Latest / Conservation Stories / Keeping Farmers on the Land: Mentorship, Grazing, and the Future of Texas Agriculture

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Keeping Farmers on the Land: Mentorship, Grazing, and the Future of Texas Agriculture · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:09
  Speaker B: Welcome back again to another episode of Conservation Stories brought to you by the Sand Hill Area Research Association. Every week we bring all kinds of interesting folks to your attention. And I'm so happy today that we have Everett Outlaw with us and who has, I think, an amazing name. Outlaw is a great name. And I'm sure everyone asks you, and I know that you are not related to Joe Outlaw, but you would think you would be or you are related to Joe.
• 0:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's my cousin. Oh, yeah. Dr. Joe Outlaw from a M. Yes.
• 0:41
  Speaker B: Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. I can believe this is like my memory is really bad.
• 0:46
  Speaker A: Well, I don't expect you to know that.
• 0:49
  Speaker B: So I think, I thought, I thought I asked you before, but I always think of you. I just like. I think that is like the most amazing last name. And I do have to wonder if you know how you got the last name Outlaw.
• 1:00
  Speaker A: Oh, gosh, I don't know. There's.
• 1:02
  Speaker B: There's got to be stories.
• 1:04
  Speaker A: Yeah. I did all genealogy back in the day we came over from England. We had an E at the end about. Well, after the W, there was an E when they came over and kind of migrated through the states and whatnot. But you hear different stories out of it.
• 1:22
  Speaker B: I know. You never know, right? Well, people always like, I can't believe you're an ad culture. Name's Tillery. And I was like, yes. My husband's name is Doug. Doug. Until Doug.
• 1:32
  Speaker A: Oh my gosh. Don't know. Spot on.
• 1:36
  Speaker B: It's kind of weird.
• 1:38
  Speaker A: I love it.
• 1:40
  Speaker B: So, ever give us a little bit about. About you? Tell us about your background.
• 1:45
  Speaker A: Okay. Well, my name is Everett Outlo. Like you said. I work for American Farmland Trust. I manage a program called the Texas Grand Grazing Network, which we'll talk about here in a little bit. I'll tell you a little bit about me and my background. From Texas. Born bred, south Texas area. So just southwest San Antonio, Medina County. Grew up farming, ranching family. My dad was primarily a farmer. You know, tiller you and I had talked in the past. He is. He was a peanut farmer. That's his big thing. So obviously there's a little connection to what. Yeah, a lot of the folks out there in your part of the woods are doing.
• 2:21
  Speaker B: We grew plenty of goober peas.
• 2:23
  Speaker A: Exactly. So he grew a little of everything. Mainly peanuts because that's the soil down here that it's good for. It's everything to go grow his corn. But he never got to farm any places that had a lot of corn on it or I Mean the soil that could grow corn rather grew, raised a few cows. My uncles were mostly cowboys. My grandfather was a cowboy. I think my, my dad got stuck on a tractor when he was a kid. Grandfather learned that he, he was content to run the plow all day long. And he got the, the farming gene in the family. Yeah. Grew up around that. And of course, you know, I think I liked a lot of young folks. I, I didn't, I didn't want anything to do with it. I would rather be doing other things with my time. Yeah. Went off to college and started at one degree. I wasn't doing so great and I changed majors and got into an agricultural major at Texas A M Agricultural Systems Management. And because that's what I knew and got through college and I ended up joining the military. Went to the Air Force, did that for 20 years. Towards the end of my career, I decided, well, I was, I was stationed in San Antonio near home. I was helping my dad on, on the weekends. And then all of a sudden I took a liking to it. I started getting involved. That might have been a problem, might have been a mistake. I don't know. I came out, was helping him with the, the last place he was leasing and he was still messing around with peanuts even though he was really advanced in age. So was his equipment. I, I got us moved over to hay production. So we did hay for a few years. I took over the lease, did that for a few years until the landowners decided to sell the place, which was fine because I was, it was. I could have been doing better, but I, I have a small place of my own now. Run mostly goats, a few, few steers. And after my side job, I guess you should, you could say. After I got out of the military, I worked with a new and beginning farmer rancher program for a few years helping. Oh, really?
• 4:36
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:37
  Speaker A: That was through Texas A M as well. That's fun. I actually really enjoyed that.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: That was a good program,
• 4:46
  Speaker A: seeing people interested in getting into agriculture but not knowing where to start. And I'm very. To folks like that. I don't want anyone to feel bad about asking a question, thinking they're going to feel dumb or something like that.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: Right. Is that program still around?
• 4:59
  Speaker A: It is. It's called Battleground. Yeah. And it, it's still going on. I did that for a few years and then I found this job, American Farmland Trust, to stand up this Texas Grazing Network program and put my name in the hat and. And here I am. So. Yeah.
