Latest / The Bridge To Tomorrow's Talent Podcast / Ep. 13 Building Tomorrow's Tech Talent: How Cities Create the Next Generation of IT Professionals

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Ep. 13 Building Tomorrow's Tech Talent: How Cities Create the Next Generation of IT Professionals · The Bridge To Tomorrow's Talent Podcast

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning or good afternoon.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us whenever and wherever you are.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Zachary Hill, and I'm the chief of staff here at Tomorrow's Talent, where we strive every day to be the bridge for students and young adults from their education to the real world of work.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to The Bridge to Tomorrow's Talent, a podcast to discuss the state of the workforce, the future of work-based learning, how to best launch into new careers, and what really makes the real world of work tick.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're joined by Steve Hargis, the IT director for the city of Moreno Valley, where they ensure uh easy and equitable access to the city services.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, can you tell us a little bit about what your team does for the city and how you guys ensure that access?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning, Zach.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to be here with you today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, well, uh, my team manages all of the technology uh and systems for the city.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: We uh have four different groups.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We have a telecommunications group uh that runs all of our cables and fibers, including out in the in the city streets.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we have a network operations group, which handles all of our desktops and servers and um our cloud tenants.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a GIS group, Geographic Information Systems, which uh everything in a city is geographically based, and so that's a very important group for us.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also have an applications group, we call them Enterprise Systems, that's oh, I don't know, 150 or 60 different applications that we use at the city.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh what I think what is really the secret sauce for our group is that we um have become very good in at change management.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when we move from one software platform to another, uh we walk our business departments through that change and uh onto the new technology.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys are handling software, hardware, and people, right?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing all three.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: That is correct.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the uh the important part is the people part.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely the social aspect.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I know there's, you know, a lot of people have all kinds of ideas and some misconceptions, some correct about the kind of work that happens to make our technology function in the background.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, lots of people think that it's just sitting at a desk and some people realize all the other parts that go into it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say is one of the most challenging things that your team has to tackle, one of the things that you know presents the most difficulties that you have to overcome?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I would say it's that change management piece.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, sort of the cybersecurity, having applications, that's sort of anti or the job.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to do those things well.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is or can be, anyway, particularly difficult is um helping people to understand the value of a new piece of technology that you would like to introduce to them.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you need to get their buy-in, so they need to be convinced that this is actually going to help them and not just be something else they have to do or add to their list of things to do.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in order to do that, you have to really understand their job and make sure that what you're giving them is uh appropriate and helps them be productive.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I like to say that that uh most of my staff can could be productive in the business departments that they support because we understand what they're doing at great depth in order to provide truly productive technology for them.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not easy, that's a lot of work, and that's uh getting out there, meeting them, talking to them, finding the boundaries of what they do, where they interface with other departments or with the public.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it's actually Sounds like air traffic control almost.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta know where everything is and where it's moving and how it's gonna interact.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and keep the planes up in the air until they get to the final destination.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, prevent any crashes, right?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, good to hear and good to hear.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's the part you guys have gotten really good at, right?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: That you guys are really working on because it's not just the technical side, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Making sure the technology works, but that kind of social side of making sure all the people work with your systems and that that all cooperates and and does what it needs to do.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Bringing the right technology to the business departments because they all have very different needs.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there's definitely a technology piece to it, but uh, to be really good at it, there's uh a people piece where you match the technology and the people together.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Steve, how did you get your start in this work?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you know you were gonna work for a city from the beginning, or did you just kind of wind up here through a series of other events?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you get from a high school graduate to where you are today?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I went to school to be a lawyer, but I I determined uh very quickly in my first semester that I was much more interested in justice, not necessarily law.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had taken a computer course, I loved it, so I took more and more.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of how I got into the field.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after I graduated, I worked for a public transportation company up in Portland, Oregon.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of fun.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: I worked in their IT group for a while, and then I went back to school to get a master's degree because I was really enjoying uh computers, and in particular, I I studied databases quite a bit.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I did some uh sort of freelance software development work during that time, and uh I really enjoyed that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I actually stayed in school longer, and after I uh got a doctoral degree, I went to work for IBM as a software developer, and I worked for them for about five years, and then I worked for a uh smaller company that had both hardware and software, and we were uh introducing uh windows onto very large computers as opposed to just PCs.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was a good time.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I spent uh quite a bit of my time uh trying to break software and measure it, and when it broke, then we would see how we could fix it and make it more robust.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh IBM bought that company, and I didn't want to work there again.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I couldn't get away from IBM.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh worked for a couple of startup companies, which was very exciting, very fast-paced.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in 2001, um when uh 9-11 hit, uh technology went through a very difficult time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was part of that.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I had several years of unemployment there, and had an opportunity at the end of that to work in the public sector.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I started working for a city, and I found that work uh very fulfilling.