Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Tombstone (1993) - George P. Cosmatos | Houselights #199

Transcript

Tombstone (1993) - George P. Cosmatos | Houselights #199 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the NED party.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to House Lights, the delightful House of Cosmatos.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Here on House Lights, where we are finally arriving at
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: the movie that I think we've all been waiting to
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: talk about in the House of Cosmatos, nineteen ninety three's Tombstone,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the historical cowboy thriller starring Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: and a bunch of other people, but mainly people talk
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: about those two. I'm joined by the fellow members of
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: my posse, Curly Bill, Tristan Riddell and Darren Turkey, Darren Johnson.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: It's don't ask me.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know the thing is, Western names don't
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: make a whole lot of sense sometimes, you know, why
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: was Doc Holiday called Doc Stories?
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Vary? So we'll invent something great for you by the
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: end of it.
• 1:09
  Speaker 5: Here, wasn't the addentist?
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: Sure?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Why not ask people who doctor Phillips was in Orlando
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: history and everybody will give you a slightly different answer
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: as to why he was called doctor, so you know,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: we'll figure it out. But anyway, here we are talking
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: about Tombstone, and this is our final stop in the
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: House of Cosmatos, and it's been an interesting ride so far,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: because we've we've gone from the terrifying highs of the
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: action mainstay tent pole feature Rambo First Blood Part two,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and then we took a couple of detours through Cobra,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: which is a cult classic that I don't think resonated
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: with the three of us quite in that way. And
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: then we went deep down in the sea through Leviathan
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: or an interesting detour where I think we're all glad
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: to surface from that one. And here we are. We
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: go from the depths of the ocean to the arid desert.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And I have a long relationship with the film. I have,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: you know, so many funny references. This film features very
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: much in my life at different points, with different stories
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: related to watching it, and you know it's very much
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: part of my lexicon. But we both know, both know,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: all three of us know that the two of you
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: are of course younger than I am, so I have
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: to know, Tristan. Was Tombstone allowed to be played in
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the Redell household or was it smuggled in at some point?
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: No, this was allowed. My dad showed this to me.
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: This was that's good parenting right there. Yeah, my dad,
• 2:49
  Speaker 5: I don't think he like, I don't think it was
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: like okay, come. I don't think it was like okay, son,
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: come come sit down, sit on my knee, and and
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: we'll watch Tombstone together. I think it was on like
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: AMC or something like that, and he said he's like,
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: he's like, oh, this is good. This is good, this
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: is good, Like we should watch this. It was it
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: was on TV, so it was the TV edit, you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: so it wasn't there wasn't anything crazy in there. But
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: I remember being absolutely enamored by Val Kilmer's doc Holliday
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: and you know, saying like what's tuberculosis? And he's like, well, Son,
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: you know, like there was a lot of that, like
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: why'd they do this? Or like why is that woman
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: for rent?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: You know like or something, you know, stuff like that,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: so important questions on a young man's journey toward adulthood. Darren,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: do you have a similar story or did you first
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: encounter this in college or high school?
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: No, it was probably high school. This is probably a
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: movie that was either like rented with friends from Blockbuster
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: or saw like at a friend's house. We didn't actually
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: have like a huge VHS collection at home like of
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: movies and such because this was before DVD. So yeah,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: this one I had friends in, Like, I had a
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: neighbor who had his entire understare kind of closet was
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: just wall to wall VHS and then slowly he evolved
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: it into wall to wall DVD, and so I'd always
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: go over there to like rent something or to borrow
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: something nice. But yeah, no, So I've seen this probably
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: a handful of times. I can't remember the last time
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: outside of this viewing. But I think the scenes that
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: stick the most with me is Bill Paxson's death. I
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: don't know why that scene where he's just like trying
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: so hard for them to get it out of his
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: back and it just doesn't work, and it's kind of like, yeah,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: he's it's like, you know, he's a white hat, he's
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: a hero. It's like still died, you know. And but
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: that and the cup scene. But I think, yeah, this
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: movie was really fun to revisit because everybody is in it,
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: and everybody is super young in nineteen ninety three.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Quinn, Yes, they're definitely much younger than they are now.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: And I think that Tombstone has a really interesting sort
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: of story in and of itself of getting there and
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: we'll double back to Bill Paxton when we talk about
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: the performances. But I'm just curious before you all sat
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: down to rewatch this time and we watched the director's cut,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: which is a vanishingly difficult version to locate, but of
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: course is just an absolute treasure to have in a
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: collection because it is. It's amazing the Vista series DVDs
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: that they had, and it's a bygone era when they
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: had those.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: Special special limited releases.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: I had the Sixth Sense and Unbreakable.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, I had this the series Unbreakable as well. They're beautiful,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: wonderfully designed packages, wonderful inserts, liner notes, the whole nine yards.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: But the director's cut, and here we are talking about
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Cosmatos as a director. How much history of Tombstone, the
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: making of Tombstone, did you guys know before we sat
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: down to review this.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: I knew a little bit, knew I knew a little bit.
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: And it was funny because knowing a little bit of
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: the backstory of Tombstone and then hearing about Cobra, and
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: then hearing about Leviathan, and then, you know, reaffirming what
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: I thought I knew about Tombstone. Cosmo, I say, it
• 6:34
  Speaker 5: like fifteen different ways. Cosmotose cosmo.
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: Everybody says it fifteen different ways.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: It's fine, okay, Like I try to say cosmatos because
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I had a friend scold me for saying it cosmatos.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And and the thing is, if you asked me to
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: repeat what I just said, I might invert them.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: So don't worry about it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: So okay. So apparently the writer, Kevin Jarra, he was
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: the he was the director for a month and he
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: was way in over his head. He did the story
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: for Rambo First Blood Part two. He ended up writing
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: The Devil's Own and The Mummy with Brendan Fraser and
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: Rachel Viiz And so, I mean, the guy's a good writer.
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: This is a great script, and he has great scripts
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: scripts that follow. But apparently he could not handle directing.
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: He thought he could. He convinced the studio that he could,
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: but he just couldn't do it. He could not hack it.
