Latest / The Captains Council Podcast / Las vulnerabilidades en la defensa del espacio aéreo dominicano (1era. parte)
Transcript
- Capt. Francisco Díaz: Well, truth is that today we have a lot. What we will do is that we this episode into two. This week's is dedicated to the drug trafficking and next week we talk about the challenges or the latent in the region. Good morning, friends. Today we are by the of licensed Pellegrin Castillo Semán, who has a long political career centered on the defense of national interests. Professor Castillo is licensed in law at the Pedro Enrique Sureña a diplomat of international relations and integration at the Santo Domingo INTEC. with the subject of drones, illicit etc. So, thank very much for joining us. Thank you much to our guest, Mr. Pellegrín Castillo, who will enjoy the second part next week. Postgraduate of International and Foreign Trade from the University of Barcelona, INTEC. Program for Directors in Design and of Policies and the Program for Social Projects of the BID and INTEC. In his political was Member of the National for 10 years, from 1994 to 2014, where he was President of the Permanent of the Chamber of Deputies for Industry and Commerce, Energy and Mines. and and ⁓ when that ministry and has served as a constitutional law professor, Law History of Political Ideas, Administrative and Law of the Sea. He is a professor of Dominic-Aitian at the military studies of the Ministry of Defense. Currently, first Vice President of the National Progressive Thank you much, Mr. Pellegrín, for being here with us. Pelegrin Horacio: Thank you very Francisco for the invitation. I feel very pleased to be in your space and more so to deal with these issues of high national I make a precision, currently I am president of the Progressive and vice president of the Union of Latin American IDU. It is a new responsibility and I am leading the Geopolitics and International of the University of the Caribbean. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Excellent, thank you much. let's go straight to the topic. Today we talk about the vulnerabilities in the Dominican As you know, the whole airspace is the topic in which we develop and you have always a proponent of trying to modernize and better control that part of the national I would to start by talking about the definition of what the aerial Before I a pilot, studied law in the Pucamaymas. I remember that I followed you when you talked about issue of sea law and the archipelago Or archipelagical, it's called. Archipelagical. So let's start with that, with the definition of what the aerial is according to the constitution and the law and everything else. Well, the constitution establishes, in which you were part, as we said, Pelegrin Horacio: True. Good luck. Capt. Francisco Díaz: of the assemblymen who participated in the creation of the new constitution. its article 9, about the national it the territory of the Dominican is inalienable and is made up by, and in paragraph 3, the air space over the national the electromagnetic and the space where it acts. The law will regulate the use of these spaces of conformity. Pelegrin Horacio: . Capt. Francisco Díaz: with So, the terrestrial and maritime know that the terrestrial is the space of the island, or the Dominican part of Santo Domingo and the sea are the two nautical of the coast. So, all the airspace from there up. Exterior? Yes. Pelegrin Horacio: in these dimensions, in the national territory. It's 48,000 kilometers away here. On the territorial sea, is 12 miles, 12 nautical which is 20 kilometers, along the entire length our when adopting the definition of archipelagic the territorial sea is from the archipelagic And therefore, the archipelagic give us a special about those waters that are not exactly similar to the territorial the but they water of full However, are number of rules that restrict the capacity of the state to regulate both air and maritime So, obviously, that can also be projected towards what is called the Contiguous is an area, along with the territorial sea, where the state is able to exercise police and surveillance that have to do with the control of illicit close to its territory. So that is the airspace we have. And obviously, When we started to deal with these issues, we it because we were informed of a series of that were taking place where was very clear that the Dominican state had lost control of its maritime and air And I want to refer to a fact, Que vivimos en el año 2005, 2006. No tengo precisión de fecha, pero sí recuerdo perfectamente. A mí me informó un diplomático dominicano que el gobierno dominicano había sido informado por el gobierno haitiano. that the of the South of the States had told Haitians that the operations of the transnational were not being directed mainly to Haiti, but they were directly to the Dominican Republic and entering the air and maritime and showing a map and filmic images. mapas horribles donde se veía lo que eran los movimientos anuales de lanchas y aviones hacia el territorio dominicano. Recuerdo que el presidente Fernández informado de esa situación decidió convocar una conferencia regional creo que se dio en el 2005-2006, sin más no recuerdo convocó a todos los países de la región y a los Estados Unidos para abordar el tema of the air and maritime around the Caribbean. There, at that conference, all the states committed to adopting policies to cut that traffic, to paralyze that traffic. That was a first-rate that when I analyzed with active and in-retirement they told us that the biggest is that we have lost