Latest / Ready Set Collaborate with Wanda Pearson / From Grief To Grace with Anthony Jones: Forgiveness, Safe Spaces, And The Courage To Heal

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From Grief To Grace with Anthony Jones: Forgiveness, Safe Spaces, And The Courage To Heal · Ready Set Collaborate with Wanda Pearson

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Ready Set Collaborate with Wanda Pearson.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is where ideas spark, connections grow, and collaborations fuse success.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in for inspiring stories, expert insights, and game-changing conversations.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's build, connect, and thrive together.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, collaboration is the key to success.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, welcome to another powerful episode of ReadySet Collaborate with Wanda Pearson, where collaboration is the key to success.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: And healing it is a courageous journey.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is Anthony Jones, the educator, author, grief counsel consultant whose mission is to create safe spaces for men to grow stronger spiritually, mentally, and emotionally.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Anthony is the author of the impactful book, How to Forgive God.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's a powerful title, I tell you.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Where he bravely addresses grief, loss, faith, and the difficult questions many people, especially men, struggle to voice.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: As we close out our month-long focus on forgiveness, this conversation will challenge, heal, and prepare our hearts for deeper freedom and understanding.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Anthony, to the ReadySet Collaborate Podcast.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you being, and you're going to be my last guest for December for our podcast.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: You saved the best for last.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing how we met.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was actually speaking at the Book Prophets Club, the pop-up shot.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for coming out to me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I gave you my book and you gave me your book.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, and I promise Wanda the information that you were disseminating that day and just giving out on forgiveness.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was taking notes.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you, I was taking notes, and I was looking for those notes just the other day.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you it was just everything that you were saying was right on time.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like you say, my book is entitled How to Forgive God, but not only forgiving God, but also forgiving man as well.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then going another step, we also have to forgive ourselves.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get into that later on.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was gonna say, we gotta forgive ourselves.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't understand that, but we have to forgive ourselves first.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm actually my book is going to be coming in our first quarter, forgiveness, welcome to freedom to God's grace.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's gonna, I'm gonna get even more depth.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Then you gotta come to the conference in January, New Year, New Year.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, the speakers and talk about forgiveness.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, okay.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you gotta come to that.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be even more powerful.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I will be there.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be there.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, that's January 25th.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: January 25th.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, thank you for telling me way in advance because my schedule is booked in between all the nonprofit work that I do.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I work about three jobs right now when you add in an author.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: That is a job within the channel.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing because God puts you into different, you wonder how you're gonna do it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't my husband said, Can I get on your schedule?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm running.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm running all the time.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had four meetings every day this week.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And actually this week I have you, but tonight is our date night.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to the high museum.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's nice.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: The jazz.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So every third, every third Friday, they have jazz there.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do know about the high as a former art teacher.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very familiar with the high we had a lot of our profession professional development meetings there.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just looking at the information that they had because I think one Sunday out of the month is free as well for patrons and guests.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to get back into that art world.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've been out of the field for a little while.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, both of our daughters, but my younger one, she's my graphic designer, but she's my artist as well.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: As one of my older daughter, she's interior design, and she's my promotional.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's my promotional item.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we have an artistic family.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not artistic.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh Lord.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it skipped over you and jumped into.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: I do everything else.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I do everything else as far as that.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's he actually, my husband, he's uh me actually with his print shop for 25 years.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why the younger one was working with him in the office when she got as far as learning the graphic design, all the things that she's learned also with graduating from Georgia State.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: But man, listen, let's get this started.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Started because we would just talk about everything here.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So as we were doing before the show started.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: So let me read your bio real quick, and then we're gonna get into some quick questions here and get to know more about Anthony Jones.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, Anthony Jones, as I mentioned, is an educator, author, and grief consultant, and his purpose is to create a safe space for men to become stronger spiritually, mentally, and emotionally.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Excuse my voice.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: I might also not decide to try to get a clone now.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Anthony's book, How to Forgive God, is his testimony of how he overcame grief and depression after losing his eight-year-old son in a car accident.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Anthony is currently completing his Masters of Divinity and it is a minister in the youth department.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Anthony is a mentor within a community and is involved with several nonprofits providing mentorship to young males.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: His favorite quote is by Ralph Waldor Emerson.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Your action speaks so loudly, I can hear what you're saying.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he spends his life in a relentless pursuit of goals instead of talking about them.