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: He got either he quit or got fired. After a month.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: He got canned because after just a month he was
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: so far behind schedule that they he wasn't getting the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: shots that they needed. And they looked at it and
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: they said, it gotta pull you now. There are shots
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: that survive to the final cut, both theatrical and director's cut,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: that he shot, and it's interesting because some of them
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: are some of the most beautiful shots in the movie,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: including when they go to Charlton Heston's cabin. Like, there's
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: some beautiful shots in that sequence, isn't it.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: The main stuff that he shot was the Heston stuff.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is the main stuff that he shot. So,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was so far behind schedule, there wasn't
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a lot, but what he shot, or rather what he
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: worked with the cinematographer William Fraker to get was beautiful
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: and like, in the back of my mind, there's a
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: part of me that's just so curious as to if
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: they had stuck by him, what it would have looked like.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: But yes, the legend is and I mean, you know,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: before we watch into that, Darren, did you know anything
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: about the behind the scenes shuffling with Tombstone or the
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: legends that had built up around the making of this
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: movie before Now.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: No, I didn't know any of the details. I mean,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed a Western in my time, but it was
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: never my favorite genre. So but yet now I'm just thinking,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: like Charleston Heston. I didn't realize that was him in
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: that shot, which is even cooler because that's like a
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: pillar of acting from the Zara.
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: M I'm sure such an unabashed Chuck Heston fan. I
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: friggin love Charlton Heston so any even when he has
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: like a cameo or a bit part, I'm all about it.
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: I think my favorite cameo of his has to be
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: Wayne's World two.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pretty great one. I'll give him credit.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Even though I loathe Tim Burton's version of Planet of
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the Apes, his scene with Tim Roth is freaking great.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know how somebody has the screen presence behind
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: all of that Ape makeup for me to perk up
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and pay a little more attention. But you know, hats
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: off like he he had a natural charisma on screen
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: that you can't deny, like an old school movie actor
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: type of thing, Like he knew how to work the
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: camera and it's it's from a different era, you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: no doubt. But this this entire cast is phenomenal uh
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: and one of the phenomenal performances. Michael Bean a favorite
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: mainstay of James Cameron for a time playing Johnny Ringo,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: who is Doc's immediate foil. He almost left the film
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: because he was personal friends with Jara, and I mean,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you could be in personal friends.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know why I phrase it that way, but
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: they were close friends and he almost quit, but he
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: wound up staying. And the legend behind this is that
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: to save the movie, Kurt Russell reached out to his
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: friend Sylvester Stallone and said, I need somebody who can
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: be behind the camera and get the shots I need
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: and sly said, uh so, kind of a ghost director basically,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And it more has come out through the years, and
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Val Kilmer has even gone so far as to back
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: it up and say, yeah, basically, Kurt and I would
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: go back to his room, figure out what shots we needed,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: draw stuff out and say this is what I need here,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: this is what we need here. We got to get
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: this shot there. And they would go to Cosmatos and
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: they would say this is what we need today, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Cosmatos would say you got it and he.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: I totally buy that by what I know of cause
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Macho said he would just like, oh, I don't have
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: to think here's a list.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Sure, but an amazing project manager. Yes, that's that's what
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: he that's what he was. And I don't say that
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: as a slight against him, but I say it to
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: say that I think what this film demonstrates is something
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: we sort of picked up on when we went from
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Rambo into Cobra and then through Leviathan, is his skill
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: set is getting the shot. His skill set is not
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: creative thinking or auteur Christopher Nolan level, I have a
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: vision in my head of how I'm going to compile
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: this and work all the things in. It's you go
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: to him and you say, this is my script and
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: these are the shots I need, and you are going
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: to get precisely this and then we will put it
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: together in editing, and you might it's easy to be
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: dismissive of that. But at the same time, Tristan, as
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you love to say, it's a producer's medium. The director's
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: job is to deliver what the producer wants. And you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: in this case, they wanted to say this, and they
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: were racing against and they were actually battling with the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: production for Lawrence Kasten's Wyatt Earp because they were battling
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: about the period replicas. And to Cosmatos's credit, is supposedly
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: he was the one that was very big about period
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: authenticity for the stuff that they had on set. So
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: hats off to him there, you know, fighting to get
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: that stuff. But Darren, does this film play to you?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, knowing all of that, do you get any
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: sense of that that there's a you know, this sort
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: of project management sort of thing, or do you get
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the sense that this movie is something a little more?
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Is there something a little more going on from the
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: director in this?
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: You know? I will say, I mean it's it's a
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: beautiful movie the like you you know, like you're saying
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: not just the shots, but the costumes. And I often
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: when I'm watching a movie from this time, like early nineties,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: I have to remind myself it all has to be
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: in camera, pretty much like there's no oh yeah, we
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: shot here, and but it's not really a ghost town anymore,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: and there's a town over there and we're just gonna
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: digitally remove it. It's like, no, there's no none of that,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Like you have to get it all in camera and
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: it has to all be real. I think I read
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: that only one character had a fake mustache and everybody
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: else's mustaches were legit, which I mean, we know Sam
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Elliott was legit, like we just know that off of the.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: Bat, But I mean, obviously he was born with a mustache.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: And he went on to become mayor of Kohok, which
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: is nice. But all that to say, yeah, that aspect
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: of it definitely shone through.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: It feels. I mean, it is the quintessential modern Western.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: And I say modern in the fact that you know,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: you could watch this alongside Good, Bad and the Ugly
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: or Fistful a Dollars or any of those, and that's
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: going to have a different vibe. It is not that
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: same vibe, not in a bad way. It's a nineties Western.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: But but all that to say, you know, I was
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: thinking as you were talking about Russell and him being
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: the actual director, but I don't want to go so
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: far as to like, at risk our list of cosmotose like,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: I want to give him some credit because even if
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: someone's giving you a storyboard and a list, you still
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: have to pull off the shots. And Russell is in
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: pretty much every scene, so you know, he's not like
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: he's like, Okay, I'm going to go act and then
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go run over and watch the daily
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: and run back like, yeah, he maybe basically I would
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: say he's more producing the movie than directing the movie
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: in that regard between.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: Like Vell Kilmer and according to Val Kilmer, they had
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, you know, he how do I put this?