• 5:20
  Speaker B: That's awesome. That's great. That's great.
• 5:22
  Speaker A: So the full story. Two minutes.
• 5:25
  Speaker B: Yeah. That's. That's really amazing. I didn't realize that you were an Air Force vet.
• 5:33
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 5:34
  Speaker B: Well, thank you. Well, thank you for your giving 20 years of your life to that.
• 5:39
  Speaker A: Well, I. You know, I never want people to feel like they need to say thanks. It was.
• 5:43
  Speaker B: I know all of y' all think that, but just get over it. That's what y' all say.
• 5:49
  Speaker A: I appreciate it, but, you know, there's a lot of folks that are out there doing hard work between. Between first responders and teachers, and there's
• 5:57
  Speaker B: a lot of people doing great things. They really are. Yeah. Well, I know it's still. It's. I have a cousin that married, and he was a colonel. Lieutenant colonel, I think, when he retired, and. And she said, my gosh, I'd have rather married a dirty dirt farmer any day, because they. They lived everywhere, you know.
• 6:18
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:19
  Speaker B: And moved a million times. Yeah.
• 6:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. They told me, you get to see a lot of the world. I did. I didn't see the great places.
• 6:29
  Speaker B: It's like the places I never really wanted to go to. If I wanted to see sand dunes, I'd have gone to Lubbock, Texas. Yeah.
• 6:35
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:36
  Speaker B: Funny. My goodness. Well, tell us a little bit about American farmland Trust. It's something that I think people. Y' all have been in Texas for about three. Three years or so. And so maybe folks here aren't familiar with you, but I'm familiar because you have the no farms, no food.
• 6:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. You see that? Sticking around from time to time. And we want to get more stickers out of people's trucks, tractors, and all that. Good.
• 7:03
  Speaker B: There's also one that says, no farmers, no beer. No farms, no beer.
• 7:09
  Speaker A: There's no farms, no wine.
• 7:11
  Speaker B: We need that one around here. Yeah.
• 7:12
  Speaker A: And right now, I'm trying to get. Because we're getting more into the livestock production. Gonna get us to get a. No farms, no steak, no burger, something.
• 7:23
  Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
• 7:27
  Speaker A: Everybody represents.
• 7:28
  Speaker B: We need to say no farms, no tacos.
• 7:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's the thing, is there's no shortage, Right? Yeah, That's. Yes. Aftr. Our mission is to send the land that sustains us and. And the history of AFT. It actually started back in the 80s in New York State. The Rockefeller family, actually, they were looking around and they were seeing land that was being bought up and consumed and. And developed and a lot of, like, really good farmland. And they. They had a concern with that said, well, looks like we're losing a lot of land. I don't know, you're not producing new land, new farmers. So they started exploring this idea of how can we protect farmland? And because there were landowners, there were farmers who were looking, I said, look, I put so much energy and time into developing this farm or this ranch, and I don't want to just see it get paved over or building houses. So they started exploring and developing this idea of conservation easements, way to protect land. So that's part of a. Part of our mission is. And I'll talk about that here in a second. But it. It grew from New York, just kind of expanded across the country. I know historically there was a presence in Texas at one time.
• 8:44
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 8:44
  Speaker A: It didn't develop out. I don't. I don't know the whole story, but it went away. And then it came back about three years ago.
• 8:51
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: AFT was looking and said, look, there's. There's so much agricultural production in Texas. And quite frankly, Texas is losing more land to development than any other state as people are moving in, buying, building houses and businesses. So, yeah, re established a region here. My director got hired, Dr. Sarah Fulton Smith, and she started setting up a team. We started getting involved in different projects to. To help folks out here. But as far as our mission goes, like I said, it is. It's simply. It's saving the land that sustains us. We got three pillars to our mission. It's protecting the farmland through those easements that I talked about a minute ago. And then we promote sound farming practices or ranching practices, which is kind of the realm that I work in with an aft. And then we talk about keeping farmers on the land. So that might be things to, like technical assistance or financial assistance. We have some grant programs that sort of thing can help folks out with, you know, financial needs or technical assistance needs.
• 9:56
  Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. Well, that's. So I. I know easements have been a. That's not something that I. I was in tall. The Texas Ag Lifetime Leaders Program. And when we were in New York and Maryland, in Pennsylvania, that is where I learned a lot about easements, because. Whoa. I mean, they don't have much to lose. You know, we have a. We have a lot of land. And so it kind of takes a while for people to start going, oh, wait, farms are going away there. It doesn't take long, you know, and so really lots of interesting conversations around that, because it's just not something. And then I started hearing more of it's happening on the east side of the state, and. But it doesn't happen very much on our side of the state until recently. It's beginning to become more of an option for people.
