Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / How Studios Cast Dancers In Competitive Dance Routines

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How Studios Cast Dancers In Competitive Dance Routines · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: The end of the dance season is coming soon, and now it's time to start thinking about next year.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Your studio may already be casting competition routines for 2024, and you might be wondering why you or your dancer was chosen or not chosen for certain dancers.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Today on Making the Impact, we have two wonderful guests joining us to help you understand all that goes into the process of casting dancers.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Hey Courtney, are you excited about this episode?
0:58
SPEAKER_00: I am excited.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: This is the fun one that we're talking about today about casting dancers for competition routines.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think everybody's gonna really enjoy our guests today and their perspectives.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: We've got two amazing people who are joining us, so I'm super excited to dive in.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes, me too.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: This is a great one, especially we wanted to put this towards the end of the season because now that competition season is almost over, some studios are already getting ready and prepared for next season.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And those auditions are going to be coming up very soon, maybe right after your recital, to determine your placement and your casting needs for the upcoming season, for season 2024.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow, can't believe we're already talking about that.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So we want to shed some light on how studios really determine the casting for all of the dancers in each competition routine today on the podcast.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: But before we dive into our episode today, I want to tell you about our sponsor, Apollo Performance Wear.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: We need to talk about something serious.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Dancer injury rates are staggering.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Dancers have twice the injury rate from the knee down as football players.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: That is wild and crazy.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: The majority are due to overuse and inflammation injuries.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: If you spent as many years as I did as a dancer, I'm sure you all know it can produce long-term chronic aches, pains, and injuries because of the nature of dance, lack of rest, and time to hours of class, competitions, conventions, and intensives.
2:22
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2:28
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2:30
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3:08
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3:12
SPEAKER_01: And we are as always excited to continue to announce some of our winners for our Making the Impact Judges Choice Awards this year in 2023.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: At all of your IDA affiliated competitions that have at least one IDA judge, there will be one routine selected to receive the Making the Impact Award.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: This is a collaborative award between all of your IDA judges that awards a dance or a dancer or a routine that really stuck with the judges throughout the entire weekend, something they couldn't stop talking about, couldn't stop thinking about.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: And winners receive a physical award at the event.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And part of the prize is you get a shout-out on the podcast.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: So we have a few that we would love to award right now.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: So, from Spirit of Dance Awards event in Boxboro, Massachusetts, congrats to Glastonbury Dance Center from Glastonbury, Connecticut for their large group Coffee Break.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: From the Streets Convention event in Beaumont, Texas, congrats to Mecca Dance Project from Porter, Texas for their small group Shout.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: From True Dance Challenges event in Allentown, Pennsylvania, congrats to Emerge Dance and Twirl from Fleetwood, Pennsylvania for their duo trio Leave a Light On.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: From Diva Dance Competitions event in Wilmington, Delaware.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Congrats to Bruno Noveas from Stage Stars Dance and Acro from Hawkinson, Delaware, for their solo, Don't Rain on My Parade.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And from D.Va Dance Competitions event in Hebron, Connecticut, congrats to Moorlock School of Dance from East Hartford, Connecticut for their small group, Primordial Sororitas.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Congrats to all of our recent Making the Impact winners.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: And if you are a lucky winner, you will hear your studio shout-out on the podcast on a future episode.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Alright, Dance World, we are here to talk about how studios cast their dancers for specific routines in the competitive world.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: I think this is such an interesting topic, and I can't wait to hear all about it.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: We have a studio owner perspective joining us today on this discussion.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: She's a brand new guest to the podcast and has been a studio owner for over 30 years of Forte Dance Center in Illinois.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to welcome Pam Simpson to the podcast.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Pam.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we're so excited to have you and thank you for joining us today.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't wait to hear about the process and learn more about how your studio does it and things that you've learned throughout the years and the evolution of how you've had to adjust from, you know, starting 30 years ago and what it's transitioned into now when it comes to casting dancers.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: So this is a fun, hot topic.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: And uh let's jump in.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: But before we do, if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit more about you, where you grew up, where you received your training, and uh how you got into studio ownership.
5:45
SPEAKER_05: Sure.
5:46
SPEAKER_05: So I am from Morris, Illinois.
5:48
SPEAKER_05: I grew up here and I danced in our town and also went to Chicago to take classes of training.
5:53
SPEAKER_05: I have my bachelor's in dance performance and commercial studio operations from Illinois State University.
