Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Outrage as Slender Man murder movie targeting young girls to hit theaters after real-life girl stabbing

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Outrage as Slender Man murder movie targeting young girls to hit theaters after real-life girl stabbing · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: to Nancy's Beats dot com Today. Crime Stories with Nancy
1:06
Speaker 1: Grace on Sirius x M Triumph Channel one two. It
1:12
Speaker 1: was a plot six months in the making. When investigators
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Speaker 1: asked why they did it, they both had the same answer.
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Speaker 1: Slender Man, a twelve year old girl lured into a
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Speaker 1: densely wooded area, then stabbed nineteen times, told don't move
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Speaker 1: too much, you'll die more quickly and be quiet, and
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Speaker 1: left there to bleed out dead a twelve year old girl.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:51
Speaker 1: being with us. Who Who was the perpetrator who stabbed
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Speaker 1: a little girl nine times, coming less than one millimeter
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Speaker 1: from her heart, her blood draining out of her body?
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Speaker 1: Whose was the last face she saw that night? Her
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Speaker 1: two twelve year old friends that suit her two twelve
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Speaker 1: year old little friend girls from school, lure her to
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Speaker 1: spend the night party, then lure her into densely wooded
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Speaker 1: area at night, sneaking out of the house so the
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Speaker 1: parents can't hear, but they know they were carrying a knife.
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Speaker 1: We have learned that a plea negotiation has gone down
2:47
Speaker 1: and a jury has agreed that one of the two
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Speaker 1: twelve year old girls is going to do time in
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Speaker 1: a mental institution on attempted second degree homicide. The other
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Speaker 1: who wielded the knife still has not been resolved. What happened?
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Speaker 1: Joining me, Mary Hopkins, Crime Stories contributing investigative reporter, Mary,
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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Joining me is Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst
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Speaker 1: out of l A. And also with me Ashley Wilcot,
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Speaker 1: child advocate to Mary Hopkins, how does a sci fi character,
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Speaker 1: a creepy, tall, spidery dude, deathly pale, kind of a
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Speaker 1: blur for a face dressed in a black suit, named Slenderman,
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Speaker 1: what does he have to do with this attack? Well, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: Slenderman said, he's a fictional character. He was born on
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Speaker 1: the internet in a photoshop challenge back in two thousand nine,
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Speaker 1: and many children were so enamored with him. Some thought
4:02
Speaker 1: he was a ruthless killer, others thought he was like
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Speaker 1: a guardian angel. And for the girls involved in this
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Speaker 1: horrific crime, they believed that if they did not kill
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Speaker 1: their best friend, slender Man was going to harm their families.
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Speaker 1: And that's what led to this. They set it up,
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Speaker 1: as you said. They they invited her over for a sleepover,
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Speaker 1: They went into the woods to play hide and seek,
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Speaker 1: and then they stamped her nineteen times. All these other
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Speaker 1: slender Man you know, they think Dr Bethany Marshall, as
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Speaker 1: the Lord goes that they can then go live with
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Speaker 1: slender Man in his mansion. And these girls apparently believed
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Speaker 1: that they would go after they kill someone, that's the
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Speaker 1: price you pay to get to go live with slender Man.
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Speaker 1: They believe that Slenderman lived in the Nicolette National Forest
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Speaker 1: there in Wisconsin. I mean, they're out in this beautiful
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Speaker 1: rural area where you think there's no crime at all,
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Speaker 1: and then these two girls try to murder their twelve
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Speaker 1: year old little quote best friend. It's so hard to
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Speaker 1: unwind the motivations in a case like this because the
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Speaker 1: reporters saying they believed that this was all because of
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Speaker 1: slender Man. I mean, is it really or is it
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Speaker 1: for mental health? Or is it that these girls lived
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Speaker 1: more in fantasy rather than reality. So there's there's saying
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Speaker 1: neurotics build castles in the sky, psychotics live in them.
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Speaker 1: You know, there's a difference between twelve year olds who
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Speaker 1: are you know, fantasizing about some slender Man character and
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Speaker 1: twelve year old who believe that slender Man is living
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Speaker 1: in the woods and they're going to go live with
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Speaker 1: him if they kill somebody. I mean, I'm really concerned
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Speaker 1: about just how much these two twelve year olds were
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Speaker 1: engaged in a whole fantasy world about slender Man. And also,
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Speaker 1: you know, it takes slender Man out of it. What
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Speaker 1: was going on in these girls minds? I mean, these
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Speaker 1: are twelve year olds who are homicidal. What's going on
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Speaker 1: in their families, what's going on in their school life?
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Speaker 1: I mean, what's going on in terms of their mental health?
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Speaker 1: These girls wanted to kill their best friend. I don't
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Speaker 1: think slender Man. I think envy. I think that for
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Speaker 1: some reason, they didn't like this little twelve year old.
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Speaker 1: Maybe she was more beautiful than them, maybe she had um,
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Speaker 1: she was smarter than them, maybe she was more admired
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Speaker 1: by her schoolmates. Or on the other hand, maybe she
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Speaker 1: was more fragile and vulnerable so they targeted her. But
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Speaker 1: I think we should take slender Man out of it
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Speaker 1: and think about what all the other motivations for homicide
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Speaker 1: could be. Take a listen to this caller on Big
6:53
Speaker 1: Bend at the dead End just south of Riveraree six
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Speaker 1: four six nine. He came up on a twelve real
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Speaker 1: email two peers of being stabbed. She appears to be
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Speaker 1: with stab stabbed. Okay, sorry, still there, yes, hi, sir,
7:10
Speaker 1: so is are you with this tubbet female? Yea. She
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Speaker 1: says she's having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed
7:16
Speaker 1: multiple times. They have multiple times. Okay, sir, are you
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Speaker 1: with her right now? Is she awake? She's awake. Is
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Speaker 1: she breathing? She said she can take shallow breath. She's alert. Okay,
7:30
Speaker 1: stay with her. We're studying the police department. Don't hang up, Okay,
7:34
Speaker 1: hold on, don't hang up. Okay, Okay, Well that's just
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Speaker 1: mis setting, officer. Is there any assailant around? I didn't
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Speaker 1: even look. I don't see anybody. It's okay, stay stay
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Speaker 1: right with her, sir. Is she on the ground or
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Speaker 1: she standing up? No, she's laying on the grass. Laying
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Speaker 1: on the grass. Stay right with her. Just let me
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Speaker 1: know if she is remaining conscious or not. Okay, okay.