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: Like they both worked on it together a great deal,
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: and they both shared a lot of duties. They you know,
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: like everything that you said, John, they did, and they
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: they worked really hard to kind of prop cosmotose up,
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: to make his job as easy as possible, and they
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: did it without ego, which I think is pretty fantastic
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: because Kilmer would be the first one to tell you
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: that Russell was the main focal point, like he was
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: the kind of the creative force behind the movie, elevating
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: cosmotose Up, and that even though Kilmer and Russell worked
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: hard together, it was very much Russell's vision and Russell
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: was the one who's who told the studio I don't
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: want to be credited as a director, like they Apparently
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: that conversation happened where they're like, you're doing so much work,
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: you know, do you need like, you know, do you
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: need to be a part of the guild that kind
• 16:27
  Speaker 5: of thing. And Kilmer said that Russell did it without ego,
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: as in, he killed a lot of Rp's solo stuff
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: in order to get the project done, which would have
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: never happened with Stallone.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, well we have we have right there
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: with Cobra, Stallone killed everybody else's scenes. It was like,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I want to be on I want to be on screen,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and it's like it's but even striking a lot of
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Irp's you know, solo stuff, quote unquote, He's still in
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: a great deal of the movie. He's still a very
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: clear main character.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: There are three arps in this movie.
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: But that is true. There six ERPs in this movie.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Oh oh oh, technically seven bureaucrat Riddell, you are technically correct,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: and that is the best kind of correct.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: So there, why I call it Tombstone, call it the IRPs?
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well then it just sounds like a comedy.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: But with this How the Earth Went West.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: We've mentioned a couple of times that the movie's beautiful
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: to look at. I think that, I honestly, I think
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: there are I was a very young man in nineteen
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: ninety three, and I think the Tombstone comes along just
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: as I'm becoming more aware of the beauty that's possible
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: in film, and there are definitely shots and I want
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: to take a moment to detour and talk about the cinematographer,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: William H.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: Fraker.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Frank, Yes, William Fraker, And I want to ask you first, Tristan,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: you know, did does this jump out to you the
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: way it does to me? As there are certain moments
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: where the movie's going along and then you see a
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: shot and you're like, oh, oh, that's really something.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: Absolutely this was this was beautifully shot, and I think
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: that that is a key component to the Western. And
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: I mean that in all seriousness. Cinematography is a key
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: component to the Western because even though this movie had
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: some beautiful close ups, some amazing close ups where even
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: to the point where in that final showdown between Doc
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: Holliday and Ringo, like he has a cigarette and we
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: got a close up of his teeth, of his teeth
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: where he goes, shay you win. Oh, it's like like
• 18:49
  Speaker 5: you have an extreme close up and almost kind of
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: like you tend to yuma this one. The Western is
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: defined by the space between objects. It's the landscape that
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: makes a Western a Western, and this movie has some
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: amazing shots, some amazing landscape shops where you see the
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: distance between the Ok Corral and the saloon, where like
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: you have the four I'm sorry, the three rbs and
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: Holiday walking like walking towards the camera. You have space, yes,
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: the sense of space, like you understand the geometry and
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: geography of Tombstone, and you know, like when Holiday leaves
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: what's her name, you know, And that's one of the
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: differences in the direct Cake Kate, where he leaves Kate
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: and you know, goes off into the sunset. You see
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: the distance between Kate and Holiday, and it's just that's
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: the thing. Like it, there is an art form of
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: space in the Western and Tombstone delivers that, even though
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: they give us some amazing close ups as well.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: And I'll say, you know, to piggyback on that. This
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: movie also does a really good job.
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: With the silhouette, Like I never mistook a character for
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: another character, even though they're all wearing cowboy hats, they're
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: all relatively even they're like a group of wearing black
• 20:16
  Speaker 6: hats or a group of wearing white hats, Like I
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: could always tell, like I may not remember their names
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: sometimes that's a little harder to track, but I could
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: always tell like, oh, I know that's the guy who
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: picked that fight, and that's the guy who did that,
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: and anytime he would show back up, I would remember
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: it for him visually at least, so that that's impressive,
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: because there are movies that don't do that where I'm still,
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: you know, like, wait, who is that again?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: I gotta look it up. You know, it's just all
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: the mustaches.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: They're so iconic.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Well, keying off of what both of you are saying,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I think The OK Corral has uh it has a
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: demonstration not just of the beautiful use of close up,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: but also Cosmotos is still the guy getting the performance
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: from people on set. He's the one asking I need that,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I need that from you. Okay, let's shoot it. And
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: that moment where Doc Holliday winks and you know, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: the guy he's facing off against his face falls Thomas
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Hayden Church his face falls in a certain way, and
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: then it cuts to Wyatt and you see him go
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: oh no, like it's beautifully played.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: This This is the type of movie.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Where if I can have a little George Lucas here,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: films a visual medium, I can turn off the sound
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: and I can follow everything that's happening. I know, exactly
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: what's going on. I don't need to hear the dialogue
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: I know this sounds silly, you know, but when Kilmer
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: winks that was all Kilmer like he was. It wasn't
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: in the script. He was just he just did it,
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: and they and Cosmotos was just like, yeah, that's going in.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how could it not? This is okay, Look, let's
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: not dance around it. Let's let's go into the performances.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: When people talk about Tombstone, Val Kilmer's performance is what
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: everybody remembers. Everybody talked about it in the time. Roger
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Ebert even said when a movie comes out and you
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: hear one or two people mention somebody's performance, that's one
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: thing he goes. But when you hear a dozen people say,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: oh my god, this person's performance, he's like, you have
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: really take note.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: You know, you got to see this movie. So Kilmer
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: obviously like this.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Is during his his absolute golden era of performance. And
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: you know, Darren, I'll talks it to you first. Aside
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: from Kilmer, who stands out for you in the cast?
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, are we just gonna like, obviously kur Russell
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: is a given because it's just that he's in every shot,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: acting every scene. But uh hmm, it my mind is
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: swirling around the other characters just because it is such
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: a urban holiday movie, like they are the center of
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: the story, even though you know they're not in every
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: scene together, like they's their dynamic is so strong. But uh,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I would shoot Bill Paxson. I would say the way,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: especially when he's having his first fight and he talks
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: about like actually killing a man. You know. But but
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: and I'll say this as a blanket term for every act,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: every standoff. The thing about a Western and the time
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: of the Western is it's all about reading your opponent.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: You're reading are they stronger, are they faster? Do they
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: have more? They confident? You're trying to deduce all of
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: these little minutia out of the moment, because that is
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: the difference between life and death, and that's what leads
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: to you know, or seeing you know, the guy's face
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: fallen and you realize, oh, he's made the decision in
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: his mind and I can see it on his face
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: that he's going to start shooting. And that happens a
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: couple other times in this movie, primarily primarily there, but
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: even or the scene where you know, goes in to
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Billy Bob Thornton and just smacks him around and knows
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: he's not going to do anything. I love that he's
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: all talk.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: And that's ad libbed.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Billy Bob Thornton was told to ad lib and just
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: quote unquote be a bully. And it's like, that's really great,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: you know that, Like it's so authentic, and you see
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: him dissolve on camera. It's an amazing moment. And this
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: is before sling Blade vaults him into stardom and and
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: notice and everything like that, and it's such a key performance.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: You have to buy that IRP has mentally broken this man,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: that this guy that's used to slapping people around and
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: yelling at them and intimidating them, once somebody who's not
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: afraid of him shows up. I think Billy Bob Thornton
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: does an incredible job of showing sniveling.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Coward he really is at heart. And it's it's beautiful.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: It's beauty. I'm glad.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you called that out. Tristan, who stands out
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: in the cast for you.
