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What Happens When It All Connects | ONE Journey Ending Fragmentation in Specialty Care with CassianRx · Pharmacy Podcast Network

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  Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession. Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome to One Journey, Ending Fragmentation in Specialty Care, sponsored
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  Speaker 2: by Cassian Rx. In this special series, we bring you
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  Speaker 2: experts on specialty care and dive into the stages of
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  Speaker 2: the specialty patient journey. We break down the whys and
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  Speaker 2: hows of fragmentation and offer you insights and solutions on
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  Speaker 2: how to fix it. We will cover enrollment and onboarding,
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  Speaker 2: treatment access, ongoing support and adherence, and more. Join us
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  Speaker 2: on this episode of One Journey.
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  Speaker 3: We continue the one journey.
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  Speaker 1: This is a special episode.
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  Speaker 3: Three-part series brought to us by Cassian RX, One Journey.
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  Speaker 3: What happens when it all connects?
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  Speaker 1: So excited. Guess what?
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  Speaker 3: We are recording live here at the Inspire 2026, the NASP.
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  Speaker 1: Chris, it's so good to see you.
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  Speaker 4: Hey, Todd.
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  Speaker 5: Good to see you as well. Excited for our special
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  Speaker 5: guest today.
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  Speaker 3: I am, and they are special to the Pharmacy Podcast
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  Speaker 3: Network as well. Old-timey podcasters.
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  Speaker 1: Eric Huckins, what's up?
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  Speaker 4: Hey, Todd. How are you?
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  Speaker 3: Ben Heiser.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show.
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  Speaker 4: Of course. Thanks for having us, Todd.
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  Speaker 1: All right.
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  Speaker 3: Lumicera Health Services has been a special sponsor of the
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  Speaker 3: Pharmacy Podcast Network over the years, and now you're part
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  Speaker 3: of this special series. Hey, we are talking about ending
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  Speaker 3: fragmentation in specialty pharmacy care. This is a brief overview.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to lay out the series and how it
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  Speaker 3: actually fits into other aspects of managing our specialty pharmacies.
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  Speaker 3: I'm turning things over to our host today.
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  Speaker 1: Chris, take it away.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So, you know, looking at the whole ecosystem end to end, right?
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  Speaker 5: We have the patient, the physician, the pharmaceutical manufacturer, the payer,
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  Speaker 5: and the pharmacy as well.
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  Speaker 1: We're looking at, you know, all of those different connected layers, right?
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  Speaker 5: What does that journey really look like when none of
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  Speaker 5: them are separated and we've now integrated the ecosystem together
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  Speaker 5: and have this whole orchestration occurring autonomously in the background
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  Speaker 5: as opposed to all these different point solutions and silos
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  Speaker 5: across the ecosystem, Ben?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, really great question.
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  Speaker 6: And again, I think from our perspective, the work that
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  Speaker 6: we've done with Cassian has really allowed us to decrease
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  Speaker 6: the fragmentation that all of our stakeholders experience. Like you said,
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  Speaker 6: the There's so many different stakeholders and players within the
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  Speaker 6: specialty pharmacy space that really have to come together as
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  Speaker 6: one to really deliver patient care. At the end of
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  Speaker 6: the day, that's what we're all here to do is
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  Speaker 6: make sure that patients are ultimately receiving the care that
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  Speaker 6: they need. And, you know, we're all so well-intended in
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  Speaker 6: the things that we do, but at the same time,
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  Speaker 6: very much siloed. So we've experienced that over the years
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  Speaker 6: with Lumicera. And, you know, again, everyone's really trying to
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  Speaker 6: race to do the best with their individual area and
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  Speaker 6: what they can do. How do we bring all that together?
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  Speaker 6: And really it's about creating more transparency and more seamless
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  Speaker 6: information flow. So we're a transparent organization at heart. So
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  Speaker 6: a desire of ours is how do we have that
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  Speaker 6: same transparency that you think from a payer standpoint around financials,
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  Speaker 6: it's really transparency around information flow. Patients want to know
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  Speaker 6: what's going on with their medications really down to the minute.
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  Speaker 6: Providers want to know what's going on with their patients
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  Speaker 6: down to the minute. How do we create that transparency?
