Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #53: CDC Acknowledges Natural Immunity & Untold Impact on Next Generation

Transcript

Episode #53: CDC Acknowledges Natural Immunity & Untold Impact on Next Generation · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's counterintuitive, you know, because when we see things, we we tend to want to get involved, right?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: You want to fix it, you want to help.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't think for our listeners, Cena, neither you nor I is impugning the the sincerity of heart or the desire of people who enacted these regulations.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we could we could go off on that and sure we could find plenty of things to find fault with, but it doesn't do any good to say they had evil intent or ill intent or anything like that.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm convinced, and this is heresy to say, but I'm convinced that if the government hadn't done anything, anything, and just let people make their individual choices, some to go out to eat and some not, some businesses to close and some not, some people to go to farmers market and some not.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, some to have birthday parties and some not.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: That if it had done anything, it wouldn't have been any worse than it was, including people who wanted to go see their loved ones in uh in the hospital or rehab centers or nursing homes uh to be able to go and and and and visit them.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels, the podcast with yours truly, Joel Salatin, the farmer, and Dr.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, our fearless leader in research and scientific measures.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have a very interesting kind of a current event thing that's just happened in that the uh the CDC has issued a new ruling, and Cena, as usual, is all over it, and we're gonna discuss it for a moment.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh Cena, go ahead and introduce what the CDC has said.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Joel.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So on Thursday, August 11th, the CDC issued their new guidance on COVID measures.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And for the first time since the pandemic started, the CDC is now publicly announcing what you and I have known from the beginning: that natural immunity does in fact exist, that vaccine-induced immunity does wane over time, and that there should not be any segregation between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it only took two years, Joel.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the truth came out.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it I mean, just think about the number of people like you and I who were vilified.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, uh vilified through this whole uh thing.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just um it it's it's almost unbelievable.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It uh history, history does have a way of kind of uh you know, uh correcting things, I guess.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and let me read it straight from the CDC so people know that uh you know, we're not exaggerating this.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so and we'll put the link in the description box.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can read it for yourself.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is what the CDC is saying.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, continues to circulate globally, high levels of vaccine and infection-induced immunity and the availability of effective treatments and prevention tools has substantially reduced the risk for medically significant COVID-19 illness, such as um acute illness and post-COVID-19 conditions and associated hospitalizations and death.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So they're actually going as far as to say that this infection-induced immunity, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is going to be your natural immunity, that it is um substantially, quoting from them, substantially reducing the risk for significant COVID-19 illness.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not even just acknowledging it, they're saying that natural immunity does significantly reduce your risk of severe illness.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's just uh what a what a what a turnaround when they were just uh absolutely, you know, uh the word that comes to my mind, it keeps coming to my mind is vilifying.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: They were they were vilifying the the doctors.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, remember the great the Great Barrington Declaration and all of that, all that sort of thing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it reminds me of a of a speech I heard one time.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was you know kind of centering around uh policy.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when do you when do you uh enact policy, for example, to you know, to deal with issues in a in a society.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and and the speaker was a pilot.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, one of the first things, uh I'm just telling you, you know, what he said.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I've never flown an airplane, so I don't know about this, but you know, his whole point was that uh one of the first things you learn when you're when you're learning to fly an airplane is the airplane is made that if you take all your hands off the control, everything, the the plane will fly level.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't nosedive, it doesn't, you know, climb, it just it just flies level.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and what happens is he said, you know, uh, especially students, they get up there, there's a little turbulence, a bump, and and you and you you you panic, you uh whatever, you you get fearful.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the natural tendency is whenever we're a little bit fearful, is to grab those controls and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna fix this, I'm gonna correct this, I'm gonna uh do something.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when actually the the right thing to do is just take your hands off the controls, sit back, and everything will level out.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's counterintuitive, you know, because because when we when we see things, we we tend to want to get involved, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: You you you want to fix it, you want to help, you wanna and and I I don't think um uh just for our you know for our listeners, Cena, neither you nor I is impugning the the sincerity of heart or the desire of of people who who enacted these regulations.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we could we could go off on that and sure we could find plenty of things to find fault with, but but it doesn't do any good to say they had evil intent or ill intent or anything like that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but um you know I I'm convinced, and this is heresy to say, but I'm convinced that if the government hadn't done anything, anything, and just let people make their individual choices, some to go out to eat and some not, some businesses to close and some not, some people to go to farmers market and some not.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, some to have birthday parties and some not.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: That if it had done anything, it wouldn't have been any worse than it than it was, um, you know, including people who wanted to go see their loved ones in uh in the hospital or rehab centers uh or nursing homes uh to be able to go and and and and visit them.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is that is that kind of your sense or your take?