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Your Revenue Problem Isn't a Leads Problem · Business Roundtable

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: David Carr, founder of Steward Your Business, where we help
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: leaders build healthier businesses through stronger communication, leadership alignment, and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: intentional organizational growth. And today's conversation is going to be
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: one that maybe challenges you how about how you think
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: about growth, because oftentimes when revenue slows down, most companies
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: immediately assume it's hey, we got to get more leads,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: we got to work on our marketing, more activity, more
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  Speaker 1: sales pressure. I see this in teams, and it doesn't
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: always solve the problem. In fact, maybe that even isn't
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: The issue isn't activity, But it's really more about alignment.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And that's where I'm excited to have my brand new
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: guests to the podcast. Alan Smoco, founder of Foresight Performance
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and creator of this revenue alignment model that I think
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  Speaker 1: we're excited to unpack with you all to day. Ellen
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: has worked with founder led businesses and and really I
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  Speaker 1: like the term that Ellen, I don't know if you
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  Speaker 1: coined this, Ellen, but revenue friction. We're going to break
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: this down about the miss misalignments that you may be
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  Speaker 1: finding in your company and all of that with it.
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  Speaker 1: So Ellen, I'm just excited to have you here on
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  Speaker 1: the podcast to share your insights and background. You You've
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: just wowed me in your in our pre podcast calls,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: and I'm so happy to have you here.
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  Speaker 2: I'm delighted to be here, and I really am looking
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  Speaker 2: forward to helping your audience lead better.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing I've learned, Ellen, and I
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  Speaker 1: why I love having guests like you on the podcast
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  Speaker 1: is that sometimes we're just we don't have the awareness
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: or the understanding, and it's it's for various reasons. And
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  Speaker 1: to have somebody like yourself come in and diagnosed. I
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: deal with people, but you're looking at the revenue of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the of the company and sometimes you know, you think
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  Speaker 1: I should figure this out. I should just know this.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: For there's various reasons why you don't, and and and
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and why having somebody like yourself come in and really
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  Speaker 1: stop help businesses stop being you know, reactive, but really
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: start building systems and scale with intention. And it's okay.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the first thing is understanding of
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  Speaker 1: a problem and then figuring out how to get help.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that one of the problems we see
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  Speaker 1: most businesses at some point have revenue U car revenue friction,
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  Speaker 1: they're not getting the revenue in that they once had,
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  Speaker 1: or a breakdown. So can you just break that I mean, Littal,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I want you to break that down. But what do
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  Speaker 1: you mean when you say revenue friction? And and and
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  Speaker 1: what is that pointing to in the organization the company?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, when I'm talking about revenue friction, it's anything that
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  Speaker 2: slows or stalls the growth revenue growth of the company.
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  Speaker 2: It could be something internally, or it can be something externally.
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  Speaker 2: And my focus is of course on the market peace,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: but it could also exist at the intersection of your
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: team and the market.
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  Speaker 1: So anything that's going to cause you to lose steam.
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  Speaker 1: The way it shows up is you're chugging along.
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  Speaker 2: You've got this nice growth curve that you're looking at,
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  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden you hit a plateau or
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: worse yet, you're looking at peaks and.
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  Speaker 1: Valleys or revenue. And a lot of people have.
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  Speaker 2: Come to believe that peaks and valleys is natural, normal
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  Speaker 2: and should be expected. It's none of those things.
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  Speaker 1: Mmmm, well, how do you how do you founders or
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: business leaders, owners, how do they misdiagnose this problem. Just
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: to your point. Okay, well, this is just be how
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  Speaker 1: they're they're they're misdiagnosing it, they're not seeing it. How
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  Speaker 1: have you seen that show up, Allen.
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  Speaker 3: I've seen them assume that when revenue declines plateaus, their
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: first instinct is that they don't have enough leads, so
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  Speaker 3: they'll look at their pipeline.
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  Speaker 1: They may see a healthy pipeline.
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  Speaker 2: Then the next step is they're not closing well enough,
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  Speaker 2: and they'll look at their sales team. And if the
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  Speaker 2: sales team looks like they're good and the pipeline looks
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  Speaker 2: like it's good, then the very next thing they turn
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  Speaker 2: to is we need a new website, we need to
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  Speaker 2: up the budget on pay per click, you know things
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  Speaker 2: that are band aids. It's their first instinct is to
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  Speaker 2: do yes something, not just diagnos And when I come
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  Speaker 2: in and work with folks, just as when you work
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  Speaker 2: with them.
