Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1181 - When Mama Bear Strikes: A Deeper Look

Transcript

#1181 - When Mama Bear Strikes: A Deeper Look · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Recently in South Australia, a mum crossed lines by going
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: into a classroom and screaming, threatening swearing at a year
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: eight student because her daughter was being bullied by that
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: student allegedly, and it made national news headlines. Today we
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: talk about that, well, about that incident, but more what
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: do we do when our children are being bullied? Is
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: it ever okay to confront the person that we think
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: is doing the wrong stuff. Hello and welcome to the
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We've considered carefully whether we do or do not wade
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: into these waters, and we've decided, with some new information
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: that it's worth stepping in.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: It never seas us to amaze me how the media
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: skews stories for the benefit of some clickbait, and in
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: this instance, I think that it has been entirely misrepresented.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Recently, on the Kyle and Jackie Oh radio show, they
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: got hold of the Adelaide mum who was at the
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: center of the funeral. They had a chat with her.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to play a couple of pieces of audio
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: from their interview with the mum, starting with what actually
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: happened in the classroom. This is audio from one of
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the kid's phones. WHOA, that's intense, so you can see
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: why this made national headlines. What's astonishing is when you
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: hear this mum talking to Kyle.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: And Jack, Hi, Hello, Hello, how am I? Oh?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: You sound so sweet?
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: Every mum is sweet until mamma bear gets Now, look, listen,
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: we're not going to identify you. I know, because you
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: know the media spotlight's all over you, and you did
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: what you did. But you know what, a lot of
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: mums and a lot of dads, they say, you know
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: what's sick of going through the proper channels and nothing happening.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: They can understand why you did this, Kylie.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: This is one of those situations where you hear the explosion,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: then you hear the mum and you think, how can
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: that even be the same person. Social media has been polarized.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Some people are saying absolutely not okay, because when you
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: hear it, you can see why a parent getting in
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the face of a year age child like that is stunning.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: But social media also saying we need more of this,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and Kyle the voice of the people saying, yeah, this
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: is I'm on your side here. I want to support you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I want to suggest that two things can be true
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: at once, both can be right.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: The idea that you would confront a student in that
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: situation and in that way is just it's wrong on
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: every level. We have crossed every conceivable line when we
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: think that that behavior is.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, And yet it's appropriate to stand in solidarity with
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: a parent who is saying I've just gone beyond my
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: tipping point because of the fear that I have for
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: my child's life.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: What's really fascinating to me is what happens next in
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the interview?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Can I ask mum, first of all, what was the
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: bullying that was taking place? How bad was it? What
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: was happening to your daughter?
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: There's actually a group of them. So it first started
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: off with a comment made to her to state, hey,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: have you had plastic surgery, Dell, because it looks like
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: it hasn't worked and you're an ugly sullen So yeah,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Now what happened is that planted a little bit of
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: a feed in her brain and she stopped eating. I
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: would find Muldy sandwiches in her bag and she stopped
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: eating for a long period of time, and I would
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: see my thirteen year old be the story. She would
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: go a beautiful thing in your old girl to nothing.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: It's like she was empty and she had nothing left.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: More context helps us to realize the nature of the
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: challenge that this young girl was experiencing and the deep,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: deep concern that her mum had for not only her
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: well being but her safety.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Once you start to get context again, it's not okay
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: to go into a classroom and behave the way that
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: she behaved. But all of a sudden you can sort
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: of see where where this turns to desperation, this turns
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: utter fear for your child's well being.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: If it wasn't for this interview, I was left grappling
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: with how it was even conceivable that she got into
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: a classroom.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Well, let's have a listen to what she says to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Kyle and Jack next to explain that.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: How often do you read in the newspaper another young
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: girl took her life because of bullying and nothing happened.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So you were invited into the classroom and then yes,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I was to talk to the bullies.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: So what actually happened is they didn't know. They must
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: have thought I would have been a parent or something.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: They obviously knew that I was a parent. I actually
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: went into the classroom and stated, is this girl here?
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: And they said, yeah, she's fight over there, no problem.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: So I turned to the girl and I said, and
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: I was calm, I said, excuse me, I said, look,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: did you say that to my daughter? Well? She actually
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: got quite upty and said, and who the do you
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: think you are to me? Thirteen year old?
