Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #534 Unmasking Gender Ideology: Protecting Our Children with Dr. Miriam Grossman

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#534 Unmasking Gender Ideology: Protecting Our Children with Dr. Miriam Grossman · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rigg, your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and a doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know I make a wild guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet Saint John Paul II said there's an echo of the story of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And if you put on the proper lens if I put on the proper lens we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II's theology of the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: To help answer those questions, I'm with my good friend, thomas Hampson, and we are joined by the great Miriam Grossman.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: So buckle up and get ready for today's episode.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Dr Miriam Grossman is a board certified in child, adolescent and adult psychiatry.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Before gender ideology was on anyone's radar, she warned parents about it in her 2009 book about sexuality education.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: You're teaching my child what Dr Grossman's practice focuses on gender distress, young people and their patients.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: She believes that every child is born in the right body.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Dr Grossman has been vocal about the capture of her profession by ideologues, leading to dangerous and experimental treatments on children and the betrayal of parents.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Her latest book Lost in Transnation A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness, with a foreword by Dr Jordan Peterson Marian Grossman welcome to the show.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: Well, it's great to be here.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Well, you know.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I just want to reiterate how important your earlier books were too.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Before Lost in Transnation came out, you were on our show and I had read your Teaching my Child what Unprotected one back in 2006, unprotected when you were working on college campuses and Teaching my child what.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: You were ahead of this curve, the courage to stand up when nobody else did, and I'd love to hear to start us out here a little bit.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: You know, where did you find your courage and can you bring us up to speed, because it seems that this crazy, this madness that you call it, is accelerating.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Dr Grossman, how are you feeling about this?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Are we going to get out of this thing?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It's amazing because Tom and I are dealing with this all the time.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: In schools.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: We have a presentation called Stolen Innocence.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: We reference your material all the time and people are still just starting to wake up in so many corners.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: I'm so, so glad to hear that you're doing that, and Stolen Innocence is perfect.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: It's just the perfect title for what's going on.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: You know, for me it is kind of it's bittersweet.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: I mean bitter in the sense that this is going on for so long.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Going on for so long, and I did try very hard to, you know, wave a red flag and and warn parents that this gender issue among among many other issues but I guess we're focusing today on gender I warned parents all the way back in 2009 so that that's 15 years ago that this gender ideology, telling children that they may have been born in the wrong body, leading children to believe that it's perfectly normal to want to be in a different body, to believe that you're a different sex, leading kids to believe that, basically, you can deny reality, because that's what this is about.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: It's anti-reality.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: It tells children.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: It tells children you go ahead and construct your reality and then everyone else needs to honor that.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Now you can deny reality, but you're going to pay a very heavy price.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Even more surprising and I would imagine it is to you is that parents are going along with this, and even more surprising that the educators and our actual president administration is all pushing, they're all behind this.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: This is a real force, isn't it?
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: It's an industry they're all behind this.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: This is a real force, isn't it?
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: It's an industry.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: It is a industry, and you know, of course, there's a pile of money involved giving these or medicalizing these children who are operating on them.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: But not only that, you know, it's much, much actually bigger than that this is an industry in which many people are getting very rich.
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: And bigger than that.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, beyond the financial incentive, it is about erasing the idea of male and female.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: It is about destroying this biological truth that has always been true and will always be true that humanity is divided into male and female.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: There are two sexes.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: They are established, permanently established at conception.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: So this is a political social movement on steroids.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: At this point, it's a crusade, and I can see from my private practice and from the hundreds and hundreds of people that contact me, the shattered lives that result from it.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: You recently said something similar to that in a PragerU posting.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: That was done and you took the task the doctors, medical professionals and other psychologists and psychiatrists for not speaking out against it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Could you tell, have you gotten any reaction from that yet?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Have you, what kind of reaction are you getting from people?
