Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Tár with Costume Designer, Bina Daigeler

Transcript

Tár with Costume Designer, Bina Daigeler · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:43
Hello. Welcome to the Arctic costume
0:45
blogcast. I am your host Spencer Williams,
0:48
and thank you so much for joining me for another bonus
0:51
episode. Today's episode is all about one
0:54
of my new favorite movies tar, featuring The Incredible cable,
0:59
and shut, you know, How much I love her.
1:01
She definitely needs to get Oscar nomination for this film.
1:04
It was just so good. One of my favorite movies of
1:07
2022. Honestly, you have to see it,
1:10
but today's episode is not just about Kate.
1:12
Blanchet is about the incredible costumes by costume designer,
1:16
being a diag ler. And I am so excited to say that
1:19
we got an exclusive interview with being a talking, all about
1:23
the costumes from tar. But before we jump into it, as
1:26
always, I want to dive behind a wardrobe and give everyone some
1:29
Facts about this film. So let's start with summary
1:32
shall we set in the international world of Western
1:35
classical music. Tar centers on l'idiot are
1:39
widely considered one of the greatest living composer
1:42
conductors and first ever female music directors of a major
1:46
German Orchestra Lydia. Tars days away from recording
1:49
this Symphony that will Elevate her career until things get.
1:53
Let's just say a little loud so going behind a wardrobe.
1:58
This film was directed by Hartfield and costume design by
2:02
Bina daikeler. UNL Bina from some incredible
2:06
work such as Miss America, for which she was nominated for AME
2:10
Mulan, for which she was nominated for an Oscar and
2:13
actually won a costume designers, Guild award that
2:16
year. She also designed the costumes
2:18
for the film, the zookeepers wife, narcos, 1899 and all about
2:23
my mother. Now without further Ado, I am so
2:27
excited to play for you all to interview.
2:29
I had Add with Bina die. Gloor enjoy.
2:47
Hi. This is Dan.
2:48
Audio engineer of the blogcast? Just wanted to let you know
2:52
that. If you'd like to support the
2:53
show, you can become a patron at patreon.com slash the art of
2:59
costume. There.
3:00
We post, unheard bloopers highlights and bonus episodes,
3:05
just for our patrons. Make sure to check out the
3:08
description for all of our links and thank you for all of your
3:12
support. Let's talk about Tire.
3:33
I am in love with this movie. I walked out and I was instantly
3:38
like I can't wait for this interview teared up a little
3:40
bit. It's just so fun.
3:42
Also, so powerful and emotional tie, really brings you into very
3:47
specific. International world of classical
3:49
music. It's a very Niche world that
3:52
some of us might not be very familiar with Lydia is a chief
3:56
conductor of a major German Orchestra.
3:59
How did you prepare for this project?
4:01
Well, I definitely I did a lot of research and somehow I crash
4:06
course on classical music. Okay the good thing is that the
4:10
base of my work is at the beginning, always the script and
4:16
so I had a very specific Script. I had a very good well-written,
4:21
deep emotional script to read and then I started to do
4:29
research on all the thousands of details that taught field had
4:33
written into it. And I asked a lot of questions
4:40
and luckily require always there to answer them. because
4:45
obviously, I'm from Germany and so for example, order New York
4:50
part and everything to know about Julie arts and all the
4:57
characters that appears and every location or that, like, I
5:02
had to research because everything was connected and had
5:05
a reason why it is this hotel, why it is that location, why we
5:11
are in a Linker Center, everything was connected and And
5:15
so yeah, I started on that and then obviously, I did a little
5:22
epic research on conductors and the music world and listen to
5:28
the classical music and it's very fun.
5:31
I mean, it's not often. I hear designers talk about
5:34
having to listen to classical music as part of preparation.
5:37
It's actually quite exciting. It was really exciting.