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Speaker 1: Is there any bleeding going on? Her clothing has got
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Speaker 1: blood on it. Sheryl McCollum, look at the the brutality
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Speaker 1: of the attack on this little girl. If a bicyclist
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Speaker 1: hadn't come along and found her, she'd be dead right now,
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Speaker 1: no question. That last bab wound was so close to
8:19
Speaker 1: her heart. Nancy, it was just a millimeter away. But
8:22
Speaker 1: again I agree with Dr Bessany's the crime scene itself
8:25
Speaker 1: tells you a lot. So they coaxed her over. They
8:28
Speaker 1: take her in the woods, so again it's not in
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Speaker 1: the house, it's not near where other people are gonna be.
8:34
Speaker 1: And they thought she was dead when they left her.
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Speaker 1: They thought that was it and she was done. If
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Speaker 1: this is where my investigation, I wouldn't want to start
8:42
Speaker 1: with whose idea was at first? Forget slender Man. Of
8:45
Speaker 1: those two perpetrators, it was somebody's idea first, and you
8:49
Speaker 1: work back which from her. Well, we know that one
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Speaker 1: of the girls did the stabbing and the other I
8:55
Speaker 1: guess to say it legally and legally would be aided
8:59
Speaker 1: and embedded. But this is the thing, isn't it true?
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Speaker 1: Mary Hopkins? They planned this for months, very clearly. There
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Speaker 1: were notes at school, there were phone calls, there were
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Speaker 1: massive searches online. They lived online looking at Slenderman lore.
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Speaker 1: I mean, how nobody noticed And that was one of
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Speaker 1: those things that came up in the in the courtroom
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Speaker 1: when the girls were there. It's like, how did the
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Speaker 1: parents not How are they not aware of what was
9:28
Speaker 1: going on? They knew what they were doing. They they
9:31
Speaker 1: had a mission. They were going to kill their friends.
9:34
Speaker 1: It was all for thunder Man. And then even in court,
9:38
Speaker 1: Morgan Geyser told the judge that well, she ended up
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Speaker 1: having to stab her because her friend couldn't do it.
9:43
Speaker 1: So she said, so I did it, and it was
9:45
Speaker 1: so a matter of fact, it was so like it
9:48
Speaker 1: was just what I had to do. So I did it.
9:50
Speaker 1: You know, it's incredible to me that it's gone down
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Speaker 1: this way. Take a listen to what the girls say.
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Speaker 1: We have obtained actual lease interrogation sound listen Flin flinder
10:04
Speaker 1: Man flender Man, and he as some tendrils that are
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Speaker 1: very sharp. You mean your dreams or where you seas? Oh,
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Speaker 1: I didn't even dream number So did you think that
10:18
Speaker 1: you actually had to kill somebody to do it? He like,
10:22
Speaker 1: for real? So when you guys were walking you thought
10:25
Speaker 1: you saw slender profession was after Gonna stubbed her son?
10:33
Speaker 1: How did you get to night from Anissa? She sort
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Speaker 1: of open in my innders and then I didn't know
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Speaker 1: what I did. It was just sort of just happened.
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Speaker 1: It didn't feel like anything, It was like air. So
10:50
Speaker 1: he said that we were going to go for watching
10:54
Speaker 1: people who trust you become very vullable and a whisport
10:58
Speaker 1: of sad. You just heard the girls, the twelve year
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Speaker 1: old girls in their police interrogation, trying to explain who
11:04
Speaker 1: Slenderman is. But listen to the parents, I mean, you know,
11:09
Speaker 1: out to you, Cheryl. I got freaked out when John
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Speaker 1: David was constantly playing Minecraft or is I like to say,
11:16
Speaker 1: to irritate him Minecraft her but Minecraft, I might get
11:19
Speaker 1: off Minecraft. Now he's playing some other game. And Lucy
11:23
Speaker 1: went from cat videos to what are the guinea pig videos?
11:29
Speaker 1: Now she's on gymnastic videos. I'm constantly sneaking up on
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Speaker 1: them to see what they're watching. Did nobody notice they
11:38
Speaker 1: were obsessively looking at Slenderman? Cheryl McCollum. Probably not in needthy.
11:43
Speaker 1: The reality is a lot of other games, including Minecraft,
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Speaker 1: have a you know, kind of a little ode to Slenderman.
