Latest / MyRye.com Conversations with Doug French / Rye Property Taxes with Board of Assessment Review Chair Caroline Gadaleta
Transcript
- Doug: Welcome to the MyRai.com podcast, Conversations with Doug French. I am your host, Doug French, the former mayor of the city of Rye. And this podcast is about the people and the issues that impact Rye and our surrounding region. Today's topic is one of the biggest issues for homeowners: property taxes and assessments. And in conversation is Caroline Gottiletta, chair of the Rye Board of Assessment. Caroline, welcome to MyRai.com. Caroline Gadaleta: Thank you for having me. Doug: So I'd like our listeners to know there are really three things we want to accomplish in this session. The first is just an overview of property taxes and assessment. The second is the really just the process and fairness questions, and the third is really a look at at the broader context and future trends when it comes to property taxes. because I think a lot of people just we want to educate and inform the public, and Caroline is the perfect person to have. So again, it's a pleasure having you. to get started. Caroline Gadaleta: Hopefully. Doug: yeah, the first question I people would ask is the city hasn't had a citywide property tax assessment since the early seventies. That's over fifty years ago. So so why is that? Caroline Gadaleta: I think there are a number of reasons why. number one is it's it's an expensive undertaking. So it would be something that the city council would have to approve for their budget. but more importantly, I think that it would be difficult to get people on board with it because there would be probably, you know, half the population whose taxes would go up and half whose taxes would go down. And I think people fear that. They fear what change might be brought as a result of that. I know Scarsdale went through this a few years ago, spent an enormous amount of money, and ended up just in tax grievance nightmare. So it I think that that is something that really scares politicians and so in the in the current system, while it is kind of broken. it kind of works so we've just been limping along with it. Doug: Okay, okay, that's good to know. I think the city of Mount Vernon, I think they haven't been assessed since like early post civil war. I mean it's a long time. But yeah, that's to been my general understanding. Is a third go up, a third go down, and a third stay the same. And and so okay. so let's get into just the property taxes and the assessment just as an overview. are there any stats like the the overall property tax role, how many households, do you have general stats about the assessment? Caroline Gadaleta: geez. Yeah. Right. Sure, so there are about 5,059 actual parcels, of which about 4,900 are taxable lots. So some there are some tax-exempt lots in the city. and for 2026, and I had to write this down because I don't have these numbers memorized, but the tentative assessment role is about 146 million dollars, which is based on about 12. billion dollars in overall value for the city of Rye, which is amazing. Doug: And how does that how does Rye compare to other other municipalities when you look at that twelve billion? Any idea? Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah, so For the size of Rye, that's that is a big number. Rye is very small compared to a lot of other towns in Westchester, but because of the property values, our overall value is is very high for the number of taxable lots we have. and so how does that affect your taxes? it means that we pay We pay a proportionate share of the county taxes based on our overall value, so we end up paying higher county taxes than I would say the average town or village across Westchester County. So that is a portion of your taxes. Your taxes are made up of school taxes, municipal taxes, and county taxes, and so you see a higher percent. of your taxes in county versus perhaps some of our neighbors in in neighboring towns. It's all because of the incredible values that we have in Rye. Doug: Yeah. And that's really what they're looking at. They're looking countywide and saying where is the most value? They see rye. So if if the county tax is let's say four percent the increase, they have to get more out of rye, right, to to make it at the average of four percent. Yeah. Caroline Gadaleta: Yes. Mm. Mm. It's a proportionate share. It's a proportionate share of the overall values in the the county, but because our values are so high, we end up paying, you know, apples to apples, a similar house will pay more in rye because the values are higher. Yeah. Doug: Right. now we we didn't get into this earlier, but the how about nationally? I mean any idea how we stack up nationally? We have to be in the top one, two, five percent, something like that, right? Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah, I don't I don't know how we stack up nationally, but what I will say is that in Westchester County our municipal taxes are among the lowest in Rye. So you kind of have these high school taxes because we spend Prob we're probably in the top five cities or villages, towns in Westchester in terms of our how much we spend per pupil and we pay more in county taxes, but the city of Rye, because they are we're very well managed, we actually have lower municipal taxes. So it balances out a little bit. And if you look at you know, a house of comparable value in another town will have much higher taxes. Like I would say Larchmont, if I just look at like Larchmont, Pelham also, I think the taxes are very high there. Rye actually comes out better than some of those towns. I know it's hard to believe. I know it's hard to believe. Doug: That's good to know. I and I'll Yeah, yeah. Well I'll I'll take the I'll take the compliment and chalk it up to good leadership or and a history of good leadership. s so let's introduce the board. How many people are on the board? How often do you meet? What's what's the board process per se? Caroline Gadaleta: Yes, exactly. Sure, we have we have about five five people on the board, including me. And the process is basically once a year. We have a day called Grievance Day, and that is the due date for grievances, tax grievances. There's a form that you have to fill out and you have to provide evidence of whatever you are whatever you are proposing for the value for your house. it is due the third Tuesday of June, by I think eight PM because that's the end of the grievance day hearing. You do not have to appear in person. You can simply submit your grievance to the assessor, but we encourage people to come and plead their cases from four PM to eight PM on that third Tuesday. We sit in the City Hall Room in the city council room in City Hall and we wait for people to show up and it's first come, first served. Unfortunately, we don't usually get a lot of people, but when we do, we have a really engaging conversation. It's it's really wonderful to hear people talk about their homes and you know why they think their assessment is too high or too low. You know, they never say too low, but too high, and what they what they are proposing. We we you know we get to talk about different projects that they've done at their homes and is a very interesting conversation. So we encourage people to do that. Doug: So mean there's no mail in that you just show up i it that day. Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah, you can mail it in, you can bring it in to the assessor, any time before that that date, basically. Doug: Gotcha, gotcha. Caroline Gadaleta: So and then what the process is that the assessor then collects all of the applications and begins his review, which in which he comes up with an opinion of value based on what he knows about the property and then compares that to what the individual owner has provided. And then he will say, you know, I believe that your your grievance is correct and we're going to Accept that, or sometimes the assessor will come up with a different opinion of value, which could be keeping the assessment the same, or it could be lowering it slightly. It really depends on what the individual or the family submits. And these and then we meet over the course of the summer. We usually meet about three or four times to review the assessor's opinions of value and to sort of approve or deny or change. Doug: And Caroline Gadaleta: those and then at the end of the summer in September we meet to go through all of the decisions and then we certify them. Doug: So as part of the assessor's process, do they go into the home if you file a grievance, do they have to go into the home and and do a review? Or just look at public records and yeah. Caroline Gadaleta: No, no. No, it's it we look at or they the the assessor looks at comps usually, comparables and you know, sometimes it's hard to find comparables for certain homes. If it's an odd home or if it's a home of an incredibly high value and there aren't comps or you know, there there's lots of different reasons why you can't find comparables but but yeah, so they once in a while it's not easy to understand what the homeowner or the the property owner is trying to convey to us and we'll have to go walk the property or we'll potentially have to go to the property but that's very infrequent. That's very infrequent that a lot of times we'll do drive-bys or we'll, you know, just look at where the house is. Doug: And it's a zero sum game, so to speak. So if if they reduce the taxes for someone in Rye, it has to go that money is not just lost. It has to be trans yeah, has to be put somewhere else, correct? How does that process work? The assessor just determines how how we're gonna spread that out, that reduction. Caroline Gadaleta: has to come from somewhere. Yeah. Correct. I assume they do a a pro rata based on all the assessments. so yeah. Yeah, I'm not involved in that part of the process, but I assume that's what it is. Doug: Right. Okay. Yeah. And and how how active are you with the city assessor? Caroline Gadaleta: so you know, over the course of the summer The assessor will, you know, before we have our meetings, the assessor will send us kind of a summary. he will send us all of the files so that we have them electronically, or not he won't send them to us, but he provides