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, people are loving that video.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: You're referring to the PragerU five-minute video that came out just a week ago.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: I think there's almost I don't know 180,000 or so views in a week.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: The response is overwhelmingly positive and I get in my email.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Almost every day I'm contacted by a medical doctor or a psychologist, social worker, medical student saying you know, I'm so glad you're speaking up, I'm 100% in agreement with you, but I'm unable to speak up because I will lose my job, lose my position in my residency, and what they're agreeing with is that I'm saying this is a medical catastrophe.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: We are turning physically healthy children and teenagers and young adults 100% physically healthy and we are turning them into lifelong patients, lifelong consumers of pharmaceuticals.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: So when you put these kids on puberty blockers which now the medical organizations, the mainstream medical organizations are telling doctors like myself that we need to start these kids on blockers at the very first sign of puberty and in some kids that can be at age eight or nine or 10, very, very early.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Kids start puberty very early and what we're being told by the guidelines that are coming out from the Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association and many other places, is they say that these kids need to have their puberties stopped, blocked, and then almost all of those kids continue on to cross-sex hormones in order to masculinize a girl's body or to feminize a boy's body and to create irreversible changes.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Is puberty starting earlier than it used to, or what?
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Puberty certainly is starting earlier than it used to.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: We're not sure why exactly that is, but yeah, puberty is starting now, at age 9, 10, 11.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: And puberty, let me remind your audience, puberty is a normal developmental process that everyone needs to go through in order to become an adult, in order to mature physically, not only in terms of our you know sexual development, breasts and lowered voice and facial hair, et cetera, but in many, many other ways.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Every system in the body is impacted by puberty, and very much so the brain.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: The brain goes through a remarkable explosion of maturation during puberty, which lasts really until the mid-20s.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: So the brain of a 25-year-old is very different than the brain of a 10 or even a 15-year-old.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: And what these blockers do is they prevent that maturation from happening and they freeze the child in a permanent childhood, prepubescent state of immaturity.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: And then they give them the opposite sex hormones and they tell us well, they're going to go through their proper puberty on the direction of a male puberty lower her voice, grow facial hair, you know, and all the body hair and all the other changes.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Now the big question here is that synthetic puberty, the same as the organic puberty that she would have gone through normally.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: We have no idea.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: We have no idea if the brain is going to develop normally.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: We simply don't know.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: What we do know is that putting these kids on the medications, the blockers, followed by the hormones, it leads to a long, long list of medical issues cardiovascular issues, possible cancers, sexual dysfunction, infertility.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is a nightmare.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: This is a nightmare and it's going on in our country, and in that PragerU video I went out on a limb and I said two things that I haven't said before.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: One is that I use the term delusion to refer to people who are delusional, convinced that they are the opposite sex.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: That is a delusion.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: A delusion is a fixed false belief, such as believing that you're Napoleon or Madonna or Jesus Christ.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Those people that have those delusions are mentally ill.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Now, our educational system, now our educational system, our sadly health associations, professional associations and many other groups are foisting these false ideas the idea of being born in the wrong body, the idea that if you feel that your feelings override your physical reality.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: These ideas, these delusions, are being foisted on young kids and they believe them.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: They do definitely believe them, and so I'm holding the adults responsible for that delusionary thinking of the kids, and I'm calling on my colleagues in medicine and in mental health to step up to the plate and to speak up against this catastrophe.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Not only the doctors who are writing prescriptions and doing the operations I mean, they're, of course they are guilty of travesty but all the doctors, the hundreds of thousands of doctors that are staying silent.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: They are also complicit.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the things it's not just in that seems that delusion casting on the children seems to be starting now, at three, four, five years old.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: They're teaching children.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I know in our schools in this area and in Minnesota, new York, they're teaching children all about these pronouns.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: They're teaching that they don't really know if they're a boy or a girl until later.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: How does that confusion affect a child?
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Doesn't that do something terrible to them?
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Of course you know.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, tom and I have a pile of books here that are actually written for the youngest of children, that are actually written for the youngest of children, children who can't themselves read board books.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: As a grandparent, you're aware that there are books that are written for adults to read to kids, and those books you're absolutely correct.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: They say things like when you were born, the adults in the room made a guess and they guessed that you were either a boy or a girl.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: They may have guessed right and they may have guessed wrong, and only you know if you're a boy or a girl.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: This is being told to the very youngest of kids.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Now what does it do?
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: I'm a child psychiatrist.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: What we want is we want kids to have a solid sense of who they are, a solid identity.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: That is part of of of healthy development knowing who you are, knowing where you belong.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: And this is just doing the opposite.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: It's tearing it down.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: It's causing children to question who they are on the most fundamental level of their humanity.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: What is more fundamental than male or female?