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  Speaker 6: How do we create visibility? But then, you know, we'll
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  Speaker 6: probably get into this a little bit coming up here,
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  Speaker 6: but then it becomes how do we do it as
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  Speaker 6: efficiently as possible? And I think that's where, you know,
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  Speaker 6: the OneJourney platform and how this has evolved with Cassian
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  Speaker 6: has really enabled our organization to be able to accomplish that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and Chris, I got something to add on that.
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  Speaker 7: I mean, you look at the specialty pharmacy journey five,
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  Speaker 7: ten years ago, pre-portal, pre-digital engagement, and it was all telephonic.
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  Speaker 3: Right?
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  Speaker 7: We wanted to make sure we gave our patients options.
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  Speaker 7: And then by giving them options, we created a win-win
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  Speaker 7: in the process because now we have this seamless flow
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  Speaker 7: that is full of data. And we're using that data
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  Speaker 7: to now improve our programs, to improve outcomes, and also
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  Speaker 7: find value for other partners in the drug channel and
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  Speaker 7: supply chain. So manufacturers and payers, health systems, all of
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  Speaker 7: these are partners now that because of our free flow
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  Speaker 7: of data and information, we're getting insights we never had five,
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  Speaker 7: 10 years ago.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: And I like how Ben said, you know, tying it
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  Speaker 5: back to the transparent organization. And I always like to
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  Speaker 5: call it a single pane of glass, right? Everyone has
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  Speaker 5: that same view of where the patient is. What is
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  Speaker 5: the next best action? How do we keep moving forward
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  Speaker 5: and push that patient forward?
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  Speaker 3: You know, when you think of the patient's reaction to
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  Speaker 3: a complex.
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  Speaker 1: System, it creates fear.
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  Speaker 3: And when you start building these bridges seamless from one
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  Speaker 3: system to the next to the next, it removes that fear.
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  Speaker 3: The patient feels like when they get on the phone
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  Speaker 3: with their pharmacist, they get on the phone with that technician,
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  Speaker 3: and everybody seems like they know what's going on. It
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  Speaker 3: brings that.
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  Speaker 3: Where's that blood pressure cuff? We'll be able to take
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  Speaker 3: a reading where you're not as nervous about that.
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  Speaker 7: Well, it removes that fear, and it also removes a
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  Speaker 7: failure point in the process of getting that patient access
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  Speaker 7: to the medication. So, I mean, every one of those
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  Speaker 7: fear points is also a step in the process that
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  Speaker 7: could end up leading to that patient not receiving that
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  Speaker 7: treatment that we've now eliminated by putting it all together.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, and when we talk about the patient, I mean,
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  Speaker 6: our hallmark since day one has been all about the patient. So,
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  Speaker 6: you know, very high customer satisfaction scores, patient satisfaction scores.
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  Speaker 6: We've had an NPS score now in the last five years,
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  Speaker 6: well into the 80s, which is considered world-class and really
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  Speaker 6: unheard of within our industry. So it is something that
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  Speaker 6: we are keeping the patient in mind. We want to take,
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  Speaker 6: to your point, Todd, the fear, the complexity. How do
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  Speaker 6: we remove all of that and really just get down
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  Speaker 6: to make it as easy as possible for the patient, which...
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  Speaker 6: by an extension, is what our partners, when it comes
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  Speaker 6: to the providers and the manufacturers that develop these medications,
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  Speaker 6: ultimately want to see as well. The other thing that
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  Speaker 6: I think is really important here too is we have
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  Speaker 6: a ton of really, really smart, dedicated people on our team.
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  Speaker 6: And they want to do what's best for the patient
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  Speaker 6: as well. So I think the other thing that's incredibly
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  Speaker 6: important and valuable is what we've done here with Cassian
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  Speaker 6: with OneJourney is really removing some of the mundane workflow
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  Speaker 6: tasks and things like that that.
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  Speaker 1: Are non-value add.
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  Speaker 6: So now our individuals, whether pharmacists, nurses, or technicians, they
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  Speaker 6: can operate closer to the top of their license, which
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  Speaker 6: is ultimately providing more value, more care back to those
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  Speaker 6: patients versus some of the more, let's say, clerical, administrative
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  Speaker 6: types of things that kind of plagues the system in
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  Speaker 6: a lot of different areas. So it's really, again, taking
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  Speaker 6: a look at how it benefits everyone in the system
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  Speaker 6: it also leads to a higher satisfaction within our own
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  Speaker 6: associates as well.