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love that, Anthony.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: That was one of my things is that actually Dennis said this when we before we got me.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Action speaks louder than words.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I throw that up in his face.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Action speaks louder than words.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the quote says.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Your actions are speaking so loudly, I can't hear what you're saying.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people I love that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna take that, I'm gonna put it on the wall somewhere.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: So Anthony's life work is that his personal trauma causes people to dive deeper into a more authentic relationship with God and embrace the healing which is necessary to move towards mental and emotional wholeness.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Anthony, this is great.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: It really tells how what you are, it's what's what you do.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I really appreciate that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You sharing that with me.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna take a swig on my teeth, but I'm gonna ask you a question.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna ask my question.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can you share your personal journey?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: What led you to this work as a grief consultant?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the funny thing is, I did not realize it, but grief consulting and consulting period has been my life's work.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ever since I was in middle school, people would talk to me and they would just talk on and on about their problems and different things that were going on.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And even though we were in middle school, we had grown-up drama going on at 12, 13, and 14.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of my female friends would come to me and they would talk and they say, Oh, you're a good listener.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And being a good listener is also being an active listener and watching body language and really thinking through what the person is saying and not necessarily thinking about your response.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times we're in conversations with other people and they're barely hearing what we're saying because they're really thinking in terms of what their response is or how they negate what we're saying because they don't agree.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I've been in consulting since I was about 13.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm now 44, 31 years.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the other part, the grief arena, I've always been the type of person that if a family member loses someone, I'm at the funeral.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just always felt like it was my duty to be there for the family.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the problem was I've always had an issue or apprehension when it comes to what to say to the person after the funeral because I'm the type of person, I don't want to just talk, just to be talking.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, words hurt, words transform.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Man, you have to be very intentional with your words.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm naturally an introvert.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I a lot of times I would rather keep to myself rather than to say the wrong thing just to be just to have had something to say.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been in this space, but really what brought me into this space is what you said in in my intro.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And my journey really started with me actually losing my son.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that was over 11 years ago.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was actually in a I lost him in a car accident.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: He was riding in the car, and the person who was driving the car lost control of the vehicle.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: The vehicle flipped several times, and he was ejected from the vehicle, and the vehicle then fell on top of him.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So he died on the scene, never even made it to the hospital.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I spoke to the state trooper over the phone, and the state troop told me, Mr.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Jones, I've seen a lot of different things in my line of work, but I would highly recommend that you don't see your son.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not in this state.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was immediate grief because at that point I was married to my son's mother, and my daughter was also in the accident as well.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's 21.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, my son actually would have turned 20 on the 9th last week.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: But when we got the call, the person on the other line, on the other side, uh, on the other side of the line, I'm sorry, was saying that we've been in an accident and little aunt has passed away.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was all in the first 60 seconds of the conversation.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was immediately thrust into my own journey of grief.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And pretty much now, as for the last 10 years, when people hear about my journey and my story and me losing my son, it automatically sets an environment, a safe space, because they feel as though, wow, you understand what grief is all about.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so they feel uh very, very easy just coming to me and speaking to me about their grief.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm more so of a liaison to get them more help.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer, I am not a certified counselor.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: My my undergrad is in psychol psychology and counseling, and I am a teacher by trade.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is my 18th year as an educator, but I'm the person that you speak to at the onset, and I help you to get resources such as grief share and counseling, and I myself am in counseling as well.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's powerful.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you understand as far as green.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, how why is it so important to create safe spaces, specifically for men to heal?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad you asked that question because a lot of times men don't get asked that question.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: The assumption with men is that we are supposed to have this macho persona.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard different quotes: real men don't cry, don't show weakness.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So many different things, so many different things.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: The funny thing is, very quickly, when I entered the profession of teaching, I entered as a day-to-day substitute teacher.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And as I was going into my first week or two, one of the teachers, one of the veteran teachers, told me, Don't smile, don't go in there smiling.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was laughing and I was happy because I was coming out of, I was coming out of security, which I did not like security.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I had been in it too long and it was had become a dead-end job.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I was happy to finally be an educated.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I wanted to be an educator since high school, and I had all these positive mentors, so on and so forth.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: She told me, don't smile.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh Lord, am I now a correctional officer?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was going in to help save the world and make an impact on a child.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But to be honest with you, that's that's something that sometimes men are told, don't show weakness, don't smile, don't laugh too much, don't show any type of crack in the armor.