Latest / Beautifully Complex / 291: Teaching Your Kid to Harness Their Brain, with Anna Housley Juster, Ph.D., LICSW

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291: Teaching Your Kid to Harness Their Brain, with Anna Housley Juster, Ph.D., LICSW · Beautifully Complex

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: This is what happens with the amigdolo is that it
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: doesn't do a great job of determining a true threat,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: actual danger from perceived threat or perceived danger, and so
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety starts with this threat response in
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the brain.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hey, everyone,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am really excited about
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: my guest today and our topic. We are going to
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: talk about teaching your kids about their brain and how
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: that can really help them navigate their emotions, navigate other
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: parts of life, frustration and things like that that I
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: think come up a lot for our complex kids. And
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about the book as well, How
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: to Train your Amigdala, which I'm very excited about.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: You.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: So, I have doctor Anna Housley just here with me,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: and will you just start by introducing yourself, let everybody
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: know who you are and what you do.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Or thank you so much for inviting me. I am
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a child adolescent mental health clinician in private practice, but
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: for years I was in a community mental health center.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of work with schools and meeting
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: kids where they are where they can get access to
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: mental health, cancling in the school context, and prior to that,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I had years in education and specifically in formal education.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: When I worked at Sesame Street, I was in children's
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: media for a while, but I began my career as
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a head star teacher, and the through line has always
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: been a commitment to helping children and families in whatever context.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I was in love that it's so amazing to get
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: to be a helper, aspecially with kids. Yeah, where do
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: you want to start with this conversation? I think maybe
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: just defining what the amygdala is first, right, So if
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about how we're training our amgdala,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: but also why is it so important that we focus
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: on this and that we teach our kids how their
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: brain works and how to navigate that.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's so important because we tend to
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: teach our kids a lot about the body, you know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: like kids that are as young as three or four
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: years old tend to know what their heart is and
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: kind of what its major job is. They know that
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: their stomach digests food. They know they need to move
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to exercise their muscles, And for some reason, I think
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: it's because we just didn't have as much science about
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: the brain until much later in the development of understanding
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: like human anatomy and science and the function of the brain.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: We tend to stop teaching kids the details that like
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the collar bones up, and yet what we know is
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that there's like this. I mean, you can't disconnect the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: body from the brain. It's all interconnected. And what I
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: started to find in my practice is that there's so
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: much curiosity in that early childhood years, but there wasn't
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a tool. I couldn't find a book or something that
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: would both be accurate from a neuroscience standpoint, but also
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: be fun and playful. So the genesis of this book
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: was like a story that I was already telling with
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the kids I work with and just then had the
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: opportunity to turn it into a picture book. There's not
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: many things I think that you should teach as early
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: as possible. If anything, I think we need to give
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: kids time. But with the strategies and the understanding of
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: how to calm the threat response in your own brain.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think we start too early. I think we
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: could start as early as possible, the same way we
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: teach language, just naturally, as early as possible for example.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I think when we understand our bodies, we
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: have more autonomy, We feel more like we have some
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: control over things. Yeah, do you want to share what
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: the amygdala is for those I was sure who don't
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: know they're listening.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you know, to be honest, that was
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: in my third graduate degree program. Before I knew I
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: had been a teacher, I was a parent. I had
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: a PhD in early child that education, and it wasn't
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: until I switched into mental health and was taking classes
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in psycho education cognitive behavioral therapy that I knew that.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And so basically it's getting more attention now. I think
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: if you just google amygdala, there's a lot about the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: amygdala hijack and kind of how to calm the brain.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: So the amygdala is this small but mighty piece of
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the brain. It's actually two components that are both small
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and almond shape, but we tend to talk about it
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: as one piece. The amygdala, and it's it's the usual
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: suspect of the threat response. It doesn't act totally alone,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: but it acts very quickly. And so the minute someone
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: cuts you off in traffic or like looks at you
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: a certain way, especially if you are an anxious person,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: or if you have a history of socialized lation or
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: oppression or anxiety or any of the things we talk
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: about when we talk about complex humans. Yeah, instantly sends