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: That was uh I I think that played into my desire to uh or my interest in justice as opposed to law, and to be able to uh give residents of a city um technology that helped help them and help run the city and did things in the city that were for the residents uh was very appealing to me.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I have been uh now in the public sector for um over 20 years.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Found a found a very nice home, comfortable home in the public sector.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, for you know, students who might be watching this or folks who might be talking to students later, uh, what would you say is the the biggest differences for you between working for, say, a large corporation like IBM or even like that startup and working in the public sector and working for the city?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: How does that differ?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: One of the main differences, I would say, is uh the private sector was all about uh profit and sustainability, um, keeping your company um profitable.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in the public sector, um instead of competition with others to make money and keep your company afloat, um we cooperate a lot.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: We uh joke with each other, we we steal each other's uh ideas all the time.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um we have uh in California a listserv that connects all of the cities and special districts.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's extremely active.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a question, if you want a document and you don't want to write it all yourself from scratch, just you throw it out on that listserv.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody in the state is going to pick it up within a few hours, uh, help you out with a problem, give you an answer, uh, shoot you the last copy of an RFP that they did or a policy that they've written, something that that you can use.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh that friendly uh attitude, uh congeniality amongst all of the cities uh has been very enjoyable.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that that's a huge difference, I think, with the public sector.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: The public sector uh added benefit of a pension is something that has really gone by the wayside in the private sector.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I cannot deny it, that's a good part of working in the public sector.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, knowing that that's handled for you on the back end has got to be really nice.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: How as you were going along that path, you know, through those different companies and through all the education that you had to do to get to the doctoral degree, did you have any mentors or anybody that you know was more experienced in the field?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that was a professor or uh, you know, somebody that you met in industry that kind of helped you along, gave you advice and pointed the way for you?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I had several.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, certainly professors that pushed me to think uh hard about technology and in different ways, particularly in the graduate programs.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the the one that comes to mind the most that was the most helpful to me was a manager I had after I, yeah, after I had my graduate degrees.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was working in a medium-sized technology company, and I had just stepped out of the individual contributor role and into a management role.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was justifying uh my budget one day, and at the end he dismissed everyone except me, and he said, Okay, you really did that all wrong.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he took the time to sit there for uh about an hour and say, Well, actually, this is what I was looking for.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is how you could have provided that and probably should have provided that, and just gave me a whole different way of uh thinking about contributing to the company um as a manager.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: That that was very helpful to me.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I appreciated the straightforward and honest feedback.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't, you know, he wasn't upset at me or mad.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: He he saw that I was struggling and he wanted to help me uh be a good employee.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so he told me exactly uh what had gone wrong and how I could fix that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And over the years, I've always sought that kind of help from people, and and I've sought to do to give others uh help in a very uh very congenial kind of way, very friendly, yeah, and and see if I can help them out.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: They kind of just real, like you said, constructive feedback, straight to the point, but not not mean, not angry.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's real important.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not judgmental, gave me a lot of freedom and made me feel like, okay, people care about me here, and I can uh be myself and and I can take some risks, and I'm not gonna get flammed or fired for it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely something to look for and in a place you work, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: You want to have that kind of culture where, like you said, you can take a risk and and learn from it as opposed to you know get in trouble for it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very freeing and very affirming, definitely.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, here we're always focused at Tomorrow's Talent on thinking about the next generation of the workforce, how we can better prepare students and young adults, whether they're in high school or college, how we can prepare them to go out into that world of work.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, finding a manager like that, I think is a big tip that we can give them, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: To find somebody who can give you that advice as you're training and as you're learning.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but what do you think uh from the the folks that you see entering the workforce?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how do you feel about the next generation of young professionals?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Are you seeing a lot of the right skills out there, or are they coming out of school, you know, eager and hungry for it, or have things changed significantly from, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, it is different.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: The technology is different than 10 or 20 years ago.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Apprentices that we have received through tomorrow's talent have been excellent, and they have great attitudes.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they are they are eager and very um anxious to learn all they can.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um every project that we've talked to them about and then assign them to, they they have been excited.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think any of them have ever said, I don't, I don't want to work there.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to work on that kind of a project or something.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: They've all been very uh very hungry to uh understand what it's like to work, uh have a real job and what kind of things we actually do as opposed to reading about it.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been very beneficial to us too.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: We like to say that we're building communities, but we're also building talent.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what kind of work is it that those interns have been doing for you guys while they're out there?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think a lot of people have different conceptions, just like the technology field about internships, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: They think folks are getting coffee and sweeping floors and running, you know, photocopies, things like that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: But what kind of work do you have them doing for you?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I tell you, the apprentices we've had are far too valuable to uh to do those things.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: We typically start them out working with some of our professional uh IT technicians.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have several very good ones.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um they kind of shadow them around.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those technicians get out into the city, they're sort of the front or the face of uh my organization.