5:59
SPEAKER_05: I've had my studio now, this is our 30th season.
6:02
SPEAKER_05: I started my competitive program right away, so we have that.
6:05
SPEAKER_05: I've judged dance competitions, several of them, for about a little over 30 years.
6:10
SPEAKER_05: And um, like Courtney said, many of our students have won many awards, a choreography awards, and dancers that have gone off and done the professional thing also from our program in our tiny little town of Morris of 12,000 people.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
6:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: But that's great to hear that your your students have been able to go on and dance professionally.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: I think that's always like a dream that every studio owner has is to have some dancers go on into the professional career, and that's really exciting that you're offering that type of training to allow your dancers to jump right on in.
6:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it actually it's like such a rewarding job to do to train the dancers from like little toddlers all the way through high school and then see them go follow their dreams and make it happen.
6:53
SPEAKER_05: You know, and we know that in the dance studio industry, that's a very small percentage of people that actually go do the career.
6:59
SPEAKER_05: So I feel lucky that we've had several people do it, and especially in being in like a small community that we're just really proud of the training and the community that we have here.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: How far outside of Chicago are you?
7:10
SPEAKER_05: We're about an hour southwest of Chicago.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: So still a reasonable commute to get in for classes and training and stuff sometimes.
7:17
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
7:18
SPEAKER_05: And we have a studio in Morris here in Illinois, and then also one in Shanahan.
7:22
SPEAKER_05: So we have two different locations that we teach at, two buildings.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: And does your competitive program run out of both?
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Are they separate teams or do you do you keep one in one place?
7:31
SPEAKER_05: We run both teams in both locations.
7:34
SPEAKER_05: And then on Saturdays, they have the option to come together in one studio and work as a big team.
7:38
SPEAKER_05: So students can choose to do some extra stuff and be together.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, cool.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: That'll that'll be a really interesting topic too within this casting conversation because that just it's almost feels like it's a little more work for the kids to have to come together and say, Oh, well, I want to do this, but that means I have to go over here.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was cast in this dance, but that's at studio A.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: All right.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited to welcome a guest who literally just jumped in to this episode with one minute's notice.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited about that.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: And I knew, I knew he would say yes in the moment that I was frantic and said, we need an extra guest.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Glenn, do you want to join us?
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Yes, sure.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Sign me up.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: What's give me, send me the link.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: I'll be here to chat dance with you.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: I have had the pleasure of working with him at Revel Dance Convention.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: He is an experienced teacher, guest choreographer, and I'm excited to hear his perspective on this topic.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to welcome Glenn Minardi to the podcast.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Glenn.
8:36
SPEAKER_04: Hey guys, how's it going, Courtney?
8:38
SPEAKER_04: Yay! Just excited to be here this morning.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: Uh I was just sipping my coffee and got the text.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, last minute replacement life.
8:46
SPEAKER_04: Like I said, if you if you stay ready, you don't gotta get ready.
8:50
SPEAKER_04: You know, I'll be I'll be the swing today, you know, whatever.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: You are, you are the swing today.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And I'm sorry, such a frantic uh, you know, hey, be on the podcast, but I am very grateful for you to be here.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: And I know you're going to contribute so much to this chat today about casting dancers.
9:07
SPEAKER_04: I love dancing, you know that, so I'll talk about it all day long.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, if you wouldn't mind sharing with the world a little bit more about you, where you grew up, where you received your training, what your career has looked like, and what you're working on now.
9:20
SPEAKER_04: Okay, just quick, I can do that.
9:22
SPEAKER_04: Um originally from a little town called Bayula Battery, Alabama.
9:25
SPEAKER_04: Uh it's down in south of Mobile, down by Gulf Shores and Dolphin Island.
9:28
SPEAKER_04: It's um where Bubba Gump's from in the movie Forest Gump.
9:31
SPEAKER_04: It's a real place.
9:32
SPEAKER_04: I grew up dancing there.
9:34
SPEAKER_04: My dance teacher uh started her studio right out of high school.
9:37
SPEAKER_04: I think I attended like the third year she was open.
9:40
SPEAKER_04: I was one of the first boys to take class.
9:42
SPEAKER_04: Uh, I was just taking acro and she taught us a little jazz combination.
9:46
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, she's like, you pick that up fast, you should come to class.
9:49
SPEAKER_04: I did, and I fell in love, and the rest is history.