11:50
Speaker 1: They have a character based on him as well. So
11:53
Speaker 1: a lot of times parents, even though they know he's
11:55
Speaker 1: playing Minecraft, they have no idea there's any reference to
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Speaker 1: slender Mean. Other parents would not even know who that was. Period.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to what the parents still ABC s
12:06
Speaker 1: G M A. Christie. I know that when you when
12:09
Speaker 1: you watch the interrogation videos. Both your daughter and the
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Speaker 1: other young girls seemed to believe that Slenderman real. That
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Speaker 1: there was no difference between fact and fiction for them
12:20
Speaker 1: during the interview tapes that we've seen. Um, they thoroughly
12:27
Speaker 1: believed that Slenderman was you and they wanted to prove
12:31
Speaker 1: that he was real. And and you had no indication
12:35
Speaker 1: of this at home, that this was like something that
12:38
Speaker 1: she was obsessed with or couldn't stop watching. We've never
12:43
Speaker 1: seen her watch videos or read stories or hey, look
12:47
Speaker 1: what I found on the Internet or anything. She was
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Speaker 1: just typical. She was a typical twelve year old at
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Speaker 1: that point. You didn't think she had any to the
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Speaker 1: other three children. She didn't show any others signs of
13:06
Speaker 1: disbelieves to Dr Bethany, Marshall's psychoanalysts joining me out of
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Speaker 1: l A, Dr Bethany, I hope you're sitting down. In fact,
13:15
Speaker 1: you better lay down for this one. Take a listen
13:18
Speaker 1: as the girls are asked if they are sorry they
13:23
Speaker 1: did it. I thought about, marshallly gonna be where you
13:30
Speaker 1: didn't graph that you can decide that you don't want
13:33
Speaker 1: to feel. It's easier if you decide not to feel
13:39
Speaker 1: you know what. To me, it's very clear to Cheryl
13:46
Speaker 1: McCullum joining me that these girls planned this. This was
13:52
Speaker 1: first charged as attempted murder in the first homicide in
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Speaker 1: the first The plea they're taking is to attempt and
14:01
Speaker 1: murder second. But this is so orchestrated and planned. There's
14:08
Speaker 1: no way that they were mentally ill. They may have
14:11
Speaker 1: believed in Slenderman, but they planned this down to the stabbing.
14:18
Speaker 1: They planned it. They took great time for months. They
14:22
Speaker 1: said no, they said text messages, They met with each other,
14:26
Speaker 1: They picked their victim, They invited her over under this
14:31
Speaker 1: great you know, blanket of oh we're gonna have to
14:33
Speaker 1: spend the night party. Everything they did was could coax
14:37
Speaker 1: her over to kill her. So again, law enforcement would
14:43
Speaker 1: go back and they would look through how many times
14:45
Speaker 1: did they mention slender Man? Was it really about him
14:48
Speaker 1: or was it really something they divide? Take a listen,
14:52
Speaker 1: everybody to actually hearing one of the attackers, he's twelve
14:58
Speaker 1: year old little girls explain how this brutal stabbing nineteen
15:03
Speaker 1: stabs on a twelve year old little girl. They're so
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Speaker 1: called best friend that's lured into the woods at night,
15:12
Speaker 1: stabbed repeatedly and left to bleed out dead. This is
15:17
Speaker 1: how they say it went down, because the thing with
15:23
Speaker 1: flowers and all that. Okay, I can right here. I
15:27
Speaker 1: put her over the lay. She's like now, and then
15:34
Speaker 1: I said right and he run her hand. She's like that,
15:39
Speaker 1: and then she started complaining that she could breathe going,
15:41
Speaker 1: and I got off her because she would make her
15:43
Speaker 1: round of noise. Okay, okay, and what happened that? And
15:50
Speaker 1: then told morning that's nudding down and then she said
15:53
Speaker 1: t her and out at her to Ashley Willcott joining
15:57
Speaker 1: us child advocate. They were picking flowers and then suddenly
16:02
Speaker 1: she's bleeding out. Nancill think that the public needs to know.
16:09
Speaker 1: This means there's so much more to this story. These
16:15
Speaker 1: families should have had knowledge of what these two were planning.
16:21
Speaker 1: Like you said, there should be supervision of whatever. Kids,
16:26
Speaker 1: especially twelve twelve twelve year old grains are scientifically proven
16:31
Speaker 1: to not be fully developed. That doesn't happen until young twenties.
16:36
Speaker 1: They do not make good decisions. They have to have
16:39
Speaker 1: guidance instructure. I do not understand how they could get
16:43
Speaker 1: from playing Slenderman or knowing a Slenderman to a deliberate,
16:49
Speaker 1: planned out, horrific attack and murder. Potential murder she survived, thankfully,
16:55
Speaker 1: potential murder of another, of another teenager. It's beyond comprehension
17:01
Speaker 1: to me. I mean, listen to this. Listen to this,
17:03
Speaker 1: Dr Bethany. I'm going to reiterate what she said. She
17:07
Speaker 1: was picking flowers. I was standing right here. I pushed
17:10
Speaker 1: her over. She was like this now, and I sat
17:14
Speaker 1: here on her and she started complaining she couldn't breathe.
17:18
Speaker 1: So I got up because she was making a lot
17:20
Speaker 1: of noise. I told Morgan she wasn't laying down, and
17:23
Speaker 1: she said, tackle her and I'll stab her. That is
17:26
Speaker 1: what Wire says. Uh. The three involved a Nissa Wire,
17:33
Speaker 1: Morgan Geyser, and the little girl the victim in this case, Peyton.
17:39
Speaker 1: I mean, this happens out in the middle of Wisconsin,
17:43
Speaker 1: where you think that your child is safe. Did you
17:47
Speaker 1: hear those words, Bethany. Instead of being upset the little
17:51
Speaker 1: girl couldn't couldn't breathe, she says, she was making too
17:53
Speaker 1: much noise complaining, so we tackled her so I could
17:56
Speaker 1: stabb Nancy. These are the kinds of words we hear
18:00
Speaker 1: from male perpetrators. That's what I keep thinking about, Like,
18:03
Speaker 1: if these were two boys, I don't want to be sexist,
18:06
Speaker 1: but it seems like it would be easier to understand
18:08
Speaker 1: because what we see with young men who commit crimes
18:12
Speaker 1: is it usually there's like a male ringleader who's very sociopathic,
18:16
Speaker 1: and then he recruits younger, weaker males to kind of
18:20
Speaker 1: follow his bidding. But the twist here is it's two girls.
18:25
Speaker 1: So who was the ringleader? Who was she a sociopath?
18:30
Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a twelve year old sociopath?