5:41
Yeah. All right, let's talk about
5:43
Lydia played. The iconic kids Blanche set my
5:47
absolute favorite killed that. By the way, just such an amazing
5:52
performance. I was blown away by this
5:55
character, her costumes include modern and contemporary
5:58
elements. While also maintaining a style
6:01
that gives off power and success, her costumes are also
6:05
kind of loose and flowy that goes along with the character.
6:08
So for her quintessential costumes.
6:11
What was your idea behind her costumes?
6:14
What? In the process of the design?
6:17
I normally do like a mood board. Okay.
6:20
First of all, I think the mood board that is more an emotional
6:25
mood board that presents everything.
6:28
What happens in the movie and it was quite an aggressive and dark
6:36
mood board, but very interesting.
6:39
And then I did for each character.
6:43
I looked up for My moods and obviously, I looked into all the
6:48
female contactor set are around, but I also looked into the male
6:54
conductors and also like from all the periods and they are, I
6:59
talk a lot of Inspirations for her costumes and I tailored a
7:07
lot of things for her. That you also can see in the
7:11
movie, The tailored suit, And there are definitely moments
7:17
that Lydia Todd knows very well how to dress up, even though
7:21
that I think she's not a character that really cares
7:24
about wardrobe. Like she she cares about nice
7:29
things. Obviously she has a very high
7:33
level of like income and and you can see that but everyday, like
7:40
she just puts the clothes on and goes to work and And doesn't
7:45
think now really to look amazing every day, but she does.
7:50
Just does because the cost the Wardrobe is, it's a rich
7:54
wardrobe. Yeah, I could not agree more,
7:57
it's very rich, very powerful. But then like you said, it's not
8:01
that her wardrobe is not always at the top of mind as well.
8:04
Either. She's really invested in her
8:06
work. That is very good.
8:08
How you said, it's not on top of her mind.
8:11
That's she just, she has that who are Also it and she goes and
8:14
she gets stressed and she goes to work, and is already in her
8:17
music world, right? It's just she's so cool.
8:21
Just happens that way or she walks out looking amazing.
8:24
Yeah. How did you settle on her color
8:28
palettes? I love it.
8:29
It's very dark and gloomy but still like you said, very rich
8:33
and sophisticated. I definitely wanted the to look
8:37
sophisticated and I think that the color stayed, they fit very
8:42
into Berlin. In because of most Berlin was
8:46
also an inspiration for her work because she lives there.
8:50
And somehow always when you are living in a city that that
8:54
translates also into your way, how you dress and it was an
8:59
Autumn film. So it was cold.
9:02
Also for conductor obviously colors like black and colors
9:09
that don't distract. The orchestra are important.
9:13
So that also reflected my color palette that make sense?
9:18
Yeah. Interesting.
9:20
Yeah, that makes sense. It can't, distract from the
9:23
performance is happening in front of them.
9:26
This is a very intimate film. There are moments where I felt
9:29
like I was the only one in the theater at times.
9:31
It's just me and Lydia not that wear anything the same, but
9:37
still, I just really felt like I was there in the moment with
9:39
her. I imagine because it's such an
9:42
intimate film your collaboration.
9:43
With Kate and Todd field, must have been very personal and very
9:47
collaborative. I imagine it was very personal
9:51
and the good thing is that I have already a good relationship
9:55
with Kate, right? So, we got straight into our
10:00
creator vision and we know how our fittings are, and they are
10:07
very personal and we discuss it a lot.
10:11
We we go through the script backward.
10:13
But and we jump, and we do this and that, you know, from like
10:18
the storyline and this thought, my work was for me.
10:24
Unbelievable Pleasant because we are the same age, I admire his
10:32
vision of movie making, it's just amazing his knowledge and
10:38
his general knowledge fascinates me and it was Super inspiring
10:44
everything. What he could tell me about the
10:48
characters about the world of the musicians and, and about the
10:54
essence of the movie, that what happens to such a creative
11:00
person. And when she got stressed
11:03
driven, I guess by her ambition, and by her power and loses it
11:09
somehow. And what happens then also
11:12
around To. And I found that a very
11:16
interesting subject, right? And it's very personal.