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: Oh man, it's it's so hard not to say Kilmer.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: Well, it's let's set aside.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Kilmer you know that's like that's like going to somebody
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: and saying, like, who's your favorite superheroes?
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: Like okay, just set set Batman aside. Okay, everybody, but
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: that right.
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: Like I want to I want to say Bean, you know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 5: because of what Ringo does, because you know, like Darren,
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: you and I were talking about how you know, Bean
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: lifts up Kilmer. You know he eats. Yeah, he like
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: without being kind of showing that fear in the final showdown.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: You know, like Bean allows Kilmer to have those lines
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: and like he is he is the perfect acting partner
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: in this movie because even with the with the cup,
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: you know, like the cup scene when he's you know,
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: like when they do the whatever that's called when they're
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: flipping the guns around and everything like that, and he's
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: going to showing off twirling pistols and and Kilmer diffuses situation.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: Am I doing it with a cup?
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: Side side note? I was once I had a youth
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: pastor show that scene from Tombstone, like the cup scene,
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: about how to diffuse the situation, like how great it
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: was to not escalate it and make it violent and
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: everything like that. I just, oh, I always remember that
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: moment when my youth pats are pulled, my youth, my youth.
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: Pastor pulls out tombstone and shows the scene. I was like,
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: oh my god, it's tombstone. But yeah, I think I
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: think Michael Bean or i mean Powers Booth is phenomenal.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: He gets criminally overlooked in this movie.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: And there's so many great people in this power such
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: a powerhouse screen.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And but there's a there's a reason there's a gift
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: of him looking out and going well, bye bye. That
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: is such an incredible moment of But but even you know,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: to speak to your point about Bean's performance, Bean even
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: stands out among the the the other cowboys because they're
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: they're being you know, just basically outlaws and a holes
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: that are just endemic of the time. These are just
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: the way these guys are. But Bean is always elevated
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: as like pure evil. Even even powers Booth's Curly Bill
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't know what to do with him exactly. He's like,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you know, what would you do in a deal with
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the devil? Is like I made mine, and and Curly
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Bill's like, uh, I'm gonna go talk to this other
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: guy over here.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Okay, I say that's the difference is the cowboys are
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: menacing as a group, Bean as menacing as an individual.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Good point. Excellent point. Excellent point. I'm going to say
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: that that a person who gets very there are two
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: people here, I think who get very overlooked. One of
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: my favorite modern character actors is Stephen Lang. He disappears
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: into his roles. It took me for ever to realize
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that I had seen him in other roles in Ike Clanton,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: and once it unlocked, I went, holy crap, that's Stephen Lang.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And then when I saw him an avatar, I was like,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: thank you, James Cameron. I love that guy. He plays
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a great villain, but here he is unrecognizable. You absolutely
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: like I think.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: He's always forget it's him. I always forget it's him,
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: law dog, you know I mean.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: And and the thing we talk about the way people
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: play against each other acting partners. When he's gonna rush
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: IRP and puts the gun on his head, he's like
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the turn your head into a canoe, and everyone's like, oh,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: he's bluffing, and Ike is the one that goes no,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: he ain't back up. He's like he knows IRP will
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: kill him just to make a point, and he plays
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: that scene so perfectly. But I think that key to
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: irp's journey is Dana Delany's performance as Josephine. I have
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: to believe that this is a woman that you could
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: fall in love with that quickly, and even though this
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: is not a visual medium. Tristan disagrees with me. Tristan,
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: please tell us why you're wrong.
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: I'm not okay, Okay, I'm not hard and fast against
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: Dana Jelaty. I love Dana Jelaney. She's a fantastic actress.
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: I love her and everything that she's in and I
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: liked her in this one. I think it's great, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: it almost like by the time we get to the
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: end and they're dancing in the snow, it feels unearnedo.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, completely disagree. Oh I couldn't. If I disagreed more,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I would. I would fold in on myself like a
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: black hole and then come back out in another dimension
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: like Christopher Nolan, just to disagree with you again.
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: Okay, I want I am, I am not, I'm not.
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: I'm not a bastard on this, like I want to
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: hear your opinion. Okay, So why why do you like
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: it so much?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: He goes back to the two moments, in specific when
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: they go off to the meadow for the picnic, I
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: believe her falling for Wyatt. I believe Wyatt falling for her.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: And I think it's the key part of that is
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: because she plays a naturally engaging and interesting woman that
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I believe that this very masculine man would be gentle.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: For He plays as an equal.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: See her pulling that side out of him that he
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to give. He doesn't want to give that
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: side to Maddie. He's married to Maddie because you're supposed
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: to be married, and he picked the wrong woman and
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: they have no chemistry or anything like that. So when
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I see him with Josephine the way Delaney plays it,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: specifically in that picnic scene, I believe in them as
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: a couple. I believe that Wyatt legitimately is falling for her,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: not just because the script calls for it, but because
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: he cares. This is a woman he could care for,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: This is a woman he can respect the way that
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: he needs to sort of thing, you know. I think
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: that the chemistry between Russell and Deliney winds up being
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: so strong, and I think is very necessary because what
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Wyatt does with Maddie. He's kind of a bastard with that, right,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: and they give him in the director's cut, I think
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: an extra moment where you see him sort of realize
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: what an a hole he's being. And then at the end, Well,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: the other thing that makes me feel that the end
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: is earned is probably a trick of the editing more
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: than anything, but the look she gives Wyatt when she
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: sees him in the audience when he's watching Faust. I
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: believe that moment too. I believe that she's looking at
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: him and there's a spark that she's inviting him to,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: you know, to open up to her. And you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: obviously editing plays, you know, a big role in that
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and everything. But I think that I've always loved Delaney's
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: performance in this. I think that she's I think that
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: she is key to making me believe that found somebody
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: that he could truly love and connect with.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: So that's my two cents.
