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Should The NIL Era Change Your Expectations For Ohio State Recruiting? · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

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Speaker 1: Welcome to buck Eyes tomorrow morning for Sunday, March twenty second.
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Speaker 1: I'm your host tom or at the Texas game in
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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty one days the game against Michigan
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Speaker 1: in two hundred and fifty two days. If you're planning
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Speaker 1: Today's episode it's actually a bonus episode of the Skull
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Speaker 1: Session Recruiting Podcast. This is when I wanted to get
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Speaker 1: up earlier in the week and then just stuffed kept
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Speaker 1: on happenings. We kept having new stuff to talk about.
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Speaker 1: That's not a problem. And it's not a problem either
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Speaker 1: because this is something you're still going to enjoy. Going
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Speaker 1: to get to it now. Mark and Kevin answering listener questions,
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Speaker 1: including one about how nil should impact your expectation for
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Speaker 1: Ohio States recruiting. If you enjoy this one, make sure
0:47
Speaker 1: you're subscribed to the Skull Session Recruiting Podcast wherever you
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Speaker 1: get all of your other Bucky Huddle podcasts.
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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, Welcome to the Skull Session recruiting podcast. I'm
0:57
Speaker 2: Mark Giveler, joined as always by Kevin Noon. Uh. This
1:00
Speaker 2: is a listener questions episode. We're trying something a little
1:03
Speaker 2: bit different this time. As h as things get to
1:07
Speaker 2: heat up here, pretty soon visits start happening. Springball just
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Speaker 2: a few days away, and so we'll start seeing recruiting
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Speaker 2: visitors and we'll start seeing a lot of new uh,
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Speaker 2: probably some new names, probably some some interesting developments. We
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Speaker 2: thought this would be a good time for some listener questions,
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Speaker 2: kind of see what you guys are thinking wanting to
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Speaker 2: talk about going into this interesting spring window we have coming.
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Speaker 2: So Kevin, let's uh, I'm not going to really go
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Speaker 2: in order here. This is kind of an interesting, good series.
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Speaker 2: I haven't heard any of the questions yet, so I
1:41
Speaker 2: would go like order that they were sent I think
1:45
Speaker 2: because I think there's this one. This was like the
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Speaker 2: third one sent in, and I think this is a
1:48
Speaker 2: good way to start the conversation. Templar Buckeye on X
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Speaker 2: seems like an awfully slow recruiting cycle. Normally Ohio State
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Speaker 2: comes out of the of the regular season or the
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Speaker 2: off season swinging. Something did something change with recruiting approach, Kevin,
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Speaker 2: I will tackle that quickly since I've got the questions
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Speaker 2: here and then you can kind of respond. Yep. No,
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Speaker 2: I don't think anything changed in terms of philosophy. What
2:21
Speaker 2: changed is a lot of things on the coaching staff.
2:25
Speaker 2: Two new coordinators. You've got new position coaches, guys, and
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Speaker 2: new roles. You bring in Tyler Bowen. You kind of
2:31
Speaker 2: had a period there where you didn't have an offensive
2:33
Speaker 2: line coach, so I think that contributed. The other thing
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Speaker 2: is you had this late run. I mean, normally we're
2:42
Speaker 2: talking about what January one ish, the season's over, January
2:49
Speaker 2: first New Year's this goes into the twenty Well, the
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Speaker 2: championship was the twentieth I think, so yeah, you're like
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Speaker 2: three weeks later, so you're you're so die out in
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Speaker 2: on that. So it's just a very interesting circumstance this offseason,
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Speaker 2: and not being said, generally, February is pretty low key
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Speaker 2: anyway because you can't have kids on campus, and a
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Speaker 2: lot of these off season commitments happen either on visits
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Speaker 2: are coming right out of visits, so a lot of
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Speaker 2: things there. I think that contributed to a bit of
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Speaker 2: a slow start. I think things are about to heat up. Obviously,
3:21
Speaker 2: they did land Max Riley this past week, so things
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Speaker 2: are starting to get into a point on the calendar
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Speaker 2: where you will start to see more movement, some more actions.
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Speaker 2: So that that I think is a pretty easily explainable one.
3:41
Speaker 2: So you know, we'll we'll see what the next few
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Speaker 2: weeks brings as the visitors come in. But I suspect
3:47
Speaker 2: we're going to see kind of a new like an
3:51
Speaker 2: increase uptick in in activity for sure.
3:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't I don't disagree. I mean, the coaching
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Speaker 3: staff changed some of the time that maybe more mind
4:03
Speaker 3: power would be put on recruiting was put on game
4:06
Speaker 3: preparations with games going into almost the end of January,
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Speaker 3: and I think it's just a matter of the kids
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Speaker 3: that you're after that's going to determine a lot of
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Speaker 3: it too. I mean, Ohio State could fill its class
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Speaker 3: two years in advance if it wanted to. I mean,
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Speaker 3: you know, but the players that Ohio State is going
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Speaker 3: after are not necessarily looking to make quick decisions. And
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Speaker 3: we've seen sometimes what happens with players that get forced
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Speaker 3: into quick decisions and they end up making multiple decisions.
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Speaker 3: So you know, I don't. I don't think that there's
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Speaker 3: necessarily a philosophical change either. I just think it's a
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Speaker 3: change of circumstances. And you know, there's this belief that
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Speaker 3: you know, there's I think there's something to it. There's
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Speaker 3: this belief that coming off a national championship that you
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Speaker 3: should be kicking the door down. But we've said, you know,
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Speaker 3: going back into the fourteen season when they won it
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Speaker 3: all then, that it wasn't going to be the next class,
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Speaker 3: It's going to be the class after, because generally you
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Speaker 3: are a little too far down the rabbit hole with
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Speaker 3: the next class. It's the it's the following class that
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Speaker 3: is still at the beginning of its process largely that
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Speaker 3: is going to be the most influenced.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think again, the national championship bump historically comes
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Speaker 2: the two years following, So the twenty twenty seven class
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Speaker 2: would be Ohio State's national championship bump. That's historically what's happened.
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Speaker 2: This goes back in patresso. So that's another thing. I mean,
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Speaker 2: I know that wasn't really the question, but that was
5:41
Speaker 2: a good point brought up by Kevin. There is that
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Speaker 2: it does. It does usually take that like about eighteen,
5:47
Speaker 2: you know, twenty four months for that championship bump. Because
5:50
Speaker 2: the guys who are in twenty six are already fairly
5:54
Speaker 2: along in their process. They've got a lot of their
5:56
Speaker 2: relationships established, they've got a lot of their their you know,
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Speaker 2: whatever their narratives are in their head of what's a
6:02
Speaker 2: good fit for them or who they like or whatever.
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Speaker 2: A lot of that's been established already. Whereas the guys
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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty seven, who are really just some of
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Speaker 2: them aren't even really starting, but some of them just
6:11
Speaker 2: begun to start the recruiting process, are more impressionable, I
6:16
Speaker 2: guess you would say. And so I think that's gonna
6:19
Speaker 2: be something we talk about here over the next year,
6:20
Speaker 2: is when people, because this will keep coming up, people
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Speaker 2: would go, well, you know, why don't we have the
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Speaker 2: number one class right now? It's like, well, and who knows,
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Speaker 2: maybe they'll just have the number one class. You never know.
6:29
Speaker 2: With Ohio State, they always recruit high level guys. But yeah,
6:35
Speaker 2: expect that bump to really be twenty seven. That's usually
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Speaker 2: when you get the championship bump. And you know, I'll
6:41
Speaker 2: say the bad word here too. Look at Michigan, their
6:45
Speaker 2: national championship bump did not happen either right away, and
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Speaker 2: now they're recruiting better this year than they did last year.
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Speaker 2: So Michigan's getting the delayed championship bump. You know, NCAA TBD,
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Speaker 2: but you know, so, yeah, that's that's generally how it works.
7:03
Speaker 2: Here's here's a good one.
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Speaker 3: Uh.