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: That is the first thing that we ask.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Are you having a boy or a girl?
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, we have these gender reveals of the parents that are so excited, before the baby's even born, to reveal the it should be the proper word to be used as sex, not gender but in any case to reveal whether they're having a child, who's a boy or a girl.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: This is fundamental to our identity, to our humanity, and here they are destroying that and telling kids that they can choose and that only they know who they are, and they might be both male and female, or they might be neither male and female, or they may be some third or fourth or fifth or sixth or 20th possibility.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Well, of course, that's going to cause utter confusion and anxiety and distress in our children.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And then my organization, the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, and other groups are all wringing their hands and saying, oh my gosh, the level of anxiety is skyrocketing among our kids, the level of depression is skyrocketing, the level of suicidal ideation is skyrocketing.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Well, yes, it is, because kids don't know anymore who the heck they are.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: John Money and he was a guy that you wrote about in your book Lost in Transnation and explained how really off he was.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Could you talk about him a little bit and why you listen to him.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Of course I just want to show everyone the book Essential Reading, not only for parents, but really for everybody these days.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: We'll link that in the blog post here too.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: It is for regular moms and dads, not only for parents who have a child who might be struggling in this area, but anyone with a child.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: They're going to be coming up against these dangerous ideas everywhere, If not at school, then online at Target watching Disney which I hope they don't do, but if they do, they're going to see it everywhere.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: And parents have to be informed and prepared to teach their children the truth from an early age.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: So what I'm saying is they can inoculate their children against, basically, this mind virus that is a social contagion.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: And they need that information, like you wrote about in Lost in Transnation, because when a parent decides they must stand up, they have to have some basic knowledge to stand for.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Otherwise they lose their confidence, Don't they, Dr Grossman?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: And if I have what you wrote in that book, if I could just pick out a few really strong points to start with, I can defend myself.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I can bring it back, like you said, to open this up.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: We have to bring it back to reality, to the truth.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: You know who are we.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, but, yes, I think this goes beyond.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: You know you were the early voice, but I think each one of us has a responsibility now.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: just to bring the truth into the culture.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: If you can only share it with just one person or two people, that is huge.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, and that was the purpose of my book is to give people the ammunition they need because, trust me, we have so much ammunition.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, the truth is on our side, the science is on our side, we have the ammunition but we're not using it, and so that's what the book does, and it's.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: You don't need a PhD to read this book.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: It's written for just regular moms and dads.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: But you want to talk a little bit about John Money?
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Of course John Money was.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: John Money is behind this current gender ideology, this belief that your body doesn't count and your feelings do count.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: He was.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to put it out there.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, he was a wicked man, he was a pedophile, he was a sociopath, he was a liar, but we didn't know any of that until decades after.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: His research was his fraudulent research, I should say was institutionalized theory, which he called his gender theory.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: This was in the 50s and 60s, and he proposed that all of us are born gender neutral, so that we all have the potential from birth of successfully being raised as a boy or a girl.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Of course, you know, some surgery might be needed.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Some hormones might be needed later on.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: And he experimented on some twin boys who showed up in his office because one of them underwent a circumcision in which the equipment was faulty and his penis was burnt off.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Faulty and his penis was burnt off.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: So these identical twins, the Reimer twins, from Canada, were brought down to John Money by their parents in the 60s.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: And they were brought down because these parents, following this terrible accident, did not know what to do with this boy who had no penis.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: He was about a year and a half years old at the time that they brought him down to John Money.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Now, for John Money, this was the answer to his prayers, because he saw in the Reimer twins the possibility of proving his theory, his gender theory, and becoming a world-renowned expert, pioneer, genius in this area, for having discovered and proven correct his gender theory.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: So, to make a long story short, what happened is that the Reimers did raise this child as a girl, changed his name from Bruce to Brenda, put him in pink frilly dresses, gave him dolls to play with and until he was 14 years old, he thought that he was a girl.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Everyone told, told him so, but the truth is he was utterly miserable.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: He didn't want to play with dolls.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: He would tear off those dresses.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: He was a miserable child.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: He did not make friends.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: He was mocked for the masculine way that he walked and talked and his masculine gestures.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: He was more of a tomboy.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: He was more masculine even than his brother, his twin brother.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: These were identical twins and the poor boy was being, and his family were.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Because of John Money's instruction, was put on estrogen so that she would.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: He would grow breasts and he began to realize he's actually romantically attracted to girls.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: He became suicidal and at the same time Dr Money was trying to convince him to undergo surgery to construct a vagina and Brenda Bruce would hear nothing about it, nothing.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: He refused follow-up visits with Dr Money, during which Dr Money was sexually abusing these boys and showing them pornography.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: This all came out many, many years later and because the situation was so dire, even though Dr Money had told the parents you are never to tell the truth to these boys, they did take them and sit them down and tell them the truth.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Now, many years later and you can see this on YouTube, because Oprah Winfrey interviewed Mrs Reimer and the twin, brenda or Bruce, about that moment and Bruce explained that at that moment he felt overwhelming relief because he realized he is not crazy.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Now why am I telling this long story?