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: I'm not gonna argue it. I'm not going to argue it.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: That's because because I liked Delaney. It's just I don't know,
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: I just I wish there was more time spent together, honestly,
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: between the two of them. I think that's the main thing.
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: And also I just felt kind of weird because he
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: left his wife behind and then in an epilogue we
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: get she Sudard not soon after the events of even Tumstone.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, they they have a line
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: that I think, Darren, did you pick up on the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: line about where they all found their wives?
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they talked about, well, he sees what he sees
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: someone new and then they're like, where do you find yours?
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Like where we all found ours? Like yeah, and I
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: couldn't never tell where, but they it was obviously some
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: sort of joke.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that there's Tristan. How did
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: you take that joke? Because I know how I interpreted
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: that moment, I don't know.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: I honestly don't know. I mean, like they I had
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: so much face blindness with the three of them. They
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: they dressed the same, they look the same. I know
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: that they're three different women, but I was just.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Like, I am true, the women did kind of all.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: I kept almost thinking everyone was like Helen Hunt or
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: like Jodie Foster, like they all kind of looked but
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: not like they Yeah, they all kind of blurred.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: But see, I think I think that even plays into
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the Josephine part is because she even visually looks and
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: plays different. It shows how the Irt boys all had
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: an idea of the woman they were supposed to marry,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: and why it was always the one, you know, to quote,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: you know, to quote Sam Elliott's Virgil. It was like, yeah,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: you know what they say, MA love this all. He goes, Yeah,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: but she doted on the she doted on you. I
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: forget the exact line, but like I think, I think
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: it's important to show that like Wyatt was never meant
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: to follow the same path. I always took it that
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: they found their wives as working jobs that wouldn't necessarily
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: be the place that you would expect men of men
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: of the law to find wives, if you will. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: always took it as that type of joke. Maybe I'm
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: reading too much into it. Houses avill repute Tristan, as
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: you give me that look that they.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: Found, I mean, I thought that's what you were talking about.
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: I don't think so at all.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: I never got I could I could be wrong.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: No, you you're wrong on that one.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, feel free you know what.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Everybody can reach out to us at the nerd Party
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: dot com slash. I think House of Fincher is actually
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: what our our U R L is.
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: It's true. I've never changed.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Our our are probably you know what we're too, We're
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: we're committed to the bit at this point, you know,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: so who you know, somebody's gonna look that feet up
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and they're gonna be like, who did David Fincher directed
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: that many movies?
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: It's shocking. But anyway, I I'm perfectly happy with being
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: wrong with that read.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: But that's that's actually how I've always read that that
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: that specific. I didn't think they found them at their
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: church group, let's put it that way. Maybe they just
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: found them in the saloons, as it were. But I
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: think that, you know, moving on from that, I will
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: always give Dan Delaney a lot of credit. I think
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Powers Booth gets overlooked, and I think it's it very
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: much has to do with that core relationship between Wyatt
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: and Doc and Darren. Do you think that that's that's
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: key to why Tombstone has found so much longevity because
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: it did get lost in the holiday shuffle when it
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: was released in theaters. It did okay, it did fine,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: but it never broke past number three. I think that
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: whoever planned the release of this movie was an it
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: it But you know that's just me.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: They were rushing.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Came out on Christmas Day ninety three. Yeah, no, I
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: mean from what I've read, you know, you talked about
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: them cutting down white are scenes, but I think they
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: also cut down a lot of like subplots and side
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: plots and just focused on the you know, the the
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Doc and Wyatt connection, you know, that friendship. Like we
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: see a bit of that friendship in a different way
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: every act. You know, it's kind of different in the
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: first time we see them together, and then in the
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: middle where things are going bad, and then in the end,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: you know, at the end of his I mean, he
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: saves his life. He literally, you know, like him showing
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: up to fight Michael Beani saves why it's life. But
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: all that to say, yeah, it it's a dynamic. But yeah,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know exactly why this wouldn't do well for
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: the box office, Like I don't see anything wrong with
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: it intrinsically, except for maybe just a crowded space. And
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: it's you know, it's one hundred and thirty minutes, so
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: over two hours. Takes a bit of time.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean for sure when it when it came out,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: it was, oh my gosh, it never broke number three,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: and it was I think it was the Pelican Yeah,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: it was the Pelican Brief and Missus Doubtfire beat it.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Missus Doubtfire was a phenomenon at the time that it
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: came out.
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: If you weren't alive at the time, you have no idea.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Robin Williams playing an elderly British woman watching his own kids,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: like you know that that's basically family movie gold. You're
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: basically just printing money at that point. And the Pelican
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Brief has been forgotten. But they shot part of that
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: at a food court in a mall that I went
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: to that was not in fact in DC.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: It was in Wheat and Missus Doubtfire was still the
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: number one movie in December and it came out November
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: twenty fourth.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yep, so it it just held. You also had Sister
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Act two coming out, you know, you had a lot
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: of comedies, and I think people kind of gravitated towards
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: that when because you know, Tombstone, I mean being honest, like,
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Tombstone is probably you watch with the boys, or you
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: watch with your son, like I don't think you're necessarily
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: going to be like, let's take the family to the phone.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah that Hey, it's Christmas, let's pick a movie
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to go watch. We can go watch Missus Doubtfire and
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: everybody's you know, in love with this inoffensive comedy where
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Robin Williams does his stick, or we can go watch
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: people shoot each other in the desert.
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I think that's probably probably fair. Although when the film
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: came out, its revenue increased thirty five percent between week
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: one and week two, so go oord of mouth, right,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And we are so used to the tent poles nowadays
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: where it's like it's going to drop by sixty to
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: seventy percent and if it if it holds at fifty five,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: that's really good. And it's like, imagine a time, kids,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: where a movie could do better in its second weekend
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: then it's first. It's kind of a crazy time. We
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: were all out of our minds. But then not everything
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: even had stadium seating back in ninety three. But I
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: think that one of the things that might have some
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: staying power is simply the fact that this is a
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: movie that really leans into that friendship that is, you know,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: maybe it is a masculine thing. I don't know, but
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Wyatt and and Doc never have that moment where they
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: break down tearfully or anything like that. Even in Doc's death,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: he's basically telling why it get out, I don't want
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you to see me weak. And there's there's sort of
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: like a it's it's sort of a dynamic that Tristan.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Do you think it's a similar dynamic to what we
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: see in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood from Tarantino? No, no, okay, no.
