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Triumph Over Trauma: I am Abigail · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why it was me.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll ever be the same.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Is the same what I?
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: want.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Anyway, you took what I thought I could never get back.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I quit holding on to the anger and broke down just to begin again.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I'm there.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: We have Jamie Collins and Jamie.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: She's appeared on 48 hours and the Dr A's show.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: She is also the author of I am Abigail.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Also with us today is Abigail from I am Abigail.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have you here today.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We're excited to be here.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: We're happy to be here with you.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Who wants to start first?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Jamie, do you want to start first and give like a little bit of more of an introduction than what I did?
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Sure, I'm happy to do that.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I am Jamie Collins and, like you said, I'm a wife and a mom.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: During the day, I sprint the halls of a law firm as a litigation paralegal and then, in 2019, I became a first time author and my first book was about my cousin Jessica's story.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: She went away for the weekend and while she was away, her entire family was murdered, so her mom, her two sisters and then her stepdad.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: It was my aunt and my two little cousins that were murdered and basically, we didn't ever know we were going to tell that story.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: I didn't ever know I was going to be a writer or an author and somehow, 30 years later, that's exactly what happened, and so we stepped forward to tell her story.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be here with Abby for her story, which is I'm Abigail.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: It's just such a remarkable survivor story and while these stories are obviously dark and they share a lot of dark themes and abuse type situations, there's so much light to be gleaned from the darkness that they've been through and from the people that they choose to be when they come out the other side of these things and they still fight day to be the survivors that they are, but they're here fighting and she's here speaking as part of that.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: So, abigail, do you prefer me to call you Abby or Abigail?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: What do you prefer?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Abby's fine.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, abby, give a, tell us a little bit about you.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'm 35.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I have six kids who are blended family.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I'm a survivor and I keep fighting, not only for myself, but I fight for my kids and my husband.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: We've been married for eight years.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I know this is an audio platform, but you're smiling and I think it's so important for survivors and people who are listening that are looking for that motivation and because we're gonna again.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about some deep, dark, heavy stuff, but you're smiling and I just think that's great and thank you so much for being here.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: We mentioned a little off the rest and I'm so excited to share this with you and to be a little bit of an icebreaker for you, because I know, like researching you, learning about you before today, before you even met, like you're gonna do some great things and I'm glad to be a part of that.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you, and that's all I want to do is I want to help people out.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So, before we get started on the stuff, I would like to do a little icebreaker and ask both of you individually a fun question, and, jamie, we'll start with you.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So I, as well as a lot of my listeners, are obsessed with true crime, and I fangirled a little bit when you mentioned 48 hours, because I watch 48 hours every night before I go to sleep.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: As healthy as I did, I don't know.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: But so can we talk a little bit about that experience?
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Sure, I'd be happy to.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I appeared alongside my cousin.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: It was for her story on 48 hours and it was done as a live to tell.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: So it was very much first person us telling the story, no interviewer that you hear asking questions, so it was a deeply personal kind of a story and it was just an amazing experience.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: The 48 hours team was absolutely incredible.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: They're some of the most amazing producers, first class all the way, and they made us, talking about a dark story, about as enjoyable and pleasant as it could be, and it was absolutely a great experience.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Miss Abby.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So I have a question for you, because I remember this moment.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I remember the first time after my trauma that I got to that point where I was like, do I laugh or do I cry and damn it, I'm tired of crying.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Do you remember a time and a moment that you finally just laughed?
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: It was maybe a year or two.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: We got married a year later, me and my husband, and after that, like I could laugh and joke because I knew I was free, and that was the time when I knew that I was alive.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: He would just do the craziest funny things, sometimes out of nowhere, and I would just start laughing.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: At this point, I want you all to take over and start wherever you feel comfortable and tell us a little bit about your story and then how the book came along and how you all got connected.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Rudy is my husband, along with his mom.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: So prior to meeting Jamie, we had talked about writing the book and it just he started writing it and it just never came.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: This is just too much, and we had just stopped.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Do you know how you got involved, jamie?