9:52
SPEAKER_04: I've worked on cruise ships for celebrity cruises.
9:55
SPEAKER_04: I worked at Disney and the Animal Kingdom.
9:58
SPEAKER_04: I was there on Open and Day.
10:00
SPEAKER_04: Actually, I was working at the Jungle Book on Open and Day, which is now the Nemo show, I think.
10:04
SPEAKER_04: I was transferred to the Indiana John Stunt show there.
10:07
SPEAKER_04: I worked there for uh a year.
10:09
SPEAKER_04: And then um I went back to college, got my degree in dance from the University of Southern Mississippi, um, moved to New York City and was dancing, working, taking class, working at Apple, working at Maxie's in Times Square to make ends meet.
10:22
SPEAKER_04: And my mother passed away and I moved home.
10:24
SPEAKER_04: And I was coaxed into teaching dance, something I never wanted to do, and now it's literally all I do other than work for Rebel as uh a stage manager, runner, catch-all, whatever.
10:37
SPEAKER_04: I have been choreographing and teaching dance for studios since 2004.
10:41
SPEAKER_04: I have been I've worked for the smallest of studios and I've worked for the largest of studios at literally 300 kids on team.
10:48
SPEAKER_04: I create 50 to 70 dances a year for studios and I'm pushing a thousand in my career as a guest choreographer.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: So I've been been doing I've been traveling since 07 pretty steadily, doing six sixty or so routines a year.
11:03
SPEAKER_04: So that's my history.
11:04
SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm a little bit of everything.
11:05
SPEAKER_04: I danced at Kelly's Dance Academy in Mobile, Alabama, and Mobile Ballet in Mobile, Alabama, and uh trained at American Dance Festival at Duke and Bass Dance Festival in Maine as well, before um stepping out and trying to become the artist that I am today as a creator and choreographer.
11:21
SPEAKER_04: That's me.
11:22
SPEAKER_04: Short version.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, amazing.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: I love hearing all of your credits and your training backgrounds, and I love that teaching fell into your lap.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: And wow, I can't believe that you've literally counted a thousand dance root that you've choreographed that many routines in your life.
11:37
SPEAKER_04: Well, a few years ago I was redoing my bio because I just, you know, kind of redo it.
11:41
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, you know, I'm an experienced choreographer.
11:43
SPEAKER_04: How can I show that?
11:43
SPEAKER_04: And I started thinking, I was like, well, I did 73, 74 dances last year just for comp and and 11 for recital.
11:51
SPEAKER_04: So that's 80.
11:52
SPEAKER_04: And I've been doing it since do the math.
11:53
SPEAKER_04: It's a thousand bucks.
11:55
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is amazing.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm so impressed.
12:00
SPEAKER_04: I love, I love it, love it, love it.
12:01
SPEAKER_04: It's my it's it's it's my everyday.
12:04
SPEAKER_04: I I really wake up thinking about dance and go to bed thinking about dance.
12:07
SPEAKER_04: It really, really is my life.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm so happy to have you here joining us and chatting dance today.
12:13
SPEAKER_04: I really appreciate joining you, Pam, and and Leslie and Courtney.
12:16
SPEAKER_04: Thank you all so much for having me.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be a great conversation.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to get into it because we've got a really cool topic and it's how studios cast dancers.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: I think that can feel very um mysterious to some people, you know, if you don't really know, well, why is my kid in this dance and why is she not in that dance?
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And how did that even happen unless you're doing something like having an audition?
12:39
SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to know, Pam, do y'all for your competitive team, do you do auditions generally just for the team?
12:45
SPEAKER_01: And then do you do them in a smaller way for each routine, or how do you go about casting your dances?
12:51
SPEAKER_05: So, what we do now for accompany dancers is we do a placement class to put them in the the group that they belong in.
12:57
SPEAKER_05: Mostly now we do it all by age for their regular classes.
13:01
SPEAKER_05: And so they all do ballet tap and jazz together as their group, and then we audition what we call secondary dances, which would be hip hop, lyrical, musical theater, modern that they can do an additional dance.
13:13
SPEAKER_05: And we typically do those mostly by age now.
13:16
SPEAKER_05: In the past, when I first started, it was all about the level and the skill the kids could dance.
13:20
SPEAKER_05: And now I've learned a lot, and now mostly it's by age, and that it works much better for us at our studio.