• 40:01
  Speaker 5: I think it's. I think it's deeper than that. I
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: think it's I think it's much deeper than that. I mean,
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: oddly enough, it's Kurt Russell narrating that relationship. What God
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: what what? What does Russell say? I've basically described you
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: and me that way?
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Oh oh, for yeah, what's the happen in Hollywood? Not
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: you know, not wives, but something more than brothers?
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: No something? No?
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: No, yeah, it was like not not more than a brother,
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: but less than a wife.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's the one that's the line. Yeah, yep, yep uh.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: I think in theory like I think in theory, it's
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: similar like the way that Russell describes it in Once
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: upon a Time, in Hollywood. But I think in practice
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: Holiday and are much closer than Pitt and DiCaprio because
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: I think the power dynamic is different. Yes, I think
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: that's probably the main thing that's that's the separation between Like,
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: I get what you're saying, I get why you would
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: think that, but me personally, I think IRP and Holiday
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: are closer.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: No, that I mean, that's completely fair, you know, I
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: think that probably. I mean there's a scene that really
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I think that one of the things, and Darren tell
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: me if I'm going off the rails here that I
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: think one of the key scenes that causes this movie
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: to really land a certain way with a lot of
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: people is that, in terms of the dynamic, sometimes you're
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Wyatt and sometimes you're Doc, where Wyatt is he's the
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: oak to.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: Borrow from Doc.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And then sometimes you feel like Doc where somebody you know,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: why are you doing this Doc? Because Wyatt Earp is
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: my friend. Hell I got lots of friends, I don't
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: you know. There's there's that sort of thing where you
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: understand that you're loved in spite of all of the
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: flaws that you might have. Do you think that's the
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: key Do you think that's why this film continues to
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: resonate through time.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's the four of them. It's your
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: seeing brotherly love between him and his two brothers, and
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: you get, you know, the death of his brother hits him,
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I think harder than it would have if Doc had died.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: Like he's still like he's very close to Doc. But
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: there's a difference when it's like, you know, grown up
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: with brother and I don't know how soon you know
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: they knew each other with him and Doc. But but yeah,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: the fact that this movie explores that, you know, and
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: and Doc Holliday, I mean it's it's it's almost sad
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: because I feel like Sam Elliott is almost not there.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: I mean he's he's been, he's he's around, but I'm
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: assuming he was the elder brother yea, because he was okay,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: but he's just any any bit that he would have
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: kind of feels like it's absorbed by Doc Holiday and
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: then that's just how it shakes out in the story.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: But uh, yeah, as all that to say, I think
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: that is the biggest strength of this movie is I mean,
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: there's dynamic acting happening on screen and you are just
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: engrossed in this tale of brothers, both you know, biological
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: and you know and spiritual brothers. Really, but this movie
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: also conveys not the threat, but it conveys the danger
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: of the West better than many other Westerns do because
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: it's it's it strives the line of anybody could shoot
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: anybody at any moment because we all have guns and
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: who knows. But it's like, no, no, there is a
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: sense of you know, everything's a calculation. It's if I
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: push you, or I insult you, or if I go
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: up to you without my friends, or if you are
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: caught alone, all of these factors, like every encounter is
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: like it's not just brawn and might, it's psychological. It's
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: like I said before, it's reading the other person. And
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: this movie does it so well and it's so well acted,
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: because you could try to put that on screen with
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: lesser actors and not get it at all. But I
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: think that is the best strength of this movie is
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: that it conveys not only the sense of what's going
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: on inside people without monologue and overt dialogue. It conveys that,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: but it also conveys just the danger of the risk
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: of the frontier, and that's not the focus of some
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: other movies, and they don't, not in every Western has
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: to hit that stride, but Tombstone does, and I think
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: that's what makes it a masterpiece.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: I love everything you're saying there, I really.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Do, so I get them on my side trists, and
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: I just butter them up with all the all the things.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: Other I love that. I think that.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: What I'll share is I don't even really remember the
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: first time I saw this film. What I remember was
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: there was a time in college we had a movie
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: theater and they had a thing called the Shootout at
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: the Hoff Because, as we mentioned before, Tombstone was released,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: you know, shortly before Wyatt Up and Wyatt Arp was
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: supposed to be the thinking man's Oscar contender sort of movie.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: This is this is the serious, historically accurate film about Wyattup.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: And that's why we called it. Wyat Up and Tombstone's
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: just about a moment in time sort of thing. And
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: what they did, very wisely was they showed wyatt first,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: and then they had Tombstone following it, and then the
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: audience got to vote afterward as to which movie was better.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Spoilers Tombstone one hands down. Wyatt Arp is the movie
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: that I think Jara had in his head because the
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: script was cut down when he left the project, like
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Russell sat down and said, Okay, this script is too much,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: and it was too much for this guy, probably going
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: to be too much for anybody that comes in. So
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: let's cut it down and streamline this thing. And I
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: think that Wyatt up is an example of why, especially
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: with Westerns, it's so tricky to show the time accurately,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: because these people weren't all great. But when we go
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: to a Western, when we go to a lot of movies,
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: we want to see a heroic tale, and Tombstone, to
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: borrow a line from Liberty Valance, this is the West.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: We print the legend, and I think Tombstone resonates because
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: we want the legend. We want to emphasize the things
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: that make us feel like even if we're not particularly
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: good people, even if we feel like Doc Holiday, sometimes
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: we're capable of being there to do good things and
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: necessary things, even if we're the lesser of two evils
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in a situation where at least the lesser of those
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: two evils. I think that's probably why it resonates. I mean,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Tristan Darren like like I feel like I could go
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: on for a whole other hour about Tombstone. I adore
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: this film. Spoilers for where I'm gonna go with my
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: rating next. I know this film so well that I
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: would I would rank it up there with a Star
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Wars or something like that, where it's like, if you start,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: I might not get every line right, but if you
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: drop a line, I can tell you what scene you're
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: in and I can get it back to you. And
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: so it's very difficult for me to be to point
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: out problems. But since we are rounding third, Tristan, aside
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: from your hatred of Dana Delaney, what flaws do you
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: see in Tombstone?