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is very important for men to know that it's okay to have emotions.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the things, now the funny thing is my fiance and I, we just had a webinar on Tuesday, and it was he grieves, she grieves, and it was all about the holiday grief.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of times, women don't understand that men are really just struggling to figure out how to articulate what they're feeling.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say it within a relationship, if you're trying to create a safe space for a man, number one, don't interrogate them, don't be too invasive with your questions and different things like that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in several conversations with women over the last 40 years of my life, and it has felt more like an interrogation rather than a conversation.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Don't interrogate, conversate.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Don't put that light on and make me feel as I'm as though I'm about to do 10 to 20 for any and everything that I may say, and whatever I say may be held against me later on.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you wonder you you're married, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna that's why I'm laughing a lot.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: I hear you're married for 44 years, and I tell you God, because like you said, don't interrogate, and sometimes that's a score.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's a Scorpio too.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's a Scorpio in me sometimes, and I ask the question, then he may take it the wrong way.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, but I love it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Don't no interrogate, conversate.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Did you all hear that audience?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we need to put that on the screen in big letters, you know.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm telling you, don't yeah, don't tell you, exactly.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So your book is entitled How to Forgive.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's powerful.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: What inspired you to write this title?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And also, why did you decide to write this book when losing your son?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I love writing.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought I would be an ELA teacher.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up being an art teacher, but ELA has always been my passion.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've even right now in my Masters of Divinity, sometimes when we're given different papers to write, I actually enjoy writing the papers.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is sometimes finding the time to actually write the papers in between everything that I do with being involved in several different nonprofits and working several jobs for profit.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: But when I lost my son in 2014, in 2015, I started writing because I, as I went back to work, because I was off the accident happened in July, I was off work all the way up until December.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: My family and I, we were in counseling.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I went back to work, I just started writing.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was honestly, me being a Christian and me having a calling to preach all my life, a lot of times I would hear sermons and different things like that in my head, and I'm just writing out what I'm hearing, what would thus say the Lord is giving me.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I remember being at work and I'm just writing, writing, writing.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one day, I promise you, the words that were coming to me were coming to me so fast I could barely even keep up with the pen.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I went to the computer, I could barely keep up typing on the keys.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2015, my my first which is she's my first lady now, but she's my cousin, she and she's my realtor as well, a very important person in my life.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: She came down to my house and she said, God sent me down here to tell you that you need to write the book.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Wow, that's amazing because I hadn't told anyone that I'm writing the book.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know I was writing the book.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just doing what God is telling me to do.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when you all read the book, it's more so of a message that God wants to get to his people.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a memoir of my my about my relationship with my son and all the memories and so on and so forth.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Only the first chapter really addresses my testimony and how everything rolled out as far as the accident and concerned in the days afterwards.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is really something that God wanted to speak to his people about our relationship with him and how to be more transparent with him and how to be more transparent with ourselves.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really how the book came about, just really being obedient.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love that because as you said that, the same thing was said to me with one of my clients.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Wonder God told me to call you.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because I said I would never write a book.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna disobey God.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I was doing the same thing.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was writing it in my journal and didn't know I already had my chapter written.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I had it written because that was a way for me to express myself on paper as far as how I was feeling, especially when you go into depression.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure that's probably what happened with you as well.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: For real.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And God knows because other people need to hear your story, and that's what I love about you as far as you sharing that, you helping people.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So how does forgiveness look like when it's directed toward God?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So my story is I've known I got saved at the age of 13.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we all as Christians know that means that you join the church, you join the body of Christ, and so on and so forth.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I got saved at 13 with my family, my my mom, my dad, and my brother.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Shortly after then, I would be watching different preachers like Joyce Meyer and all these different people, and I would hear the sermon being re-preached in my head.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, wow, God, what is this going on?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking to and I'm thinking within myself, I'm thinking, I know God don't want me to be a preacher because I want to be a rapper.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love to write poetry and so on and so forth.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I said, so I started talking to myself and thinking, you know what, maybe I'll be a ghostwriter for other preachers because what the little bit that I know about preaching and preachers, it doesn't seem like a fun life, but I just wanted to live a regular, normal, successful life that involved fun, whatever fun entail.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: But not all this sacrifice and laying on the floor praying for people and dealing with hard-headed folks that don't want to listen to you anyway.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: It just didn't seem like something I wanted to do.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But once again, being obedient to God, I started leading youth ministry sometimes, like during Bible study, and I became one of the mentors in my youth ministry.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So for 20 years, from from 2000, I'm sorry, from the age of 13 to about the age of 33, I did it all.