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: a message to the rest of the body and the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: rest of the brain saying this is danger and the
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: only three options four. But really we talk about flight
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: flight free. So the brain is getting ready to protect
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: the body in the brain, and we need the amigdala
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: because it keeps us from stepping into traffic doing anything
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that's dangerous. We need it for survival, and it's we're
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: wired for survival at birth. The problem, which the character
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: in the Amygdala discovers early in the book is that
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it looks like this in the brain, looks like this
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: in the book, But a few pages later it makes
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: a mistake, and it mistakes a sound and shadow at
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the door for a dangerous monster, and it turns out
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: to be a kitten delivering a large cheese pizza, which
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: was the least threatening thing. I think they goes to
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: put right to the book. But this is what happens
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: with the amygdala is that it doesn't do a great
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: job of determining a true threat, actual danger from perceived
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: threat or perceived danger. And so a lot of anxiety
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: starts with this threat response in the brain. And yeah,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: so that's the Amignola. It's a great character because it's deep,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: it's complicated, it has all these strength and a lot
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of confidence, and it's over zealous. And then it's also
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: hyper sensitive and can make a mistake. And then especially
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: for kids that are still really learning and their prefrontal
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: cortex is still very much in development, it can be
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: really hard not to be in threat response almost all
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, and chronic stress is really hard for
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: the brain and the body.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I love that you use the word over zealous as
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: a person with anxiety, Like, yes, I talk about it
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: a lot as just being hyper sensitive. Right, it just
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: sees threat everywhere, but also it is over zealous, like
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: it will make a mountain out of a molehill. Right.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Our body just instinctually does this. And you know, I
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: talk a lot about the brain and the body connection,
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and how when our survival brain, our emotional brain is
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: really triggered, then our cognitive thinking brain isn't so accessible
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: to us. And I think for kids it helps to
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: explain sometimes behavior that they wish they could control maybe
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: but they're not because it is instinctual. Yes, does that
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: make sense?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent? I think it's so important for any
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: human any a child or adult that has a lot
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: of anxiety, or maybe especially if they get irritable with
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: anxiety and they go into that fight response and then
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: friends are mad at them, while the teachers mad at
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: them and they're in trouble. It's so good to normalize that. Yeah,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: it's not that there's something wrong with you. You're not
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: a bad person. There's no bad part of you. You're
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: good enough exactly the way you are. But understanding the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: facts gives agency, and once you have agency, you don't
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, as you know and as I know, awesome
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: also has anxiety. Being out of control is a big push.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: It pushes you towards anxious thoughts, and that manifests is
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the feelings of the physiological feelings of anxiety in the body,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: like rapid heart rate, being hot or suddenly cold or
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: frozen butterflies in the stomach. So if you can think
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: to yourself, oh, the reason I have butterflies in my
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: stomach is that my amygdala thought that there is something
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: threatening about raising my hand in this circle in my
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: preschool class And the reason I have butterflies in my
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: stomach is my Amigdalah sent messages to to push all
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the blood out of my stomach and into my large
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: muscles because it actually thinks I'm getting ready to fight
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: against something or run. But I'm not going to do
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: either of those things because I know that that's what's happening.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: And so I'm going to stay here in this safe space,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and I'm going which is my preschool classroom, and I'm
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: going to do one of the strategies that I know
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: to do. Calm that little friend in my head, that's
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: my my glove that's telling me that I'm in danger,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and then the blood will come back to my stomach
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and the nauseous feeling will go away, and I'm in
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: control of it because I have the knowledge to know
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: what's happening in the power to do something about it.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about how do we teach our kids
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: this information. Obviously your book is a great start with
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: the HUT. What else do we need to be having
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: conversations with them about, and what do those conversations look like?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Can we start with what I don't recommend, just really quickly.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I do like to be very strength based, so I think,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, every parent has strengths, every teacher has strengths,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: and we're all already good enough doing what we're doing.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: This is all just like trying to have extra tools
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: in the toolbox. Yeah, yeah, but what I did myself
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: as a younger, when I had younger My kids are
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: now an age that doesn't make sense to me. They're
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: eighteen and fifteen year old. I have two daughters, but
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I still work with kids like three to twelve. Say anyway,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So I used to do things like just tell me