control. the space for because of of technological because of the of planes and radar that would allow that control. That is an important to keep in mind. After that international that was organized here in Santo Domingo, I remember that the Americans set up a very far from the that we have seen now. Naval was simply a helicopter and some frigates, some high-altitude It reinforced by England and France patrols and think also Holland, who were going to have surveillance in an area. And while that activity the transit of planes and ships Because the fact that there was a helicopter with the radar teams operating there, supported by drones of high surveillance, limited the operations of drug trafficking. That, in good measure, was giving that operation of the Caribbean as a subsidiary a secondary of the execution of the Plan Colombia. When the North American to apply in ⁓ Colombia, Colombia, along with the North American the drugs originally went to Central America. Basically, Honduras and from Honduras to Mexico, and from Mexico to the United States. By putting controls in that area, with the Plan Colombia, displacement to the Caribbean island increased. Brutalmente. Entonces, quedó evidenciado primero que el problema era real. Aquí yo tuve mucho contacto con la asociación de pilotos y mucho contacto con la asociación de operadores de radares, de controladores aéreos. Allá en la Cámara de Dictado tuvimos varias reuniones y nos informaron a mí y a otros diputados el problema que había porque It was something that could even put air navigation in because there were planes that came with the transport turned off, they entered the airspace. Obviously, were difficulties to know where those planes and they appeared, throwing drugs in the sea, throwing drugs on the coast, throwing drugs even in the highways, or several cases of planes landing on the same highway. That put the country in a very difficult very difficult. The armed forces, under the leadership of Minister Soto Jiménez, had already designed a plan to strengthen the capacities of the Dominican Republic on this issue. That plan included the acquisition of planes appropriate for the policy of intercepting. The plan to planes that were functional, that were not of high cost. There was opposition to buying the Tucanos. by the interest of the United States. This had been preceded by a debate that took place in the government of president of the community. When the Dominican government wanted to some helicopters to France and Brazil, a radical from a series of sectors, businessmen, and the very Parisian opposition opposed it. And the Dominican government left that operation without executing. It was an alliance between Brazil, France and the United States. And seems that were interests that were claiming that an international was for the acquisition of those helicopters. I think were to make about 20 helicopters of great effectiveness. and I don't know if would like it. The point is that when the change of government the government and the political community, the enlistment and yet, due to political there an alignment, especially after 9-11, very clear, with the United States and the country acquired helicopters directly without enlistment. No, no reclamo a que se fuera a la licitación. Eso tiene su sentido en un escenario como el que estábamos viviendo y tomando en cuenta los intereses de seguridad y los aliados estratégicos de siempre. Ahora, ¿qué pasa? Capt. Francisco Díaz: I understand that the United States has donated F-5 with a command center in the Air that was controlled by the States. That use of those aircraft was controlled by the United States. Pelegrin Horacio: See. Yes, that was a point of discord. There a proposal to buy jet According to the information that was presented to in the Chamber of Deputies, the problem with those planes was the operating of those planes. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Because the Dominican Republic was about to the famous A37s were ending their... Pelegrin Horacio: In the end, the government the Ipanema region, well, we were virtually without planes because the two operatives that were there were in condition to operate. A turbine which gave rise to great scandal. A turbine of an A37 was sold to Colombia, but was a negative from United States to sell. the ejectors of the pilots to try to catch those same planes, preserve them and... Capt. Francisco Díaz: Do you remember if that time had happened the fall by mistake of the Peruvian of an American Cessna in Peru that caused lot of controversy here in United States? Pelegrin Horacio: Mira, yo creo que fue más o menos para esa... It was said that the warning signs been and that they had shot down 10 planes. And when one down, a family of North American shepherds, the reaction of the American people was against it. Capt. Francisco Díaz: There was even a US Congress The US had been out, I think since early 90s, a program called, I think in Spanish it would Puente Roto, English it was called Bridge Denial. So this program was in South America, mainly in Bolivia, Peru, which was where the issue of cocaine Pelegrin Horacio: See. Speak. Thank you. They were trying to the routes to Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia. And since most of the transport of the coca was done by that route, was correct to apply that policy, but applying the protocol. But they weren't applying So the blue exploded. Capt. Francisco Díaz: No Colombia, exacto. I'll ya. I remember reading that the Department of Defense did want to in this and the who takes the reins is the