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  Speaker 1: It's not one diagnosing yes. That's so important. I'm so
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  Speaker 1: glad you said that. We've had a number of different
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  Speaker 1: folks on the podcast. They're AI consultants or specialists, and
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  Speaker 1: one of the things they tell me, Allen, it's your
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  Speaker 1: point is like, we're not going to bring in any
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  Speaker 1: AI tool or anything into your organization until we diagnose
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  Speaker 1: where you're at, what problem you're trying to solve. Where
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  Speaker 1: are you're trying to go here? But why is it?
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  Speaker 1: The business owners and leave sometimes are just going that
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  Speaker 1: they're just going too fast right, and they're like, you're
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  Speaker 1: with what is that tenancy there? I've noticed that some of.
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  Speaker 2: It is panic. M Okay. You know when you're when
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  Speaker 2: you're experiencing steady growth and you don't understand how markets
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  Speaker 2: could shift out from under you because of your growth. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes the market outgrows you, but sometimes you outgrow the market.
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  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
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  Speaker 2: And when you you experience your your sailing along and
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  Speaker 2: things are great and then all of a sudden, you know,
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  Speaker 2: you sort of turn your attention away. It really doesn't
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  Speaker 2: happen as quickly as people think it.
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  Speaker 1: Happens mm hmmm hmm.
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  Speaker 2: It starts to show up slowly. There are cracks between
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  Speaker 2: things they'll see. For example, companies may start to get
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  Speaker 2: more pushback on pricing. Okay, they may get more pushback
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  Speaker 2: on the offering that is being presented. No, that's not
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  Speaker 2: quite right for us. Or they may get pushed back
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  Speaker 2: even on the size of the company. You're you know,
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  Speaker 2: we've grown, You're no longer big enough to services.
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  Speaker 1: That may or may not be true, right.
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  Speaker 2: But the first signs are super subtle, and it may
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  Speaker 2: be one or two clients that are larger that leave,
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  Speaker 2: or it might be that, you know, you have a
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  Speaker 2: sudden plateau due to could.
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  Speaker 1: Even be an economics thing, right, right, So they're not
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  Speaker 1: tuned into the subtle things M because.
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  Speaker 2: They're busy, Yes, they're flipping hats. They're busy, and something
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  Speaker 2: changes and they see that something's changed, and the first
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  Speaker 2: reaction is to say to the sales team, we need
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  Speaker 2: to improve our numbers M, which then puts the sales
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  Speaker 2: team into putting their back into it and really, you know,
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  Speaker 2: giving it a good raw.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then when that's not good enough, the sales
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  Speaker 2: team starts to go, well, we're doing everything we can.
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  Speaker 1: It's marketing's problem, right, Okay, So.
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  Speaker 2: Now you're distracted from diagnosing the issue because you initially
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: thought it was your sales team, so you may a
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  Speaker 2: diagnosis on your own without realizing it. And then the
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  Speaker 2: sales team said, not us, it's marketing. So now you're
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  Speaker 2: stuck in and a non objective diagnostics cycle. Okay, you're
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: going back and forth and nothing's objective and nothing's based
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  Speaker 2: and grounded in the market data. Let me give you
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  Speaker 2: a quick example. If I meant I had a client
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  Speaker 2: who was losing sales and they got a lot of
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: pushback on the pricing okay. And it was weird because
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  Speaker 2: they didn't think that they should be getting pushback on
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  Speaker 2: the pricing. They had their pricing set very reasonably okay,
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  Speaker 2: and they thought, well, it's not where we're at, it's
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: what their budget is. Maybe they didn't get dive in.
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  Speaker 2: The client actually meant, based on your pricing, we don't
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  Speaker 2: think you're doing all the things we need you to do.
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  Speaker 2: Therefore you may not be the right size company for
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: us anymore. They were looking for a higher price.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I.
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  Speaker 2: Mean, and this is like, this is like a really
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  Speaker 2: bad problem to have to have me come in and say,
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  Speaker 2: guess what, guys, we'd have to increase our.
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  Speaker 1: Price, right right, But this is exactly.
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  Speaker 2: What had happened. And that's because when they first started
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  Speaker 2: working with the the base clients the anchor clients, the
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  Speaker 2: anchor clients were smaller and didn't understand all of the
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  Speaker 2: nuances that might be going into the work now. In fairness,
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  Speaker 2: my client was.
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  Speaker 1: Doing all that work. Yep. They just want being adequately compensated.
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  Speaker 2: So now the client gets bigger, they're attracting other consultants
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  Speaker 2: who come in and say, we can do it better
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  Speaker 2: for you. Here's the list of things we're going to do.
