Latest / Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan / NVIDIA’s Open-Source Bet, Vision Pro Bends Reality & The Robot City Tradeoff

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NVIDIA’s Open-Source Bet, Vision Pro Bends Reality & The Robot City Tradeoff · Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan

• Dre: Yo guys, what's going on? Welcome back to another episode. I feel like it's been a minute since we recorded. I know we haven't. Maybe it's because we pushed it back to later in the week. But man, I'm excited for today. How y'all doing? Rodney: Wanna know a fun fact? They they they they say to be in the top one percent of podcasts, you need to put out thirty podcasts. Dre: Nah, well we made it then. Rodney: See, right, right. So so so we made it on the top one percent as far as consistency. Now we just need to have those results follow, right? So Follow the follow the Patreon, subscribe to the Patreon, you know, subscribe Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: to the YouTube Dre: I love it. Rodney: and all those different things. But it it's it's it's interesting how people will start, but not really follow through. And that i the bar is real low on that. The bar is real I didn't think it would be that low. But yeah, yeah. Anyways, that was just a fun fact. My week's been has been decent. I think I've been locked in, but not as I was zoned in. I was zoned like for for like for for for maybe like a month. Maybe the month of July to mid-August, I felt like a weekend went by. That's how locked in I was. I was so locked in that I felt like it had only been a few days. Like that that that's my brain was Dre: It was yeah, it was has down for all. Rodney: My brain my brain was I thought a couple of days had passed. Like but yeah. Dre: Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm definitely pacing my pacing myself more these days. I just got so many like different th different threads. I don't know how y'all feel about but like context switching is exhausting to me. Brylan: Yeah. Dre: Like, you Rodney: Yeah. Dre: know what I'm saying? Like having to like switch to this and then this and then this and this. So I now I'm just like, you know what, this is it's the cliche saying, right? It's a marathon and not a sprint, right? So for me I'm just like, okay, how do I pace myself? 'Cause Burnout is real, man. I'm actually going on vacation next week. I'm looking forward to that. But even being on vacation, I still gotta work. Like I'm still gonna be still gonna be answering calls and still gonna be solving problems for people. So it never stops, man. Rodney: Bernard is real. What about you, Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: Brown? Brylan: I'm not gonna cap to you, bro. Today, like I I I literally just canceled all my afternoon meetings. I was like mental mentally Rodney: Right. Brylan: I was like, Yeah, I need a I need I need a break, bro. I feel like I've just been like going. And and what does it for me is like there's those moments after like you know, you've been grinding for, you know, consecutive days, weeks or whatever. And then it I don't know about y'all, but for me it's like I realize, I have no fucking clue what day it is. Like every day just Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: seems to blend. Like I've been locked in on this simple routine of like I got three Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: things I need to do. As long as I knock those three things out, like Rodney: I'm good. Brylan: yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's been like that, which I'm glad that, you know, consistency and results, but like yeah, I was like, damn. it's it's Thursday. and it's the end of August. Like, shit. And so yeah, I I've I've been finding Rodney: Right. Brylan: myself in that loop, bro. But nah man, we just locked in the HIROX tickets with Mark. And so yeah, we we we Rodney: Okay. Brylan: him and I him and I are kicking off our training, bro. yeah, our first one is gonna be in February. And we're looking forward to it. We're looking forward to it. Dre: Yeah, I'm looking Rodney: I I w w Dre: forward to seeing that. Rodney: is so I used to work out with Mark every every alm almost every day. We worked out maybe four or five times a week for for a year and a half, two years. Me and Dre used to actu work I used to work out with Dre as well about four times, five times a a week back in those days. It's crazy how time flies, right? We used to stay in the gym. We stayed in the gym, but I'll say with Mark. Don't just look at his training. Ask him about his diet. Ask him about his diet. That's that that's I I I don't I I I don't know. I'm not gonna make no assumptions about what he's doing right now. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: Mm Mark has never seemed to have an issue with going in and training, doing heavy weights, doing matching whatever you doing. But I would say ask him about his diet. Cause he ain't gonna bring that piece up. He ain't gonna bring that up. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: Hey, this thing. This thing. I I I like to usually Rodney: So so ask. Brylan: I like to usually go into these things as and be shown. Because it that that that's that's the reality. Like when when when when it shows Rodney: Nah. Don't let them because you 'cause you might cause you might you you might not like what you see. Brylan: Bro, I've done this, I've done this three times. I've done this three times with like three different people now. At the at this point, I understand my role when it comes to high rocks. Yeah. Now Rodney: No surprises. You wouldn't be surprised, yeah. Brylan: my my my role is to introduce people to it. My my role isn't like at least at this stage, it's not necessarily to compete and win. Just because if I'm gonna be honest, some of these dudes, like, that's all they do. Like, there's you're not gonna be able to win. Beat that. Like, what are we competing against? And so that's not that's Rodney: Right. Brylan: not really why I'm doing it anymore. It's more so like, nah, nigga, we need to be healthy out here. We need to be healthy out here for sure. So I've I've I've accepted that. Don't get me wrong, Rodney: All right. Brylan: I have a time in mind and I usually am disappointed that we didn't reach the time in mind. But like you gotta ch you gotta you gotta, you know, chalk that up and then be like, sh but but your homie now working out. Your home y you know what I mean? Like, so Rodney: Alright, all right, all right, all right. I I give you my two cents. If you wanna use if you wanna use it, Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: use it. If you don't, if you don't hey Dre: What c what city? What city is it gonna be in? Brylan: We're doing it in Chicago. Dre: Chicago, okay. Nice. Brylan: Yeah. I'm I'm I I'm actually doing two that weekend. I'm gonna do two two that's my challenge. My challenge is I'm just gonna do two of. Dre: How long is the competition? Brylan: it on on average it takes people Rodney: Hour and a half. Brylan: like an hour and a half. Yeah. Rodney: Yeah, that's what's up. Yeah. Dre: Okay. Rodney: Br yeah. But Brian, I do feel you on the on the like today, most of my afternoon meetings, you know, they're optional. So I normally I I optional or not, I'm there. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: But nah. I just spent the time mostly just hanging out, talking to my mom and stuff up just just stuff like that. You know, grabbing food and stuff like that. I just prioritize different things. and and I'm currently trying to figure out how to finish strong, finish the year strong. Yeah, because I don't want to flame out. I don't believe in that. I don't believe in okay, we're gonna flame out. Like I still want to have that lock in. I want to pace, but I still want to I don't want to burn out. But I want to plan accordingly. As far as the holidays that are coming up, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Halloween like all these different hol ho you know, Christmas, New Year's. I wanna plan accordingly, like starting now, so that I can properly lock in without burning out. Cause yeah, we we we've all been working hard and I like Dre's approach too. Dre's always been that type of guy, though, that he's gonna take a vacation. Dre always gonna take a vacation. Dre always Dre need us an escape. Dre: Ha ha ha. Rodney: Dre's always trying to escape. Dre: No, for real, bro. I love it. I love it. I'm looking forward to it. I haven't really been nowhere this year other than back to Michigan. so I'm just looking I'm looking forward to that for sure, man. But Michigan's not really a vacation when you got family and stuff, you know. Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You know what's been cool though? It's been cool being out so y y'all know I'm gonna leave a I'm not gonna be in Michigan during the winter. So y'all already know that. Y'all Brylan: Yeah. Dre: Yeah, for sure. Rodney: already know that. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: But I'm I'm here now and I've been I've been in Farmerton Hills. I've been in Birmingham, I've been in Detroit, I've been downtown Detroit. And it's just the the life, especially you you and me you and me, Dre, the my life, all these different things popping into my head. It's crazy. It's crazy. I'm like it's crazy. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: Ch just remembering some of this stuff. It's it's crazy. it's crazy. I don't even know how to to put it, but but yeah, we got a lot of topics or or Dre: We all wanna go first. Should we start with Bill Gates? Rodney: Let's start with Bill. Let me let me just jump right into it. Okay, look. So Bill, yesterday, August 26th, Wednesday, August 26th, came out with this long essay. I didn't read the entire thing, but I used with AI. I was able to pull out some important facts. And he published an AI or or an essay about AI. Essentially Saying that AI is going to be either the great equalizer in the economy, or it's going to be the worst source of injustice. And so it's essentially he's just saying he's just saying either there's going to be a ton of opportunity for people to pull themselves up and move up in the economy and empower themselves, or it's gonna be a class of people that run the whole show. And then a few other things that he mentioned was that he's surprised by the speed of the models. That's not uncommon though. I think other big voices, such as Elon, not so much Sam or Dario, but some of the other bigger guys, maybe even the Microsoft founder and CEOs. I think that most people are surprised by the acceleration of AI. So that that that wasn't a surprising piece. Another another thing is that he wanted to propose a few different solutions. So he talked about something called a token tax, which is similar to a tax that I I had seen before in the past, where essentially we allow AI to come through and basically disrupt everything, but we tax those robots and the AI as if they were human workers. So that that tax revenue goes back to the states and the federal government in such a way that we can fund social services for people who are out of work or maybe training programs, whatever whatever those things might be, essentially. So so so so it's not just that business can say, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna let go of a thousand people and I'm only gonna pay twenty percent No, you're you're you're gonna end up paying you still have a a a discount, but you'll have a tax on top of that, so that revenue is going to taxes still for services. But a token tax kind of comes off a bit more specific on a tax on each token. And maybe that's not exactly what he meant, but that's the kind of what I got from that. And then and then a couple more things is that well Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: he's saying obvious there's no coordinated plan. I think that should be obvious to anybody that's paying attention. Yeah, there's yeah, there there's clearly no plan. They're rushing forward. It's a competitive game. They're trying to win this game. When I say they, I'm talking about SpaceX AI, open AI. anthropic, those are the three that come to mind. Yes, there's Google as well, but they have seem to not have been as much into that conversation. And then the last thing I'll say on this is that this was the interesting one. Now I found it a bit amusing even though it there's a seriousness there's a seriousness to this, but essentially there he wanted to call for certain jobs to be reserved. And the analogy he used was that we're comparing it to the idea of nature reserve where where yeah you there's parts of land that we have that we could demolish and we could you know run over and build cities on and and do w parks or whatever, but we leave it alone for the simple sake of preserving nature. And he's essentially saying that idea could be applied to some jobs with AI, which is interesting. It's a interesting as a concept. I've never heard it framed that way. And but I don't know if if it lands entirely, because nature is a bit more clear. I think when it comes to that, potentially what comes to mind is like artistry, some type of artistry jobs. being protected in some way. But I suspect companies that have something to gain from AI automation with art artistry may not like that. And so they may not just it it's not as simple as the the the the nature reserve thing. So yeah, that's the table I wanted to lay as far as the Bill Gates AISA. Brylan: So let me Dre: Mm-hmm. Brylan: let me ask this question. Yeah, we're we're we're where do y'all stand today on some of these yeah, core risks that, you know, he kinda called out. because I mean it's it's not the first time we've kind of heard this, similar to what you were saying, Rodney. But I do think the beauty of time is it either gives us more evidence to think these things through a little bit more, or we still could just be so early. that, you know, we're still kind of in this, I would say like visionary state where we're imagining what the future might entail, based off of kind of some of the early signals. And so I guess like especially when it comes to job loss, like, yeah, that's that's probably been one of the hugest risk over the last few years. that I feel like has been went through like, you know, peak sandroughs in terms of being loud at some points and then, you know being played down at others. But where do y where do y'all stand on that, today when it comes to like the fear of job loss and and things of that nature based off what y'all are seeing? Dre: I I have the same position that I've always had on it, which is kinda similar to where Bill Gates is kinda coming from. It's similar to where Dario seems to to stand on the impact that AI will have on society. So I tend to sit on that r on that side, which is that if these companies are successful in the pursuit of what they are trying to achieve, I I can't help but think about how certain jobs won't be wiped away. Now, knowing that, yes. There will be replacement roles that come into place. But I do think this is a technology where you're gonna be able to do a lot more with a lot less. And so because of that, I do think that shifts a lot. And you know, a a lot of times the conversation, at least with AI that we have, and again, the least that I see is typically dealing with the software side of it, right? Which I think is huge, right? Like call centers, I think that's huge. marketing and it's huge. Coding. Like I think there's many applications there. But when we started getting into robotics, again, I'm from a blue collar city. You know, I'm from Detroit, right? Where, you know, manufacturing is in the blood of the city. You know, manufacturing is what keeps Detroit in the light zone in Detroit, right? Manufacturing is what keeps places like Flint, other cities are in Michigan, but specifically Detroit, because that's where there's a high concentration auto ma manufacturers and their suppliers. And so manufacturing is important there. And so I for me, you know, I think about the implications of, you know, robotics, you know, being able to produ you know, replicate what humans can do in those factories. What happens to all those jobs? I know Rodney, you know tons of people probably to work in the automotive industry that make great money for for living in that city, work at you Rodney: Definitely. Yeah. I do, yeah. Dre: know, working at the plants, making great money. They just got a crazy Rodney: Yeah. Dre: bonus like a year ago or like negotiated contracts. Like they're up. And so what happens when you don't have those jobs because they go away to automation, again, you either have to create something new or you're gonna have a lot of pissed off people. And so I just don't know if the new jobs will come as fast. I mean, I don't know. I I try not to get too caught up in the hype because history has told history has shown that clearly we've been able to adapt. And I think that's the one skill that humans have. I'm not saying other animals don't have that, but I think that's the one thing that humans have is the ability to adapt. And so I think even if that does happen, I think we'll figure it out. But I do think all the risk factors that Bill mentioned are valid and I think are s some that I think about often. Brylan: What are your thoughts on it? Rodney: For sure. For sure. I agree I agree with Dre on the fact that and and and Bill and and Dario on the fact that you can't deny that there's job displacement coming. You it's undeniable. The question more so is how fast are new jobs being added? And and then those new jobs that are being added, how quickly can people be qualified to do those new jobs? And are those new jobs matching a similar or greater amount of income that they previously had to maintain their livelihoods? So that's what I would that that's what I would get at. I think another thing that I would say though is that ideally though, if this is all happening, food and everything else should go down significantly in price. If we are truly taking AI to its next level, then crops and the way that we we create food the way that the supply and chain is set up, et cetera. We should be able to drive efficiency in every sector. And it should naturally drive the the the cost of food down. And that's just one example of things that is not true today. Right now, people are going to the grocery store and they're seeing food becoming more expensive. So so they're not seeing that now. So I I can't so so I'm talking more about In this world where displacement is more obvious, but at the same time, if displacement is more obvious, that means that AI has reached a tipping point in a virtual and a physical sense, and it may also reflect in some of the goods and services that we consume, which could make some of those things more affordable. It's a theory though, it may not end up that way. It could end up to where all the stuff is the same price or more expensive and all the jobs are being lost. And and that's what nobody wants. But I suspect though that if you're having this job displacement to where you can replace facty workers, but then also, for example, I know tons of people who do tons of work for the city of