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: what is going on, like say it. Use your words.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: And as a teacher in my pre service teaching experience,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: we were always taught use your words because that way
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: you're not using your hands. You know, you're not physically
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: fighting if you're using your words, and that's good. Except
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: to get to words, you have to calm the amygdala
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: because if you're in threat response mode. As we know,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the first thing that happens is it shuts down access
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: to language. So I help teachers and parents understand. You know,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: if you were being chased by a lion, you would
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: not stop to tell someone how you feel about it
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: or why. You would just run or you would just
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: fight back. So what I don't recommend doing is like
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a moth to the flame, just tell me everything that's happening.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I need to be right in here with you and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: tell me. Talk to me, talk and talk to me,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: talk to me. What I do suggest is giving a
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: little bit of space, but being present the way you'd
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: want to be if your child was actually, like really
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: actually scared of ut Actually they are scared, but if
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: they were scared of an actual threat, you would want
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: to stay present and be right with them. But you
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: don't want to align with the fear in this case
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: because it might not be an actual, real fear, like
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: a spider in the kitchen. For a child that says
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: a phobia of spiders is they're going to see it
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: like a lion, But you don't as a parent, And
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: so the trick is to use strategies like coregulation, breathing,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: but breathing from a distance, not asking the child to
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: say or do anything, and not rejecting the feeling. The
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: other thing there's a tendency to do is to be like,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: what is the big deal, You're just going to school.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to drop you off like I do every
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: other day, and you're going to go into school, and
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. But then the child's brain
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: thinks you don't even see the lion. That's even scarier
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: because you don't see the threat that I see. And
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you are my primary person that I am attached to
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: in the world, So if the adult doesn't see it,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: then I'm really in danger. So I recommend trying to
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: stay balanced in the recognition of the feeling and the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: confident in the child that they can cope, and also
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: offering strategies some of what you're modeled in the book.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate you calling attention to the fact
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: that sometimes other people see things in a way that's
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: different than we do, and so our kid might see
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: that spider as an actual a lion coming after them.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: That is so so important to meet kids where they
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: are and show up in the ways that they need
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: us to do. Right to be able to acknowledge a
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: validate their experience.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And it's hard because if you need to get somewhere
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: where you're going and you have to get to work,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: or you know, you have people coming over and your
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: child is in a panic about something that you don't see,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: it's really hard. But I am trained in the Space intervention,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: which is from the Yale Child Study Center with Elie Leibowitz,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: and it's a fantastic model for helping parents see that balance.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: And I do a lot of this work with the
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: kids I work with is and the parents that I
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: do coaching with. If you argue with anxiety, you're making
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: anxiety bigger and giving it a lot of attention and oxygen.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And because anxiety is happiest when it's getting a lot
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: of attention and focused. And even though I don't believe
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: there's any bad part in a child, I also don't
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: think that you need to give more oxygen to the anxiety.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: So if you start screaming like what.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Is the problem, that's just a spider, just move on.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: I have people coming over, and this is really making
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: me stressed out, because then what's happening in you as
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: a parent is your own threat response is triggered, and
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: now you're Amigdala is feeling threatened by your child. And
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: at some point, what's really sad in all conflict is
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: that each of us are seeing the other one is
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: the lion, and so now the parents see the child
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: is the lion and threatening, because it's threatening to feel
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: out of control and not know what's happening next because
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: you had this other thing in your head and now
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: the child is doing something else and that's very threatening.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Threat response comes up, and if you're both going to
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: fight mode, both of you are fighting, and nobody's listening
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: anymore or accessing the reasoning that the prefrontal cortex thinking
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: about logic and using vocabulary with the way we want
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: to Yeah, that's how we say things we don't want
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: to say because we went into threat response mode.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: And it's easy to get triggered in that way. You know,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: it's important, I think when we have these conversations to
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: let parents know, like, if that is making you upset,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: that's natural. Yes, it is natural for you to get
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: riled up and to feel out of sorts and all
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: these things. But as the adult in the room, we've
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: had more practice and we need to be sort of
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: that calm anchor that study presence so that they can regulate.