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  Speaker 2: And the client company is looking at the list and saying,
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if this company then i'm working with,
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  Speaker 2: does any of this, And if all this rolls up
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  Speaker 2: to this big price tag, then I don't think they're
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  Speaker 2: doing all of this.
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  Speaker 1: So what came across was not.
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  Speaker 2: Your incompetent or I'm questioning your competence, right. What came
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  Speaker 2: across is we have an issue with your pricing.
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  Speaker 1: Mm hm.
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  Speaker 2: Nobody asked what's that issue?
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  Speaker 1: Wow? Wow, Well, and what you were saying earlier about
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  Speaker 1: blaming each other, that's one thing I often see. It's
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  Speaker 1: through your business as this internal communication and leadership friction,
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  Speaker 1: then it becomes operational friction, and then, like you said,
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  Speaker 1: like this eventually revenue friction. So you know, I think
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  Speaker 1: many founders mistake movement, yes for progress. We're moving, we're doing,
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  Speaker 1: but we're.
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  Speaker 2: Not actually we've changed something, We've changed something, so we
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  Speaker 2: should be good.
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  Speaker 1: Right? What right? So what I appreciate about the way
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  Speaker 1: you approach things and the framework is that really connects
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  Speaker 1: directly to organizational health leadership alignment and what's a huge
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  Speaker 1: part of what we do do And so talk more
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  Speaker 1: about Okay, we've designated this problem, you've diagnosed this, but
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  Speaker 1: how do we get that alignment that like that revenue alignment,
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  Speaker 1: so now we can get this fixed. So we're not
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  Speaker 1: talking bickering at each other or going a misunderstandings. Can
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: you break that down for like how you get them
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  Speaker 1: in the line. I think of it like a chiropractor.
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  Speaker 1: I'm out of whack. I need to get put back
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  Speaker 1: into order here. And and I loved how when you
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  Speaker 1: talk to me about this, it just jumped out at
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  Speaker 1: me and it's like, oh man, I it's it's not complex,
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  Speaker 1: but it's like boom, just having somebody walk you through,
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  Speaker 1: walk you through this now.
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  Speaker 2: One of the first things I do, David, and why
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  Speaker 2: I'm glad to have an alliance with you, is one
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  Speaker 2: of the first things I do when I hear marketing
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  Speaker 2: and sales pointing at each other and saying not to us,
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  Speaker 2: it's them.
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  Speaker 1: Kay.
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  Speaker 2: The first question I ask of the leaders is how
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  Speaker 2: often does this happen that they're pointing at each other?
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  Speaker 1: And what happens to.
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  Speaker 2: Them if they don't hit their numbers? So I'm looking
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to see is there a reason they might be pointing
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  Speaker 2: at each other to deflect blame or fault finding. If
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  Speaker 2: that's not my job, right, let's see it. So if
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  Speaker 2: I uncover something that is a leadership skill, like you're
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  Speaker 2: not leading the way your team needs to be led,
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to immediately.
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  Speaker 1: Bring in someone like you, David, to look.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: At the leadership because then I can turn my attention
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  Speaker 2: to validating the pieces of the market. So does your
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: ideal client profile definition still match who really wants to
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  Speaker 2: be working with you? Have you changed the client profile?
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  Speaker 2: Did you ever validate? A lot of companies when they
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: start out don't validate their ICP against market data, and
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  Speaker 2: they get some anchor clients and that's great, but they
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: get anchor clients for reasons other than what's.
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  Speaker 1: Defined in the ICP.
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  Speaker 2: MM Yeah, and a lot of times this will show up.
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  Speaker 2: As you know, I get to a certain level of
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  Speaker 2: growth and then boom, I'm at a plateau and nothing
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  Speaker 2: I do gets me through it M So the first
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  Speaker 2: thing I look at is you know who is in
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  Speaker 2: the market. Has it shifted? Has your competitive landscape changed?
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  Speaker 2: Is there somebody new on the block who's got this
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  Speaker 2: great pitch that AI.
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  Speaker 1: Wrote for them.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, but they've got this great pitch and everything
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  Speaker 2: seems so wonderful, and you're being displaced by a competitor
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  Speaker 2: you didn't even know exists, or are you displacing yourself
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  Speaker 2: because the competitors.
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  Speaker 1: Have advanced their pricing faster than you.
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  Speaker 2: Or your competitors have advanced their product development, their offerings,
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  Speaker 2: They've enriched them, they added value to their offerings at
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  Speaker 2: every single level, and you've just been assuming that what
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: you offered.
