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The war on farmers: How global power brokers are dismantling your food supply · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the 10penny files.
• 0:29
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:30
  Sherry Tenpenny.
• 0:32
  Here at the Tenpenny Files, we dive into vital and often controversial discussions on topics that will challenge what you've been told and reveal what's been hidden.
• 0:41
  These compelling conversations will make you think, spark debate, and hopefully inspire action.
• 0:48
  Join me here each day, Monday through Friday at 3 p.m.
• 0:50
  Eastern to hear from authors and documentary filmmakers who have something important to say, but have often been silenced or censored.
• 0:59
  Today's conversation is with our guest, John Clark, attorney, author, organic farmer, and pastor from Vermont to talk about his book, The War on Farmers.
• 1:10
  John, it's so good to see you again.
• 1:12
  Welcome so much to the 10 Penny Files.
• 1:14
  I'm honored.
• 1:15
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:17
  So tell us about your journey.
• 1:18
  How did you become a lawyer and then become an organic farmer in Vermont?
• 1:25
  Well, I can say I never thought I'd be a lawyer.
• 1:27
  I never thought I'd be a farmer.
• 1:28
  I never thought I'd be a pastor.
• 1:30
  And I never thought I'd be an author.
• 1:31
  I was kind of a blue-collar guy.
• 1:33
  My dad helped me go to law school.
• 1:35
  I did very, very well in University of Connecticut School of Law.
• 1:40
  I was a tax attorney for uh several years with uh a big six at the time accounting firm.
• 1:45
  And then when I moved back from the UK to Eastern Connecticut, I opened a law practice where I practiced as a litigator for about six or seven years.
• 1:55
  And then I got really, really sick.
• 1:59
  And it turned out it was Lyme disease, but I didn't get diagnosed for quite a while.
• 2:03
  And by that point, it was probably chronic Lyme.
• 2:06
  So I spent 12 years on antibiotics.
• 2:09
  I was forced to close my law practice.
• 2:11
  I could barely walk.
• 2:12
  It's what led me to my faith journey.
• 2:15
  And so I said to my wife, I said, I want to live where my heart is.
• 2:20
  Let's go to Vermont.
• 2:21
  Because my family are from here where I'm sitting from in Vermont on this mountain for I'm seventh generation, so about 200 years.
• 2:29
  And so we bought to we moved to Vermont, bought an old dairy farm.
• 2:32
  I'd never made a bale of hay.
• 2:34
  I'd never had a cow.
• 2:35
  And um, I didn't make much money at it, but we've been farming for 25 years.
• 2:39
  And after over a decade of being on antibiotics, I just was sick of it and I wasn't getting better.
• 2:46
  And I told my doctor, he's like, Well, you still have Lyme.
• 2:48
  I said, Well, I don't care.
• 2:49
  I can't take the cure anymore.
• 2:51
  And so I started focusing more on managing my lifestyle.
• 2:55
  And I started to sort out what foods in particular were causing my flares.
• 3:01
  I have fibromyalgia.
• 3:03
  And as I started to eliminate those foods and focus on better sleep, better hydration, moderate exercise.
• 3:10
  That's why I got into farming.
• 3:12
  I realized with fibromyalgia, if you stop moving, you just become more and more restricted until you're you're in a wheelchair or a walker, as the people were that I met.
• 3:21
  And I was determined not to have that happen.
• 3:23
  I didn't want to take opioids.
• 3:25
  So food became medicine for me.
• 3:27
  And in the Maha movement of which I'm part, it's a very common story that people found healing and reversal of illness.
• 3:35
  And so I am sitting here in my early 60s in way less pain than I was in my mid-30s when Lyme disease uh gave me the gift of getting out of lawyering and into farming.
• 3:46
  And so now I have cows, so I don't make any money, but I'm much richer with my faith and my cows.
• 3:53
  Oh, that's a great that's a great story.
• 3:55
  You know, you mentioned in your book, The War on Farmers that in 2007, 2008, you foresaw the banking and real estate collapse.
• 4:05
  Why did you sell your farm?
• 4:07
  And even the more question that I have for me is why did you decide to rent a nearby farm and had it and you rented it for 13 years?
• 4:16
  Well, I guess that was a fiscal decision.
• 4:18
  There were several reasons.
• 4:20
  Um we had 160 acre dairy farm in the Northeast Kingdom near the Canadian border, very cold area.
• 4:26
  But at that point, we've been there about five years, and there were several factors that came together.
• 4:32
  One is, first of all, I was a tax attorney.
• 4:35
  I read the Wall Street Journal for years.
• 4:37
  I read, I read it while I was farming.
• 4:40
  I read it regularly.
• 4:42
  And when you loan out 600 billion dollars in six months to people with no income, no jobs, and no assets, it's a recipe for disaster.
• 4:51
  I had worked in real estate for years as a lawyer and through law school.
• 4:54
  We did real estate practice in Connecticut.
• 4:57
  I've had already seen boom and bus real estate markets.
• 5:00
  So we really weren't in a position to be able to afford to take the hit on the farm.
• 5:04
  At that point, it had gone up.
• 5:06
  But also, my health still hadn't got better.
• 5:08
  The plan was that I was going to farm and I was going to get better.
• 5:10
  It'd been five years.
• 5:12
  We had built an artisanal cheese house.
• 5:14
  We were making uh you know organic cheese from our goat and cow's milk.
• 5:19
  We were working about 80 or 90 hours a week with all the animals we had.
• 5:23
  And so, but also our boys, our two sons were in their teens now, and they were starting to get a little bit harder to handle.
• 5:31
  And I was afraid that they were becoming alienated by the farming, which they now swear they loved, but it was a lot of work.
• 5:38
  And so a combination of factors, but I'd said to Jackie, I said, the the real estate market is going to collapse.
• 5:44
  It is, now it didn't happen for another two years.
• 5:47
  I'm amazed it went that much longer.
• 5:49
  So we rented because we didn't want to be invested in real estate market that was declining.
• 5:54
  It actually took about 12 years for prices to get back to where they were.
• 5:58
  And then we started building in 07.
• 6:00
  We started building an off-grid house on land that was originally purchased by my great-great great-great-grandfather Solomon Stoddard.
• 6:08
  And we sought our, I saw the timbers with my kids, and we built the foundation out of granite block and it has a root cellar and a masonry heater.
