Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Secret Service Agent Tim McCarthy - The Man Who Took a Bullet for President Reagan

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Secret Service Agent Tim McCarthy - The Man Who Took a Bullet for President Reagan · Heroes Behind the Badge

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I'm your host, Dennis Collins, a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge
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and a law enforcement father, please say hello, as usual to my colleagues
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William Erfurth, that are known to his friends and some of his enemies as Billy.
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Uh, bill, by the way, as a retired Miami-Dade police Lieutenant.
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26 years of decorated service.
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He is also a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge.
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And now Craig Floyd, our fearless leader.
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Craig is the founder, president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.
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Craig, thanks again for our fancy uniforms.
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We're getting, I'm, I'm loving these uniforms, man.
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Thanks for, uh, outfitting us here.
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We just have to get together on the uniform of the day.
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I guess?!
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We look really sharp, if I may say so, Dennis.
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Um, but, and, and you know, our brand, we have Heroes Behind the Badge podcast, and
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And just a reminder to everybody, if you go to our website, uh, citizens Behind
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We never forget today's hero.
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Dedicated a half century, 50 years of his life serving and protecting
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as a member of law enforcement.
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Okay?
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22 years as a Secret Service special agent, eight of those years
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on the prestigious presidential protective detail, and almost three
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decades as a police chief of the Orland Illinois Police Department.
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So like many of our heroes, their decades of distinguished and decorated
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public service is highlighted by sometimes one event on one day.
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In this gentleman's case, it was March 30th, 1981.
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President Reagan was three months into his term, he was speaking
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at the Washington Hilton Hotel.
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He finished his speech and was heading back to his car in 1.7 seconds.
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Six gunshots rang out from the small crowd outside the hotel shots
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aimed directly at President Reagan.
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Today's hero I. Secret Service agent Tim McCarthy was assigned
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to the presidential production detail on the day shift that day.
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The story goes though that it was his day off, but he lost a coin flip to one of
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his colleagues and showed up for work.
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Little did he know he would find himself in the middle of an assassination attempt.
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He'd be called upon to take the ultimate action.
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To stop an assassin's bullet from reaching their intended target for some
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of the older members of our audience, you likely will never forget those
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shocking videos we all saw at the time of that incident played over and
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over again for our younger audience.
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You're about to hear the real story from the real hero.
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Behind the badge, a very warm welcome to retired Secret Service agent
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and retired chief of the Orland Police Department, Tim McCarthy.
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Tim.
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Thanks for joining us.
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Thanks for your decades of service.
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Uh, we are delighted to have you as our guest on today's podcast,
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but j uh, Craig and Bill will have tons of questions for you.
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But you know me, I gotta ask at least one question here.
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Is it true, I've heard this story for years and I I tried to confirm it again
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before we, uh, uh, had this interview.
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Is it true that that was your day off, or was that fiction?
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Uh.
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Paul, it was not my day off.
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However, on that particular day, we had one extra agent.
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Uh, the, the president only travels in that inner perimeter with a
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certain number of agents, Uhhuh.
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We had an extra agent that day.
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So we were, two of us were both of the same rank about a sergeant, so to speak,
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and the agent in charge said, well, you're all, you've both been briefed, you're both
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ready to go, but we've got one too many.
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One would stay back.
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Now it was raining out that day.
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The car we ride in, the follow up car leaked at that time.
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It was an old nice, an old convertible type of limousine.
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So we flipped a coin and I lost, I went, as a result, I got wet among
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other things and shot at the same time.
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Now the the ancients who.
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Won the coin toss that stayed, uh, stayed back.
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An outstanding agent.
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He went on to win like $4 million in the Pennsylvania State lottery.
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So one of these people that had a horseshoe up, uh, well hit geez, a
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lucky streak, let me put it that way.
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For sure.
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Well, we are delighted to have you and delighted to honor you
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as a true hero behind the badge.
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Thank you.