18:34
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a severe corruption of conscience. I
18:37
Speaker 1: keep going back to what I know about young girls
18:41
Speaker 1: who commit crimes. You know, in this age range, that
18:44
Speaker 1: envy seems to be such a strong motivator. You know
18:47
Speaker 1: that they find another girl who's prettier, who's more popular,
18:52
Speaker 1: who's who's who's well liked, has, you know, gets better
18:56
Speaker 1: grades and all of that, and they can't stand the
19:00
Speaker 1: fact that that girl is doing better than them, so
19:02
Speaker 1: then they try to deface her in some way or
19:05
Speaker 1: disfigure or obliterate her. And I would really kind of
19:09
Speaker 1: want to know more about that if I was the
19:12
Speaker 1: interviewer in this case to try to figure out what
19:15
Speaker 1: were all those negative emotions towards their victim. Take a listen.
19:20
Speaker 1: So we told her we're gonna get help, but we
19:25
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Speaker 1: It has worked for me super Beats. Thanks. Eventually, we
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Speaker 1: are reporting from Wisconsin to twelve year old girls lure
21:30
Speaker 1: their so called best friend, also twelve, into the woods
21:34
Speaker 1: at night, only to stab her nearly twenty times, leaving
21:38
Speaker 1: her for dead, and now they are apparently escaping jail time.
21:44
Speaker 1: One of the girls has already sealed her fate. She
21:48
Speaker 1: has pled guilty but mentally ill, and a jury then
21:53
Speaker 1: agreed she is looking at time and a mental hospital.
21:59
Speaker 1: She will be released when she's thirty five. Now, this
22:03
Speaker 1: is the girl who lures twelve year old Peyton Lawtner
22:07
Speaker 1: to her planned death. So what about it, Cheryl McCallum.
22:12
Speaker 1: She's going to be walking free at age thirty five
22:16
Speaker 1: after this brutal attack, and she's spending the time probably
22:20
Speaker 1: let's see online um, doing origami, crocheang, playing ping pong.
22:27
Speaker 1: She may even finish high school in college. I don't
22:31
Speaker 1: know what I think about this. I can guarantee you this, CHERRYL. McCallum.
22:34
Speaker 1: I'm not inviting her home to dinner when she gets
22:36
Speaker 1: out today, age thirty five, not at all. And Nancy,
22:39
Speaker 1: nothing good is gonna come with this. You know it
22:41
Speaker 1: as well as I do. We just celebrated Dr King Holiday,
22:45
Speaker 1: Dr King as you know, he would stabbed that his
22:47
Speaker 1: assailant went to a mental institution. They don't go there
22:50
Speaker 1: to be quote cured. And you know the other problem is, Nancy,
22:54
Speaker 1: there's a movie coming out. Oh my stars, Yes, the
22:58
Speaker 1: movie coming out. Ho hold on, whoa, whoa wa wait
23:02
Speaker 1: wait wait, I'm glad you reminded me of the movie.
23:05
Speaker 1: I'm stunned about the movie. And the victim's father has
23:09
Speaker 1: launched a petition to stop the movie. But I want
23:14
Speaker 1: to complete this part. One of the girls has now
23:19
Speaker 1: been allowed to play guilty but mentally ill She's going
23:23
Speaker 1: to be in a mental facility for about twenty years.
23:28
Speaker 1: That's what it boils down to. The other is set
23:31
Speaker 1: for a little more time, but the same the same
23:34
Speaker 1: general gist. She'll have guilty but mentally ill. She'll do
23:39
Speaker 1: time in a mental facility home, and she'll be out
23:44
Speaker 1: when she's about forty. I want to talk about the movie,
23:49
Speaker 1: the Slenderman movie that the victims family is totally against.
23:55
Speaker 1: To Mary Hopkins, what can you tell me about the
23:58
Speaker 1: Slenderman movie? Get ready for this one because Sony Pictures
24:01
Speaker 1: has already released the first trailer for Slenderman, and obviously
24:04
Speaker 1: it's based on the Internet Boogeyman. It has screaming teenage girls,
24:09
Speaker 1: a girl stabbing herself in the face with a scalpel,
24:13
Speaker 1: and a voiceover describing how slender Man gets in your
24:16
Speaker 1: head like a virus. There's been a petition you mentioned that,
24:20
Speaker 1: Bill Wyer and niece's father, he is furious with Sony Pictures.
24:24
Speaker 1: He's calling it extremely distasteful of his All it is
24:27
Speaker 1: is doing is extending the pain of the three families involved,
24:31
Speaker 1: and people are getting on board, but Sony is moving ahead.
24:35
Speaker 1: They are ready to release this film in May. The
24:37
Speaker 1: slender Man movie is a fictional story about teens who
24:41
Speaker 1: are quote infected by Slenderman. And this first trailer for
24:47
Speaker 1: the Sony Pictures horror film slender Man is out, and
24:54
Speaker 1: it's it's it's shocking, and it's upsetting. It's popularizing a tragedy,
25:00
Speaker 1: and it's capitalizing on the near death of a twelve
25:05
Speaker 1: year old girl. To you, Dr Bethany Marshall, I don't
25:09
Speaker 1: understand a movie about this. I don't either, especially because
25:13
Speaker 1: I was watching the movie trailer prior to the show
25:15
Speaker 1: and the trailer seems to have a call to action,
25:21
Speaker 1: you know, as if they want teenage girls to go
25:25
Speaker 1: out and commit crimes. That that's what I think is
25:28
Speaker 1: so scary. And we know that young women, girls are
25:33
Speaker 1: very impressionable, and so why put out a movie like
25:37
Speaker 1: this that could influence young people to commit crime. The
25:40
Speaker 1: tagline is, hey, Slenderman gets in your head like a virus.