CIA. Pelegrin Horacio: Well, precisely the CIA... Iconic, which has many stories in the history of the CIA. They seem to have not had much control. They simply started a policy of berribo. And I that caused a crisis when the plane was American. And there were North American and the Congressmen the American Capt. Francisco Díaz: Claro, claro. Pelegrin Horacio: And they found out that the North American radar... were the who gave the information to the Peruvian for the operation of Berri. Of course. Capt. Francisco Díaz: Because that's how it done. It's good to clarify that those who were the air of those countries. The United States helped identify, detect exactly. Pelegrin Horacio: to identify the suspicious because the flights that were identified, that entered the risk evidently they were made candidates to be intercepted and to apply the protocol of derribe. Here was a precedent that I not forget. que yo lo investigue un antecedente histórico famoso que data, si mal no recuerdo, fue a principios de los 90. O puede ser a finales de los 80, porque el ministro era entonces, el ministro de la Fuerza Armada era entonces el general Antonio Inver Barrera. Y Antonio Inver Barrera, He authorized, he himself confirmed it to the landing of a plane that entered the airspace, did identify, flew over the entire border of the Dominican was intercepted by the North American that was in Manacla. The A-37 went out to pursue it, it was pursuing it. I think they consulted Dr. Balaguer. There people who tell me that Dr. Balaguer but the direct came from General Antonio Vélez Barrera. The problem there, according what I able confirm, was that the fallout occurred when the plane had left the airspace of the Dominican and was fallen on Gran Indio. Capt. Francisco Díaz: the other side. Pelegrin Horacio: Yeah, yeah. to the Turks and Cajicos. So the plane shot him and there were no casualties. It seemed like a very close to the tail. It didn't destroy the plane. The plane came two American with 400 kilos of cocaine. So that determined a crisis in the security Capt. Francisco Díaz: See. I might have. Claro. Pelegrin Horacio: the that with radar that operation And above all, and there they right, that the rain occurred outside the areas of the territorial and the airspace on the territorial of the Dominican So it is good to it as precedent. Capt. Francisco Díaz: del espacio aéreo dominicano, claro. Pelegrin Horacio: Maybe I would do investigation. I spoke to Jacinto Peinado, who was the anti-drug at that time. Maybe from the National of Drugs, he was the senator who headed that commission. And was a theme that the Americans decided to the radar. It is clear if it was a retaliation because what was said was that offered Dr. Balaguer the sale and Dr. Balaguer understood that we needed but that it was a radar that was fundamentally to the United States and that instead of selling it The 5 million dollars, think it was the price, to donate There was a disagreement, so we ran out of radars. And when the government ran out of high resolution because were the airports radars. But the airports radars... Capt. Francisco Díaz: Love. Of because here have to a difference. It good to explain how they We have in aviation, we basically two types of radars, what we the primary and the secondary radar. So, as you say, the military is called three-dimensional, is a primary It detects, sends a signal that bounces from whatever is in the air and returns. So, Pelegrin Horacio: Thanks. Capt. Francisco Díaz: That primary doesn't tell you what type of plane it or anything like that, but it there is something and that you have to go and check. Of those are more modern can already measure speed, altitude and everything else. But it is a radar designed to detect aircraft or artifacts that may not want to detected, That is what is used in military illicit and everything else. And the secondary which is the radar that we in civil is the radar that sends an interrogation and the plane or the aircraft responds to As you said at beginning, the aircraft has a device called the transponder, which the that responds to the radar and then it a code that is assigned to the aircraft, the transponder which is like an identification, like a plate, And nowadays with transponders, the aircraft also sends its position speed, altitude, and everything else. secondary primary radars for air are not designed to search for planes that have the transponder turned off. An of this is what happened on September The radars that look inside the United States are air traffic radars, primary radars. They did not have military radars. looking inside the United States. That's why on September 11th, when terrorists take control of the aircraft, first thing they is turn off that transponder you mentioned, and it's very difficult for them air traffic control. That's why everything that happened that day Pelegrin Horacio: Correct. Muy buena explicación. Continuando, volviendo al 2006, ya había pasado el atentado 9-11, la Cámara de Diputados me comisionó a mí. Fue un honor porque eso no se hace normalmente. Por una decisión de todos los bloques me comisionaron para que elaborara el proyecto de ley. anti-terrorist so that the country was prepared with legislation to face the phenomenon of transnational terrorism we saw on September 2001. And I started working on that subject and for sake of that... The relates a lot to actors from international and friends who collaborate with the Dominican Republic in this matter, particularly with the people of Israel. And what happened? Well, we were advancing in the