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: I had received a random email from a man named Jeff and he had watched the 48 hours episode that my cousin and I were on and he had emailed me because he had bought her book and he loved it and loved the way it was written.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: And at first it was just friendly, just back and forth.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: A little about him, a little about me, and then the next email basically I went to bed one night and it was about a year and a half past my first book and I promised my best friend, I'm not going to write anything for at least a year.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: I won't start anything new for a year.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I'm doing nothing for a year.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: So that night I went to bed and I was just praying and meditating.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: And I don't know what you have for me next, but whatever it is, I'm ready for it.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Just bring it to me, light it up on my path, show me like what I'm meant to do next.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: And the next morning I had an email from Jeff again my second email basically saying that he knew of Abby and Rudy and that they had an amazing story to tell and wanted to know if I would be interested in meeting them and potentially telling it.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: So that's pretty much how it came to be, and I chalk that up to either God or fate or both, but I'm really happy that it happened, and I think it really was always meant to happen, and it was always meant for us to meet and for this to be our joined path.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, because ever since and it's funny because Jamie told me today I was leaking faucet when we first started and now the faucet is just fully turned on I'm able to talk about it and just open up more about everything.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: So have you all actually met in person?
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: We'll be meeting in person in the beginning of August.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: We're going to be taking a show and we'll meet in New York City.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: That'll be a blast, oh, wow.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: How cool is that, if you mind, to take us back and tell us this started in your life when the trauma and the stuff started that the book is about.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: It started that I could remember I was little.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I was still with my biological mom and it wasn't a good environment, so I just remember bits and pieces about that.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It was like a party house all the time and I was told to put makeup on and get on the table and dance as a little girl.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: And then CPS got involved and they took us away, me and my siblings, and we ended up at a shelter for a good while I can't recall how long it was and then my uncle adopted us.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I was about nine years old when that happened and flew to Hawaii because he was in the military, and he adopted us About a month later.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: That's when all the trauma started happening more.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: That's when it started happening with him.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Did he get you and your siblings?
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure about my siblings.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: We really don't talk about it.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I hardly talk to my brother and I talk to my sister here and there, but other than that I'm the only one that I know for a fact.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: He got to, yeah, very abused.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: But he did like foster or adopt all of you all, so you all were not separated okay.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And that's what my sister wanted, because she was the oldest.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: She didn't want us separated.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Sure, we ended up being with him all the time.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So do you think that you and your siblings don't have that close relationship because of this trauma?
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I believe it is.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I know me and my brother got into arguments because he wanted me to speak freely and tell him everything that went.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: That happened and at that point I couldn't talk about it still, so we ended up arguing and stopped talking.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: And I think it was one of those situations where you have three siblings and I think it happens a lot in families with multiple siblings but it's like they each had their own individual lives within that house and their experiences were very different.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: And is that based on age or kind of personality?
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know, probably some of both, but Abby, at the time that all this started, was only nine years old and she was a very shy, timid, quiet girl.
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: So she was going to be the perfect victim for him, perfect one for him to pick.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I was the most quiet out of all my other siblings.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Which is common with someone, especially of that age, going through trauma.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: You just shut down and become that yes man kind of person.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Whatever the adult says is what's right and what I'll do for that acceptance or acknowledgement or whatever.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: In the intro I talked about the different forms of abuse that happened, and so can we talk a little bit about those experiences.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Do you remember when it started, and was it like a slow process?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: It started slow with the feet rubbed, and gradually, months later, it would move up the legs and then ended up being in my bed.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: It just got worse throughout the years, to the point where I had three kids with him.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I saw in some of the information that was sent to me from, I guess maybe Jamie's PR person, that this case, that your case, is claimed as the most heinous sexual abuse.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what the judge said, that he is for years that he was a judge.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: He had never seen the case this bad of a victim of two decades getting sexually assaulted over I can't even count like 300 times or whatnot.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I believe it was quoted as more than 1000 times by one of the attorneys.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: So your uncle who was doing this?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: He was married, and did she?