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I'm gonna now that we're behind a paywall, so so we can speak a little more freely here, I'm gonna take it a step further.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think that in some circumstances, um it would have been substantially more beneficial for some groups of people at least to have had no restrictions applied to them.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, and what I'm talking about specifically at this point are um babies who were born during the pandemic.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this is near and dear to my heart because, as you know, my youngest Trinity, she was born during the pandemic.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I was I was pregnant uh um in my first trimester at the peak of the pandemic.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And now what we're seeing is um scientific studies coming out, reports that are saying that there's um delays, developmental delays across all aspects of early development in a majority of these what they're calling pandemic babies.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's amazing because we're we're seeing, I mean, I think I think it's now axiomatic that school children, school children are behind.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're we're seeing all sorts of reports on that.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was just kind of a given.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you would you would assume that a baby um would be kind of, you know, whatever, outside that fray, you know, outside that whole thing.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but apparently what you're finding is even even babies, infants uh that weren't school age, that weren't, you know, caught up in all that, are in trouble.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so what we're finding is that it at least, and it's not gonna be across the board, but it's a high enough percentage of children now that we're having more, you know, universities and studies coming out to examine this.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're seeing is that in many cases um they are more disadvantaged than the children who went to school.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's a greater impact on the babies um and toddlers than the children that were in school.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And two of the studies that have just come out were from Brown and Columbia Universities, um, so you know, reputable universities.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, these are um um early early versions of the study.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: We'll include these in the description box as well.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the first study, Cena, sorry, just to make sure I understand, you said uh that they're more disadvantaged than school-aged kids.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Did you mean more disadvantaged than school-aged kids who were excluded from the classroom?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, okay, yes.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, in one study, this is what they're saying, as they're finding, we find that children born during the pandemic have significantly reduced verbal, motor, and overall cognitive performance compared to children born pre-pandemic.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so across the board, motor skills, verbal skills, and cognitive performance.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and another study is saying that the in-uterol exposure um to okay, so let me back up.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, the second study is also emphasizing that the environment in the uterus is a big player in terms of the development of the baby.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you and I have talked about this before in terms of attachment trauma.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what this study is saying is that that is um there's more evidence to support that when there's a large amount of stress on the baby in utero, that that is affecting development across the board.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that is exactly what they're seeing.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're seeing that infants born during the pandemic, quote, had significantly lower scores on gross motor, fine motor, and personal social subdomains when compared to their historic cohorts.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then infants born to women who were in the first trimester of pregnancy during the peak of the pandemic had the lowest personal social scores.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see why this intrigued me, because I was pregnant in the first trimester with Trinity during the peak of the pandemic.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing I liked about this study is that they teased out if the mother was exposed to COVID or not.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if she actually had an infection, did that make a difference in terms of these developmental delays of the baby?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they found it did not.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there were develop, yes, there were still developmental delays, um, still significant whether or not the woman actually had COVID when she was pregnant.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um one thing, and I'm gonna add a personal story here.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So one reason why this really um uh struck struck home for me, and I wanted to share it with our tribe, is because um I haven't shared this before, but um this is a primary reason why we moved out of Virginia.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what we found was, you know, Trinity was born obviously during COVID, and where we lived, everything shut down pretty much.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Everything shut down, and tons of people were wearing masks, um, and some are still wearing masks today.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're we had people with masks and face shields on and gloves and everything.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So um, um and it didn't lighten up like it did in other areas, it was just constant.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I, like you, very libertarian.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you do you, I'll do me.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't hurt each other.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to wear masks, totally cool.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: You wear a mask.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were saying at the beginning of this episode, we all get to pick our own level of freedom that we want to practice.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, but what happened was when we started taking Trinity out into public, like going to a grocery store or you know, any any kind of errand we were doing to try to expose her to build up her immunity?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was wearing masks around us, and we would take her to public and she would just start screaming.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime she saw somebody, she would start screaming.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we thought, okay, I wonder, you know, at the time we weren't exactly sure why she was screaming.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: We were thinking, is this a um social developmental delay because we've been so isolated for so long in our community, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like we didn't people people weren't even wanting to do play dates at this time, okay?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So she had no other interaction.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we thought, did we do this to her by socially isolating her so much?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then what happened was we went to Tennessee.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, we were um driving around trying to find a community that resonated.