• 6:17
  And we'll we lived in that for several years.
• 6:20
  So uh that that was what caused us to downsize.
• 6:24
  But when we moved, we still rented a farm, still had cows, still had sheep.
• 6:27
  And what I found is that probably the most profitable niche for us vis-a-vis the labor was grass-fed meats.
• 6:35
  There was a growing market for that.
• 6:36
  And so we just we just stuck with that.
• 6:39
  I didn't even know that renting a farm was an option for people.
• 6:44
  It was then.
• 6:45
  It's a little harder now.
• 6:46
  We paid $500 a month uh for that.
• 6:49
  And it included about uh six or eight acres, but we also used a neighbor's field that we fenced was about another 15 acres.
• 6:57
  And we had a farmhouse.
• 6:59
  It was a it was kind of a rough house, but a lot of older houses in Vermont are rough.
• 7:03
  You know, if the skunk can come in the basement without being stopped, then you have some chinks in your stone wall, you know.
• 7:09
  And we had a massive barn.
• 7:11
  So I mean, we we kind of, you know, one of the my grandmother used to say there are two ways to get rich, make more money or spend less.
• 7:19
  So in farming, you're always looking at ways to keep your overheads minimized because your margins are not are not, you know, you don't have money to throw around the way you might in other business models.
• 7:30
  So yeah, we we rented there for about 12 years until the owners came and demolished the house and built a new house.
• 7:36
  They were living in Virginia and they retired.
• 7:38
  And so then we moved down here to central Vermont to where my family is.
• 7:42
  Interesting.
• 7:43
  You know, since the Maha movement came into being, and since Secretary Kennedy became head of HHS, um, there's been more of a focus on food and farming than ever before.
• 7:55
  And I think there's always been pockets of that in the health freedom movement, and there's always been pockets of nutritionally conscious, crunchy moms, as they would call them.
• 8:04
  But now we really talk about organic farming and regenerative farming.
• 8:08
  What's the difference between the two of them and why are they both considered sustainable agricultural techniques?
• 8:15
  Well, I should mention I have a previous book that came out in 2023 with Chelsea Green publishing called Small Farm Republic, in which I advocated for small farms and organic farming as an environmental policy that conservatives could lead on because the conservatives didn't have the best track record on the environment, even though it was Richard Nixon who founded the EPA and conservatives used to be in agreement with Democrats that chemicals in toxins in our food environment were bad.
• 8:45
  And so that's kind of what Maha became.
• 8:47
  And in the book, I tried to tackle this issue of what's organic versus regenerative versus conventional.
• 8:53
  Because what I've noticed over the years is that there's often a division, and it's really a false division between convention or what might be called pejoratively industrial farmers and organic farmers who are maybe smaller scale and are about nurturing the soil and avoiding pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, just doing it the way my great greats did it.
• 9:14
  And so what I fashioned for a description, because you'll still find different people saying different things, but what I fashioned for a definition of the book, I'll give you now.
• 9:22
  Organic is when you are trying to be as pure as possible and clean of any pesticide, which and or other residues, which is becoming difficult because of drift and waterway contamination, rainfall.
• 9:35
  It's becoming difficult.
• 9:36
  But regenerative refers to things that are not purely organic because there are organic standards, whether through USDA or other private organizations, can't use artificial, you can't use wormers, you can't use antibiotics.
• 9:49
  You know, you can't in and once you use any of these things, you are no longer certified organic.
• 9:54
  But there's a whole group of farms that are that are moving towards organic and that are employing and may have been.
• 10:00
  Traditional farmers.
• 10:01
  Now, our country has paid farmers to use industrial practices and GMOs and synthetic fertilizers for decades.
• 10:07
  We literally paid them to do that.
• 10:09
  And so now we shouldn't penalize them, but many of them want escape from that.
• 10:13
  And so they can do things like less tilling, using rotational cropping systems, avoiding pesticides or using even fewer pesticides.
• 10:22
  And now they're on what we might call a spectrum or what we may call a transition, not a gender transition, but a an organic farming transition.
• 10:32
  So they're making things, steps towards organics that we want to encourage.
• 10:37
  And another thing I explained in my book is that organic food that comes from China, whether even if it is trustworthy or another country, maybe have a greater impact that's adverse on the environment than a conventional local farm that isn't a purest organic entity that's down the road.
• 10:55
  Because there are costs when you distribute food too.
• 10:57
  There are there are costs in in transportation related to the release of toxins into the environment, whether or not carbon dioxide is a toxin, because it isn't.
• 11:07
  And so anyway, so that's really why we hear those two different terms, and they're often used interchangeably, but they're not the same, and people vary how they define regenerative agriculture.
• 11:16
  But we want to encourage that that list of regenerative practices.
• 11:19
  So a lot of people, a lot of farmers are at different places along that spectrum as far as trying to move towards, and most of them, the more they start to embrace regenerative practices, they're going to end up organic because they're going to see the benefits.
• 11:33
  They're going to see uh, you know, more nutrient content in the food.
• 11:36
  They're going to see their soils rebuild.
• 11:37
  There are many people out there telling this story.
• 11:39
  Gabe Brown has a good book called Dirt to Soil.
• 11:42
  Uh, Will Harris has done the same down in Georgia.
• 11:45
  These are farmers that were conventional farmers, and their neighbors scoffed at them when they stopped spending millions of dollars on chemicals from factories to pour on the soil and started rebuilding soils with manure and watching what God provided, what nature provided to to grow food more efficiently over time.
• 12:05
  You know, you mentioned uh cows and carbon dioxide.
• 12:09
  And you know, this whole global warming agenda about decreasing is really about decreasing the food supply, and there is no such thing as global warming caused by cow farts.
• 12:19
  So, how better cows for the environment?
• 12:22
  You know, they've been giving those pills.
• 12:24
  And I actually went to a conference.
• 12:26
  Actually, that's not exactly true.
• 12:28
  I watched a conference online at the beginning part of this year out of San Francisco, and it was about um it was about farming.
• 12:36
  And I watched, and they were talking about these pills that were being made to give to cows so that they would stop releasing all this methane in their cow farts.
• 12:45
  And now that they're using these pills, and I think it's in Belgium, and all these cows are dying, like within days of starting this.
• 12:56
  I mean, cows and methane are not a big deal.
• 12:59
  It's not, you know, the amount of gas that's in the air.