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  Speaker 1: Was good enough.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, these are all places that I'm looking, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm looking at what the company has relative to the market.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Once I look in that.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Down, then we go to work where David comes back
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  Speaker 2: into the picture. Even if you were not needed initially,
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  Speaker 2: because while I'm aligning the company's revenue generation system, which
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: is what I create, against the market, I need the
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  Speaker 2: leadership to be aligning the people to the new system,
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  Speaker 2: or you get salesman for example. One thing that I
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: try to put an end to is the need to
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  Speaker 2: discount to close a sale?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I can work on the pricing so that you don't
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: need to do that. Okay, And maybe your pricing wasn't
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  Speaker 2: too high to begin with.
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  Speaker 1: It could have just been you weren't talking to the
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  Speaker 1: right people.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but if I align you to the market and
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  Speaker 2: your sales team is stuck in the habit of discounting
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  Speaker 2: to close, you're still not going to achieve the revenue
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  Speaker 2: you're capable of. And again, not my job job, that's
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: David's job. That's the job for David to help the
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  Speaker 2: leaders understand. Now, what we've discovered about your market is
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: you know that it's changed a little bit, so your
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: people need to make a change. I'm going to give
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: you a stilly example. I have an accounting firm that's
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  Speaker 2: a client of my long standing client. When we started
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: working together, I felt compelled to wear a business suit
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  Speaker 2: to their office because everyone in the office was in
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: a business suit and the men looked so uncomfortable with
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: those ties on, but their clients expected them. Fast forward
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to post COVID and they're still showing up at the
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: client sites in suits, professional attire and increasingly seeing the
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: clients are less and less formal than their attire, and
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: they started losing clients because the clients thought, my prices
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: are probably going to go up because these guys are
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: still wearing these expensive suits.
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  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm.
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  Speaker 2: So and it's not even a conscious thing, yeah, subconscious thing.
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  Speaker 2: So basically I went back after actually speaking to some
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: of the clients and they said, you know, we just
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: wish they weren't so uptight.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: And I said, what do you mean by that?
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: What do you mean you don't you know, you don't
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  Speaker 2: want your finance advisors to be upsid about your finance, right?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: He said, no, no, no.
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  Speaker 1: No, we wish they'd be a little more relaxed.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Show up in you know, business casual, take your tie off,
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  Speaker 2: let's get.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Down to feel relatable. Yeah, feel more relatable to them
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  Speaker 1: right to the client. They've they've pivoted or they've shifted
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: in the way that they're showing up. So you got
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to meet them where they're at right exactly.
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  Speaker 2: So now I have to turn to the leaders and
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: tell them, hey, you guys got to lose the suits.
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  Speaker 2: And trust me, I was not the one that wanted
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: to work with the leadership. I worked with the managing partner.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I explained what I had seen and then said, you
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: know what, it's on you. Now, m's on you to
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: get them to loose the tie, lose the jacket at
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: times being shirt sleeves, just relax a little bit, and
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: sure enough, their retention rate, their client retention rate settled
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: back in m HM, and they reconnected with some of
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the clients that they had lost before I came on board,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: who signed back up and paced. They lost the suits
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: and raised their prices.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. That's amazing, Ellen, So
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: you diagnosed the issue. You came in there and said, hey,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: make this adjustment, and boom, there you go.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: But again, when it came time for the leaders to
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: explain to their people, and this was a silly example
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: because the people were really happy to lose the.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Suits, they're like, all right, thank you, Ellen, all right,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: But I mean.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: If you were, you know, it doesn't matter how easy
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: or how difficult it is if there's any friction between
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  Speaker 2: the leadership and the team. There's friction in all types
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  Speaker 2: of business. So where the new friction. Yes, it's a
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: termite coined because it's the friction the heat that actually
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: slows you down, doesn't you up right?
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  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: If it's friction between the leadership and the team, not my.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Job, yeah right, not my job. Yeah right? Well, so
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: tell me so when we you know, one of the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: things you I liked how this is on your website
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: as well. But in this you broke down a number
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: of core areas of that we should be looking at
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: in the in the company. So you know, maybe this
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: would be maybe folks that will know this, but I
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: think it's still worthwhile to break it down, Ellen, of
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: like why slow down and like evaluate these different areas
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: so that way you can diagnose to your point that's
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: where you're coming in. But like talk about what companies
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: should when you work with companies, what are those what
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: are those areas that you're looking at, Ellen to get
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that alignment? So why use a revenue alignment framework? Okay?