11:21
You could end it read it, read on screen as well.
11:24
To just a very detail-oriented collaboration between you your
11:29
crew and everyone on set, okay? We have to talk about this
11:34
costume specifically, Lydia's, Maestro costume that she wears.
11:40
I actually saw one of them in person last night at the
11:43
theater. Ders and I was just struck by
11:45
the tailoring. It's, it's brilliant at took my
11:48
breath away when I saw it. I also felt heavily inspired by
11:51
like a more recognizable Maestro that I could think of.
11:55
In my head tell me about this look, specifically it was
12:00
definitely inspired by all the classics classic conduct us for
12:07
the New Year Eve's concert in Vienna or things like that.
12:10
That was really classical, interesting.
12:14
Actually, these are we obviously tailored the tail coat for her
12:19
and we made the shirt. They were two different looks.
12:22
Actually, what we are looking at about one was with the waistcoat
12:27
and the other one was with a cummerbund and there are two
12:30
different shirts. So we always modernized it a
12:34
little bit and also said, tailcoat is not really the
12:39
classical tailcoat. We inspired by 19th century,
12:44
tailcoat. And that gave gave it a little
12:48
bit like, like, on the mole. Mr. Or Yohji Yamamoto.
12:55
Look, what most interesting for us, it, I think it gets the
13:00
feeling, even though, perhaps, you can't really see it, but for
13:05
her really, it was a very modern piece to wear even so that the
13:09
inspiration was very classic and period.
13:13
Feeling that read on screen because when I saw it did feel
13:17
very modern compared to I guess my prior idea of what a maestro
13:22
costume would look like it. Did feel very modern perfect for
13:26
Lydia tar. Pitch is one of my favorite
13:29
moments of the film. Thank you.
13:33
Another part. I love is just how authentic and
13:36
real. The costumes were in the film.
13:38
You have a great talent of making the costumes tell so much
13:43
about the story. Dory.
13:44
But then also blending into the background and let the actress.
13:47
And this point Cate Blanchett really just actor ass off while
13:52
the costumes, just really help support the character.
13:55
Tell me about these more casual moments and your philosophy
13:59
behind the costuming. But me, my field of philosophy
14:03
really is in contemporary movies that I have to translate the
14:09
emotions into wardrobe, right? And do that based on my instinct
14:16
for the right material or the perfect color and also what I
14:24
like is that normally I prep a closet for each actor but I
14:31
leave the final decision for a more moment when we start to
14:39
dress and when we, when we are closer to the scene That we then
14:44
really shoot because there's always like a learning process.
14:49
Hmm, during the filming and you learn every day, more about the
14:56
character. And for example on top and it
15:00
was extremely difficult for cake, but on the other side it
15:05
was also amazing. We started with all the concert
15:12
hall we started with They're conducting.
15:16
And that showed us really what it means to be a conductor and
15:22
for her, how much power it gives.
15:24
When you're standing in front of an orchestra, then once we have
15:29
that done for example we did even a gene special for this
15:34
moment because she needed like a higher waist that really
15:39
supported her. That was very important for her
15:43
for the conducting. And then with all that what we
15:46
learned it was easier to create and to take the decisions for
15:51
all the other scenes where we go and when she will be softer or
15:56
when is the moment where you use the leather jacket and I like to
16:02
build it up like that. Hmm.
16:05
So I'm very often onset. I'm very often.
16:09
They are just to get all the emotions and to be Available to
16:15
discuss the scene in this kind of film.
16:22
Obviously, when I do period you you it's different because you
16:27
do you have to pre create every single change because it's long
16:32
process to make them and to build them and to construct
16:35
them. So they everything is much more
16:38
defined already. But in a contemporary, you can
16:42
work much more. More out of the water up that
16:45
you built and then you can put it together every day.
16:51
It's more flexible. Well, that's incredible.