definition of legislation, we were called to United Nations. Well, basically, after the conference that was here Santo Domingo, a high-level visited Vienna for a meeting with Dr. Costa Pinto and his team, were responsible for the fight against terrorism, wash, drug trafficking, all the agendas. of high risk. And we went to Nations. In Vienna, the mission was by the Attorney General, the Minister of the and the and through the Congress was Senator Luis René Canahan, and we were three deputies. General Delgado, the Air retired, deputy of the Dominican Liberation and Deputy Bogard. the reformist and I as a proponent of the law. official for the visit was to discuss the approval of the anti-terrorist which had violated for a reason. There was a dispute between the institutional of the Secretariat of the Armed and the Interior Ministry. The Interior Minister understood that this policy had to be under control. of Interior and police. And we, in Congress, I particularly, our proposal was focused on both the anti-terrorist and the anti-terrorist being controlled by the direction of the armed because the argument was very simple. We did not have a terrorist activity as such. organized. You could perceive events that could be considered or assimilated to terrorist never on a large scale. We know that is a culture of protest here that combines methods and some can fall into the field of terrorism, for example, they burned a transport vehicle, technically. of terrorism. But here it was, let's say, element as part of the culture of protest of the Dominican So we that debate and we went to the United Nations, and many issues The issue the Haitian which was quite acidic, the discussion there, especially a discussion that we with the minister Almeida, and who speaks. And then the issue of not taking to a session which was for me one of the objectives of the visit was to ourselves, ourselves in front of picture that we were a kind of state open to transnational because they us a presentation of the number of and that were arriving interdaily. Diario, que cuando no llegaba un avión, llegaba un aracha, a República Dominicana. Y entonces, era un informe del Comando Sur. Yo recuerdo cuando llegué al país, retornamos del viaje, ahí todos. We discriminating against the United Nations, which was facing a problem that was transnational. It was facing a problem of discrimination against the Dominican And when we them, what is the support that is willing to the European Union, the United States, the United Nations clarified that they do not have budget. We have 40 million dollars for the intersector policy throughout the Caribbean. And we all agree because precisely any shipment, any return, the drug traffickers a value higher than 40 million dollars. And then they gave us, thinking about the like, well, what you going to do? When I arrived from Vienna, the first visit the other day, or two days, think. What did I I to the VNCD. I got information about how much the Americans were for the policy of interception, for support of the fight against drugs in land and sea. And they well, give us planes, they give us information about drones, give us information about radars, but the Colombians are the ones who are cooperating much more than the Americans. And they gave us a sum of about $11 million a to support the operations of Intercentrational, which was ridiculous. Ridiculous because they were not solving the problem. One saw the bad faith of the on the scene. Because what they saying was that you have become a narco-state. So I obviously When the insisted on buying the planes, I the Air Force and the I am willing to this purchase planes and radars because that also included, but with one condition, that this purchase of teams, not to for parades, on 27th. Because here we do parades and we the planes, now we are showing the planes that we are building, which is good, and we The other day I was in the Air and I even saw everything that is being done and it seems good to A step forward. Capt. Francisco Díaz: See. Pelegrin Horacio: in the process of strengthening the local but the was another. So I the Bel-Ai of maritime that had a title relative the ring. Capt. Francisco Díaz: It should be that most of countries in South America have law abduction. Pelegrin Horacio: Yes, Basically, we took the Brazilian the Peruvian the Colombian and we even saw the North American and said, well, let's prepare a bill that is attached to international But the most important about the bill was, and that it has a of influence right now with this debate, especially with the shield of America. There we basically declared the need for the exercise of legitimate defense of the state. Because we declared as an aggression the incursion of planes and ships for the transport of drugs to the Dominican It was a kind of war declared to the transnational and the need to the legitimate defense, is a right that all states have. In fact, was clear that for the Dominican it was a national security What happens when we the bill? I received a letter that was to personally from the North American I was shocked. I talked to my father, who was the president's in this matter. I don't even answer. Because it was a warning letter that if, in other words, you are not qualified to apply that policy, you cannot apply that policy and it with the interests of the United States, etc. etc. So obviously, we don't have the right. Capt. Francisco Díaz: that the same policy, we have to say, was applied throughout South America because were in South America, Colombia, dozens, not mention hundreds. Pelegrin