Latest / OCCULTINARIUM / Occultinarium - EP 32 - 2 of Swords
Transcript
- Lynn: Hello and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium and tonight's hosts are Luigi: Luigi Amelie: Amelie Lynn: and Lynn. Tonight we shall explore another one of our tarot cards following the Decans of the Year. And tonight we shall explore the first Decan of Libra. A decan that lasts from the 23rd of September to the 2nd of October. And it marks well, you know, we're going from the Pentacles from the Town of Pentacles, which we just had released an episode on. to the second of Libra and the in between is the equinox, right? So it's another marking of a season and a start of a new yeah season of the year. The marking Amelie: marking of the season. Lynn: of a season with the two of swords, as we have classically in the Smith deck, a lady is sitting in front of the ocean blindfolded with two swords cross in her hand and in the Thoth we also have two cross swords in front of a flower a lotus flower so these are our two classical images and it's called the yeah Amelie: mean, there will be a lot of cross swords. Lynn: we Lot of Crossed Swords yes Amelie: is Lynn: the Lord and Lady of Peace the planetary ruler of this deck yeah is in the descending order the moon luna and in the triplicity order Venus and as for the original decanic images for this first deck in of Libra we get a few images of for example people with trumpets so there's this idea of waking up the sleeping much like we would see it in the judgment car in the Smith deck. So a person with a trumpet and getting the unconscious people, moon, Luna, the unconscious people, to wake So that's kind of the that's kind of the decanic original vibe. the tarot cards went a bit more into a little bit of a different different nuance, I suppose. but yeah, it's it's we still have this kind of unconsciousness, I think, in the cards. In the Smith card anyway, with the woman with a blindfold. Or we could call a Justicia the justice. Which is also the season, Libra. Yeah. and yeah, let's let's kick it off. I mean, Luna, right? I mean with with Luna we having all this unconscious the themes of the unconscious or of the of intuition and here, right? You can see the moon up here and we have the intuition both represented with, you know, blindfolds, with the waters are very connected to intuition, be not emotions in a sense and the Venus part of the deck in Venus is also about mm you know justice in a sense balance between people like Venus is very interested in having like a balance between one and the other because then you have a good relationship right so it Luigi: You would hope. Lynn: you you yeah you you would hope if there's a balance Amelie: For me it's Lynn: Hm. Amelie: like the subconscious of the card is I don't find it that, I don't know, it might look quite passive because it's peace, but at the same time, like for me, maybe it's also because it's swords, it's not passive in here because she's so focused. So it's not passive in a way for me personally. Lynn: It might be passive in action, but it's not passive in the mind, right? Because you have with the with the twos, Amelie: Mm. Yeah, exactly. Lynn: you have like this unbound pure energy of the element, right? So again, like you now we're in the beginning of the the the swords and we all know and we all feel like we a lot of swords cards are bit unpopular because there's a lot of conflict on the swords, but the two of swords is like one of the least problematic or very little problematic. Amelie: It's called peace. Lynn: It's called peace. I mean that shadow size to everything and to every card. You can read the obvious I you can easily just read the opposite, right? You're not if you do not have that state, you know, as the simplest version, but as its purest form, just depicting the pure form of the mind when the mind is at its best, basically, that is when the mind is in a state of peace or calm or focus or meditation or just this inner calm, yeah. And I think everybody needs a bit of that energy sometimes. And Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: it's not Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: not always that easy to to entertain, is it? Amelie: like the modern world is basically penetrating that feeling too much, too much. Lynn: Hm, yeah. That's just the opposite of doom scrolling. Like this is where you're actually focusing on something. With your mind like Amelie: Exactly. Lynn: So yeah. Yeah. How do you feel about the card, Luigi? That's me. Yeah. Luigi: think it's one of my favourites. yeah, I think y you hinted at it in the beginning of the conversation, but I think it's reassuring to know that 'cause in the number twos we explore like the nature of the elemental force at play and to know that in theory or practice the nature of our minds is to reach or inspire or to bring at least peace. mental peace at least. And I agree as well, like I don't I mean activity and passivity sometimes can be subjective to some extent, but