already been announced, but I'm obviously planning a church in Jacksonville, Florida. Here's one of the things that I've had, a big question that I've been ineffectively researching, that maybe you can help. And I think this is probably a question that's more for leaders, like, what are immediate things that, without special skills, can be automated, that would be helpful for productivity, for for any kind of leader, but I'm thinking specifically for me as a church planter, like, or, or for you Dad, like, what? What are some things right now that you're like, hear suggestions without having the skills to what did you call them a prompt engineer, or to build your own software to automate your voice? Like, what can somebody do now? Or what are ideas that you've seen or used that would help boost productivity efficiency, you know, help with leadership, some things people wouldn't be thinking of. Yeah.
• 44:49
  Will Host: So if I was starting from nothing, I would start to look for technology like it.
• 44:51
  Will Host: Sorry to use another term, like in my CRM. Every church has a CRM, whether it be like Planning Center or something, to track where CRM. Is a, like a customer relationship management tool,
• 45:02
  Dave Leake: okay? So it's a database that keeps all the information of the people that
• 45:05
  Will Host: go to church, and finding one that integrates well with AI so that it can automate first time guest experiences and emails and all that kind of stuff. You don't that all that can be automated now, yeah, completely automated for you market research. How many people are in this town? And you're, I'm sure the network's gonna provide you with some of that stuff, but you can stuff, but you can do it yourself. Sure, with a you can say, hey, I'm going to Jacksonville. How many people are in Jacksonville? How many people are in Jacksonville?
• 45:29
  Will Host: They're between ages of 25 and 35 how many people are in this particular zip code? You know?
• 45:33
  Will Host: What are the issues historically with this zip code
• 45:38
  Dave Leake: that can do that all Well, right now, yes, oh, wow, crazy. You got to use the right
• 45:42
  Will Host: LLM there. Some of them are different. You know, I found LLM learning language model. Okay. Chat GPT is not all there is sure about AI, there's multiple chat GPT.
• 45:53
  Jeff Leake: Can we put in the show notes? Uh, producer Matt, the things that will had mentioned, the other ones, would you call them?
• 45:59
  Will Host: Grok? Grok, that's, that's Elon's, and then Claude is another one that's super good.
• 46:05
  Jeff Leake: You know, what's really scary to me is that Elon Musk, who's so maybe the smartest man alive today, says there's a 20% chance this could be really bad. I'm gonna have a hard time sleeping today.
• 46:17
  Will Host: It's not hard to imagine. I mean, look at how much has happened in the last year.
• 46:21
  Jeff Leake: Yeah, it's like, what aim weapon systems at us and blow us the piece? Who knows, start a
• 46:26
  Will Host: virus or who knows?
• 46:26
  Will Host: That's really creepy, and is really creepy.
• 46:32
  Jeff Leake: I mean, I'd rather be the fat kid in the wall to the matrix. Wally, right? You've never seen Wally. I don't think I holds like, who doesn't fall?
• 46:39
  Jeff Leake: I stopped watching kids movies when I stopped having kids that you still had kids at
• 46:45
  Dave Leake: the time. This is like 20 years ago. I probably, anyways, so
• 46:48
  Will Host: another thing with launching, you're gonna want to launch with a lot of materials too, right? To start getting the name out there, yourself out there, establishing yourself as a thought leader, as a spiritual leader, in a town you've not really ever been in, right? You know, we're gonna help you with some of the brand stand up and stuff like
• 47:03
  Dave Leake: that. But you're gonna be my sensei, my AI.
• 47:05
  Dave Leake: Sensei, AI,
• 47:06
  Will Host: can help you get so much further. You could go in there with books and, yeah, you know, all kinds of Bible reading plans and small group curriculum, and just smash it from the answer.
• 47:15
  Dave Leake: We go, Yeah, I can't wait. We're going full, uh, what do they say? Full arms, live or whatever. I can't remember the term, can't wait. Yeah, okay, so I feel like, I feel like there's gonna be, over the next several years, a bunch of topics that are like this that probably become like, I don't know if ethical questions is the right word, but things to work through, because this is a brand new piece of technology. I feel a little dry, though, like so I think I get this better than what I did before. Is there anything that's on either of your minds, like concerns, big questions, you know, opportunities that feel like, Do you know what I'm saying, especially from a church perspective?