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: What role did she play?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: She played along.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: We've had three sons.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: She was involved as well.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: That's something that kind of evolved over time as well.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Like you had said earlier, David, it was the grooming began and slowly escalates.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: How about we add this to this now?
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: And it gets worse and worse.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Basically, it started out Abby tried to report the abuse to her at one point and said he was touching me inappropriately and she said I don't believe you and I don't want you to ever talk about this again.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: I don't want to hear anything else about it.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Abby did attempt to tell her at one point, but she was shut down and then she was a shy girl to begin with.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: So then you shut her down with the most trusted person that was at end of the road on the getting help from inside the house part of it.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: But Laura then, when Abby turns 15, becomes very actively involved in the sexual acts.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm ready to do this here or now, but I almost am more offended by Laura's actions because as a woman and as a mother, it's absolutely despicable.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unforgivable.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's inexcusable.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: It just it really.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: It gets me going, because I know there are pedophiles, there are men that do bad things, but what she did is a different level for me.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying she's worse than him because they're in the same bucket, but it's just deplorable.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And again, this is not by any means trying to justify anything, but it also makes me wonder too what kind of abuse have you suffered in order for this to be okay for you, for you to find a way to justify this, which falls on that whole like generational abuse thing?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Do you know of any of those generational abuses?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: They both went.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: They both had sexual abuse towards them, but that does not.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I have it and I won't do it to my kids, or I won't do it to anybody else's kids.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I know I went through it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It's traumatizing.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Why would I put somebody else through that?
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the beauty of speaking out and where we are in society right now with speaking out about mental health and these things you made the decision of it stops here and I praise you for that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have so many questions and I don't even know where to start what.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: So it was nine years old is when you were.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Was it adopted, where you adopted by your uncle?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, Is that the right terminology?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, so you were adopted.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: You all went to Hawaii and immediately is when this started.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I was adopted.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: And then you all were, pretty much shortly after, transferred to Hawaii because of the service that he was in.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, we did court online, like over the phone, like we talked to the judge over the phone.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: They signed paper work, like with the social worker there.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: They took everything into, they took it to Hawaii.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: You said that you had three children with your uncle.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: When did you have your first pregnancy and baby?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: My first pregnancy was when I was 16 and I had her when I turned 17.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I was in high school.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: My school they did it was a pregnancy school.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: So they took us from our house to a school and there was like nothing but pregnant women.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: So you don't get judged.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Were you told by your aunt and uncle like you just tell them you don't know who the father is Like how did that work?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: So that came up.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: They had told me that I was going to have, I was going to be their surrogate, I was going to carry the baby, and I told them, no, I didn't want to do it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: But they said I had no choice.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: So it ended up happening.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And then they would tell people that I snuck out the house and ended up pregnant with some random guy that I didn't even know.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: And that happened three times.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: So I was from the family, I was like the whole of the family because I snuck around Well, and I think it's important to like, abby was being obviously abused and raped during this entire time and this was going to happen to her.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Whether she was complicit and I don't mean complicit like consent, because there could never be that but however much she went along with it or fought or whatever she did fight at times and it was worse and it was more violent and it was worse physically for her.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: So it got to the point where she just resigned herself to knowing this is what I have to do, this is what's going to happen tonight, and whether I don't want to say go along, because I don't even like those words, but whether I choose not to actively, combatively fight, it doesn't matter, because this is happening to me.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: So do I want to have bruises and marks all over me and be beaten as well, or do I just want to be raped?