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thirteen years I'm in rage right now.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Honestly they didn't show that part, which is frustrating. And
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: then she turned around to me and said, do you
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: know who my dad is? And I said, no, I don't,
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: but I hope he realizes how much of a bully.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to stop the interview there. We
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: can't replay all of Kyle and Jack's interview and their
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: entire radio show, But all of a sudden, you see
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the complexity, the challenge, the difficulty, and the huge, huge
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: motion that's conveyed in this situation and our conversation now
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: that there is a little bit more context, is what
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: are you supposed to do when you're the parent? Is
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: it ever okay to go to the classroom and have
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a chat with the child's what's supposed to happen with
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the school? How do we do this? It sounds like, Kylie,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: and again we still don't have the full story, but
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: it sounds like it's just a gigantic mess and it's
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: been managed quite poorly at a number of levels, from
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: a number of different angles.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: So if we were to make this conversation productive for
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: parents who are dealing with this kind of thing, so
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: we don't end up with more of these kinds of
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: news stories across our feeds, how can we help parents
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: move forward in positive ways to ensure the safety psychologically, physically,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: mentally for our children.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: There were too many stories last year where this ended
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: in tragedy. We can't have it happen anymore. After the break,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: we're going to share with you a handful of things
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: that you can do as a parent to avoid anything
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: resembling this, Okay, Kylie. Too many schools are failing when
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: it comes to dealing with bullying. There are some schools
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: that do it exceptionally well, they're really really on the ball,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: but too many are failing. One of the main reasons
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: for that is because too many schools are trying to
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: implement something that's known as restorative practice. Restorative practice as
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the Big Bars. A few years ago, it was growth mindset.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Everyone was talking about, You've got to have a growth mindset.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Now it's all about this idea of restorative practice helping
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: people to take some perspective and understand the impact that
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: their behavior is having on the victim. And too many
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: teenagers don't care. They know exactly how to manipulate it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: We also know evidence shows pretty clearly, especially for boys, interestingly,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: that empathy declines as testosterone goes up, and so obviously
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: this is a girl a girl's situation. Nevertheless, restorative practice
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: as a general rule is not nearly as effective as
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the promise that is out there. It's kind of like mindfulness.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Everyone's like, oh, mindfulness this, and that the evidence doesn't
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: support it nearly as well as the hype around it.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you're supposed to do as a parent. Okay,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: we're not going to start giving schools directions here, that's
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: not our job. But we can help parents to deal
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I think the first thing to acknowledge when we're in
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: this situation. Kyle talked about the triggering of the mamma bear,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and it's real. We have this deep sense and need
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: to protect our children and we feel that they're under attack,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: just as we've heard in this thing, there's this beautiful,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: sweet mum but on a hair trigger, literally was enraged
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: by the experience that she had in the classroom. And
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: so remembering that when there are high emotions low intelligence,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: we just we aren't able to access the part of
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: our brain that helps us think rationally clearly and can
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: deal with things in a calm manner.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So we don't have the audio from the video, but
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: if the mum is right and she's been provoked like that,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: this is a terrible situation to be in because she's
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: already hugely sensitive. You can't think straight in a high
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: emotion state. Kaboom, it's explosives, it's in sandry, it's fireworks,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: it's dynamite. It turns into what this has turned into,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: so high e motion's low intelligence. You need to have
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: somebody else either acting as your spokesperson or at least
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: protecting everyone in the room in case things blow up.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Second thing to highlight, you do have to work with
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the school, You have to work with the system. It's
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: a simple reality you talk to the teacher, you talk
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: to the head of well being, you talk to the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: head of you, you talk to the head of house,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: you talk to the system. Principle, you talk to the principle.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: You get the message across, and the best way to
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: do it is with evidence. If you don't have the evidence,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: one of the challenges that you face is the more
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: people you talk to, the more they start to In
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: some cases not all, but in some cases they start
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: to see you and your family is the problem rather
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: than the kid who's doing the bullying. So get the
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: evidence and make sure you're really clear in working with
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: the system. Don't go around the system. It will only backfire.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: It can't possibly work for you when you go around
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  Speaker 1: the system. In the majority of cases, and in.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: This case, she's obviously acknowledged that she's tried to it.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like it.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: But again, keep a diary, keep a journal of all
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: of those in.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: To this person at this time. We discussed these things absolutely,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: because the more you've got that, the more if you
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: need to escalate it, which is the next thing I'm
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: going to suggest, the more you can say here's what
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  Speaker 1: I've done. I'm not being a winging whiner. We have
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: got evidence and here are the conversations, and spoke.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: To this teacher this day, but you have three more