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was on each and every auxiliary in the church, the street witnessing team, the choir, and everything like that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt as though I was safe.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: The angels are watching over my children, I pray over my children, I put oil all over the head, and I do all the things you know that you're supposed to do.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I always felt like I was in a space where certain things would not happen to me.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: When I lost my son, which my son has my name, he's Anthony Jr.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't decide to name him Jr.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was a spirit-led decision as well.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I could not, for the life of me, understand why God would allow something like this to happen to me as one of his servants.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So even they even had a song that's that says, I'm a friend of God.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, Lord, is this the way you treat your friends?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what do you do to your enemies?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's something walking my mind now.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a friend of God.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's what forgiveness comes into play because it's like, why would you do this to me?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Especially now that was this your only son.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I only have two kids, my daughter and my son, correct.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, wow, wow.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: That that that's something that's deep, and I understand exactly the hurt that you're because I lost a lot of my siblings as well.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I've been reading your book, and I know you had seven siblings starting off, and one died at five years old.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Fine, yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're one that I if you don't mind, your viewers, viewers.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm speaking to you directly.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: You need to get this book.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've been reading this book, God's Grace Through the Fire.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm normally not the type of person who reads a book chapter by chapter.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I read one chapter and I apply it to my life, and I may never get to that book again.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: This book, you all, you need to get this book because this book grips it catches your attention, and the chapters are short.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you can continue to move, but it's an actual storyline, and then you you insert the scriptures and different things like that.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I can't wait to continue to read your book because I want to know what's about to happen next, what's going on with these red shoes, and your mother jumped over a Jumped from one apartment to the next, and the angels carried her, and then you ran downstairs.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh man, this is like a thriller movie or something like that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You may be able to turn this into a short film one day.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it was something funny, Anthony, because I actually buried a lot of that deep inside.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't remember, but those particular ones that I spread, that came right to the just happened yesterday, especially with my mother.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: But no, and while I wrote that book, I wanted to have people go through the journey with me.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had a journal after each chapter.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I want you all to write down your journal to get through, you know, exactly what you may go on through.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: But no, thank you for saying that.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate the feedback on that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, the book is so intense.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just reading.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what's about to happen next.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely appreciate the feedback on that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, one what is one thing that you think women need to know about men and their emotions?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I guess piggybacking on what I said before, we are struggling to first, number one, understand what we're feeling.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, the struggle would be to uh articulate it to another person.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about every man, but I exist in my head a lot.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm what they call an extroverted introvert.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we met at that particular, that particular conference on Sunday, Book Prophets Club, and I love talking to people and everything, but I love to not be around people and to just be in my own space listening to jazz music and so on and so forth.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, I would say to the women that you have to show some patience.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just very quickly I want to say this.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is my 18th year as an educator, and I'm working at a charter school now in Riverdale.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so we actually just lost a teacher over the weekend, and we were called into an emergency faculty meeting on Monday by the principal.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And when the principal broke the news to us, I wonder, I just I couldn't believe it because I had just spoken to her last week, Thursday or Friday, and I had been speaking to her for the last two weeks because I knew that she was not feeling well, and she said that she caught something and so on and so forth.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right after the new the principal broke the news to us, and all the coworkers started crying, and I'm watching the scene, and I'm thinking, oh wow.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But within myself as a male, I felt the tears welling up.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I felt them coming, and I knew because everyone else was crying.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: For a lot of people were already crying, I knew that it was a safe space to cry.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But somewhere deep down inside of me, I still was pushing the tears back.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't know why.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, it is just it's difficult to engage with your emotions as a man.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I would just tell women to get your man some counseling.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know what I'm saying?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the things really I have another counseling appointment next week, Tuesday.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I've been in counseling for the last what three, three or four years, off and on.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I went through, I finished my grief share group.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Please get him some counseling.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be his counselor.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can I can we put that on the screen as well?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be you can you cannot be his everything, God is his everything.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: We and my pastor talks about this.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: He talks about, I'm gonna say this.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: He said that the Bible says that our iron sharpens iron, but the iron that a man needs is another male, the iron that a woman needs is another woman.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: You understand what I'm saying?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because we our makeup is different and it goes more than just our anatomy.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So please get your husband, boyfriend, fiance, your brother, your uncle, whoever it is, please push him into counsel.