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  Speaker 5: And even talking about some of that, just the data
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  Speaker 5: that we've seen, Ben, from the platform, we've seen a
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  Speaker 5: 45% improvement in turnaround time for for different tasks within
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  Speaker 5: the platform. And you're talking about patient satisfaction. I think
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  Speaker 5: you guys have some of the highest in the surveys
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  Speaker 5: we're seeing back from the patients from their experiences. They're
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  Speaker 5: well into the 90s from the patient experiences there. So really,
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  Speaker 5: really best-in-class type organization and service that you guys are
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  Speaker 5: providing through the One Journey platform and through your associates
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  Speaker 5: by allowing them to operate at the top of their
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  Speaker 5: license as opposed to doing a lot of those mundane tasks.
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  Speaker 6: Well, just to add to that real quick, again, a
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  Speaker 6: lot of things come down to the proof is in
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  Speaker 6: the pudding, right?
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  Speaker 4: We can have a conversation.
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  Speaker 6: Theoretically, we think something's going to do X, Y, Z,
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  Speaker 6: but to be able to then see the outcomes that
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  Speaker 6: it's driven, whether it's patient satisfaction, some of the different
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  Speaker 6: improvements we've seen from the standpoint around speed to therapy
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  Speaker 6: of getting patients on medication, keeping them on medication, making
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  Speaker 6: sure that their.
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  Speaker 4: Adherence is there.
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  Speaker 6: Again, really allowing for more success for that patient. And
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  Speaker 6: I think, you know, Eric mentioned data, information. It is
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  Speaker 6: really so powerful within our industry. It informs, it helps guide,
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  Speaker 6: and manufacturers want to know what's happening with that patient
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  Speaker 6: journey as well. So I think, you know, as Cassian
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  Speaker 6: continues to really explode within this industry, with a number
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  Speaker 6: of different partners, the amount of information that's going to
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  Speaker 6: be available and the insights that's going to be able
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  Speaker 6: to drive, we as an industry very much need to
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  Speaker 6: move to a kind of a total cost of care
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  Speaker 6: type model. And information is what allows that, especially if
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  Speaker 6: we can tie platforms together. I know we have a
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  Speaker 6: lot of desires to really link more platforms together. there
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  Speaker 6: is a wealth of information sitting within the electronic medical
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  Speaker 6: records that are out there. If we're able to tie
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  Speaker 6: that in, we have now a total picture of what
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  Speaker 6: that patient's experiencing, and that allows us to make decisions
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  Speaker 6: across both the medical and the pharmacy side. So really,
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  Speaker 6: we are marching toward unlocking what I call the holy
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  Speaker 6: grail of health care, and that's total cost of care.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's a good point. And I want to
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  Speaker 5: kind of bring us, look forward at it, right? And
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  Speaker 5: how are we, when we're bringing the provider and we're
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  Speaker 5: bringing the patient together into that whole connective layer, what
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  Speaker 5: was it like before, right? So let's think about pharmacy
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  Speaker 5: before this connectivity and tissue layer existed to what is
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  Speaker 5: this looking like now and how is that operating and
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  Speaker 5: what are some of those tasks that are actually pulling
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  Speaker 5: through in the ecosystem along with the data and some
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  Speaker 5: of the data insights like you were just talking about, Ben,
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  Speaker 5: that now all of our different stakeholders have access to,
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  Speaker 5: whether that's the manufacturer or the payer?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 7: Well, Chris, great question. Todd brought up fear before. Patients
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  Speaker 7: had fear with the lack of unknown data. and where
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  Speaker 7: things were in the process, I'd say there was similar
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  Speaker 7: emotions on the provider side. Although it probably wasn't fear,
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  Speaker 7: it was more like anger and frustration and, you know,
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  Speaker 7: things we can't say on the podcast here is what
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  Speaker 7: our call center teams received. But, I mean, any time
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  Speaker 7: that you can get that information in front of the
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  Speaker 7: prescribers as to where that patient is in the PA process,
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  Speaker 7: in the financial access process, in the ability to actually
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  Speaker 7: get that drug, and then coordinate it with the rest
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  Speaker 7: of their care, with labs and any other clinical interventions
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  Speaker 7: they may need. That's what healthcare is all about, bringing
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  Speaker 7: all of the different individuals of that patient care team
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  Speaker 7: together and making sure that the prescriber, the specialist, the
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  Speaker 7: other therapist, everyone involved can have access to that data
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  Speaker 7: so that they can ultimately make the best clinical decisions
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  Speaker 7: and recommendations.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, and going back to some of those points and
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  Speaker 5: some of what Ben said, autonomously driving that activity, right?