• 10:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, you're right.
• 10:58
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:59
  Speaker A: I think probably, you know, farther east, just because there's, there's more development out that direction. Yeah. You're seeing a lot more land being lost. But, you know, as you feel farther west, there's more land that's, that's cheaper. And then we have these big, like, data center developments and that sort of thing, and they're, they're looking for that sort of land to, you know, to develop and get involved with. So, you know, I'll give you some quick numbers. Across America, we lose about 2,000 acres of land per day on average to development. That's land that's not coming back into agriculture. And in Texas, we lose about half of that. Upwards of a thousand acres.
• 11:43
  Speaker B: Yeah. And that, that is for people to understand. Like, that's something that. Where there's going to be concrete and it's, it's gone forever. I mean, like.
• 11:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, it did not without significant investment and rip stuff out. But.
• 11:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:59
  Speaker A: And you know, we want to be clear, like, we're not saying no development.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: Exactly. Yes.
• 12:06
  Speaker A: We want to promote smart development where we can.
• 12:09
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 12:09
  Speaker A: But what's happening is there are so many landowners, like I said a minute ago, that are looking and I poured so much into this, and I don't want to see it just be given up to the next person who. We don't know what they're going to do with. We don't know what their intentions are. And quite honestly, there's more value in land to develop it than there isn't.
• 12:27
  Speaker B: Oh, yes.
• 12:29
  Speaker A: In many cases, anyway. So, like that, that easement thing. And I don't, I don't want to get too much in the East.
• 12:35
  Speaker B: Correct. Yes. Yeah.
• 12:37
  Speaker A: I work in. But I do want people to know it exists. We've got smart people that we could get with you. We, we partner with Texas Agricultural Land Trust here in Texas, you know, for our Texas grazing network and other programs. Yes, they could talk all about that, those Eastman.
• 12:55
  Speaker B: Great people.
• 12:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you know them. And understanding. There's lots of land trusts across Texas that cater to certain, you know, ecological issues or certain environments, certain conservation topics, focuses. So there's all kinds of land trusts that exist out there for people that don't know exactly what it is. The idea is, and I'm going to paraphrase a little bit and defer to our friends at taller. Anyone to correct me, but in, in general, what you're doing is you're giving up your development rights or selling your development rights for the land to a land trust who then protects that land via conservation easement. In other words, they own the development rights. They don't. No one can develop it. So if it ever change, you could still sell it, you can still sell the land, but it's going to be sold at agricultural value rather than a
• 13:45
  Speaker B: commercial value because you've been paid the developmental value of that.
• 13:49
  Speaker A: Right. And that, that's important is, is if a land trust is working with you and they're buying those rights from you, right, you're going to get a payment for it so that you get to enjoy some of the value of the land as the landowner.
• 14:06
  Speaker B: Well, and I think it's interesting too. I think in some cases, you know, a lot of farmers when they retire, that's all they have is their land. And so how did that happen? Like how do you have just live year to year when you do not have income coming in anymore but you have this land, you know. And so I think that is an interesting thing for people too, especially in East Texas where land is really valuable to, you know, think about like, you make it like find a way to keep your land and retire, you know.
• 14:37
  Speaker A: So anyway, the, the limiting factor with that though is there's only so much money out there between the land trust and all the programs that, so there is demand for it. People hear about this and say, hey, I would like to do this, but it may not be right.
• 14:56
  Speaker B: Like every, everything else is over subscribed.
• 14:58
  Speaker A: Right, Right. So yeah, you know, the land trust, a good starting place is, is Tall Texas Ag Land Trust. And if they can't work with you, they can recommend a land trust that might be able to or maybe advise you on.
• 15:13
  Speaker B: Right.
• 15:14
  Speaker A: On a way to go, go about doing that.
• 15:16
  Speaker B: That's great. That's great. So tell us what you're doing. Tell us what you are doing. Your program.
• 15:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. So my prayer specifically we get out of the land trust part and get into the, the sound farming ranching practices. I managed the Texas Raising Network. The Texas Raising Network is a peer to peer learning network where we provide one on one mentorships to cattle producers primarily, but we'll work with any livestock producer if we got a mentor that can work with them in understanding and adopting regenerative grazing practices that improve their soil health, maybe improve their production, improve their livestock performance, that sort of thing. So what we do is, is someone that looks at this, says hey, I'd like help with that or I'd like to improve what I'm doing, we'll use, we like to use kind of the blanket term, umbrella term rather of land stewardship. I want to improve.