25:45
Speaker 1: And in every trailer, in every picture, you see young
25:49
Speaker 1: girls just like the girls in the real case. To you, actually, Wilcott,
25:55
Speaker 1: this is so wrong. It'll be over my dead body
25:58
Speaker 1: that my children say this. Oh God, it's so wrong.
26:00
Speaker 1: It's so wrong, and part of it is. It promotes
26:03
Speaker 1: and encourages these behaviors and young girls, like we said,
26:07
Speaker 1: twelve year olds, kids who some parents are gonna let
26:09
Speaker 1: it see Let them see it, Nancy. Some parents don't
26:12
Speaker 1: at all supervise what their kids see, right, so they're
26:15
Speaker 1: gonna see it, and they're impressionable. Their their brains are
26:18
Speaker 1: at a place, but they don't need to see this
26:21
Speaker 1: kind of activity promoted. The trailer is very scary. I
26:26
Speaker 1: don't see how this is appropriate for children, and think
26:29
Speaker 1: I think there needs to be some real discussions with
26:32
Speaker 1: some young people because, as you will know, one parents
26:35
Speaker 1: start demanding something to be taken away, they want to
26:38
Speaker 1: do it even more. So this movie is gonna have
26:40
Speaker 1: a whole lot of people out front unless we just
26:42
Speaker 1: have some real honist conversation. But can you tell me
26:45
Speaker 1: to Marry Hopkins about an online petition? Yes, Nancy, five
26:49
Speaker 1: thousand people have already signed it and the number is growing.
26:52
Speaker 1: Even the accused parents are saying the same thing, this
26:55
Speaker 1: is horrific. They don't they don't want this movie to
26:57
Speaker 1: come out there, doing everything they can to stop it.
27:00
Speaker 1: You're trying to get people to sign the petition, But
27:03
Speaker 1: I said, Sony is already moving ahead. And when you
27:05
Speaker 1: even when you watch the trailer, it's it is, it's frightening,
27:09
Speaker 1: and it's the fear is that it's going to encourage
27:12
Speaker 1: like like we've already said it's going to encourage other teenagers.
27:15
Speaker 1: Well it will, You're right, Mary, it will. It's going
27:19
Speaker 1: on six thousand people who have already signed an online
27:22
Speaker 1: petition complaining opposing Sony Pictures planned release of the movie
27:28
Speaker 1: slender Man, the character who seemingly inspired to walk show
27:34
Speaker 1: a little girls just twelve years old to try to
27:38
Speaker 1: stab their sixth great little friend to death. The trailer
27:43
Speaker 1: has just been released. It's supposed to come out in May.
27:47
Speaker 1: I mean, what what will people do to make a dollar?
27:55
Speaker 1: Is it worth it? People from all over the US
27:57
Speaker 1: and other countries have gone online. The petition was started
28:03
Speaker 1: by Alison Paris and she started Alison started the petition
28:08
Speaker 1: at petition at Care Too. All over the world people
28:12
Speaker 1: are joining in to oppose this. Do you really think
28:16
Speaker 1: it's going to work, Cheryl? No, Nancy. I think there's
28:20
Speaker 1: too much money to be made, and I take there's
28:23
Speaker 1: too much fascination between young teenagers. What about it? Dr
28:26
Speaker 1: Bethany Any hope that this petition is going to stop
28:29
Speaker 1: it not at all. If if anything, it's going to
28:33
Speaker 1: encourage the release of this movie, because these producers are
28:37
Speaker 1: going to say, hey, there's this groundswell of interest in
28:41
Speaker 1: this movie. It might be negative publicity, but it is publicity.
28:45
Speaker 1: So we're going to have more viewers than ever watch
28:48
Speaker 1: our movie. You know, Um, there have been so many
28:51
Speaker 1: ups and downs and twists and turns to this case.
28:55
Speaker 1: But what we know two girls are looking at it
29:01
Speaker 1: twenty or more years in a mindal institution because of
29:06
Speaker 1: Slenderman's effect on them. Now, one of their moms insists
29:11
Speaker 1: that her daughter was schizophrenic. However, there was no indication
29:18
Speaker 1: of that nor evidence of that before the attacks, at
29:21
Speaker 1: least brought to the authorities. But whatever the truth is,
29:25
Speaker 1: slender Man played a major role in the brutal attack
29:29
Speaker 1: of a twelve year old little girl. And somebody is
29:33
Speaker 1: going to make a lot of money off the slender
29:36
Speaker 1: Man movie. But I can promise you this, it won't
29:39
Speaker 1: come out of my pocket. I want to pause and
29:42
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Speaker 1: meets legal legal Zoom, thank you not only for what
31:09
Speaker 1: you do for Americans across the country every day, but
31:13
Speaker 1: for being our partner. And now we travel to Tucson, Arizona,
31:19
Speaker 1: an infant, a newborn baby has been found abandoned at
31:23
Speaker 1: the airport. Officials still don't know the identity, but they
31:28
Speaker 1: have confirmed that the baby was found there at the
31:32
Speaker 1: Tucson Airport. I've been in it many many times, Paul
31:35
Speaker 1: Chambers joining me, investigative reporter and journalist. Paul, what do
31:39
Speaker 1: we know right now? Well, Nancy, we know that an
31:42
Speaker 1: airport employee found the newborn infant in a restroom that
31:47
Speaker 1: was ahead of the secured area. It was near the
31:50
Speaker 1: car rental counters, and it was about nine thirty Sunday
31:54
Speaker 1: night that the child was found a clean wrapped and
31:58
Speaker 1: left on a change table in the restroom. And UH
32:02
Speaker 1: at this point they're looking at the security video to
32:06
Speaker 1: see if they can find any clues as to whether
32:09
Speaker 1: or not the baby was born in the restroom or
32:13
Speaker 1: brought into it. And they also would like to identify
32:16
Speaker 1: the mother. UH not necessarily to arrest her, because the
32:21
Speaker 1: state has a UH Safe babyhave in law that allows
32:28
Speaker 1: a mother to drop an infant off UH seventy two
32:33
Speaker 1: hours or younger without fear of prosecution. However, you have
32:38
Speaker 1: to go to a hospital, find an ambulance, or to
32:41
Speaker 1: any of many authorized areas to drop that infant off.