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And the way the framework functions it looks at the
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: interplay between your positioning in the market, which also involves
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: defining your ideal client profile okay, and how that positioning
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: an ICP feeds into your offerings and one with your offerings.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: I make sure that you know a lot of people
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: don't know how to structure offerings because it's.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Not their thing. Yep, yep. Yeah. The way I look
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: at offerings is to productize.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: You. Now, the difference between productization in tiered or bundled services,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: if you're not really sitting in my chair, they seem
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: like the same thing.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: They're not.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Here's how to know the difference. When you're dealing with
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: tiers or bundles of services, you have a base like
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: a floor service. This is the service in every package
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you roll out.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: No difference.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: So using the accounting from okay, their base package was
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: that they did bookkeeping. Everything had bookkeeping in it.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: The next package put together bookkeeping with some accounting services.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: The next package put the bookkeeping and accounting services together
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: with financial advisory service.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: But the base value was still predicated on bookkeeping, okay,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: instead of the focus remaining on bookkeeping. What we did
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: to productize them is we change the value chain. So
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: now at step one, yes, one hundred percent of the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: value was coming from bookkeeping. At step two, your value
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: was coming from a combination of bookkeeping and the accounting services.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't just will do quarterly reviews of your
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: finances that was the tier. This was, We're going to
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: do reviews of your finances. We're going to make sure
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: that your books are reconciled properly. We're going to look
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: at the projections for next quarter and the following quarters
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: revenue to make sure we hit our annual goals.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: We are going to.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Give you a total financial picture. See how the value
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: of that is different.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: It's not just oh.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: And we stuck something else on, so we're going to incrementally.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Increase the cost. Yes, yes.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And then at the highest level it was the advisory,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: the controller and CFO services that were also They became
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the focus of the value. So the value sat with
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: that top level and pushed down to the work the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: others on the team were doing. So TEARS is kind
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: of like bottom up productization is kind of like the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: highest value down.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's an interesting would you say. I'm just
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: for our listeners and folks that are even knew this.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I've heard other models say in that this is like
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: do it yourself model versus a kind of a done
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: for you model. Ellen, Like, how would you correlate that?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: How is that similar? I mean, I'm just trying to
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: understand understand. It is like when you talk about some
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: services are like, I'll just give you the baseline you
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: kind of do it yourself or done with you or
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: done for you. That's one way I've heard of there.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: So let me let me tell you why that would be.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: What would make that the value based productization versus just
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: setting something on the basis of price, because a lot.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Of folks say, well, if you do it yourself, I'll
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: reduce the price. No, you're still not centering the offer
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: on the value. Do it yourself is it's being done
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: by someone who probably doesn't do this as a primary
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: responsibility there may not have the training to wreck recognize
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: those small cracks that will open up. Done for you
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: is we're going to bring the value of an experienced team. Okay,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: But then done for you can have other levels of
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: product so that, for example, in the world of marketing,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I have agencies that work with me and they do
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: have done do it yourself and done for you, And
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: within the do it yourself you can add on the tiers. Okay,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: but also in the done for you you can.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Add on additional services. But here's the trick.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: In the done for you, the guy who's doing your
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: pay per click advertising management is not the same guy
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: that's doing your website build, that's a website specialist. So
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: we're bringing specialist value every level of additional service, so
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: it's not just that base value that we stick some
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: things onto.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally makes sense. Ellen, coming from an environmental
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: consulting background myself is you're coming. Well, just to what
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: you're saying is we would come in and a client
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: would come to us and say, hey, I need to
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: develop this property. Okay, great, Well that involves a biological
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: resources survey, that involves a cultural resources survey that it
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: calls project management GIS. So you're to your point, these
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: are all different specialists that we're putting on, which's not
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: just tiered, it is actual different service sites. And that's
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: where I feel like, Ellen, your expertise comes in is like, well,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: what are the where's the market and what are the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: different services that we can bring to the market. And
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: to your point, I had a small company. I was
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: with a small company about one hundred and twenty people,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and I would ask my team regularly, do you understand
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: all the services that we do? Well, we know our service,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: but we need to know are other ones and we
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: didn't know how to cross sell those so they were
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: almost highload, and I was think, like, wow, there's a
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: revenue friction right there. I was like, right, because I'm like,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: if I'm a biologist, let's use that as an example,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: and I'm I only do biologists. I'm like, but they're like, well,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: by the way, we have to deal with Native American tribe.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Why I am talking to my archaeologists and my team
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: said that they can coordinate with that. It's a missed
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: opportunity revenue friction. And then the cut client to your
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: point that you said, Earlin might go to another firm
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: that says, oh, well they do this service, and like,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: we do this service. Well, I didn't know that. I
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't even aware of it. Missed opportunity.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And there are certainly some times whe're all
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: run into a client that has, whether intentionally or not,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: actually productized their business. But here's where the difference for
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: them comes in. It's the next step in the framework,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: which is your pricing strategy. And pricing strategy isn't just
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: how much we charge, it's value based pricing, which is
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: how much we charge. In addition to when is it
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: okay to discount, when is it not okay? To discount, right, Okay,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: what happens if we have, for example, I have a
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: client that has an annual service contract. Okay, and if
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: you buy the service contract for one year, the prices
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: for argument's sake, let's say it's one hundred dollars if
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you buy it for two years. It's only one hundred
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: and ninety dollars if you buy it for three years.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So essentially there is a slight discount because there is
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: money coming in. But then there's also the added piece
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: of will we break up our payments?