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: Oh, it takes a little bit to get going. It
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: takes just a little bit to get going. And honestly,
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: I think that's probably my main gripe is I just
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: get a little impatient, and I don't really think that
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: that's the movie's fault. I honestly think that's mine. I
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: think lately, if you asked me that before we did
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: The House of Cosmotose, I probably wouldn't have argued that.
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: I probably wouldn't have said it takes a little bit
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: to get going. But just because we watch Leviathan, and
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: nothing happened until the third act. I'm like, when we
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: get to Tombstone, I'm like, Okay, what are we doing, Like,
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: let's get going. So I feel like, yeah, I do.
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: Like how the Okay Corral isn't the end all be all.
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: That's not the end of the movie. That's actually the
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: beginning of like that that's the rising action is the
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: Okay Corral. And I think a lesser storyteller would have
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: made that the ending. And I think I laugh out
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: loud when Russell goes no, no, no, Like I laughed
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: so hard during that scene. It's so poorly done it
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: it takes me completely out of it, and I feel
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: like this is something that should have been cut or
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: drawn back, like put taken back to the drawing board.
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: There's and also I would have liked a little bit
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: more fleshed out Daniel Delaney Apparently there is footage of
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: and you can see it in the trailer of IERP
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: and Daniel Delaney's character going at it, like when they
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: run into each other on horseback, which I think is interesting.
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: And I'm glad that they cut that because I don't
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: want to see that, Like I don't I don't want
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: to see irp on even though like his wife is
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: a drug drug addict, I don't want to see him
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: be completely unfaithful.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Agreed.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Agreed, Darren, What you know? What short comings do you see?
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Is there any problem with the score? Is there something
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: about you know, some the way some scene is put
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: together that doesn't work for you? And and just real quick,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: isn't it delightful to invert things? And instead of beat
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: up on.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: Something, discussions positive and yeah, sketching her head for the downside?
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: What a pleasant?
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: What a pleasant? Like last week?
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: No, who made us watch that? Geeesh? But yeah no,
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: I mean overall, it's hard to pick something out. I was,
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: you know, I was reading through White because I was curious.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: I've never seen that one, and I was looking at
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: the movie. I'm like, oh, that's where the other half
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: of the nineteen ninety three stars went, you know, and
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: all the people who were in that movie. But one
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: negative I heard some people said about this one was
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: just the size of the cast, like the fact that
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: there are Like I said that they were all definitive
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: and you could kind of tell them apart. And I
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: think for others it felt like there's so many people
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: that we interact with, and it instead of like a
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: bad guy, which we have a bad guy, we have
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: a leader obviously and Michael Bean. So I didn't necessarily
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: see that as a negative of too many characters to track.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: For me, it just felt like a town, like a
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: full set of people that would live here. I think
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: if I had, like, probably like what I said about
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Sam Elliott, it it felt like he wasn't utilized enough,
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: maybe I would have liked more brother time you know
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: of them, because you know, even the other two brothers
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: are the ones that like, you know, join up and
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: get sworn in before him, and they're kind of they're
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: kind of on their own through a lot of this,
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: uh and because it's not like why it's the elder brother.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: So I guess if I had to say, one thing
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: that kind of disappointed me a little bit was I
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: would have liked to have seen more more of that
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: brother's dynamic because I think it was kind of one note.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like a little bit of elder but
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: he's not really around and he's like, I've given up
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: controlling you because you're gonna do what you want to do.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: And then you have you know, Bill Paxton kind of
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: like I've never is a finding thing as I've never
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: killed a man, and then that goes away, and it's
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: just I would have liked more. But that's just enjoy
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: the characters and wanting more of them, which in itself
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: isn't a bad thing.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I you know, I appreciate appreciating you guys are saying,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: and I would say that for any of the problems
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: that I have. It's like when you have just an
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: incredible meal and then there's something on the side, like
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: the vegetables, like they put like some sort of seizing
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: on them, and you're like, eh, I would have preferred
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: this instead of that. But like the entire thing is,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: you're just like I tend to forget anything that I
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: have a specific problem with. I don't laugh during the know,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: but we all know that I'm softer on those things.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: You know, people saying no, like I get in that moment,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I like them, even though I know that the know
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: is something I know shouldn't be a know the way
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the no plays, so you know, you.
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: Know, it's not talking about Revenge of the Sith, right,
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: because that one is just terrible, And.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: I punch you in the chest the next time you
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: ever say that. So I and I'll die on that hill.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And uh so, basically I think we're coming in and
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: it's just a question of how far up on the
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: scale we go with Tombstone and Darren and where we
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: find Lance Oh, oh my gosh, that's right, where we
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: find Lance Reddick, which.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: I saw the stars your eyes you were you were
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: already head and oh my gosh.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: That is a difficult call in a a film like Tombstone,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: but we do. We do blindness on this one. It's
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: simply we just go in and just like Lance Reddick
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: as an actor, what role would he have been fantastic in? So, Darren,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: I will toss that to you first. Where do you
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: see Lance Redick in here?
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: I'll need your help identifying the name because I know
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: his role. But this was the county sheriff. I would
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: make him that because he was kind of a foil,
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: kind of you know.
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: John John Tenny began began.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, yeah, Johnny Bean, Yes, that's right, sheriff Johnny Bean.
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, John Tay.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: I'd had There's a lot of sheriffs, so I couldn't
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: isolate him from the list. So yeah, I liked that
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: because you know, he's kind of like, oh, welcome to town.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm gonna kind of, you know, work my
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: way into this your life. And then at the end
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: he's you know, he's kind of betraying everybody. He's just
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: so overall. I liked the course of that role, and
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I think Lance Reddick would have been an amazing in that.
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: That's fair, Tristan, how about you?
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: As much as I friggin love Powers Booth, oh, I
• 54:41
  Speaker 5: think I think Reddick would have made an amazing Curly Bill,
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: Like especially when you when you see the scene when
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: Billy Zane's on stage and Curly asked being about well,
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: ask Ringo about making a deal with the devil, like
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: I I could see Lance redd Like when Ringo says
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: like I did and I co a deal with the devil,
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: I could see Lance Reddick going okay, okay, like leaning.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Back, Yeah, that's fair.