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, I don't want to lose our focus here.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: The reason I'm telling this horribly tragic story because both the twins ended up committing suicide when they were adults.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: They were so terribly damaged by what they had been through.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: But the point of the story in terms of gender ideology is that John Money's theory that gender is something that is a feeling or an experience or an identity and it's completely unrelated to our chromosomes and genitals and our hormones and the hormones that we're exposed to prenatally, that whole theory was a complete disaster.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, this experiment on the twins was supposed to be John Money's proof of concept and that experiment was a horrific disaster.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: It's just that we didn't know that it was a disaster Because, even though John Money was hearing from Mrs Reimer as the years went by that Brenda was not doing that great, and even though at age 14, when the family made the decision to tell Brenda the truth and Brenda immediately went back to living as a boy and took the name not Bruce, but the name David.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: Why did he pick the name David?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: He explained because he felt his whole life.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Up to that point he, like the biblical David, had been fighting a monster, and so he picked the name David to symbolize that.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: And so he picked the name David to symbolize that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Now, when David immediately went back to living as a boy and felt 100 percent, you know, in tune with that and always had felt that really he was a boy, feeling that Mrs Reimer wrote a letter to John Money telling him that Now a researcher, a doctor with any iota of integrity would have immediately come out and announced this to the world.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: You know what this experiment with the twins that I've been publishing about and lecturing about, I'm sorry to report, but I must, because it's the truth that it didn't quite work out the way that I thought.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: And actually it proves my theory to be incorrect.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Because here we have this boy who was raised as a girl from the age of about 18 months Now, given a girl's name and girl's dresses, and everyone treated him like a girl.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: If that's not the ultimate social transition, I don't know what is.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: And the result was a disaster.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: But John Money, nothing, not a disaster.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: But John Money nothing, not a word.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: He continued to report the experiment and therefore his theory a resounding success.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Did you say that Oprah Winfrey knew all about this story?
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Well, oprah, okay.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: So what happened?
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Is that Okay?
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: So David Reimer grew up.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: He had a lot of genital surgeries.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: He went off the estrogen, obviously, he had the breasts removed that had grown as a result of the estrogen, children and adopting those children and for a while it looked like things were going well.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: He then discovered that Dr Money had been publicizing not using his name, obviously, but publicizing the results of the experiment as having been positive.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: And David found out that other boys all over the world, either because of an accident or because of some medical disorder, were being raised as girls.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: The way that he was based on John Money, announcing that he was a success.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Announcing that he was a success, right, yeah, okay.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: So, david, when he heard that he decided to go public and he, he went out and started doing interviews and that's when, I guess he he was on the Oprah show with his mother.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: So it's tragic is that is, and it obviously it's.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: It's tragic.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: What's our excuse today?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know we come up to this.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Now it's out the cat's out of the bag.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I would think, miriam, that psychiatrists, psychologists, they know the story, don't they?
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Why do we perpetuate the lie right?
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: So I think this is really perplexing.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: What is behind that?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I know money we already stated money, but it seems, when teachers are doing this in schools, I mean they're not getting paid.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: The teacher's not getting paid more for spreading these lies?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Are they still falling for it?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: What am I missing here?