• 14:52
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  Speaker 2: their loved ones. You know one thing that I told
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: myself a lot as a parent. My kids are young
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: adults now, but you know what you focus on grows yeah.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Period, that's a great way to think about it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if your kid's super anxious and you're focused on it,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you're calling it out, you're calling attention to it, it's
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: making that anxiety grow. And so yeah, and I think too,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: like when we have this conversation about regulation in this context,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: we can either coregulate, which is offering that comp study presence, right,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: or we can co escalate, which is kind of what
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: you just described. And you know, we're always going to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: have better outcomes if we come in and or that
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: presence kids can attune to and coregulate with, right.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I really like that. I'm going to use that. I
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: really like the co escalate as the sort of other
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: side of the spectrum away from coregulation. And yeah, yeah,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: what you just said is so important because just like
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I said that, it's good for children to have empowerment
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and agency because they know what's happening in their body.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: When you can pause and tune into what's happening in
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: your body and then understand the connection back to the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: amygdala in the brain, parents can do that too, and
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: it gives you an understanding that there's nothing wrong with
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you either. And so if there's empathy, empathy for the self,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: you know, compassion for the self and gratitude for the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: system that keeps us safe and alert to danger in
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the world. And also to recognize when it's getting in
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: our way, but not because it's a bad part of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: it's just because it's actually a good part that's over zealous.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: And I really wanted in the story. In the story
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: which I hope that comes across, is that this is
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: about teamwork. Like it's about aligning the child with their
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: amygdala in the threat response, not pushing away a worry
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: monster or trying to like get rid of part of you,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: because I think that just reinforces a little bit of
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: fear or this idea that there's something bad in me
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: that I have to get rid of. I think that's
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: kind of scary or it can be, especially in the
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: anxious brain. So my hope is that this is about
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: alignance and empathy and teamwork, both teamwork between an adult
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: and a child, and then also the teamwork of uniting
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: brain and body in a present moment, which is basically mindfulness.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my fullness practice can be so super helpful for
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: every human being, right, but especially when you have anxiety
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: or other things that do you tend to get sort
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: of triggered in your body, and then it's up to
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: you to interpret it and sort of control it, right,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And if you're not able to control your thoughts, then
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: that anxiety is just going to build and build. And
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: it's something I learned over the years. You know that
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: I got better with many, many years of practice, but
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: just being able to say, Okay, I get it, my
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: body feels anxious. Is there something to be anxious about?
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And also, you know, I know that if I lean
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: into this, it's going to feel worse. But if I
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: can take a breath and figure out what's happening, it
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: won't escalate like that. That's something I've been able to
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: do for myself, but it's really it takes a long time.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: It takes a lot of work and understanding that connection, which,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: like you, I didn't know about this stuff until you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: my kids were probably almost teenagers at least before I
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: had heard of the amygdala. Like, everybody needs to know
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: about how their body and brain works because it really
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: is so powerful and empowering. Right if we feel like
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: we have more control over it. I was going to
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: share one quick example with my own kid when I
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: learned about this stuff, I was able to be able
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to tell him, like, when we get upset like this,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: when our body is sort of out of control, role
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: we can't access our thinking brain, like we can't solve
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: this problem. And I really want to help you solve
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: this problem, but we can't do it like this, So
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: we need to do some of these strategies, or we
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: need to take a break, or whatever it might have
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: been at that moment, But it was such a relief
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: for him because he did feel like he was different.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: He was broken at times because he didn't want to
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: act that way. He was always a kid who was
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: very very apologetic and remorseful, which said, hey, he really
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: was not going to control that. That was not him.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: But that felt really empowering to him to be able
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: to understand, this is the reason why I can't do
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: anything about this right now, and this is what I
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: can do to help myself. And I think the book
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: and the story that you've crafted there is going to
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: help kids do that. What other strategies, what other things
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to parents need to know to be able to help
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: their kids learn to train their amygdalas.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: So the way the book set up is that once
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the amgdala realize it's been over zealous and it mistakes
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the kitten delivering a large cheese pizza for a dangerous
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: monster at the door. You can see in the background
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: art which was done by Cynthia Cliff. She did this
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: fantastic job of capturing emotion in the book and like
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: really creating this lovable kind of furrey. A Migdalah character
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: is that Migdala looks direct to the reader as it
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: is in all of the pages of the book and says,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is this is the deal, like
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: sometimes I can get a little over sensitive and I
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: need your help. And it asks the reader to practice
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the strategies to train it throughout the rest of the story.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: And the three categories are control breathing. It models control
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: breathing for the reader, which is exactly what you just said,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: taking the deep breath. And it specifically models elevator breath.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I call it where you're just starting down in the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: abdomen breathing all the way up to the top of
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: the lungs and then all the way out, which is,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: as you know, very calming, because if we were being