7:05
Speaker 2: Chad Striker on X thoughts on Carson Baker. He's a
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Speaker 2: four star running back out of Georgia. Especially with a
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Speaker 2: three back class and the twenty twenty five cycle and
7:17
Speaker 2: the return of Sam Williams Dixon. What you've what you've
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Speaker 2: hit on broadly. There is really one of my bigger
7:27
Speaker 2: questions in this recruiting cycle, which is what are they
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Speaker 2: going to do it running back? In terms of bodies,
7:31
Speaker 2: I tend to think they're going to try to take
7:33
Speaker 2: two now if just throwing a name out there that
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Speaker 2: they have a chance with, If like Derek Cooper called
7:47
Speaker 2: this week, it's not going to happen. But just stay
7:50
Speaker 2: with me on the hypothetical. If Derek Cooper called this
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Speaker 2: week and said I want in, but I want to
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Speaker 2: know that I'm going to be the only running back
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Speaker 2: in this class, that probably happens. They probably just say deal,
8:09
Speaker 2: and then they've got to keep some guys warm the
8:12
Speaker 2: next nine months in case there's a flip or anything.
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Speaker 2: But I don't suspect things are going to work out
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Speaker 2: that well that perfectly. Derek Cooper is one of the
8:23
Speaker 2: truly elite players in the country and is going to
8:26
Speaker 2: line up his officials and take officials in the summer
8:28
Speaker 2: and go through the process. So that's an unlikely scenario
8:32
Speaker 2: where something like that happens. So I think the most
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Speaker 2: likely scenario is that Ohio State tries to take two
8:40
Speaker 2: running backs knowing that, look, it's going to be difficult
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Speaker 2: to keep every running back in your program over the
8:48
Speaker 2: next twenty four months. That's just the reality. Sam Williams Dixon,
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Speaker 2: as mentioned in the question, is coming back at least
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Speaker 2: for now. I assume. I assume he's going to be
9:02
Speaker 2: on the roster all season. We'll see there's a spring window.
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Speaker 2: But you also, again three coming in. We'll all three
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Speaker 2: of those guys see four or five years of Ohio State.
9:12
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe, but it seems the math would be
9:15
Speaker 2: probably in history would probably be against that. So you're
9:17
Speaker 2: gonna have to replace somebody at some point most likely,
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Speaker 2: So I think that's why I'll probably see them push
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Speaker 2: for two in twenty twenty six. My thoughts on Carson Baker.
9:31
Speaker 2: First of all, he's a tremendous player. I would take
9:34
Speaker 2: the field right now against Ohio State. I don't think
9:39
Speaker 2: Ohio State is in the driver's seat there by any means.
9:45
Speaker 2: I do think they're obviously in it. He's from Langston
9:49
Speaker 2: Hughes High School, which is where obviously former quarterback Aaron
9:53
Speaker 2: Nolan's from. Jilanie Thurman, current tight end is from. But
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Speaker 2: you know, you're going against some heavy hitters here, Georgia, Clemson,
10:01
Speaker 2: Florida State, Texas, A and M like some not only
10:05
Speaker 2: heavy hitters in terms of just ability to recruit, but
10:08
Speaker 2: some heavy nil hitters as well. South Carolina also in there.
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Speaker 2: So this is going to be a very competitive battle.
10:16
Speaker 2: And right now, I would say probably Georgia would be
10:21
Speaker 2: would be my gun to my head pick. But I
10:24
Speaker 2: also you know, I'm not like married to that at
10:27
Speaker 2: this point. I think it's I think it's fairly wide open.
10:29
Speaker 2: So given that, I think Ohio State's odds are in
10:32
Speaker 2: a situation where it's possible but not probable, if that
10:36
Speaker 2: makes sense. Kevin, your thoughts on just the running back
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Speaker 2: situation in general, and you know, if you have anything
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Speaker 2: to add there, Yeah.
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Speaker 3: He really hit a lot of the points that I
10:47
Speaker 3: was going to make. I mean, we are now in
10:51
Speaker 3: a day and age of where it's running back by committee,
10:55
Speaker 3: so there isn't necessarily as much of a push of
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Speaker 3: being like the only back in the class. But in
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Speaker 3: the hypothetical that Mark described, I mean I think Ohio
11:04
Speaker 3: State certainly would would would be all about that there.
11:08
Speaker 3: But you know, I don't think there's going to be
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Speaker 3: many years where you don't take at least two running
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Speaker 3: backs just because of you know, the people move on
11:18
Speaker 3: and everything else that's going on there. So and the
11:23
Speaker 3: thing too is you look at like a Turbo Rogers,
11:26
Speaker 3: you know, kind of what is you know, what what
11:28
Speaker 3: is his role going to be? You know, Sam Williams Dixon,
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Speaker 3: what is his role going to be? You know, somebody
11:33
Speaker 3: who could have a foot in both the running back
11:35
Speaker 3: and the receiver room in some regards. So you know,
11:39
Speaker 3: there's some gray areas there, you know. And as as
11:41
Speaker 3: for Carson had the opportunity to talk to a family
11:44
Speaker 3: member of his at the Ohio State camp when he
11:46
Speaker 3: was there and there's a lot of love for Ohio State.
11:49
Speaker 3: But Mark's right. I mean, when it comes down to
11:52
Speaker 3: it this, it's Ohio State is going against a lot
11:56
Speaker 3: of teams that have much more of a home field
11:58
Speaker 3: advantage in terms of location, and all of these teams
12:01
Speaker 3: know how to utilize nil. So I think, you know,
12:06
Speaker 3: I think the chances are long. I'm not going to
12:08
Speaker 3: say yeah, just you know, go ahead and forget the name.
12:10
Speaker 3: They've got no opportunity. But in Ohio State's no you know,
12:14
Speaker 3: no betting favorite. I'll say that.
12:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so spring will be big. They're supposed to
12:20
Speaker 2: get him back in the spring. He's got an official
12:23
Speaker 2: coming in June to Ohio State. He's got a bunch
12:27
Speaker 2: of officials scheduled so far. You know, I think Texas
12:30
Speaker 2: A and M is probably a dark horse there, but yeah,
12:34
Speaker 2: it's gonna be it's gonna be an interesting battle. The
12:37
Speaker 2: other thing we kind of keep in mind with with
12:39
Speaker 2: any of these kids, but especially like like someone like
12:41
Speaker 2: Carson Baker is running backs do have like a It's
12:44
Speaker 2: not the same as quarterback quarterbacks like the ultimate game
12:46
Speaker 2: of dominoes, but running backs have some dominoes too. Like
12:48
Speaker 2: we've seen over the years where one kid takes a
12:50
Speaker 2: spot somewhere that kind of causes a chain reaction. Let's
12:53
Speaker 2: see what happens there. Like, let's like teams like Georgia
12:56
Speaker 2: and Clemson and Texas A and M in Ohio State
12:58
Speaker 2: all have the ability to kind of cause chain reactions
13:01
Speaker 2: with their running back recruiting situations. Right now, there's some
13:04
Speaker 2: overlapping targets. There's some high level targets that could push
13:07
Speaker 2: guys elsewhere, you know, when they get their guy could
13:10
Speaker 2: push somebody elsewhere. So like, there's a lot of things
13:14
Speaker 2: still to play out here. So that's why I'm not
13:16
Speaker 2: really married to a to a firm position there. But
13:18
Speaker 2: they're gonna have their opportunities with him on campus again
13:21
Speaker 2: and and we'll see what they can do with that
13:23
Speaker 2: and see what happens with some of their other targets
13:25
Speaker 2: as well, you know, moving forward here the next six
13:28
Speaker 2: to eight weeks. Okay, So now I'm gonna save this
13:35
Speaker 2: other one for last. So we're gonnat to our We
13:37
Speaker 2: got one more here. I want to get to them.
13:38
Speaker 2: We have a one I think will be a great
13:41
Speaker 2: place to wrap up, And I'm gonna let Kevin have
13:44
Speaker 2: first cracked this one, So I've been kind of like
13:46
Speaker 2: stealing all the talking points from him before he's able
13:48
Speaker 2: to kind of respond. So I'm gonna let I'm gonna
13:51
Speaker 2: let Kevin go on this one. This is a this
13:54
Speaker 2: is kind of a multi part one from from Steven
13:57
Speaker 2: on on X in Today's Recruiting World with nil and
14:02
Speaker 2: the transfer portal. Should should us fans change our expectations
14:07
Speaker 2: when it comes to recruiting? Should we value coaches that
14:10
Speaker 2: develop better than they recruit, like Justin Fry? And is
14:14
Speaker 2: it fair to blame a coach if something comes down
14:17
Speaker 2: to money? So let's let's piece this out. Becau's basically
14:20
Speaker 2: three three very good questions and one should fans change
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Speaker 2: expectations when it comes to recruiting? Kevin?