32:45
Speaker 1: You can't just leave it in a restroom at the airport. Uh.
32:49
Speaker 1: And so they want to find the mother too, maybe
32:51
Speaker 1: you know, ascertain whether she's okay, whether she needs any help.
32:55
Speaker 1: And the boy we're told is healthy and is being
32:58
Speaker 1: checked out at a hospital and doesn't appear to have
33:01
Speaker 1: any problems. Joining me. Paul Chambers, investigative reporter, Cheryl McCullum,
33:06
Speaker 1: Director of the Cold Case Institute, crime scene expert, Dr
33:10
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts joining us out of l A, and
33:14
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, child advocate. I always look, Cheryl McCullum back
33:20
Speaker 1: at the facts, because I feel that the facts unlock
33:24
Speaker 1: the mysteries to the case. One thing that really jumped
33:28
Speaker 1: out at me for those of you just joining us,
33:30
Speaker 1: an infant child, a baby boy. We don't know how, oh,
33:34
Speaker 1: but we think a newborn has been found abandoned at
33:38
Speaker 1: the Tucson airports. So far, no one has claimed the baby. Cheryl,
33:42
Speaker 1: what struck me? And I'm gonna have to go to
33:44
Speaker 1: Bethany on this as well. The baby is perfectly clean,
33:48
Speaker 1: wrapped up in a blanket and left on a changing table.
33:53
Speaker 1: That speaks to me, that tells me something. Cheryl McCullum, Oh,
33:57
Speaker 1: it speaks to me, volumes. He was playing, he was healthy,
34:02
Speaker 1: he was well cared for. Just because you love the
34:05
Speaker 1: baby does not mean you're able to care for the baby.
34:09
Speaker 1: So it seems to me this person left him where
34:12
Speaker 1: another woman would find him. Where he's you know, safe
34:16
Speaker 1: on that tables, trapped in that table. Um, he's unharmed,
34:19
Speaker 1: he's warm, he's been fed. So again, this person seemed,
34:24
Speaker 1: just like the law says, they're either unable or unwilling
34:27
Speaker 1: to care for him. Doesn't mean they wanted to hurt
34:30
Speaker 1: him or didn't love him. I think you're right. It's
34:31
Speaker 1: still why am I always the bad one? Dr Bethany? Yeah,
34:38
Speaker 1: you love him, but you leave him alone on a
34:41
Speaker 1: bathroom table in an airport where airports are notorious for
34:48
Speaker 1: child trafficking. Hello, see I agree with you, nanth This
34:54
Speaker 1: is one of the few times I've ever disagreed with
34:57
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum because when she said safe and hell feet
35:00
Speaker 1: on the changing table, my first thought was, well, what
35:03
Speaker 1: if the baby falls off? What if a predator comes
35:06
Speaker 1: into the bathroom? What if? What if? What if? I
35:09
Speaker 1: mean an airport is one of the least safe places,
35:12
Speaker 1: as you just said. And there's something about the fact
35:15
Speaker 1: that the baby appears to have been attended to and
35:19
Speaker 1: cared for prior to this that actually makes me wonder
35:23
Speaker 1: about the mother as well. Maybe because I'm a mental
35:26
Speaker 1: health expert, I'm thinking, did something happen to the mother?
35:29
Speaker 1: I mean, is there something you know, what mother leaves
35:33
Speaker 1: their baby and these kinds of circumstances. So I'm thinking,
35:37
Speaker 1: you know, was the mother high on drugs by polar
35:41
Speaker 1: Was there something that made the mother so compromised that
35:45
Speaker 1: she just walked away from the baby. Because if you're
35:49
Speaker 1: coaching enough to care for a baby, you're coaching enough
35:53
Speaker 1: to leave the baby in a safer place. And that's
35:56
Speaker 1: that to me, those are the facts that don't quite
35:59
Speaker 1: stack up. Well, yeah, I mean, Cheryl McCollum, hold on,
36:03
Speaker 1: hold on his sister, you want to tell me you
36:06
Speaker 1: left one of your children alone on a changing table? Ever?
36:10
Speaker 1: Never just let say yes no, that'd say yes no.
36:14
Speaker 1: What human trafficking is a syre handed off? Whoa whoa,
36:19
Speaker 1: whoa whoa. You're saying you never once left your child
36:24
Speaker 1: alone on a changing table. There were the two times
36:27
Speaker 1: in my life. I turned away from the bed in
36:31
Speaker 1: our apartment in New York to get a towel to
36:33
Speaker 1: change the children. Both times they jumped fell split off
36:38
Speaker 1: the bed. When my back was turned twenty seconds to
36:41
Speaker 1: get a towel, they both fall off the bed. I'm
36:45
Speaker 1: of course, it's just before I have to go to work.
36:47
Speaker 1: I'm out in the streets screaming and crying and snodding
36:51
Speaker 1: for a cab to get to an emergency room. Okay,
36:55
Speaker 1: that does. It never fails. So you wisely never turned
37:00
Speaker 1: your back. But you're saying, oh, the mom loved him
37:03
Speaker 1: so much because she bathed them. We wrapped him in
37:05
Speaker 1: a blanket and left him on a table in an airport.
37:09
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on. Airports are hubs for human trafficking,
37:16
Speaker 1: especially of children, children being transported into forced labor or exploitation.
37:23
Speaker 1: Every country in the world affected by traffickers, and again,
37:29
Speaker 1: for so many very obvious reasons. Airports are the hubs
37:35
Speaker 1: of child trafficking. But you say, Cheryl, she loved the baby.