• 16:11
  Speaker B: Yes, I like that term a lot better.
• 16:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. And some people don't like the term regenerative. We understand that ultimately we, we are in the business of saying, hey, look, there are ways, there are things we can do to improve our soil, there's things we can do to improve our forage production that can in turn make us more profitable. So you know, however you want to look at it, that, that's fine. But those folks who are interested in doing that, improving their land stewardship, we'll connect them one on one with an experienced producer mentor who's been doing it for a while. They've, they've navigated the obstacles, they've stepped in a few bear traps of their own and then they can in turn work with that person on that person's ranch, on their operation, come out and said, look, I'm going to work with you within your context. So they're going to identify goals. What is it you want to do with your operation? What are you trying to improve?
• 17:00
  Speaker B: Right.
• 17:01
  Speaker A: And they'll develop an action plan to accomplish those goals again within the context of that person's operation. Our mentors will go out to the, the land, we call them land stewards. The folks we work with, they'll go out to the land stewards ranch four or five times over the course of the mentorship. You know, go over, what are they doing, look over their, their land, look over their school, you know, adjust their goals or adjust their plan is necessary to accomplish those goals. The idea, again, because it's a network, you know, we are trying to promote the idea of community as well. So there is a lot of one on one, but we do try to provide opportunities for folks to get together. Understand there's other producers out there that are doing this or wanting to do this.
• 17:42
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 17:43
  Speaker A: So we do that through workshops. We've got some online get togethers, that sort of thing. We try to get folks to go to conferences as a group. And, and those are some examples of just trying to promote the idea of community.
• 17:57
  Speaker B: Well, and it's really nice because it's not theoretical for the people that are those land steward people that are coming out and helping. It's, it's actual lived experience for them.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. And we started last year with a small cohort of folks and we've expanded rapidly this year we added a whole bunch of mentors. We got, we have 15 total mentors across the state, most of the state anyway. And then we're working with 60 some odd folks all together right now. And you know, last year when we
• 18:29
  Speaker B: got started, shortly this on your second year, that's amazing.
• 18:34
  Speaker A: It's, it's exciting.
• 18:35
  Speaker B: Yes, a lot.
• 18:37
  Speaker A: There's a lot of moving pieces to keep up.
• 18:39
  Speaker B: I bet. Congratulations though. What a great job. Yeah, thanks.
• 18:42
  Speaker A: And we're, we're hoping to continue to grow this and to expand it as well. But I got a really nice note from one of our land stewards last year. Ask for it or anything, but they just sent an email say hey, this is great. Like I've been to, I've been, you know, to these seminars and conferences and we read all these books and watched all these videos. But having this mentor, his name's Carl, he's phenomenal guy. Just to have him come out and look at our place and talk through it, it's like all those dots started connecting a little bit. We couldn't see it, but he could see it. So he wanted to be able to come out. So let me give you some, some ideas or some suggestions on what it is you need to do to, you know, accomplish that goal that you've got set. So it's, it's fun. We get the little feedback like that from time to time from the folks. You know, we have some incentives, some participation incentives for, for folks to go through the program. At least currently we do.
• 19:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Speaker A: But yeah, no, it, it's, it's fun and like I said, you know, everybody has different viewpoints or perspectives on this idea like regenerative ranching. Some people don't like it and they want to think about more. It's like I just want to make more money. Okay, that's fine. We're going to work with you within that context because we, these are things that we feel that they can lead to in improved profitability. We never guarantee anything, but we see things that we think could. Definitely.
• 20:09
  Speaker B: Yeah. So around here we think about, I say we, we view things through a triple, triple bottom line economics, which is positive impact on people, planet and profits.
• 20:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker B: You know, so that's where the word sustainability was. That's where that word came from. Was the man that invented this triple bottom line.
• 20:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: Or come up with this theory. And that was, he was like, that is, you know, the intersection where sustainability is, you know, so we have friend who says what the hell does that, you know, but everybody knows what stewardship means, you know, so. But I think that's, you Know, kind of one of your points is like, whether what. Which one of these is your goal? You know, and how do we. How do we help you reach that goal and. And maybe impact other areas that you weren't expecting to impact.
• 21:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Speaker B: You know, as well, some unexpected outcomes.
• 21:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. And that. That's one of the things I think, you know, when we were developing this a couple years ago, and you don't know what. You don't know, and you. You kind of have this idea, like, this is the kind of person that we want to attract, and this is the person who's going to show up. I want to do this program. The reality is it's a wide variety of folks, but everybody from that kind of. That. That person I described earlier a little bit, whether it's like, I. I need to connect these dots, I've been reading about it, but I. I don't know how to make it work to some folks who are doing it, quite frankly, might be a little advanced, but they're saying, hey, this is a great opportunity to have somebody come out and basically try to poke holes in my plan. And, like, I want somebody to come out and challenge me. I'm at a level I'm happy with, but I want to see if I can get to the next level. And. Okay, we want to try to do that. We work with lots of new ranchers. We have folks that just got their cattle, you know, maybe a small.
