Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 559: Breaking down IU basketball's hiring of Ryan Carr with Scott Agness

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POTB 559: Breaking down IU basketball's hiring of Ryan Carr with Scott Agness · Podcast on the Brink

0:17
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink,
0:21
Speaker 1: Wednesday of February twenty fifth, Indiana coming off a disappointing
0:27
Speaker 1: loss last night to Northwestern at Simon Scott Assembly Hall,
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Speaker 1: seventy two sixty eight, A game really Indiana should have won.
0:33
Speaker 1: They were up by thirteen at one point, I think
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Speaker 1: thirty eight twenty five, and Northwestern just really outplayed them
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Speaker 1: in the second half and comes into Somebody Hall gets
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Speaker 1: win that Indiana really needed to get for its into
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Speaker 1: DOUBA tournament hopes. This week's guest on Podcasts on the Brink,
0:49
Speaker 1: our good friend Scott Agnes of The field House Files,
0:52
Speaker 1: covers all things Indiana Paciers before we get the Scott.
0:55
Speaker 1: If you like the show and you're listening over on
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Speaker 1: Spotify or Apple Podcasts, leave us a fust our rating
1:00
Speaker 1: and review for watching over on YouTube. Like the video
1:03
Speaker 1: subscriber to the channel. I think we're just over two
1:07
Speaker 1: hundred subscribers now over on YouTube, so continuing to grow
1:11
Speaker 1: our presence there. Scott saw you a couple of games
1:15
Speaker 1: early in the season up at the field House. I
1:18
Speaker 1: believe it was maybe the Louisville game or the Baylor
1:20
Speaker 1: exhibition one of those kind of the time, the times
1:23
Speaker 1: kind of run together there. But always good to see
1:25
Speaker 1: you at the games, and I know you make it
1:28
Speaker 1: a point to get down to Bloomington pretty often to
1:31
Speaker 1: watch the games as a fan. So welcome back to
1:34
Speaker 1: the show.
1:35
Speaker 2: How you doing today, Hey, Alex, appreciate it. No good
1:37
Speaker 2: to be on this great show and yes, as always
1:39
Speaker 2: to see you in person. Those are that Louisville game
1:43
Speaker 2: in particular, that was one of the marquee matchups we
1:45
Speaker 2: thought for this season. But that was a disappointing game
1:48
Speaker 2: for sure.
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Speaker 1: No doubt. So I'm going to get into some IU
1:52
Speaker 1: basketball later in the show, but well, this first topic
1:55
Speaker 1: is going to be IU basketball, but it's more Pacers
1:58
Speaker 1: IU basketball centric, with the news this week that Ryan Carr,
2:02
Speaker 1: a long time front office member of the Pacers who
2:06
Speaker 1: actually was a student at IU a manager from nineteen
2:08
Speaker 1: ninety two to ninety six, spent I think a brief
2:11
Speaker 1: time as an assistant coach at the University of Texas
2:13
Speaker 1: al Paso before coming back to the Pacers, where he's
2:16
Speaker 1: worked I think twenty three twenty five years now in
2:19
Speaker 1: the front office, doing various roles, most notably recently a
2:23
Speaker 1: lot of scouting and running pre draft workouts and just
2:26
Speaker 1: doing all things scouting there for the Pacers. He's now
2:31
Speaker 1: a part of IU basketball at least will be beginning
2:34
Speaker 1: this weekend. I think he told me yesterday at the
2:36
Speaker 1: game that his last day officially with the Pacers is
2:38
Speaker 1: going to be a Saturday, But he is going to
2:42
Speaker 1: be helping Darren DeVries and IU coaching staff as they
2:47
Speaker 1: look to build I would say, a better roster for
2:52
Speaker 1: next season and in the seasons beyond. What you know,
2:55
Speaker 1: someone that's covered the Pacers for a long time, and
2:57
Speaker 1: what can you tell us just about Ryan Carr he's
3:00
Speaker 1: potentially going to bring to to Indiana basketball.
3:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
3:04
Speaker 2: So also, first of all, I thought this was a
3:06
Speaker 2: no brainer route for them to go to to hire
3:08
Speaker 2: somebody in this GM role. It's an area we've seen
3:11
Speaker 2: so many teams out go towards.
3:12
Speaker 3: Some of them have.
3:13
Speaker 2: More been in more I don't know, celebratory and honorary
3:17
Speaker 2: roles right where it's like famous NBA players is there
3:21
Speaker 2: and there is some value to that, right you know,
3:25
Speaker 2: he could call on a recruit perhaps or be able
3:28
Speaker 2: to have a relationship.
3:29
Speaker 3: There is some value.
3:30
Speaker 2: But this is what I think the present, not even
3:33
Speaker 2: the future is in college basketball, and so I was
3:36
Speaker 2: a little bit surprised they took some time with it.
3:38
Speaker 2: But also in hindsight, you kind of can understand it
3:41
Speaker 2: because you want to get it right. You want a
3:43
Speaker 2: guy that, in this case, Darren Devrees is comfortable with that.
3:46
Speaker 2: They have a good relationship with that. They have a
3:49
Speaker 2: similar vision for not just basketball and how to build
3:52
Speaker 2: a team, but how to recruit, how to handle all
3:56
Speaker 2: of those things. And so I don't mind as much
3:59
Speaker 2: that Devrees took some time I'm here and figured out
4:02
Speaker 2: what he needed. I think that's any good leader is
4:05
Speaker 2: you understand your strengths and then you try to go
4:07
Speaker 2: hire someone to build up those weaknesses or give you
4:11
Speaker 2: someone where you can be more valuable with your time
4:15
Speaker 2: and not spend you know, various things. That's what makes
4:18
Speaker 2: me so impressed on the football side with Kirk Signetti.
4:21
Speaker 2: Certainly he has a GM type role for somebody, but
4:24
Speaker 2: he's in on all those decisions and I expect for
4:26
Speaker 2: that to continue here. But a year ago I wrote
4:30
Speaker 2: after Devers is hiring a list of you know, five individuals,
4:33
Speaker 2: and IU was so fortunate because they have so many
4:37
Speaker 2: connections throughout professional basketball. There's scouts overseas that live overseas.