one can argue that because of the complicated world that we live in, it's actually a very active effort effort to reach and achieve peace, isn't it? Like it's not something that come not comes natural to the average person anymore. there's too much stimulation, there's too many triggers. so yeah, I also think it's such it's such a what's the word I'm looking for? There's so much of the force of the number two within it, because obviously we have the two of swords, and then when if we use the Smith correspondences, we will have the Libra sign corresponding to the justice card which would be an eleven too reduced. and then we have our beloved Luna, which again if we go through correspondence, she will be the Aradia, the priestess, which is the second in the sequence of the major. Lynn: Right. Luigi: So there's a lot of like two two two two two two two two two Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: so there's a sense of The purest well maybe not purest, maybe that's wrong of me to say that. But if not purest, the clearest the clearest aspect of the power of number two, or at least in true life tree of life terms, the clearest aspect of the power of Chokhmah the wisdom of it. Lynn: Sometimes y you get I think or one would get this idea that the active elements might be a bit preferred. I mean we know like in like Crowley definitely preferred the wands over over most other elements for reasons, but yeah, because like air like that I don't know, I have a s I have the sense that a bunch of magicians would focus more on air and and fire as like the top elements. And in a way and then there are, right. There are the the bot the the the top and then, you know, air and water are on the bottom but you know. I don't know. There's Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: I feel that's a bit of a favouritism in what people work with or what kind of energies they like. I mean it does make sense if you want to get something moving, if you want to actually actively do something, it makes sense to go in and and use the active elements in a way. But that was just a side note, it was just something that popped into my head. that like favouritism. Luigi: No, but it's a fair observation. Lynn: Everything has its yeah. It has its place of course. all of it. Amelie: sometimes think about that when you get different decks because some decks put different elements at first because we have you know I assume that the three of us go by the Thoth way of putting the the wands first but I've seen decks that put pentacles first sometimes I've seen decks that put the air first as well and I'm not really sure like why are they going with it but I thought maybe that's some kind of favouritism. Luigi: Possibly, possibly. Another thing about the card that attra not attracts me only, but yeah, attracts me but also that intrigues me. especially in the Smith at the very least. And we can also speak about the Tough and the other decks, but in the Smith there is a huge predominance of the color white and the colour blue. and I find that yes, exactly. So so And even with the blindfold, the blindfold is technically a white cloth for the blindfold, isn't it? and I think that suggests because a lot of the times many interpretation will come out as you need to remove the blindfold, you're not seeing clearly, you're not able to make a choice. And we're not here to Yeah, Lynn: Justice is blind. Luigi: exactly. And we're not here to determine whether or not these kind of interpretations are good or or not. That's not up to us, I suppose. But What I would say with the maiden with Justicia all covered in white and blindfolded in white, it does bring up the principles of Kether you know, the ill illuminance of Kether if approached by a human state, will completely blind you. Almost as if only through seeing only through by seeing through the heart or by seeing through your channeling powers your your your astral projections and whatnot like Not by mechanical means, only f by seeing Kether or experience Kether or perceive Kether the infinite light, the limitless light, but not from mechanical means, from maybe meditative and mysticism related means, that's how you connect to it and that's how maybe you unlock peace. Whether the blue, it's echoing of Chesed sitting underneath Chokhmah which is in its right connected to each other. by the Hierophant or the Sage. And both of them, you know, Libra and Taurus, being ruled by Venus. so there is a beautiful dynamic there going on. Lynn: Yeah. I mean it also reflects the colours. I mean we know that that the moon is like the planet moon, right, is represented by silver, very pastely blues, like pastel kind of colours, white sometimes and Venus' color is also white. So you actually have the decanic colours represented in the card in that way as well. So that that also makes sense. And and and picking up on that what you said with with removing the blindfold or not or all that, you you just also mentioned earlier this