• 13:03
  And why are they saying that cows are so bad for the climate?
• 13:06
  And what do you think about those pills that they've been given these cows that's causing them to die?
• 13:12
  Well, that's uh a mouthful, Dr.
• 13:14
  T.
• 13:15
  And so that's what we lawyers, we lawyers would call a compound question.
• 13:19
  You actually asked me about nine questions here.
• 13:20
  So let's see if I can try to give you a compound answer.
• 13:24
  No, that's how, no, I I love the question.
• 13:27
  It's something I feel very passionate about.
• 13:28
  I love my cows.
• 13:29
  And my cows are not in a confined feeding operation.
• 13:32
  Um, they don't get antibiotics, they don't get wormers, they're totally organic, grass-fed, and that's what I eat, you know, and and um that may sound horrible, but I have I we do on farm slaughter as well, which is the most humane way to do it.
• 13:45
  Uh, by the way, it's Denmark where the cows have been dropping dead, though they in that bovaire is the patented, gee, money-making product that they've been giving them.
• 13:54
  And yes, they've been developing mastitis, dropping in their milk production, some of them have been dying.
• 13:59
  The vets have had to be called out.
• 14:01
  It's it's a horror show.
• 14:02
  They've now, I believe, discontinued it.
• 14:04
  And it was mandated.
• 14:05
  So if you're a farmer and you didn't give your cows the bovaire, you could be fined sizably, which again, we don't have big profit margins even in Europe.
• 14:13
  So the big answer to your question, if I dare say it, because you said it is that they want to they want to control the food supply.
• 14:19
  Henry Kissinger is credited with having said, control the food, control the people.
• 14:24
  I don't know that he actually said that, but that's a good summary of what he put out in the at the time top secret Kissinger report, when he called for population control around the globe.
• 14:33
  But if you really read the Kitchener report, which was issued as a national security document by signed by Nixon, and there were later memos that showed that it was a collaboration between the USDA, the State Department, Henry Kissinger, the CIA, and lo and behold, USAID.
• 14:50
  And it's a terribly sinister plan.
• 14:54
  Ultimately, the national security interests, by the way, to protect industrial access to foreign natural resources, lest you have disruption because of runaway breeding like rabbits, third world countries.
• 15:06
  That's what it was about.
• 15:07
  Now it's matured into the modern globalist structure of the WEF, the UN, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank, they're all in coots.
• 15:14
  The WEF is a particular look at who's sitting at the table at the WEF, the largest corporations, Vanguard and Black Rock, Zurich Insurance, Bear Monsanto, the big food companies, and they are literally drafting global farm policy.
• 15:29
  And I document this in the book that I've sent you.
• 15:32
  And so it's right in their writing.
• 15:34
  And so what they say is that in order to save the planet and save the world from that deadly evil of carbon dioxide, which makes plants grow, that we have to convert to an industrial model of agriculture that's dependent on GMO crops and synthetic fertilizers and of course glyphosate, because GMOs are dependent on that.
• 15:53
  They're designed to be dependent on that.
• 15:55
  And it's a marvelous technology, but it's polluting us.
• 15:58
  You know, recent revelations are showing that glyphosate is not as safe as promised.
• 16:02
  It may have really adverse impacts on our gut microbiome, which could explain a lot of illnesses, you know and your listeners.
• 16:10
  Uh, but also it creates a dependency.
• 16:13
  And over time, it's deport, it's literally depleting soils.
• 16:16
  You can't replace manure and in what's called green manure, which is uh composted green matter, plants, you know, one way or the other, that's how you build soils.
• 16:26
  You feed them microbes.
• 16:27
  You don't just feed the plants nitrogen, phosphorus, or potassium.
• 16:30
  You feed the microbes what they need, and then they will feed the plants.
• 16:34
  There are more microbes in a teaspoon of healthy soil than there are humans on the planet.
• 16:39
  What about the cows?
• 16:40
  And you use that word of uh of of uh a mouth emission that cows have that oh no, the back end.
• 16:47
  Most of it comes out of the front end, burps.
• 16:49
  We'll talk about cow burps, because about 95% of methane comes out of the front end of a cow.
• 16:54
  So that whole thing about cow farts and AOC is you know, we laugh about it.
• 16:57
  People automatically laugh about it, and yet they're still doing it right in front of us.
• 17:00
  Talk about cognitive dissonance.
• 17:02
  Why would we let them?
• 17:03
  They're not going after dog and cat farts.
• 17:05
  We have something like 96 million dogs and cats, and their manure ends up in landfills, which of course is spewing methane into the air without even feeding our soils.
• 17:13
  What about golf carts and skiers or lawn mowing, 800 million acres of lawns being mowed?
• 17:20
  I beg your pardon, 800 million gallons of gasoline being burned a year in our lawn mowers.
• 17:26
  A lot of it spilled on the ground.
• 17:27
  No, don't hear about that, because you, by the way, you don't want to go after Americans' lawn.
• 17:32
  They will string you up.
• 17:34
  But they go after cows.
• 17:36
  And you have to ask if you have any common sense or or critical thinking skills, why they would do that.
• 17:43
  And the reason they can do that is they want to do that is because if you control the cows, you control the people.
• 17:48
  I can raise cows and feed a lot of people just off the grass, what I call God solar panels.
• 17:54
  All right, I don't need renewable energy manufactured products from China that spew all kinds of chemicals in the air to raise meat as God intended.
• 18:03
  We've been doing this for tens of thousands of years.
• 18:05
  And so the globalists realize that as long as we farmers have the independence to feed our rural communities, that we can't be enslaved by them.
• 18:13
  If they control the food, whether with synthetic meats or because those are all plant-based, by the way, synthetic meats, if they're made from GMO crops, all those crops have pesticide residues and glyphosate in them, and they get concentrated through then the processing of those ultra-processed foods are devoid of most essential nutrients, which are where real health comes from.
• 18:33
  So, as a document in the book, this is a plan, it's a charade in the name of this crisis, which if you read the intergovernmental uh climate change reports, they don't say the world's gonna end in 10 years.
• 18:44
  That's Greta Thunberg, who's now on Israel instead of climate now, I guess.
• 18:48
  I guess she's no longer worried about the climate.
• 18:50
  She's worried about Palestinians and we're all gonna be dead in seven years anyway, right?
• 18:53
  Is it what is it, five years now?