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times you can access this through your job, through your insurance.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that there are so many different free resources as well.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mentioned, the grief share group.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's a free resource that's often hosted by churches, local churches.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great, but it sometimes men don't want to do cancel.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: They don't think they, you know, their masculinity.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm not gonna talk to somebody like I got a grandson.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't want to talk to anybody else about my business.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's you know, so well, I'm a social worker.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: I tell them, I said, I can help you with that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: So he does, he does open up to me.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but it's so difficult.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So now how can faith both challenge support someone walking through loss?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So faith is like I said, faith is tiny as a mustard seed.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: So how can that tell us about what you think?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, and if you don't mind, I just want to put a quick plug.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord also created the Lord also inspired me to create the pool hall.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the pool hall has become a very safe space for me in this year.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: We had our first event in March, and then we had our last event just in October.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: So every other month we've been getting together and actually playing pool.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we ran out of space and we come together and we fellowship, we eat, we play pool.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: We had the NAACP president just at our last meeting, and he was signing up memberships.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And but I would urge men to join some type of group or some type of community of men.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to go in with the intent of trying to find someone that you can crown their shoulder on the first day, but just being around like-minded people and knowing that when you get into those moments where you need someone, you actually have someone that you can call out to or you can reach out to in that way, suicide, depression, and all these other things, you have an ally.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: But and speaking in terms of being an ally, faith is our ally.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you, I couldn't have made it the last 11 years without faith.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, because it was such a huge disappointment, I did stop going to church just for a little while, just for a little while, and and I just really had to wrap my mind around what was going on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then we went back to church, and then we became involved in the church, and then I was MIT, ministering training, and then I was the pastors, not the secretary, I'm sorry, but then I was the youth pastor, and then I was and then we started feeding the homeless.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it honestly it takes faith is what changes our perspective.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: With a quote, did they say life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So faith is what activates your response.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: God is what God is who allows you to be able to respond to life's events in the correct way because life is going to happen to you no matter who you are.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things that I've learned in my experience the last 11 years.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, I have my brother, he was a minister, uh, and he died a good two years.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But he did this sermon, you got to go through to understand why you're going through it, to be able to get to it.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I was talking to my other brother.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I keep forget, but you gotta go through.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: God takes you through situations that help you to learn from your mistake, to be able to understand why you had to go through that situation, right?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that was that's one of my things that I always say, you got to go through to get through to understand.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's in my book, too.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll see it in.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still reading.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't put it down, nothing, but I was reading yesterday while I was in the classroom.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, thank you.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: We can actually wind it down here.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: God, we listen, you're gonna have to be on the show again because we got so many, I got so many other questions to ask you.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: How can loved one support men who are grieving?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's a little bit, but you know, okay.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Be very intentional with your words.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard it all at this point.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard someone told me something, um, and they said, You all were young, you were in your 30s, you can have another child.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we could, but was that a decision that we wanted to make?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: We each as human beings, we have our own individual fingerprints.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: We are all created very unique.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you read the Bible, you know that we're created for a specific purpose, and God has ordained for each one of us to do the thing which He called us to do, and He's known us in the womb before the creation of the world, and so on and so forth.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just be, I would say, as a family member of someone who is grieving, whether they lost the mother or father or uh whatever it is, just the ministry of presence.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm learning this in my master's degree because I'm my master's degree is aligned with chaplaincy.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is my concentration.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the ministry of presence is everything.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: If the person who is going through bereavement will allow you to come to their house or they'll allow you to pick them up, to take them to the store, just being around them and once again not making it an interrogation, you know what I'm saying, making it a conversation.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just be very organic and very natural with this person.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you always get in the car and listen to V103 and jam to the 90s music and everything like that, don't all of a sudden switch on and put on all the Christian music as soon as they get on, get in the car and feel like, oh, you know what, I'm gonna preach to them today because they're gonna come out of this rut and so on and so forth.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, what you're probably gonna do is make them mad.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: You might get cussed out while the gospel music is playing.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: You just be very organic, whatever relationship you have with that person, they need that relationship to continue.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: You understand what I'm saying?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: They need you to continue to be the person that you already were because what they're searching for is some level of normalcy.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're living within a new norm.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And my situation is very different because when you lose a child, that that changes your whole life.