16:54
I could listen to you forever. Those was very fascinating.
16:59
I'm going to try to steer away from Lydia for just a moment
17:02
because I could talk about Cate Blanchett forever.
17:06
Another huge star in this film is the incredible Orchestra?
17:10
How did your team go about the costuming of?
17:13
Did you have The actual Orchestra members show up in
17:16
their own garments to do pre-plan all these outfits, it's
17:20
very complicated. How I imagined it in my head, it
17:26
was complicated because there were strict rules.
17:29
We can't dress the musicians because they don't have time for
17:34
us because we had all the time on the stage, right.
17:39
They have other things to do. Exactly.
17:41
And obviously, I said, well, Well, then they look like a box
17:46
of Lego's because everybody will wear another color and it will
17:50
be very colorful. And I don't know if that is the
17:54
right thing for our movie and also because we were shooting in
17:58
summer and obviously the rest of the film was set up in Autumn,
18:02
and those Davis had, no, you have done, really don't have
18:05
time to change that. And just obviously, once you are
18:10
there and you connect to the right people, So, we had our
18:16
background crew, the backup dressers, and we are in the
18:21
hallway. And so the musicians, when they
18:24
came in, they had to pass by us and we change them.
18:31
And actually, I think the most patients loved it, and they were
18:34
happy to come in 5 minutes earlier and that it was just
18:38
like quick, you know, and we made it happen.
18:41
Just put the fucking knew it, it was Our secret, our cost of
18:45
debt. Then everybody always said, oh,
18:48
they look good. I don't know what you're talking
18:50
about and I said, yeah, they look really good.
18:52
Yeah, it does come like that. I don't know how that happened.
19:07
That's hilarious. Two other characters.
19:11
Who didn't have such a Time was Sharon and Francesca.
19:17
They go through their own Journeys alongside Lydia.
19:19
Do you mind walking me through these characters and their
19:23
costuming? Yeah that was very interesting
19:26
because the character Francesca know, Amy was the first one, I
19:32
had to dress because there was like a pretty shrewd with her.
19:36
Okay. And there was like, definitely A
19:41
trenchcoat involved and so finding the right trench coat
19:45
was because I had exactly something in mind, but I found
19:50
it in my favorite shop in Madrid.
19:52
So I was super happy when I found that trench coat nice and
19:57
I had like an inspirational picture from.
20:02
I don't remember in Instagram that I just laughed and I sent
20:09
it to her and she liked it too. And then we just went for this.
20:13
Style. That is also, it's more
20:17
feminine, but it still is a little bit more but not
20:21
straightforward feminine and it's also business.
20:24
She also dresses up, according to be in the well position in
20:31
the filler Moni and I loved her. Her colors and I think it really
20:40
suited her character. And with Nina horse, it was
20:46
interesting because in the fittings, I had much more items
20:54
with patterns. She wasn't.
20:56
So, we started from another style and then we realized
21:04
during the rehearsals in the film money.
21:07
And with an orchestra, We learned so much about who about
21:12
who is a premier violinist and what really is going on how much
21:18
he knows from Lydia, how Lydia is what she always accepted at
21:23
how much power, she always had all also has, and when I saw
21:29
now, the second time the movie, I realized that often they are
21:34
similar, it's just another texture and another material.
21:39
yeah, but Lydia and Sharon they are similar and I don't mind it.
21:46
I actually think it was the right decision because They are
21:52
strong power couple and it's a long-term relationship and I
22:01
think also that like showed us showed the audience that they
22:05
were really strongly connected, right.
22:09
I also think it's interesting too, because Sharon, I won't
22:12
Point mentions that she feels like all of Lydia's
22:15
relationships are transactional and in a way that's really
22:18
interesting because maybe Lydia is benefiting from this
22:22
relationship and almost sees Sharon has another extension of
22:25
herself which the cost me really kind of supports that a little
22:29
bit. Yeah.