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: And that's terrible, but that was her reality.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, trying to figure out which is the less of two evils.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: If I just lay down and shut up, then it's not going to hurt as bad.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's literally what I had to do Stay there and shut up and close my eyes and picture me somewhere different, because I couldn't be in my body, in my mind, at that time.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Do you want to ask where the three children today?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: They are here with me.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: When I escaped, I brought my kids with me because if he did it to me, he could do it to my kids.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And I had two daughters beautiful daughters and a son, and I was not going to leave them to suffer the way I did.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: There was like two years between my two daughters and a couple of years between my middle child and my third one.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I was pregnant and I walked the stage while I was holding my second child.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Were you able to keep this a secret, like you were groomed and told to do.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: No, I actually told a friend of mine in Houston and I told her because I had to get it out.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: But when I did tell her I told her not to tell her mom.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But she didn't listen, which I'm glad she didn't.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: She didn't.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: But it just made things worse because the mom called CPS and my adopted parents knew that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: She called because they got like a phone call or an email or something and we ended up packing like that night and moving so they didn't come and see or anything.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So they get notified from CPS that, hey, someone's made a report.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they were able to.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: They had enough time to just pack up you and yeah, themselves and three plus children and flea.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, when you read the statistics on domestic assault, the scariest time for a woman is during those that fleeing time and CPS was involved with her multiple times.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: from various reports I think one was a teacher, one was the best friend's mom, one was her sister.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: This was not a one-time thing.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: So that wasn't the first one.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: No, and I think they were very trans.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: So they lived in a whole ton of places.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: So leaving in the night to us might sound crazy to them.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: It was just like oh, I guess we're leaving sooner than we planned to.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't like a house packing up like you might traditionally think of.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: It was like let's get our stuff in roll to the next place.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: And I don't know if CPS has changed.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I would certainly hope so, but I think schools have a duty to report if they find out about this.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Cps does investigate.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: But you have a child who is abused, manipulated, brainwashed in fear for her own safety and what could happen in the threats that have been made.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: And then she's supposed to have this stranger come visitor and she's supposed to make an outcry and to confess to all these terrible things her parents are doing.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Meanwhile she has to go home to guess who her parents.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I wanna add one more layer to your thought there.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: Just send me over the edge please.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: I guess it was always in Texas and I'll give you all credit, it's a really big state but it was always in Texas.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: Like, why can't the system get it together that, whether she was abused in San Antonio or Laredo or wherever else, like it's still in the same state.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: So why can't they get it together to follow this child through Texas?
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: It's not like she moved across the country and that I also find really frustrating.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: When we moved to Hawaii, he ended up getting caught with child pornography on his phone or on his computer and he was being investigated in Hawaii by I don't know like the army people, I don't know what they're caught.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: So he was being investigated about that.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So we spent two years there and one year he was.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: He told us that we had to come down to Houston and live with my aunt's sister for a while because he was gonna get transferred over here to the mainland.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: So it ended.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: We ended up finding out that he got kicked out of the army because he got caught with child pornography on his computer.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Now I'm pissed about something else, because they didn't even bother checking with the children inside the home.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: And her aunt was a childcare worker and she was a real good talker.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: She could make up a real good story and everybody knew the story.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: So it was just Abby didn't stand a chance even if these people came to talk to them, because they were gonna have such smooth stories to cover up all of their abuse and lies.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: With the different forms of traumas that were mentioned.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: The word neglect stood out to me when I was reading about you and I associated that with of course it goes along throughout all the trauma, but I mostly associated the neglect with your biological mother before you all were taken away, and I think that I think your house was considered a party house.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Is that right A crack?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: house.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't remember how it was worded.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: So as a kid it was a party house to the CPS reports.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: It was labeled as a noot and crack house.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Gotcha okay.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: So when I was reading and I was thinking of the word neglect, I was thinking of that mostly being on like the biological mother side.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: But when it came to the brainwashing were there?
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Are there things that you can look back on now and you're like, okay, this is what brainwashing this is the definition of this is what I experienced that you could tell us about.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, multiple occasions he would tell me that I would get in trouble and I would go and I would also go to jail and I'll lose my kids and something bad will happen to my kids, the way it happened to me.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Multiple times he told me that he, in the middle of the night, while we're sleeping, he'll get up and he will murder us all and that just I didn't want to die and I didn't want nothing to happen to my kids, because I wanted to get them out of the situation, because I didn't know if he would end up, since I was getting older, if he would do it to my daughters.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was just in my head that I knew that I was being brainwashed.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I couldn't see myself not listening to what they wanted me to do, because I didn't want my kids or myself to be hurt or separated.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was just going to add on, from an early age they both told her you're no one, you're nothing, you are worth nothing.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: So this child has been stripped of her own identity, basically, and her sense of self-confidence or self-worth.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: So it's like that, coupled with the threats, and I think, as the author of her book, I think one of the things I have a hard time with societally is like people going.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Why didn't she just leave?