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Speaker 3: I think that there is maybe a little bit I mean,
14:30
Speaker 3: expectations are expectations, and you're talking fans, so you know,
14:35
Speaker 3: we've seen all sorts of varied opinions from fans on everything.
14:39
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm not here to tell people to
14:42
Speaker 3: necessarily change how they view things, but I do think
14:46
Speaker 3: there has to be a little bit of a reset.
14:48
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, if you want to remain sane in
14:51
Speaker 3: following recruiting, because it is much more likely now that
14:58
Speaker 3: a kid is going to pick a school completely out
15:01
Speaker 3: of left field and it's just going to shock you.
15:03
Speaker 3: And it's going to be because they're putting their whole
15:05
Speaker 3: nil pile on this kid, hoping that he can become
15:09
Speaker 3: kind of the pied piper and lead them to to success.
15:13
Speaker 3: So this isn't a case of just I'm never going
15:17
Speaker 3: to say the recruiting ever has been like one thousand
15:19
Speaker 3: percent merit based. There have always been payments out there,
15:23
Speaker 3: bag McDonald's bag full of money, et cetera, et cetera,
15:26
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. But I think that when it
15:30
Speaker 3: was not above board, it you know it was, it
15:34
Speaker 3: was prevalent, but not quite as prevalent. So you're probably
15:37
Speaker 3: not going to land every kid that you would have
15:41
Speaker 3: fifteen years ago. I mean, if we if we went
15:44
Speaker 3: back to fifteen year ago rules, I think some classes
15:47
Speaker 3: would look very different. So, you know, I think it's
15:50
Speaker 3: something fans need to be aware of. I don't think
15:53
Speaker 3: it needs to be like the first pillar or the
15:55
Speaker 3: second pillar of the house, but I think that you
15:57
Speaker 3: need to be aware of it in terms of what
15:59
Speaker 3: you're expectings are because and I don't want to kind
16:03
Speaker 3: of get into part three yet, I'll kind of try
16:05
Speaker 3: and keep this out.
16:06
Speaker 2: We'll do this one at a time.
16:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that, you know, I think that they're
16:11
Speaker 3: just going to be times that while the school may be,
16:15
Speaker 3: while a school may be a better fit, the financial
16:18
Speaker 3: situation necessitates going for the media the immediate payout, And
16:23
Speaker 3: you know, that's unfortunate in a lot of regards, but
16:26
Speaker 3: it's reality.
16:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's two ways to approach this question.
16:36
Speaker 2: I think in general, fans should not change their expectation
16:41
Speaker 2: of Ohio State's results in the In the broader sense
16:45
Speaker 2: of fans should continue to demand, expect whatever Ohio State
16:52
Speaker 2: to recruit at a top five level. So I guess
16:55
Speaker 2: that's like the macro way of hacking this question. Fans
17:01
Speaker 2: should expect whatever the rules are as they change, as
17:04
Speaker 2: they don't change whatever. Fans should continue to expect Ohio
17:08
Speaker 2: State to be one of the best in the country
17:09
Speaker 2: at acquiring talent. That should be the expectation. They still
17:13
Speaker 2: have a tremendous economical advantage over most schools in the country,
17:19
Speaker 2: and fans should continue to expect Ohio SAT to bring
17:21
Speaker 2: in tremendous talent. So on the macro level, no, on
17:24
Speaker 2: the micro level, yes, things are going to go differently
17:31
Speaker 2: in how they get to get to from point A
17:33
Speaker 2: to point B. You know, from the beginning a point
17:35
Speaker 2: A being the beginning of the cycle, point B being
17:37
Speaker 2: who they sign point A to point b. The process
17:40
Speaker 2: has changed. There's more volatility. Recruiting's always been volatile to
17:47
Speaker 2: an extent, it's very very volatile. Now Teams lay in
17:52
Speaker 2: the weeds for months and then November December pop out
17:56
Speaker 2: with just wild It's more widespread now because it is
18:04
Speaker 2: above board and mostly there's still some people are still
18:09
Speaker 2: kind of working in some gray areas, but like it's
18:12
Speaker 2: mostly above board now, so you can kind of throw
18:15
Speaker 2: these dollar figures out. It's like, hey, this is what
18:17
Speaker 2: you can get, and you know, is it always or
18:21
Speaker 2: promises delivered upon you? There'd be some kids, I think
18:25
Speaker 2: who would argue that they aren't, but yeah, it's become
18:29
Speaker 2: more volatile. The other thing I think fans need to
18:33
Speaker 2: understand is the days of like a lot of plan
18:38
Speaker 2: b's and Plans c's are going to kind of be
18:41
Speaker 2: out the window. You know, you used to go into
18:46
Speaker 2: a class and you'd say we need this many players
18:49
Speaker 2: at this position, and it would come out, you know,
18:51
Speaker 2: be like, you know, twenty five total, twenty four total,
18:55
Speaker 2: and you'd be down at you know, it'd be like
18:59
Speaker 2: November and you're you're at like seventeen eighteen with maybe
19:03
Speaker 2: two big guys left on the board, and so you've
19:05
Speaker 2: got like these three or four spots where it's like, well,
19:08
Speaker 2: we're gonna have to kind of go down and get
19:10
Speaker 2: the you know, steal the Ohio kid from Illinois or
19:14
Speaker 2: from Minnesota or Indiana, and we just kind of have
19:16
Speaker 2: to work on some plan b's, you know, and get
19:22
Speaker 2: to our number. Well, that's not really gonna happen much anymore.
19:27
Speaker 2: There's always gonna be some late bloomers that teams look
19:30
Speaker 2: at and they kind of say, well, this kid's you know,
19:32
Speaker 2: this kid senior film is incredible, We've got to move
19:35
Speaker 2: on him. So, like a Jamir Gibbs a couple of
19:37
Speaker 2: years ago, became like a national battle. He of course
19:42
Speaker 2: he did end up sticking with Georgia Tech and then
19:44
Speaker 2: ultimately transferring to Alabama. But like Jamir Gibbs, those are
19:47
Speaker 2: going to happen always because they just there's kids that
19:52
Speaker 2: don't you know, get on the radar for whatever reason early,
19:55
Speaker 2: but like knowingly you're reaching to fill a quota. Uh
20:01
Speaker 2: is not going to happen anymore. Teams are gonna in
20:04
Speaker 2: Ohio State is a great example. This Ohio State would
20:06
Speaker 2: rather bank those three to use on the transfer portal
20:10
Speaker 2: and get a proven commodity later in the transfer portal.
20:14
Speaker 2: Then they would, you know, take a kid they're not
20:17
Speaker 2: fully sold on. So I think those are some things
20:20
Speaker 2: that fans can kind of change how they view things.
20:24
Speaker 2: But again, in general, I think fans should continue to
20:27
Speaker 2: expect the High State to be among the very best
20:29
Speaker 2: programs of bringing in talent. I don't think you need
20:31
Speaker 2: to change that. Should we, you know, to the development part.
20:36
Speaker 2: Should we value coaches that develop better than they recruit?
20:38
Speaker 2: Like justin Fry, that's Kevin.
20:46
Speaker 3: You know you're going to kick it to me. When
20:49
Speaker 3: I saw you not come right out with an answer,
20:51
Speaker 3: I'm like, he's coming to me with this one. I
20:56
Speaker 3: think you need to kind of I think development is
20:58
Speaker 3: the lost piece for a lot of places, and you
21:03
Speaker 3: can I mean, you could bring in you know, a
21:05
Speaker 3: four point seven star average star rating and if you
21:08
Speaker 3: don't make them any better, you know you're you're going
21:12
Speaker 3: to be unemployed. I mean at some point, I mean
21:14
Speaker 3: pretty quickly, because being a you know, a subjective four
21:19
Speaker 3: or five star when you're seventeen years old and then
21:22
Speaker 3: still being kind of the same thing three years later,
21:27
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's not good. Now you could sit
21:30
Speaker 3: there and be a master developer. And if you can't
21:34
Speaker 3: bring in guys that have high, you know, high ceilings
21:38
Speaker 3: to be able to to build them up, I don't
21:42
Speaker 3: know necessarily what you're getting there. I mean, you know
21:45
Speaker 3: that that type of guy maybe you know, the like
21:47
Speaker 3: the mid major basketball guy that sits there and always
21:50
Speaker 3: seems to have a team full of seniors that are
21:53
Speaker 3: like forty eight percent from three point and you know,
21:55
Speaker 3: you don't want to face in the tournament. So when
21:58
Speaker 3: you're at a high high high major program like Ohio
22:01
Speaker 3: State in football, I don't want to talk too much
22:03
Speaker 3: about basketball at the moment. You have to you have
22:07
Speaker 3: to find the sweet spot between them both. I mean,
22:11
Speaker 3: you know, I think that Justin Fry did get a
22:13
Speaker 3: bad rap in a lot of ways, but I think
22:14
Speaker 3: some of it was was warranted. I mean, in terms
22:17
Speaker 3: of the recruiting, really wasn't there. But I've said it
22:22
Speaker 3: in other shows and I will continue to say it
22:24
Speaker 3: in shows. They're not. I don't know how all the
22:29
Speaker 3: five star offensive lineman fine homes because they're just not
22:32
Speaker 3: a lot of great recruiting offensive line coaches. They're just not.