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Let me try and put this together for you.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: First of all, Jack, it is sadly not correct that doctors and psychologists and social workers know about John Money and about this experiment.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: They don't.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Many of them do not.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I never even heard.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, I got training as a child psychiatrist and the first that I ever heard of John Money was when I was doing research for my book, my 2009 book.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: You're teaching my child what that's when I first heard about John Money.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so people don't necessarily know about him and they certainly don't understand the implications of this failed twin experiment.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: But you, you see, the other thing that happened is that in the decades that passed you know the 70s, 80s and 90s, before all of this came out gender ideology went through different forms and different iterations and it was taken over, so to speak, by radical.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: You know lgbt activists and you know marxists, and they turned it into a.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: You know a victimhood ideology and they turned it into you know another this is another fringe you know marginalized group that's being oppressed, and they began to promote this idea that male and female are ideas that are not based in science.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: They are oppressive, are not based in science.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: They are oppressive.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: You know they're.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: They're only created by white, heterosexual men in order to oppress women.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: And you know, you know all this, all this stuff we get caught up in all this intersectionality and everybody, uh, trying to separate into smaller and smaller pieces, right?
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So it points back to, you know, all the way from Marxism and educate in the Marxist in our educational system, and it kind of just pulls this right through, and I think that's what is so important to expose.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: You know that there's nothing that really can come good out of this for children.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: You know, talk therapy.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Basically we used to call it I don't know, still call it talk therapy, where, as a counselor or a therapist, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, which walk and talk with these children and the majority of them are going to find comfort in their own bodies, aren't they?
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Can you say a few words about that?
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the studies that we have.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: We've always known that there are extremely rare, rare individuals that have this condition called gender dysphoria, and those kids have been studied Again.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: There were very few of them, and listen to this Again, there were very few of them, and listen to this 20 years ago, there were only three clinics that existed in order to help these very rare families who Amsterdam, one in London and one in Toronto.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: Just 20 years ago, the first clinic that would address this issue in minors was Boston in 2007.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: This is all a very recent phenomenon.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: It's a cultural phenomenon, it's a social contagion and, yes, what the kids need is therapy, and this is what now many countries in Europe are essentially banning the medical and surgical interventions that we have here, and they are saying what these kids need is counseling.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: But let me explain one more thing.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: You see, what I want is I don't want it to get to the point in which kids are already coming home and sitting down with their parents or leaving them a note on their pillow or texting them.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: You don't have a son.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: Prevent that from happening, and the way that they can prevent it is by, from an early age, as young as possible, giving your kids the biological truths, such as you were a boy or you were a girl from the very first moment that you were created on this earth.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: From the very moment that you were, you know, in your mother's womb, or from however you want to put it, you were a boy or a girl and that can never change and that is wonderful.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Now there are many different ways of being a boy, and not all girls are into makeup and clothes and cooking or well, I mean whatever your stereotypical things are.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: And not all boys like to play football and are into cars and trucks.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: That's ridiculous.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: And however you are as a boy or a girl is great.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Do not let anyone tell you that you need to change your body.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Your body is perfect and you will find your way.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm thinking like if you have a very feminine girl, a boy, or a masculine, a tomboyish kind of girl, that is great.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: You need to support who they are.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: You need to let them express.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: You know who they are within limits, but the body changing the body is off limits.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, one of the things that we know is that Hollywood has been a main promoter of this gender ideology.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So I wonder, why would somebody like Oprah, who had firsthand interaction with David Reimer, why would she not speak out against this?
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: She seems to be on the side of the pro-gender ideology with the rest of the Hollywood people.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how you can see that and not react in a way to say, hey, we got to stop this from happening again.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's a great question and I wish I could sit down with Oprah because you are right, she is on the others, as far as I understand, on the proponent of gender ideology and I believe, Tom, that she just doesn't get it, Because she did sit there with David Reimer and she did hear his story and I think she doesn't get that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: What happened to David Reimer is proof that you cannot separate male and female from from.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: You cannot dissociate it from the body.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: You don't want to do that.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: We don't want to.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: We don't want anyone to be dissociated from their body from whatever reason.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: That's a psychiatric disturbance.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: To be dissociated from your body, to feel like it's wrong, you know you have the wrong body.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: We do not want that for children.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: But you see, gender the ideologues and activists have been so successful in the way that they have taken our language and they've used you know they've used.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: We're like affirming you have to affirm the child, but you're affirming a delusion.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: You be like affirming you have to affirm the child, but you're affirming a delusion.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: You're not affirming a truth, because a boy can never be a girl and a girl can never be a boy.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: So I think that I don't know what's going on with Oprah, obviously in my book, how the John Money-Reimer twin catastrophe has to be considered when we are looking at gender ideology and understand that the very fundamental, the edifice of gender ideology, is standing on John Money's fraudulent research is standing on John Money's fraudulent research.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that it's such a difficult concept to get across to people.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: It seems so simple to me.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: For example, we got kicked out of the library here when we were given a presentation last year because we engaged in hate speech and the librarian said characterized as hate speech my mentioning and reading from the DSM-5 that gender dysphoria is listed as a mental disorder or a condition in the DSM-5.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: And she said well, yeah, that's hate speech, because there are people that disagree with that.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: I said I told her it's a book in her own library but it's still there, so we got kicked out of reading from a book from their library.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: It was amazing, you know, and so how do you get across to people this, this?