• 47:56
  Jeff Leake: So I would just say, I wonder if Allison Park leadership network could be a thought leader in this way, in that would it be possible for us to create a site on our web page with some a quick tutorial, tutorial in five or 10 basic ways you could use AI to benefit your church? Is that out there somewhere? Maybe just,
• 48:19
  Will Host: I mean, I'm sure it's out there, but we could create it ourselves, and it could literally for
• 48:23
  Jeff Leake: us that actually might be worth a worthy objective coming out of this, and then maybe, I don't know further, so we have a lot of people who listen to this who aren't pastors or leading anything. They're just church members. What? What could a, what could an everyday person who's trying to make, let's say, build their faith. Is there any ways that this AI thing, could you mentioned a couple, like a customized program or how to read the Bible? Is there anything that you would say this could help you spiritually, or this might help you in your career, or anything like that?
• 48:58
  Jeff Leake: Yeah,
• 48:58
  Will Host: and I think it's just reiterating to the things and maybe expounding a little bit.
• 49:01
  Will Host: So church home, for example, has a pastor bought that is what is church home. Church home is Judah Smith. Judas Okay, okay, Judas Smith, all his sermons, all his books, whatever you can ask Judah, anything you want.
• 49:16
  Will Host: Okay, so his voice, but it's not him, you know. So it's like, Judah, man, I'm struggling with shame. What do you have to say about that? And he would tell you what he said about it from his past sermon. So I mean, that's that sounds crazy, but people are doing it for me. So you're
• 49:29
  Jeff Leake: saying it might be good for for the church to try to find out tools we should
• 49:34
  Dave Leake: just make you a pastor bot. You have like 100% almost 40 years of messages at this point that would be really easy to plug into something.
• 49:39
  Dave Leake: Yeah,
• 49:42
  Will Host: ask pastor Jeff.
• 49:42
  Will Host: Okay, we should do it, and it'll probably extremely accurate, but there's that. And then I like what I often do. Like if I've got something on my mind, or if I'm struggling with something, or want to build my faith in a certain area, like sowing and reaping and giving or something like that, I'll tell it where I.
• 49:57
  Will Host: Like, I'm deficient or whatever, and it'll just give me back some Bible verses to be meditating on. I didn't have to go find them. It's just like, all right, you want to strengthen your faith in the area of sowing and reaping and with your generosity. Here's some verses to begin.
• 50:12
  Jeff Leake: Do you think it's going to hit the medical field at all? Oh, yeah. Like, you could say, Hey, this is my body shape and body type in my blood test deals, I want to know what the best diet plan is for
• 50:23
  Will Host: me. That's already happening. That is already entire companies that are doing that exactly. In fact, I just read an article on how so AI customizable
• 50:31
  Jeff Leake: to you that would help you become better and, in general, slap my hand, but I wanted to eat something bad.
• 50:37
  Unknown: Well, that's a good
• 50:39
  Jeff Leake: question. Bet that hand
• 50:41
  Unknown: the Terminator, yeah, builds itself a body.
• 50:46
  Jeff Leake: Exactly. No,
• 50:47
  Will Host: there was an article, it's using AI now that they can detect like breast cancer and women like way earlier. Wow, way, way, way, way, way that
• 50:56
  Jeff Leake: you told me in 1975 when I was 11 years old, that this world would exist would have been hard for me to even conceive, let alone just having a phone in my hand that operates like a computer, which wasn't even anything I knew about at the time, at 75 and so, like, it's just so so hard people older than me that are listening to this, I know that you have to be like, what is happening to our world so crazy. Things are moving so fast well,
• 51:21
  Will Host: and if I can give one more critique of it, because I came in wanting to push on the AI to make sure that, like, people don't build false perceptions of it. It's going to change every month. You got to get on the bandwagon. You just have to where it's going to hurt is critical thinking, logic skills. We already suck at that.