a link to us so that we can access them from computers and and read through the entire file. That's something new that came up through COVID. We didn't usually have that option. We used to have just the paper files for many years. and And so and then we do sometimes we'll have questions about his opinion of value and we won't make a decision that week and we'll have to send back questions and so we we have an interaction over the summer. And whenever we have questions, I mean the assessor's door is always open. We're always you know and and and sometimes we we email him over the course of the summer and and ask more in-depth questions, depending on the complexity of the the case. Doug: So let's let's talk about the the process and just general fairness. So when you're evaluating a grievance, the evidence you talked about, you're looking at comparables, any you're looking at recent sales, you look at property condition or unique factors. Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah. Sure. a lot of times we will look at You know, when was the house last renovated? If it hasn't been renovated for thirty years, well that's that's sort of a a red flag when it comes to the value of the property because as you know, when you own property, you have to keep up with it. You have to, you know, if you have old bathrooms and old kitchens, that does affect property value. also just the condition of the exterior, the systems. So we try to make sure that we look at you know when the houses when the house was built, when it was renovated, and make sure that we're taking all those factors into account. Doug: And you don't have to give me the exact number, but how frequently do you disagree with the assessors? is it often, somewhat, not very? Yeah. Yeah. Caroline Gadaleta: disagree with the assessor. I would say Could be like around 10 to 15% of the time, but typically we don't just outright disagree. We'll typically send back a question until and go back and forth until we all agree with each other. So it might be an initially we might disagree or or ask questions maybe 10% of the time, but we always get to a place where we are in agreement on it. Doug: Okay. And what are the most common successful grievances? Is it because it was overvalued or the condition or any unique property factors? Caroline Gadaleta: Sure, I mean some houses are just overassessed for whatever reason. I think actually homes that were brand new around the time of the last assessment those homes can sometimes be overassessed because they were brand new back then. And so now they're fifty years old and if they haven't been renovated or rebuilt, they might have a higher assessment. and so, you know, that's that's sort of a unique situation. But I would say, you know, some of the interesting things are that Houses because we haven't done a new assessment in a long time, houses on the same block that are, you know, kind of around the same age, that are around the same size, could have very different assessments and it's just kind of haphazard, unfortunately. And that's the downside of not doing a reassessment. You have people paying sort of different levels of taxes on the same block who are living in, you know, comparable homes. But one home may have been renovated or may have had a small addition and and that caused them to start paying a little bit more in tax. Doug: That was, yeah, my next question is the outdated citywide assessment really impacting? So you do get this haphazard reassessment. And if you if you do, let's say you do a bathroom, you do get reassessed, then that opens up other kinds of value reassessments as well, correct? It's not just a bathroom, it could be, you've just noticed other improvements. Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Well, no, it's typically I mean you know, I wouldn't say that the assessor goes in and and, you know, looks at how you know how well the house is painted or, you know, if the floors are redone or anything. It's not like that. It's it they really rely on if there's construction done to the house, if there's a real improvement, not maintenance to the house. but but one thing that people kind of Doug: Right. Right. No. Gotcha. Caroline Gadaleta: don't understand or miss is that assessments of homes are are not necessarily comparable in the same neighborhood but people will sometimes come to us and say my assessment should be lower because my next door neighbor's assessment is X and mine is Y and that's not how we make these decisions. The assess your assessment if you're going to grieve it has to be based on comparables and really the the market what you're House is worth in the market. Not what your neighbor is paying. And I think a lot of people don't don't always know that. So. Doug: Gotcha. Right, right, right, right. S so so so so speaking of that, we all get these letters that say, Hey, I could save you money, your house is over assessed, is that a workable process or how would how should citizens would kinda react to those types of communications? Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah. Yeah, so I think there's nothing wrong with hiring somebody to represent you. the downside is that unfortunately my experience is that many of these companies do not represent people well. They are looking for volume and sometimes they don't submit any comps at all. and I don't think people realize that they're not being well represented. and I think they just rely on the fact that they're gonna go to small claims and get, you know, maybe an automatic ten percent off and they're willing to the these these firms are willing to kind of take that chance, but I don't think their clients know that. And so I do think that people should just do their research with these companies. companies and ask for what the application looks like. Be involved in the process if you're gonna do that. But more importantly, I think it's I think it's a great idea to do it on your own and not even not share the rewards with somebody else, especially if they're not gonna represent you well. Doug: Right, right. So as as we pivot into trends and future and I mean how is the city gonna deal with assessments when it comes to trends in Ryan, like aging in place for seniors or the teardowns in the redevelopment or the school funding that we all want for for right, you said school taxes are the highest. How do assessments tie into that, those types of trends? Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately well, first of all, the good news is there's been a lot of Redevelopment in Rye. Many of the homes that were sort of, you know, either under-assessed or assessed at low numbers have been redeveloped and now have new assessments where they are bringing in much more tax revenue. And that that definitely helps everybody, especially those who, you know, perhaps are living in a house that they bought 50 years ago and want to. Stay in their home, want to age in place. I think it's going to be hard for, you know, I look to the future and think if it's going to be hard for those people who live in those redeveloped houses that are paying $70,000, $80,000, $90,000 a year in taxes. It's going to be harder for them to age in place if they are, you know, eventually on a fixed income. I think of a lot of the people who are of retirement age now in Rye. live in more modest homes and it's more affordable but it's still it's still expensive you know but it's expensive to live in rye because everybody wants to live here. It's the greatest place. So but yeah I think you know a reassessment might bring some relief to those folks who live in older homes that maybe aren't renovated because they would potentially go down and that would be a plus for people who are trying to age in place. Yeah. Doug: Okay. All right, great. do you work at all with the corporation council? does the board in terms of litigation? Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah, so we don't work with corporation counsel regularly. The only time that really comes into play is if there is litigation or if there is if we're dealing with a case where the law is not completely black and white. That's when we will call in corporation counsel to advise us. But we don't work with her regularly. It's very very infrequent actually. Yeah. Doug: Okay. Okay. Okay. And then just looking ahead, I mean, especially with technology, are there changes or improvements you would like in the process or to incorporate you know online technology? I mean, what changes would you like to see? Caroline Gadaleta: Well, I think that there is definitely an opportunity for AI to come in and help somehow make it easier for people to put together the information they need in order to grieve themselves. we love when people come to Grievance Day because we love talking to people about their homes. I mean, well, otherwise it's kind of a boring night, frankly. but but we always have fun by the way. We laugh a lot and we have a great time. But and can't believe it because it's you know taxes. Doug: Right. Yeah. Caroline Gadaleta: Who could who would think that taxes are funny, but we somehow make a we have a good time with it. But but I would say if we could somehow make the process easier for property owners to grieve their own taxes and get more involved in the process, I think that would be a huge win because, first of all, it's so personal, especially if you own a home. It's your it's your home, it's where you are living with your family. Doug: Yeah. Caroline Gadaleta: family or your pets or you know whoever you live with and in many cases it is your most significant investment. So it's important for people to be able to be involved in the process. And right now I think it's just very cumbersome. People have to kind of know a realtor or have a realtor who will help them get access to comps and it's just it's not an easy process. I wish we could make it a little more easy for people. So and I think there's an opportunity for AI to come in and and kinda help us with that. Doug: Yeah, it sounds like That sounds exactly right. And I think if the process were easier, then you could incrementally have that city wide assessment over time as people starting yeah. all right, so before we go to our next next air, Caroline Gadaleta: Mm-hmm. Doug: I just want to remind our audience if you have a topic or person you would like to hear on the MyRaiPodcast.com podcast, just email me at French at MyRai dot com or let me know around town on a topic or person you'd like to see on this podcast. So now I'm gonna pivot to the lightning round. One word of very short answers. Some guests are better than others with this, so we'll see how how you do. the biggest misconception about the grievance process. Caroline Gadaleta: Okay. tha that you need somebody to help you. You can do it yourself. Doug: Most persuasive evidence for a successful grievance. Caroline Gadaleta: Comps. Doug: Is there a top tip for homeowners reviewing their assessment this year? Caroline Gadaleta: top tip would be be involved in the process. Don't outsource it to someone else without oversight. Doug: The biggest challenge the board faces. Caroline Gadaleta: Lack of information, when there's not information available to us or the homeowner, that's hard. Doug: the one change you'd like to see in the in the assessment system, you spoke to that already about just making it easier for the Caroline Gadaleta: Yeah. Love to make it easier for people to be more involved in the process. Doug: I can answer this question, but I'll let you answer. But when you said you're happy to see people on Grievance Day, that was not the answer I expected. But what's your favorite or most surprising part of serving on the Board of Assessment Review? Caroline Gadaleta: Gosh, I just love my board members. We have such a good time. they're all different, and they are they're all great public servants. They've served in different ways. They come from different backgrounds, and I'm the only girl on the on the board, and I'm the chair, so I'm the boss. but no, I'm kidding. I think they just they want me to be the chair because no one else wanted to do it. So it's fine. But that's the most the most surprising thing is just how much I really enjoy my Board of Assessment Review meetings. I know we're talking about taxes, but it's a lot of fun. Doug: Well you you you Well I appointed you I guess it was eight eighteen years ago? No. yeah, yeah, two two thousand nine, two thousand ten, right. So and then you you've you've become chair and just your insights alone, I know it sounds like I made a great decision. is there one resource every Rye homeowner should know about when it comes to this? Is it going to the city assessment roles or is there a resource that they should know? Caroline Gadaleta: I think it was two thousand nine. Two thousand nine. Ha ha. Yeah, they should know that the the City Assessor is you know, is a a wonderful guy, Jonathan Flynn, and he is you can go and and meet with the assessor and talk to them about your case. it's an open door. It's right there in City Hall on the lower level and they're very open to having conversations with people. It does not need to be a scary process. People don't need to be in intimidated by it. and it's important. Like I said before, this is your this is potentially your home or your your investment or or possibly your home and your greatest investment. And it's something that everybody should be knowledgeable about. Doug: Right. And and do you have a guest or topic that you think we should have on the podcast? Caroline Gadaleta: Well, I'm partial to real estate. So I'm on the facilities committee at the school district and I think that Somebody from either the superintendent's office or our facility manager and his name is escaping me right now, but somebody involved in facilities would be great to just talk about the school facilities and all of the different projects that we've been doing over the last few years because I feel like the school buildings have been absolutely transformed and we have a really great person in charge right now. He's phenomenal. So I think That's I will get you the name. Mm-hmm. Doug: I spoke with Trisha Murray a couple of episodes ago and so that that's a excellent follow up to that conversation. any final thoughts, Caroline, for Rye Residents? Caroline Gadaleta: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just I'll we'll see you on Grievance Day. Actually by the time this airs it'll be over, but we'll see you next year. And don't be afraid of the process. It's you know, it's it's an important part of your due diligence with regard to your finances and home. Doug: Okay. Okay. Well, Caroline, I wanna thank you. I really enjoyed the conversation. I think I appreciate your insights, appreciate your service to the community. And and how best to contact the board? Do they contact you directly or just through the city assessor's office? Caroline Gadaleta: Through the city assessor's office, that's the best way. Yeah, thank you for having me. Doug: Well well thank yeah, thanks again and thank you all for listening to the MyRide.com podcast, Conversations with Doug French. If you want the full transcript of this episode, it can be found on myride.com along with local news. And if you enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks, Caroline, and thank you all. Caroline Gadaleta: All right. Thank you. Take care.