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The Fertile Friend: Part I · Love and Science Fertility

• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Hello, my loves, we're back for another episode of the Love and Science podcast, and today we're going to talk about something that I coach on all the time because, wherever we turn, it seems to be in the faces of my patients, of my clients.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: It is that fertile friend, and I cannot tell you how many times a friend who was overall well-meaning but relatively insensitive, has said something or said things over again to my patient or my client and you know it just stinks right, the comments that are made, and we'll talk about some of them.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: It's just this othering, this just feeling of being put down, feeling less than in the face of somebody who doesn't even seem to understand the impact that they have just had by saying something truly awful.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: And you know, even announcing a pregnancy, even though that might seem like the most benign thing ever, can be so incredibly painful.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And so this is actually going to be a two-part series this week we're going to talk about the perspective of the friend with infertility and then next week we're going to talk about the perspective of the friend without infertility and try to bridge that gap.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: So today we'll be talking about the five things that somebody with infertility needs.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Who is dealing with a friend who does not have infertility and doesn't quite realize the impact that they're making in a negative way.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you know we just mentioned how very painful announcing a pregnancy can be.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: My hope is that people who listen to this podcast will share it with their friends who may not have infertility but who may not be aware of how very painful this is for somebody with infertility.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: That we can sort of listen to it to support those whom we love, to gain support when we're feeling very isolated, and that it can just be something that we can all use to bring ourselves closer to each other and in better understanding of each other other and in better understanding of each other.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So, in terms of announcing a pregnancy, just to kind of open this up for people who may not be aware, when a person announces a pregnancy and somebody who has been trying for so long unsuccessfully hears those words or say that that person maybe doesn't have infertility but has had three consecutive losses in the last eight months, it is just so very devastating.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: And even if the person with infertility or losses loves the person, is happy for them in the context of their life, all those things, even if that context is already there, there's an existing good relationship.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: The news just feels like somebody has actually died, which is paradoxical right, because you say this should be happy news but the way that that's received 99% of the time is as a lead balloon, as a death, as a dagger, as something that is just really hard to get on board with in terms of being genuinely happy and supportive for the person who just made that announcement.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: And I think part of it is that we all want to be seen, we all want to be heard, and what happens when there's that announcement it's that the all want to be seen, we all want to be heard, and what happens when there's that announcement it's that the person who's struggling with infertility does not feel seen, does not feel heard, and it can be so very painful and I think, even if there is a well-meaning demeanor there is a well-meaning demeanor it's perceived as a lack of sensitivity to the other person's struggles, and so some things that, if you're the one who's going through a fertility journey, things that might be going through your mind as this is happening is we used to be able to tell each other everything, but now there's this division, there's a separation, you know, I think that.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Another thing that can come up is, you know, once the pregnancy gets far enough along and there's a baby shower announcement and all of that, those activities even if the person with infertility really does love and wants to support the other person going to that shower can be so very triggering, and so the thoughts are like I have to go to her baby shower.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I don't really want to.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: It's just a reminder of what hasn't happened for me in my own life.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Another thing my clients often say is that my well-meaning but insensitive friend gives me advice.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: She tells me just to relax, but she just has no idea what I've gone through, how hard it is, and if relaxing were the ticket through, then I would have already been pregnant, right.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: So I think, just sort of being mindful, that sometimes the advice that we try to give is not even just neutral, it's actually harmful.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not even true and maybe it's well-meaning, but I think sometimes it does a lot of harm and we have to be aware that the person who is going through the fertility journey is in a very vulnerable situation, a very raw situation, and maybe things that people on the other side might not realize are hurtful or painful can be explicitly so and can actually drive a wedge in the friendship.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I think that one thing that's particularly hard is when two people get pregnant at the same time and then one of those people has a loss, because then, you know, all those milestones that are witnessed are, there's that grief there Like, well, I would be 20 weeks pregnant, I would be 28 weeks pregnant, I would be delivering now, and then there's just that sort of internal calendar that keeps repeating itself.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: That can be so very difficult.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I think the person who's undergoing the fertility journey genuinely wants to be happy for the other person, genuinely wants to be happy for the other person.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: But when you think about, like, if you are starving and you see somebody with a ginormous five layer Italian sandwich, you know eating that sandwich and not offering you any, and just just sort of, almost like, like in a gluttonous way, just just eating that sandwich, you know, even if the person who's starving wants to be happy for the person with the sandwich, it's just impossible because their own needs are not being met and it is just such a very devastating and starving place to be truly so.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: I know that all analogies break down somewhere, but I think that it's sort of a good way to think about how it is really hard to be happy for somebody else.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'll say in my own life and this is something I've worked through a lot, but as a divorced person, it used to be very triggering for me to see weddings or happy couples or just going down to the waterfront and seeing people in love.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: That that used to be very, very hard for me, and some days it still is.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Honestly, um, and it's you know.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of another analogy that I think makes us think about what it might be like, right?