• 14:45
  unknown: Okay.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh we teach them customer service skills, how um how to answer questions that are asked, how not to get upset when people get upset at them and how not how not to react.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but how to provide help with the technology.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that's hardware, sometimes it's software.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: We teach them how to do installations, how to clone different machines.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of technical help, um, mostly in what we would call the help desk area.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: From there, um, we will often assign them to a project or to a team of with other people.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: We have we are what we call a lean staff city, so we don't have a huge group for what we do.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's a smaller group.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: But what that means is then we have to do quite a bit, a very broad spectrum of jobs.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we try to share that with the apprentices and give them the opportunity not to be good just in one narrow field, but to um get some competency in all different kinds of areas.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we um give them a little bit of uh networking.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: We do uh the we have some that work on cybersecurity and um and and in that area it's often uh around the policies and our practices and our procedures and how we um are are set up to stay safe all the time, or what we would do if we had to respond to uh an incident.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so those are some of the areas that we uh that we assign them to, and we always ask them for innovation.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: What what are they thinking?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um part of what they bring to us is a young, fresh perspective on technology.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's very helpful to us.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Make an improvement, make a change, make just involve something new that maybe you know, legacy stuff hadn't quite pulled in yet.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can see definitely see that benefit of having some younger eyes or at least just some fresher eyes, right, on some people who haven't been stuck doing the work for a long time.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: How do you said you put the interns then onto teams or the apprentices onto teams so that they can work with folks on specific projects?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do the rest of your staff interact?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, how how do those is it a task because oh, we now have an intern, or do they see it as, oh great, some extra help?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: What what's the perception there?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in the beginning, I will admit, we wondered how much um uh uh help it would be, and we we set our expectations low for the first few uh apprentices, but we quickly learned um that we did not need to be that way, that we could expect quite a bit from them.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um we've come to rely on the interns uh quite a bit.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we know sort of in the back of our minds that they are here to learn and that we need to make sure we give them um uh access to a a broad spectrum of jobs on a project, but um we just include them as we would uh the the full-time staff in a project and um make sure that they understand uh that they should be asking us questions, a lot of questions all the time.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we give them goals and we give them timelines and ask them to get things done in a certain uh with a certain attitude and and in a certain time frame.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we we try to fold them in as much as we can.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And each one that uh graduates or uh sometimes they'll get a full-time job in the middle of the apprenticeship, we we always miss all of them, and it's and we say, Oh, we have to go find another one now.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's too bad.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: That that guy, that gal was really working out well.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So matter of fact, we've hired uh several of the interns.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and actually, one of them starts uh her job today.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, hey, that's fantastic.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's her uh so she was an intern, she got a job elsewhere.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: She had done such a good job for us when the time was right.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: We reached back out to her and said, Hey, we have an open position, please come back.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, she was excited to come back.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of growing your own, taking folks from the internship all the way to permanent hire.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and since we get our interns from uh the local community, that is of huge benefit to the city.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: We are we we are trying to build talent, not not only for everyone else, but for ourselves also.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so to have a local talent pool and to be able to hire local residents and keep them local and not have them leave in order to find work is very valuable to a city.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: That helps um improve what we call the quality of life for the residents, but it also uh keeps that money in our community, and so it's an economic development resource also.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: They live in the city, they're paying property taxes, they're shopping in the city, hopefully, all of that, as opposed to the brain drain that we see some other places where folks leave and they go work somewhere else, and then that's not where they spend their money, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: They go elsewhere.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I can definitely see the benefit.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big priority for a city.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I mean, speaking of which, everybody's facing real uncertain, you know, budgets right now, whether it's private industry or public uh industry.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of folks right now are dealing with some uncertainty, if not some, you know, bad weather when it comes to budgeting.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and what do you see as the difference in the value of internships when budgets are less predictable?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you see a difference there?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I do in two ways.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um one is um we typically in my grouping, we have about four internship positions.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's super tight, um then we just cut that back to two or three.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um but to be honest, we try not to do that because the value they bring, I don't think we've had any bad interns.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So they all bring value to us.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um and it is, they start, you know, they're starting at the bottom, they're learning, so they're starting at the lower end of the pay scale, but we receive uh great value out of that in a uh tight budget situation.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that would definitely not be the first place that I would look to cut.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, because they're a good bang for your buck, good value for what you're spending on them.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Very good value.