13:27
SPEAKER_05: And then we do some specialized dances where we hand pick kids, but it's basically like they select the commitment level, and then by their commitment level, we cast them in the dance that fits them the best.
13:39
SPEAKER_05: So we can hand select by a commitment level.
13:42
SPEAKER_05: So if they want to be only in two routines, we know what those are.
13:45
SPEAKER_05: If they're gonna say, I can do 10 routines, then they get hand selected into those routines that fit them the best out of the audition.
13:52
SPEAKER_05: So that seems to work best for us, uh, less drama and gives everybody an opportunity.
13:57
SPEAKER_05: But then also for those kids that are in the group for their age as they grow in ballet tap and jazz, they get maybe get into the company at age seven or eight, and then they stay with that same group and they move together.
14:09
SPEAKER_05: And you see that bond of friendship happen, and then they actually start dancing better because they're friends and they make it through high school because they want to stay with their group.
14:18
SPEAKER_05: So for us, we've seen that success be that way for us to keep them in their age bracket and then only hand select for specific things, but based on their commitment.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: That sounds like an interesting um logistical.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have to have a teacher meeting at the beginning of the season?
14:36
SPEAKER_01: And then you're all like, you have like your spreadsheet of who's doing what dance and who they need, and it sounds like a lot of like a puzzle.
14:43
SPEAKER_05: It is a little bit like a puzzle, but it's pretty smooth now because you've done it for a long time.
14:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:48
SPEAKER_05: I do send the families a Google form where they select their commitment level for the season, and then they also select their favorite styles and they rate it one to five.
15:00
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
15:01
SPEAKER_05: Their favorite style.
15:02
SPEAKER_05: So when they come into the audition, we already know like they can do two extra routines.
15:06
SPEAKER_05: These are their favorite styles.
15:07
SPEAKER_05: So as we're watching, we're watching that child.
15:09
SPEAKER_05: Like she can do two extra things.
15:10
SPEAKER_05: She's auditioning for five.
15:12
SPEAKER_05: We're selecting the ones that are best for her.
15:14
SPEAKER_05: And then actually, tomorrow is our meeting to decide the all our casting for next year.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: So wow.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: Perfect timing.
15:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like a yeah, perfect timing.
15:22
SPEAKER_05: We do about a 90-minute meeting with the team, and they've already done the audition, so we already know, and um, we'll select all of that tomorrow.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what about you, Glenn?
15:31
SPEAKER_00: And what's your experience been through the years?
15:33
SPEAKER_04: Uh I mean, I've I've seen it done so many ways.
15:36
SPEAKER_04: As far as when I worked at a studio, the studio I worked at the longest time in New Orleans and in Covington area.
15:43
SPEAKER_04: She cast a company and she did it by by age level.
15:47
SPEAKER_04: Um, they would have like four teams.
15:49
SPEAKER_04: And then each team had to do a large group or what our whatever the whole team dance, and then they had a production dance.
15:56
SPEAKER_04: So they were required to do two routines, and then they could say how many extra routines they wanted.
16:01
SPEAKER_04: Um, as far as me casting those dancers, I never really got to cast it.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: The owner was just like, here, here's here's who you're teaching, here's you in your routines.
16:09
SPEAKER_04: Right.
16:10
SPEAKER_04: I I had another studio where I just would say, This is the kids I want to use after uh auditions, we would all debate, you know, a little less organized than what Pam uh said.
16:20
SPEAKER_04: But then I've also been a part of the studio, like I said, that had 300 kids and it was a spreadsheet.
16:25
SPEAKER_04: And uh we all sat around the owner's table's house on Sunday morning after auditions for about eight hours and went kid for kid.
16:33
SPEAKER_04: Okay, she did this last year, she did that, she was great in this, she needs this, she wants that, all that.
16:38
SPEAKER_04: And it was literally like an eight-hour like royal rumble in there.
16:43
SPEAKER_04: Um but as a guest artist, it's a little different.
16:46
SPEAKER_04: Um, I have studios I've been teaching some for 10 years straight, 11 years straight now.
16:51
SPEAKER_04: And I just trust that they're gonna give me the dancers that that that you know will benefit from from working with me.
16:57
SPEAKER_04: Some give me like the whole group and then a small group.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: Um if it's a newer studio I'm not too familiar with, or say it's a year where they had a lot of turnover.
17:06
SPEAKER_04: I like doing a class first, say like on Friday night, come in and do a class with the kids I'm teaching.