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Why didn't she just tell someone?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: And if you're a nine year old and all this starts at the age of nine, you don't think the same way that someone just waking up at 34 thinks you had a different life experience, has shaped you and groomed you and abused you, and so that part of this, I think, is a huge piece that a lot of people who haven't been abused have a hard time understanding, but it's really an important piece of it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: She had no sense of self-worth.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: She did think she was nothing and no one, and it breaks my heart, but that's really where she was as a kid, not even into a womanhood.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So this day I still fight with it.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: There's times where I'm in my head and I'm driving and I'm like, wow, you did this.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but I recently just got my driver's license and I was proud of myself because in my head I was told you're not capable of doing anything.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And I didn't want to go and get it because I didn't think I was going to pass the test and I passed it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: So I'm like a proud woman, a proud mom, because I take my kids to their doctor's appointment, I change the oil and the cars.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff that I was told I wasn't able to do and I'm doing it now.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I love that and I hope this moment is the last time I ever hear you say I hate saying that I just got my driver's license.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I want from now on to hear you say I just got my driver's license.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Good for you.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Good for you.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: When you all were talking, you said something that reminded me of a line that I was reading about you, that it just punched me in my gut.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: So it's the line.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: It's talking about the different forms of abuse, and then it says and the stripping away of me as a little girl, bit by bit, until there was nothing left.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: There's nothing more heartbreaking than that.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: And what I tried to remind people, not just on my show but even through conversation, is we're all, as in society, groomed to victim blame and we do it without even knowing that we're doing it.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: You were 9, 12, 15, 16 years old with one, two, three.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Where the hell you want to go?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Not to mention you've already been neglected.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: We are all victims of our environments and we're all as, only as good as our leaders.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: And when our leaders are abusive, that's all we know, and I'm so sorry.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: And I wish that word was bigger and more powerful.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: You've used the word escape.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I would love to know what that word means to you and how that happened.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: That word means to me.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: It's hard to explain, because escape to me is just getting out of prison, like one of these prisoners want to escape.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: So bad, and that was me.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I was a prisoner in my own house and I just wanted to get out of there.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: It all happened when one day I pissed him off and I just said enough's, enough, I didn't want to do what you want me to do anymore, I'm done.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: And he knew that me and my husband were talking.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to have a boyfriend, no friends.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: So they figured out that I was talking to somebody and that's why I was becoming what's the word?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: A rebel, that I didn't want to participate with anything anymore.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So I pissed him off one day, so bad to the point where he text messaged me and called me over 200 times in one day.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: So I said enough's enough, I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna escape.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: So when they were at work, I ended up calling my husband and I told him to come and pick me up.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: He was already at work, so he told his mom hey, I need you to go pick her up, she needs a ride to somewhere safe.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So she ended up coming to get me.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I got the kids.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I got what I could carry in a backpack for me and my kids and we left.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I escaped, and that has been the best decision I've ever made in my life.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I'm sure just walking out the door with the backpack and three kids wasn't the end of him trying to still have that power over you, right?
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: He ended up.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: He ended up trying to suicide.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I got a phone call from my brothers stating that he locked himself in the house and he took all kinds of medicines and he was trying to suicide.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: And I was like I don't care he, I don't care, he could go, I'm not going back, I'm not telling you where I'm at.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I said enough is enough, I don't care.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: And he tried so many times to come back into our lives and I just didn't.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't go back because I ran away once when I was in high school, I had just graduated, I had ran away and they ended up first-quaying me to come back and I did and it was just hell and I told myself if you ever escape again, you're not going back.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: And I, you know, I stuck to my gut and I was like I'm not gonna go back and I didn't.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: I want to praise you for that.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: You left once and you came back, but then you're like not happening again and you sucked that.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: So you're already in, not alone beating the odds.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I'm just, I'm so proud of you and I'm so glad that you're doing what you're doing.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Jamie, I would like to talk to you for a minute too.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Is there anything, as the author, as the outside looking and getting so deep involved in this, that you would like to maybe speak on One of the parts of her story that's a lighter, brighter part is her husband now.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: It was obviously not her husband then, but she meets this guy and it's a chance encounter.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: And then it's these secret meetups and parking lot meetups and it's this really beautiful, like sweeping love story, but it's all secret, right?