22:31
And I mean, they are moment special.
22:33
For example, girls, skirts and much more floaty things than
22:39
Kate. But there are also moments where
22:41
they look very similar and I wasn't sure how the audience
22:48
will accept that. But for me, Now, that I saw the
22:53
film several times, I stay up for it.
22:56
I think I stand up for it. I think it was the right
22:59
decision. It expresses my feelings that I
23:03
had for the couple, so that's wonderful.
23:05
I think it was also the right decision it.
23:09
Yeah. There's a lot of character
23:11
detailing happening in these costumes.
23:13
So, just wonderful. We also have another character
23:18
Olga she is new to the orchestra and she has a Give an edge to
23:22
her, a little rock and roll as far as one can be, in Orchestra,
23:26
Orchestra as such, but when I saw her and does little, I
23:31
believe his like a blue velvet, boo, perhaps, I don't remember,
23:34
but it was, I was like, okay, this cool.
23:36
This girl is cool. Tell me about creating the
23:40
costumes for Olga then all that was like, the biggest change,
23:46
like a huge Danger from natural. Look to the look how she
23:51
appears. In the movie.
23:53
And like this beige puffy blouse for me, somehow was her Russian
24:02
background. Don't ask me why?
24:08
And I also like, I tried to have her eggs, she, because she lives
24:13
in Berlin, she is Russian. So, I tried excited to give her
24:19
a little bit and Edge. And that somehow she tries to be
24:24
appropriate dress for her new job, like being part of of the
24:32
Pakistan. But on the other side she still
24:35
has something like more age and of course, also I wanted to have
24:43
in certain moments attractive and sensual and that, for
24:49
example, for me, The moment when she comes and place at Lydia's
24:57
studio and she was the long black dress and has the added
25:03
Sleepless and you can see her skin.
25:06
It's an important moment for me because if you go dressed like
25:11
that to somebody's place, it's also it says something and that
25:17
means something. And so I think that My costumes.
25:24
They ask a lot of questions, if you look at them, and I think
25:29
the whole movie is in the way down that there are more
25:34
questions and there are no answers.
25:36
And so that makes it so deep. And that is what so touching,
25:41
because you go home, and you still have to find your own
25:45
answers, or you don't find it, and that is much more.
25:50
This Disturbing and also interesting because if you go
25:55
and watch a movie and you have all the answers to go home and
25:59
say, okay, this is it. But here, what is really you?
26:04
You don't know. You can see.
26:06
And and that is what the movie also shows.
26:08
You take the jewel yards seen, you can interpret at this scene
26:13
in so many different ways and that is also, what is shown in
26:18
the movie, you know? Understatement.
26:22
Yeah. It's like you see one version
26:25
and then you see the internet version and you see how much
26:30
something can be interpreted in different ways, right?
26:36
Yeah, your costumes really do open up a lot of questions and
26:39
leave a lot of room for storytelling through the
26:42
costume. Designing.
26:43
It's, it's a very interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing
26:46
this film a second time so I could really just you back it.
26:50
Really? Take it all in.
26:53
And as you mentioned earlier, I actually don't have a picture
26:55
for this next question. But as you mentioned earlier,
27:00
Lydia's life, kind of unravels a little bit there by the end,
27:04
another understatement. We see her gearing up for what
27:08
feels like a pretty big performance but instead she's
27:12
performing at a pretty wildly costumed event.
27:16
I believe it has to do with monster hunter.
27:19
Perhaps yes. And when I say, okay, when I saw
27:24
this I was like, this is abena degler classic.
27:28
Remind me a little bit of some of your previous work.
27:30
So how did you go about this part?
27:34
It was very funny because the Monster Hunters, you know, like
27:40
I had two scenes that I just because I had so much work that
27:45
there were two scenes that I trust like ignored.
27:47
You know, when you ignore something from and from your
27:50
to-do list it it always comes up to the end and it all and that
27:54
was the tailoring scene and the Monster Hunter scene.