17:11
SPEAKER_04: Then we'll go to dinner and talk and figure it out and they send out a cast list.
17:14
SPEAKER_04: You know, that's that's kind of um a general way to do it.
17:18
SPEAKER_04: But for the most part, it's studio specific, the size of the group, the level of the dancers.
17:22
SPEAKER_04: Do you have a large group of older kids?
17:24
SPEAKER_04: Do you have a large group of younger kids?
17:26
SPEAKER_04: Is there any in-between kids?
17:27
SPEAKER_04: Is there level differences?
17:29
SPEAKER_04: It it really depends on so many factors whenever you're casting for sure, you know.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you brought up the point of, especially from your perspective of being more of a guest artist, because I I've experienced that as well.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: I've never had the opportunity to work full-time at a dance studio, so I can't bring that perspective, but I primarily do guest work and I do find it interesting, and we've talked about this on our guest choreography episode, which I think was in season two off the top of my head, or maybe season three, but most of the time, whenever I go to a studio, I never really have the option to select who's in my dance.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm contacted by a studio and they say, We want to hire you for a guest choreography.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And I go, Okay, and they already know in their head which dancers are gonna be in the dance, what size the what group they want, uh, small group, large group, whatever, what age division, what love.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Like they give me the specs and then I'm supposed to deliver.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And that makes it even more challenging because obviously, like from the studio owner side of things with Pam and your regular studio teachers that teach at the studio, they work with the dancers all year.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: They know their strengths, they know their weaknesses.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: Then here I come in as a guest choreographer, I know nothing about your studio.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I've taught them one class before, and it's not like even within that class, I'm able to like, well, these are the dancers that got my style the best.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: I want to hand select them.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, nope, sorry.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: You actually have to work with all of these dancers, and you gotta kind of figure out like how to blend the like some of the stronger dancers and the weaker ones, whatever it might be, to make the dance cohesive with what you're presented.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's definitely like the struggle across the board.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Not struggle, but like it's a hard job to be a choreographer.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a challenge for sure.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: When on our end, like we might not always be like handed the the best casting that we would have wanted for this group.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: And our job is to make this cohesive and seamless, and you know, that's what a choreographer does.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Everybody look their best.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Exactly now.
19:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's that's the end goal, is is especially when you're doing guest choreography.
19:26
SPEAKER_04: I I when I first really started doing it full time, I would be so hard on myself when I'd leave.
19:31
SPEAKER_04: I'd be like, Man, that's gonna be garbage.
19:32
SPEAKER_04: They're gonna have to change it all.
19:34
SPEAKER_04: And I I just finally started allowing myself to settle in what I trust the studio owners and the teachers and the people that I was leaving the work with to make it work and to make it what it was supposed to be.
19:47
SPEAKER_04: I make my intentions and my you know, wishes clear, and then they bring it to life.
19:52
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, if you're traveling as a guest choreographer, that's really what you have to do.
19:55
SPEAKER_04: Because after all, they're they're they're hiring you to create something for them specific for a reason.
20:00
SPEAKER_04: So if they do hand you the dancers, you just go with it.
20:02
SPEAKER_04: That's what you you know, they're they're hiring you for that reason.
20:04
SPEAKER_04: It's you don't go to McDonald's and ask for, you know, a whopper, you know.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, Pam, Pam, do you um hire any outside choreographers for your studio?
20:15
SPEAKER_05: Mostly we don't.
20:16
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
20:16
SPEAKER_05: Now, every couple of years we'll hire someone to come in as like a treat for the kids.
20:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
20:20
SPEAKER_05: Really for our team, we have a really long-term team that's here that does a really nice job.
20:26
SPEAKER_05: So um every couple years we'll bring in a guest teacher, and we're similar to you, where it's basically this is the group that we have for you to teach.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
20:36
SPEAKER_05: And usually, like Len said, they'll have a class beforehand so they at least get to know the kids.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:42
SPEAKER_05: In the past, when I've done it, if I haven't had them teach a class, they typically will do the formations or set the dance in a way that isn't the best for us.
20:50
SPEAKER_05: So they'll pick the kid that maybe was really great in that minute, but then they're not the ones that actually can perform or will practice or show up on time.
20:58
SPEAKER_05: So I think doing the class ahead of time if you do the guests is a key component of that.