• 22:05
  Speaker B: What a time to get cattle.
• 22:07
  Speaker A: Well, yeah, that was last year. Of course, last year was pretty high, too.
• 22:11
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:13
  Speaker A: But they got it. They're all excited. They know they want to do. They want. They want to steward their land in a certain way, and they look at this as an opportunity for somebody to come out and just kind of get them off on. On the path that they want to be on.
• 22:26
  Speaker B: Yeah. I love that people are. Even though that the process, how people are still saying, this is. This is worth it. This is. This is a value to me. I wanted. I wanted to do this.
• 22:37
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:38
  Speaker B: And.
• 22:39
  Speaker A: And then it's. It's all across the state, too. And of course, Texas being what it is, we've got folks all the way down near Laredo. And then that's. You compare that country up to, like, Paris, Texas. We got folks all the way up there.
• 22:54
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:54
  Speaker A: And I. I laugh because I've talked to some of the. The folks out in East Texas. I. We're in this terrible drought, and then because up south of San Antonio, and I swear that's drought here. That would be great if we had that here, but it's. Again, it's. It's contextual. So it is. But might be hard for one environment. It's not so hard for the next. So that's why it's important that we have kind of a mix of mentors from across the state with different experiences that they can. They can talk in those. And I use that word context over and over again. I wish I had a synonym for it. But if they could talk within. Within that context, understanding that context to that land steward, it can help.
• 23:39
  Speaker B: So you got anybody on the west side yet?
• 23:42
  Speaker A: Not yet. I think the farthest west we have is Childress.
• 23:48
  Speaker B: Oh, my mind's already rolling. Like, I already have a couple people.
• 23:50
  Speaker A: I'm thinking, ooh, we want to get out that direction.
• 23:54
  Speaker B: I know some people that might really benefit from this.
• 23:58
  Speaker A: Our desire is to. Is to continue to expand across Texas and try to continue the program on. Down. Down the road. And obviously, as you get farther west. Okay, it's bigger operations.
• 24:10
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker A: Brittle environment and so new challenges, but a unique opportunity to have even bigger potential impact.
• 24:22
  Speaker B: Yes, I think so. Exactly. And, you know, I see there's a lot of movement. I'm in. I grew up in Terry county, which is just south of southwest of here. And I don't know, I mean, I've So many farmers have said to me or, you know, in conversations, like, so much of it's going back to grassland, you know, and I'm like, that is the perfect opportunity. I mean, in, like, if it's. If it's going to grow back to grassland, man, let's do it strategically and let's figure out, you know, how. How can. How can they get the maximum benefit out of.
• 25:00
  Speaker A: That would be a unique opportunity, you know, and I tie that in. Talk a personal experience again. My dad dearly loved him. He passed away last year. Call him one of the. One of the last peanut farmers of the area. They're still a couple peanut farmers in this immediate area, but they're largely gone now. And if we would go driving around, he got to the point he couldn't drive, and I would take him out. Yeah, just drive past old farms he used to lease, and he would look out the window and just kind of sighs, oh, no one's real crop farming anymore. No one's real crop farming anymore in this country. They're letting it go. And it. It grows up in brush and got mesquite. We'll just start growing up and nobody's working it at all. Oh, yeah, you think I think that that's land.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: They're just letting it, Just letting it because, you know, there's some people that just think if I just let it go back, then nature will do what it's supposed to do. Yeah, I'm sorry, we passed that. We have that, that ship, that ship has sailed,
• 26:03
  Speaker A: you know, bound up in barbed wire. I don't know if nature does exactly what it's. Right. Yeah.
• 26:08
  Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
• 26:09
  Speaker A: So, you know, and I look at it so, you know, you could lease it out because there's so many folks who are looking for land and they're looking for opportunities. Okay, well, if you're not gonna farm it, if you're not going to sell it, you're just holding on to it at least in the meantime let somebody else lease it out and you keep your agricultural valuation on it. And, and somebody could be producing food products for, for the country and, and making.
• 26:37
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 26:38
  Speaker A: Making some money along the way. So same thing out there. So you're talking about that in your part of the world as, as we know, you know, commodity prices are tough. They've been tough. Yes, I, I can imagine the pressure that some of those farmers are feeling.