4:42
Speaker 2: There's Lawrence Frank's probably the most well regarded one or
4:45
Speaker 2: most popular one with the Clippers. But Ryan Carr has
4:49
Speaker 2: been in it for three decades now of professional sports,
4:53
Speaker 2: and so the biggest thing not only do you get
4:55
Speaker 2: is his basketball intellect and all of that, but it's
4:59
Speaker 2: his rolodecks. There's not an agent he can't call upon
5:01
Speaker 2: whether no matter the agency, and we all know how
5:05
Speaker 2: much it's seemingly agents are running college basketball more than anything.
5:09
Speaker 2: And the same goes with probably appareled companies and things
5:13
Speaker 2: like that, and so there's nobody he can't call.
5:15
Speaker 3: On the other side.
5:16
Speaker 2: If there's somebody on your roster, I think that it
5:19
Speaker 2: could be valuable that is deciding between going to the
5:22
Speaker 2: draft and things like that. There's no GM or team
5:25
Speaker 2: president in the NBA he can't call to get the
5:27
Speaker 2: player feedback. I think that's a valuable tool that they
5:30
Speaker 2: can offer essentially to these recruits and players. And so
5:35
Speaker 2: through all of that, you're getting a guy that's well organized,
5:37
Speaker 2: that is hardworking, that's had to earn everything, and I
5:40
Speaker 2: think he's just going to come him and basically make
5:43
Speaker 2: himself available to Darren and build up this roster in
5:46
Speaker 2: a more sustainable outcome.
5:47
Speaker 3: I think, so.
5:50
Speaker 1: Kind of digging in maybe to his role with the
5:52
Speaker 1: Pacers and what he's done. Obviously he's kind of if
5:55
Speaker 1: you look at his bio, he's held a variety of roles.
5:58
Speaker 1: But what do you maybe see as the biggest strengths
6:01
Speaker 1: that he's been able to gather over his time in
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Speaker 1: the NBA that may be transferable to what he's going
6:06
Speaker 1: to be doing in Bloomington.
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Speaker 3: I mean the first thing that comes to mind is
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Speaker 3: working with agents.
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Speaker 2: As sad as that is, that's probably the number one
6:13
Speaker 2: thing outside of building up your draft binder. Right, So
6:17
Speaker 2: he's spending one hundred plus days on the road Alex
6:20
Speaker 2: every single year evaluating players across the country for the
6:24
Speaker 2: draft purposes previously obviously, so they would build up binders
6:28
Speaker 2: and he would be as prepared as possible. So when
6:31
Speaker 2: you go into the draft room and really the week
6:32
Speaker 2: before that, he would be there as the primary resource
6:37
Speaker 2: for first Larry Bird and then Kevin Pritchard to make
6:41
Speaker 2: a decision. So it's character building and so much or
6:45
Speaker 2: not building, but understanding and so a lot of that
6:47
Speaker 2: is knowing people in all the right places to make
6:50
Speaker 2: phone calls to Hey, what is this guy really like
6:53
Speaker 2: right now? Like we see this persona, we see what's
6:57
Speaker 2: going on there, but let's really get to the bottom
6:59
Speaker 2: of this. This is the guy that as a high
7:00
Speaker 2: character individual, and I think leans more conservative and high
7:05
Speaker 2: high character players for example. So I think that that
7:09
Speaker 2: is informative about maybe the type of player he is
7:12
Speaker 2: looking for when they are trying to get a guy
7:15
Speaker 2: at Indiana. But I think that trade being being hard working,
7:20
Speaker 2: organized and being able to call upon anybody in this
7:23
Speaker 2: basketball world will be incredibly valuable right now and what
7:26
Speaker 2: is a very competitive landscape.
7:30
Speaker 1: So what do you he talked to. I don't know
7:32
Speaker 1: if you have a chance to watch, but we sat
7:33
Speaker 1: down with him last night for about twenty twenty five
7:36
Speaker 1: minutes before the game, a couple of us in the
7:38
Speaker 1: media and asked him some questions. He talked about, you know,
7:41
Speaker 1: like right now as he was getting ready for the
7:43
Speaker 1: Pacers draft next summer, and he was kind of looking
7:45
Speaker 1: at players that were kind of at the top line
7:48
Speaker 1: of the draft, and it's going to be a little
7:50
Speaker 1: bit different obviously with what he's going to be evaluating
7:53
Speaker 1: at Indiana in terms of the portal is do you
7:56
Speaker 1: think there's an adjustment there at all, kind of going
7:59
Speaker 1: from evaluating the Darren Petersons and the Aja Debandsas of
8:03
Speaker 1: the world to maybe evaluating a little bit lower level
8:07
Speaker 1: of the sport and trying to not just find guys
8:11
Speaker 1: that are able to come into the program that maybe starters,
8:16
Speaker 1: but also finding guys maybe who are a little bit
8:18
Speaker 1: under the radar that you can develop over the course
8:21
Speaker 1: of year, not just from the portal, but also from
8:22
Speaker 1: the high school ranks. How big of an adjustment and
8:25
Speaker 1: you're also covering a much bigger universe of player I mean,
8:28
Speaker 1: you're talking about three hundred and what sixty programs in
8:31
Speaker 1: Division I college basketball as opposed to you know, obviously
8:35
Speaker 1: the NBA there's thirty teams and there's a finite number
8:39
Speaker 1: of guys who actually are draftable, whereas in this it's
8:43
Speaker 1: kind of a much bigger landscape in terms of the
8:45
Speaker 1: players that could be potential additions to the program.
8:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest adjustment there will just be
8:52
Speaker 2: high school kids. I don't worry about the other things.
8:54
Speaker 2: And here's why, And maybe your audience isn't necessarily entirely
8:57
Speaker 2: aware of this. But when they're preparing for the draft
9:00
Speaker 2: number one, they're doing it like three years out. So
9:03
Speaker 2: they're building up binders so that they can see players progress.