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I'll, I will share, uh, the stage now with Mr. Craig Floyd.
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Tim, um, you and I go back a ways.
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We've been together on a number of events.
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You helped us build the National Law Enforcement Museum and in 2017, uh,
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we did a, an event together called Witness to History, and we talked
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about the assassination attempt on President Reagan and your role in that.
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I. Um, and, and there was a story that came out that night, uh, I'll never
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forget it, by the host Tom Sherwood.
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He's a local news guy, and he, he told us a story about, uh, right before
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the assassination attempt, president Reagan was speaking to a group of labor
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leaders and, uh, he ended his speech.
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By asking them to please join him so that we can make America great again.
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And I, I love that story.
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Uh, usually we attribute that, uh, quote to President Trump, but
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it was in fact President Reagan that first coined that saying.
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And uh, I'd say President Trump did a pretty good job of, uh, carrying
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that on, uh, in his victory.
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Uh, his double victory, I guess we could call it in 16 and 24.
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March 30th, 1981.
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He's coming out of that speech to the Labor Union, and,
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uh, everything seemed fine.
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Uh, I, I guess in hindsight we're all a little surprised that the public was
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allowed so close to President Reagan, just a matter of a few feet where, uh,
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John Hinkley and, and others had gathered that day as President Reagan was leaving.
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Um, pick it up where, um, you know, you're now on duty.
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Obviously you've covered that part of the story.
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Um, and how in the world did we allow the public that close, and how was he able to
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get those shots off in, in rapid fashion and how you reacted the way you did.
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Uh, take us through those moments if you would.
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Well, let me, uh, start about, uh, Craig, you brought up a great point that
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has often been overlooked of why the.
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General public was, was allowed to be so close.
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And that was a top of conversation, uh, for a long time in the Secret Service.
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Why we were not using metal detectors, you know, they were pretty common at the time,
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uh, being used at airports, uh, major events, but we were not using them and
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I don't have any firsthand information.
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We asked about it, but we were told.
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Um, the story goes that during the past administrations, including
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the Reagan administration, that they didn't want it to look like.
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A siege atmosphere around the president.
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Well, every day cards and letters come into the White House.
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People are being interviewed on the street who have made
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threats against the President.
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So frankly, it's a mystery to me this day why we didn't have them, other
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than the stories anecdotally that, uh, they didn't want it to appear to be a
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siege atmosphere around the president.
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Now, the day after this happened, and I give the credit to Mrs. Reagan.
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That I'm told, uh, let it be known that metal detectors will
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be used from here on in to screen.
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Everyone that comes in contact with the president.
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And from that time on, after he got outta the hospital, anyone who came
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in close proximity to the president went through a metal detector.
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Now I'll tell you, it's no coincidence since March 30th, 1981, that the
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historic assassin being the lone gunman.
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Uh, John Hinckley, lone gunman that we haven't had an assassination
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attempt by the lone gunman.
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So metal detectors used properly in the uniform division of the
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Secret Service, handles them.
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Very professional, very good at what they do.
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They're not foolproof, but they're, they can be pretty close.
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I don't believe it's, it's not a coincidence that we haven't had
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an assassination attempt since the introduction of the metal detectors.
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So.
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That's as much as I really know about why or why not.
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We were not using metal detectors at the time.
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If, and they can be used anywhere.
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They operate on batteries, generators, so you can be in the middle of a farm
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field and still use metal detectors.
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You know, there's, uh, they're very versatile.
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There's so many new models now that, uh, are, have AI capability.
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Are above and beyond just a simple metal detector.
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Uh, but going back to that day, Craig, it was.
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Uh, the president was speaking to the building trade unions, uh,
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many of whom are from Chicago.
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Friends of mine in particular, the Illinois delegation was right up
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front of the president since he was from originally from Illinois.
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Um, if you read his diary, which he kept, he didn't think he did too well
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at that speech, but it, it really went over well by all accounts.