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Will we break up that totally cost?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: How do we bill you? How do we invoice you?
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: If you give you multiple invoices? And by the way,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: you're paying by credit card, who's eating the credit card cost?
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Where is that price? The cost of your goods sold
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: has to be factored.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Into your pricing strategy. Yes, so you know, when.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I do a lot of people say, wait a minute,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I thought you were doing value based pricing.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: You're talking to me about my costs. I'm like, well, yeah,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: because I have to know how not how far not
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: to go down right right, Not that I'm going.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Down to the bottom, but if the lowest level of
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: service doesn't provide the value, and value is in the
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: eyes of the market, it's not in the eyes of
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the provider. So if I think something is worth a
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: million dollars but the market think it thinks it's worth
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: a buck ninety eight, I'm.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Going to have a tough time selling, right right, Okay,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: So what.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I what I do is I create that lowest level
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: offering so that a it covers your cost and gives
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: you a margin. Okay, some margin, so you're not at
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: a loss leader, which is what tiered pricing usually is,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: right loss. But the other thing is that I said
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: it so that the value is clear and the price
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: the actual dollars are low enough that the client sees
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: it as risk free, so I can take a chance
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: if I'm not really sure you can deliver, I can
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: take a chance because the cost is not going to
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: damage my ability to move forward if you can't deliver,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: and it gives you a shorter close time, so you know.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: So this is all what goes into that third bucket,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: which is the pricing. So I've taken the market filter
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: a fit through the offerings. Now I'm filtering the market
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: and the offerings through to your pricing. Then the last
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: piece is it has to be put together in a
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: nice package. I don't mean physical package. I mean a
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: story that goes to the market. Now, people will say,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: so you write my tagline, my slogan, you'll do this.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I could, but that's not really what I deliver. It's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: called the builder market Strategy, and it says, these are
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: the people we need to be talking to. These are
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: the words that you need to use with them. Beyond
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: these specific words and concepts, have that at it be creative.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: That's not my job.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I can couch my job by pointing at other people
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and saying it's David, or it's the marketing.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Team or so. Yeah.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: So that last piece is to make sure that all
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: of the data that I've gathered and all of the
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: structure that I've put into what is a revenue generation
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: machine m H gets reflected in how your market hears you.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: So important. Yeah, as you as you said, as I
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: can see how you're building this out, because I think
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: the pricing with one as you were talking about that
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: stood out to me too, because sometimes when we have
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I've seen this happen with clients and I love to
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: speak just a little bit more so maybe they initially
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: they've gone through this. Now they've got through and they've
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: gotten their offer and they have a pricing. And what
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I've seen is the market shifts like well you said
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: this earlier, but sometimes they chase the market down in
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: like or clients and like, well, like you said, we'll
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: discount it or we'll adjust it. And I think what
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you said earlier of we got to figure out the
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: base of like where we don't want to go to
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: break it even are losing money, right, And it's like
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: sometimes there's this company, it's like, well, but there's such
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: a big client, or we're hoping we're going to get
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: something else out of it. And again I'll talk a
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: little bit about that all because I think sometimes they
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: go too long. Yes, of that.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I see all the time. I see people saying I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: going to offer a free trial or I'm going to
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: offer a free whatever the service is. And if that
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: free thing takes an hour of time, okay, great, But
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: if it takes five, six, seven hours, you need to
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: be getting paid for that, okay. And a lot of people,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: for example, will put together free webinars right okay, And
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: the webinar may only be forty five minutes to an hour.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: How long did it take the presenter to put together
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: the webinar, to advertise the webinar, to get the work
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: out about the webinar, and to do the registrations and
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: all of the gyrations that need to go with it.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Right. A lot of people don't see that as granularly
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: as I do.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, and that is a source of revenue leak.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, revenue. That's a great point.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, because you're losing money on what essentially is a
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: marketing activity. And marketing is looked at the activities we
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: do for marketing or look, it's looked at as a
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: cost center. If you do it right, marketing should be
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: a revenue center.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Yes, should be a revenue center.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: So if you are treating it as a cost center,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: then you've got to you need to realign with what
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the market is saying now to the point of there's
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: a great company that we want to go after, or