9:06
Speaker 2: And obviously the top tiers are only spinning one year
9:09
Speaker 2: or whatever, right, but to have a big folder on
9:13
Speaker 2: each guy essentially, and also by that you got second
9:17
Speaker 2: round picks, which would become a creditly valuable. You have
9:19
Speaker 2: two way slots which allow for the player to play
9:22
Speaker 2: G League and NBA. You're building up a summer league team,
9:25
Speaker 2: which is one of his responsibilities, and what that entailed
9:29
Speaker 2: was he would talk to agents, get a feel for
9:32
Speaker 2: players market, and when the players go undrafted and did
9:35
Speaker 2: not have a team alex right after the draft ends,
9:38
Speaker 2: that's when these individuals get on the call. Hey can
9:40
Speaker 2: I get this You know Creighton Steven Ashworth, can I
9:42
Speaker 2: get him on a summer league deal? And then those
9:45
Speaker 2: develop into more deals, so than Ashworth was in sign
9:48
Speaker 2: an exhibit ten contract I believe with the Pacers, then
9:50
Speaker 2: played for the G League team here with the Noblesville Boom.
9:54
Speaker 2: So in terms of from the high level to low level,
9:57
Speaker 2: I don't worry about that. It's just the high school
9:59
Speaker 2: as much different because NBA people are not, for NBA purposes,
10:04
Speaker 2: allowed in high school gyms and to do all of
10:06
Speaker 2: that type of thing, and so.
10:08
Speaker 1: They can go to like Coop Summon and a couple
10:10
Speaker 1: other like US some USA basketball stuff, right, But that's really.
10:13
Speaker 2: I think that's something that's changed in the last couple
10:15
Speaker 2: of years. I believe is opened up a few select things.
10:19
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's always come in and I think roughly
10:23
Speaker 2: for a draft labeled guys like one to one hundred,
10:26
Speaker 2: so there is a great depth of knowledge and players
10:30
Speaker 2: that he had to be prepared for, have an understanding for.
10:34
Speaker 2: And just take this year, a second round pick. You
10:38
Speaker 2: got one out of Marquette, you got one out of
10:40
Speaker 2: Liberty University, and then you bring in guys for training camp,
10:43
Speaker 2: and then you bring in guys before that actually for
10:46
Speaker 2: summer league. So I don't worry about that level at all.
10:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think two things kind of come to
10:51
Speaker 1: mind and just thinking out loud here in terms of
10:56
Speaker 1: all these relationships and these these guys and maybe he's
10:59
Speaker 1: cut deals with for some league, there's got to be
11:01
Speaker 1: connections that he's made with people close to those players
11:04
Speaker 1: that now have connections with other players that they're going
11:07
Speaker 1: to go back and say, hey, I had a great
11:09
Speaker 1: experience with Ryan Carr. You know, maybe I have this
11:11
Speaker 1: player now. This is an attractive option for me to
11:15
Speaker 1: maybe send him to Indiana because I know he's trustworthy
11:17
Speaker 1: and he's taken care of my guy in the past.
11:19
Speaker 1: And the second thing I would say just in terms
11:24
Speaker 1: of being able to evaluate at multiple levels. You know,
11:29
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, it's it's
11:31
Speaker 1: still basketball, and he to me seems like a film junkie,
11:34
Speaker 1: a guy that's watched a ton of films, so he's
11:37
Speaker 1: gonna maybe transition a little bit into to watching you know,
11:40
Speaker 1: ey b l and Adidas and under armour film, but
11:44
Speaker 1: he still is going to have kind of the background
11:46
Speaker 1: knowledge what to look for. And maybe that's something that
11:51
Speaker 1: that I don't want to say is a piece that
11:53
Speaker 1: was being missed. But you only have so many hours
11:56
Speaker 1: in a day as a coaching staff and with all
11:58
Speaker 1: the other responsibilities, I think having somebody in place that
12:01
Speaker 1: is going to really you know, he referenced it multiple times,
12:05
Speaker 1: just like pouring over film and watching film. The fact
12:09
Speaker 1: that you know they're gonna have somebody to do that
12:11
Speaker 1: who knows. Maybe he'll bring and support people and a
12:13
Speaker 1: couple of people underneath him as the years go on
12:16
Speaker 1: to assist in that type of thing. But you know,
12:18
Speaker 1: I think those things are are potentially really valuable.
12:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's levels to that I wonder. I don't
12:23
Speaker 2: know what they're set up is at IU, but the Pacers,
12:26
Speaker 2: their their influence and gay data gathering and analytics has
12:31
Speaker 2: grown in recent years. I think they got like six
12:33
Speaker 2: individuals on analytics from the Pacers side. And I remember
12:36
Speaker 2: talking with Ryan about this when it really took off,
12:39
Speaker 2: I don't know, six to eight years ago, and he's yet, Yeah,
12:41
Speaker 2: that is a bigger piece to the pie and everything.
12:45
Speaker 2: And I think you also raise a good point here
12:47
Speaker 2: is whether it's connections he's had in the past that
12:49
Speaker 2: he's helped out and all those individuals previously. Is there's
12:55
Speaker 2: levels here that it can be incredibly valuable. And with Ryan,
12:58
Speaker 2: what you see is what you get. He's not going
13:00
Speaker 2: to lie to your face, none of that. He's the
13:02
Speaker 2: most honest, straightforward guy that I've met, probably in basketball
13:06
Speaker 2: quite frankly, just an honest dude, and he's going to
13:08
Speaker 2: tell it like it is for these guys and I
13:10
Speaker 2: think some of that is probably missing him basketball, where
13:12
Speaker 2: you want an honest assessment from high schools where you
13:15
Speaker 2: stand or what it could take to reach this level.
13:18
Speaker 2: And a trust factor. And Ryan has that trustworthy factor,
13:21
Speaker 2: no question about it as he tries to here, you know,
13:25
Speaker 2: build up this roster. And I think when you think
13:27
Speaker 2: about it, I think he touched on this as well
13:29
Speaker 2: in his opening comments is what he's gone through is
13:32
Speaker 2: now kind of what college is, right with free agency
13:36
Speaker 2: and the draft and trying and then the high school
13:40
Speaker 2: level and bringing guys in, those are kind of similar
13:43
Speaker 2: similarities that he's experienced previously.
13:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.
13:46
Speaker 1: The other thing that that just popped in my head
13:48
Speaker 1: just in terms of his experience in the NBA when
13:54
Speaker 1: they are bringing guys in on visits and guys that
13:57
Speaker 1: are you know, potentially let's say Lamar Wilkerson for example,
14:00
Speaker 1: a year ago, he can he can go and talk
14:03
Speaker 1: to that player and say, hey, you know, I've been
14:06
Speaker 1: on the side of things where I'm scouting. I know
14:09
Speaker 1: what NBA teams are looking for. I can help you
14:11
Speaker 1: come in here, identify the one, two or three things.
14:15
Speaker 1: I can talk to teams and say, what do they
14:17
Speaker 1: like about you? What do they not like about you.
14:19
Speaker 1: We can help you make a plan to where maybe
14:22
Speaker 1: right now you're not a second round pick, but a
14:24
Speaker 1: year from now you are a second round pick. He's
14:26
Speaker 1: been around pros, he knows. You know, a guy like
14:29
Speaker 1: Andrew Nimhard who came in was kind of undervalued, was
14:33
Speaker 1: brought in by the Pacers, and all of a sudden,
14:35
Speaker 1: you know, he's a starter on a team going to
14:37
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals. So not only has he been around pros,
14:40
Speaker 1: he kind of knows what it takes to get there.
14:41
Speaker 1: So I think that can be incredibly value valuable when
14:44
Speaker 1: you're building a program trying to recruit guys. So you
14:46
Speaker 1: can say, hey, I've got this guy that's worked in
14:48
Speaker 1: the NBA for this amount of time. He knows what
14:50
Speaker 1: it takes to get there. We've identified two or three
14:52
Speaker 1: things that we really think can help you get to
14:54
Speaker 1: the next level. Here's our plan to get you to
14:57
Speaker 1: the next level.
14:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, spot on, right there, You're right, Darren can
15:01
Speaker 2: go after a player and want to recruit him and say, hey,
15:03
Speaker 2: here's this resource that we're going to always have available
15:05
Speaker 2: for you, and on the other side, we'll prepare you
15:08
Speaker 2: for the draft. Guess what Ryan's been on the other
15:10
Speaker 2: side of the draft interview rooms at the Draft Comline
15:14
Speaker 2: and on these pre draft combine pre draft workouts. We'll
15:18
Speaker 2: have you better prepared than anybody because he's the one
15:21
Speaker 2: that's been running those for the Pacers for several decades now.
15:24
Speaker 2: And so what to expect, what questions are going to
15:26
Speaker 2: be asked, what's the medical testing like, so that you're
15:30
Speaker 2: braced and prepared for all of that. And I think
15:33
Speaker 2: those interviews are especially important that they hold in Chicago
15:37
Speaker 2: each May, where teams get a select and talk to
15:40
Speaker 2: a select number of individuals for a couple of days
15:43
Speaker 2: and they only have a short time with them, So
15:45
Speaker 2: you have a short amount of time to make a
15:47
Speaker 2: big impact with that first impression with this teams because
15:50
Speaker 2: then they'll bring you in. So I do see it
15:53
Speaker 2: like you Alex in twofold is you can not only
15:56
Speaker 2: use his eyes and ears and resources to get players,
15:59
Speaker 2: but then use his experience as a great asset to
16:04
Speaker 2: suggest to these players what they need to do and
16:06
Speaker 2: have them prepared for whatever is next. And that includes overseas,
16:10
Speaker 2: by the way, because he handles international as well.
16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a market that's obviously we've seen what Illinois
16:17
Speaker 1: has done. A couple other programs in the Big Ten
16:19
Speaker 1: really have kind of done a really good job of
16:22
Speaker 1: finding guys over there and bringing them over impact players.
16:25
Speaker 1: So hopefully that's another market that Indiana can explore. But
16:29
Speaker 1: kind of transitioning now to like the actual roster building
16:32
Speaker 1: with Indiana basketball. One of the things that really stood
16:35
Speaker 1: out from what he said last night was he wants
16:38
Speaker 1: to help get the program into a period where there's
16:42
Speaker 1: more continuity and more player attention rather than having to
16:46
Speaker 1: go full portal every year. And I think right now
16:50
Speaker 1: what's top of mind for a lot of people is
16:51
Speaker 1: you look at this Indiana team and I think the
16:53
Speaker 1: top six players right now are going to be gone
16:55
Speaker 1: from next season, and you start to look around and say, what,
16:58
Speaker 1: who's going to be back that's actually done anything on
17:00
Speaker 1: the court this year. Nick Dorn Trent Sisly really the
17:02
Speaker 1: only two names that come to mind. But I've they
17:05
Speaker 1: got three freshmen coming in signed right now, so I
17:08
Speaker 1: think it's another instance of where they're gonna have to
17:10
Speaker 1: go heavy in the portal this spring to build out
17:12
Speaker 1: a team. But I was it really caught my interest
17:18
Speaker 1: what he said just in terms of bringing in more
17:21
Speaker 1: high school guys and trying to develop them and retain them,
17:24
Speaker 1: because I think for a program like Indiana that's struggled
17:28
Speaker 1: for as long as it has, and I don't think
17:30
Speaker 1: they're going to be a team that's kind of going
17:32
Speaker 1: the one and done route heavy every year. I mean,
17:35
Speaker 1: that's not to say if there's a guy in your
17:36
Speaker 1: backyard that you could get that's you know, a potential
17:39
Speaker 1: one and done, you don't take a chance and get
17:41
Speaker 1: that player. But I think for Indiana, the most sustainable
17:45
Speaker 1: path of success is bringing in freshmen developing them over
17:49
Speaker 1: two or three years so you have that continuity, so
17:51
Speaker 1: you have those experienced players within your system. They don't
17:53
Speaker 1: have that right now, they're probably not going to have
17:55
Speaker 1: it for a couple of years. My question for you
17:58
Speaker 1: is do you do you think there's gonna be the
18:00
Speaker 1: patients amongst the Indian A fan base to be able
18:04
Speaker 1: to kind of execute this plan, because you look at
18:08
Speaker 1: it's a win now mentality right now in all sports,
18:12
Speaker 1: not just professional sports, but college sports. But I think
18:16
Speaker 1: there's gonna have to be a little bit of patience
18:18
Speaker 1: as they kind of flip this over the next couple
18:21
Speaker 1: of years. Because otherwise I think you're in a really
18:25
Speaker 1: dangerous cycle if you're just gonna go refill your team
18:28
Speaker 1: every year completely from the portal. You've got to have
18:29
Speaker 1: some young guys that you developed.
18:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not sustainable at all.
18:33
Speaker 2: I understand them doing it certainly this year and probably
18:36
Speaker 2: leaning heavily on it as well next year. Because you
18:38
Speaker 2: also can't just come in and be like, all right,
18:40
Speaker 2: we got eight freshmen, now let's build. It's like, all right, well,
18:43
Speaker 2: that group wouldn't compete either way. So that's where you
18:46
Speaker 2: really need at least a couple of years to then
18:48
Speaker 2: have that su stability to then build on the sustainability
18:52
Speaker 2: I view moving forward. So you got your three freshmen,
18:55
Speaker 2: I think that's probably a good number, three to four
18:58
Speaker 2: a normal year, and then you holes through transfer portal
19:03
Speaker 2: or as Ryan's used to it in NBA free agency.
19:05
Speaker 2: I think that's what the Pacers have done. They've had
19:08
Speaker 2: now this isn't applied to college, but where they've had
19:10
Speaker 2: their great success is through trades and valuing players higher
19:15
Speaker 2: than the previous team did.
19:17
Speaker 3: Well.
19:18
Speaker 2: That would speak a little bit to the transfer portal,
19:20
Speaker 2: and you'd like to have two or three of those,
19:22
Speaker 2: But yes, you do not want an entirely new team
19:25
Speaker 2: of all that, and I think that was what Ryan
19:27
Speaker 2: was getting at with all that, because, uh, you want
19:30
Speaker 2: players that know the system, that know the school, that
19:33
Speaker 2: know these environments. I think we've seen Alex them go,
19:36
Speaker 2: especially into Mackie, and just look shell shocked. And to me,
19:40
Speaker 2: that also spoke to a group that's never been there.
19:42
Speaker 2: There's nobody they could lean on of what to expect
19:45
Speaker 2: and how to be prepared. And the students are just
19:47
Speaker 2: on top of you yelling and there's nothing that can
19:50
Speaker 2: replicate that. And that's an experience off the court as
19:53
Speaker 2: you're you know that a lesson that can be applied
19:56
Speaker 2: then on the court along these same lines. So no,
19:59
Speaker 2: I think that that the model that Ryan would certainly
20:02
Speaker 2: be looking to lean on here is IU tries to
20:05
Speaker 2: build it up.
20:05
Speaker 3: Fans have to be a little bit patient.
20:07
Speaker 2: I think football helps some with that because I too
20:10
Speaker 2: have been disappointed with some of these crowds Alex when
20:12
Speaker 2: I look up and both outside of the Purdue game,
20:15
Speaker 2: the balconies are relatively empty, and I want to see.
20:18
Speaker 3: More from students.
20:19
Speaker 2: I remember being that student back in the day where
20:21
Speaker 2: I didn't miss any games. I don't know what's going
20:24
Speaker 2: on there, so that one frustrates me a little bit
20:26
Speaker 2: as an IU alum, certainly, But patients will be necessary here.
20:30
Speaker 2: I think you got a ball coach for certain with
20:32
Speaker 2: Darren Devrees, and he's surrounding him with smart people. And
20:36
Speaker 2: the other thing I would emphasize here, as they started
20:39
Speaker 2: over from ground zero this season, there's nobody back that
20:43
Speaker 2: I know of outside of PR as sports information director.
20:46
Speaker 3: That's it.
20:47
Speaker 2: I mean, you changed out the medical staff, you changed
20:49
Speaker 2: out the strength coach, no continuity, and so there's a
20:52
Speaker 2: lot to be learned and really some foundations to be
20:56
Speaker 2: set to be built upon those successful years in the past.
21:02
Speaker 1: So I'm asking you maybe to put your fan hat
21:05
Speaker 1: on a little bit here because I know you've been
21:06
Speaker 1: to so many games, and I know you care a
21:08
Speaker 1: lot about this program, and you went to IU, you
21:10
Speaker 1: followed this team closer this year. What do you see,
21:14
Speaker 1: just count from a basketball perspective with this team? What
21:17
Speaker 1: have you liked in terms of the product this season
21:19
Speaker 1: and what it maybe has concerned you.
21:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the thing that stands out most is just
21:24
Speaker 2: the more modern play. Like Woodson clearly had no interest
21:28
Speaker 2: in all of that, and so the fact here that
21:31
Speaker 2: you're seeing Devrees emphasize maybe a little too much, quite frankly,
21:35
Speaker 2: the three point shot where it just go down and
21:37
Speaker 2: throw it up. I'd like a little bit more patience
21:40
Speaker 2: on that front. But I like the fact that, look,
21:42
Speaker 2: this is Indiana, there's no excuse not to have shooters
21:45
Speaker 2: Like I feel like you could go take the second
21:47
Speaker 2: best player on Westfield and throw him on the roster
21:50
Speaker 2: and he'd be better shooter than what I use had
21:53
Speaker 2: in previous years. So that has been a frustration of
21:56
Speaker 2: mine in previous years. I think, without question, with this
21:59
Speaker 2: IU Ross there's got to be high IQ, fast paced
22:03
Speaker 2: three point shooting, and then I want to see some
22:05
Speaker 2: inside out combos. So maybe that's probably been my biggest
22:08
Speaker 2: frustration Alex is I don't see any true center on
22:11
Speaker 2: the roster. So you see Bailey, you see Alexis playing
22:14
Speaker 2: out of position, not maximizing those guys's strengths, and then
22:18
Speaker 2: kind of going off of what we were just talking
22:20
Speaker 2: about earlier, the depth has not been there nearly as much,
22:23
Speaker 2: and so that has led to a titaned rotation in
22:26
Speaker 2: some lineup combinations as they try to just figure it
22:29
Speaker 2: out where when guys don't have some continuity together or
22:34
Speaker 2: in their play recently, Like some guys are just really
22:37
Speaker 2: struggling right now, and I think the challenge for them
22:40
Speaker 2: at this point in the season as they're going through
22:42
Speaker 2: this all together is a lot of them are at
22:45
Speaker 2: tough spots right now that they need to overcome, and
22:47
Speaker 2: they just have not had that success, like to have
22:50
Speaker 2: the dry spells and to take some bad shots and
22:52
Speaker 2: to throw an alley up dunk in a like tie
22:55
Speaker 2: game with one minute left, like what are we doing here?
22:58
Speaker 2: Those have been some of the frustrations among Yeah.
23:00
Speaker 1: I mean, I think when you kind of look at
23:03
Speaker 1: also the portal and how it can be dangerous, you
23:06
Speaker 1: kind of see it with this Ie roster. Obviously it
23:09
Speaker 1: can bear fruit with a player like Lamar Wilkerson, but
23:12
Speaker 1: when you're looking at building a roster in such a
23:14
Speaker 1: short period of time and you don't really particularly and
23:17
Speaker 1: this is not to make an excuse for Darren de
23:19
Speaker 1: Reeze or any coach that takes over a program, but
23:21
Speaker 1: when you're building a program at warp speed in a
23:24
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, when you're still also trying to put
23:26
Speaker 1: your staff together, you're basically just trying to get people
23:30
Speaker 1: in the door of the program and figure it out later,
23:32
Speaker 1: whereas I think in the future to build a more
23:35
Speaker 1: sustainable winning program. This is why it's important to have
23:39
Speaker 1: some of those high school players, because those are players
23:41
Speaker 1: you've watched over a long period of time, you developed
23:43
Speaker 1: a relationship with, you know them on and off the court,
23:47
Speaker 1: and you kind of know what you can expect when
23:48
Speaker 1: you get there. If you're just take over a program
23:52
Speaker 1: and start watching guys in the portal for two or
23:54
Speaker 1: three weeks, you're gonna miss on some. And Indiana's missed
23:57
Speaker 1: on some this year. Looking at you know, Josiah Miles
23:59
Speaker 1: has been a disappointment in terms of what he's been
24:02
Speaker 1: able to contribute. I know, he was a guy that
24:03
Speaker 1: looked at coming into the season as potential starter six man.
24:07
Speaker 1: He's really not panned out. Jason Drake and Josh Harris
24:11
Speaker 1: have not played. The two European guys that they've gotten
24:13
Speaker 1: have really contributed. I mean, you've got five scholarship players
24:16
Speaker 1: on this team that have really not contributed from a
24:19
Speaker 1: statistical perspective all year, and you kind of ask about
24:23
Speaker 1: the depth.
24:23
Speaker 3: Well, there it is.
24:24
Speaker 1: They've got too many guys on the roster right now
24:26
Speaker 1: who have basically given them nothing, and the fact that
24:29
Speaker 1: they've given them nothing this season really kind of brings
24:34
Speaker 1: into question what the future is moving forward of those guys.
24:37
Speaker 1: Are they players you want to keep around? Are they
24:38
Speaker 1: players that you feel like you can replace and get
24:40
Speaker 1: better players? And that's kind of ties back into where
24:43
Speaker 1: I think having someone in place in this GM role
24:46
Speaker 1: can have you better prepared to manage the roster on
24:48
Speaker 1: a year to year basis, because not only do you
24:51
Speaker 1: have an idea of what you're bringing here from a
24:52
Speaker 1: high school perspective, you can look at the portal or
24:56
Speaker 1: look at the college basketball landscape talk to people. I mean,
25:00
Speaker 1: I know, I know the portal opens in on April seventh,
25:04
Speaker 1: but or whatever the day is, we all know the
25:06
Speaker 1: portal's never closed, right. There's a lot of talking behind
25:10
Speaker 1: the scenes going on, talking to agents like I'm sure
25:13
Speaker 1: agents are already contacting programs like this is my guy,
25:16
Speaker 1: he's probably gonna be leaving, Like what's the market for him?
25:19
Speaker 1: So having someone like Ryan Carr in place for that
25:24
Speaker 1: takes some of the load off, because I'm sure Darren
25:26
Speaker 1: de Reeve doesn't want to be talking to agents during
25:28
Speaker 1: the middle of the season when he's trying to coach
25:30
Speaker 1: his team and get to the NCAAAA tournament. So I
25:33
Speaker 1: think that all kind of ties back to the idea
25:37
Speaker 1: of having a better balance between high school recruiting and
25:41
Speaker 1: portal recruiting, and just having a better feel for the
25:44
Speaker 1: overall landscape of who's out there and who's available so
25:47
Speaker 1: you don't have to reach. And you talked about some
25:49
Speaker 1: of the inconsistencies with not seeing an inside outside game.
25:52
Speaker 1: I mean, on this roster on a really good Big
25:55
Speaker 1: ten team outside of Lamar Wilkerson, I don't know if
25:58
Speaker 1: there's a player that's starting on a the good Big
26:00
Speaker 1: ten team on this roster. The point guard position is
26:02
Speaker 1: obviously Connor Enwright I think has had a lot of
26:05
Speaker 1: really strong moments. Tayton Connorway has been inconsistent, He's also
26:08
Speaker 1: been hurt. And then the five position. You know, Darren
26:11
Speaker 1: de Reese has talked a little bit about this. I
26:13
Speaker 1: asked him a couple of weeks ago just about maybe
26:15
Speaker 1: the difference between the Big twelve and the Big ten,
26:17
Speaker 1: and he talked about the strength of the four and
26:19
Speaker 1: the five. I think as much as Indiana fans want
26:22
Speaker 1: to get away from having a big man that you
26:25
Speaker 1: just slow the ball into. I don't think you have
26:26
Speaker 1: to have that, but you at least have to have
26:28
Speaker 1: a guy that you can drop the ball down and
26:30
Speaker 1: get yourself an easy bucket. You don't want to be
26:32
Speaker 1: dependent every night on having to make twelve to fifteen
26:35
Speaker 1: threes to win because it's just not a sustainable thing.