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Now, naturally, he was a Republican and the, and the labor unions are.
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Uh, appeared to be more democratic in nature.
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But, you know, I was there and it was, uh, got a rousing applause and, you know, uh,
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you know, his economic agenda turned out to be good for the country, both for labor
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and management from what I, I recall.
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But anyway, he gave a speech.
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We were going back outside now, remember the president, he'd only
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been in office for a couple of months.
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He was on a very, very tight schedule, so there was no information when we did
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our briefings that he'd work a rope line.
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It was right back to the limo, back to the White House.
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So we got outside, uh, we were heading towards the armored car.
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Uh, part of my responsibility in the position I was in was to make
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sure that that car door was open.
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It was also the responsibility of the site advance agent.
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It was open as it was supposed to be, and we were approaching the car, and
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you have to have your head on a bit of a swivel because even though I.
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The briefing was going straight to the car, no rope lines.
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You never know if that's gonna happen or not, and everyone is naturally
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yelling, Mr. President, Mr. President.
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So I looked at the president to try to get an idea what he was doing, looked
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back at the crowd and just in be as we were within feet of the, the, the
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protection of the armored car, as well as the armored door of the car, which
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opened backwards on that older model car.
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Uh, John Hinkley pushed himself forward and fired his.
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Six rounds in about one and a half, uh, one and one and a half seconds.
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And that was out of a revolver, uh, not out of a, a pistol.
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And he hit four people.
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And, uh, you know, um, Tom Delahanty was hit in the back of the neck.
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Tim Brady was hit literally between the eyes on his forehead.
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Later killed him.
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But however, John Hinkley was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
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So even though it became a homicide, he could not never be tried for it.
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Um, I was hit in the right chest and the president was hit under the left armpit
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by the fifth round that ricocheted off the right rear quarter panel of the car.
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Jerry Power and Ray Shaddock were pushing the president into the armored car.
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He had his hands out in front of him to cushion the blow.
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And that ricochet round hit him under the left armpit.
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And it was many years later when the a MA, the American Medical
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Association actually released all of the medical records to show how close
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the president actually came to death.
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Uh, you know, it, uh, during his, uh, time in the emergency room and
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so forth, you know, there were some, uh, moments when he was in very,
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very critical, uh, uh, condition.
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So.
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I was taken to George Washington Hospital, along with Jim Brady and the president,
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Tom Delahanty went to Washington Metro and the, uh, metropolitan Police,
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that's where they take injured police.
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Uh, and it's one of those hospitals that sure as heck knows how to deal with bullet
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wounds, uh, as does George Washington.
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But that was their protocol to go there.
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So we were all treated, and of course, Jim Brady was the most seriously injured.
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Tom Delehanty retired as a result of, of the injury to his neck.
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Uh, I was back on duty in about, uh, uh, three months, uh, back
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onto the Presidential protective Division, and of course, Jim Brady
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was disabled for the rest of his life.
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And it was only a few years ago that his injuries led to his death.
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So Tim, a, a, a quick question about that.
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So you and the president were both taken to the same hospital and
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their stories about the fact that you were relatively close to each
15:06
other during, during recovery.
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How quickly did he recover versus you recover and when
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you were both finally released?
15:16
Well, I was out of the hospital, um, bill in about 11 days.
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Okay.
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Uh, and then recovered at home.
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And naturally I had to get back to a level of physical fitness to pass the physical
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agility test, you know, the running and jumping and all that type of thing.
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And, uh, my surgery required, you know, cutting, uh, a scar, you
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know, from right down your sternum, down to your, below your waist.
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So they cut through all of the, uh, you know, stomach
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muscles and things like that.
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So it took a while.
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For me to recover.
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Uh, the president, uh, was stayed in the hospital a little bit longer, uh,
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but he, uh, began, it was less than a month later, as I recall that he
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was, you know, his, he was starting to, uh, uh, have a full schedule.