• 51:35
  Will Host: Applied
• 51:38
  Dave Leake: Research, yeah, it does research for you, but actually taking and using it well is really different, yeah,
• 51:44
  Will Host: and just those critical thinking skills on, you know, it's like what you said about strengthening the muscle, about knowing where to go in the Bible, or, you know how to draw correlations properly. That's true for everybody. Like if, if it's automating all of that as great as giving us 50% of our time back it is we're going to be extremely in our watch, because
• 52:04
  Jeff Leake: that picture of the fat kids put it back up there for us. Producer Matt from Wally the movie, like spiritually, or as a in your study of the Scripture, or even in the way that you approach perseverance in your faith, you could, I could see how very quickly we become that,
• 52:22
  Dave Leake: and what that doesn't do for you. It doesn't build emotional resilience.
• 52:24
  Dave Leake: Yeah? So like, if you if you don't develop certain muscles, then yeah, the anxiety and depression crisis that we're in is only going to
• 52:34
  Jeff Leake: spike having all the right answers to your mental health issues doesn't give you mental health. No, it doesn't.
• 52:39
  Jeff Leake: It actually, you have to actually make some choices and build character. No one can do that for you.
• 52:44
  Dave Leake: So Jordan, now we're just having this conversation.
• 52:46
  Dave Leake: He's teaching, uh, prison epistles right now in the Allison spark leadership, leadership academy. He was just like, it's weird, because when we went to school in 2010 like you, you could Google some stuff. Most stuff wasn't on the internet for this like so we had a whole massive library, Bible resources. It's like, now somebody can just, you know, ask everything about, yeah, the book of Mark, and you'll get when it was written in, you know, all of his themes and, you know, critical articles on and whatever. And he was like, Do we even need to go to college for this anymore? And I was like, well, so you can find the information way quicker, but the applying it and using it correctly
• 53:22
  Jeff Leake: and integrating it into your own thoughts,
• 53:25
  Dave Leake: yeah, like there, there are some things that are going to be irreplaceable, spiritual warfare,
• 53:31
  Jeff Leake: tearing down strongholds, memorizing Scripture, none of that's AI.
• 53:32
  Jeff Leake: It's got to be you.
• 53:36
  Will Host: Totally sorry you keep going. Well, no, no, this is so good. Um, so like in some of my circles, I have leaders that are really big on just give me the bullet points, right?
• 53:46
  Will Host: Rather than read a book, I want the Cliff Notes. Just give me the biggest things. AI can do that really well. But there's still something to reading a novel, even if it's got one good nugget, like the way it makes you feel, the way it makes you think, the way it makes you introspect, and, you know, question things like, it's a
• 54:03
  Jeff Leake: movie trailer of the Bible is not just the same as the Bible, right? That example that I
• 54:09
  Will Host: gave where I, you know, I was deficient in my faith in an area, and I asked it to give me five scriptures that was great for that day. Does it compare to me? Like, I want to know what God has to say about this. I want to dig through his word for it, right? No, there's no way that can replace that digging and reading. You
• 54:26
  Jeff Leake: know, maybe what just differentiates us as people of excellence in the future is those that choose to build the muscles. What do you call them?
• 54:33
  Jeff Leake: The the applied research muscle, yeah, right. Logical thinking, the logic and critical thinking muscle, the the resilience muscle, the endurance muscle, the, you know, this empathy muscle, like all of those things are going to still be maybe they'll be more important in the future, because they'll be more rare. The
• 54:55
  Will Host: scary thing, though, is that as this humanity, we are not particularly disciplined.
• 54:58
  Will Host: And already, and it's going to be harder and harder and harder to do that, because you're going to go against the grain to do that, because it's going to be so easy to go the easy route, that makes sense, which is
• 55:09
  Jeff Leake: why I can almost see sort of a prophetic movement of rebellion against this. Oh, I hope that'd be great. Like I can see people like they used to move to the desert and live in a cave and the plastics, yeah, or the Amish who say we will not use any technology. I can almost see reaching a place where people say, I don't want this world anymore. I want to go back to something much more human.
• 55:29
  Jeff Leake: And
• 55:34
  Will Host: I hope that's the case in the business world, where right now, you can increase your click through rates on like, ads, headlines and stuff, just by putting the the word AI in, it's so, so driven right now. So AI driven solutions, whatever, wherever you're at putting that in your headline increases click throughs and
• 55:53
  Dave Leake: sure you already know that, but put it in the headline,
• 55:58
  Will Host: I hope in the future, you're going to see that flip and it's like, human, centered, whatever. Yeah,
• 56:04
  Jeff Leake: I don't see that. I would love that I could see that, yeah, because I feel that even now, like a part of me, inside of me, says I don't that I want this, like, I do want it, but I don't know that I want all of it, and I'm not sure what I like it's gonna like, what I think it's gonna do. Here's
• 56:19
  Dave Leake: the thing. Here's the thing, well, every time something like this happens, there's just different supplements to take for deficiencies. So there's just going to be different needs the church is going to be meeting, because AI could be bad, will be bad for character, in many ways.