• 26:52
  Speaker B: Well, and I know in our county was that big peanut county, they're not doing contracts this year with the biggest, you know, processor is not going to do contracts for peanuts this year. They said there's a glut of too many.
• 27:05
  Speaker A: No.
• 27:05
  Speaker B: So I mean, it just, I just feels like, you know, you just, everybody, I don't know
• 27:13
  Speaker A: out there, is it, is it peanuts or cotton?
• 27:16
  Speaker B: It's, it's cotton mostly, but peanuts are, you know, another really, you know, cash crop. So peanut, peanuts and cotton have been the cash crop. I don't, I think unless you have drip, cotton is not necessarily a cash. I don't, I don't. It's the thing that penciled out, it's the only thing really left it penciled out, you know, so with drip, because it's just so much more efficient.
• 27:37
  Speaker A: Oh, wow.
• 27:38
  Speaker B: But mostly we've had this conversation. I just had this conversation like it's, I mean, people are farming, they're like, what, what can I get for my water? You know, well, not selling their water rights, but they're saying like my water, what's the most valuable use of my water?
• 27:57
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 27:58
  Speaker B: You know, and so I think, I think we'll see a lot of, a lot more non irrigated land this year. Like more sorghum, things like that. So things are changing here very rapidly and there is, I think I Think there is a good opportunity here for, you know, folks to. To build a really good pipeline for protein production, whether it's sheep or goats or, you know, whatever. And we're seeing, you know, also my husband and I own a land and mineral management company, and so we do, you know, these solar developments as well, you know, and so we'd love to see. In fact, I'm taking American Farmlands Trust agrivoltaics course right now. Highly recommend. The first one was so interesting and really, I mean, really good. Really good. The statistics like that. It was so good. I did not expect to learn as much as I did, considering that I'm kind of in that industry, but I really learned a lot, and I'm excited about that. I mean, I think there's some potential for what you might call these alternative land uses that people haven't thought about that could lead to, you know, a double market on your land. Goats and.
• 29:08
  Speaker A: Or sheep and solar and that word, potential. There's. There's. You have the land, there's potential for something. And I think whether it's aft or any of the other many programs that are out there trying to help landowners, trying to help producers, we want to equip people with knowledge to make good decisions based on what it is they want to do. Understanding it, you know, it may be, man, there's so much pressure on this particular crop, then that may be like, you know, my dad was a peanut farmer. That's all he could think about. Yes, that was peanuts. If you could just shift a little bit, maybe there's potential somewhere else doing something a little bit differently. And there's so many resources that are out there. I just. I'm. I'm sure they've got good, strong farming communities out there. And then folks are sharing notes and sharing ideas.
• 29:56
  Speaker B: Right, right. Well, I'll tell you what. I mean, I. I talk to friends and I just. It's like, they're just. There's so much despondency, you know, and I think. I. I think to myself, like, how. How do you help bear those burdens? You know, I'm not. You know, we still have our land and everything, and. And frankly, we're on the easy side of bag. We're on the landowner, landlord side, you know, and. And. But I want. I. I want those good farmers to stay. I want good farmers to farm my land.
• 30:28
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 30:29
  Speaker B: I want good farmers to run cattle on my land. I don't want them to be gone, you know, and I love my little hometown and, like, you know, so How. How do. Do we come beside them? You know, when they are that despondent? You know, sometimes it's hard to see.
• 30:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 30:45
  Speaker B: What solutions are
• 30:48
  Speaker A: I. And sometimes it may be just having a new perspective shared with you. And keep going back to my dad farmer. So we, when I was helping. I mean, we still mess around with peanuts. He does watermelons too. And, and despondent. You said despondent. I had some despondent times and oh, man. And I tell them it was what. What I remember growing up is he was always fighting the. The coastal Bermuda grass that was encroaching from neighboring property.
• 31:23
  Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.
• 31:24
  Speaker A: And he's plowing and spraying and everything around the world. You can't. Once it gets going, you can't really kill it.
• 31:28
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 31:29
  Speaker A: Eventually he made peace with it and said that spots where it was just so thick. He just turned, well, I'll cut and bill it. And he had a very rudimentary hang set up and he would sell a few bells here and there to folks. I was telling him, just do hay just like everybody's doing hay around here now. Everybody's got row crops. They're on hay production. He saw and then he just. In his mind, he couldn't connect that dot. So I don't know how I'd sell it. Yeah. So let me help you. And you know, I just got on Craigslist, Right.
• 32:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 32:03
  Speaker A: Making ads.
• 32:03
  Speaker B: Right.
• 32:04
  Speaker A: And people would call and I would. And they'd come back to the field and I'd load them up and he. My dad thought I was some marketing wizard.
• 32:15
  Speaker B: I love that a little.