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So the recovery was quick.
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The GW doctors were outstanding.
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Um, and I always kid around, people ask me, so who got the best doctors there?
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Uh, and we all got outstanding, uh, medical treatment as, as evidenced
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by the fact I was out in 11 days.
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Now, Jim Brady, they did everything they, they could for Jim, but the, you
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know, taken around to the forehead is, is catastrophic under any circumstances.
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And of course, as we know, he was disabled the rest of his life.
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The, um, uh, I remember at the witness to history event, a, a very,
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uh, interesting, uh, story came out.
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You told, uh, you were getting ready to be discharged from the hospital,
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and President Reagan summoned you down to, uh, his hospital room, uh, for
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a meeting with you and your family.
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I, I wish you'd, uh, recollect that for our viewers and listeners.
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Well, Craig was on my last day in the hospital and I was packing
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up, uh, getting ready to go, and I had two children at that time.
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We had a third one born later.
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Uh, and my wife and I and the two kids I. I got a, a call, the president
17:11
would like to see you up in his room.
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And that sounded a bit like an order to me.
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And, uh, we marched on up there and met with the president.
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Mrs. Reagan was there.
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His, the windows on his, um, hospital room now had armored glass, so he really, uh,
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before the time of water, white glass.
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So it was distorted a bit and he was.
17:32
Complaining a little bit about, you know, it's my first spring in, uh, Washington DC
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and the cherry blossoms, you know, uh, DC is known for that and I'm gonna miss that.
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So we had a nice conversation.
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Two of my kids, they, the president was still hooked up to a lot of things that I
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was hooked up to, you know, flashing red lights and green lights and so forth that
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would attract the attention of young kids.
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And it was attracting the attention of my kids who wanna
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go play with those machines.
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They thought they were toys rather than medical instruments.
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So we were having a great conversation.
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The president was talking about how we were gonna, uh, get together
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for dinner, you know, and a lot of, I. Just wonderful conversation.
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Him, you know, you know, saying, you know, thanks for doing your job that day, along
18:15
with others that did their job well too.
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But my wife, no, was getting very nervous, noticing the kids, you know,
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paying so much attention to these instruments connected to the president,
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and I would see she was getting nervous.
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So he, uh, all of a sudden she, you know, well, we better get going.
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And it was, uh, we had great conversation with the president, so we're just heading
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out the, the door when the president stopped and said, Hey, Tim, wait a minute.
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Listen, it was Reagan, McCarthy, Brady, Dhani.
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What the hell did this guy have against the Irish?
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And, and I think the moral of that story was, you know, in critical incident
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trauma, there's a theory that people that go through a critical incident
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can, uh, a third of the people can never go back to their job again.
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And, and perform the way they once did another third, third,
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it only mildly affects them.
19:09
And another third, it doesn't affect them at all.
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And the president was a great example that he was able to find
19:15
humor, uh, and some good in what was a terrible, terrible tragedy.
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So that was a great example for me.
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And one of the reasons, and you know, my father was a sergeant in the Chicago
19:28
Police Department, so, and all of our neighborhood where police are
19:31
fire in the south side of Chicago.
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So this type of thing was, was not unheard of.
19:37
Uh, growing up though, I never thought it would happen to me, and, but he was
19:41
a great example of how to, you know, get back on your feet and get back on the job.
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And, uh, you know, I was only about 31 years old at the time and I wasn't
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ready to, I guarantee I wasn't ready to retire by any stretch of the imagination.
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And, uh, so, uh, went through recovery rehab and was back on
20:00
a job about three months later.
20:02
After that.
20:03
I mean, and oftentimes in different agencies, after you're involved in a
20:06
shooting situation or wounded or critical incident, you get a nice cushy position
20:13
after that, what happened for you?
20:16
No, there was no cushy position.
20:18
Uh, went back on the detail, I think on midnights by the way.