• 56:33
  Dave Leake: But I think what we focus on, the way we talk about it, it's just going to have to be different supplements to build, you know, Jesus lifestyle, where AI wants to cheat some of those things. So And can
• 56:45
  Will Host: I ask you one more question? I know we're going to get Yeah, time we can cut this off if we want, but I want to ask you a provoking question, why couldn't AI save someone?
• 56:55
  Will Host: Why couldn't AI? I
• 56:56
  Jeff Leake: guess they could. I guess it was a choice of the church to say we prefer this then, to be a human interaction.
• 57:03
  Jeff Leake: And
• 57:03
  Will Host: what's your take on that, if we had a bot, if we're 612, months in the future, and we do ask pastor Jeff or whatever, and your bot self is leading people to Jesus.
• 57:14
  Jeff Leake: So I think if you think of salvation only as a transactional moment, that's probably possible. But if you think of as it a discipleship journey, you need a human for that,
• 57:26
  Dave Leake: yeah? But the thing that so that I've been thinking about this since our conversation at Longhorn, the salvation moment could occur.
• 57:32
  Dave Leake: Could on a bot, and then you could pass out somebody for discipleship. There's definitely
• 57:39
  Jeff Leake: going to be, yeah, yeah, I guess.
• 57:42
  Dave Leake: Well, you were, I think it could say the right things, but there is a certain human to human interaction, yeah, that is gonna need a physical presence. It's not
• 57:51
  Jeff Leake: the greatest conversion story. It's really was in my basement and I was talking to the bot. Well, it sounds bad
• 57:56
  Will Host: now. Tracks get people saved. I'm
• 58:01
  Jeff Leake: traveling. Is, I'm probably having an old fashioned reaction to it.
• 58:05
  Dave Leake: I have that reaction internally. But I'm like, Well, if that's going to spread the Gospel, yeah,
• 58:11
  Jeff Leake: and but I get why the church would say pass that off to us, because we want to handle I did too. I'm not saying that it's not possible. It may be preferred for it to be a human to human.
• 58:22
  Unknown: Totally. Yeah, yep.
• 58:22
  Unknown: Okay, thank you.
• 58:24
  Dave Leake: That's really good.
• 58:24
  Dave Leake: Yeah, I think this is a brain, like a painful brain exercise for me, because I feel like there's so many projections that go out from here. But one thing I sort of will say in closing is I think that that because this is such a thing, and it's really in its infancy. I mean, if we're talking about the scope of the lifetime of this, I do think your idea for pastors and for Christians of how we can use this as as Christians in an effective way to kind of stay with the flow of the world could be a really effective tool right now for churches like, maybe we kind of get in a flow where the Holy Spirit gives a grace and anointing, you know, I mean, for pastors to reach people more effectively. And I think regardless as to what happens, even in that 20% Elon Musk scenario, like, we have to trust that God is working through this and that he's, you know, he's gonna bring something out of this. So I, I don't know it's my brain hurts, but, but I do trust that God's God's in the middle of
• 59:26
  Jeff Leake: all of it. Thank you, man, yeah. And again, if you want to find out more about what and Doc does currently, we don't know what it will do in the future
• 59:37
  Dave Leake: before they become prompt engineers.
• 59:41
  Jeff Leake: No, seriously, will has been an incredible asset to Allison Park Church and dosha and D, O, C, I, a.com, can't recommend it highly enough. So thank you for being on this episode. Appreciate
• 59:53
  Dave Leake: it, and thank you for listening. Glad that you're always a part of this conversation. If you're a regular listener, if you're new, we just want. To give a big shout out to you and say thanks for jumping on to be part of the Allison Park leadership podcast, family and we would love if you could help us out. You can do a couple of things. You can like and subscribe on YouTube, share it with a friend, leave us a five star review. All that helps us to share the word what we're doing. So we appreciate you guys. We'll see you guys again next time you.