• 32:17
  Speaker A: Just a new perspective on things. And all of a sudden he's looking around. I guess I've got this irrigation and it. We could do all these things. And so he started thinking about things a little bit differently.
• 32:28
  Speaker B: Yeah. Now that's kind of. I think that's a really good example of what I mean. Like how do you just, you know, breathe a little, you know, air into the know and point the right direction or provide the resources, you know, that says like, you know, if you want to do it, we'll get you. We'll figure it out. We'll figure out how to help you do it, you know, because it's a lot of investment, you know, so you've got people that, you know, they're in already on hard situation. Go to the bank to say, I want to put in cows and I need X thousands of dollars to put in cash.
• 33:00
  Speaker A: Right. It's fine. Thank you.
• 33:02
  Speaker B: Which I'm not going to harvest for maybe 18 months or so. Yeah. So I mean, it's a, it's a long term project.
• 33:12
  Speaker A: It's important to connect with folks. Again, whatever program it is, whatever resources, you know, AFT or any of the many other resources that are out there, it's like, what are my options? You know, I need to get equipped with as much knowledge as I can, as much information as I can to make the best decisions possible. Because sometimes people, all they can think about is CalCap operations. Well, there's other. You can do finishing operations, you can do backgrounding, you can, you know, you can do a variety of things that can maybe get you going, get cash flow going quicker.
• 33:41
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 33:42
  Speaker A: But if you don't have that background, you don't have that experience and you're just relying on your, you know.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: Right, yeah, right.
• 33:48
  Speaker A: Yourself, you know.
• 33:50
  Speaker B: Right.
• 33:51
  Speaker A: So that's why it's important, you know. But, you know, kind of talk about, you know, just the idea of mentorship in general, and you hear me say, whether it's AFT or someone else, there's so many resources that are out there. And that's what I hope people understand. It's like if you want to call it mentorship or consulting or one on one guidance, whatever term you want to use, to have somebody that can come alongside you in your place and say, let me understand what it, what you are, what you're about, what you're trying to do. And that, that could be somebody that has experience. It can, can give you information, not necessarily tell you what to do, but try to give you some ideas, encourage you. Maybe a couple, here's a couple different options. And let me explain to you why these options might work or might not work in having that, that type of relationship. Somebody that you can pick up the phone, say, hey, I have a question. You said this, I don't understand this, or I'm doing this and it's not working out. Yes, I think people benefit from that. That's not just agriculture. I'm sure we could all step back and look at some point in our lives, careers, someone came alongside us and said, let me help you. And that's mentorship. And I just promote that idea of mentorship, you know, any industry, absolutely, in agriculture. And if people are thinking about making a significant change to their operation, I think it's important to have somebody that you can call on, consider a mentor or a close friend that will help you, that will try to understand what it is you're trying to do and work with you within your context to accomplish your Goals?
• 35:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. I think there's wisdom in that, you know, and I think people, I think farmers know that they definitely listen to each other, you know, and, But I know my, my brother transitioned into grapes. He, he went, you know, to different places, particularly Washington state. And he said, I just went, shut up and listen because I don't know anything. You know what I mean? And, you know, and so I, I think that was some of the best advice. Like, and as I like, you know, I love to learn new things and there's, there's so much benefit in just listening, you know, but having somebody there recognizing their value.
• 36:14
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker B: You know, and what they can provide to you, it's really important.
• 36:20
  Speaker A: You've told me before are great. Is grapes great production. Is that an expanding industry?
• 36:27
  Speaker B: So not even. Not now. So we grow 85 or so percent. The county that I'm from grows about 85ish percent of all Texas grapes. So we have a great ABA here now. Abas have expanded and they're, they're being broken up. And somebody told me like, the Hill Country's even been breaking the Hill country up into like 3 ABAs. But ours is like the Spanish Mediterranean. So we have hot days and cool nights and we have, we don't have the pest because we're dry. We don't have as much of the, the mold issues, you know, and so it's been a perfect region for growing grapes. And. But wine consumption is down like 30% globally. And so the market is just tanked. And so a lot of the, the folks up in the Hill country, the wineries, they will, you know, they're just going to get cheaper grapes like, you know, from California, you know, so if you see something that says made in Texas, it does not have, I mean, it might have a little bit of Texas grapes, but you need to make sure it says grown in Texas.
• 37:36
  Speaker A: Okay, If I wanna, I want to go out and buy a couple bottles of wine to support you. Who, who do I need to find? Who's.
• 37:43
  Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. So my brothers is. Lost draw. Lost L O S T D R A W Lost Draw.
• 37:53
  Speaker A: Okay, let's draw.