• 18:55
  That's a fiction.
• 18:56
  And that is not real science.
• 18:58
  Now, if it were true that we were facing a crisis with carbon dioxide, then cows are not the culprits.
• 19:05
  Cows are the solution.
• 19:06
  Cows in CAFOs maybe are questionable.
• 19:09
  But my cows out on the grass, they rebuild the soils that synthetic farming systems are destroying.
• 19:15
  We are desertifying our nation.
• 19:17
  We are depleting our soils and our water supplies and our aquifers.
• 19:21
  We're toxifying our water with atrazine, which is an endocrine disruptor, and it mimics estrogen.
• 19:27
  It's in our groundwater everywhere, it's in our drinking water, all for corn, just to increase the production just a few percent.
• 19:34
  Well, that's what sustainability means.
• 19:37
  Sustainability is about whether you can maintain a practice.
• 19:40
  The global blueprint for food production is not sustainable.
• 19:45
  It is measurably destroying soils, destroying the microbiological activity of those soils, and it's destroying our water supplies, and we simply don't have enough water in our oglala and other aquifers in this country.
• 20:00
  To sustain you can look at different studies and I document in the book.
• 20:04
  Some say we only have 20 years before we literally, when I go out west, they pump water out of the ground.
• 20:09
  We literally won't have water to artificially irrigate the land anymore.
• 20:14
  So cows are the solution.
• 20:16
  Cows, they you know, raised on grass, rebuild soils, they don't pollute the water, and they give us food that doesn't have to be shipped from a long distance away.
• 20:26
  Why would you go against cows?
• 20:28
  Well, because you're a liar.
• 20:30
  And because you have an ulterior motive.
• 20:32
  So we should not subjugate ourselves or go quietly into that dark night, and neither will my cows.
• 20:40
  Wow, that's you accused me of like a whole bunch of questions all at once.
• 20:45
  That's a whole bunch of stuff to unpack right there too, John, which was really brilliant and really smart and really important.
• 20:51
  You know, that um just the fact of knowing that if there's methane that's coming out of cows, it's about cow burps and not cow farts, and they've really made a big deal about this.
• 21:02
  Um, you know, there's other ways that um the globalists are subverting our food supply, like eating the bugs and eating the crickets and the cricket farms.
• 21:11
  I wrote quite a bit about that in a sub stack over the course of the year.
• 21:15
  Um, what other ways are they creating a war on farmers besides just the cows to really cut down on the global food supply?
• 21:25
  Well, first of all, just a little aside on methane.
• 21:28
  There have been level amounts of methane as far as attributable to cows, even for KFO cows.
• 21:34
  It's not measurably going up.
• 21:36
  Methane dissipates over time, it breaks down into carbon dioxide.
• 21:39
  So there's no net increase in methane by cows.
• 21:42
  But moreover, cow manure applied to the soil feeds microbes that oh, eat methane, and that soil sequesters carbon dioxide.
• 21:52
  So once again, if your concern is carbon dioxide, nothing will rewilding by letting farmland grow back to trees, right?
• 22:01
  And giving people tax credits to do that is counterproductive if your goal is to sequester carbon because healthy pastures sequester more carbon than forests and forests rot and break down, et cetera, and it gets re-released, not in healthy soils.
• 22:15
  So healthy soils are the solution.
• 22:18
  There are many other areas that they are also waging a war on farmers.
• 22:23
  And this has happened, been happening since before you and I were born.
• 22:26
  You may know the writer Wendell Barry, whose baton I feel I'm carrying.
• 22:31
  He wrote about the unsettling of America in the 70s.
• 22:34
  That the consolidation of farms and to get bigger and get back get out or get out by oral butts, the industrial methods of applying chemicals in the entire modern industrial system post-World War II, ignored and was was ignorant of how we were destroying the micros, microbes of the soil.
• 22:53
  But what's happened is it's been very profitable.
• 22:55
  And there are companies, whether they're doing it deliberately or not, they're out to make a profit.
• 23:01
  So when companies develop a new patented product like a GMO seed or a new pesticide, they want to make money off it, just like pharmaceutical companies.
• 23:11
  And so they push out, they want to increase their market share.
• 23:13
  They need to increase their profits.
• 23:15
  There are monopolies in this country that have been runaway for years, and they control fertilizers, they control farm equipment, land prices are through the roof.
• 23:24
  And another way that they've pushed, and they've been basically conspiring, would be the word with government agencies, captured regulatory agencies, as uh Robert Kennedy has pointed out that work to help the large farms at the expense of the small farms.
• 23:40
  They have been pushing out small farms as statistics are there for decades.
• 23:45
  And the interest is profit and market consolidation.
• 23:48
  But now we have skyrocketing land prices, especially especially since COVID.
• 23:53
  The tax burden is huge.
• 23:55
  So inputs have gone up steadily for farmers, and the whole battle in Europe is another manifestation of the same.
• 24:02
  Uh, the the small farms are not making money, but that's where the healthy money comes or the healthy food comes from, and they consolidate into more profitable food markets that they make more money off, and we get sicker, and then they make money selling us the cures.
• 24:16
  Bear Monsanto generates these chemicals, is the owner and producer of glyphosate, which is in Roundup.
• 24:22
  And they're also a pharmaceutical company, so they can then sell you the more chemicals to heal you with uh chemo after you get sick and get Parkinson's.
• 24:33
  So it's it's a scam, and it's about power, control, and money.
• 24:37
  It's as old as humanity.
• 24:40
  Yeah, you know, from way back when we were serfs to the king, and that's what they're trying to make here again.
• 24:46
  And I think this is a good place for us to take a short break because I've got so many more questions and you've got so many more answers of things that we're talking about today, because this is incredibly important.
• 24:58
  And we're talking to John Clark about the war on farmers, his book.
• 25:02
  We're going to take a quick break right now.
• 25:04
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• 32:10
  Well, welcome back, everybody.
• 32:12
  Today we're talking with John Clark about his book, The War on Farmers.
• 32:16
  Let me tell you a little bit more about our guest.
• 32:18
  If you missed the beginning part of our show, um John is an author, an attorney, an organic farmer, and pastor from Vermont.
• 32:26
  John is also involved in the Maha movement and writes for the Maha Report.
• 32:31
  Um over two centuries ago, his relative, Solomon Stoddard, moved to Vermont Hillside.