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we drove to Tennessee and nobody was wearing a mask.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: We go out, we're doing, we're going, we went to a church there, we went to, you know, the touristy areas, we were out and about all the time.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I kid you not, Joel, Trinity was an entirely different child.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: From the moment we got there and took her out and there were no masks, she started running around, right, running right up to people, saying, Hi, hi.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know how she does when we get on Zoom and she'll come and say hi to you.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what she was doing.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, hi.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she was touching people.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: We went into the church and there were probably about 300 people just like mingling around, socializing.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: She left us and she just started running around the church, touching people, saying, Hi, hi.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I get back, and you know, we go to the pediatrician for, you know, the well check that's supposed to be voluntary, which is not right.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we go to this well check appointment.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, we have a like my like-minded pediatrician.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling the pediatrician this experience, and I'm almost in tears because I'm saying to her, Oh my goodness, I knew that these um that the masks affected our um mental health as adults and and my older children.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it did affect us because when we went to Tennessee and there were no masks, it was like a weight lifted by by like day two of our vacation in Tennessee.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we forgot about COVID.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even on our mind anymore.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like a return to normal, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew it affected us, but we downplayed the effect on Trinity.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: We just figured she wasn't old enough, she wasn't gonna remember it, whatever.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: My pediatrician said to me, and remember, she's a friend, okay?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: My pediatrician said to me, in her clinic, the amount of anxiety among babies and toddlers in particular has skyrocketed not only since the start of COVID when she saw it when we were isolating, but but because of all the masks and all the masking in the school systems, it has skyrocketed the level of anxiety where children are actually having what she calls nervous breakdowns.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Her advice to me, as not only our pediatrician, but as my friend, her advice to me was move your children out of this area, or she will have long-term developmental issues.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: That now that's uh even as close as you and I are.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first you've um you've shared that with me.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's um, you know, I I'm I'm harking back to the fall of 2020.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So think about the fall of 2020 when the uh you know when the Weston A.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Price Foundation um uh lost their they they were, you know, they had their annual uh meeting scheduled for Atlanta, and then three weeks before it was to happen, the conference center called them and canceled them.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they had a they had an opportunity to book out the whole conference center for three months or something.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, they were they were starving for you know rooms to be filled, and so they paid the penalty and to take the the bigger things.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's business, it's not it's not nice, but it's I guess it's you know legal.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was in the contract.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, when they and then and then they they called and said, could they come here to the farm, you know, to to have uh just something do something.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and they came, and this was in uh this was in early November of 2020.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um you know, we had, I don't know what, you know, almost 300 people here, no masks.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: They were hugging, they were doing, and and of course, you know, we got we we got uh destroyed in the local newspaper for sponsoring a super spreader event.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they called us.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this local farm does a super.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we lost customers, we we we were just uh um anyway, it it it was not it was not fun.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And but but what I remember about that was the emotional the emotional levity among people who came who had been in this unbelievable lockdown, and to um again, you know, if it it nobody was required to come, you know, uh and and and um if I remember correctly, one or two people did wear masks, but it was like one or two out of you know 300.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um and and it was just like it was just like a like a lifting, a a lifting of everything.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, we when you're putting all that stuff on, you're even though it might be subconscious, your subconscious is interacting with your mind uh about about fear.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um don't it is that that's that's what's happening.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I think it's just amazing that we're seeing such broad, broad uh um ramifications of these policies.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one area that I think got like fell through the cracks because you know the babies in utero and the babies born and the toddlers, they don't have a voice, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody was like speaking up for them.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if even if you think about it, when you when they're babies and toddlers, a lot of the communication is actually nonverbal.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they're using facial facial cues, right?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Body language, and a lot of those are walking around in the state of fear that shows in your body, and the baby can read it in the body and they can feel it, they can feel the energy, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they're using using the um facial cues to in order to find where where is my place in this tribe?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Am I safe?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and when they can't see the face, right, they're not getting those cues from.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And my pediatrician explained it to us like this that my older kids, at least you can say to them, this is why the what people are wearing masks, whenever you can explain it, you can't rationalize it or logic your way out of it with a baby or toddler.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so when the baby goes outside of the home and sees all these people with the masks, and they can't, they don't have that nonverbal ability to see um if they're safe or not by looking at the person's face.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: What they do is they see the person's face covered, they can't identify them necessarily as a person.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And in her words, they see the person as a quote unquote monster.