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, on those darker days.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Do I really want other people to be in love and be happy?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Do I want people to find their partner and get married and have a long life full of joy and happiness and support?
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: But if in that moment I'm not directly experiencing that myself and that's what I desperately want, and I'm not getting that for some reason, it's really hard to be genuinely happy for the person who does have that thing.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: It's just human nature, right?
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So it's not a personal thing.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I think that's one thing I really want to communicate.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: It's not this is not something to be taken personally, but it's to understand that this is a very complicated situation and it just takes a lot of delicacy and a lot of sensitivity.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: So I do think it hurts so badly because the person on the fertility journey does not feel seen, does not feel understood and truly it feels like the loss of a friend.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: And I think people on both sides of the relationship express that who's undergoing the fertility journey needs to have the best relationship possible and to weather the storm of their own fertility journey in the best way possible.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: So the first thing is oftentimes space.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: It is very hard to even see a pregnant person if you are trying to get pregnant and you're not successful.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It is very hard to hear somebody say, oh, we just got pregnant the first time we tried, or oh, we've never had any problems, or almost.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes and I'm just going to say it there's like this moral superiority for people who can just get pregnant without too much trouble and it's like, okay, it's kind of like saying to somebody who has good digestion versus somebody who has constipation like, oh yeah, I was just blessed with a great digestive system.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know we don't tend to say those sorts of things, but in the face of somebody with extreme constipation.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: It's like why are they bragging about that?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Why it's just the genes that I was dealt, it's just the situation I'm in.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: But I think that we have to be careful not to sort of exert moral superiority if we are the person on the other side of the equation.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So space, I mean.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I think that when we talk about trigger reduction, sometimes what we need to do is give space from that particular trigger and if the presence of a fertile friend or a friend who just can't seem to say the right thing or who is just really saying things that are causing pain to the other friend, I think that space is very appropriate.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: And again, not to take this personally, but to say, hey, like I really care about you.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: However, there's something about your life right now that is reminding me of my own pain and difficulty, and I think I really need to spend time with people who are either not trying to get pregnant or who are on a similar journey to myself right now.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I think that is a very normal, natural thing to ask for.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Again, not taking it personally, but it's a very normal and expected need.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: The second thing that people on the fertility journey need during this time is sensitivity right?
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: The words and actions of people without infertility?
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: They can just be so painful and I know I've said that before, but I hope, if you're listening to this podcast and you do not suffer from infertility, that you just start to understand that it is just incredibly painful to be on the other side and to be struggling.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And there are things that people can do to be more sensitive, to ask the other person how their words are landing.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: That can really really influence the quality of relationship and can really, um, you know, cause more closeness instead of more distance.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: So intense sensitivity, and that is around holidays.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Holidays are particularly hard times for people with infertility.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Um, they're again reminders of what has happened.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Um, back to school can be super difficult.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: All the pictures on social media that's going on right now.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: It's intensely painful for people who are struggling.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: What else?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Some of the softer holidays as well, like Halloween, all the children in their costumes, and again you'd say, like it's not rational to be triggered by that.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: That's just like happy kids in costumes, but if you want nothing more than to have a child yourself and you're being shown these distressing images of just all these other people and their children and again, you never know the full story.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Sometimes people only post the top 5% of what they want to be shown on Facebook.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: But I do think that just sort of people with infertility need a lot of sensitivity around these topics and really refraining from talking about your existing children, talking about your pregnancy, your pregnancy plans, how easy it was for you, whatever it is.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Really just avoid those sorts of things because in the long run it turns out just much better for all involved.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Out just much better for all involved.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: The third thing that people with infertility need is more control over what the conversation content is.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: And so I think you know some people do want like less is more.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: You know they don't want to bring it up Like, say, you're the fertile friend and you know somebody who's had an embryo transfer and they have a pregnancy test.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Some people really don't want that intrusion.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Some people don't want you to loop back and say, hey, how's it going?
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Did that transfer work, all those things Right.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And so I think that the important thing is that you ask the person who's on the journey what they need the most for support.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe they want more frequent check ins, maybe they don't want anything spoken about this unless they bring it up themselves.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: But I think you know one example I like to give around holiday season is like, hey, I'm going to see you at this Christmas party and I know you're struggling with this process right now.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Do you want to bring it up, or do you want me to bring it up, or do you want it to be off the table in terms of conversation, and that's just like.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: You know you're going to see the person.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: You know that there's going to be this awkwardness in terms of what may or may not be shared, but if that sort of question is asked ahead of time, it puts the person with infertility in the driver's seat.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And I will tell you there are so many aspects of life that feel out of control Schedule, finances, timing, lack of good results, hearing bad news, all those things.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: And so if you can give that person the control over sort of what the content is, what the timing is, how they want the conversations to go, that will help a lot.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: The fourth thing that people with infertility need on the journey is one-on-one time with you as their friend.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I will say say you are the fertile friend and you have a toddler and you're like, oh, what's the big deal, we'll just go for a walk and I'll put the toddler in the stroller as they nap.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, what's the big deal, we'll just go for a walk and I'll put the toddler in the stroller as they nap.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: That usually does not work well, right?