Horacio: Of course, of course. Even Venezuela, during a period, was applying that with a special law that they approved for the abduction. What happens? When we submitted the debate, ⁓ the issue to the Chamber, was a certain opposition, a nervousness. I know, for example, that some... The of drug trafficking here in the country were worried, they didn't want to. It seems that had received the concern because when countries have a law that covers, and that was also to protect the armed and protect the pilots, because according to that law... Capt. Francisco Díaz: Yes, let me tell you that when the issue of the Peruvian fall, that in the community of mainly military brought a lot of concern because then the pilot of murder and it seems to that was even tried, it was in a criminal and I remember meeting with colleagues, pilots of the Dominican Air Pelegrin Horacio: to. Capt. Francisco Díaz: I'm talking lot after all this and to this day, to this day, that is a concern of them that if the fall if could be some criminal because is not clear in the law, that does exist. Pelegrin Horacio: Well, the law because the law was blocked. The law even established the obligation to record and film all operations and that the command of interception, there was a control center for the interception and of Berrigo. We all discussed with the teams of the Air and the Navy. I remember that Admiral Lee Ballester was the Navy to harmonize the position of the state. When we it... Capt. Francisco Díaz: And at that time, the National Pilot was the civil was formed. Pelegrin Horacio: The Pilot was also Pedro Dominguez officially supported the initiative. The of Air also agreed. So what happened? There was an unease among the narcos that one somehow felt, both because of purchase of planes Capt. Francisco Díaz: As he is. Pelegrin Horacio: the radar purchase as by law because the law was to a great coverage, a legal to the military at time of interception, at the time of derribe although the objective was not to derribe or sink, simply to have a instrument of dissuasion. Obviously, for the dissuasion to And has to be exercised regularly. It's unbelievable because if it work, it work. So what happened? Look how strange. There was a problem The Americans, after they were in the House of despite all the pressure and warnings they were making to all the bloc in the House Representatives, Capt. Francisco Díaz: Love. Pelegrin Horacio: and deputies, the Chamber almost unanimously it. Because we knew it was very serious And it went to the Senate. In the Senate, was given, and I have copies, I have to look them, that at some point we have to publish them, of a diplomatic that was to the Chancellery, where it was warned to the Dominican State that that legislation I was to cause a problem in the relations of the Dominican with the United States. Look at the turn that life gives. Look at the turn that life gives. Now it's opposite. Now it's, let's sink, let's drift, without protocol. Because this is a war. I remember that I doing Capt. Francisco Díaz: Yes, of course. Because today is totally different. Pelegrin Horacio: representatives of different states. And there, basically, I the issue. And, they didn't understand the position. Because I said, well, but if what I said to the Americans you are the should help us in this policy. Let us our own capacities. And, above all, in the issue of the radar, What was said to or was to What was said to was that the North American in the of the cartels was not to declare war to cut the operations, but to infiltrate them, to dismantle them, and above all to avoid the great concern that they had. that were alliances between drug transnational and anti-American activities. That Islamic could ally themselves with drug trafficking. So the American was, well, we're going to infiltrate the cartels, we're going have... of the cartels, people inside us, who see that in no case is there, or they us in time of an alliance between organized crime, drug trafficking and fundamentalist integrists, terrorists. So, look at how that... I in a week we had in Washington, a of senators. Se lo planteamos a varios legisladores. Creo que estaba Marco Rubio en el 2010. La oposición norteamericana no se entendía. No se entendía por qué no querían que República Dominicana se defendiera usando su instrumento. Fíjate que en ese mismo momento se habían comprado los aviones y se habían comprado los radares. Los radares... Capt. Francisco Díaz: los aviones super tucanos. Pelegrin Horacio: The super Tucano that Embraer it good to out that everything sophisticated is for North American because Embraer, which is in the US, in New York, had fundamental with Boeing. Capt. Francisco Díaz: And the whole bionic, as we it, the instrumentation is American, and the engine, is a PT6, is also American. Everything is American. Of Pelegrin Horacio: Yes, they were North American, but we saw that was opposition to the planes. Yes, they gave us a boat. We never went to the which was a project that the Navy had and could deploy due to pressures that there were. Even our plan in the country was to build the patrols in the Dominican battleships. As planes are being we have capabilities here. At that time, allied with Dami, had the capacity to build high-altitude And the plan was to build, I think, two or four high-altitude patrols to strengthen the country's The point is that, as we pushed in this direction, the pressure came from the... I remember that an a friend of ours, a senior from the State Department, told a friend that he valued me a He thought I was