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: chased by a lion, we would not stop to take long,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: deep breaths, and so the message back to the neuro
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: feedback is we can't possibly this can't be a real lion,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: or the body wouldn't be behaving this way. And so
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: the body sends a message back to the brain saying
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: this is not a true emergency, and that's calming for
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the amygdala, and then that's therefore calming for the body,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and it cycles that way. So control breathing, and then
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: progressive muscle relaxation, which is really just a fancy word
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: for saying like tightening your muscles and releasing them with
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: intent on purpose versus the tightening that happens automatically when
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the amigdala sends adrenaline connects with glands to send adrenaline
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: through the body. And then visual imagery, which is just
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: basically changing your thoughts to change how you feel. So
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: if you know that you're in an anxious a situation
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: that's threatening in some way to the amygdala, but you
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: choose to picture being at home in your bed, being
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: with a grandmother who you love, being with your parent,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: being on a soccer field, be on the beach. If
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you picture vividly a place that's different from the place
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you are. You're using your thoughts to change the rest
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: of what's happening in that threat response in the brain.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So those are the three main categories that are modeled
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: by the Amignala in the story, and in my experience,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: kids will do it because now they care about the
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Abigdala character and they know that they're somehow involved as
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: a team. They'll practice the strategies in the context of
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the story. And that's ideal because you don't want to
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: practice it for the first time when a child is
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: already in threat response mode. Definitely, like you said earlier,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: it's lifelong practice that I'm still practicing even though I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: talk about this all day long. So you want it
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: to be like when you brush your teeth. Basically, it's
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: like you might read the book as the start and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: read it multiple times to keep practicing when the child's calm.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: But then you also might just suggest, like, Hey, I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: just had this. Really, I was stuck in traffic on
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: my way home from work. I feel like I really
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: need a deep breath. Can you do it with me?
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Building it into the everyday moments, YEP, can really help, Yeah,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and go a long way in helping Once the brain
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: does go into threat response mode, then it's easier to
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: calm it down if you already have the skills.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I always find trying to get kids to
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: do new things and try something we want them to
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: try is always best when things are good. Yes, never
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: when things are hard. Always when things are good. They're
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: much more receptive at that point, and I think they're
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: able to also focus on how that changes how they
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: feel when they're not feeling threatened or overwhelmed or anything
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: like that. And I just learned something new from you,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: which was that when we take a breath, our threat
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: respond to saying Okay, well it can't be a real
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: threat because we've actually been able to take a breath.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: You never made that connection myself, which is amazing. Yeah.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: The body and the brain are so amazing, like the
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: things that happen, the way it protects us when it
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: really needs to, and survival mode keeping us focused and
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: keeping kind of those emotions at bay.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: It was just telling you before we started, I live
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: in Asheville and we had the hurricane and my town
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: was damaged, and listeners already know that, but I've been
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: really reflecting on how like those first several days when
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, where are we going to get food?
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Where are we going to get water? How are we
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: going to communicate with people? There's no emotion. It was
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: just like there's no freaking out. There was no crying
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: or any of that. And I'll tell you when that
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: adrenaline wore off, like all of it flooded in, right. Yeah,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: But thinking about even other situations like that that I've
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: been in, because I've been able to really reflect on
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: this more because I think it was bigger, right, it
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: was a bigger experience. It's really shown me how much
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: our amygdala and our survival brain, like that process really
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: keeps us focused on survival. Yes, and the other stuff
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: can come late. But that idea of being in a team,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I think that concept is so approachable and really does
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: give that sense of control that is so powerful for kids,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: for any of us, Like I'm super you know, excited
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: about this concept even more than I was before we
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: started talking, because just like the understanding again, it's so
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: empowering for everybody, for the adults listening, the parents, the teachers.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: You know, understanding this about yourself helps you to show
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: up better for those kids too. I agree, thank you
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: so much for being here and sharing this and doing
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: the work that you're doing. Will you tell everybody where
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: they can find you online, where they can find the
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: book Train your Migdala.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, so, How to Train Your Mendala is available everywhere
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: books are sold Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but I
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: love to support independent booksellers too, so please ask at
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: your local bookstores in many places. And my website is
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Annahowsleyjuster dot com and you can connect with me there,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: email me and reach out if you would like to,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and be happy to hear from anybody.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll link all of that up in the show
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: notes Creature at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot com Slash
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: two nine to one for episode two hundred and ninety one.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And I just so appreciate you again and the work
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: that you're doing and for giving us a little bit
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: of your time and your wisdom today. It's been a pleasure.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for inviting me. It's fun to
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: be here.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I will see everybody next time. Take good care. Thanks
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If you
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't forget
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: to check out my online courses and parent coaching at
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at The Behavior Revolution
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: dot com.