distraction, right? That we're distracted by things and the more we're distracted the less we do we actually see. But when we remove that sentence and most of our nowadays in this era of time this time and and you know there went our cat distractions he got distracted by his food machine just now Luigi: bless. Lynn: jumped off my lap yes so with the distractions right so when you actively shut off that Yeah, I was gonna say, there you go. that the one sense that we're mostly distracted by and with these days is our eyes. Right. We I mean we are very visual creatures, right? Human beings. But we look at stuff, you know, scrolling one thing, next thing, another post, like it's all going through the eyes and that's how we get like boo boo, that's how we get all the information, that's how we get all this but you know. the doom scrolling, it's all happening through the eyes. And if you remove that, you remove probably ninety percent, ninety five percent of all distractions and then you can focus. And it's not I mean, and it's also not a coincidence that if you were to meditate, in there's just there's not gonna be a lot of people who are gonna be like, meditate with your eyes open. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: You know, if you're very advanced, you know, or something, you can do it. But I mean as for like the actual practice you clot like you close your eyes to be able to focus. Luigi: Yeah. So if anything, it's an invitation to raising your shield in a way, like you know, raising raising your pro bubble of protection, whether you wanna take that physically or l or literally or metaphorically. Like it's an invitation not to necessarily purely isolate, but for lack of better words, yes to isolate so that you can remove yourself from the stimulus. Or AKA the distraction. Lynn: Wouldn't it more that be like putting like laying down your shield? 'Cause it's peace, rather than raising it? 'Cause if you were to raise it then you protect Luigi: Yes, yeah. I think Lynn: try to protect yourself from something, right? Luigi: Yeah, I think the way that I am thinking about it, it's like so I think as an individual, I'm gonna speak for myself, I tend to be very alerted, you know, like what was that? Well especially in a city like London, we have a f a a fame, you know, we have a bit of a stereotype s or whatever we wanna call it, that if somebody approaches you and says, Good day to you, you're like, Whoa, what what are you saying that for? you know? Amelie: That's just being self-aware. That's just being aware of your surroundings. That's being aware of your surroundings Lynn: Don't cur curse me. Luigi: Exactly. Amelie: and you have to be that when you're in London specifically. Luigi: Exactly. But meditations you're not if you're gonna constantly be so self aware, I suppose, and consciously self aware to that extent, the likely chance for a channeling might be reduced, you know, it might be difficult. So they instruct us usually depend because every teaching is different, but some of the instructions that I received in the past is even if you think about the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram, like all of these mechanisms are to raise shields, but as in more like the less like shields are more like filters so that what comes in doesn't harm the individual, what goes out benefits the individual and the people that that get in touch with the individual, people being people, beings, spirits, who knows. So l shield is probably not the correct word, but it's more like applying the then the the necessary filters for the practice. Lynn: Yeah, fil filtering it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Amelie: Snapchat. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: my god. Amelie: Snapchat filters. Luigi: We're not that I'm not that young anymore. Lynn: So much fun. gosh, I thought not, but it's some it sometimes it just gets you. gosh. Amelie: You've got to be silly. I was also thinking about the blindfold is also because it's because it's white, so it has a sense of innocence and not in a way. And it also blocks the person from seeing what's on the outside. Therefore, you are only going by what comes from within. and not from something that you learned from the outside or society, whatever you just being purely the way you are and yourself. And isn't that peace? Because that basically gives you the freedom of being whoever you want to be or whoever you are, actually, whoever you are. Instead of going by what society says or what the norm says, you are just... you know, untainted Lynn: Yes. Amelie: from society. Lynn: And I can totally see that for some Luigi: Living your authentic self. Lynn: yeah, that for some Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: people, this idea of peace s would seem more like a horror scenario when they have to shut off and actually be in stillness and with themselves, right? But if your mind is functioning the way it should, then mm you have a better chance at reaching the state