26:38
Speaker 3: Could not agree more.
26:39
Speaker 2: That's exactly it, right, You want to have a complimented roster.
26:43
Speaker 2: And it goes on the other side. A lot of
26:45
Speaker 2: my concerns have been on the defensive end, and exactly
26:47
Speaker 2: there's a couple guys on this roster Alex that opponents
26:51
Speaker 2: very clearly hunt every single game and they're going to
26:54
Speaker 2: continue to hunt those players until you figure out a solution.
26:57
Speaker 3: And in so he has to play.
26:58
Speaker 1: He has to play them though, because like I said,
27:01
Speaker 1: you didn't have anyone to go else to fall back on.
27:03
Speaker 2: Right, then that goes into the depth conversation and the
27:05
Speaker 2: lack of that bench that you can really lean on,
27:08
Speaker 2: because what is he working with? Probably seven guys that
27:11
Speaker 2: he really trusts in these moments. That's basically it. And
27:15
Speaker 2: so maybe a couple guys get in foul trouble that
27:18
Speaker 2: severely limits what you're trying to do here. So yeah,
27:21
Speaker 2: I'm not saying by any means you need a seven
27:23
Speaker 2: foot five big like Purdue has traditionally leaned on, for example,
27:27
Speaker 2: But you do want a bully inside, a guy that
27:29
Speaker 2: can rebound the basketball consistently and then kind of run
27:33
Speaker 2: the pick and roll offense sometimes because I think too
27:37
Speaker 2: often you rot up this point. Is shooting as great
27:40
Speaker 2: as it can be, there's gonna be games where you
27:42
Speaker 2: just don't have it. So what do you fall back on?
27:44
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure we've seen a ton for this
27:46
Speaker 2: IU team to fall back on. I think instead it's
27:49
Speaker 2: we're gonna shoot and wish that we're gonna change the
27:51
Speaker 2: feel of this. And that was the case the other
27:53
Speaker 2: night against Northwestern, that was the case in the one
27:56
Speaker 2: of the games out and on the West Coast. Or
27:57
Speaker 2: you just kept shooting and it never fell. And I'm like, Okay,
28:00
Speaker 2: what's next. Can you put somebody in a pick and roll?
28:02
Speaker 2: Can you throw it in the post? Can you give
28:04
Speaker 2: it to Bailey on on the free throw line extended
28:07
Speaker 2: and allow him to operate with and maybe somebody is
28:10
Speaker 2: cutting back door? Those are some of the ways I
28:12
Speaker 2: think this offense continue to grow and evolve. When we
28:15
Speaker 2: see year two with Darren Devreez and his staff has
28:18
Speaker 2: more of their players because I acknowledge like he was,
28:20
Speaker 2: you know, he's hired. You try to fill out a
28:22
Speaker 2: roster quickly, you're competing with other schools within nil and
28:26
Speaker 2: trying to figure that out. That's where somebody like Ryan
28:29
Speaker 2: in this case, will bring that stability to your point.
28:32
Speaker 2: He'll be watching these players not just one year before
28:35
Speaker 2: they're in the transfer portal, but several years.
28:38
Speaker 1: And well, if he starts making these binders on these
28:41
Speaker 1: guys and they're in high school, I mean maybe they're
28:43
Speaker 1: in two years in college, and all of a sudden
28:44
Speaker 1: he can say, hey, I watched this kid in high school.
28:47
Speaker 1: He's done two years at let's say a Missouri Valley school.
28:50
Speaker 1: I think he's the guy that we can you know,
28:51
Speaker 1: if he goes into portal, we can go get and
28:53
Speaker 1: really helpless last thing here, kind of switching gears completely.
28:56
Speaker 1: Obviously been a tough year for the Pacers, but I
29:00
Speaker 1: know that's kind of your your primary focus over at
29:02
Speaker 1: field House Files. Really enjoy the emails that you send
29:06
Speaker 1: out your stories. I guess you gave me a free
29:10
Speaker 1: subscription there, so I appreciate that and I continue to
29:12
Speaker 1: continue to read the stuff. But it's been obviously a
29:15
Speaker 1: transition year with everything going on with the Haliburton injury.
29:19
Speaker 1: They've obviously made a pretty significant trade, and a lot
29:22
Speaker 1: hinging on kind of the draft lottery and how that
29:25
Speaker 1: all shakes out, Like what's the best case scenario in
29:29
Speaker 1: terms of what can happen here for the Pacers, like
29:32
Speaker 1: the rest of the season and what going into the draft.
29:34
Speaker 1: I mean, they really want to get that top four pick,
29:36
Speaker 1: I assume.
29:36
Speaker 3: Mm hm oh one, yeah, I think number one.
29:40
Speaker 2: Given their health issues, that's been the number one issue
29:43
Speaker 2: with this Pacers team, which has led to them to
29:45
Speaker 2: this point. I mean the first month and a half, Alex,
29:47
Speaker 2: I've covered this team for like thirteen years. I've never
29:50
Speaker 2: seen any team suffer this many injuries at one time,
29:53
Speaker 2: to the point where they had twenty different transactions before
29:56
Speaker 2: the first two months of the season were over, bringing
29:59
Speaker 2: in emergency hardships, signing guys to ten days, calling guys
30:03
Speaker 2: up from the G League. Quite honestly, just trying to
30:05
Speaker 2: fill a roster kind of like we were talking about
30:07
Speaker 2: IU A little bit, but it's a group that's coming
30:09
Speaker 2: off you know, having a halftime lead in the NBA
30:12
Speaker 2: Finals of Game seven, you knew it was going to
30:14
Speaker 2: be a down year compared to that with Tyrese missing
30:17
Speaker 2: this entire season with an achilles injury, but nothing like this.