• 32:38
  And John's grandchildren are ninth generation to know this green mountain farming area.
• 32:45
  John, let's talk a little bit more about the importance of soil, because in your title of the first chapter of your book is it's living soil, it's not dead dirt, which is just a great title.
• 32:57
  Um what are the similarities in the soil microbe between the soil microbes and the microbes that are in the human gut?
• 33:04
  Well, they're pretty much identical.
• 33:06
  They're slightly differently populated, but we in the modern age, we live in terror of unseen germs instead of unseen chemical pollutants.
• 33:14
  But about 97 or 98% of bacteria are actually beneficial, and without them we would die.
• 33:20
  That's what breaks down our food and makes it available for our body to take up, as you probably know better than I do.
• 33:27
  That has a direct connection to the soil microbes that also feed the plants that feed the animals that feed us, both the plants and the animals.
• 33:35
  They get their nutrients through those processes.
• 33:38
  Ultimately, it is that amazing world of microbes that is driving all life.
• 33:42
  That's the foundation of it all.
• 33:44
  It's not an inanimate dirt as it has been treated for so long.
• 33:48
  Let's just spray, throw some sand in there and some dirt, and we'll spray some chemicals on it, and voila, we'll we'll grow some plants.
• 33:54
  In fact, as Gabe Brown documents in his book from uh dirt to soil, right, which is about converting depleted soils back to rich, full of life.
• 34:04
  If you take these glyphosate sprayed soils, though, these synthetic fertilizer soils, for instance, you won't find the same microbial life.
• 34:12
  You'll find just a fraction of the amount of microbes.
• 34:14
  And one of the things he documents is that through the years since we've developed plants to be in accord not with the microbes, but with these chemical applications, we've actually made them lose their natural attributes to be able to avail themselves of those other natural processes.
• 34:33
  And we see this in studies.
• 34:34
  You know who has the healthiest human microbiome in the world, they've done studies on this?
• 34:40
  Amazon rainforest people.
• 34:42
  They probably are eating monkey brains and raw bugs and grubs, and they're feeding their microbiome.
• 34:48
  And the closer we Western people get to an urban environment replete with concrete slabs and very few trees or any soil at all, the weaker and sicker our microbiomes become.
• 35:00
  And we're finding that's linked to everything from autism to Alzheimer's to depression.
• 35:05
  I mean, more and more you see headlines all the time.
• 35:07
  This is a breakthrough.
• 35:09
  We talk about real science.
• 35:10
  It's pretty embarrassing that we humans are only now coming around to look at the omnipresent miracles of creation instead of thinking we can create better products in a lab.
• 35:23
  So that's the connection between soil.
• 35:25
  There's a direct connection between the soil and our and our microbiome.
• 35:30
  And we literally, Joel Salatin jokes that he drinks out of a cow tub.
• 35:34
  Um he's not joking.
• 35:36
  He does.
• 35:36
  And I am convinced that the reason my wife and I and our family get sick so rarely is that we're around farm animals, Amish children.
• 35:43
  They don't get sick.
• 35:44
  And there are studies showing that there are links to exposure of these microbes.
• 35:49
  They've been studying this for years.
• 35:51
  They've known this, and now we're finding out why.
• 35:53
  It's healthy microbes.
• 35:55
  That's the common part.
• 35:56
  You know, you've mentioned in passing a couple of times about glyphosate and pesticides.
• 36:02
  What about this uh pet pesticide protection bill that they're trying to get past, and it's looking more like it's going to go through that will protect the pesticide industry at the same level that the pharmaceutical industry has been protected against uh harms caused by their vaccines since 1986.
• 36:21
  And this will give the complete protection to the pesticide industry.
• 36:27
  They're already using pesticides here in America that have been banned in Europe because of how carcinogenic and uh how much problems they have with the reproductive systems of animals and humans.
• 36:39
  Are they going to get that through?
• 36:40
  And is there anything that we can do to stop it?
• 36:44
  Well, that's an interesting compound question.
• 36:47
  And so I'll give you a quicker compound answer.
• 36:49
  Um, so I'll put my lawyer's hat on.
• 36:51
  Uh so there are several different movements going on, some at the state level, some at the federal level.
• 36:56
  One of them you may be familiar with is pairing back the uh taking the teeth out of Tosca, the Toxic Substances Control Act.
• 37:04
  The EPA has pretty much shown an intention to expedite the approval of all kinds of new chemicals, including PFAS pesticides.
• 37:13
  These are endocrine disruptors.
• 37:15
  And these are not as easily to sequester.
• 37:17
  That is, you can sequester carbon dioxide, you could just grow some plants.
• 37:21
  But it's hard to take atrazine or PFAs out of groundwater.
• 37:25
  The EPA has identified over 12,000 PFAS.
• 37:28
  This, you know, people will know this from Teflon frying pans.
• 37:32
  Remember, those are those are fine for you.
• 37:33
  Just go for it.
• 37:35
  Um, we've been putting these in the environment for decades.
• 37:37
  There's a lot of money again in chemicals.
• 37:39
  Section 453 of the house appropriations bill would grant complete immunity, not just from legal liability, not just for pesticide manufacturers, but all chemical manufacturers.
• 37:53
  This includes household products, et cetera.
• 37:55
  As long as they complied with the EPA labeling program, which uh which the same bill would basically uh neutralize.
• 38:04
  And the and there's also a provision in that bill to stop the EPA from regulating sewage sludge, which they've been making some progress on.
• 38:12
  Sewage sludge a lot of times has very high levels of PFAS.
• 38:16
  And that actually gets into the grass-fed animals.
• 38:19
  So pasture-raised chickens, their PFAS and their eggs.
• 38:22
  If they're if they're pasture-raised cows, it's in their milk and their meat.
• 38:26
  This is available in about a hundred and fifty-page study that the EPA did and just finished, I think last year.
• 38:32
  So the effort is to create, yes, it's very much like the vaccine immunity, which is as Bobby Kennedy has pointed out, another lawyer.
• 38:40
  It's a really bad mix to and a moral hazard to give corporations free advertising in the case of vaccines, free mandates, and then, and then a free pass.
• 38:51
  There's no incentive for them to make safe pesticides or even be concerned as long as they jump through some regulatory hoops.
• 38:58
  And, you know, as far as you, you know, put some weak labels on there.