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they go outside of the house and they're just seeing monsters, so they're just scared, like you know, on all fronts, they're just scared.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like like in in invasion of the aliens or something.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, and and having, and since I've spent uh you know, time with Temple Grandon, you know, Dr.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Temple Grandin, the the the um, you know, animal uh behaviors, you know, it it I I've never had this thought.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is brand new thoughts, you know, that that that we that that we become more human because uh a little a little infant like that, they're more like they're more like an animal.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about me right now, my my my right, and and and uh they don't have a sense of time, they don't have a calendar, a schedule.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can't reason.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so part of our development as humans is logic, logic and reasoning and and analytical, you know, analytical thought.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's so we become um less less like an animal, if I may, you know, be real visceral here.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: We become less like an animal uh as we develop.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so these little babies and toddlers uh are much more susceptible to those kind of uh um animal type instinctual responses uh to unknowns, uh uh just just like a like a dog or a cat or a cow or anything um that that we that we see that way.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it it does it does make sense that it would be more traumatizing because they can't analyze it, you can't reason with them, you can't logic them through it than it is an older child that's you know five, six or seven, and this will just be for a while, and you know, then it'll be done and da da da.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, exactly.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and I think this is, you know, I don't know if I share this with you either, but when we went to an outdoor um science event um in Virginia, and this was for you know kids like from five to twelve, roughly, outside, and everybody was all on their blankets.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was your social distance.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: You had to stay on your blanket.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Trinity got up at one point and from her blanket and was kind of walking.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Walking over to one of the other kids on a different blanket.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the kid had a nervous breakdown.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: The kid started freaking out.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would say he was probably six.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: The kid started screaming, grabbing for his mother, saying, She's too close, she's too close.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like screaming, had such a breakdown, like hysterical.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: The mother had to take this kid away from the group back into the house.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that that's traumatizing to see that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So so what that means, Cena, is just think if you and I could be a fly on the wall, if you and I could be a fly on the wall in some of these homes to hear the conversations, that's right.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these parents must have put the fear.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they some of these parents must have absolutely created paranoia in their children, don't you think?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh for them to react that way.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then when the kids go outside and they're they're seeing it, right?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're seeing it in the nonverbal, they're seeing it in the posture of the people, they're seeing it like, oh, stand away from us.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like we would have people, we'd be in the grocery store, we'd have people walk far away from us because they didn't want to be near us in the grocery store.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, kids pick up on that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll add too, so just an interesting comparison, okay.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just it's just an N of two here.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um we have somebody in our family who has um who also she gave birth to a child right around the time that Trinity was born.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, they're about six weeks apart.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So she goes back to work and she puts her child in daycare where you know everyone's masked, okay?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: My child's obviously home with me.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Trinity, uh, praise God, is um advanced on all of these measurements, you know, the cognitive, the social uh abilities, the motor skills, whatnot.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's like not even two yet, and she's talking in full sentences.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: She's learning Spanish with us now.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: We did sign language with her.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's doing great, praise God.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: However, and again, this is just a one-to-one comparison.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: The family member who has the child six months older, or sorry, six weeks older than Trinity, who was exposed to um, you know, the mass chronically, this child now needs speech therapy.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So can't can't, you know, is behind in the language abilities and whatnot, um, also fearful.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: And this is not the only one I'm hearing about this.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where I'm hearing a lot of people around Trinity's age and a little bit older now needing speech therapy.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And now get this.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So she was she had her child's speech therapy, and then all of a sudden the company passed this new rule that even the speech therapist, while they were doing speech lessons with this child, and it wasn't even in a group, it was one-on-one.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So while the speech therapist is trying to teach the child how to speak, needed to put a mask on.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So now the child can't even see the lips move to be able to, you know, pick up on speech.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's crazy.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is crazy.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Goodness, you know, if if um if if if Helen Keller uh had lived during this time, uh she would have never spoken.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: She would have never been Helen Keller because she couldn't have, you know, put her uh finger on the lips and and and figured out how to how to uh get anything.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just uh remarkable how much um uh you know how many ramifications are around here.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what what is what is your sense?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so these infants and toddlers, and we're we're about out of time here, but uh I just want to ask you, is there any sense in the research um or from your own you know anecdotal experience is this is this um is this rectifiable?