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  Speaker 5: So not only are we triggering activities from the pharmacy
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  Speaker 5: back into the physician, triggering those back out to the
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  Speaker 5: patient as well, and finding the next best action across
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  Speaker 5: the ecosystem, allowing, like Ben said, the patient's or even pharmacists.
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  Speaker 1: To be operating. You're going to cut that out.
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  Speaker 5: We'll say one, two, three, allowing the pharmacist to be
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  Speaker 5: operating at the top of their license as opposed to
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  Speaker 5: tracking these mundane tasks and then having to reach out
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  Speaker 5: to the physician.
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  Speaker 1: And all of this two-way.
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  Speaker 5: Exchange over phone when we can have that data integration
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  Speaker 5: and pull that data across those two different silos. So
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  Speaker 5: now sharing pharmacy data back to physician offices and vice versa,
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  Speaker 5: enabling that data exchange is really breaking down those barriers
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  Speaker 5: and driving a lot of efficiency here in the workflow
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  Speaker 5: for everyone.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, again, everything we're talking about, it comes back to
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  Speaker 6: the patient. The patient's at the heart of this. The
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: patient's why we do the things that we do. And
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  Speaker 6: what this allows, coming back to it again, is decrease
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  Speaker 6: the complexity, decrease the fear. Patients, we sit in isolation
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  Speaker 6: within specialty pharmacy and think, well, that's the only thing
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  Speaker 6: that that patient's got to worry about right now. Likely
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  Speaker 6: a lot of these patients have a litany of different
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  Speaker 6: things for their own personal lives or family members and
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  Speaker 6: things like that. They don't have time to be sitting
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  Speaker 6: on the phone, you know, waiting for one of our representatives.
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  Speaker 6: They don't have maybe time during their workday because they
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  Speaker 6: have to support their family. You know, being able to
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  Speaker 6: use the platform to be able to engage with our pharmacy,
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  Speaker 6: get real-time information at any point in the time of
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  Speaker 6: the day, any sort of information they're looking for is
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  Speaker 6: incredibly valuable and makes it so much easier for that
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  Speaker 6: patient to be able to manage. We have, back in
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  Speaker 6: the day, early Lumicera, we kind of joked because, again,
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  Speaker 6: as Eric mentioned, everything was telephonic.
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  Speaker 4: Our patients love that.
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  Speaker 6: And I think that they grew accustomed to that personalized
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  Speaker 6: voice on the other side of the line that picked
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  Speaker 6: up immediately and answered all their questions. I think in
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  Speaker 6: an ideal state, what we're trying to do is really
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  Speaker 6: marry that personalized telephonic touch with those who want to
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  Speaker 6: be able to self-serve, take care of their needs as
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  Speaker 6: they see fit, but then be right there for that
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  Speaker 6: wraparound support from a telephonic standpoint. So, you know, patients
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  Speaker 6: have a ton going on. Pharmacy is so complex, especially specialty.
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  Speaker 6: It's really just cutting down as many barriers as possible,
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  Speaker 6: making it as efficient as possible across the whole ecosystem,
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  Speaker 6: and that's going to lead to better patient care and
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  Speaker 6: better outcomes.
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  Speaker 3: So if there's a stage of therapy, and I'm just
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  Speaker 3: asking this because I have no idea, there's a stage
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  Speaker 3: of therapy that it's time for the pharmacist to engage
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  Speaker 3: with the physician because something's changed or something's been modified.
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  Speaker 3: Should we be standardizing therapy? a 15-minute, a 20-minute, a
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  Speaker 3: 30-minute review with specific therapies that we now know based
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  Speaker 3: on data that those sensitivities are probably going to come
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  Speaker 3: up during a titration or moving from one medication to another?
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  Speaker 3: Are we moving to a 30,000-foot view and saying, hey,
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  Speaker 3: just like the patient appreciates the phone call and that
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  Speaker 3: personal touch, the physician is in front of that EHR
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  Speaker 3: all the time, but is it time to pick up
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  Speaker 3: the phone or get on a Zoom call or whatever
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  Speaker 3: the system is that you're using for internet meetings or whatever?
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  Speaker 3: But where does the communication between the physician and the pharmacist,
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  Speaker 3: do you think it should be standardized to the therapy
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  Speaker 3: or should it be as come as needed or both?