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then hopefully they come back, right?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they're able to be a full-time employee later who's already kind of onboarded, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: They've if they already work there as an intern, they're gonna know your systems, kind of know how to operate on the team a lot better without that spool up time that somebody totally fresh would take.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a huge benefit.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we also know that their attitude.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: We know that they understand customer service and how important that is to us.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Soft skills, yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we wouldn't invite anyone back that uh didn't have um good customer service skills.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, the the uh the knowledge of that person having worked with them for one to two years is a very big consideration.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like a like a really long extended interview, right?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Getting to see everything they know.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: True enough.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Based on that, whether it's you know interns or new employees, what would you say is one of the biggest challenges or or maybe missteps that people new to the industry make when they're trying to get into the information technology space?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I recently uh saw someone make one of those.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: We were interviewing for um actually a senior position, higher level position.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh this person was trying to do the interview with Chat GPT, and it was so obvious.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because lots of people think AI can do it all, right?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good to hear.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're much better off to do some research and find a place that you want to work.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: See if you have if you can network around, find somebody that you know there and talk to them about what it's like and what kind of work they're doing and what kind of people they look for.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: But also look on the websites, make yourself acquainted with that company or with that city.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did about three months ago, uh, we interviewed for another position, and the guy we hired um came in and convinced us in an hour I know I know this city, I've done research about it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, mentioned a couple of specific things that he got off the website, which was just fine because nobody else we interviewed looked at our website, so they didn't know anything.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, This is where I want to work, and here's the reasons why.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um as a manager, uh that is a really compelling um uh candidate.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess I'm I definitely favor uh doing some research and targeting um your resume, your cover letter, and your interview questions um to each company.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that takes um a lot of work, but it also demonstrates that you know how to do that kind of research.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you encounter a software problem, you're gonna use the same skill.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna go on the web and you're gonna talk to your friends, and you're gonna join a forum or a community, and you're gonna ask questions and you're going to learn about it, and you're gonna resolve that problem.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of uh interest in learning and growth uh is invaluable to a long-term employee.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really good stuff for people to hear, whether they're like you said, that was a senior position, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So whether they're going for their first job or going for some later promotion or something, I that's really important to hear.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then you talked a lot as well about the benefits of internship, right?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: The benefits of having interns, of having apprentices on your staff and how that can help and how they can even come back and be good permanent employees later.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh do you have any idea then what some of the things that might stop companies or cities, you know, organizations from having interns, from starting down that road and and beginning the process?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you can talk about some of the struggles you guys had as you were starting to go from nothing to hosting apprentices.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as with everyone, it's a change.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's something new, it's different.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so understanding the value of it um initially can be difficult.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it it took uh others to convince me actually that that the benefits were there, that the um expanding the capacity of my team um and being able to invest directly into our residents and into their quality of life um was uh very important in helping me understand that I'm uh I'm going to get good people and yes, I'll be teaching them some things, but um it won't be very long, and uh, we will be receiving value from that employee.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it it it takes less time than than I initially thought it would.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I thought it'd be six months or something, but really after a month or so, we made sure uh that the apprentices had a couple of certificates, and um they were able to be productive uh within I'd say two months uh easily.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they they onboard very quickly.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and they're anxious to to learn.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we're and you're a true believer now, you're a little hesitant to begin with, but now you're now you're on board.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, most definitely.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've run our program now, I think it's about three years, and we have had about 14 different apprentices come through.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um we have been fortunate and able to hire two of them back, um, which is a timing issue.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: There were a number of them that I would have been happy to hire, but it it's a timing issue for us.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta have open positions in that, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and the in the budget for it and all.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's I I am definitely a proponent of of the apprenticeship programs.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're very they turn out to be not only good for me, but for the the city in general.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So my role in the city, it helps me achieve that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned a little bit earlier when we were talking about the interviews that somebody was using Chat GPT to try and do their interview.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that AI is making its way into a lot of different work that folks are doing from like cold call outreach type communication to I even saw some realtors using like AI phones to call people and ask if they want to, you know, sell their house and whatnot, doing like telemarketing type things.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with the changes that AI and just advancing technology in general, right?