20:22
And, uh, right back into it, it was a little bit uncomfortable
20:26
getting back in the saddle again, so to speak, just to, uh, you know.
20:31
I, I was, I wasn't, you know, people were giving me a lot of credit and so
20:35
forth, but I wasn't Superman before that time, and I certainly wasn't afterwards.
20:40
So, uh, I did what I did based upon training, uh, not anything else.
20:46
So, but I was happy to get back, back to work.
20:48
Uh, you know, I, I. You know, I loved what I was doing.
20:53
It was, uh, so interesting, so challenging, uh, along the way too
20:59
that, uh, you know, talking to my parents and everyone, there was no,
21:03
there was no doubt that as soon as I was ready, I was going back to work.
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And quite frankly, my wife, I think, was happy to get me back
21:09
to work and get out of the house.
21:11
So, yeah.
21:12
So did you ever have that dinner of us that are married?
21:14
Yes.
21:15
Did, did you ever end up having that dinner with Reagan?
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And, and how, uh, how did the Reagans and everyone.
21:21
Treat you thereafter?
21:22
Well, yes we did.
21:24
And it was on St. Patrick's Day.
21:26
Now I'm still a, an agent on the, just an agent.
21:32
Uh, probably the, as a grade 13, you were the rank of, of a sergeant basically.
21:37
So my wife and I were in both invited to a St. Patrick's
21:40
Day dinner at the White House.
21:42
I sat at a table with the president, tip O'Neill, other high level politicians.
21:49
I believe John Wayne or and other Hollywood actors, my wife was at a table
21:54
with Mrs. Reagan, m O'Hara and others.
21:58
Um.
21:59
It was great.
22:00
You know, they came around.
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Would you like a beverage, sir? Well, I would've loved to have had a beer,
22:04
but naturally I wasn't going there.
22:06
Uh, and it was a wonderful, wonderful time and, uh, uh, but it was, you know, here
22:12
are all my colleagues who are, you know, working and I'm there at this dinner.
22:17
So, but it, it was wonderful.
22:19
Uh, had many other opportunities to interact with the president
22:22
and Mrs. Reagan and on my.
22:24
Second, uh, you know, I did four years a year with President Carter.
22:29
Three with President Reagan was transferred back to Chicago and then
22:32
transferred back again for three more years with President Reagan
22:36
and a year with President Bush.
22:38
And, uh, on my second tour, one of my supervisory responsibilities was, uh.
22:44
Mrs. Reagan's detail, uh, to, uh, along with several, uh, training and
22:49
the transportation section, and of course primarily with the president.
22:52
Um, and we had many.
22:55
Conversations with Mrs. Reagan up on the second floor of the residence,
23:00
uh, to talk about different things, largely operational,
23:03
uh, but, you know, occasionally personal things would come up too.
23:06
So, um, we became pretty close.
23:09
Um, I, of course was at, uh, president Reagan's funeral and I was
23:12
at Mrs. Reagan's funeral as well.
23:15
So it was a interesting, uh, eight years under presidential protective division.
23:20
Um, it, it's, it's very tough.
23:23
Because the amount of travel, the time away, shift work, things of that nature.
23:27
Uh, it's a tough assignment, but, uh, it's one that, um, I,
23:32
I'll give you a short story.
23:34
Um, from time to time we were, we were allowed to give tours of the
23:41
West Wing when the president was, uh.
23:43
Away from typically a camp David or away.
23:47
So you do have days off somewhere and uh, you don't always, uh, every
23:51
day you're not with the president.
23:53
So you get requests from time to time from your fellow agents, Hey, I
23:55
got some people coming in from town.
23:58
Could you meet 'em down there and just take 'em on a quick tour of
24:00
the West Wing that allows 'em to see the Oval Office in the cabinet room.
24:04
So, uh, uh, I did it for one of my fellow agents and it was a couple
24:08
from, uh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
24:11
Nice gentleman with his family, three or four people, they went through
24:14
the metal detectors and everything and so forth and name checked.