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: messages from girls this night. Correct, just keep a running
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: dialogue of what's going on.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: You've got to tell your kids not to delete the
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: stuff that's on their phone too, just for that. So
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the next thing is, if you've got to escalate it,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: go as high as you can to get the outcomes
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: you need. So if we're dealing with a private school,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: you go to the principal, or you go to the board.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: If you're dealing with the public school, you go to
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the Department of Education. You've also got access to two
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: other government authorities. You've got the police, and if you've
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: got good evidence, the police are empowered to act. Furthermore,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: you can go online to the e Safety website e
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: safety dot gov dot AU. Julian mcgrant, the E Safety Commissioner,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: cannot get the word out enough that this website exists
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to help. We don't know if this mum in this
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: case has done it, and we're not really talking about
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: that anymore. Rather, here are the steps to take Kylie.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: We've been through this with a couple of our kids,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: but quite seriously in the last few years with one
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: of them. Our decision was that we didn't bother escalating it.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: We worked with the school till we saw it wasn't working,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and then.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I guess the most important thing to understand here is
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: that we did work with the school and they were
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: extremely supportive.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: They actually were of our child.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: The challenge is you can't change other people, and so
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: while they were working with the other girl and they
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: were working with our daughter, we were not reaping the
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: benefits of that conversation.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And so we decided and the.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Most important thing for us was child needed to feel
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: safe or she did not feel safe. So taking her
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: out of that environment was literally the only option We
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: needed to remove her from that so that she felt
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: like she had psychological and physical safety. That needs to
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: be a consideration, even when you don't know what other
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: options are out there.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fundamentally, our job is to keep our kids safe.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And that's why this mum has lost it. She wants
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to keep her daughter safe. Yeah, I don't know that
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: it was the most productive way that she could have
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: done it.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, the acknowledgment that we all have to understand is
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: that we cannot control anyone else's behavior. And if that's
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: the case, our kids are being hurt by other people,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: then if the only option available to us is to
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: remove them, that is the option.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: The last thing that we need to touch on is
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the importance of building a community around your kids. We
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: have discussed this a number of times in our own home.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I can't remember if we've talked about on the pot
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: or not, but I'm increasedly of the opinion that having
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: children hanging out with a whole lot of other kids
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: their age is not in their best interests. Historically, culturally, anthropologically,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: across time, clans, tribes, whatever, children did not associate with
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: all of the other kids their age. They would have
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: played with other kids, but they spent most of the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: time in the company of adults, being mentored and showing
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: the way to live their lives. And there's wisdom in that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: I would much rather our children sit at the dining
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: table with our adult friends and learn from them than
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: hang out with a bunch of other kids their age
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: and talk about I don't know, like Taylor Swift, like
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: come on, let's get on with our lives and folks
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: on stuff that matters and be seen as unconditionally in
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the most positive light possible, which mature adult it's more
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: likely to do.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: A few weeks ago, one of our family friends recognized
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: that one of our daughters was having a hard time,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: and she came to me and she said, Hey, I
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: was wondering if you'd mind if I spent some time
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: with your daughter. She's been on my mind and I
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: thought it'd be.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Nice to spend some time with How awesome is that.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: She took her home to her place and they cooked
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: some cookies and spent some time, you know, chatting. That night,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: when our daughter came home, she said, Mum, she said,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: it was so nice to have someone other than you
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: check in and see how I was doing, recognizing and
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: knowing that she felt seen and heard and valued that
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: she There.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Was no competition, right like all the other kids their age,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: they're all competing with each other for attention and for
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: look at me, I need, I've got status. But when
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: when it's a kid with an adult, there's no there's
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: no status competition. They've just got that unadditional.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: And uninterrupted like that. There's literally there is, like you said,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: no competition. They've just got their undivided attention and it was.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: It just was so beautiful, and I'm so grateful to
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: my friend for recognizing it.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: All Right, we need to wrap it up. Our time
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: is well spent. I really hope that this conversation has
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: number one, given you more context on how this situation
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: got so bad, but number two giving you some suggestions
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: on how you can help your child if they are
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: in a situation where they're being bullied. Lots of food
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: for thought, lots to consider, lots to talk about. The
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more information and more resources to make
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: your family happier, visit us at happy families dot com
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: dot au