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: simple thing.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: You can't make this I don't even under.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how to begin All right, well, listen, some people cannot be reached.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: No.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: So don't bang your head, thank you for saying that.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for saying that I think it's important for us to say what you just said it's just a fact.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's true, yeah.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Although I will tell you that sometimes, when it hits their own family, they do wake up Okay, so it might be a child or a niece or a nephew or you know and then they wake up and say, now, hold on a minute, just like, hold on.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: This child was always happy as a boy, you know.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: He's now 15 or 18 or 10 years old, like what you know, and just went through a lot of trauma and has autism, like there's more going on here.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: But when they hear about other children and they and it's all you know, it's framed in this context of their, their suffering, and this is the one thing that they need to be their true selves, and it is based on science and you know all these falsehoods.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: But look, we're.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: I want to just listen before we finish.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: I know we're going to end soon.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: We are winning.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: We are still winning.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like every day there's another item in the news or another organization or another country.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, just was it yesterday or the day before yesterday?
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Some leaders in the American Society of Plastic Surgeons Right, yeah, I saw that.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a-s-p-s are speaking out and they're saying well, no, you know, we don't believe there's enough evidence to do these procedures.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: No, you know, we're skeptical.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: We have to be very, very cautious.
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: So that is huge because they weren't speaking up before.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: And their surgeons plastic surgeons are the ones that are doing the mastectomies on little girls and these are the ones that are, you know, castrating and making fake vaginas in minor boys.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: So it's a very big thing we are winning.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Every day there's another crack in the edifice and I would say, if you're trying to convince people, well, read my book, just remind-.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of detransitioners out there too aren't there, Dr Grossman On the other hand, the British Medical Association and the American Medical Association, and, I think, the endocrinologists, have come out and pushed back against the CAST review, the CAST report, and are saying well, no, this gender-affirming care is the right way to go.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how people that have such extensive degrees can come out and say that this is good.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I just don't get it.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I think it has to be the capture again right that Dr Grossman was talking about.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: It has to be this ideological capture of education and the medical field and we see it in the teachers and certainly you both know that degrees, diplomas on the wall is inversely related to common sense.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: And I'll also add in terms of the British Medical Association.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: The British Medical Association that you're right has come out critical of the CAST review, but hundreds of their doctors have now left that association.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I know Several hundred of them resigned.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: So it's just important for everyone to know that this is a raging debate that's going on right now.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, you can have people listen to my testimony in Congress also, which.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I think is very powerful.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: When did you testify there?
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: That was last June of 23.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, but it's still very, and there's been like 1.3 million.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: It's excellent.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: It is good, I have to say, and I was sitting right next to one of the you know gender leaders of gender affirming medicine was right next to me.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: How did that feel?
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Did you?
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Did you slap him while you got, when you left, or?
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I didn't know I was going to have to sit next to her, but they told me there was no choice yeah she was rolling her eyes, but you know what they can roll their eyes.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: All we want is is established permanently at conception.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: Everyone knows that who's taken.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: You know 10th grade biology or even sixth grade biology, but they are changing that.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I want kids to know the very first time they hear somebody say sex assigned at birth.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: I want them to just look and say sex assigned at birth.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: No, to just look and say sex assigned at birth, no, no, no, no, no Sex.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: My sex was established the second, I was created.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for that.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: And as we wind down here, maybe I get one more quick question and Tom gets one more just quick one.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I, you know, you know who Billboard Chris is, I would imagine, and I get a kick out of him and I'm encouraged by his courage.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: But he would say something, and I found it because of what you said the abuse of the language.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean, we have a real abuse of language going on.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: We have for a long time.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: I kind of like this and I wanted to get your opinion on this, because people, I've had this conversation, these conversations all the time and they're all confused what is gender, what is sex?