24:18
And, uh, took him on a quick tour of the West Wing.
24:22
And, uh, we came out and, uh, he turned to me and he said, you know,
24:26
Tim, he said, uh, uh, I've got many millions of dollars I own.
24:32
Numerous companies and, and he was letting me know how wealthy,
24:37
rich, maybe influential he was.
24:40
Not in a bad way because he said, but you know what?
24:43
You've got that badge on.
24:45
You can go right into that Oval office and you can go right into this White
24:48
House complex and I can't do that.
24:51
And he says, boy, it's really, and he was doing it just re remarking, you know, of
24:55
reminding me and others, what a privilege.
24:59
It's a tough job, don't get me wrong.
25:01
But the privilege is extended to you as a result of that position.
25:04
So he wasn't bragging by any means, he was just, you know, making a comparison.
25:10
Um, I, I wanna go back a bit to the shooting itself.
25:13
Um, I was struck by the fact that when I met you, uh, back in 2017, we were talking
25:19
about this incident and you remarked that, you know, here your job is to take
25:23
a bullet, uh, if, if necessary, to protect the president of the United States.
25:28
Yet you were not wearing a bullet resistant vest.
25:31
Um, I'm, I'm, that's one of my pet peeves.
25:33
Every officer needs to be wearing his vest.
25:35
Every officer needs to be wearing their seatbelt when driving a vehicle.
25:39
Um, and a lot of 'em don't.
25:41
And, uh, back in 1981, it might not have been as, uh, popular as
25:45
it is today among law enforcement, but you were not wearing your vest.
25:48
And I, I'm just curious as to why, and has that changed over the years?
25:54
Well, my wife asked that too, Craig, why I wasn't wearing it that day.
25:59
And we were all fitted with vests.
26:01
We had them.
26:03
Now the vests back then in 81 aren't anywhere near as good as the ones we have
26:08
now in 2025 that are, uh, more flexible.
26:13
And ours were, were form fitted, but now they're even more
26:16
form fitted, more flexible.
26:17
Not quite as hot, but they're hot under any circumstances.
26:21
So the policy at that time was that you didn't wear them, that you could wear
26:25
24 7 if you wanted to, but it was only required if there was adverse intelligence
26:30
information or on foreign trips.
26:34
So, no, I didn't have it on that day.
26:36
There was no intelligence to indicate anything outta the ordinary.
26:39
In fact, no one had him on that day, and we had bulletproof vests for the
26:42
president too, by the way, of every type of garment that you can imagine.
26:48
After that, it became mandatory on almost all occasions to wear it.
26:52
Uh, but they weren't quite as, they're never gonna be really comfortable.
26:56
But, uh, you know, they weren't flexible at all at that time.
27:00
Uh, probably weren't nearly as form fitted as they are now.
27:04
But no, it wasn't the policy to wear them on all occasions.
27:08
And on that occasion, I was not wearing it.
27:10
And, uh, if I had had that on, I would've, uh, it, uh, it would've been.
27:15
The round would've never been, it would've been inconsequential at, at totally
27:20
Have there been other policy changes, Tim, uh, since that incident, uh, you
27:24
mentioned the metal detectors being used.
27:27
Uh, anything else that comes to mind that's done differently today
27:30
than back in that I. Uh, 1981?
27:32
The counter assault teams were on, on site all the time and in the motorcade.
27:36
Uh, it wasn't long after that that Anwar Sadat was killed by his
27:40
own military in a very organized assault and af and that has changed.
27:46
I. And then there's been other, uh, changes in the advance work that I'm,
27:49
I'm not gonna get into Craig, because it's sure things that need not be, uh,
27:53
released, but there's been other changes in the advance work that's being done,
27:58
how it's being done, how the crowds are being monitored and things of that nature.
28:03
Tim, you did mention earlier about how there hasn't been another assassination
28:09
attempt since the implementation of the metal metal detectors on the president.