30:20
Speaker 2: So best case scenario number one would be for no
30:23
Speaker 2: one else to get hurt because already they've had three
30:26
Speaker 2: guys have surgery, with Tyrese haliburt before the year, Obi topping.
30:30
Speaker 3: One month into the year.
30:31
Speaker 2: Johnny Furfey just had surgery the other day on his
30:34
Speaker 2: ACL a young guy who could be really benefiting from
30:37
Speaker 2: these minutes right now. So you want to finish this
30:39
Speaker 2: season healthy, and you want to land that top four
30:41
Speaker 2: pick because if it's number five through nine, it goes
30:45
Speaker 2: to the LA Clippers as part of that deal.
30:47
Speaker 3: If it's ten through thirty, they keep it.
30:49
Speaker 2: But it's not exactly a top pick, a game changer
30:52
Speaker 2: that could help them because right now, Alex, they're in
30:54
Speaker 2: a small window where they think they can win an
30:56
Speaker 2: NBA title. It's Pascal Siakam's prime will be coming off
31:00
Speaker 2: an injury, but he's probably about to enter his prime,
31:03
Speaker 2: so they really have a two, maybe three at.
31:06
Speaker 3: Best window to maximize it.
31:08
Speaker 2: So then if you can get a top four pick,
31:12
Speaker 2: there's guys you can't go wrong with, and I think
31:14
Speaker 2: that could really help add to the roster. Maybe it's
31:16
Speaker 2: a sixth man for them getting a push back to
31:19
Speaker 2: the playoffs next year in the championship.
31:21
Speaker 1: Of those top four guys that everyone kind of sees
31:25
Speaker 1: the top four, who do you think an ideal world
31:28
Speaker 1: would be the best for the Pacers if they could
31:30
Speaker 1: have any of those four.
31:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's yeah, it's basically like a four man
31:35
Speaker 2: race up there, and I think that is strategic Alex
31:39
Speaker 2: and why they put those parameters on there, right, That
31:41
Speaker 2: tells me they really like four, five to nine, an whatever,
31:45
Speaker 2: and then ten to thirty they'll figure it out. They'd
31:46
Speaker 2: probably trade the pick, would be my guess, but we'll
31:49
Speaker 2: see when we get there. I think i'd lean on
31:51
Speaker 2: aj just because of his intangibles in his body frame
31:56
Speaker 2: more than anything. I think he suits what they need.
32:00
Speaker 2: I think he's more of a modern type player. There's
32:02
Speaker 2: a lot of red flags out of Kansas certainly and
32:04
Speaker 2: even with front office, so it's not just US fans
32:07
Speaker 2: or media trying to figure out what Darren, what's going
32:11
Speaker 2: on over there? There's front office people like, hey, if
32:13
Speaker 2: you find out, let me know because I'm curious too.
32:15
Speaker 2: And that doesn't speak to an IU player. That doesn't
32:18
Speaker 2: speak to a Pacers player as well. Now, you can't
32:22
Speaker 2: get intrigued by some of those guys, right, Like I
32:25
Speaker 2: remember that was Shaden Sharp basically two or three years ago,
32:29
Speaker 2: and Portland liked him. I know, Rick Carlisle liked his game,
32:31
Speaker 2: so I would lean on. AJ Boozer is really intriguing
32:35
Speaker 2: to me as well.
32:37
Speaker 1: So the other one's Caleb Wilson, Right, we're talking for okay, okay,
32:41
Speaker 1: all right, Well, I know you'll have it covered every
32:43
Speaker 1: step of the way, looking forward to obviously once once
32:48
Speaker 1: college basketball ends, that's kind of when I dive headfirst
32:50
Speaker 1: in the NBA. It's kind of I feel like we
32:52
Speaker 1: get super excited about the start of the NBA season
32:55
Speaker 1: every year and then we kind of hit this loll
32:57
Speaker 1: maybe when the NFL playoffs are going on January fantas,
33:00
Speaker 1: thank you, right, and then and then the college basketball
33:04
Speaker 1: obviously the tournament heats up, and then that ends and
33:06
Speaker 1: we get past the Masters, and all of a sudden,
33:08
Speaker 1: it's time for the playoffs in the NBA, and that's
33:09
Speaker 1: when everyone kind of dives in. Obviously the Pacers won't
33:12
Speaker 1: be involved in that this year, but I think it's
33:14
Speaker 1: gonna be a great draft coming up and I'll be
33:16
Speaker 1: curious to kind of see how things end up there.
33:18
Speaker 1: But Scott, thanks for I know we covered a lot
33:20
Speaker 1: of ground. Really appreciate you taking the time. If you
33:23
Speaker 1: want to give a quick shout out to you to
33:25
Speaker 1: your work at Fieldhouse Files, go ahead, let people know
33:27
Speaker 1: where they can find you.
33:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, just fieldhouse files dot com. It's Substack newsletter. It's
33:32
Speaker 2: delivered right to your inbox, so it makes it easy
33:35
Speaker 2: if you're a Caitlin Clark Fever fan. I also have
33:37
Speaker 2: a lot of coverage there and I know fans are
33:39
Speaker 2: very curious also a little nervous about what might happen
33:42
Speaker 2: with this w NBA season. And then on I'm active
33:45
Speaker 2: on Twitter and Instagram as well, just at Scott Agnes.
33:49
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Scott for making the time. Really appreciate it.
33:51
Speaker 1: Always good to see you and talk to you. If
33:54
Speaker 1: you enjoyed the show, please leave us a rating and
33:55
Speaker 1: review over on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, leave us, you know,
33:59
Speaker 1: a rating and review over on YouTube as well. Excuse me,
34:03
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34:06
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34:08
Speaker 1: on the Brink.