• 39:01
  And of course, they're in these regulatory agencies, influencing the studies adversely.
• 39:06
  There's been a recent revelation about the repeal of a study of glyphosate.
• 39:10
  Um, many of these chemicals are banned around the world.
• 39:14
  Um, and then they're manufactured there and sold back to us, including paracot, which is manufactured in China and sold to us.
• 39:21
  We we should have got rid of periquat a long time ago.
• 39:24
  So in answer to your question, I'm not sure we can stop it.
• 39:27
  But times are changing right now, and we're in the midst of a movement.
• 39:30
  Ma the Maha movement is not about vaccines as much as it's about food supplies.
• 39:35
  And if those agencies want to go ahead and stick our stick down our children's throats, heavy metals and baby food and all these pesticide residues and a new bevy of pesticides in our children's lunch boxes, then they're going to find that Zen Honeycut from moms across America and us dads and granddads are a grassroots movement, and they're going to pay for it.
• 39:56
  It's what I call whack-a-mole.
• 39:57
  So let them do it.
• 39:58
  Maybe that's what it takes.
• 40:00
  You'll notice the mainstream media don't even cover this.
• 40:03
  You cover this.
• 40:04
  The alternative media is our hope.
• 40:07
  Yeah, that's really true.
• 40:09
  You know, it's um, you know, and there are a lot of alternative, you know, we do know that more people are getting their news from podcasts and big podcasts and alternative media than from mainstream media.
• 40:20
  So we need to keep pushing those of us that have podcasts and have platforms to get this information out.
• 40:26
  So people are more and more aware.
• 40:28
  It's like once you know what you know, you can't unknow it.
• 40:32
  And this is um, you can't do anything about it.
• 40:34
  You can't change your ways if you're not even aware that you should.
• 40:38
  If you're not even aware that this is something that's important.
• 40:41
  You know, the grass and you mentioned grass fed beef.
• 40:45
  And I think that a lot of people are really looking for grass fed beef or and they're really looking towards buying local, knowing the entire food chain of where their food comes from, whether it's fruits and vegetables or whether it's meat and eggs.
• 41:01
  Um, is it really true that grass fed meat is healthier than grain fed meat?
• 41:07
  It really is.
• 41:08
  It's healthier for the environment because it doesn't use the grain cycle, which is dependent on all those chemicals that we've been discussing.
• 41:16
  When cattle are fed grain, that's all harvest that's using tractors, that's compacting the ground, it's being sprayed with glyphosate, pesticides, et cetera.
• 41:24
  So you've got rid of that from an environmental perspective.
• 41:27
  And it's also generally going to be safer because you're less likely to have the exposure to pathogens like E.
• 41:33
  coli that happens when there are large meat recalls because it's a smaller scale and it's usually done at a closer to the consumer, and it's again small farms like mine.
• 41:44
  You're not likely to have the antibiotics, and you're not likely to have the hormones that are often used in the large beef industry.
• 41:53
  But really, when you get down to it, the product itself is different.
• 41:56
  When you feed cows grain, you change the entire biology of how they function.
• 42:02
  Grass fed meat has two to four times more omega 3 fatty acids, which are really important for heart disease.
• 42:08
  It has much more CLA, conjugated linoleic acid, which is very healthy for heart disease.
• 42:14
  It has more antioxidants, it has more vitamins, it has more trace minerals, it has more choline.
• 42:20
  I think you can go through a whole list and you can easily look up this research.
• 42:25
  And it and many say it tastes better.
• 42:27
  And guess what?
• 42:28
  Young people want it.
• 42:29
  And that's why the price of beef is staying high, even though our supply is down.
• 42:33
  Normally, and remember, we remember we were told for years that meat was bad and eggs were bad and butter was bad.
• 42:39
  You better get parquet.
• 42:40
  It's not nice to fool Mother Nature, we remember.
• 42:43
  Well, that was about selling people a food substitute that that was more profitable.
• 42:47
  It was far more profitable to sell them hydrogenated fats made from vegetable refuse that you otherwise were going to have to pay to dispose of.
• 42:56
  So you literally sickened people to increase your profits.
• 43:00
  That's a perfect example right there.
• 43:01
  And we have a new food pyramid coming out with this administration, which is going to emphasize fewer carbs and more whole foods and proteins and fats.
• 43:10
  Hallelujah.
• 43:11
  So grass fed meat is at the top of that pyramid.
• 43:14
  You know, the the whole um low fat diet and to avoid all the fats and things like that.
• 43:22
  I mean, that has been that was disproven probably 20 years ago by looking at data that came out of Scandinavia, that the people that ate more fat and drank more whole milk directly from the cow that had all those good fats and everything in it, lived longer, were healthier and had lower levels of heart disease.
• 43:38
  So it's just, you know, we're finding out, John, and I think part of it is the Maha movement.
• 43:44
  I think that we're finally getting a voice to being able to say in the mainstream media, these things that have been known for a long time that have been suppressed by big industry.
• 43:54
  Um, and that because of what you said is like what's was profitable.
• 43:58
  You know, are the same things going on with European farmers as they're going on here in the US?
• 44:05
  Because, you know, I know a lot of people, I'm sure you do too, that they're very, they're they're celiac.
• 44:10
  They cannot eat any grains, they can't eat any wheat at all because of the wheat protein that causes them to have bloody stools, but they can go to Europe and eat bread in moderation and be just fine.
• 44:21
  So to the European farmers have the same problems with GMO grains and pesticides and things like we do, like corporate farmers do here in the U.S.
• 44:32
  Well, no, they don't.
• 44:33
  Uh, the Europe, the European Union has much more stringent standards, and generally they don't use a lot of these uh pesticides and glyphosate, though they do, but they use it mostly in animal feeds only.
• 44:45
  Most of their foods are just cleaner.
• 44:48
  Another aspect of that related to food and not directly with farming is that the U.S.
• 44:52
  uses a system called grass, which is generally recognized as safe.
• 44:58
  And that allows companies to put pretty much anything in your food unless it's proved to be toxic.
• 45:03
  And there are something like 10,000 food additives and chemicals that are in our processed foods as a result.
• 45:09
  Whereas in Europe, I think it's 400 are approved.
• 45:12
  So you just don't have all those additives.
• 45:15
  But there's another parallel with European farmers is they're fighting the same battle against the industrialists who say that small farms are a threat to the climate.