Detroit, physical work, et cetera. That if any if in any way robotics could could was at a a level to where the it could replace them or Then I would have to assume, though, that those same robotics would be used in other areas of business, such as the food supply, such as other different sectors that we rely on. So for example, the cost to build a house theoretically should go down. So a house today might be 500,000. When even though maybe like 20 years ago that same house might have been 200,000, okay, so due to the inflation or whatever, maybe it's 500 or 400, whatever it is now. But if we have all this AI and robotics, and it's cheaper to build a house, and you can do more for less, then technically we should be built be able to build houses faster and we should be able to build houses cheaper. Now, will they actually be Afforded to people that way? Will infrastructure be built that way as quickly? those are the questions that are unclear that you can't really call out beforehand. You kind of have to see how it unfolds. Dre: my. Rodney: But nonetheless, it's worth monitoring the risk. but I'm hoping so of some of these more positive angles to where If one thing is true, then that might mean some of the other things are true too. Dre: Hmm. Where go Brylan: Yeah. Now I think go ahead. Dre: ahead, brother. No, no, no, you you Brylan: No, I I I I I was just gonna say yeah, I think I think with the job loss thing, man, that one that one is very interesting. Because Yeah, I I I I think it's gonna be something that we may be anticipating coming sooner than than it may actually take. And I think part part part of it is like one, there was like a chart that I think it like Davis Axe or something had put out, but it was from like the Bureau of Labor Statistics. But it was showing how like, you know, for those with actual experience, job like employment was actually increasing versus you know, the whole narrative around like younger folks, recent college grads struggling to get jobs. yeah, be because of that, I don't think you're going to start to see the decline show up until later. And then the other thing too is like I think it's just something I've been like very cognizant of just being like in the physical world. Like there's so many there's so many jobs across like retail, hospitality et cetera, where don't get me wrong, I think some of the back the back office things probably can like, you know, be automated, robotics, whatever. But I mean, yeah, self checkout has been a thing for, you know, a decade or plus or whatever. And it's like Target still has people working the front, front desks, like Walmart does too. Like, don't get me wrong, it that eats up a good chunk of their, you know, transactions. But I think it's a different type of style of transaction. And so like even when I think about like the physical world and some of these jobs, I think, yeah, there will there will be job loss, but I think it's it's gonna end up taking a little bit longer than than we think, because I think even with the physical world, they still have to figure out how the hell they're gonna deploy this, right? And what what what that's even gonna look like for their business. I don't think that's something like where these companies are easily gonna be able to turn that on. And so Yeah, I was saying like the short to medium term, bro. Yeah, I think I think I I th I think the job loss claims are a little a little bit blown out of proportion, in my opinion. Dre: So so you don't think you don't think Grockbot and a lot of these agents are gonna take over any of these non-physical, physical jobs? I think right now we're in a phase of we're still trying to figure out how to get energy to the right places, right? We're still trying to build data centers and like we're still in the infrastructure phase, right? It's like if Amazon had told customers in nineteen ninety-nine that they would have one hour delivery. And have this massive network and all of these scenes, people would be like, what are you talking about? Impossible. Right? Like, no. Like, what are you talking about? Right. And then you fast forward Rodney: Impossible. They're saying it's impossible. Impossible. Yeah. They're saying it's impossible. Dre: 26 years later, 27 years later. And, you know, now after investing all this time and all this infrastructure, now you have new capabilities that again, then was hard to see, but now it's like, shit, obviously they can do all these things, right? And so I think it's kind of gonna be like that. Where we're gonna look up and slowly you're gonna realize that like cost center jobs are going away. Well, what happens to those people? Or like people who sit inside medical people who sit inside like medical facilities and just tell people, hey, sign your name here. May I have your license and insurance? You know what I'm saying? Like there's so many jobs, and I'm not saying those are not thoughtful jobs or not important jobs. Of course they are. They allow people to make make a living for their family. They clearly solve a problem for the business, right? So I'm not saying those jobs are not important, but like What about those jobs, right? What are what do those people do? Right. And then they're gonna try to go compete for the factory jobs or for the jobs in the physical world. Well, if everybody's going for those jobs, there's only so many people that Chrysler is hiring. There's only so many people that Ford is everybody in Detroit would want to work for them if they could. For real, for real, like if you don't go to college and you're not an entrepreneur or like you not got something popping, you wanna go work for one of those because you know they got you gonna get the benefits, Rodney: Yeah. Dre: the pay, all of that. There's only so many slots. It's like the NFL. You know what I'm saying? So w what you gonna do when everybody is trying to fighting for these jobs? Rodney: Yeah. And they'll train you. And and they'll pay that they'll pay for your training. They'll pay you. They'll pay you they'll pay you for training. Dre: But great benefits. Great benefits. Brylan: No. Rodney: They'll pay you for training. Brylan: Then what I what what what I would say if that's if that's the case, right? Like that competition increases, I actually don't foresee like housing and food of that nature getting getting cheaper. Right. Like in part Dre: Milo. Brylan: yeah, part part part of the reason why is like I think you you you could end up having the technology accelerate and create this abundance of housing or food or whatever. But on the flip side, if you're looking at demand, if you got a ton of people needing housing but no money. That's going that's gonna be the interesting situation we're gonna end up finding ourselves in. Dre: We got a problem. You got a problem. Rodney: Well well right, right. Well it's so it's well it's hard. It's hard. I see your point, Riley, but Part of part of Bill Bill's solution is giving people money through the token tax and so and social Brylan: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Rodney: benefits. So it's not that they won't have any money. They will have money. it just won't come from the traditional way of how they're getting it now. And and and so but also I I want to be clear, I don't think that food automation and house automation is even in the five year timeline. I think that it's more of like more like a tenure thing. So I think when when we're in our early 40s, we will look and s and say, wow, okay, houses are being built fast, new cities are being built fast. W we're gonna be I think we'll be shocked at the way the speed of infrastructure. It won't be it won't be the same. Because I think that One there's so much being learned learned by these new data center build outs that that Those same type of models, when I say models, not AI models, but just blueprints on how to build and how to build fast and how to build efficient on a huge scale, which we kind of have to some extent, because we have built skyscrapers, we've built stadiums, we've built arenas, we've built all these things before. But nothing to my knowledge, to this speed with this much money involved. And so for example, when I see Elon. go and try to build a the Terrafab factory, which I believe is likely a ten year project, maybe faster because Elon tries to move fast. All I gotta all I can think is is that it ain't it's not gonna be as to build that same type of thing won't take as long the second time around. In fact, every time he builds some type of new factory, it's faster to build the next time. And I think that when you build this new vision that's a hundred million square feet, which is which is the size of a city, he's essentially saying. And they they did this a little bit with SpaceX, but now they're taking it to another level. He's basically saying we have a blueprint on how to build cities within a few years. We have not ever been able to build cities that quickly in ever in history. And so if we're able to do that, we we might start seeing brand new cities being built in five years or less. Now, this is not to say that it's going to happen in five years. I'm just saying that these things compound faster than we think. And so, and so, and then additionally, they just compound faster than we think. So, no, the do I see food pricing and calcium pricing dropping, dropping? Like, don't hold your breath. Y'all gonna be paying the same for groceries. Like, don't don't do don't don't hold your breath. Yeah, it save up for the house. You're not gonna get lucky. i i if you're eighteen though, you might get lucky. If you're listen if you're listening to this and you're