22:36
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't remember the last one at Ohio State.
22:39
Speaker 3: I mean, you know you're gonna have to go prior
22:41
Speaker 3: to Bowman, to Jim Bowman. At that point, Bowman couldn't recruit,
22:45
Speaker 3: you know, we we you know, we saw Warner couldn't recruit,
22:48
Speaker 3: stud couldn't recruit you know, Fry. There was some challenges
22:53
Speaker 3: in his recruiting or whatever. So you know, I I
22:57
Speaker 3: know that the question that was put in Steve, and
22:59
Speaker 3: I think you said the name was was not kind
23:01
Speaker 3: of an either or I I think that I think
23:06
Speaker 3: that the recruiting is is is very important. But you've
23:10
Speaker 3: got to be recruiting guys that have kind of like
23:12
Speaker 3: some high ceilings if you're going to be the developer guy.
23:15
Speaker 3: And I'll say that about you know, I'll say that
23:17
Speaker 3: certainly about Warner. I'll say it to a lesser extent
23:19
Speaker 3: about Study, and I'll certainly say it about Fry. They
23:22
Speaker 3: could they could develop, and that was kind of the
23:25
Speaker 3: big thing. But the problem was is they were taking
23:27
Speaker 3: too many swings and misses out there, and they were
23:29
Speaker 3: bringing a lot of guys in that that just weren't
23:32
Speaker 3: going to work out for one reason or another.
23:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think certainly. I think it varies by position.
23:41
Speaker 2: I think offensive line is defensive line. I think those
23:44
Speaker 2: are places where, you know, technical coaching probably carries more
23:51
Speaker 2: weight than maybe like a running backs coach or something
23:53
Speaker 2: like that, But you still have to you still have
23:56
Speaker 2: to bring in the talent. You know, we we can
24:00
Speaker 2: play this game over. You know, we can go around
24:02
Speaker 2: in circles about it. How well, if you bring in
24:04
Speaker 2: the talent but you can't develop, or if you don't
24:06
Speaker 2: bring in the talent but you can develop, you know
24:07
Speaker 2: you're gonna kind of arrive at the same spot. But
24:10
Speaker 2: I still think recruiting has to take precedent. When you're
24:12
Speaker 2: a position coach, it you know, it's not to uh,
24:22
Speaker 2: not to not to go not to throw shots here,
24:25
Speaker 2: but like you're you're much more likely, regardless of your
24:29
Speaker 2: ability to develop, you're much more likely to build a
24:33
Speaker 2: good offensive line around to David Sanders and you are
24:35
Speaker 2: a Tommy Brown like like it just like even even
24:41
Speaker 2: if you're not like the greatest developer of all time,
24:44
Speaker 2: you have to have something to work with, and so
24:48
Speaker 2: I think that remains important. Here's the other thing I
24:50
Speaker 2: would argue if for like maybe recruiting over development is uh. Guy,
24:55
Speaker 2: the player movement now is like I don't know that
25:00
Speaker 2: players have the patience to be developed for three or
25:04
Speaker 2: four years the way they used to. And maybe they
25:07
Speaker 2: used to have to because the way the rules were,
25:09
Speaker 2: but like the idea now that you can sit here
25:12
Speaker 2: and get these guys and then just spend three years
25:15
Speaker 2: developing them and then by their fourth and fifth years,
25:17
Speaker 2: you gotta like you've got a dude, Like that's gonna
25:21
Speaker 2: be harder to do now with nil, my gosh, Like
25:27
Speaker 2: it's like Zen Mahalsky got a significant NIL deal from Indiana.
25:33
Speaker 2: I know it's people are gonna like he got a
25:35
Speaker 2: significant like like mid to high six figure NIL deal
25:41
Speaker 2: with with Indiana. So that's that's like your classic developmental
25:46
Speaker 2: guy of like kind of raw in high school, Like
25:48
Speaker 2: can we develop him for three or four years? Like
25:51
Speaker 2: maybe you can, or maybe he goes and you know
25:54
Speaker 2: the year that he's got to compete for a starting
25:56
Speaker 2: spot and provide depth for you. He goes to another
26:00
Speaker 2: Big ten program for and you know, like Notre Dame
26:04
Speaker 2: had a backup offensive lineman, go to Tennessee for like
26:06
Speaker 2: a million dollars. Now he's the kids started for Notre
26:09
Speaker 2: Dame this year because of injuries, but he was going
26:11
Speaker 2: to be their backup again next year. And he goes
26:13
Speaker 2: to Tennessee and gets almost a million dollars in an
26:16
Speaker 2: I own money. So so how you how you actually
26:23
Speaker 2: are able to develop guys has changed because you have
26:26
Speaker 2: to develop them on the fly. Like you don't get
26:28
Speaker 2: to stash guys for three or four years anymore. They transfer.
26:31
Speaker 2: So I would still go recruiting. That being said, I
26:36
Speaker 2: do think Justin Fry did a very good job developing players,
26:40
Speaker 2: and you cannot undervalue that either. I mean, it is important.
26:46
Speaker 2: So we will see though Tyler Bowen a very good
26:48
Speaker 2: recruiting reputation. So we will see in real time here
26:52
Speaker 2: I guess the next four or five years, hopefully, how
26:56
Speaker 2: how things have changed at Ohio stayed on the offensive line,
26:58
Speaker 2: if they've changed, and kind of what the results are,
27:01
Speaker 2: and then we can have this debate even with even
27:04
Speaker 2: more data points, I guess on it. So yeah, So
27:07
Speaker 2: that was another good question, and then we'll get to
27:09
Speaker 2: the final part of that, which was is it fair
27:12
Speaker 2: to blame a coach if something comes down to money?
27:14
Speaker 2: And my short answer on that is going to be no,
27:19
Speaker 2: it's not fair to especially the position and the assistant coaches,
27:23
Speaker 2: like even Ryan Day. I would say no. But at
27:26
Speaker 2: least Ryan Days like involved a little bit like he's
27:29
Speaker 2: going to have some ultimate say in some nil decisions
27:33
Speaker 2: based on what nil dollars are available. He's still going
27:36
Speaker 2: to have like some ultimate say in that. But but no,
27:41
Speaker 2: I mean there are position coaches who I think would
27:45
Speaker 2: love to have more nil dollars at their disposal that
27:49
Speaker 2: either don't have them because they don't exist, or they
27:52
Speaker 2: don't have them because it's decided by someone higher up
27:55
Speaker 2: on the chain that you know, it needs to go
27:57
Speaker 2: in this direction or that direction instead. And so I
28:01
Speaker 2: think it's very very difficult as a assistant position coach
28:08
Speaker 2: to win a recruiting battle if you're not competitive. I'm
28:14
Speaker 2: not saying you have to be the highest bidder, but
28:17
Speaker 2: you know, if someone else is offering two or three x,
28:20
Speaker 2: what what your program is willing to give your guy.
28:24
Speaker 2: I don't know how Like it's very difficult for me
28:27
Speaker 2: to put Blay on the assistant there.
28:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't get blood from a stone. And if that,
28:33
Speaker 3: you know, if that stone is that your budget is
28:36
Speaker 3: sixteen million dollars or whatever, you can't you know, you
28:39
Speaker 3: can't go out and give somebody six. And you know,
28:44
Speaker 3: there's so much misinformation about what players are being offered
28:47
Speaker 3: and everything else. I mean, certainly certainly have heard, well,
28:52
Speaker 3: this kid's worth five million dollars or whatever. Well that's fine,
28:56
Speaker 3: I mean, I hear you. But you know what, once
29:00
Speaker 3: this house settlement comes through in the twenty million dollar
29:03
Speaker 3: number becomes something, and you know you'll figure it out,
29:08
Speaker 3: you know, at that point. But you know, as for
29:12
Speaker 3: Ohio State is kind of in a little bit of
29:14
Speaker 3: a different position with some of the other blue bloods
29:17
Speaker 3: of college football because Ohio State can land kids, I
29:23
Speaker 3: think easier not being the highest bid because, especially like
29:29
Speaker 3: a wide receiver, you show them what Marv is making,
29:32
Speaker 3: you show them what Garrett and lov I mean. God
29:36
Speaker 3: bless a Lobbe if he doesn't get murdered in New
29:39
Speaker 3: Orleans with all the hits he's been taking and everything else.
29:42
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you can sit there and say, Okay,
29:47
Speaker 3: you know, you might we might be two hundred and
29:50
Speaker 3: fifty thousand dollars less than what your best offer is
29:54
Speaker 3: per year, but you're going to get to your second
29:57
Speaker 3: NFL contract and you're gonna make real dollars. You're gonna
29:59
Speaker 3: be learning under the best and Brian Hartline, et cetera,
30:01
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. So there are going to be
30:04
Speaker 3: times where that's there. And I'm not saying that that
30:07
Speaker 3: players that don't do that, that take the highest bid,
30:11
Speaker 3: that do take the highest bid are bad kids are
30:15
Speaker 3: making you know, stupid decisions or whatever. Everybody's got to
30:18
Speaker 3: do what the situation is. And it's not even a
30:21
Speaker 3: case of that. You have to be in a you know,
30:23
Speaker 3: real unfortunate circumstances to do that. I mean, there's certainly
30:28
Speaker 3: you know, Quen yours grew up in South Lake, Texas,
30:32
Speaker 3: and I've been to South Lake, Texas and it's very
30:34
Speaker 3: nice and nobody's missing any meals in South Lake, Texas,
30:37
Speaker 3: and you know, there certainly was a bit of an
30:39
Speaker 3: nil play there to graduate early and enrolled in Ohio
30:43
Speaker 3: State early. So you know, let's let's not just sit
30:46
Speaker 3: there and say that it's just you know, the kids
30:48
Speaker 3: that are coming out of impover's situations have to make
30:51
Speaker 3: you know, really wonky in il decisions. But you know,
30:56
Speaker 3: I guess back to the original point, No, you shouldn't
30:59
Speaker 3: blame the coach. I mean I think that I think
31:03
Speaker 3: that there just needs to you know, be full transparency,
31:05
Speaker 3: and there isn't always going to be full transparency of
31:08
Speaker 3: what's going on. And I think that you know, these gms,
31:12
Speaker 3: you know, I still call it the Pantoni position, but
31:14
Speaker 3: these GM positions have to sit there and be part
31:18
Speaker 3: claravoyant and and and figure out what each kid's motivation
31:22
Speaker 3: is and try and figure it out. But you're never
31:24
Speaker 3: going to be able to get all the pieces of
31:26
Speaker 3: the puzzle to fit because it's just it's just not
31:28
Speaker 3: going to work out.
31:31
Speaker 2: And Ohio States approach to NIL I think has been
31:33
Speaker 2: the right one. They're not stingy with the high school kids,
31:41
Speaker 2: but they're not going to get themselves into these games
31:43
Speaker 2: of like constantly having to up their you know, up
31:47
Speaker 2: their expectations on NIL and just well the school you
31:52
Speaker 2: know is going to do this. Okay, we'll do that,
31:53
Speaker 2: and then this school is going to do this, this
31:55
Speaker 2: and this. Oh okay, we'll do all that too. Like they're
31:57
Speaker 2: not going to get in these things, these back and
31:59
Speaker 2: forth too much. They're going to come out with competitive
32:04
Speaker 2: ail offers. But a big part of their pitch is
32:09
Speaker 2: we're also going to reward our players, and so let's
32:14
Speaker 2: get you in on a competitive whatever deal. And once
32:18
Speaker 2: you're here and you're established and you know you want
32:21
Speaker 2: to be here and we know that you can play,
32:24
Speaker 2: we're going to take care of you. And that's what
32:26
Speaker 2: we saw. You know, everyone made a big deal about
32:28
Speaker 2: that twenty million dollar roster, so much of that was
32:32
Speaker 2: in player and taking care of their own players. And
32:36
Speaker 2: so I think as this continues to kind of go on,
32:40
Speaker 2: and you have these players that were taken care of,
32:43
Speaker 2: these guys like Jack Sawyer and JT and now like
32:46
Speaker 2: a Caleb Downs or a Jeremiah Smith, when you bring
32:48
Speaker 2: recruits on campus and they meet with these guys and
32:51
Speaker 2: they you have someone like Jeremiah Smith sitting down with
32:54
Speaker 2: you as a young wide receiver and telling you, yeah,
32:57
Speaker 2: like I got a good nil deal coming out of
32:59
Speaker 2: high school, but they really took care of me when
33:01
Speaker 2: I got here, and they'll do the same for you.
33:03
Speaker 2: I think that's going to carry some weight. Now. Some
33:07
Speaker 2: people are just going to go for whatever the higher
33:09
Speaker 2: number is that, you know, regardless of anything else, give
33:12
Speaker 2: me the higher number. We see people do that in
33:14
Speaker 2: their job, in their professional careers. They jump job to
33:17
Speaker 2: job based on just nothing but money. That's their prerogative.
33:20
Speaker 2: That's fine. No one's telling them they can't do that.
33:22
Speaker 2: But just people are wired differently. Some people that that's
33:25
Speaker 2: what really matters. Other people value different things. So like
33:29
Speaker 2: that's going to be a thing that Ahis has to
33:31
Speaker 2: battle with. But again, I think that their approach has
33:35
Speaker 2: been pretty good. And again their player retention, and again
33:39
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see it again this year.
33:41
Speaker 2: They're going to talk about, oh, you know, they took
33:43
Speaker 2: care of Kenyata Jackson and guys like we're not even
33:46
Speaker 2: thinking about right now, as like megastars who are going
33:48
Speaker 2: to be like stars of their team in the fall,
33:51
Speaker 2: Like they're taking care of those guys. And so I
33:54
Speaker 2: think that's going to be something that does eventually trickle
33:56
Speaker 2: down through the recruiting process too. Players, you know, from
34:01
Speaker 2: the players to the recruits that say, yeah, I got here,
34:03
Speaker 2: and you know, maybe I could have got a little
34:05
Speaker 2: bit more somewhere else, but I took this one and
34:08
Speaker 2: now they're taking care of me because I'm I want
34:10
Speaker 2: to be here and I'm performing and you know that.
34:13
Speaker 2: So I think there's a lot it's it's a complicated deal.
34:19
Speaker 2: I mean, it just is. But I think Ohio State's
34:21
Speaker 2: handled it pretty well. You Like, they haven't gone like
34:25
Speaker 2: a full A and M or full of Miami where
34:28
Speaker 2: it becomes a nightmare. You know, I think they've avoided
34:32
Speaker 2: kind of the the whole like nil, like locker room
34:38
Speaker 2: cancer that it can be. And so I think they've
34:43
Speaker 2: done a pretty good job of managing things.
34:45
Speaker 3: And one more thing too, And we haven't seen n
34:48
Speaker 3: I L chaos in terms of recruiting. Now, somebody will
34:52
Speaker 3: be quick to point out, well, you know they weren't
34:54
Speaker 3: able to land X and Y and Z. That that's fine,
34:57
Speaker 3: But I'm talking about like USC and USC is lining
35:01
Speaker 3: up to do it again. Where USC had an all
35:04
Speaker 3: world defensive line class and then sign like none of them.
35:08
Speaker 3: You know, USC has just picked up a couple more
35:10
Speaker 3: defensive linemen this year in the current crop. And you know,
35:14
Speaker 3: I'm sure I'm sure, USC is very aggressive in the
35:17
Speaker 3: nil space. USC needs to be very aggressive in the
35:20
Speaker 3: defensive space because their defense. I think they have the
35:24
Speaker 3: right coach in there now in terms of their d
35:27
Speaker 3: C that they brought over from UCLA recently, but they don't,
35:31
Speaker 3: you know, they don't have the Jimmies and the Joe's.