• 45:22
  And that's why you see battles going on in Germany, Holland, Italy, France, um, the UK, Ireland, where they want to kill 40,000 cows.
• 45:33
  Ireland went through a famine.
• 45:36
  It had to do with potatoes.
• 45:37
  And it's part of their culture.
• 45:39
  And so the more I researched that for the book, the more I realized that the situation with Europe is that they're trying to bring Europe along to what they've already done in the US.
• 45:49
  We already are largely dependent on industrial big food systems.
• 45:55
  So they're actually just exporting that to Europe.
• 45:59
  And Europeans, you know, they like their food.
• 46:01
  The Italians like their pasta, the French like their baguettes and their escargot, the Irish like their steak and their Guinness.
• 46:07
  And all of those cultures are much more tied to their food than we drive through uh happy meal culture Americans, you know, Chick-fil-A time with 50 added ingredients in a fish, a Chick-fil-A, chicken uh filet.
• 46:20
  I don't want that in my body.
• 46:22
  Then I have to eat lots of healthy food to get it out again.
• 46:25
  You know, one of the things you mentioned a lot in your book, and you you and you mentioned it just briefly in the first half of our conversation here today, was about on farm slaughter.
• 46:35
  Explain to people what that is and why you think it's a preferred way of slaughtering animals.
• 46:42
  Well, this ties in back to something I don't know that I addressed in your earlier question about other ways that they have a war on farmers.
• 46:49
  And that is in the name of safety imposing ubiquitous regulations on farmers that stifle us, that the big operations can afford the money for and the record keeping for and the inspectors for, and small farmers just can't.
• 47:01
  And we want to go out and take care of our sheep and our cows and make hay.
• 47:05
  We don't want to be having to spend inordinate amounts of time, you know, for safety regulations that are usually not really that important.
• 47:13
  They don't really have measurable results when it comes to measuring salmonella and chickens and other things.
• 47:18
  Um, but one big area of that is food processing, meat processing, slaughtering and processing of animals.
• 47:25
  In the name of health and safety, they have been crushing small farms.
• 47:28
  There are many parts of this country where you may have to wait a year or more to get your animals slaughtered.
• 47:34
  And this was a crisis during two years ago during the drought out west when farmers were being offered a pittance for their animals, but feed was so so short.
• 47:44
  There was such a shortage of feed, and it was so expensive that many of them had to take their animals to slaughter, which backed up the facilities, and they couldn't even find a place to go and they had to give them out the animals away.
• 47:55
  There are also humane animal welfare issues about trucking animals long distances.
• 48:00
  Well, over decades, we've consolidated vertically and integrated vertical, vertically and horizontally the entire meat packing industry in a way that has let the packers, and there's a there's actually an anti-uh trust action being investigated right now by the Trump administration to basically control these industries.
• 48:18
  And they largely have consolidated and control the swine and chicken industries, and they've taken a big chunk out of beef.
• 48:25
  So the reason, first and foremost that we need something like on-farm slaughter, which most states don't allow, Vermont is one that does, is that uh it allows us to be close to our processors and close to our animals and close to our food supply and close to our animals.
• 48:40
  I don't need packaged meat from far away or from Brazil.
• 48:44
  I can grow it right here, but I need to be able to slaughter it and process it in a humane and safe way.
• 48:49
  And the number one humane way to take an animal's life is without sticking it in a truck.
• 48:55
  My animals are slaughtered on the grass that they were born on.
• 48:59
  And they they die with a bullet to the head.
• 49:02
  Um, you know, halal and uh kosher traditions in Islam and Judaism, the other Abrahamic religions are built on the idea that you don't eat an animal.
• 49:13
  If you don't give reverence to God, it's uh at its slaughter and be grateful for it and ensure that it was slaughtered humanely.
• 49:19
  You have a duty, a moral duty that evaporates in large feedlots and processing facilities, but it still exists on my farm.
• 49:28
  We we have a beef hanging right now in a cooler at a processor that we slaughtered here on the farm.
• 49:34
  I don't like killing them.
• 49:35
  I get attached to them, but if I can't kill them, I can't afford to feed the rest of them.
• 49:39
  And I can't supply my neighbors with healthy food or myself.
• 49:43
  So that's that's the chain of life.
• 49:46
  You know, years ago, I met two chiropractors from Illinois, and this was when the whole grass fed beef thing was just getting started.
• 49:55
  That's how long ago this was.
• 49:56
  It was a long time ago.
• 49:57
  And they were talking about when they
• 50:00
  Raise their animals humanely and they let and they let them roam across the and be gently grain uh uh grass fed that it was when it was time for them to and they you humanely slaughtered them.
• 50:12
  They actually went to the slaughterhouse with them to make sure that they were humanely sacrificed.
• 50:18
  He said it was almost like they knew that that's what they were there for.
• 50:22
  It was peaceful.
• 50:23
  They they went gently, and he said it was like a almost a spiritual experience that you know, watching what was happening to these to these cows, like they knew that that's what they were on the planet for.
• 50:36
  And it was not disruptive, it wasn't aim, it wasn't dangerous.
• 50:39
  They weren't like getting skinned alive, like is happening in some of the meat processing plants now, and all these different things.
• 50:46
  It was just, and I've never forgotten that story.
• 50:48
  It was probably 25 years ago, maybe longer when I heard that.
• 50:51
  But I I do believe that, and I do have uh a local rancher that says similar things when he says, you know, because he's been with these cows from the day that they were born until the day that they go to the processing plant.
• 51:04
  And he said, he never sends them alone.
• 51:07
  He always sends another one with them.
• 51:08
  He said, if it wouldn't be for that, I couldn't do this job.
• 51:11
  He said, I have to make sure that they are taken care of all the way through to the end of their life.
• 51:18
  Well, that's why we do it.
• 51:19
  And I'm not sure that they go placidly.
• 51:21
  I can tell you that if you put them in a truck and you put them in a facility where they can smell the other animals, hear the other animals and smell the blood, it causes stress.
• 51:30
  And that increases the cortisol levels, particularly in swine, but also in cows.
• 51:35
  So it it toughens the meat, it decreases the quality of the meat and it exposes them potentially to pathogens that aren't present here.
• 51:43
  So, you know, there are trade-offs with everything.
• 51:46
  Uh raw milk, boy, isn't that dangerous.