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  Speaker 6: Certainly, I think from my perspective, the gold standard is
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  Speaker 6: always how fast can you do it across everything, right?
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  Speaker 6: Because you don't want to minimize any one disease state.
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  Speaker 6: That being said, I think we all can be aware
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  Speaker 6: that there are certain disease states that are a little
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  Speaker 6: bit more severe than others, that have various downsides or
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  Speaker 6: potential ramifications if we don't act very quick. So the
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  Speaker 6: other thing that you kind of sparked my thought process there, Todd,
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  Speaker 6: that I was thinking previously is, again, that complexity piece
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  Speaker 6: It's very, it's sad sometimes when I hear patients have
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  Speaker 6: to go through the journey of being diagnosed with, you know,
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  Speaker 6: a potentially life-threatening, life-altering medication or a disease state, and
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  Speaker 6: they don't know what the next steps are. Doctor says, yep,
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  Speaker 6: we're going to get you a medication, we're going to
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  Speaker 6: get that sent over to a pharmacy, and that's the
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: last that they hear.
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  Speaker 4: And patient sits, and they wait, and they wait, and
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: they wait.
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  Speaker 6: That's part of the fragmentation that we were talking earlier,
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  Speaker 6: you know, With the OneJourney platform, what it's really allowing
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  Speaker 6: us to do is really drive down that speed to
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: therapy so that that patient's not sitting there fearful, not
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: knowing what the next steps are. When is my medication
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  Speaker 6: coming so I can start to get better and my
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: quality of life improve? To be able to get that
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  Speaker 6: down well below a two-day turnaround time. So we talk about, again,
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  Speaker 6: connecting information back through to physicians. I think The power really, again,
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  Speaker 6: is being able to make those decisions and information sharing
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  Speaker 6: as quickly as possible. You know, we, in our care model,
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: we have a variety of touch points with patients. They
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  Speaker 6: are sometimes set up based on the disease point or
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: the disease state as to how frequently we reach out.
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  Speaker 6: But that doesn't mean that that's what the patient is
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  Speaker 6: experiencing in that moment in time. By having a connected
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: platform and the way that the patient can work with
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  Speaker 6: us without having to pick up the phone, they can
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: easily let us know that something is not right.
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  Speaker 4: Is it a side effect?
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  Speaker 1: Is it some sort of disease progression?
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  Speaker 6: And then again, getting back to the future state, if
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  Speaker 6: we can tie that back into the doctor's record to
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  Speaker 6: what they're actually seeing at their computer terminal, that creates
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  Speaker 6: real information flow in real time versus this fragmented stepwise approach.
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  Speaker 6: And I think we all are aware that physicians are
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  Speaker 6: incredibly burdened as well. How can we put that right
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  Speaker 6: in front of their eyes instead of the patient not
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  Speaker 6: knowing how to navigate to the physician and actually talk
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: to the physician? We are that bridge between the patient
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  Speaker 6: and the physician. So if we can create as streamlined
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: of information as possible, again, it's just cutting down on
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: all the fragmentation and challenges that we have.
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: Todd, your question gets to the time-old debate, standardize or individualize.
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: And I personally think the answer is both. And you
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: need a tool that allows you to have both of
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: those components. There are certain pieces... within every treatment regimen
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: that you just need to ensure are met and done
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: before you're safely dispensing the medication to the patient. You
• 17:28
  Speaker 7: need a tool that allows that standardization and making sure
• 17:31
  Speaker 7: those things don't get missed.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: You also need to.
• 17:34
  Speaker 7: Make sure you're tailoring to the patient's needs, and you
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: need a digital tool that can ensure that there is
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: the ability to And our Cassian solution has been able
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: to do that, that we're able to have both that
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: standardized and individualized approach. And then all that information we're
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: gathering that can help that treatment regimen and any recommendations
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: that come forth with that is communicated in real time
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: back to the prescriber.
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and that real-time connectivity between all of those stakeholders
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: is really operating as one care team.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: That's what we really want.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: We want the physician and the pharmacist to be working
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: together in tandem, not I have my silo, you have
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: your silo. We're double collecting information. I ask the patient
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: the same question. You ask the patient the same question.
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: That's just a bad patient experience across the board, right?
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: No patient wants to answer the same thing seven times.
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm sure we've all filled out the same
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: form 7,000 times too, all being through the healthcare journey ourselves.