eighteen, you probably is gonna get lucky. But but if you're but if you're our age, you ain't gonna get lucky. You ain't gonna get lucky. Dre: Yeah, and I think to to Bill's point, like the nature is a concept and and to Bradley your point, like you walk into a target and you still see humans. I do think there's certain jobs where as a human, you you wanna pay for that human experience. You know what I'm saying? Like when I if I go to the grocery store, if I'm choosing to go to the grocery store, I kind of do wanna interact with people. Right? Like I kinda wanna see people. I don't necessarily wanna just go to a grocery store where it's just all robots in there, like If I wanna if I want that type of grocery experience, I'll just order online where I don't have to see it, right? And I'm just interacting with the the online system. So for me, I don't know, in certain experiences, you know, if I go to a football game, I wanna see people. I don't want to just watch it on the screen, you know what I'm saying? And in a in a VR headset by myself. Like I think there's certain places that you're gonna go to, certain certain experiences you pay for, like a restaurant, where you you you're gonna wanna see people. And so I do think there will be a subset of those jobs. And I I think, you know, I think the right thing to do, and I think this is the this is the strategic choice that like anthropic is trying to do with r regulation, is that I think in order to drive down prices, you gotta bring competition. I think like unless unless we change our economic model, that has historically only been the way to bring down prices. You you gotta allow competition. And what's happening in the AI space right now is you have people like Dario and Anthropic. This is essentially trying to create a layer of regulation to stop competition, right? And so when you have that, then you will have a subset of people who have control over pricing and who have a lot of power. And so I think the best thing we can do in America is continue to push for free markets, continue to push for open competition. and as people get laid off from jobs, hopefully, you know, people or as people make you know, fortunes from like NVIDIA, which we're gonna talk about their blowout earnings. People go off and start companies, to then go off and do other stuff and make other people wealthy and those people go start companies and we continue to circulate wealth in that way. So I think competition is a way to bring down pricing, not just through automation, which I do think that does help the business. But look, I'm a business owner. If I get more margin, I have no intentions on distributing that back to customers. Like I have no intentions to do that. Like I wanna invest that back into the business. That's just me. I don't know. Some companies are social good and you know, non profits. That's not me. Rodney: Yeah, for sure. So two things. the first thing is is that Dario claims he's not doing what you say that he's doing. He he he claims he's not trying to control pricing. So that's that's that's number one I wanna say. And then Dre: Mm. Rodney: and then he said it, he that's what he said. That's what he said. He said it in his he said he's not what he's what he's trying to do. Dre: very well. Rodney: But but then the the second thing is is that I would agree with you that we might we we're gonna want humans in the experiences that we have. But just because they're not doing the the the the old jobs doesn't mean that we're not gonna have humans involved in the process. So you could imagine a fully all automated grocery store where everybody's just chilling, waiting on their groceries to But it's like it's a hangout spot almost. It's like we chillin'. We talking, we chillin', like we chillin', we hanging out, like my my groceries gonna be done in ten minutes, five minutes. But we all hanging out, we chillin'. There's there's there's a bar over there that like we're not doing no effort. Actually, actually my my car pulling up automatic because I got the Tesla and it's gonna the robot gonna take it there. So it's all automatic. But we chillin', we talking, we talking and it's social. So it might end up turning into Robots doing the work might end up allowing us to focus more on social. I think that we think we equate right right now having the job with having the social aspect. When you may not have like just because somebody's not serving the drink. doesn't mean that there's not a human gonna be involved in the scenario or won't be humans involved. It might just be that nobody has to do the task anymore. But we can all sit back and we can hang back, we could chill. Hey Rob hey, hey, you tell a robot, hey, hey, pick that up. Hey, you do this. We all chilling. Somebody that works there, they just they just managing the vibe. They they just managing they it can be it could be different. So we can redesign our experiences to be more social when we no longer have to attach the the The cause right now a server at a bar or a restaurant might be social. They might not, depending on their personality. But the main thing that you're that they're here to do though is to get the job done, which to some people that's subjective what that is. But that could change if they if they're no longer needed for the task itself and the job, specifically a social aspect. And so what you might see, what you might see is a shift of jobs being less task-based and more social-based, vibe-based. You might see that. So it's harder to figure out what what the what what what the value of that is gonna be, but you might I I guess it's a different paradigm, is what I'm getting at. That that that that's kind of forming a little bit in my head. We might be able to redesign things to where all the jobs get lost. But that doesn't mean the human aspect is lost. Brylan: Yeah. No, I think I th I think that's a really good call out on the yeah, it's just the reallocation of yeah like time and attention, moving away from the task to like the social kind of layer. But Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: yeah, I could I I I can definitely see that. What what might a grocery store of the future look like where yeah is it is it almost like a cafe and it's like they bring Rodney: We chillin'. We in there, we chillin', we in there, we chillin'. Yeah, we hanging out. Brylan: Like and you don't even see the grocery store, it's just hidden behind the walls. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we don't see nothing. We just we just chillin', man. We chillin', we hanging out, we sipping on whatever, whatever it is. Like I don't drink, so maybe it might be some tea or something, some coffee or something like that. You know, if it's early in the day. some people might let some people they they might be going for a little bit more buzz. They might want a little bit more buzz. Other people might want a little bit more of a you know, and and and by that point, this is gonna be all different types of drugs, by the way. If y'all don't, if y'all don't, if y'all don't see that coming, I don't know what to tell y'all. There's gonna be all different types of drugs. So everybody's gonna have their own little vibe going on. That's the Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: that that's like people, people are gonna be, it it I think the where the world going, it it it ain't gonna be normal, y'all. It ain't gonna Dre: Yeah. Rodney: be normal. It ain't gonna be normal. But hopefully people Dre: Yeah. Rodney: are gonna be feeling good though. People are gonna be feeling good. And and I think also too, people are gonna be looking good. I i i if if if if if all goes to plan, most people will be looking really good. If all goes to plan. Dre: I hope we preserve, I I really do hope we preserve certain experiences. Even like I was at an event yesterday for this newspaper in Austin. So I'm in Austin. There's this newspaper, I think it's called the Austin Monthly. They just recently changed the name. So I think it's called the Austin Monthly. And you know, it made me it was it was a ton of different businesses from all over Austin or hundreds of them, tons of people, vendors, food, all of that. But it made me realize cause it had like newspapers all over, like physical newspapers. Not I haven't seen a physical newspaper in a while. I remember growing up as a kid and like on Sunday there Rodney: Yeah. Dre: were people like selling newspapers on the street for like a dollar or fifty cent, however much it was. And it was like a thing to like go get a newspaper to like read the news. And it made me it made me realize the importance of preserving like print, right? As a person who has built his so his his career in software and being digital. And right and trying to move everything digital. I'm like, you what? There there is value, I think, in preserving like local media and preserving like print, that medium. I think I I still think that's important. And so just as in my mind, like that that that art form, that medium, I I think is important. I I think there's certain human experiences. Like for me going to a restaurant, like I don't want to be served by a robot. Like I I think the the restaurant industry is hospitality. So to me, the job first is social. That that to me is the job. Like that before anything else, and the food of course, right? But like before anything else, like that human connection, that is the job. Like it's not just about like going and anything else and like serving people. And I think people who approach that industry like that are not successful in it. I think the people who approach it with that mentality where the