37:41
Speaker 1: Now I think you should revise your opinions. Nancy. What
37:45
Speaker 1: human trafficking, as you will know, is like a science.
37:50
Speaker 1: I mean, they hand that baby off like a a
37:51
Speaker 1: time during the full forty relay. So this child, if
37:56
Speaker 1: it were somebody that just happened to go into labor
37:58
Speaker 1: and have the baby in the bathroom, they were certainly
38:00
Speaker 1: prepared because that baby was cleaned up, that baby was
38:03
Speaker 1: put in new clothes, and that baby they had it,
38:05
Speaker 1: they had a blanket. This seems it has the feel
38:09
Speaker 1: that somebody wanted this baby to be found and they
38:13
Speaker 1: had to leave again, so they were in too fine
38:16
Speaker 1: and they either rented a car and went back to
38:18
Speaker 1: college or went back home. Just does not have the
38:21
Speaker 1: feel that this baby was harmed. But this was a
38:24
Speaker 1: baby that was born to a drug ad They would
38:26
Speaker 1: know by looking at this child that he was born
38:28
Speaker 1: of a drug addict. He wasn't pre me he wasn't sick,
38:31
Speaker 1: he wasn't unhealthy, he wasn't harmed. This is a baby
38:35
Speaker 1: that was born it appears to somebody that was healthy
38:39
Speaker 1: and willing to let somebody else care for him. And
38:43
Speaker 1: this is well, if they're so willing. Had you just
38:46
Speaker 1: heard you just heard Paul Chambers talk about safe babyhaveing loss,
38:51
Speaker 1: which means up to a certain point, you can drop
38:54
Speaker 1: your baby at a fire station, a police station, a hospital.
38:57
Speaker 1: But they've got to be designated safe havens. To Dr Bessanty, Nancy,
39:03
Speaker 1: you got that they jump in here. You gotta let
39:05
Speaker 1: you tell you, Okay, hit me somebody faith to Susan Smith,
39:09
Speaker 1: how many people would have taken those children? So forget
39:13
Speaker 1: the seventy two hours. If you decide I cannot take
39:17
Speaker 1: care of this three year old, for the love of God,
39:21
Speaker 1: take that three year old somewhere dropping at my house
39:25
Speaker 1: out fading sin seal right, this man. I agree with you, Cheryl.
39:28
Speaker 1: I agree with you, but not at an airport. Don't
39:32
Speaker 1: leave the baby alone unattended in an airport, Ashy Wilcote,
39:37
Speaker 1: can you talk some sense and to her, I completely
39:40
Speaker 1: agree that's something's hinky in this case because I do
39:43
Speaker 1: agree the baby appears to be healthy check great news.
39:46
Speaker 1: But what who's going to leave the child in an
39:49
Speaker 1: airport like you're saying? And the safe baby haven is
39:53
Speaker 1: is very um proactive in a way to protect children
39:58
Speaker 1: from parents who are unable to care for their children,
40:00
Speaker 1: because that's gonna happen at some point in time. A
40:02
Speaker 1: parent simply can't provide for a child doesn't mean they
40:05
Speaker 1: don't love them, but it specifically gives places that you
40:08
Speaker 1: can take the child so that the child will be
40:11
Speaker 1: treated and not further horned. Get fire stations, hospitals, private
40:16
Speaker 1: welfare agencies, churches. Indiana even said, hey, let's have what
40:20
Speaker 1: we call a baby box, an infant box where you
40:23
Speaker 1: can leave these babies and they get proper medical care
40:26
Speaker 1: and treatment and no stranger is going to pick them
40:29
Speaker 1: up and further abuse them. So that's the problem with
40:31
Speaker 1: this case that I see. Is it good that the
40:34
Speaker 1: baby was was healthy? Absolutely? Is that the right place
40:38
Speaker 1: for a rational parent who loves their child and wants
40:40
Speaker 1: to care for their child to leave the baby? No,
40:43
Speaker 1: it definitely is it. And I hear the two of you,
40:46
Speaker 1: and I'm I see the truth in both and what
40:49
Speaker 1: both of you were saying. Cheryl McCollum is advocating for
40:52
Speaker 1: the safe Babyhavin, which I agree with. If you can't
40:57
Speaker 1: keep the baby for whatever reason, I don't care give
41:00
Speaker 1: it to somebody that wants a baby. There are millions
41:04
Speaker 1: of people I'd love to take in a baby that
41:07
Speaker 1: doesn't have a home. So that's her point. My point,
41:12
Speaker 1: and I think Ashley Wilcott agrees is don't leave it
41:16
Speaker 1: at a child trafficking hub. Okay, that that not a
41:20
Speaker 1: good idea, so to you. Paul Chambers joining me, We
41:25
Speaker 1: don't know yet whether the baby was born in the
41:27
Speaker 1: bathroom or whether he was left there after being born.
41:31
Speaker 1: But what about security footage? I mean, airports are like casinos.
41:35
Speaker 1: I don't know how how good the footage is at
41:38
Speaker 1: the Tucson Airport, but I assumed pretty good. Right. Well,
41:42
Speaker 1: if it's an airport, obviously security is the main concern.
41:46
Speaker 1: Even though this is outside the passenger screening area, you
41:51
Speaker 1: have to imagine that there were several security cameras uh
41:55
Speaker 1: near this particular public restroom, and they are going to
41:59
Speaker 1: be looking at this material, the footage from these surveillance
42:03
Speaker 1: cameras to try to determine whether, uh exactly who brought
42:10
Speaker 1: this child into the restroom and left it there. Well,
42:15
Speaker 1: here's another clue there, I got another clue for you.