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: But standardizing that, sharing that data, creating that care team
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: and and really showing the outcome is valuable, and eventually
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: being able to have an understanding of best-in-class therapies, and
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: where we should continue to push, and what are the
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: right and appropriate therapies, and eventually getting to a value-based model, too,
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: and having that full transparency that I know Lumis Air
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: and Navitus are so keen on. We need to start
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: building these data repositories, these data sets, and building these
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: end-to-end journeys to be able to show that and prove that.
• 19:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think you hit on a lot of
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: things there. First, going back to what Ben said, You know,
• 19:09
  Speaker 7: we're trying to find and use technology to eliminate duplication
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: and mundane work so that we can focus more on
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: the clinical engagement and the patient journey. The second piece
• 19:23
  Speaker 7: that you really hit on that excites me is the
• 19:26
  Speaker 7: value-based aspect, right? When we are working in silos, there's
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: no way to measure value across the different components of
• 19:35
  Speaker 7: the healthcare system, right?
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: Bridging that. completely changes the game.
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: Now we can actually get to a place where we're
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: providing value-based care and finding out that, hey, this treatment
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: actually avoided this detrimental outcome. I think that's just been
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: a game changer with what we have now with our
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: digital solution.
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: So while we're talking about some differentiators, I know you
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: guys are very forward on the transparency.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: You guys have been doing transparency for decades.
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: Arguably maybe the longest, although that's been the new hot topic.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Here in the industry over the last year.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: Why don't you guys talk a little bit about the
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: visibility into the cost and the status of all of
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: that from a patient, a pharmacy, a provider perspective, and
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: some of the value that you guys are seeing being
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: one of the first transparent specialty pharmacies in the country?
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So, again, I mean, transparency can be viewed in
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of different ways.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: You're right.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: It has become.
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: The new buzzword is much similar to, you know, we
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: were the first cost plus specialty pharmacy in the industry.
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: We think we still are actually, but you know, cost
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: plus is now becoming part of the regular vernacular, if
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: you will.
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: So you're right.
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: We do have to continually think about how we are
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: differentiating ourselves. And part of that is getting back to
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: what we are all here to do.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: It's the patient.
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: It is the heart of what we do. It's built
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: into our culture. It fuels our teams. So Our patient care,
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: our clinical services, that's what really sets us apart. Our
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: manufacturer partners see it, our patients see that, our prescribers
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: see that. We want that to be what shines through.
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: And the One Journey platform is really what enables us
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: to really accelerate on that. It's interesting as we talk about,
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: I'm kind of looking back over how we've developed through
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: our relationship with Cassian and really how Cassian has developed,
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: continually developed tools. And it's great to have, I hear
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: the passion that Chris brings and the ideas that he's
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: bringing forward and the way that we're going to continue
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: to march in a way that even as therapies get
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: more complex, we're going to be able to hold true
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: to that because of the technology that we have around
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: the patient care. As I look around the bustling exhibit
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: hall here at NASP Inspire, I'm starting to wonder to myself,
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: are we heading towards a different type of fragmentation?
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is I.
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: See every single year more and more amazing companies pop
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: up that are trying to solve pieces of the puzzle.
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: And what oftentimes I think we're looking at is we're
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: racing towards solutions. But I think we'd be very mindful
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: as to how we bring those solutions on. What I'm
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: getting at is really we can't be looking at each
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: individual process as an individual step with a different point
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: solution because we're bringing in point solutions that aren't talking
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: to each other. We just talked to an extensive amount
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: as to how do you cut down the fragmentation? How
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: do you share information? That's, again, what Chris and the
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: casting team is building within the One Journey platform. Again,
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: kind of bundle it all together so you really cut
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: down those barriers. Again, nothing against all the amazing solutions
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: that are here. We just have to think about when
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: we're developing these solutions, how are they going to talk
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: to each other so that we're not actually creating a
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: problem out.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Of a solution? It's 100%, Ben. I think that you
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: hit that perfectly.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: And it's great when you have such a forward-thinking partner
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: on the other end, right? You guys as Lumisera, as
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: a pharmacy, trying to push the bounds, trying to provide
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: best-in-class patient services, trying to ensure that you're having an
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: amazing relationship with your providers and giving them a great
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: experience if they're providing a script to you. It makes
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: it easy as the partner on the other side to
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: really enable it and make sure that this is all
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: happening and coming together for the patient, right? For the
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: patient and making sure that they're having the right outcome.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: I see QR codes could be put in front of
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: every single one of these booths with every single one
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: of the players. And you have an app that the
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: NASP could even have on their own app. And when
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: you start scanning the QR codes, the AI will put
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: the systems together of how each of the individuals might
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: work together. and what the outcome would be with like
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: a manufactured white paper right on the spot.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Todd, you better get patenting that.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: That's wild.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: But that's seriously like we're kind of at the dawn
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: of something like that, of being able to say, hey,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: what is this organization? How would these two organizations work
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: together based on the data they've supplied us in one
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: place so that we can kind of, once again, take
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: the guesswork out of what it's going to be like
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: to build a specific specialty pharmacy engine and how that's
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: going to work for the patient best. That's the defragmentation of,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: you know, the complexity.