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So when there's a kid around, everything seems to focus on the kid, like their nap schedule, what they're eating, what they're doing in preschool, whatever it is.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: It's really really, really hard to talk about anything adult and have any sort of meaningful adult conversation.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And then the focus becomes the kid, which of course it does, because kids take a lot of energy.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: But then it's just further a reminder that one person has a kid, the other person doesn't, and there's that divide, no-transcript.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: It can be just very triggering and it can take away from the original bond of what connects you.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: The fifth thing that somebody on a fertility journey really needs, as they're going through this with friends who may be fertile, is permission to step away from the friendship temporarily, and I understand that this might seem kind of alarming or disconcerting because it's like, hey, we've been friends for 20 years and now it's happening.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Or maybe your colleagues in medicine and you've done everything together since you were in residency, you know all the whatever it is like let the person on the journey be in the driver's seat right and you know there will be a time when that person's fertility journey, you know, comes to fruition and hopefully they get what they're hoping for, which is either to build their family or to have a child in the first place, all of those things.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: But I think sometimes it can be very, very hard because we take it personally.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I'm saying we kind of the other person on the other side of the equation, right, in terms of somebody doesn't want to spend time with us, or they're not as sort of chatty as they used to be, or they don't want to spend time with us, or, um, they're not as sort of chatty as they used to be, or they don't want to go to the kid's birthday party or whatever it is.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: But just understanding that that person's in a dark place, just as you would treat a friend who is a widow, who's just lost her husband, or something like that, right, this is a very raw, vulnerable time and it really has to be led by the person who's going through the struggle.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: So just to reiterate the five things that really can be helpful for somebody who's on the fertility journey.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: The first one is space, right, so really allowing space for that person as they need it.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: The second is intense sensitivity words, actions, holidays, anniversaries, all of it.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: The third thing is control over the content of the conversation, in terms of, specifically, in terms of how much stuff about fertility to talk about and how much not to talk about.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The fourth thing is one-on-one time, right, so friend to friend, and trying not to bring children into that mix, unless the person specifically says they want to see the kid.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I think just understanding that children can be triggering and it's usually best to try to make it as much adult time as possible.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And then the fifth thing is to know that, hey, if this is a quality relationship, it is going to endure the test of time.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Right, there were times, say, you were in training together when you were on different rotations, or maybe you were in different cities for different parts of your training, or maybe you were friends in residency and then you went to different places for fellowship and then you lost touch and then came back.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Friendships have seasons, just like intimate relationships do, and if this is a quality friendship.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: It is going to endure the tests of time and, interestingly, giving that space, giving that permission to let the friendship grow apart temporarily while the person with the fertility journey is sorting, falling apart, right that actually in the long run can strengthen a relationship.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Because it's like I see you, I understand you, or I'm trying to understand you, and I know this is a really hard time Like, let me know what you need, because I'm here for you and I love you and I don't want to make anything worse.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: So you know, I think that friendship is, is it's one of those things that gosh.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I wish I could make it easier than it is.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I think that, especially as women, sometimes we naturally compare ourselves to each other.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I truly think, as I've said before, that the 11th commandment should be thou shall not compare.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I've even seen two people on the fertility journey compare their own journeys, like well, I got this many embryos, how many did you get?
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think we just need to take the metrics aside, take a step away and say who are you, what do you need, what is the most helpful for you right now and how can I be that friend and do your best?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, we all are doing our best and if we can hold each other in love and sensitivity and understanding, I think then we will find a way through.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: So please do share this, please listen if you're on the fertility journey, and just know that you're not alone, that every single person goes through this at some point, and tending to your emotions, tending to your feelings, finding a supportive community of people who understand it's all so important.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So just hopefully it's validating that you're not the only one and that this is really something that people talk to me about every single day of my entire life, because it's just so very painful and powerful.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: If you are the fertile friend who's listening, please take these suggestions to heart.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Please put the relationship in the driver's seat of the person who's struggling and hold space.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Show up with love and don't take it personally if certain things about you or your journey are triggering, because unfortunately that's just the way it is, and with enough love, with enough space, with enough attention and permission, there is a way through.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, my loves.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: See you next week when we'll talk about it from especially the perspective of the person who perhaps doesn't have infertility and what they need to know Okay, talk to you, loves soon, bye.