one of the politicians with the vision in the country, the region, he said, but that sometimes he had ideas a little tremendous, like this the law of interpretation with drop in the And he that's going to a problem. That's going create a problem. So what's to I discussed there. And the truth is, what was approach of the North Americans? For us, the priority right now, this is not a national security For them, was... For them... Capt. Francisco Díaz: Para ellos. Exacto. Pelegrin Horacio: What did tell that group of I told them, may not be a national security but we have to prevent drugs from the territory. Because when drugs enter, they the coast, they reach the territory, automatically a process that puts the inner security of the Dominican Republic It the safety of the citizens puts our institutions It generates a huge of corruption, blackmail, and violence. It has a perverse on economy. And, in as it pays in nature, there is a residual market that is growing. Right now we have 300,000 young people and care. that are trapped in the drug addiction It's hard cocaine, crack. So, fentanyl hasn't arrived here yet, but amphetamines are there and there are problems, very serious So I told them, for a big country, a country like the United States, this may not be a problem. national But for us it is, because every shipment of 1000 kilos of cocaine is like a chemical weapon that they throwing at the country. That must be assimilated into a chemical So the opposition was closed. Look, it was so closed that my father sent a letter to Senator Benende and other senators. complaining that the United States had withdrawn the surveillance from the airspace that gave information and asked us to restore it. They restored it by that letter, but only for a while. Then they withdrew What could I prove? Well, that was strength in the United States, but also was strength in South America. Why? Because at one point, when all this I an invitation from a diplomatic the ALBA group, to give me the information that there was a plan to a military base in the I told him, the information I have is that a base You remember a protest that was the IQUIERL started protesting at various points. I told him, information I have is that the North American is building some trawlers in Saona and in Miche to triangulate with Puerto Rico. the common surveillance of the and North American in the Monas And also, if the country is wanting to to Israel, a fixed 3D this problem has a lot of position. And I think it came from both North America and South America because it was going to the complete of everything that was happening. Francisco, look, the capacity of that radar that is there in San Isidro. I am telling the government, look, take out the planes, perfect, but the radars are in boxes. Enable it, establish the connection Capt. Francisco Díaz: with the See. See you. Pelegrin Horacio: of surveillance intercepting with radars. That radar had reach for the north of Venezuela, the entire north of Colombia, northeast of Colombia, a good part of Cuba, all of Haiti. It the Turkish and Caicos, reached the American and Puerto Rico, not to mention... And obviously, that was very big for the Dominican but it was important because it was going give us control. And it turns out that this not been executed. This has not been executed. Neither have the radar towers been for maritime interception, which now is more important than ever. They give us a boat and that boat sometimes intervenes in the of this operation that came here in front of Venezuela. where boats and ships were still coming in. And where did they from? Where did they They came to Vanilla, to Valle Ibe, to other areas. Where did they come from? They from there, from the South American they to Jamaica, they to Haiti, came here, to the coast. So we... Capt. Francisco Díaz: South America. Claro. Pelegrin Horacio: This is one of tasks we have pending as state. We are part of the United States' And I agree that we have to be part of it. think this is a step forward to reformulating the TIAAR. That's perception. When a change in Brazil, remember that the Inter-American of Reciprocal is also the Rio It was in Brazil. in 1947, it still there. In this case, have to reformulate it because we are talking about attacks that can come directly from a state, but they can come from other actors that can be even stronger than the states, such as transnational or like the groups that are in Jihad, which is the dimension that many people do see. Capt. Francisco Díaz: you Pelegrin Horacio: The is this knows that there a G-Hat in progress and that here, yet openly, but that is one of the biggest concerns that the United has. So we have to take advantage of the agreement to tell the Americans, well, we want to be allies and want to our own for alliance. And there many operations that can be in a joint For example, that interception Yes, but we have to our control. Because one of the things that I give testimony, one of the things that could be especially when Figueroa was in the Dominican was that on several occasions, when drugs from South America the radar from Puerto Rico turned off. And then the operations in the East were blind. And I have testimonies of people who knew that reality. Which means that was infiltration of transnational very strong in Puerto Rico. Or simply that was part of the policy of not eliminating drug trafficking but... Mantenerlo limitado, acotado, oportunamente instrumentalizarlo de acuerdo a ciertas agendas que se están manejando tanto a nivel global como a nivel continental y regional e insular.