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, are they are they gonna grow out of it or is this uh how much remediation is it gonna take to you know to deal with this?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I come from the standpoint that I think everything is reversible, as you know, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can reverse disease, you can reverse this, um, these deficits in a neural development, all right?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: However, um it's gonna take effort and time from the parents, right?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It it's choices that the parents are gonna make.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's if they're gonna put them into, let's say, if they have to go into a daycare, are they gonna stand up and say, I don't want to put them in a daycare where you're masking, you know, which is gonna just make their development even more delayed, right?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it really comes down to the parents who who are having these issues, recognizing I'm not powerless.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: There is something I can do here to help my child, and don't just rely on the government to try to fix it, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what's probably coming next.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have all these taxpayer-funded programs to help these under, you know, a disadvantaged, underserved population.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So don't rely on them.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Take, take the bull by the horns, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Realize you are powerful and you are influential as their parent and make the choices like we did.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: This was my driving force to this was the final nail to get us out of that area was to protect my child.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you don't have to move out of a different area, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like we did.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that worked for us.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can do something that's less invasive and intrusive in your life, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, by making these other decisions.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Don't have them in these um environments where they're mass all the time, you know.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, work with them, hug them a lot, assure them that they are safe, because that's the biggest part is that we now um in this age group, as um as these children are developing the ability to come in and out of fight or flight.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, we've talked about that too.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: They are not this the nervous system is not developed enough yet to be able to come in and out of fight or flight, which means they can't self-soothe.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to be working on that because now the input is the whole world is scary to me.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they're going to be in a state of chronic fight or flight, most likely, which will prime them for not only these developmental delays, but for disease, autoimmune and chronic disease later in life, you know, more susceptible to things like allergies and things like that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So really work on trying to get them out of the state of chronic fear.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's wonderful.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it I can't help but as we close out the podcast here, I can't help but but kind of uh uh just make a make a little point here of our beyond labels, uh, our beyond labels persona here.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: That here are these children now, suddenly they know they're having to go to a therapist and and and and they're hearing they're hearing adults talk over them and about them and around them about well, you know, he's he's um um slow to speak or or or disadvantaged or or whatever.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so now suddenly this little infant, this little you know, three-year-old, two-year-old is hearing labels.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're being labeled, and um, and as you and I know, those early labels are are are stigmatizing.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're stigmatizing for for life.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we want to we want to get beyond labels.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the other the other reaction that I have is what you just said is is to feel powerful.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's easy for you and I to say, buck up here, folks, you know, and and you've got power, but you got to realize that is that is a hundred and eighty degree shift from the mentality, the persona that they've been that they've been um that they've been exemplifying.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: So so for a family who has been paranoid for two years, to tell that mom and dad, buck up, you have the power, you know, uh make your choice it counter to everything they've been they've been uh fueling internally, they've been fueling this internally for a couple of years.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so um so I agree, but the real the realistic in me says, um, you know, that's that's a big that's a big shift.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big shift, you know, for for the parents to take, um, obviously for the sake of the children, but it's a big step for the parents to take as well.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and yeah, and I my heart goes out to them because we we dealt with that too, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: We were scared, you know, nobody really knew what was happening.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we went through that phase too.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, oh, let's let's stock up on our N95 mask and everything.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we went through that too.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we we had to come through the whole journey um and figure out what was right for our family and give other people grace, you know, and give ourselves grace for choices.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, but and then for but for us, the that was just the final driver was that we realized that we were hurting our children.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so how could we re-rectify that?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: But by all means, you're exactly right.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can't you can't teach your child not to be afraid if you are afraid.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's that's that's exactly right.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: That that's where I was headed with this.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but Cena, that's just that's just fascinating.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for bringing uh that research to us.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's um, you know, uh uh uh Thomas Jefferson always said, you know, knowledge is power.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so what we want to do on these podcasts obviously is is arm people.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always you know uh warm, fuzzy uh information, you know.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's sometimes really um uh sobering information, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: But but it if you know it, and then we encourage you to how to counteract it, you know, we can we can be better parents, better people, and and have better kiddos.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh thank thanks for thanks for sharing that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for joining us on this episode of Beyond Light, and we'll see you next time.