job is to socialize with the the people, you know, and I grew up in a b and working in a in a bakery, right? Dealing with people. It's a people job, you know what I'm saying? And so I I th I for me at least, I wanna preserve I w if if I could, I would preserve that as being a space where like let's just let's just lead that off. Like, yeah, we could disrupt that. We could have robots running around handing people their food. We we could put up a wall and not show people the cooks. We we could do all that. Like it maybe it's good. We could have robots serving the the drinks and mixing it. They could be faster. It'd be better. Like we could do all that. But I think that's one area where it's like, no, I appreciate pulling up to a bar and be like, yo, what's up, man? How's it going? Like, what's the score? Like, I appreciate that human, that human interaction and that. in that regard. Same as again in certain other elements like going to the grocery store and seeing people, seeing other people, seeing kids, seeing like I I I enjoy that aspect of pushing a cart and like doing those things. I don't always want to do that. You know what I'm saying? But I think have being able to have that human element. So I don't know. I so again go going back to what Bill Gates said said, I I do believe he's d from a from a directional standpoint, I think he's right in terms of like creating these nature reserves that like okay yeah we could go in and bulldoze that shit but no we're just not gonna do that. I I would yeah I I totally agree with that. Rodney: with it but but I also think that that we should trust that the designers of the future know how to design things in such a way that keep the human element in ways that you like we we should like we could because right now the things that we're talking about it just feels like we're not designers we're not true designers right so so so when somebody designs a city like so for example we we've been to New Lab right and When I when I go into the new lab and I really pay attention to how it was designed, I say, I couldn't have done this. I say I couldn't Brylan: Mm-hmm. Rodney: have done this. 'Cause it there's a certain way that that that's certain things are placed, certain way the desks are placed, certain plants are placed, the way certain of el like certain where the plugs are, when they're not are, where the cover it it it's like a it's a true design of sense so we we need we're gonna need some really, really good designers. Now now that's not to say that That there shouldn't be a preservation of certain experiences. But I I just want to say though that I'm not I'm not a designer, so I don't I don't think I have the best idea. But here's here but hypothetically, here's an example of a design that I might like. Let's imagine that we're in a strip club, okay? Let's just imagine we're in a strip club, okay? Now, if the robot brings me the food, I'm cool with that. As long as the girl like the girl if she if I get more Dre: No. Rodney: time if I get more time with the girl like I'm good. I I I no no. I want I want more time w I want more time. Brylan: With Dre: Bro. You want you want somebody you want you want a robot? Well, hold on. You want a robot pulling up with your wings or you want somebody with a fat ass, this beautiful come on, bro. Come on. What are we talking about? Rodney: If the girl if the girl on me? No, hold on, hold on. Hold on, you're not even you're not even letting me finish. No, you're not Dre: You can have both. You can have both. You can have one on you and one pulling up to you. What you talking about? Rodney: But hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: Yes, I could have both, right? But what I'm simply saying is is that, well, first of all, yeah, you could have both. And by the way, actually the the robot doesn't have to pull up with the food, by the way. If it makes the food, whoever pulls up with the food, it does it i it doesn't really matter. But if you free up the time of the stripper, that's what I care about. That's what I care about. Free free her free her time up. You know what I'm saying? So so that so that ye yeah, you know what I'm saying? Free her time up. You see what I'm saying? That's that's what I care about. So, so so if the robot, whatever the robot doing, he's doing tasks, he's cleaning dishes, whatever they're doing, cooking the food, whatever. And yeah, it's cool if something came up, something nice came up, but if I'm already occupied, unless I request this, you know, some extra. Like, it's not like it'd be different if you can't request, like, okay, I I don't want the robot to pull up. I want the girl, like, but if you don't mind that, like, but like I said, I'm already occupied because the girl, I get, I get more time. I get The way I look at it is Dre: Yes. Rodney: I'm gonna get more social time with who I really want to be with. You know what I'm saying? That's how I look at it. Dre: Maybe I'm just maybe I'm just greedy. I'm greedy. I I like options. I I just greedy. I'm greedy. I I don't like Rodney: Yeah, I mean not wrong Ash, then not wrong Dre: one I don't like one on ones. I I I I I like I I like group I I I I like options. So you know, I I want them all to fill up. Rodney: But you buy but you might but she but you might be able to request that. Just because they have the you might be able to say, Hey, you know, I y cook what what Dre: That's true, that's true. That's that's fair. That's fair. You're you're right, you're right. Rodney: would you would you mind that it was cooking the food what the robot was cooking the food, but they brought out the food. Dre: That's cool, that's cool, that's cool. I'm cool with that. Rodney: Yeah, so like we gotta think about how to design around what people want sometimes. It's like maybe you don't want the robot bringing it, but you know, th they can make the food. They Dre: I mean, that's basically what what's my man's Travis Kalanick's company, Adams, right? That's what they're trying to do, right? Like they're building robots for the kitchens, right? Like, so no, Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dre: you I mean that that that future you we talking about here, just for the listeners, is not far fetched. Like there's companies right now, and that's just one company, right? But they've been working on that for almost 10 years now, I think, at least, or for a minute, behind the scenes, Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dre: right? So they're just not coming into it. So yeah, you it's about to be crazy. It's about to be crazy. We're going into a crazy future, man. Rodney: So so go go ahead. Brylan: Now on the hold on. I w I wanna I want c yeah, 'cause I I think it's a little bit of transition, but just building off of what we've been just talking about with like robotics. yeah, I I I feel like two very interesting things that I've seen in relation to robotics, like yeah, this week I I I I went down the rabbit hole of robotics and cafes. Because you know, like in certain airports you see the robots like making the teas, Rodney: right. Brylan: the coffees, things of that nature. but what what what what what was interesting was I think it was like Stanford or something did did a study with a coffee shop in like San Fran. And what they realized was that the robots, just because the limitation of like the speed that wish they could move, they were only effective for certain types of like settings. So say for example, like a robot makes sense in like an airport or where traffic maybe, you know, a little bit slower, right? Just based off of like the threshold that it can do today. First like if it's your, you know, your cafe in the middle of, you know, downtown like working district and, you know, the peak is nine to ten, the robots weren't, you know, keeping up and actually were hurting the unit economics of the cafe, right? And so that just got me thinking about like, you know, as we're talking about these futures, yes, we can it's I think it's easy to envision robotics across the full kind of like, you know, like processes of some of these, you know, different types of businesses. And that may be the case. But I think, yeah, there probably is going to emerge just based off the nature of those businesses. you know, times where robotics may actually end end up slowing something down or hurting hurting the business and humans like just make more sense. And then the other thing too is I don't know if y'all heard of this company called Dina, but Yeah, they I think they they recently raised like hundreds of millions of dollars. But it was started he was the former vice president of engineering from Instacart. But he has sold his c he had he has started a grocery startup that was doing robotics and sold it to Instacart previously. And so now he's basically he's taking these very simple open source robot arms. and he's more so focused on like the foundational model, but like the end to end deployment. But What I found was like the use case he's been going after and he's like already doing millions in revenue in it. And it's literally he's been going after restaurants and hotels, basically their their folding task. So you know, like with you know, hotels or whatever, they gotta do the laundry. And so yeah, like I think it's like I think it was like the Marriott chain where Literally they said like you can't see these like as the public, you don't see these robots. But back in the rooms where the laundry, the the the laundry equipment and all that stuff is, you have these robots who are now doing these just simple, you know, folding tasks of like the sheets. And because of that, now these people can spend more time like, you know, focusing more on like the front house service of cleaning the rooms and things Rodney: Yes. Brylan: of that nature. So yeah, I thought that was like a very that was evidence of kind of some of that shift. Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: hopefully towards more social things. Rodney: Ideally, like yeah, there's the but yeah, I think designers are gonna be important. Yeah, designers and not the tip like the yeah, there's there's graphic designers, but like environmental design is is gonna be the thing that people need so that we can accept the future vision in such a way that doesn't feel dehumanizing. Those that that that's what Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: their job is gonna be. and even to some extent, when you look at the Terrafab designs, it kind of looks a bit artificial. It's super exciting to look at it, but this idea that Tesla robots are walking around, Tesla cyber trucks are automated, just zooming around, Teslas are zooming around, automated, it's kind of cool to some extent, but it's like to some extent, it it it's very tech tech tech tech, and it's not at least to what I've seen. Which I was excited about it, but I haven't seen maybe what it might appear like when humans are in that in that whole like how do humans fit into that whole thing. and and maybe, you know, maybe they don't have that figured out yet. But I think environmental designers is their job to design around us in such a way that we don't feel that We have lost humanity Dre: Yeah. Rodney: just because we have this new technology. because I think that the way that I think about ideas, they're not to the level of they're more about the capabilities of what these things can do, but they're not with the design aspect of the Like yeah, it's without the design aspect. But the primary goal I would hope though is that the social aspect we still have. We still have the social aspect. And that's the thing I think I would hope that they focus on. but so so there's a couple of directions. Go Brylan: Hold on, one what Rodney: ahead. Brylan: yeah, yeah, 'cause I mean we're on this too and and we don't have to spend a lot of time. but did y'all see that Anthropic rolled out the model hardware standard today? Dre: No. Brylan: So essentially, I mean, I think they probably released it just a few hours ago. But literally think of like what MCP enabled agents to be able to do in terms of connecting to like your digital tools. this is this is their way of essentially being able to enable robots to not only collect connect to like a claw agent, but connect all their tools to it as well. And so it's it's actually a really good read. because their first kind of customer that they worked with was Genintech. and they specifically were talking about, you know, the before this was possible, like how Genintec, if they wanted to incorporate agents into like their drug discovery or manufacturing processes, like what that took. And it was a lot of like custom one off tooling to be able to connect to like the physical, like, you know, equipment and things of that nature. Versus like the whole idea behind this new standard is very similar to MCP, like is just one standard that any of these tools, microscopes, et cetera, they're already working with can easily tap into. And now the agent can basically run the laboratory. And so, yeah, it spoke about some of the early like results, but I think going back to what we were talking about like last week around like cancer and you know, just how AI sort of continued to. impact like that process. yeah, this seems like, you know, a potential inflection point. And we all know what happened after they rolled out C P. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: Every single company adopted C P so yeah, this seems like there might be some Rodney: And everything everything is everything is going to get so interesting, it's unbelievable. I just don't think that like and Bill's letter is evidence of that. Yeah, it's outlining risk and and it's proposing some solutions, but the the core of it is, hey, shit is about to change and it's changing faster than he thought. And it's gonna change in these interesting ways. And I'm excited to see how this all this stuff unfolds. But but I gotta ask you guys, right? So we spent a lot of time on that topic. So now I'm thinking, okay, look, there are two topics, or I mean this this like three topics we can talk about. But I'm wondering, what do y'all what like what do y'all think is the most interesting one for us to go to? I mean, look, so I'm just gonna throw it out there, you know, to the audience, but like we'll we'll figure it out. Okay, so there's the hugging face, right? Now that's a big story. Hugging Face sold for 12.9 billion. Okay. We can we can dive into that. Or or look, this is the flock stuff, right? And that's and and and people they've been holding on to that. This has been for at least two weeks. So I don't know what direction we all wanna go now. And maybe there's one more story, I think, that we had, but Dre: Well, I guess I should we p just touch on both really quickly then, right? On the hugging face side, is there more to the story? They just got acquired for twelve point nine billion from NVIDIA, right? I don't know there's more Rodney: Yes, they did. They did. Yes. Dre: to the story than I I don't I don't I don't really know much about the deal. Like if the team is gonna be standing on to run some department within NVIDIA, is there any other headline to it other than the acquisition itself? I mean that's a win for the founders, right? And for the investors. I know Kevin Durant. There was some projections that his re his angel check is probably gonna return what sixty, seventy million dollars in his deal on a two fifty I think on a two Rodney: my goodness. That's that's a whole that's a whole like we you won two years of basketball. Dre: Yeah. On a two fifty check, I believe it was, or five hundred thousand dollar check. Something crazy. It was like a crazy, crazy angel check. Something light. so yeah, I mean that that's pretty much I mean, that's what it is, right? Like having access to those deals Rodney: Yeah, it is what it is. Dre: get you these get you these these home runs every Rodney: Jeez. Dre: now and then, man. So that's a pretty big big acquisition to the Hugging Face team. And Bryan Rodney: And all you got Dre: educated us at Hugging Face started ten years ago. I thought it was a relatively newer company, at least I say probably in the last five, six years. I didn't know they had been around for ten years. So that's a that's a grind as a founder. I mean, y'all know, running a business is no joke. So ten year journey is a you deserve a good exit like that, I would say. Rodney: I I he deserves that. He deserves that. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: he deserves that. He deserves that. the the the well shout out to Katie. I'm sure he's just gonna roll the money forward because I mean when you get those type of wins, you ain't gonna stop investing. In fact, he's Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: gonna lean he in fact, one of the things that Dre: You gotta double down. Rodney: he's gonna double out and in fact one of the things that these guys might end up doing is formerly being investors and VCs in after the careers are over. Because that I mean, what is making them as much money as basketball as this stuff? I mean it's just Dre: That's essentially what like Magic Johnson has done, right? Magic Johnson and like Charles Barkley and a Rodney: Right. Dre: lot of a lot of the older guys. So yeah, the new guys they got even more access, first of all, even more cash to deploy personally to even Rodney: Yes. They have more cash. Yeah. Yeah. Dre: deploy and then more access, right? I mean, just being in the NBA is an elite club. Like just being in that in that circle, even if you're not a star, just being around those guys, you're gonna get access to to a bunch of different opportunities. So yeah. That's yeah, that I come on with the territory. That's d as dope. Rodney: It's crazy. Brylan: The other thing I would say too, about just kind of this acquisition is I mean, I think I think it's NVIDIA making a huge bet on open AI, like open source AI. just because the reality is like what GitHub is to traditional kind of like software, just being at home for like everyone's code, and collaboration. That is what Hugging Face has been. for researchers, these labs, et cetera, anyone mostly building with like open source models. Right. And so like NVIDIA NVIDIA just went and bought that whole ecosystem. And I think the other thing too is yeah, what NVIDIA is on pace to do a hundred billion. I think they guided for like, you know, the following quarter, which is mostly gonna continue to be like their data center revenue on top of like all these crazy finance deals they've done over the past few months. That's going to drive even more revenue. Hugging face, their primary revenue driver was making it a one click button for you to be able to go from or open source model to, you know, having that live and, you know, deployed so you can integrate that into your products or your workflows. And so it's interesting to see, I think, you know, NVIDIA almost shaping up to look like SpaceX, except without the rockets, if we're gonna be honest, where You know, they're owning the chips, you know, they're they're they're playing a major role in these data center build outs, but now they're not only at the model layer, I would honestly say they're at some form of an application layer, just more