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: maybe there's an a ajacent market. I work with accountants, okay,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: that are semi regulated industry, m.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Ge.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Can I also work my magic with lawyers? Well, okay,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: so I'm going to I'm new in the lawyers, you know,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: in the legal industry. So I'm going to discount my price. Well,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: wait till your accountant client finds one of your legal
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: clients and then turns around and says.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Hey, wait right, So there are.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Pricing strategies that people don't hear. They hear about cost plus,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: they hear this thing called value based pricing, But beyond that,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: there are actually methodologies. Cost plus is a methodology, but
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: there are other types of pricing strategy. One of them
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: is called penetration. Okay. That's where you want to go
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: deeply into a market and potentially displace competitors from people
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: that are that you want to serve. So maybe that
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: big fish client already has somebody that's doing what you're doing.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: In order to displace them, you may need to go
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: in at a slightly lower margin, but you should.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Not be going in at a loss, right, right. So
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: that's penetration pricing.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: That's that's what you do to get you in deeply,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and then sort of once you're in, you can fan
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: out and open up in that market or that segment
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: of the market. Yes, if you find a market that
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: is either underrepresented, underserved, or what we call a blue ocean,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: nobody's in it, got no competition now you have a
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: tough decision what do you want to do with the market,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Because within six months of finding a blue ocean, your
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: ocean won't be blue anymore. Others will have found your
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: market because you led.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Them to it. Yeah, they're like, oh, what's going on here.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: It's like a fishing spot. He guts a lot of fish,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Let's go there.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: You could use penetration pricing and just go in really
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: deep and then expand out and close out competitors from
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: coming in. Or Okay, you can use an approach like skimming,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: where you literally know you're only going in to take
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: as much profit as you can in as short a
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: period of time as you can. If you get beyond that,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: that's great, but you weren't planning it. Yeah, So you
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: go in with skimming and you charge the highest rate
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: because you can get it, and you don't care if
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: you're displaced from that market because you had that set
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: to generate a finite amount of income for your company.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, and if.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: You stay there longer, you stay there longer. And these
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: are the types of discussions I have with my larger clients.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Smaller clients don't tend to stray too far we're just
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: looking at adjacent markets, so they.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Don't need to get into this.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: But it's always good to know that, you know, a
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: pricing strategy isn't just hm, how much should we charge?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: When do we discount? When don't we?
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: It's are we using penetration pricing? Are we going to
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: hang out here? Are we gonna really roll up our sleeves,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: put on the boxing gloves and go toe to toe
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: with everybody else that challenges us.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: In this right right?
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: And there are certainly markets like, for example, the healthcare
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: space where for healthcare clients is extremely profitable, government contracting
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: extremely profitable. Guess what when you get in the elevator
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: on the way to the healthcare or the government sectors,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: you're standing like as.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Tight shoulder to shoulder with all of your competitors. Yep, exactly.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: You don't compete there, No, It means you've got to
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: have a strategy for how to do it and that
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: includes your pricing.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, And to your point, in my background of
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: twenty five plus years environmental consulting, sometimes my competitors would
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: actually be my collaborators too, depending on the opportunity that
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: we're looking at, right and who we're targeting because we
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: couldn't do it on our own. We didn't have the capacity,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: we'd have enough people, And quite honestly, there's a whole
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: bunch of things we don't have time to get into,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: whether it's small business set asides or local emphasis on
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: different things and the whole host of things in there,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: local presence, region, do you have people, boosets on the ground,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: all of these things. But I think what I'm hearing
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: lad and clear from you Ellen is like having somebody
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: like you come and unpack this with the company. Yes,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: slow down enough, get somebody that's an outside perspective in
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: coming in and diagnosing this so that you can go
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: through all those things. Because maybe your pricing is good,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: but you're your positioning is not right so that you're
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: not finding the right people or they're not qualified. But
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: if you could find them and get the get that
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: dialed in, they're like, boom, I would love to be
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: finding you and signing up and where have you been
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: all my life? Yeah, it's very offer. Like you said,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: maybe there was something off and they just self selected that,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Oh this isn't for me, and you adjust that and
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: boom boom, You've opened up a gateway for them, and
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: the tools that I use tap into actual market data.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: So, for example, I was able to tell a contractor
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that I was working with that he is at the
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: absolute top of the market in terms of his pricing
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: for one of the services that he offers, right, And
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: he said, yeah, I've been losing a lot lately because
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: right now there's a little more price sensitivity in market.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: And he's like, you know, I was thinking about this thing,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and my accountant was talking about price elasticity, and I'm like,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: time out, that's an accounting term. Let's get rid of it.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: But what ended up happening is.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: We went in and we added some of the data