28:15
On the president, yeah.
28:16
On, on the president.
28:17
But let's, let's talk about, uh, well, I guess he was the
28:20
president elect then, right?
28:22
For Trump and those two circumstances that everybody's familiar with, I mean, those
28:28
people, uh, in both situations weren't.
28:32
Part of a crowd or near the president where they would've gone through,
28:36
uh, a metal detector obviously, but, but, uh, let's get your insight and
28:42
thoughts about those two situations.
28:45
Sure.
28:46
Butler was a complete failure.
28:48
Uh, while there is a distinct perimeter, which is set up largely
28:53
for handguns using metal detectors, any area that the president is in.
28:59
The secure area is infinite It.
29:03
It doesn't stop at a fence.
29:04
It doesn't stop anywhere.
29:06
That's why you have counter sniper teams up there, which.
29:10
I was surprised, frankly, as at that time he was a former president, a
29:15
candidate but not a president-elect.
29:17
And they did use metal detectors there, but the perimeter doesn't end at the
29:21
fence line or at the perimeter, uh, of where people are being screened.
29:25
And that's why you have counter sniper teams.
29:27
And a simple failure was not posting that building of putting someone on it.
29:32
And it appears to me, and I saw the report that was done, pardon me,
29:38
that they relied upon the counter sniper team to cover the building.
29:42
That's not their role to cover the building.
29:45
Their role is to, uh, react to a threat on the building, but
29:49
it should have been covered.
29:51
And it was not simple, uh, mis uh, a catastrophic mistake that
29:58
should have never happened.
29:59
And the.
30:01
Uh, the advanced agents, you know, there's, I haven't seen the consequences
30:06
yet for it, but it was a failure and it was a, it was a failure that
30:09
should never, ever have happened.
30:11
The building and any other building within reasonable range should have
30:17
been posted and secured, didn't happen.
30:20
And there was other buildings, I think there was a water tower
30:24
that wasn't posted either, so it was a failure, plain and simple.
30:29
So what, what, what about the communications?
30:31
You know, when, when, when I was working our SRT teams and Dignitary Protection
30:37
people would work with the SE Secret Service in and around Miami all the time.
30:41
When people would come in and, and we were al it was always
30:44
linked up with communications.
30:46
You could communicate directly back and forth.
30:48
And, you know, even, uh, in Trump's first.
30:52
Presidency.
30:53
I had, uh, been requested and had the opportunity to drive in his
30:57
motorcade on a couple occasions.
30:59
So, you know, I saw the communications and so that, that whole thing in
31:04
Butler, I was just surprised how there was a lack of radio communications
31:10
and, and the passing of the buck.
31:12
I just, uh, didn't understand all that.
31:15
It was not the, uh, presentations by the former director and the.
31:19
Uh, interim director.
31:21
Were, were not our best days.
31:23
Uh, but communications were totally flawed as well.
31:26
Now, as you know, bill, everyone can't be on the same channel.
31:31
You, you know, when a, when a incident takes place, you know,
31:35
communications break down.
31:36
But what should have happened is that they sh the, uh, communications should
31:40
have been an integrated communication center where everyone is there.
31:44
The sheriff, the city sheriff, secret Service.
31:49
Everyone in that room, they don't have to be on top of each other.
31:52
So, so information is shared.
31:55
You're, you're 10 or 20 feet apart, we just got information.
31:58
You just walk over and give it to your counterpart.
32:00
Uh, being on the same frequency.
32:01
If something happens, communications break down.
32:04
So that's what should have happened.
32:06
And apparently that didn't happen either.
32:08
And you know, there was, uh, you know, there's information about
32:13
someone with a range finder, and I know they did finally get it out.
32:18
It didn't get out in a timely fashion, and they never really put all the, the,
32:23
the dots together of what was happening.