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Her parents that are abusing her don't know about it and she starts to come into her own and who she is as a woman and who she is as a person and what isn't is not okay for her.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: And I think it takes longer than he would have liked for her to get out.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: But thankfully he had the patience and to me, my favorite line for Rudy is just that he is a man among men and there's really no higher compliment that I feel like I could give.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: So that's many words for him, but I think it's remarkable what she's been through and it's, I think, so amazing and so inspiring for her to step forward in this way to share her story.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: And it gets lost when it's not us but it's.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: If I had to go on this podcast right now and tell people about my sex life, I'd probably go crawl under this desk and hide and never do it.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: But here Abby is and she's sharing all of this and it's just, the media loves to focus on murder and I think the odds on being murdered are like one in 179 or something like that, but the odds of you being raped are one in six.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: But this isn't pretty, but this is, and this isn't always what's being focused on, but it's so important and I think people really need to continue to speak out and to share their stories and I hope it inspires people who have been through something similar, or I hope our highest hope is that there's some little girl or boy somewhere who hears this and, as if she got out after all, that I can get out of this too, and we're here as a resource for people to, or words of encouragement or whatever they need.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: We're here for that.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: So, so honored to like be here talking to you and to just be a part of her story and her journey and it's it's a very bright light on my path as well, just a different one, because I'm obviously not the survivor, but I love being here with her one question that I get from parents is how do I explain this and when do I explain these kind of situations to my child?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I already told my two older ones, cuz my oldest will be 18.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: My middle child, she'll be 15.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: My youngest, he is 12 and I haven't told him.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: But I've told my older daughters just to, because I want them to be aware of their surroundings.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I told them this happened to me, and they don't.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: They were so little when I left.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: They don't even remember them because whereas they were growing up, I was big sister, I wasn't mom.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: So now it's like so it's another accomplishment, achievement that I'm proud of.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: But I had to tell them because I wanted them to be aware of their surroundings and to be aware of the people that are out there in the world, because I don't want nothing to happen to them.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And my youngest I really haven't thought about telling him only because when I escaped he was three years old, so he believes my husband is his dad, that's his dad.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to break his heart, but eventually I'm gonna have to tell him.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So I just we haven't talked about how we're gonna tell him yet and but in my book Rudy is his dad and there's no change in that yeah, rudy loves these kids with all his heart.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Right, he will kick somebody's ass for these kids if he had to, and I'm the same way with my two daughters that he had with his previous wife, so we're just a happy family.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I love that they're for their kids and I tell you what, with all the great things I've heard about Rudy, I'm about to make a teacher.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: This is a heart, rudy, and I don't even know who he is.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: I got hurt some great things.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say I need to start teaching classes on how to be a man, like just how to be a man can we have that.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Rudy, is that too much to ask, rudy?