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: How do they relate?
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: And I just stop them now and I could be doing it wrong, but it seems to work, dr Grossman, I just do a billboard Chris.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I just said, you know, there's just two sexes and a child was born, either a boy or a girl, and they were born beautiful the way they are, in a multitude of unique and unrepeatable ways.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Right, each human being is actually created in a unique and unrepeatable way, as a boy or a girl, right?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and there are very Is that a good start, or should I do something else?
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you can say there are very.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: No, that's perfect.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: There are very rare instances of people who have chromosome disorders or endocrine disorders and, for one reason or another, their genitalia do not appear as they should, you could say, or as they standardly would, but that does not mean they are something other than male or female.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, there's still only there's no third sex.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: And even those children can be identified, can't they?
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: By some?
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: There's something innate within them that still shows, or no?
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you have to.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Basically, if you have a Y chromosome, your reproductive system is designed to create sperm and that determines maleness.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: Now, not all of these people who might have a disorder of sexual development actually are fertile.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: Some of them may not be able to produce eggs or sperm, but their bodies are still.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: Their reproductive systems are organized around the potential of either egg or sperm production egg or sperm production but it's very important.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: You see, the reason why the opposition has brought in these disorders of sexual development, slash intersex people into this argument, is they want to, just, they want people to believe number one, that that's very, very common, which it is not, and they want people to think that it's also part of the whole transgender thing.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: No, the transgender thing is completely separate from the intersex issue and the intersex individuals are not happy that the proponents of gender ideology are bringing them in to this whole discussion, because transgender individuals are almost always physically normal and healthy.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Very good.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for that, and Thomas, yeah, you want to bring us home?
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: There's actually a couple of things.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: First of all, I'd like to encourage you to update your we're teaching you're, you're teaching our child, my child, what.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I would love to see an update of that, because there's been such a terrible decline in the quality of sex education now and it's becoming more and more depraved.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I think people need to be alerted to that.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: It's one of the things that we're trying to alert people to, and the other thing is that I'm interested in how we can help you achieve your goals with your book the Lost and Transnation, and how can we help you get that message out to people in the best way.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, Thank you.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: First of all, you're teaching my child what it did come out as paperback.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: So there is that.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Not long ago it came out as a paperback.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Oh good.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: You know, it's less expensive and everything that I say there is still true.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: It's still valid.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know about an update.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: I'll I'll think about that, but I would say this for now, though what you just said is so important when I read that, I read it 10 years after you published it, maybe, and then read it again recently, and that could have been written this morning, that could have been written this morning.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: It's just so well done.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Well, the only thing that I add in there is that the material that's coming out from Planned Parenthood and some of these others have become so depraved, and the online material that children are being directed to by the schools is just horrendous.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Much worse than it was in 2009.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: to Washington in a few weeks and I really hope they're going to have congressional hearings on this issue, because I want organizations and people to be held responsible for this.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: It's depraved, it's a nightmare.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Let me just add that Lost in Transnation is also available as an audiobook now.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: I have to sit down with a 300-page book.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: I did the narration of the audio version.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: It was a lot of fun.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: I became very passionate as I was reading it.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: There's a ton of stuff on my website.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have wonderful resources too there.
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: So thank you so much for everything you do and thank you so much for having me.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: So your courage has encouraged Tom and I through a lot of talks that we've done.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: We get thrown out of a library and we look at it as a very tiny little thing compared to what Dr Miriam Grossman has gone through.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: So God bless you.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Courage feels like fear a lot, I mean.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: When I'm being courageous I feel fear so people need to know that courage it doesn't mean you're here, it means having fear and still doing what you need to do.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: That's right, absolutely, and I just love seeing these parents standing up at the you know, the school, the district meetings, oh gosh.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: They're so great reading and, like what you did, reading the books right out of the library, these amenities that, oh, but it's from your library.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Hey God bless you, thank you again so much.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate your time.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks for your patience through a couple of internet glitches here this this afternoon.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate it.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: Thank you, okay, thank you so much.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Bye-bye.