that is glorified in this card, I guess. Without the nightmares. The nightmares we get later in the sorts. This is the the pure unblemished version before all the human stuff comes in and muddies up what the element of air should be about. Amelie: Sometimes I wonder if she's on an island. Lynn: Yeah, she's definitely at the beach. And I I was just like thinking like as a joke, because I mean there's discussions that she might be Justit here, right? the justice. And I was like, you know, is that what the justice does, like on her days off, you know, like she's just on her days on with like at work, she's just like, you know, like with the crowd and scepter and sword and, you know, scales and she's all like serious business and you know, and that's what she's doing in her free time to like recharge and to listen to the inner worlds and wisdoms and to balance out what is actually what is actually right so that she can again go back to work and judge better. You know? Amelie: Trying to forget what people do. All the things humanity does. Lynn: yeah I'm not sure. Shall we talk a bit about the thoth card as well? Since Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: we're yes. So that's our thoth representation and also here we are having two swords or rapiers. Two pointy things crossing a a flower, piercing a flower in the middle. Well, you also have a representation of the silver blue like the lunar colours and the white. but then we also have the yellowish green Venus, maybe. Although it's not officially Venus, but you know. Amelie: I I assume that Venus would be the flower in the middle which should be the lotus flower. Am I, Lynn: Yeah, it should be. Amelie: I'm not sure if I'm 100 % correct. It was a long time ago, I read the books. Lynn: I mean Libra is a V is a is a a is Venus ruled. So yeah. Yeah. So it makes sense. Luigi: It's a Venus ruled sign. So that would be yeah, that would be the connection to the green. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: I'm trying to look at the colors. Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: So for Libra. so the colors for Libra, the Acyluthian color will be emerald, or you can I mean for colorblind people like me, emerald looks just like green. That could be the green is in the top card. But in the Briatic color scale, it's blue. so that also would explain the blue of the Smith deck as well as the tough deck. For the Yetsirati color scale, we have deep blue-green, which to my blind eye colorblind eyes looks like gray. But again, it's called deep blue-green. And then you have pale green for the Asiatic color scale. and then let's see. the colours for Hokma it's it goes from pure soft blue to grey to blue pearl grey or otherwise known as mother pearl. And again it's something that looks amazing, white flakord with red, blue and yellow. Amelie: When I was doing this deck because I had to zoom in on the pictures sometimes and actually the two of swords was... it had some things that I at the bottom that I had to edit. So I zoomed in on the bottom colors very very closely and they actually have that kind of emerald bluish green color. It's difficult to see because it's so small but as we know that the actual artwork was... quite big when she did it. So I have Luigi: Quite chunky. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: a feeling that this would yeah, I have a feeling that this would be way more prominent. The actual color scale going from the emerald green to the to the yellow there. In Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: the actual artwork, it's probably more prominent than the small cards. But yeah. Luigi: I mean yellow as well can can be very much of a color of air, and we are instilling the air suit. Lynn: Yes. For sure. Amelie: Mm-hmm. Luigi: and I and I wonder like 'cause you know how we mention now and this is probably things that we are fishing out that not necessarily noted and in any particular source, but I wonder how like in the Smith but even in the tough you can argue that the position of the swords because it's not like So if you can look at my the camera, I'm not exactly like that. Like the swords are very much united, forming a very visual V in the Smith And in the Thoth Amelie: Victory. Luigi: you can do like a maybe a double V because they're crossing each other. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: and that brings up again the valve of the Hierophant, the the t not the twin. When I say twin I mean the additional Venusian rule sign. as well as the path underneath connecting to love to the sphere of love to the sphere of Chesed and so I wonder yeah if there is a bit of a secret Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: hint Lynn: I was wondering. Amelie: It would not surprise me. Lynn: I mean for for the thoth version as well, I mean although it is called peaceful, I mean piercing something might not it doesn't intuitively strike me as necessarily peaceful because I mean they do kind of they would destroy the flower if they move, right? And the other thing is like I don't know whether you've looked at the handles very closely. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: And my camera doesn't like if I go too close so I can't really zoom completely in. But the yeah, you can do that. 'Cause the handles they are look like angry men that are like fighting in a so it's kind of like Amelie: They remind me of Alice in Wonderland and the cards, the men that water the... Lynn: yeah. The yes, the card yeah, the the garden of the queen. The little Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: cardman. Sure, why not? Luigi: The as well if you look at the I don't know how to describe them, but so how am I gonna do this? So if you look at the handles okay, but look at the shapes at the edge of the right and left side, you know, they are Lynn: Mm. Luigi: going like one is going downwards, one is going upwards. They have a bit of a Carubian shape. Like if you in in your card Amelie looks very clear, like Especially the sword on the right, with the left hand side symbol going up. Like it's a very Carubian figure with wings behind their back in meditation, in pr in in protection, in veneration, and similar to the opposite side. But one of them is pointing up and one of them is pointing down. So there are Lynn: I'm broken, I just see demons. Like ogres Luigi: Ha ha ha. Lynn: or like some some verdict kind of Raksha. Luigi: I mean when I look at the when I look at the central I don't when I look at the center of the handle, I do resonate with what you're seeing because I see like the faces of two very angry demons and what can look like their hands you know, like their hands doing like that. But if you Lynn: Yeah, Rain Yeah. yes now I see it. They look like praying Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: like praying angels. Luigi: Yeah, yeah. Lynn: Yeah, now I see it. Thank you very much. I can see angels after all I've been enlightened. Amelie: I also- Luigi: But again, there's a duplic there's a duality to it because I again, Lynn: I mean yes. Luigi: if I entertain the thought, they either look like angry ogres or guardians that are going with the this position here, hermetically Lynn: Mm. Luigi: speaking, it's the what's he called the grief of Isis, you know, after the departure of Osir no the departure, the loss of Osiris. But if I forget about the central face and I focus on just th the four handle pieces I see the four Carubian s symbols. Lynn: I mean it's a the card is a max duality card, right? I mean Libra is about two sides and trying to balance it, right? And now we're having the the maximum or the first the the the beginning of Libra where you're like even more like into this my you know how to balance things trying to figure out you know a weight counterweight and but also just the idea of peace, right? There there is not there is no peace if there's not the opposite. Like there would not be a word for peace if you didn't have like struggle or war, you know. So that being somehow embodied in what my eyes see as angry like men or Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: demons or ogres, it makes sense. Like just this idea of like, well, you know, the peace probably won't last forever and there's only peace because at before it or after it there will come a struggle or a war. Amelie: I also know that I read it a while ago, when they made this card, they were actually thinking about the World War II because they wanted peace. So this is why you have the white little... They're not swastikas, but they're kind of shaped a little bit like them, but they're Lynn: Hmm. Amelie: turning. So they're supposed Lynn: Mm. Amelie: to be turning. So I also do wonder if the little angry men have also something to do because it's almost like two... two politicians getting angry. No, Lynn: Mm. Amelie: but it's almost like, you know what, why just make peace? Because you've got Libra in between there on top of the little dagger. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: But I do remember it had something to do with the wall, so they kind of made this card as a kind of schedule for peace, top of a thing. And that makes sense. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Hmm. That's lovely. Luigi: What came to mind as well, and I don't really like bringing up my Christian upbringing or background, but in one of the prayers there is this famous sentence in cello così in terra like as in the in the heavens so on earth or something like that, something to that extent. and again that reminds me of the body language or at least the direction that the angelic figures are pointing towards in the heavens. Or towards the heavens and towards the earth. Lynn: I as above so below, right? Luigi: Exactly. Lynn: It works like that Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: too. Hmm mm. And what a precarious balance it is, right? I mean both the the Libra sign as well as the moon, the lunar sign are just like balanced in the middle of like these very, very pointed daggers. And it just needs like a little fly to sit on top to topple the Luigi: Mm-hmm. It gives a bit of a Lynn: Basically. Yeah. Luigi: illusion though, like isn't it? Because it almost looks like as if there are four swords in the card and Lynn: Mm. Luigi: not two. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. I mean, it doesn't just look like it. There are if you there are four swords. It's it's an illusion. Yes, Luigi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wonder if there is I just wonder if there is Amelie: Let's just say six swords then. Unless those two are daggers. They're daggers, not swords. Lynn: true. That's just two swords but two daggers. Four point four Luigi: Yeah, and two Athens. Amelie: Yeah, exactly. Lynn: four pointy objects that might kill you in your sleep. Yeah. Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: Mm. Yeah, and I guess it depends on what you do with the tradition, but in the I think in in the Wicca tradition the ath the atame if I'm pronouncing it correctly, it's the element of fire, which could be applicable because we are in Hokma, but in some versions of the tradition the atame becomes the element of air. So the two daggers or the two atame is could be relevant or at least related to that principle. Lynn: Mm. Yeah, should we look at the hermetic and the golden dawn a little bit? Amelie: I thought we Luigi: Mm. Amelie: could jump over to the Golden Dawn straight away because it's very similar to the Thoth Deck. I don't know if maybe I should just put it... Lynn: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We have blue hands Luigi: Again, Lynn: today. Luigi: lots of yellow. Lynn: Lots of yellow, yeah. But the it's very striking that the that the petal in the middle, instead of being blue, is red. It's a very striking Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: colour. And I feel I f like I think I read that in the thought in the thoth deck that the the flower in the middle was supposed to represent something unattainable. Like I'll just put that there. I've read that it's supposed to be something unattainable. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: but here it's yeah, very contrasting. It pulls the mind immediately and yeah, my mind is going into like Venusian Venusian topics by seeing a red Amelie: Yes. Lynn: flowering blossom. Amelie: That's correct. That's exactly what they want you to. Lynn: Very very feminine. Yes, that's what we're supposed to the flowering feminine in the middle. Amelie: Yeah, that's exactly what it's supposed to indicate. The five petals Lynn: Ooh. Amelie: indicates peace through the powers of Venus. Lynn: Mm power of love force from above. Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: Celindion. Lynn: Well, I was thinking Frankie goes to Hollywood, but you know, same same. Mm. Luigi: That that too, that too. Amelie: It says also that the white rays of the light form an equal-armed cross behind the rose, implying that the love of Venus has tempered the swords of wrath, resulting in peace Luigi: Hum Lynn: Mm. Amelie: and balance. Luigi: sou poética. Amelie: Yeah, I like that. And those hands this time are male hands. Lynn: Right. Maybe because blue. Well they look quite they look quite strong as well, right? They're not like da dainty little hands like in the other in the Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: the ten of discs we just had. This is more like gripping the swords. Clank clank. I find like just one thing that I I I've kind of feel like when when looking at these more like the Thoth images and also the Golden Dawn Well, anything but the Smith basically that we're looking at here. it's this idea like of crossing of swords that i in some part of my mind it seems a little a little bit paradox that that is a P a sign of peace. Because if you were to imagine them being in motion, then a crossing of swords of as also happens when you battle, when you fight, right? So if you were to look Amelie: Mmm. Lynn: at them in motion then then I would be like, you know, but are they fighting? You know? if you didn't know anything, if you didn't couldn't if you didn't know anything and maybe the colour scale wasn't as peaceful as is, and you didn't read peace, then it's like, you cross swords, it's like two people fighting or being at a at a s stalemate in in a fight. And then it's a bit far fetched to call that peace because then you're just like, you know, dueling and it's like I'm stronger, I'm stronger. It could evoke that kind of image too, but it's not typically what the card depicts, however, it is the shadow side or the opposite of peace, right? It's a struggle for we talked about dominion. We we mentioned dominion Amelie: Mm-hmm. Lynn: and this is on the other side of of our of our wheel right we're having the two of wands and in the two of wands we having an opposite feel where it's not about it's about the self and it's just like the the me and the exploration