35:33
Speaker 3: But I still think we're going to see a case
35:35
Speaker 3: of where if you bring in a kid, if you
35:38
Speaker 3: land a kid, especially here in March, based on nil dollars,
35:42
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff can change between now and December
35:45
Speaker 3: when it's time to sign, and you know, I've had
35:48
Speaker 3: people and if this is the last question, I apologize
35:52
Speaker 3: for scooping. I don't know any of the questions I
35:55
Speaker 3: swear is, you know, should we be concerned that Ohio
35:58
Speaker 3: State is like twelfth in the recruiting rankings. No, none
36:01
Speaker 3: of that should matter right now at this point because
36:03
Speaker 3: it is so early and you just have to kind
36:05
Speaker 3: of figure everything out and it's all well and good
36:08
Speaker 3: that you know, Indiana may have the number four recruiting
36:11
Speaker 3: class in the nation at this point. I don't know
36:13
Speaker 3: if Indiana does, uh, but it doesn't. It doesn't mean anything.
36:17
Speaker 3: Eight months away, seven months away, from from signing the class.
36:21
Speaker 2: Well, that is a good point though, on the like,
36:23
Speaker 2: if you've got a commitment right now that's based on nil,
36:26
Speaker 2: it's not it's worth it's a worthless commitment. If whatever
36:29
Speaker 2: commitments you have today, if they're based on nil, they
36:32
Speaker 2: are worthless. This goes for a higher state, This goes
36:34
Speaker 2: for any program it's got commitments today that are based
36:37
Speaker 2: primarily on nil, those commitments are worthless. And here's why.
36:42
Speaker 2: Nobody that's competing with you for that player has given
36:46
Speaker 2: their best offer yet, and they won't until like November,
36:53
Speaker 2: so they're gonna lay in the weeds and then they're
36:56
Speaker 2: gonna snipe you in November with some ungodly offer for
36:59
Speaker 2: your five star defensive back or your five star defensive end,
37:02
Speaker 2: and you're like, what the heck? And that's while this
37:06
Speaker 2: is gonna go. So you want your early commitments to
37:09
Speaker 2: be preferably like home stay kids, preferably kids who just
37:13
Speaker 2: love your program, like I have kind of dreamed of being
37:16
Speaker 2: part of your program. Because the ones who are like, oh,
37:19
Speaker 2: I think this will be the best at ilfit for me,
37:21
Speaker 2: they don't know what's about to happen in six months,
37:23
Speaker 2: which is other schools are going to come out of
37:24
Speaker 2: the weed and be like, actually we'll give you We'll
37:26
Speaker 2: double that, or we'll we'll give you this and this,
37:28
Speaker 2: this and this, like we'll give your family this, you
37:31
Speaker 2: know whatever. So there's a lot to there's a lot
37:36
Speaker 2: of hurdles. Yet, if you've got a kid committed right
37:38
Speaker 2: now based largely on nil promises, put it that way.
37:44
Speaker 2: Last thing, I thought this was a good way to
37:47
Speaker 2: end Stephen h on X in or out with top
37:51
Speaker 2: Ohio prospects. Unfortunately this was submitted before the Max Riley,
37:56
Speaker 2: the Riley guthrie geb.
38:00
Speaker 3: Got three out.
38:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's still several Ohio prospects with offers right now,
38:06
Speaker 2: so we'll go down the list. I do have a caveat.
38:10
Speaker 2: I want to give it the end of this, so
38:12
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and order things in a way
38:16
Speaker 2: that I can do that where it flows. Okay, but yeah,
38:23
Speaker 2: let's uh, let's get it. Let's start with Sam Greer,
38:26
Speaker 2: four star offensive tackle, Akronhoban, Kevin in or out when
38:31
Speaker 2: the dust settles an emphatic in, I agree, I think
38:36
Speaker 2: he's in. I think he'll be or he'll be in
38:40
Speaker 2: Michigan in the mix Florida State, randomly pushing very hard
38:47
Speaker 2: some other Midwest schools to consider. But I just think
38:50
Speaker 2: they've done a good job there kind of pushing through
38:55
Speaker 2: this coaching change with with Sam. He's he's kind of
39:00
Speaker 2: build a pre relation with Tyler Bowen. That's Bowen's really
39:03
Speaker 2: worked that one hard. And they'll you know, they get
39:07
Speaker 2: him on campus multiple times here in the next couple
39:10
Speaker 2: of months. So I agree in on Sam Greer and
39:16
Speaker 2: then we'll go down here. This will do his teammate. Actually, well,
39:20
Speaker 2: let's go with rock Albert rock Hill five star corner.
39:24
Speaker 2: Also Akron Hooven, Kevin in Er out.
39:28
Speaker 3: Feel strong than saying in as well. You know, I
39:32
Speaker 3: think there was a hot moment where people thought maybe
39:35
Speaker 3: he could be an earlier deciding guy. I mean, we're
39:38
Speaker 3: still really early. If we look at the calendar, you know,
39:41
Speaker 3: he's got visits set up and everything. That's all well
39:43
Speaker 3: and good, But that's just one that just screams to
39:48
Speaker 3: be in Ohio State. Hit. So I'm going to say in.
39:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, caused quite a bit of anxiety the other day
39:55
Speaker 2: with a tweet of official visits that did not include
39:58
Speaker 2: Ohio State. He will he will be Ohio State, so
40:01
Speaker 2: everyone can kind of at least pump the brakes a
40:03
Speaker 2: little bit on that type of panic. I say in
40:07
Speaker 2: as well, I've kind of been pretty steadfast in that
40:10
Speaker 2: I know Alabama's pushing, I know Oregon's pushing like I
40:13
Speaker 2: get it, and I know they're gonna throw around like
40:16
Speaker 2: there's gona be some some silly there's gonna be some
40:18
Speaker 2: some big numbers probably thrown around there. But I had
40:22
Speaker 2: Ohio State knows how important rock is to the class.
40:28
Speaker 2: I think Ohio State has prioritized him as they would
40:31
Speaker 2: a five star kid from Texas or Florida or Georgia,
40:34
Speaker 2: just as much as you know, they would, you know,
40:35
Speaker 2: just as much as they would there. So I don't
40:37
Speaker 2: think there's been any complacency there, and I think Ohio State.
40:40
Speaker 2: I think he will give some anxiety to Ohio State fans,
40:43
Speaker 2: who live and die with every visit these guys, take
40:45
Speaker 2: every quote these guys give. But I do think one
40:49
Speaker 2: of the dust settles they will have Rock Hill. Now.
40:52
Speaker 2: It's interesting because what's left are a bunch of linebackers,
41:00
Speaker 2: and so we'll do these in a vacuum. But I
41:03
Speaker 2: would like to kind of caveat something at the end here,
41:07
Speaker 2: but we'll get to that in a minute. CJ. Sna
41:13
Speaker 2: ol in TANGI three star linebacker Lewis Center, Ohio right
41:18
Speaker 2: down the road, Kevin in or out.
41:20
Speaker 3: I'm going to say in there, I know that there was.
41:23
Speaker 3: You know, some people probably are a little concerned when
41:25
Speaker 3: Kyd and Gebhart committed to Clemson, what's that going to mean?
41:28
Speaker 3: Or you know, are they going to go to the
41:31
Speaker 3: same school. I don't necessarily think so, you know, I
41:36
Speaker 3: think I'm basing a lot of my CJ. Sna decision
41:38
Speaker 3: based on what I've heard Mark say and some other
41:41
Speaker 3: people say in terms of that they feel that that
41:44
Speaker 3: one's going to happen. But you know, you're not seeing
41:46
Speaker 3: You're not seeing a lot of in you know, in town,
41:50
Speaker 3: Franklin County, Delaware County, Fairfield County. You know guys that
41:53
Speaker 3: are that close that Ohio State is actually really pursuing.
41:56
Speaker 2: They don't.
41:57
Speaker 3: They don't get away that often. So I'm gonna say.
42:01
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say in as well, he's got an official
42:03
Speaker 2: visit set for that very like the first weekend in June.
42:06
Speaker 2: End of May. It's like May thirtieth, I think is
42:08
Speaker 2: the Friday I think Wisconsin is probably the biggest contender there.
42:18
Speaker 2: He does an official with them in the middle of June.