so like for developers. And so it's gonna be interesting to see like as that open source ecosystem continues to grow, how much this move like allows them to, you know, become a dominant player. Dre: Man, J Jensen just continues to demonstrate, man, how savvy he is as a as a businessman. Like the I think about like the the ability to run such a large corporation is just crazy. But the way in which he has kind of done it, like kind of seeding the ecosystem, right? Like he could have approached this in a way of like, I'm just gonna kill all the competition Brylan: Facts. Dre: and just fuck everybody over. Like there's no nobody's gonna make chips ever again. Nobody's gonna Ever be in this industry again. And I mean, he was, I mean, he damn near have a monopoly, right? But that's not the approach he took. I mean, he's literally funding competitors, helping people bring helping people to bring financing into the ecosystem through his partnership with all the PE and asset managers that we talked about, I think, on the last pod. Like, I mean, he's just doing a lot of s fundamental stuff that I think in 30, 40, 50 years from now, when you look back and you read the history books. on how NVIDIA was built and some of the corporate strategy moves that he made, I think they're very unique and will be studied for a long time. Rodney: I remember S fifteen, sixteen years ago. Something like that. I was thirteen years old. 12, 13 years old and I was buying computer parts. And one of the big things was was that, you know, w what type of video card were you gonna get? Like what type of graphics card you're gonna get, right? And and you know, I knew about NVIDIA back then. I knew about NVIDIA and and and and I was a gamer, so I I I definitely wanted the one of the best I I got one of the the best cards I could afford with the money that I had, right? and then later I got a a better computer once I made more money. but an NVIDIA chip and I remember the card was so to me, to me it was so cool. It was like it's this big card that took up two slots on the for those that know like computer has like this motherboard motherboard, it took up two slots and it had this had two fans on it. And it allowed you to play these super high definition games. And back then, high definition was rare. So it was like it was it was to me, I was it was I was I was living in the future. And there's no way that I thought that that was gonna be this. Like I thought that NVIDIA was y'all make graphic chips for You know, computer graphics, gamers, et cetera. Never once did I see this angle towards AI. And I also I didn't see this acquisition from Hunking Face. I'm not surprised by it, but I also didn't see it coming. I didn't I didn't I didn't see him doing this. So Brylan: It should have been Apple. Rodney: Apple's not gonna a Apple Apple's too worried about suing open AI. They're too worried about they're too worried about trying to protect as opposed to just hey look, y'all got a trillion dollars, put money up and invest and and and let's see what you do. You know what I'm saying? There there's still people who have been waiting for updates on Siri for a decade. So I I I I I I would start there first. I will start there first. Apple is has lost their innovation from what I could tell. They're kinda like Google in that way. Except for Google got woken up because they there's a threat to their business. and what Apple's trying to do is they're trying to stop the the what they think might be a threat to their business, with open AI before it even bubbles up. but no they need they need that that Google shock 'cause Google it able Google up and Google I think is is a better company because of what OpenAI and Anthropic did. So Dre: I'm ho I'm hoping this new CEO does some great things. So I think I agree with you that Apple has been lacking in some regard, but I I I have to give them somewhat credit because I do think the switch to like Apple Silicon, that that decision that was made a long time ago was Rodney: It was clever. Dre: was the right move. I've since had multiple of the newer MacBooks and they are just so much better than the older product. Like even the new iPhones are just so much better. So they have they have they have definitely continue to innovate on the hardware side as it relates to their computers and the products that matter to them. But I do agree with you the fact that Siri is where it is, for a company of App Apple's size and for the talent and resources they have, it's embarrassing to say the least. I think the fact that Siri is where it is. It's embarrassing. Rodney: The the Everybody listening and anybody even on this panel on this Vision Pro, they need to go all in on it. Vision Pro is one of the most impressive products that I've tried in the last like five years. People don't go try it because it's so expensive that they probably think, why should I try something that's $3,500? it I know it seems weird to watch a concert in your room by yourself. But when I put the Vision Pro on, it didn't feel like I was in my room. It felt like it it I f I was it's breathtaking. I f and w when I was watching bath a basketball game in the Vision Pro, I felt like I was court side. I I felt I it it made me question my reality. It made me think like, wait, hold on. Like I'm feeling like it wasn't like every other VR that I ever tried. It wasn't like that. It they need to as best as they can pour a lot of resources into that. And s let's see how that goes. And yeah, real quick, we could talk real quick, we could touch on flock real quick. I don't think there's a lot for us to say on it because we already covered Flock, but essentially the noise of Flock hasn't died down. People are not happy about Flock, the discovery of Flock. It's not that nobody knew Flock was out there. It's just that most people didn't know. Because of course, they can't get installed without somebody's permission. So, like, it required money and and approvals and all different types of things. It's just that what has happened now is that it's turned into essentially it's become politicized. And so now the CEO. is in a weird fight with with politicians but then also with the public because what's happened is is that a product that was meant to protect and secure and help people has been because of the way that it was deployed it has been turned into it has been turned into It has been turned into It has been turned into a product where it's it's being framed as something that's meant to watch your every step. Something that's meant to and and not without reason. Like there are there's been officers that have been discovered looking up, you know, exes and wives and just weird stuff that they shouldn't do. and Vlog has addressed it by adding new tools to make sure that they can track all these things so that These people can get caught and or they cannot even access certain information. There's been some videos servicing of police officers pop pulling up to people saying, Hey, we got you on camera. We know for a fact it's you and they were wrong. So then so when you see those things start circulating, it makes people say, No, we don't want those. We don't want those in our community. We don't want those. And then politicians are in a place where they don't want to support Flock because they don't want to seem like They're the bad guys. They don't want to see like they're the bad guys. And then you got Bernie Sanders, which at this point I'm getting tired of Bernie because of just the way that he he just pops out. He never really pops out with anything productive. He's always in a position where he's trying to stop something. Like, I don't care what it is. It could be AI, it could be block, whatever it is. He's always trying to prevent something. So He's against Flock, which doesn't mean much, but he is a loud voice that people listen to. And so the thing I wanted to say about Flock, and maybe Drake, you you you might have some comments, but what I wanted to say about Flock is that I think that They're in a tough spot because I think they rolled out without the without the public's approval. They went and got approval from the people who had the power to approve. Home homeowners, associations, police departments, etc. And now that there's awareness of being watched, the public is not necessarily happy with that. So some people are rolling back decisions. That they may. Some cities are rolling back, but which is I think is disingenuous. It may be a bit performative because it's it's I mean, you signed up for the contracts, you obviously were interested. And now that it's more of a conversation, you're kind of rolling it back in in in a weird in a in a way. but I would say that Not that I don't think is justified because I don't believe in surveillance. One of my main things that I worked on was encryption and privacy, so I believe in that. But I think that this this place of the this I think that we gotta think about the alternative, which is that the alternative is okay, so You can either have Flock and try to figure out how to make Flock work within reasonable privacy concerns. Or you can wait. Until people realize that this city doesn't have flock cameras and therefore they're more vulnerable. Dre: Mm. Rodney: And I don't think people see that that's the choice that they're making. I think they're thinking they're making a choice between Am I being surveilled or not, as opposed to There are and we talk about all these changes in in AI and the economy, et cetera. And I think people might forget that maybe that might be a bumpy road. So that's the th Dre: Yeah. Rodney: that's that's what I'm seeing. Dre: Yeah. I don't