42:18
Speaker 1: What about this, Sheryl McCollum. The baby boy was found
42:20
Speaker 1: in a restroom near the rental car counters and outside
42:26
Speaker 1: airport security, which means this person never went through the
42:31
Speaker 1: security line, through the metal detector, I through all those cameras.
42:36
Speaker 1: This is before security. This tells me the mom may
42:40
Speaker 1: not have taken a flight that she may have come,
42:43
Speaker 1: dropped the baby, abandoned the baby and left Sheryl no questions.
42:47
Speaker 1: But Nancy, I'm gonna still say children are stolen from hospital,
42:51
Speaker 1: can be taken from anywhere. This person did the right
42:55
Speaker 1: thing if they left the baby because they were going
42:59
Speaker 1: to harm the bay, well, because they couldn't care for
43:01
Speaker 1: the baby, or they didn't want the baby, so before
43:05
Speaker 1: something drastic is done. Because we see that all the time, Nancy,
43:08
Speaker 1: and you and I have cherfully seen it where they
43:10
Speaker 1: leave the baby upside well, I agree. I agree with that.
43:14
Speaker 1: Better to leave the baby anywhere that end up killing
43:17
Speaker 1: the baby and burying it in the backyard by the
43:19
Speaker 1: barbecue pit, like a case we've recently covered. I give
43:22
Speaker 1: you that, Ryl, I give you that. But that's that's
43:24
Speaker 1: what I always tell my husband. I'm like, I'll say, uh,
43:27
Speaker 1: could just speed up just a little bit, and he goes,
43:30
Speaker 1: I don't want to kill anybody, And I'm like, David,
43:33
Speaker 1: isn't there a happy medium between going a hundred and
43:37
Speaker 1: fifty mph and running down children at a cross walk
43:40
Speaker 1: and going twenty five? Isn't there somewhat something we can
43:44
Speaker 1: agree on in the middle like maybe fifty. So my
43:48
Speaker 1: point to you, miss Cheryl McCollum is that isn't there
43:53
Speaker 1: a better alternative between killing your baby and burying it
43:57
Speaker 1: by the barbecue pit and leaving it at a child
44:00
Speaker 1: trafficking hub. I mean, couldn't you leave it outside the church,
44:04
Speaker 1: outside a hospital, just at a police station? And if anything,
44:09
Speaker 1: I mean, am I Bethany, You're you're the crazy doctor?
44:14
Speaker 1: Am I crazy? Here? Actually? I'm thinking about something Cheryl said,
44:19
Speaker 1: as the fact that this could have been a young mother.
44:22
Speaker 1: And because we know that um women who give up
44:26
Speaker 1: their babies, whether they they take them to a safe,
44:29
Speaker 1: harder place or they killed the baby, they don't really
44:32
Speaker 1: conceptualize that they're pregnant. They don't bond with the baby
44:35
Speaker 1: during pregnancy, that the baby feels like an it rather
44:39
Speaker 1: than a heat or a she. And the fact that
44:42
Speaker 1: the baby was tended to and left in a highly
44:45
Speaker 1: trafficked area does imply that the mother had some thought
44:50
Speaker 1: about the welfare of the baby, because, you know, Nancy,
44:52
Speaker 1: we cover so many stories where the babies in a
44:55
Speaker 1: gas station bathroom trying you know, the mother tries to
44:59
Speaker 1: flush the baby on the toilet, it's it's left in
45:02
Speaker 1: a trash can and a dumpster. And actually this mother
45:06
Speaker 1: did choose a highly trafficked area, which means that she
45:11
Speaker 1: did not want the baby left unattended for a long
45:13
Speaker 1: long time. So you think of an immature mother, a
45:17
Speaker 1: young mother there there may be not thinking about you know,
45:20
Speaker 1: child human trafficking. They're thinking about what where can I
45:25
Speaker 1: leave the baby where a lot of women are going
45:27
Speaker 1: to come in and out in a short period of time,
45:30
Speaker 1: so that baby will not be left on that changing
45:33
Speaker 1: table for a long time. It's not how you and
45:35
Speaker 1: I would think, but maybe that's how a sixteen year
45:37
Speaker 1: old would think. Nancy, this is Ashley. I just have
45:41
Speaker 1: to you know, I hate to say something nefarious is
45:44
Speaker 1: a foot. I think it's hopeful that it's as innocent
45:47
Speaker 1: as this mother is choosing to leave her child where
45:49
Speaker 1: someone can get the child. In this day and age
45:52
Speaker 1: and what I see every single day as a judge
45:54
Speaker 1: in juvenile court, I have to worry. What if it's
45:57
Speaker 1: a mother who sold the baby and the terms were, oh,
46:01
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave the baby and you're gonna come in
46:02
Speaker 1: and get that baby right away. What if it's the
46:05
Speaker 1: baby and what if the mother is a criminal and said, hey,
46:08
Speaker 1: I'm okay selling my child for for sex trafficking, how
46:12
Speaker 1: are we going to make this swap. I'm gonna leave
46:14
Speaker 1: the child, you pick a child up. I'm not saying
46:16
Speaker 1: that happened. I am not accusing this mother of anything,
46:19
Speaker 1: but I do think it's naive to not think that
46:21
Speaker 1: there could be something to farious a foot. There is
46:24
Speaker 1: something the faireus a foot, and that is the baby
46:26
Speaker 1: was abandoned and it could have been kidnapped, exploited, who
46:30
Speaker 1: knows what. But right now the baby is safe and sound.
46:34
Speaker 1: If you have information, here's the tip line. Five to
46:38
Speaker 1: zero seven nine one four four four four, five to
46:43
Speaker 1: zero seven nine one four four four four or five
46:48
Speaker 1: to zero seven nine eight one three five to zero
46:53
Speaker 1: seven nine one six eight one three. We are waiting
46:58
Speaker 1: for justice to on fall. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off,
47:03
Speaker 1: goodbye friend