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and it's funny you're saying that because his friends have told him that what he has done for me they would never.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: They would have never helped or couldn't have done what he did for me, bringing in three kids that weren't theirs and raising them.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: They're like you're a man, you could.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: I gave you props.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I love that, I love the happy.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I have a hard time saying ending I was gonna say beginning because this is something brand new, right, it's something that they've not had before, and maybe it's closing off just something just so horrific.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that your kids have you.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that Rudy has you.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you have Rudy and his kids have you.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Like, I'm so glad, I'm so happy about all that and I'm so happy that Jamie got brought into it, because you're so great with words, you're so talented, you're you.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Just with the research and the reading that I've done with you, I like, I'm like okay, I want her to make about me now like my people will call your people and I don't have people, so I will call your people, but no, like I, I would have thought you were with her beginning to end, that, that you were related to her in some way, like you knew how to put yourself in her shoes, you from a victim.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: One thing that is so important to me two things, I guess, that are so important to me is to be seen and to be heard.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Here in this story, you listened and you heard and you gave her a safe place, which is obviously something she's not always had, and I cannot wait to read this book.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to read it either.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: I cannot wait.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I appreciate your kind words and, like I said, I'm just so happy to be here with Abby on this journey and she deserves all the good things that are coming her way from stepping forward as she is to step into her own power as a woman and as a person and as a survivor.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: As we're closing down, I always like to end on something positive, which, luckily, we already have been on something positive.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: We've talked a little bit about the book and the end at Rudy and his fan club.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: He didn't even know he was going to have a fan club.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: But so I have a fun question that's going to be for both of you to answer.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: There is going to be a documentary about you and your life, abigail and the book, and I would like to know who both of you would think would play that.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: You would want to play you in that movie.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Who would you picture playing you in that movie?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I don't know, I don't know.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: That's a hard one.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: That is really, because I don't answer.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: For both, I'm ready.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: You got, I'm ready.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Connie Britton for you, jamie, maybe it's the hair, I don't know, but she's got that strong woman empowerment.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I love Connie Britton.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: You know who she is right.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: OK, I'm not singing country songs, but yeah we'll work on that and but I can see like a Jennifer Lopez playing you, abigail, because again it's that strong woman, that empowering woman.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I can see that.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: That's funny, you said that in your case, we would have to have the child character and then the young adult character, and then, of course, jennifer Lopez would be you now.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: So, and then Zac Efron is going to be me.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: And then who would play Rudy?
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: It would be Rudy.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Let's see that's a tough one.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: That's a tough one.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I have really enjoyed this and I again, I can't wait to read the book.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to have you all back.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I would like to take a minute to make sure we hit the book, hit anything that you could promote any place, any social medias or anything where people can follow you and learn more about you and find your books that even are not because that the one about your cousin.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Where can we find you all and help celebrate and promote and love you?
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so Abby's book is called I am Abigail.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: It'll be available at Amazon and other online retailers on September 5th.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Can't tell you the name of the show that we're doing, but it is in the documentary lane and I think it will be very well done and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what they do with it.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: I'm also looking forward to being with Abby and Rudy in New York City, so that's just an added bonus and people can find the book.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: We have a page on Facebook under I am Abigail book If they'd like to follow us and see the press we're doing or anything we're promoting.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: And I guess I'll give a shout out to my first book.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: It was I am Jessica is the name of that book, which was to tell my cousin's story.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: So honored that anyone buys my books and reads them, and I love what I do and just hope to add some more light to the world with my words.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm buying, I'm Jessica tonight Hell yes, david, I'm into it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: All right, abby, how do you feel about closing up on your first part?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: How do you feel?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: about closing up on your first podcast.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling awesome.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I was nervous at first, but now it's like I made another friend that I could talk to and call, just chit chat with, and I'm excited to do more and help anybody that's willing to hear.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: You're so inspiring, You're so great.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with you both and thank you.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: And that wraps up another powerful episode of surviving abuse.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: I want to extend my deepest gratitude to our incredible guests for sharing their transformative journey with us today.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Your bravery is an inspiration to us all.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Before we go, I want to remind you to stay connected with us on our social media platforms.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok, where we will continue the conversation, share resources and provide support for survivors like you.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Remember you're not alone.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: To all of our listeners, thank you for joining us again.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Your resilience and willingness to heal is what makes this community strong.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: As we embark on this journey together, let's remember that there is life after trauma.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: We can rise above it and create a future filled with hope and joy.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Join us next week as we dive into the healing process and share more incredible stories of triumph and resilience.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Until then, take care of yourself and remember you deserve love, you deserve happiness and, above all, you deserve an abundance of healing.