• 24:07
  Speaker 7: Of it all.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Yep, you're absolutely right.
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: One other thing that I was thinking about, Todd, is,
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: you know, we chatted the other day on your podcast here,
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: and had a great conversation. And what I was talking
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: about there is, you know, we're at a point here
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: with specialty pharmacy and the therapies that are coming to
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: market really accelerating. It's absolutely incredible to see the innovation.
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: We're talking a lot about technology here. There's a lot
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: of hope that AI is going to lead to even more,
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: you know, novel therapies coming to market. But those therapies
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: also come with a price. And I think, you know,
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: part of our job as a specialty pharmacy and within
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: the enterprise that we work within with Navitus Health Solutions, Archimedes,
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: and now Clairventa is really how do we take these
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: incredibly innovative molecules and biologics, but then also make it
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: so that our plan sponsors, whether it's a government entity
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: or an employer, can actually afford to provide the benefit
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: to their employees. Fragmentation increases costs. We need to be
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: able to use the tools that are being created here
• 25:05
  Speaker 6: to ultimately lower those down. Oftentimes the conversation is around
• 25:10
  Speaker 6: what's the ultimate price you're going to charge. So much
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: of the business that we win, the first thing that
• 25:15
  Speaker 6: people are thinking about because of the affordability crisis is, well,
• 25:19
  Speaker 6: what cost can you get me? And they want to
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: save a little bit here, a little bit there. What
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: is oftentimes forgotten is that you have to look at
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: the outcomes. If you're a plan sponsor and you're forking over,
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: let's say, $ 100, 000, maybe even $ 250, 000 a year for a therapy,
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: and there's no benefit at the end of that, that's
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: a terrible ROI. So we as pharmacies not only need
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: to help guide the therapy process and decision-making amongst all
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: of these incredible, innovative products, but then we also have
• 25:48
  Speaker 6: to ensure that there's an ROI on that investment, on
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: that employee, on that government employee, plan individual so that
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: at the end of the day, that $ 250, 000 investment actually
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: did something. So I want to tie that all together
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: as to, again, there is a very important role that
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: we are all playing here that we're all coming together
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: to solve, and that's making sure that patients actually improve
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: through the incredible innovation that's out there.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: And even the golf of that, Ben, right? It's only
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: going to accelerate, like you mentioned, with AI. I mean,
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: that's why specialty is so exciting today, right? We're going
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: to have, what is it, 60%, 70% of the pipeline
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: today is specialty or orphan drugs coming to market. That's
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: eventually going to be 90% plus, I'm sure, in the
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: next decade or two of drugs coming to market with
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: the acceleration of AI and personalized medicine. A specialty isn't
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: a very exciting place to be, but we need to
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: make sure that we're proving the end-to-end value like you mentioned.
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: A ton of excitement and opportunity, a ton of responsibility
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: for all of us.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is true.
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: So looking forward, the two, the three-year time horizon, right?
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: What does an automatic, autonomous orchestration... no fragmentation, coordinated journey
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: look like with all the stakeholders in two to three
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: years from now?
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: We know where we're all at today, but where does
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: that go in two, three, four years from now? What
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: do you guys think?
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm probably going to have to turn this over
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: to Eric. He's the, let's say, more blue sky thinker
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: out there. I'm a little bit in a box, let's say,
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: but the possibilities almost seem endless as to how quickly
• 27:21
  Speaker 6: things are innovating within the technology space. So it's almost
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: challenging to paint a picture that probably will be outdated
• 27:27
  Speaker 6: six months from now. I mean again I don't know
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: what it looks like but I do know that what
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: we're all working towards is again that seamless process of
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: making sure that a patient can get on therapy as
• 27:37
  Speaker 6: quickly as possible. be informed, be comfortable, have all their
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: questions and needs and all those different types of things
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: addressed and really at their fingertips. What I value and
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: the tools that I use even outside of the pharmacy
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: space is I want information pushed to me.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: I want actions pushed to me.