know, man. Flock is a is a touchy is a touchy one. I I mean, it definitely has its benefits. I solely understand the backlash that it gets. And honestly, the only thing I would say is if citizens really don't want it, then they should take it to the voting booth and they should vote it out. I mean that's it's really that simple, right? Like the collective voice is more powerful than than the people that Flock went to to get the approval. Right. And so if communities Rodney: Yes, for sure. For sure. Dre: decide they don't want this, then, you know, Flock has a problem. And so I I I do think people I think people should, you know, vote with, you know, vote on that decision and and and collectively come together. And some cities have already started to do that. Some cities have rolled back their partnership, canceled their contracts with Flock because they don't like the data privacy policies. They don't, you know, the citizens don't like it. And so in certain cities Flock hasn't been able to to to to necessarily be successful in. so again, that is happening right now. So I think citizens should continue to look at that as a as a potential blueprint for their city if they're unsatisfied or dissatisfied what what Flock in their cities are doing, or in the case of a community if it's a HOA, right? So yeah, I I think that's the best way to combat that. you know, I listened to the the CEO of Flock and he seems like a genuine guy, to be honest. he he seems like a a pretty genuine guy and it and it seemed like Flock started with a good premise, right? It started with a a good notion. the company has obviously grown since then and and started to take a take a you know, on take on a new life as especially as it bec has become more public, right? 'Cause I don't think many people knew about Flock a couple of months ago or even a year ago. Rodney: Right. Dre: So yeah, I mean yeah, I I think again if people are dissatisfied, go and vote, change it, remove it. That's already happening. and then again, I I hope that Flock is I I hope that they're doing the right things from a a corporate governance standpoint and building the right capabilities so that their software is not as easy to misuse as some of the cases that we've seen where you had officers that were misusing it and stalking people and Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dre: All type of all type of crazy stuff. And so I think some of that can be solved at the product level. Some of that is just polic Rodney: It could have. Dre: it's just policy within the institutions that adopt it. And some of that is probab this poor product decisions that they've probably made. So I I hope that they Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Dre: change that. and again, I think when you're when you're building a rocket ship, I think it's easy from the outside to criticize the decisions that the company is making. But I know just as well as you know, have been a part of a rocket ship that it's chaotic and there's a lot of decisions being made and there are a lot of choices being made and you know that in in that environment you're not gonna always make the right choice. And so you're not even really optimizing for perfection, right? Like you're trying to iterate, right? And the whole practice of iteration is knowing that you're gonna make mistakes and there's gonna be some version that you're gonna put out that's not gonna be the best version that you ultimately subscribe to to to b eventually get to. And so I think this is, you know, some of the mistakes that they've made are just part of the the the the growing pains of scaling, taking on V C capital, having that push to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow at all costs. And you make a certain set of trade offs. And and now they're starting to deal with that and and realize the power of their scale. And so again, I hope that they you know, I I I trust that the CEO will I hope he does the right thing and the rest of the management team does the right thing. Rodney: Yeah, we we can Well the last thing I'll say on that is that pretty much I'm a hundred percent with that. At the end of the day, people don't want flock. They shouldn't have it. And they shouldn't be able to vote it out. I don't think that's gonna be the best thing in the long run, in my opinion. But it's not really about that per se. It's about what people want to be able to in their communities. I do think though it's going to backfire 'cause of of where I think the world is going. I think that you're gonna want people to think that they're being watched. You're Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: gonna want people to think, yeah, I can't get away with nothing nothing over here. Dre: I think the wealthy really gonna want it in their neighborhoods. Like, Rodney: Yes. Dre: cause the wealth gap has already grown. People are angry. People people are upset at how much wealth is Rodney: Yes, yes. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Dre: being created. It's only gone, it's only accelerating. I mean, we talked about Nvidia's earnings. Rodney: That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Dre: As the earnings go up, as that stock goes up and to the right, there are thousands of employees that are making enormous wealth, you know, outside Rodney: That's what I'm saying. Yes. Yes. Dre: of just the executive team. So Rodney: Yeah. Dre: There there's a lot of people who are who are getting who are getting wealthy and a lot of people are not happy with that. And so I think people who are wealthy, you and live in a wealthy neighborhood, you gonna pay. You gonna pay, yeah, you go paid. Rodney: Yes. You want that to be watched. Yeah. You y yeah, you you you want that to be watched. They're like I I I think it's gonna I just think that the wealthy people are gonna be the ones that understand this sooner because they're already under threat. So they they they they Dre: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Rodney: already they they already know. I don't think the common Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: person is aware of ca I think it's going to start with just an attack on wealthy. But I I think it I think it's gonna be a tr basically a a place I think that crime is gonna go up in general. especially if they start f figuring it out, we can't get none, we can't get away with nothing in the wealthy neighborhood. You know what Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I'm saying? Once it once they start feeling like that, it's like the crime not gonna stop. It's just gonna go to wherever it's the most vulnerable. So I don't think it's a good idea. and and and you're right about the rockership thing. I think what likely happened is that There was probably some people internally that had some concerns. But what might have happened is that the certain people are more persuasive. And some and s and also certain people have more authority. So sometimes it I don't believe that some of these things that we're seeing, nobody thought about internally. I just think that sometimes certain I certain ideas Dre: Yeah. Of course. Rodney: went up went other went over others and everything's Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: moving fast and you gotta make calls. And and and cause I think yeah, like some of these things, I'm like, yeah, y'all trusted, yeah, yeah, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, y'all, y'all trusted. Yeah, like yeah. Dre: Yeah, they they definitely talked about it internally for sure. For sure. They they saw Uber, they saw Bird, they they they saw. Rodney: Yeah, yeah, y'all, y'all, y'all trusted these guys a little bit too much, and now y'all getting the backlash. Like y'all getting in trouble for what the police are doing with y'all like like it it it's they did it. Y'all didn't do that, but it's like it's but it's falling on y'all because you didn't prevent them from doing. You know, you what I'm saying? You didn't stop them. So it's like y and they may they may not have I they didn't for foresee these last two weeks. I'll put it like that. Dre: No, they they they they they've been getting they they've been getting hit hard. I mean, again the CEOs are coming out doing interviews, they really tryna tryna clean it up. it's it's tough. Rodney: You got you got huge politicians. You got politicians from the the largest ones to governors to people who have run for the presidents under the United States saying, nah, we don't want flaw. That like that you you went from nobody even knowing that you were even existing and you're monitoring everything to like like you basically they don't control their own narrative. They're fighting a narrative. They don't control their own narrative. And that's the mistake that that that it's just I don't know. Hopefully they've recover it. but but yeah, that's so that that that that's the that's the last thing I had on my thing. But I think the Flock Dre: Yeah, yeah. Rodney: story is very interesting and I want people to follow it. But I just want people to know though that that I think like I get it, you don't want people to watch, you don't want surveillance. I'm all for that. I believe in encryption, I believe in privacy, etcetera. But I'm mostly about privacy in your private items, your car, your house, the things that your storage units, et cetera, warrants, et cetera. I'm not necessarily about privacy when you step outside your house and you're in public. But I understand people's concerns. Dre: Mm-hmm. Yep. Totally agree, man. Yeah, this was a good one, bro. Catch y'all on the next one. Rodney: Yeah. All right. Catch yeah.