42:23
Speaker 2: Obviously being recruited by Mike Tressell and Luke Fickle, so
42:25
Speaker 2: that's obviously interesting. But I think he's in. He has
42:33
Speaker 2: visited Ohio State like it feels like twenty times since
42:37
Speaker 2: like the middle of the season. I think it's realistic.
42:39
Speaker 2: I think it is like six or seven. So he's
42:42
Speaker 2: he's very, very very active in being being coming down
42:46
Speaker 2: to campus and getting to know the coaches. Okay, Cleveland
42:52
Speaker 2: Glenville linebacker Sincere Johnson one of my favorite prospects in
42:56
Speaker 2: this class in Ohio. Kevin in or out.
43:01
Speaker 3: You're giving me all these kids, I'm basically saying into
43:03
Speaker 3: all of them, and I'm going to say in here.
43:06
Speaker 3: But you know, I guess at some point I have
43:08
Speaker 3: to kind of know what the linebacker number is going
43:11
Speaker 3: to be for Ohio State. I mean, obviously, you know
43:15
Speaker 3: you're getting you know, this is Sunny's last year. I mean,
43:19
Speaker 3: got Rvell, this is year three for Rvel. I mean,
43:22
Speaker 3: you know, it's you know, I think that the Glenville
43:25
Speaker 3: pipeline is back open, and Ohio State is certainly going
43:29
Speaker 3: to benefit since here Johnson is a guy that maybe
43:31
Speaker 3: we're not talking about enough really you know, really like
43:34
Speaker 3: his game, and I like Ohio State's chances there.
43:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't think the Glenville pipeline is
43:40
Speaker 2: going to fail this time at all. I think Ohios
43:43
Speaker 2: is going to get Sincere Johnson, obviously, Alabama, USC, Oklahoma
43:46
Speaker 2: all pushing. He's become a national prospect. He's going to
43:50
Speaker 2: do the official visits thing this summer. The new Glenville
43:55
Speaker 2: way is to still do all the official visits, but
43:57
Speaker 2: to kind of kind of wrap it up, you know,
44:00
Speaker 2: lie August instead of January, just because of the way
44:03
Speaker 2: the calendar has changed, but still to go through with
44:06
Speaker 2: the visits again. Good relationship there with James Lonidis, great
44:11
Speaker 2: relationship there with Rvela Reese, who's going to be a star,
44:14
Speaker 2: breakout star this year, I think for Ohio State. So
44:16
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of things working in Ohio
44:18
Speaker 2: State's favor there and have them getting since here Johnson,
44:24
Speaker 2: now Storm Miller linebacker, maybe Edge, maybe Matt Patricia coming in.
44:32
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, does does he move him
44:35
Speaker 2: to more of like a walkout linebacker, stand up edge
44:38
Speaker 2: type of position, but Storm Miller, Strongsville, Kevin in or out.
44:46
Speaker 3: I told myself, I'm going to say out whoever. I mean,
44:48
Speaker 3: especially since you were talking linebackers, I was going to
44:50
Speaker 3: say out regardless. You could have sat there and said
44:52
Speaker 3: r J Day and I was just going to say out.
44:58
Speaker 2: Less.
45:00
Speaker 3: They'll find a way to have him count against a
45:05
Speaker 3: different position number. I know his brother got away went
45:12
Speaker 3: to Clemson, but he's been on my end list for months.
45:17
Speaker 3: I'm just not going to sit there and suddenly change
45:19
Speaker 3: it because of the ordering of it. But in I
45:23
Speaker 3: guess I mean, and don't don't don't clip this short
45:27
Speaker 3: anybody it'd be like, well, he's just not that excited
45:29
Speaker 3: about the kid.
45:30
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm excited about exercise. I don't know
45:33
Speaker 2: that we can get to avoid that. I don't know.
45:35
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's gid has clipped. So
45:40
Speaker 2: here's what this is. Why I said I wanted to
45:42
Speaker 2: do this in a certain order and have a kind
45:43
Speaker 2: of a caveat here at the end, in a vacuum.
45:48
Speaker 2: I have Storm Miller in this class, Wisconsin and one.
45:55
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like Clemson is is pushing there, doesn't
46:00
Speaker 2: feel like Clemson is as in this one as you
46:02
Speaker 2: might have expected when this process started. For whatever reason,
46:08
Speaker 2: you know, Stanford is on there, and and look people
46:11
Speaker 2: laugh at like I've been doing this for years with people.
46:14
Speaker 2: They'll allow off Stanford, Oh, Stanford. When Stanford's on the list,
46:17
Speaker 2: you have to take them seriously, like you have to
46:19
Speaker 2: take them almost as seriously as you would take like
46:22
Speaker 2: like it like in when Saban was at Alabama, you'd
46:24
Speaker 2: have to always take Alabama seriously. Right now, you probably
46:26
Speaker 2: always have to take like Georgia seriously. If Stanford is
46:29
Speaker 2: on a kid's list, like a top three, a top five,
46:32
Speaker 2: you have got to take them seriously because there is
46:35
Speaker 2: a real reason they are on that list. First of all,
46:37
Speaker 2: there's very few kids we even qualified to get into Stanford.
46:40
Speaker 2: So you know, he's qualified to get into Stanford. If
46:42
Speaker 2: they they've offered him, they'll bring him in on an
46:44
Speaker 2: official But to actually like like they had to really
46:48
Speaker 2: recruit on Stanford for Harry Miller, they had to really
46:50
Speaker 2: you know, they lost Solomon Thomas once upon a time
46:52
Speaker 2: to Stanford, like they've lost kids to Stanford over the years.
46:56
Speaker 2: Do not laugh at Stanford. That's just a different it's
46:59
Speaker 2: it's not the same reason is like you don't laugh
47:01
Speaker 2: at Alabama or Georgia. It's obviously it's an academic space reason,
47:04
Speaker 2: but you do not cross Stanford off a kids list
47:09
Speaker 2: as a contender if they're they're in his top three
47:11
Speaker 2: or five. So that I think is is something to watch.
47:16
Speaker 2: But I just like, despite Blake going to Clemson like
47:21
Speaker 2: his older brother, like that is an Ohio State family.
47:26
Speaker 2: Storm grew up an Ohio State fan. But here's my caveat.
47:33
Speaker 2: I know, I just picked them to get all these
47:34
Speaker 2: all three of these linebackers. That's how things in a
47:38
Speaker 2: vacuum sit today with none of them committed, with official
47:43
Speaker 2: visits coming up. I don't I'm not highly confident they're
47:49
Speaker 2: going to actually land all three when the dust settles.
47:52
Speaker 2: I just feel like there's something that could happen, whether
47:58
Speaker 2: it's to committed and Ohio State maybe not wanting to
48:02
Speaker 2: go all in on the third one because maybe there's
48:04
Speaker 2: an out of state guy there's chasing still and they
48:06
Speaker 2: hesitate a little bit with the third guy and he
48:09
Speaker 2: gets kind of put off by that and go somewhere else.
48:11
Speaker 2: Whether it's he looks at those two and says I
48:14
Speaker 2: I can go somewhere else and get a less competitive room.
48:19
Speaker 2: Whether it's as simple as like a Stanford putting together
48:22
Speaker 2: something like really impressive for Storm Miller, or you know,
48:26
Speaker 2: I don't know. If I knew what it was, I
48:28
Speaker 2: would just say it. I don't know. It just it
48:30
Speaker 2: feels like I would not parlay the three to Ohio State,
48:35
Speaker 2: even though I think they're the favorite for all three.
48:38
Speaker 2: So I just wanted to kind of get that out there.
48:41
Speaker 2: I know that probably feels like I'm playing both sides
48:42
Speaker 2: of this, but like it just when I look at
48:45
Speaker 2: them as individuals, it just feels like they're all leaning
48:47
Speaker 2: toward Ohio State. But when I kind of use my
48:52
Speaker 2: past experience of this and kind of how these things
48:55
Speaker 2: generally work out, I just I feel like the third
48:57
Speaker 2: one to pull the trigger might might end up not
49:01
Speaker 2: pulling it for Ohio State. But Kevin, am I Am
49:04
Speaker 2: I too paranoid here? Am I looking too much into this?
49:08
Speaker 2: Or is that?