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: I want I want to kind of like have the
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: thought removed from my busy life. So I think as
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: we look forward, it's like, how do we drive action?
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: How do we drive outcomes? And I think, you know, again,
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: creating a seamless process as possible is what's going to
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: allow that. So now I'll do a drum roll and
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: let Eric tell you what's really going to look like.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Well, it's a fun question.
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: You know, I stand here looking out at all my
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: colleagues from different organizations. We have manufacturers, health systems, pharmacies,
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: technology vendors, a lot of debate with strong opinions.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Sometimes they view on different sides.
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: Of the aisle has caused many in our industry to
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: believe there's not really a path forward where all sides win.
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: And I truly believe that's not true.
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: There is a win-win, a win-win-win in this case, because
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: we've got, yeah, right. And it really comes down to
• 28:55
  Speaker 7: what are we here to do? We have the same
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: common goal, take care of the patient, improve outcomes, make
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: sure that we're keeping patients healthy. The challenge really lies
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: in the lack of data flowing between these organizations. And
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: so when you can bring that together, you can get
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: to the root cause of let's get back to taking
• 29:16
  Speaker 7: care of the patient and let's find value that we
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: can all agree on and be able to share in that,
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: that ultimately generates.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: That win, win, win.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: I'll say the thing that I think I'm most excited about,
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: and I know I've talked a little bit about this,
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: but pulling in more data elements and making all of
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: this care more convenient. You start thinking about wearable type data.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: You think about genomic type data. How do we start
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: personalizing these experiences and letting these patients do it at home, right?
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: You're wearing a wearable. I'm wearing one right now. I
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: have an aura ring on, right? I'm collecting data on myself.
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: genomic tests. You can mail them at home, quick cheek swab.
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: You can do, I mean, there's amazing at-home blood sensors
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: now that you can take, you know, blood glucose monitoring.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: You can even do.
• 29:57
  Speaker 5: Blood draws at home and mail it into the lab
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: instead of having to come into a lab and do
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: a quarterly or monthly blood draw for whatever disease state
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: that you might be treating, right? So how do we
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: make this more convenient for patients? How do we remove
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: barriers for the patients to take care of themselves? And
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: like Ben said, how do we push that out to
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: them so it's all coming to them as opposed to
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: them needing to seek care, them needing to search for care,
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: them needing to find what the right next thing is?
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: We need to bring the health system to them, not
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: be making them come to the healthcare system. And I
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: think that's where we're going to go in the next two, three, four,
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: five years. But hey, we'll see what happens.
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: Well, and a big piece of that comes down to interoperability, right?
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: If we can have our systems talking to each other,
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: which we've been able to do now with Cassian and
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: our pharmacy management system and our EMR, right? If we
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: can have all these really cool gadgets and wearables and
• 30:44
  Speaker 7: ways to measure our health and our outcomes, right? available
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: and talking to each other, I mean, that's ultimately how
• 30:51
  Speaker 7: we're going to make it more convenient, right? If I
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: have to go in and log into 17 different apps and,
• 30:56
  Speaker 7: you know, that gets back to the fragmentation, right? So
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: the more we can bring these technologies together and get
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: them talking to each other, that's going to end up
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: causing the patient to be part of their healthcare, which
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: is what we need. We need them invested and motivated
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: in that care And if we eliminate those barriers by
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: having the systems talk to each other, that's the way
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: we do it.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Well, this has been an amazing ending to a very
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: special three-part series, One Journey. We were ending the fragmentation
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: in specialty care. I want to say thank you to
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Chris Corsi and Cassian Rx for sponsoring such a wonderful series.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: A shout out to Lumicera Health Services, Eric Huckins, and
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Ben Heiser. You guys have always been beacons of light
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: to specialty pharmacy and bring us some interesting conversations. Listeners,
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: please subscribe to the Pharmacy Podcast Network and the NASP
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: podcast as well, and reach out to Chris with more
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: questions on ending fragmentation within specialty care and your specialty pharmacy.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Go to CassianRx.com.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Once again, that's CassianRx.com.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: Thank you.