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Losing, I still have both of my parents, but losing a parent would be very different or an auntie and uncle, but anyone who doesn't live with you, you can, in some shape, form, or fashion, continue on with your life because you they you all did not cohabitate.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: But when you lose someone that is living in the same household with you, that changes everything.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's like a baby.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was your baby.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: He was my baby, right?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: He was only eight years old.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was two or three weeks right before third grade.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: That that changes everything.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, I tell you, I wish I had more time here.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: But as we close out the forgiveness series, what fine encouragement would you offer our listeners?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: First, you really need to be very introspective of what the incident is.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I talk about this in my book.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: What whatever is going on in you, you first need to process it for yourself.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the type of person who journals.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when I put the pen to the paper, it's like a weight falls off of me sometimes.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: When I can, it's not just about sadness.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can be angry.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can be very angry.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Scorpio as well.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very patient with people to a certain point.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: But once I'm out of, I've lost patience, it's you never existed.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the way I want it to be.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: But so first you need to understand what is going on in your life.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You need to, as we said previously, forgive yourself.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever you did, whatever mistake.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: We are all human, as you and I talked about before the before this broadcast, we are all evolving.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to mess up, you're going to do some stupid stuff, you know what I'm saying, for lack of a better word.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're going to think a day or two from now, you say, Oh, now why did I do that?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, that's the best decision that you could make at that point.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to forgive yourself, you need to forgive God.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't make God the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in your life.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: You need to, now this is very deep, but you need to understand that even though God is omni omnipotent and omnipresent, He allows us as human beings to have a lot of autonomy in this world.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times it's the failure of man that makes things go wrong in life.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: You understand?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to also forgive that man or that woman.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes maybe you need to go and talk to them, or maybe I've heard people say that they will put a chair in front of them and they will just say everything that you would like to say to that person to that chair.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so once you've done that exercise, then maybe you can cipher through, okay, now is it any of this that I really need to go and speak to this person about?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it really depends on the type of relationship that you've had with that person.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in fellowship with this person each and every day, oh, you all definitely need to overcome that breach.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: You need to talk because they're gonna know that you're feeling some type of way towards them.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna feel it.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you don't speak it out with your words, it's gonna come off of you.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Your attitude is gonna be different towards them and so on and so forth.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to be you need to be honest with yourself.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the things that my book attacks is honesty and transparency.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love it.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's how to figure out God moving from disappointment to wholeness.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now tell people how they can get in touch with you, also how they can get your book.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get in contact with me, Facebook.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're on Facebook, and you can go to thepool hall.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Promoting transformation through positive engagement.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can also read an email.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: My email is very simple.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's thepoolhall.com at gmail.com.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: My website is how to forgive God.com.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same title as the book.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there are several different ways that that you can contact me.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I'm an introvert, I love talking to people, I love helping people.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: This has been my life work.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an educator by choice, not by chance.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I love being able to impact people in a positive way.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, awesome.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, we're gonna have to, and this is a great way to end the end of forgiveness series.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, Anthony, thank you so much for your honesty, courage, and compassion.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: This conversation reminds us that forgiveness is not weakness, it is strength.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And healing is not linear, but it is possible.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: To our listeners, as we close the month, focus on forgiveness and prepare for the upcoming release of forgiveness, walking in freedom through God's grace.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Remember this you're allowed to grieve, you're allowed to question, you're allowed to heal.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, this is the ReadySet Collaborator with Wanda Pearson.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, choose healing, choose forgiveness, and keep walking boldly in purpose.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Anthony, for once again coming on the show.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we are gonna have another conversation next year, which is okay.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: I less up my computer says December the 9th things is the best.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, almost here, but no, thank you for being on the show.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I really wish everybody happy holidays and happy holidays to you.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: But we're big together soon.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: But remember January 25th.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm having that speaking again.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Anthony.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks again, once again, and happy holidays, Mira.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: That wraps up another episode of Ready Set Collaborate with Wanda Pearson.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you found inspiration and valuable insights to help you build meaningful connections and successful collaborations.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, share, and stay tuned for more great discussions.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep collaborating and making an impact.