49:08
Speaker 3: No? I think that that's that's fair? And you know,
49:12
Speaker 3: the reality was was last year and this is different
49:15
Speaker 3: situation a lot of a lot of the instances. But
49:19
Speaker 3: when we were talking about defensive back recruiting, when Ohio
49:22
Speaker 3: State was in on everybody and their uncle, and what's
49:27
Speaker 3: going to happen to you know, Trey McNutt and you know,
49:29
Speaker 3: Dorian Brew and everybody else. At the end of the cycle,
49:32
Speaker 3: and you know, things sorted themselves out and Ohio State
49:36
Speaker 3: didn't land all of them. But I don't think any
49:38
Speaker 3: of us were saying that Ohio State really was going
49:41
Speaker 3: to land all of them. But there was probably a
49:43
Speaker 3: moment in time where you sat there and you looked
49:46
Speaker 3: at each player's recruitment individually, it's like, well, Ohio State leads. Now,
49:50
Speaker 3: that was at one, you know, and that wasn't necessarily
49:53
Speaker 3: always at the same moment in time. So you go
49:56
Speaker 3: through the three linebackers against storm Miller maybe being an a.
50:00
Speaker 3: It just kind of depends on how they view them
50:02
Speaker 3: and what kind of defense they that decide to run.
50:04
Speaker 2: Here in the post opportunity is to have that Storm
50:08
Speaker 2: Miller kind of be a different role.
50:10
Speaker 3: So, you know, I think I think it's I think
50:13
Speaker 3: it's it's it's fair to say that individually they all
50:17
Speaker 3: probably favor Ohio State. Now, now, could we see a
50:20
Speaker 3: run happen on it, could we see post spring game,
50:25
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe even pre spring game, you know, CJ
50:28
Speaker 3: pop on it and to get into his spot. And
50:30
Speaker 3: then it kind of becomes a situation of where, you know,
50:33
Speaker 3: just the sincere kind of hold on a little bit
50:36
Speaker 3: longer because of just that Glennville way of doing things.
50:39
Speaker 3: Do you know there's does Storm Miller jump earlier? I mean,
50:42
Speaker 3: it just really kind of seems like it's up in
50:45
Speaker 3: the air. But you know, I think that the way
50:47
Speaker 3: you described it in the caveats fare, I.
50:50
Speaker 2: Mean, I'll just go back to the to this classed
50:52
Speaker 2: offensive line. Now, in fairness, I did not see the
50:59
Speaker 2: will Conroy thing just totally just falling apart from them
51:02
Speaker 2: the way it did. That was surprising to me, and that,
51:07
Speaker 2: you know, that's still a little surprising me that that
51:09
Speaker 2: that's the way that things went there. But this was
51:15
Speaker 2: a deal, like you go back, you know whatever, it
51:17
Speaker 2: would have been six eight months ago or something, and
51:20
Speaker 2: I was asked, like, okay, do they get they had
51:22
Speaker 2: four offensive linemen offers out in Ohio? Said do they
51:25
Speaker 2: get all four? I said, well, in a vacuum again,
51:28
Speaker 2: like is there someone of these four that I can
51:30
Speaker 2: say they definitely don't lead for no, but I would
51:33
Speaker 2: take I would I would bet against them getting all
51:36
Speaker 2: of them, Like eventually something's gonna happen where one of
51:42
Speaker 2: them decides. Now, I don't think so like whether it's
51:45
Speaker 2: getting all three or whether it's just another guy like
51:47
Speaker 2: liking other school, whatever it might be. It was, I'll
51:51
Speaker 2: say that was kind of what I thought about the
51:52
Speaker 2: offensive line, And I thought more of like an Adam
51:55
Speaker 2: Guthrie situation than like a Will Conroy situation where it's
51:58
Speaker 2: completely like fizzled on. But you know that that's kind
52:03
Speaker 2: of played out that way at this point, and and
52:06
Speaker 2: again I don't you know, look, maybe they get all there,
52:08
Speaker 2: maybe they maybe they sell if they sell Storm Miller
52:12
Speaker 2: on like, hey, like this is what Matt Patricia wants
52:15
Speaker 2: to do here with some of these like linebacker Dan Hybrid's,
52:18
Speaker 2: you know, and you kind of work him into a
52:21
Speaker 2: different thing where very similarly in my opinion, to like
52:25
Speaker 2: what Jacob Weatherspoon is for the secondary right now, where
52:28
Speaker 2: you can kind of tell your safeties, well, he's not
52:30
Speaker 2: really a safety, he's kind of a slot, and you
52:32
Speaker 2: can kind of tell your outside corners he's not really
52:34
Speaker 2: a corner either. He's Jordan Hancock, you know, And so
52:38
Speaker 2: you can kind of do this. If you can do
52:40
Speaker 2: that with Stormill, I think that I think that helps tremendously.
52:43
Speaker 2: But again we also don't know what out of state
52:44
Speaker 2: options might pop up. They've got some big names visiting
52:47
Speaker 2: in the spring, and so again they're not gonna be
52:49
Speaker 2: able to take like five linebackers. You just you can't
52:52
Speaker 2: do that. You're only playing two in almost almost every down.
52:56
Speaker 2: So there's something's gonna have to give here, and we'll
53:00
Speaker 2: see what it is. I like I said, I if
53:02
Speaker 2: I knew exactly what it was, I would just say it.
53:04
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what's gonna be. I just like
53:07
Speaker 2: instinctually feel like something's gonna have to give here with
53:10
Speaker 2: the linebacker recruiting for this class to fill out the
53:13
Speaker 2: way the way it will, So we'll see. I think
53:17
Speaker 2: that was a good way to end it, was to
53:18
Speaker 2: do some predictions. We'll try and do these more often.
53:22
Speaker 2: I think people like these because they can kind of
53:24
Speaker 2: pick what we talk about versus us just being like, Hey,
53:27
Speaker 2: what do we think people want to talk about.
53:30
Speaker 3: So check us out on the huddle board, or yes,
53:33
Speaker 3: yes we're already it's a lot.
53:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, if they're not already, if you're not already, go
53:39
Speaker 2: go to Buckeyell dot com and help us out there. Register.
53:42
Speaker 2: We got a great community there and a lot to
53:44
Speaker 2: talk about with springball ramping up here in a few days.
53:46
Speaker 2: So if you're not a member there, I get signed
53:49
Speaker 2: up now. If you're not subscribed to the YouTube channel,
53:51
Speaker 2: please do that. Please, that's free. So just hit the
53:55
Speaker 2: subscribe button and the like button the thumbs up. That
53:57
Speaker 2: helps us, helps o other High State fans find our videos. Kevin,
54:02
Speaker 2: any final thoughts.
54:04
Speaker 3: No, this is you know, this is the time to
54:06
Speaker 3: start getting locked in on on recruiting because kids are
54:11
Speaker 3: going to start coming on campus, you know, pretty much
54:13
Speaker 3: as soon as springball starts, and that's Monday. So we're
54:18
Speaker 3: gonna you know, a couple of big visit days are
54:20
Speaker 3: coming up here as soon as like a week from now,
54:22
Speaker 3: and uh, you know we'll have we'll have it all covered.
54:25
Speaker 3: We will be also at spring practice, uh whenever they
54:28
Speaker 3: whenever they let the media will be there. So this
54:31
Speaker 3: is a great time to h to get involved. You know,
54:34
Speaker 3: a season of of of of change in terms of
54:37
Speaker 3: starters and everything else and coaches, but one thing that's
54:42
Speaker 3: not changing are the expectations.
54:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, gonna be really an exciting off season with so
54:47
Speaker 2: many open competitions and so many new stars getting ready
54:51
Speaker 2: to emerge on this roster. So uh. And then of course,
54:55
Speaker 2: you know, you defend the national title, and you start
54:57
Speaker 2: that right off the bat with Texas and a game
55:00
Speaker 2: that could very well be one versus two, So we
55:03
Speaker 2: will see what that what that entails. But you know,
55:06
Speaker 2: Arch Manning coming to the to the shoe is a
55:08
Speaker 2: pretty cool way to start the season. So it's a
55:09
Speaker 2: great time to be over there at Buckeye Huddle dot com.
55:12
Speaker 2: Thanks for those of you who already are. But let's
55:14
Speaker 2: log off now. We will uh, we'll be back here
55:17
Speaker 2: this coming week. So this is we'll recording this Friday
55:20
Speaker 2: to run Saturday morning. So we'll be back here next
55:23
Speaker 2: week at some point with a new episode. But appreciate
55:26
Speaker 2: everyone watching and listening, and we'll talk to you soon.