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Even if not specifically artificial intelligence is bringing, that especially to the kind of work you guys do, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: To technology-based work, uh, are you seeing the expectations for entry-level folks, whether that's you know, interns coming in to just get their learning, like what they have to know to even start on day one, or or fresh entry-level employees who are, you know, a service tech level one or whatever that position would be for you.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are those expectations changing?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: What they're expected to know on day one, the kinds of skills they're supposed to have and what they can do before you've you know had a chance to train them at all?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very timely topic.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Good question, Zach.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think that the expectations are changing.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't, we're not there yet.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't interview for um a certain level of AI understanding or knowledge, but we are definitely integrating more and more AI uh into all employees' work.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, particularly in the technology uh department, we we would expect them to be interested and have some level of knowledge about AI.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say definitely understand how to use an AI assistant to help you be more productive in things, whether it's you want to perform research on a particular topic or you want to create a nice-looking report quickly or a report for the city that looks like all the other reports for the city, you know, you you can shortcut your time uh to learn the way that the city does things through using an AI assistant.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I would I would highly recommend that for people.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and any of them are fine.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: If it's copilot or Claude or Jim and I, Chat GPT, um that's not nearly as important as understanding how would I use one of those?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: What would I ask it?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: How do I put good good prompts together?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because you apply it.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And once you get to the city and you can answer those for yourselves, you will be asked to help other staff throughout the city uh learn how to be more productive in that.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, AI, um, I firmly believe is going to be as at least as large of a movement as the internet was in 1993.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's huge, it's going to affect everybody, it's going to touch everybody's job eventually.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I would highly recommend that that the apprentices learn how to work with uh an AI assistant.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good to hear.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's it's going to be integral.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to need to know how to use it.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So start getting good at it now.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But my last question I always ask is if there's any advice you would give to new graduates and people trying to come into the field.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, one, we got, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Get good at AI, make sure that you at least understand it and can make use of it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: But is there anything else you would tell folks trying to break into this kind of industry who might be just finishing high school or maybe they're even in college already and just wrapping that their learning up there?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I would reiterate what I said about how to interview and get that first job.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that is very helpful.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's thrilling when somebody comes in, wants to work where where you're trying to hire.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I would say you you're in the technology field, so you need to be good and hopefully enjoy technology, but not at the expense of people.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Your um technology will really shine, and you will be a good long-term employee if you uh take some time to gather some soft skills, to know how to uh talk to people, to know how to not only offer you know a reasonable service, but really good service, um, you know, understand what that looks like, how important it is to follow up with people, uh, how to maintain your calm, even if they don't, um, how to show interest in people.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Those kind of soft skills uh will get you through interviews as well as help you uh be a very strong employee.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that's great advice.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Steve, so much for joining us today and sharing your thoughts and letting us know, you know, what you think about the industry and the current state of the workforce.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we do here.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I I gained a lot from what you were saying, and I'm hoping the folks that were watching along did as well.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for the opportunity, Zach.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of fun to talk about our apprenticeship program and how we're building talent.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we're so glad you guys are.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's really doing good things for everybody involved.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for the clients, you know, the the city, the residents that you guys are serving, for the other workers and definitely for the interns and apprentices to get their start and get out there and see what's going on in the world so they can make good choices, right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, everybody, for joining us today.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we appreciate you listening or watching along.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Please, if you're watching us on YouTube, take a moment to click that like button, leave a comment, subscribe if you want to see more of these videos come into your inbox and get notifications about them.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's all we can do to spread the word and make sure that everybody knows what's going on here and can hear from folks like Steve and other guests that we're going to have on.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening as an audio only, please leave a comment, subscribe for future podcasts to stay connected.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: A reminder for everybody uh watching or listening along in the episode description of this, you should find a link to our churn calculator.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: There will be a little form you have to fill out, and then you'll get access to download the file.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just a great tool that you can play with some numbers and see what the true cost of turn is for specific positions at your organization.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can tweak all the variables to match it so it fits your situation perfectly and look at churn and try to talk about increasing your tension.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just give us a call and we can we can figure out a way to maybe get you some interns and hopefully those become future employees, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much, everybody, for being here.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Steve, for joining us and sharing so much of your insights.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you everybody next time on The Bridge to Tomorrow's Talent.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.