• 37:54
  Speaker B: Lost Draw. And they have a, there's a tasting room there in, in Fredericksburg. So. And then another good one is Bingham, the Bingham family vineyards.
• 38:08
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 38:09
  Speaker B: And then farmhouse is another one.
• 38:13
  Speaker A: Farmhouse. Just farmhouse.
• 38:15
  Speaker B: Farmhouse. So if you go to. And. But pretty much if you're getting, you know, if you look and see those are, those are some more vertically integrated folks. And. But there's other, there's Lots of others. There's lots of others. And everybody's hurting. And we had a freeze two nights ago. It was in the 20s. So this is when they're. Yeah, we have bud break. And so. Yeah. So who knows what will happen this year? Because the last two years, almost every vineyard on the high plains, like, the. The wineries walked on their contracts. They just. We don't want it. We don't want the grapes. We don't want them. So, you know, it's not like we're going to plant grapes again next year. You know what I'm saying? So there's this. This. It's. It's really a difficult time in the industry because you just kind of have. Everybody's trying to stay alive. Well, if you don't have Texas, if you ruin the grape industry, if you ruin the farmers, you know, and I think that's the thing. It's like they want the cost of production to be lower, and it's not. You know, it's not love.
• 39:27
  Speaker A: So, man, you know, it's so frustrating because I guess it's just been like this since the beginning of time, actually growing the food.
• 39:41
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 39:41
  Speaker A: Rug pulled up.
• 39:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a lot. It's. So, you know, that's a county that then, like, okay, so we may. We've got, you know, gonna have great problems. We're not gonna have any peanuts, and cotton prices are in the tank, you know, so that's a triple whammy for that. Not. Not just that county, but for several counties. So. Yeah. Interesting.
• 40:06
  Speaker A: Well, I'm gonna go out and get some lost straw just to do it.
• 40:10
  Speaker B: Probably HB is your best bet, I think, for getting. They'll have the best selection, and most of them will tell you, like, where they're grown and something about the. About the vineyard, where they came from. Yeah.
• 40:22
  Speaker A: Well, I'm a big proponent of this idea of buying local and trying to get people to understand, like, look, you know, we want to support farmers, but also be thinking about your community, to be thinking about your region where you have so many farmers who are producing good food. And, of course, we got this massive logistics monster that moves food here and there and everywhere. So just trying to connect with them, whatever that is, if it's through HEB and the way they're able to brand and market things or through farmers markets, making connections with your. Your local farmer, local rancher, and buying direct, even though it might cost a little bit more.
• 41:01
  Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker A: It is supporting something that's very important. Local production and ultimately, I think that's just the way food should be. I think you should be getting your area from your region rather than being shipped.
• 41:16
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I've been thinking about it in terms of like global ag production and local ag production, you know, and there's, they're two separate things and you know, there's a need for both. But this one, this local ag production is the one that we just don't, we don't have enough of and we, we have another covet and we'll understand, you know, why. We want to ensure that we have a way to grow on food locally. Yeah, for sure. Well, this has been very interesting. We're going to put all, of course, the show notes, but we'll put all your contact information how people can get a hold of you and the website and all of those things so people can know what you're doing and you may have, you may have some calls from this area.
• 42:04
  Speaker A: So, and I, I just, I, I, my heart is for the farmer and rancher and as yours is. And there's so many, like I said, there's so many resources and organizations out there that are trying to help. We just, we want to help out and if somebody's interested in it and said, look, I, yeah, I'd like to try to run a few cows and maybe give this style production a try. Yeah, we'll help you. Or if we can't help you, we'll find someone that can. So.
• 42:33
  Speaker B: That's awesome. That's great. Well, thanks, thanks effort Outlaw, for being here.
• 42:39
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 42:40
  Speaker B: Just like love your name.
• 42:42
  Speaker A: Well, what you're doing. And I'm glad I'll tell Garrett that you gave her.
• 42:49
  Speaker B: Yes, I, So I worked Sarah, our organization, we're partners with NASA Acres. And so I saw him, he came and met me at the booth at the NASA booth at Cody Classic where I was working. So that was fun. I got to actually meet him in person. Yep. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, it's great. I mean, I'm really excited to looking forward to the remainder of that. So. And I'm sure I'll be talking about a lot here on these stories. So anyway.
• 43:18
  Speaker A: Very good.
• 43:19
  Speaker B: Well, friends, thank you for listening in to this edition. And I think that not even, you know, just if it's something that you're thinking about running through your mind, that sounds like to me, ever, you're a great resource, not just for your organization, but for farmers in general. So I just recommend people reach out to. You need to have somebody to bounce some things off of. So folks. We'll see you again. Hope that you'll join us next Friday. Thanks.