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: about his certifications, his experience and expertise, and his methodology
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: and his materials that then had his clients coming back
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: to him and paying the higher price because he was
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: think of it this way. If I told you I
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: sell cars and you sell cars, we sound like we're.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Selling the same thing.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: But exactly Okay, he was selling the luxury vehicle, they
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: were selling the Hyundai, yes, right, But the market didn't
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: understand that because he was talking beyond the market's comprehension.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: So it left them to the price. So again, there's
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of places where I look for friction.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, full disclosure. I hate having arguments in
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: my personal life.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: You know why. I deal with a lot of friction
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: every day. I don't need more more more there, you know, yes, absolutely, yeah.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I love that you're coming in the place of helping
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: reduce that friction. You want to help companies succeed. That's
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: why I had you on the podcast. Ellen. I know
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: we're getting to the end of the podcast here, but
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're listening to this and you're like,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: oh my goodness, Ellen's hitting this, please connect. We're going
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: to put all in the show notes how you can
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: connect with Ellen. Were connected on LinkedIn, her website, UH
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: and resources, so we want you to reach out there
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: and also put comments here so that she can respond
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: back wherever you're finding us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcasts,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: whatever that is. And if you guys are like, oh
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: my goodness, this is so good, share share with your
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: colleagues as well, because they're going to benefit UH with
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: you know, your other team leaders of like man, we
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: need to we need to bring together Ellen an organization
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: and and and Ellen that be your superpowers, will come
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: together and work together and help with the leadership as well.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Let's do your business. But Ellen, as we're wrapping up
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: the conversation today, what would you you know, we covered
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: a lot, but what would you encourage Whether you're the
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: business owner or a leader, you're responsible for hey, growing
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and developing within the company, a service line, or whatever
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: the case might be in that, what would you encourage
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: them to do? Assess, look at themselves to say are
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: we looking at these thing effectively or maybe maybe I'm not?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: What would you do to and and then, you know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: encourage them to take action today?
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: I would I would encourage them to sit very quietly
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: on a day when like they're not being pulled in
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: seventy five different directions and ask themselves, do I know
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: for sure? Then I'm talking to the right people that
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I'm offering them the right products and services, the ones
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: that they want, the ones that they value, the ones
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I can make the best profit on. And again I'm
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: not a profit first person. But if it's a win
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: for them and a win for you, no harm, no found?
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Am I putting things out there? Am I discounting my
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: price when I shouldn't be does my sales team. Is
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: my sales team being encouraged to offer deals? I mean,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I hate when people say everybody loves a bargain. No,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: well yeah they do, but you shouldn't give it away. Okay,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: So literally just sit back and think about what it
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: is that you're doing. Are you certain you're talking to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the right people, giving them the right solutions to their
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: pain points, charging them the right amount, giving them an
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: opportunity to try out what your solution might look like
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: at a basically risk free level without losing money. Okay,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: and if you're not sure, you know, hit me up
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: for a complimentary consultation. I actually am launching within a week,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: which will be up there. It is a revenue diagnostic
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: that looks at each of the four pillars that I
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: talked about today. It's a self assessment. You go through
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: on a scale of one to five, from strongly disagree
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: at one to strongly agree at five, and it will
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: tell you not only.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Whether or not you likely have friction in.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Your business, it'll also tell you by pillar whether that's
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: the pillar where your friction.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, Elan out there, we'll have that. We'll put
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: that in our show notes.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: And just as an invitation to your clients, your clients,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: your audience that aren't watching this if this was helpful,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: and the only comment that you care to leave is hey,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: thanks so much. You help me figure out what was wrong.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be applauding that comment.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, me too, Me too. Ellen. It's a real pleasure
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: to have you here, Ellen on the podcast. Thank you
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: for sharing your resources, your insights. I hope everybody listening
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: really got something out of this today. If you did,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: please of course like and subscribe and follow along on
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: all of those good things. We truly appreciate it because
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: we really want to help you, the business owner, the leader,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: be more effective, leading you yourself, leading organizations, and being
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: more effective in the world and the time that we
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: have here. So Ellen, thank you.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: So much, and thank you David for having me on.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: My pleasure, My pleasure. Until next time, everybody, be well,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: take good care, and we'll see you Sam. Thanks everybody
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: for listening.