and going on to the world and figuring out who you Luigi: Minion. Lynn: are by dominating other things, by being stronger, by asserting oneself. And here it is diff here it is relational. Here it is the the I and the you, the the one and the other. It's two. Like it's it's actually two people. Hm. Amelie: You know what I see in this Luigi: It's interesting as well. Amelie: in a weird way? Cause they're two both male hands and Venus Luigi: Mm-hmm. Amelie: is a female. You know, like, no, you know, you know. Lynn: It's a threesome. We are having a Luigi: No I'm getting Lynn: th same songs. Amelie: I was thinking Luigi: Sorry, go on, Amelie. Amelie: more about the two men fighting over her or something and she just comes in between and goes like, stop fighting. And they just like come to and they're just like, Lynn: recensoring this, but she comes in between, yeah. Luigi: Very mystical. Very mystical. We were just Amelie: whoa, what are we doing? Luigi: We were just in the gutter. We were just in the gutter. But you did say like but you did say like Amelie: Yes, you were. But that could also Lynn: It's Venusian. Amelie: be. Luigi: But you did mention that I think the book referred to it as like you know the red rose with the f equilibriated cross the the forearms cross like saying as be Venus restoring peace into the world. So that matches perfectly the image that came to your mind, you know, whatever whoever or whichever individual brought forward wrath and destruction and conquest and then Venus or the goddess and she rises from whatever, from the ocean, from the earth, from the ashes, from the skies, who knows, from everywhere. She's everywhere. And then yeah, she restores the peace, like you said. Lynn: bring it back into the gutter if you're going into Greek myths, she arises out from the balls of Kronos that here when he was castrated and thrown in the sea, right? And Aphrodite arises out of Luigi: Uranus, yeah. Amelie: Well there you go. Lynn: yes. Amelie: There she- she's arisen. Luigi: And then inviting Lynn: Yes, she's arisen. Luigi: Iphaestus and Air Eris to a beautiful free summer. Lynn: Yes. I mean t yes, exactly. Exactly. Right? Amelie: and peace is restored. Lynn: I and peace. Yes, peace. Just just make love and be happy, right? Make pe make make love, not war. Luigi: Like that as well that with the big especially in that deck, Amelie in the Golden Dawn, with that huge volume of yellow and blue, obviously when you mix them we get the color green, the color of Venus. Amelie: Mm. Luigi: So yeah, there's so many things coming together, like but they need to to in order to happen they need to come together. Like the colors, the swords, the principle of peace, everything. It's almost like this card is suggesting W w we what or where or who do you need to unite Mic drop. Amelie: You Lynn: We can end it here. Boop end of episode. Well, we have Amelie: Well, we do have the Hermetic one as well. Lynn: let's let's take a quick look at that magic. is that yeah. Amelie: Let's take a quick, there's no colors in there, so that makes it easier. Or does it? Lynn: Yes. It is black Luigi: Ha ha ha. Lynn: and white. I mean Amelie: It is black and white. Lynn: the the Libra and Luna symbol are strong in this one. right there Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: on top, just like right in your face or well, it's pulled between that and the lotus flower. Luigi: And even at the bottom. Amelie: There's one at the bottom as well, yes I mean both, yeah Lynn: Yes. There's also lunar. An opposite. In in in perfect symmetry, right? For the two Amelie: Mm. Lynn: lunar symbols. Hmm. Amelie: So know what, when I look at this card, I keep seeing the sigil of Lucifer. Lynn: where? Amelie: A little bit. Don't you think? Luigi: I'm trying to imagine it through the card. I'm just I think I'm still in the free zone with Venus and Ephestus in Aries. Lynn: You are allowed to Amelie: at least for reference there. Luigi: yeah. A little a little bit. Lynn: I mean that cannot be a coincidence. That is absolutely I mean come on. I see it I totally see it when you poke it. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, and isn't Yeah, yeah, Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: absolutely. And isn't there like you know like Lucifer being the light bringer and the Lynn: Yeah, I was just thinking that, right? Amelie: Mm-hmm. Luigi: and Lucifer morning star and the morning star in the sky that we are accustomed to exactly. Yeah. Lynn: Being Venus Yes, yes, yeah. That is nice. It's a nice touch. Yeah, the morning star, Venus, Lucifer, Venus. We should Luigi: Hm. Lynn: just call Venus Lucifer or Lucy or something. I I mean not Lucy maybe but Lucy Amelie: Lucy? Luigi: Hello, hello Lucy. Amelie: Lucy, yes! Luigi: Yeah, I also see Lynn: Yeah. Luigi: an hourglass there's so much going on, even though it's black and white, which I struggle with, although I shouldn't 'cause I I'm I'm technically colour blind, but but there's so much Amelie: No. Lynn: Every every episode Luigi: going on, isn't it? Lynn: we we hear how colorblind Luigi is. Amelie: you Luigi: Is this because of the amount of times that I am presented with colours and they're like this is so so and so and I'm like No it's not this I I it's not b that I'm r disagreeing with them but in my head I'm like but I'm Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: seeing blue, I'm seeing black, I'm see you know? Somebody will say, This is black and I'm like but isn't it blue? No not what I'm wearing by the way. I'm just like in in a metaphorical conversation. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luigi: But yeah, I see like the rose, the star, the sun The moon. There's lots of beautiful symbolism in this one. Lynn: And we have lots of we have lots of moons as well. I mean we have moon on top and bottom and then we have the moons Luigi: Mm. Lynn: on the sword like that and then the opposite as well. So I'm seeing like six moon symbols in this card. Six lunar symbols. One, two, three, four, five, six. Amelie: I'm more like a bow tie. Luigi: Six times three would be nine. isn't it? No. Yeah, no. Yeah, eighteen which reduced would be eighteen which Lynn: What are three times six? Eighteen. Yeah. Nine. Yeah. Luigi: would be nine reduced. Lynn: Does it make sense? I then it's Yesod, right? And then we're in the Luna. Yesod. Huh? Luigi: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lynn: Ha ha. Numbers everywhere. And we can make them make sense if you just think hard Amelie: You Luigi: Yeah, well I I extracted Lynn: enough. Luigi: I extracted Amelie: Mm-hmm. Luigi: the three from the value of the letter gimmel, which would be the letter attributed to the moon, to Luna, to the Aradia, to the pristess. So but there's so many other ways that we can go about it. Lynn: Wow. No but it's really I think it's really interesting, like so many hidden things that you just you know and then you just need a particular mind to crack it. I love that. Hmm. Luigi: Mm-hmm. Amelie: We also have the angels there. Luigi: Is he just the ones at the bottom in the corner? Lynn: and it is Lord of Peace Res yeah. Luigi: Or is it the one Amelie Lynn: But I'm all Luigi: do you know if it's the one underneath the sign of Libra, the n the name of the title of an angel as well? Amelie: I think so, there's two angels. Lynn: The left and right. But does it say what the other one? LU CI FER Luigi: then that one might be saying something different. Amelie: must be. Lynn: I mean I don't. Luigi: Brrrr Brrrr. Lynn: I found it interesting that it's I mean here we have the Lord of Peace Restored, right? And that would Luigi: Mm. Lynn: hint at that there was war, right? There was fighting Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: and now it is peace. Hmm. Luigi: Yeah. It could be like let's think. Lynn: Let us think. Luigi: 'Cause I wonder is it peace restore from its opposing neighbor not neighbor, sorry, that would be wrong, but its opposing force, so the two of ones. So maybe peace restore Lynn: Mm. Luigi: from the sense of dominion of the shadow aspect of the particular angle in the sky that we're talking about. So Aries versus versus Libra. Amelie: The two angels are, here comes me butchering again, Yezalel and Mebahel. Luigi: Awesome. And that makes sense. But then I wonder what's written underneath the Libra symbol. It's four letters. I I f I have a feeling the the second letter might be a noon, maybe. Amelie: The cat has awakened. Luigi: she arises Venus is a rice. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: She arises. But it doesn't say in the tiny tiny booklet. It doesn't say anything. Yeah, Amelie: She's frozen. you checked it already, Lynn: the the the little one. It doesn't say anything about the one. It's just for the initiate to to know. Amelie: Yeah, that's okay. Luigi: That's all right. Lynn: But we're too curious Amelie: Hey kitty cat, you know what this is? Lynn: to think that it's okay. So we will research after and then we will figure it out. Amelie: today's cat episode. I don't own a cat by the way. She Lynn: No, the cat's own. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: just likes to be here with me. She just meows outside my Lynn: The cat owns you. Amelie: door and I just let her in. I'm a catnapper. Lynn: Yes, you Luigi: Mm-hmm. Lynn: are. Well, do we have anything more to add to our Two of Swords episode? Luigi: May may she reach you no w no matter where you are, no matter who you are, no matter when you are. Amelie: I do like this card, I do. Lynn: Hmm it is it is very nice. Or yeah Luigi: Comforting. Lynn: it's be something Okay well thanks for checking in with us and checking out the Two of Swords like subscribe comment below if you have any thoughts about the two swords how you feel about it do you like it? Why not? Let us know. Luigi: Ha ha ha. Lynn: And Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: and see you next time guys. Good night. Amelie: Bye! Have a peaceful Luigi: Bye. Amelie: night.