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: Both of those are fair.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: I would actually, as much as we always overqualify these things,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: but why not, I'll follow a suit. I love Michael Rooker.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I think Michael Rooker is an incredible actor. Every time
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: he shows up on screen, I smile because I'm like, oh, yay,
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Michael Rooker. But I would put Lance Reddick in as
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Sherman McMasters, who's Michael Rooker's character, especially in the director's cut,
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: because I believe that Lance Reddick would have done a
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: beautiful thing with the scene where he goes and talks
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: to Ringo and Clinton puts the gun in his face
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: and says, how are you going to get back to them?
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I think that that Reddick would be extremely adept at
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: playing somebody who was always a little morally conflicted with
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: the life that he was leading, and then one day
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: he was like, no, I got to join the good
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: guys at this point, and I think he could have
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: played that turn very well, as much as I love
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Michael Rooker. So now that we have gone through our
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: choices for Reddick, Darren per the contract that you signed
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: when you joined house Lights, where.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: You send my mon deal with that contract.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: I must always be the first person to give my.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Rating, and I don't remember signing that.
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: But uh, you know what, I've lost the paperwork. It's
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: somewhere I'll find.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: The contracts never valid when I'm hosting and I make
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: you guys go first.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's interesting, it's really weird how how
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: that works out. So, but Darren, out of out of
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: five stars, where do you rank Tombstone from nineteen ninety three,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: directed quote unquote by George P.
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Kuzmatos.
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, I mean we've all caveated the directing on this,
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: but at the end of the day, you know, I
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: think we have to give him as much credit as
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: we can can for, if not just for what Tristan
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: said of he pulled those performances out. You can't do
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: that from the sideline, from giving script notes and you know, storyboards.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: That is the person behind the camera who's seeing what's
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: happening and pulling it together. So I definitely want to
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: give him all credit for that. I'm going to give
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: it a five. I will watch this again. I will
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: probably find a physical copy to buy and to keep
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: on the shelf. You know, one day, have Darren Junior
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: now my son's name, you know, and share this with him,
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: because it's the thing is as as extreme and you know,
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: kind of as actiony and bloody of a movie it is,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: it's actually relatively tame. Like in the bigger scheme, like
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: there's no you know, cut off head or gut. Like, yeah,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: there's obviously blood and guts, and it's not a kid movie,
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: but it's it's a nineties movie. It feels like that.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: So I'm giving it five I do. I know we're
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: still in final final jeopardy here, but I did have
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: one more question for you, John, So we never talked
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: about it. What are the differences of the director's edition? Like,
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: is it longer?
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Is it completely it's slightly longer they I think they
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: say it's nine minutes longer, but it's six minutes, And yeah,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: you have this, do you have an extra scene with
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: McMasters going and you find out what happens to him?
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: There's a scene with Kate where I'm just curious where
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Doc leaves Kate. As a matter of fact, there is
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: actually a very minute difference, a strange difference with when
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: the stage coach leaves with Louisa on it. The shot
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: of the stage coach leaving is different, and it I
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: think it's because of the way that it stitches together
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: with the following scene, like it goes straight, whereas in
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: the theatrical version it turns.
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: Left or something like.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: It's it's such a minute thing where it's like I'd
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: be hard pressed to like draw you a picture of
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: how they're different, and I, if I recall correctly, there
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: is the there is a scene with Maddie that's extra
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: or it's or it's longer where she kind of calls
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Wyatt to the mat about how she how he is
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: treating her, and Wyatt shows like remorse about the fact
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: that he realizes he's kind of being a bastard with
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: their relationship. And then there is an extra scene of
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Doc Holliday where he quotes Kubla Khan after Wyatt has
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: you know, broken down after his brother has been shot,
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: after Bill Paxton dies, and he quotes you know, some
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: some poem that's it's really beautiful, but like it's one
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: of those things where it's really beautiful, but then you
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: look at it and you say, I can understand why
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: you cut this. It's sort of like it's not a
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: bad scene, but for pacing and for you know, tempo.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I could see removing it in tone, but I don't
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: mind it. But I don't mind it being there, you know,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Like it's one of those weird, weird sorts of things.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: And I think there are a couple of a couple
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: of small shot.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: It's curious because sometimes it's like, oh, this is completely
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: different and sometimes it's like it's slightly different in it
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: a little longer.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: It's not like James Cameron's The Abyss, where it's like
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: that's okay, but oh my lord, the extended version. Whoa,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: that's a totally different ending. Yeah, so I think you know,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I would give the same.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: Rating to both. Let's put it that way.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: So, uh, you know what, I'll go ahead, We'll end
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: with Tristan because I always like to end with a downer,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: and I too, am going to give this five stars.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: I adore this film.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: I love this film, and I love this film because
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: it embraces the fact that it's telling a legend, the
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: fact that it's just unabashedly saying, oh, Effett, who cares
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: about your historical accuracy or anything like that. We're going
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: to show you something that's super compelling. And then at
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: the end you're going to be happy because your main
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: character got away in the end and he's happy, and
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: we're all happy right now, and everything's fine, and Robert
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Mitcham can come in and say, hey, everything's happy.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: I like that. I prefer that.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want the downer of Wyatt Earp starring Kevin Costner,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: where I'm kind of like, at the end.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: Of like, how am I supposed to feel about this?
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: Dude?
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I like the idea of leaning into it and saying,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: you know what, at the end of the day, for
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: all of his problems, Wyatt Earp is a legend.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: For a reason.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: And so that's five stars from me, Tristan, bring us
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: home or disappoint us, whichever you feel.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 5: The way to do. I want to give this four
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 5: and a half stars because I do not think this
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: is a perfect movie. I think this is a fantastic movie.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: I love this movie. I've watched it several times. I'll
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: watch it again, but I do have issues with it,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: and there's you know, the things that I've talked about,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: and so it's I can't give it a five stars
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: because I do have issues with it. But I'm given
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: this four and a half because it's a fan frigantastic film.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: Fair enough, fair enough.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Someday it'll be a five for you, and we accept
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: will be there for you when it happens. But speaking
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: of being there when things happen, Darren, I think we
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: have a special episode next. Why don't you tell people
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: what to expect from House Lights?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: That's right, as we wrap up the House of Cosmotos.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: Next week is our two hundredth episode, quite the milestone
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: for any podcast, so we're going to do something special
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: here in house Lights, talking about our five most influential
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: films to us.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Next time on house Lights, Join the Revolution, Join the
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: net Party.