27:59
Oh well, two big things, exactly.
28:01
The biggest things I just like ignore them.
28:05
And my budget went smaller and smaller smaller smaller and then
28:08
they come like, oh gosh, okay so Todd, how do you see these
28:15
monsters? And then when he told me what he
28:18
wanted I thought oh gosh. How would I do that now?
28:22
Have four weeks left, how did he do that?
28:26
And so the build up a workroom and I got some very inspired
28:32
young people in. Not a lot like one and the
28:35
others were Mike a lot a K1 and then the wind like to tease
28:42
dollar shops and we brought in a lot of everything and then just
28:49
everybody created. Costumes.
28:52
It was like everybody who is suddenly didn't have anything
28:55
else to do was just coming by. And like, we were creating and
28:59
creating and creating. And I think we had, we had like
29:02
hundred and fifty costumes at the end.
29:04
Wow. And I mean, you'll see them just
29:06
a second but they were so amazing.
29:10
They were really amazing. So it was a lot of fun, right?
29:14
I mean you see them for a second but it's like a very long
29:17
second. Yeah.
29:19
But is this really odd? Second.
29:21
Then I said to taught hand, we do another like an for with
29:26
another camera. And he said, no, because this is
29:30
it. I always told you we will see it
29:32
here from the site. Yes, I know.
29:35
But is it not? Well, it was a very powerful.
29:41
Second, I will say I was blown away my audience actually
29:45
started laughing. You know what?
29:47
I think most of the people, they, they don't realize, Eyes.
29:52
This last scene with the Monster Hunters, most of the people,
29:55
they don't, they are so blown away from Kate, they don't know
30:01
that they don't realize, they won't stop us.
30:03
So they don't realize what's actually happening.
30:07
That's so funny. Well, when they go back and
30:09
watch a second time to Rio look at all these costumes, I was I
30:14
was stunned and people around me were laughing.
30:17
It was just like one like long powerful second.
30:20
So yeah, it was Fantastic. I loved it was a perfect ending.
30:26
That does nice to. Yeah.
30:28
It was, it was a worth it. S Bina.
30:31
Okay. But we're nearing the end here
30:37
overall. I'm absolutely in love with this
30:39
film. As I've said, now a hundred
30:41
times it was so powerful, just overall, how would you describe
30:45
your experience and what do you feel like you took away from
30:48
this film especially with so much of it being based in
30:51
Berlin? I imagine this film must have
30:53
meant something to you. I took only gratitude, it was it
31:01
just meant to be for me, it was the movie that I meant to do
31:06
with the people and I am so grateful that I met Todd field
31:12
and I'm so grateful that I worked with Kate again and with
31:16
Nina and there's no Amy and with Sophie and it was a really,
31:23
really creative process. And I had an amazing team.
31:28
I was just surrounded by good people and I really, really
31:32
enjoyed it. It was one of these movies that
31:35
you just say, oh gosh. Thank you that.
31:39
I was the costume designer. I mean, I, I was not a costume
31:45
designer, but when I walked out I was like that was something
31:48
I've not seen in a while. All and I was just very happy to
31:51
have gone and seen it. So thank you being
31:54
congratulations. It was such an amazing film and
31:56
I'm so happy I got to talk with you.
31:59
Thank you. That's so kind.
32:05
You're out of costume. Blogcast is hosted and produced
32:08
by Elizabeth Joy, glass, and Spencer Williams.
32:12
Our audio engineering and editing is done by Dan White.
32:16
Follow us on Instagram, at the art of costume pod or visit the
32:21
art of costume blogcast.com. For all blogcast updates, if you
32:26
want to support the show, go to the art of costume.com / Cod
32:31
store or or you can head over to patreon.com/scishow.
32:36
Art of costing Horsham bonus content for more costume reviews
32:40
deep, Dives and interviews head over to the art of costume.com a
32:46
Blog dedicated to highlighting the best and costume design.