• 51:48
  Actually, it's full of enzymes and nutrients that get destroyed by the pasteurization process.
• 51:53
  I drink it every day.
• 51:54
  So, similarly with meats, if you raise them healthily, they're healthier for you.
• 51:59
  And for people that are listening to this that haven't had fresh from the cow milk, you just don't, you just don't know the difference.
• 52:07
  I mean, like fresh.
• 52:08
  When I was growing up, my dad's one of my dad's sisters.
• 52:12
  Um, my dad was from Wisconsin, and one of his sisters, and they had a dairy farm, and we would go up there in the summer where there was the Ohio cousins and the Wisconsin cousins, and we would go up there in the summer.
• 52:23
  And I would, you know, the the cows would be out at pasture all day, and we we we rally them into the the barn, and then they get milked, and there was always a picture of that milk that was sat right on the dining room table that we drank straight from that.
• 52:35
  I, you know, that was six you know, 50 years ago.
• 52:38
  I still remember how wonderful that was straight from the cow.
• 52:42
  It was still even kind of warm.
• 52:44
  It was just so good, and it was just so good for you.
• 52:47
  Um, you know, in just the last couple of minutes that we have here together, John.
• 52:50
  I mean, we could talk on and on about this forever because your book is so important, The War on Farmers.
• 52:56
  It really lays all of these things out.
• 52:58
  But I'm wondering about this question.
• 53:00
  You know, farming is a science that has a lot of unknowns.
• 53:03
  The biggest unknown is the weather.
• 53:05
  You know, you just don't really, you know, it's a big gamble.
• 53:08
  It's a daily expensive gamble with the weather, and it's hard physical work.
• 53:13
  And as there's a lot to know about raising animals or raising crops.
• 53:18
  Do you think that young people should become farmers?
• 53:22
  And if you the answer to that is yes, what is the best way to get for them to get into the business?
• 53:28
  Well, jump right in.
• 53:30
  You know, the climate's warming up and everything's gonna boil.
• 53:33
  So you better get some food.
• 53:35
  Um excuse my humor.
• 53:37
  So I'm smiling because you know, in my first book, I actually devoted a whole chapter to that subject.
• 53:42
  And in this book, I also discuss it because what I find is an interesting dichotomy.
• 53:47
  Everybody knows that raising your children on a farm is the best thing you could do for them.
• 53:53
  But most parents don't want to make the sacrifice of working 365 days a year, getting in the mud and all that hard work you mentioned.
• 53:59
  It's actually extraordinarily rewarding.
• 54:01
  We have a younger generation, many of them are yearning.
• 54:05
  They know something's not quite right.
• 54:06
  They're alienated, they're isolated, especially after COVID.
• 54:10
  They're they're glued to social media and screens, and I see it happening here in Vermont and elsewhere.
• 54:16
  Now, some of them may want to work remotely, uh, making 150,000 a year as computer programmers, but then they want to pay somebody else to give them the healthy food.
• 54:23
  They can afford it, somebody else can raise it.
• 54:25
  There's a homesteading movement.
• 54:27
  There are more and more programs and niche markets.
• 54:30
  There's a growing demand for these products.
• 54:32
  So the poverty of the past does not have to chart the future for young people.
• 54:37
  They can actually make money at it.
• 54:39
  And so this is what we have to do.
• 54:42
  We have a huge transfer of wealth going on in this country very soon, with perhaps Joel Salatin says about half of all farmland is going to change hands in the next 15 years because of an aging farming population.
• 54:54
  And it's a crisis.
• 54:55
  And young people want food, as I mentioned.
• 54:57
  They want a homestead.
• 54:58
  There's a homesteading movement going on.
• 55:00
  Joel says in his writings that it takes about five years to learn all of that, because yeah, you have to learn animal care, veterinary care, uh, the weather, soil microbes, be a mechanic.
• 55:12
  You have to work a lot.
• 55:13
  You have to get what if it's a weekend?
• 55:15
  Let's just forget about this weekend thing.
• 55:17
  Just give it up.
• 55:18
  Work is life.
• 55:19
  But what people find overwhelmingly, if you talk to them and go meet farmers, is they wouldn't do it any other way.
• 55:25
  I know so many farmers that have milked cows for 50 or 60 years without missing a day often, some of them, and they miss their cows horribly.
• 55:34
  They don't know anything else.
• 55:35
  But it's not, it's not slavery, it's not work when you enjoy it and it keeps you healthy and you live a long time.
• 55:42
  And it is probably the best school for your children to raise them on a farm.
• 55:47
  So that would be my pitch for young people.
• 55:49
  And we're trying to revitalize and build more programs and better regulations to make it um just more welcoming to young people who want to become new entrants into the farming profession.
• 56:00
  So, John, where's the best?
• 56:01
  We've only got about a minute left.
• 56:03
  Where's the best way to for people to buy your book?
• 56:06
  Where's the best place for them to go and get war on farmers?
• 56:09
  It's available on Amazon.
• 56:11
  It's actually uh it can be pre-purchased now.
• 56:13
  It's coming out, I think in February.
• 56:15
  Uh, and I'm also available on my Substack, which is called Small Farm Republic, where I republish a lot of my work, which is broader than just farming issues, but that tends to be a recurrent theme that I write a lot about food and farming.
• 56:30
  So it's on Amazon.
• 56:31
  It's called the War on Farmers, and we have to stop this war on farmers, and we have to actually support and nurture our small farms because everybody in the city depends on a country mouse with a milk bucket or a cow to feed them.
• 56:45
  We all depend on it.
• 56:46
  Well, thank you so much, John Clark, for being with here today.
• 56:50
  And I'm going to close out quickly here today and say that I'll close with one of my favorite verses from the Bible.
• 56:55
  I close all my podcasts with, whether they are live or prerecorded, which is Romans 12, 12.
• 57:00
  Rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble and be persistent in prayer.
• 57:04
  Lean into God, he will never let you down.
• 57:06
  We'll see you uh tomorrow, right here at the same place, same time, AmericaOut Loud.news and iHeartRadio.
• 57:12
  You can find previous conversations on your favorite um subs, your favorite um um podcast platforms, and you can follow me on X and Instagram at Busy Dr.
• 57:23
  T.
• 57:23
  Thank you for being here.
• 57:24
  Have a great rest of your day, everybody.
• 57:26
  Goodbye and God bless.