32:26
So there was a breakdown in communications that might've prevented
32:30
this, and there was a breakdown in the advance that would've prevented it.
32:34
Uh, in my view.
32:36
There was also a breakdown.
32:38
They did have the drone technology there and it wasn't working, so they
32:45
would've been able to detect the drone.
32:47
It didn't work, so they weren't able to detect that it was there.
32:52
Um, so there was multiple breakdowns, but the biggest one was if someone
32:57
had been posted on that building, in spite of all the other mistakes
33:00
that were made, it would've largely probably prevented it or there would've
33:05
been a shootout between, uh, the gunman and the officer posted there.
33:10
So, uh, total breakdown, lot of inexperience.
33:14
Um.
33:14
Uh, a lot of inexperienced agents there that might've been thrust into roles
33:20
that they really weren't prepared for.
33:23
Um, so, uh, getting over to West Palm
33:30
while we, we had weeks before we had Butler, now we just had one assassination
33:38
attempt and it appears to me that they.
33:45
Uh, the president goes golfing almost every Sunday.
33:48
Everybody knows it.
33:49
I know it, you know it, everyone knows it.
33:52
If he's in, in West Palm, he's going golfing on Sunday to his golf course.
33:58
Um, so we have this person that gets there 12 hours ahead of time
34:02
and plants himself in the bushes.
34:06
There is no one covering that roadway next to it.
34:09
It should have been blocked off.
34:13
Or at least posted with officers, agents, or both.
34:18
And that wasn't done and they acted as if it was an off the record movement.
34:22
And off the record, movements have an element of security connected to them
34:27
if no one knows they're going there.
34:29
But with everyone knows that former President Trump golfs on Sunday and they
34:35
had a golf cart ahead of the president.
34:37
So, you know, um, golf courses are measured in yards.
34:42
Not feet.
34:43
And we know pistols.
34:45
You know, we're, we're pretty good up to about 25 yards.
34:48
Some, some of our colleagues are good further than that.
34:52
And I don't know quite how far away he was from, um, the president, but
34:57
the agent, as far as I know, that engaged him and, and really did a
35:01
superb job spotting him, engaging him.
35:04
As far as I know, he engaged him with his pistol.
35:06
And, uh, it would've been a lot better off if he was engaging him with an M
35:10
four, and I am curious why he didn't have one in my police department.
35:16
We got m fours 25 years ago.
35:21
For patrol officers, you had to qualify, of course, and as far as I
35:25
know, he engaged him with a pistol.
35:27
But why?
35:28
It was treated as an off the record impromptu movement, literally weeks
35:33
after an assassination attempt.
35:36
That road wasn't, if nothing else, while he was on the, the holes adjacent
35:40
to a pub, uh, a public highway, they should have been blocked off.
35:44
Uh, they should have been blocked off and posted in my view, and
35:48
they were not so mistakes again.
35:51
And I haven't seen the reports, so I don't know much about exactly why it wasn't.
35:58
Who is responsible for, you know, deciding that an off the record, that this should
36:03
be treated as an off the record movement.
36:05
So haven't seen the report on that yet and waiting for it to come out.
36:09
What remarkable insights from Tim McCarthy on both the 1981 Reagan assassination
36:15
attempt and the recent incidents involving former President Trump.
36:19
Tim's expert analysis highlights how security protocols have evolved
36:24
and where they still fall short.
36:26
In part two of our conversation, we'll explore Tim's perspective
36:30
on Secret Service leadership.
36:32
We'll discuss the controversy or release of John Hinckley Jr and
36:36
we'll hear about his impressive 26 year career as a police chief.
36:41
You won't want to miss Tim's unique insights.
36:44
On the challenges facing law enforcement today drawn from his half century of
36:49
service, join us for the conclusion of our conversation with a true
36:54
Hero Behind the Badge, tim McCarthy.
36:57
This is Dennis Collins for Heroes Behind the Badge, brought to you
37:01
by Citizens Behind the Badge.