21:05
SPEAKER_05: But we have had them over the years, but typically our teachers just do our our work.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: And then to have that, I Glenn, you were saying, you know, you have your class and then you go to Applebee's or wherever and have your meeting and you talk about, well, what about this kid?
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's important to make sure the guest choreographers always have that open line of communication with the studio owner, because the studio owner can say, well, you know, Sarah, Sarah is great in class.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Sarah falls apart on the stage.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: She I I know you you you think you want her in the front row, but like Sarah might need to be in the second row because that's where I trust her to be, you know.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: So I think I think that communication is super important.
21:38
SPEAKER_04: I always like to end my weekends or you know, rehearsals on guest choreography trips by telling the kids now that I leave, this is your dance.
21:47
SPEAKER_04: And XXX is in charge.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: And what she says goes, I trust her or them to make the choices that'll be right for you guys to set you up for success.
21:58
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's also important.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: a guest choreographer to to know that once it's in their hands, do you trust the people you're working for to make your work and present it in the best way or do you not?
22:08
SPEAKER_04: And then you know then that goes into the choosing whether you go to places or not.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: It's true.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: But it is it is it is important to to let the the kids know I think that that yes it is my creation but now it is your babe.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: You guys have to bring in life no matter what that means.
22:25
SPEAKER_04: Susie Q's got to go to the back row uh because she just can't hang.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Like I actually feel like as a guest choreographer I have like a love hate with guest choreography because I personally feel like the studio knows the dancers the best and I think that they will be able to present them in the best way better than I could as an outsider.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And unless the talent and the level of dancers and the training is so advanced that everyone's kind of on the same playing field and they like it's not even about like have you taken my class or have you have you do you know my style?
23:03
SPEAKER_00: It's that if if the foundational training is there and they're hard workers and they pay attention and they learn quick and all those things that you have to know when you're getting thrown into a quick 10 hour rehearsal to set a piece.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like sometimes there's other things on my end that are preventing me from being able to deliver the quality because I don't know your dancers that well.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't I shouldn't have to ask them who has who's a great turner who's a who who can I feature for this who because that's your teachers know those things about you.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: They're going to be able to sculpt a a higher caliber dance personally I think I think that if if I come in like you said Pam it's like a treat.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like a special bonus like oh this will be fun.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: This will be different you'll get to like learn what it's like to like work in a fast-paced environment and learn from someone that's not your normal teachers.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: I think those are the benefits of guest choreography over well we need to hire this choreographer because we want to win first place because our choreography isn't cutting in anymore and blah blah blah.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: It's like no actually your choreography is great at your studio because you have the the strength of knowing your dancers better than that guest.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I think that's what really sets it apart when it comes to guest choreography is, you know, I'm I'm spending half the time just learning the dance about the dancers and and not even actually choreographing the material on a limited time as it is.
24:17
SPEAKER_04: So I I have a love hating you say that it's interesting you say that I had that conversation actually like a week and a half two weeks ago with my dance teacher um I go in and do several dances for her studio and and dancers every year and solos and she's having sort of a older kid turnover this year.
24:33
SPEAKER_04: She's got a really young team.
24:34
SPEAKER_04: She's got some all of her older girls are leaving pretty much they're graduating but I told her I said it's okay if I'm not there six days this year and I don't have seven solos.
24:44
SPEAKER_04: Those kids aren't ready for a solo with me.
24:47
SPEAKER_04: They need they're not ready to pick up an advanced level solo in four hours five hours.
24:53
SPEAKER_04: It's not it's not their time yet and yeah maybe that those five or six kids you want them in my in a small group but I think they're doing fine me just doing their line for them.
25:02
SPEAKER_04: They're getting Glenn for for six hours that weekend I do their line and that's that's good.
25:07
SPEAKER_04: Not everybody needs to be in that guest artist PC.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Well that's I you bring up such a good point and I'm really curious Pam you know the the statement of not everybody needs to be in all these pieces y'all y'all you know you have your levels and your age groups that dance together.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: Those are your solid core you know ballet tap jazz those are your dances period no matter what do you ever have to like pull back on the offerings for people that just you some of the kids that maybe don't don't necessarily need to be in 17 dances but want to be how do you how do you handle that?
25:39
SPEAKER_05: Yeah I we do have to do that because sometimes there's the kid that wants to do the it's unlimited.
25:44
SPEAKER_05: They can do it mom says here you go I'll pay for it.
25:47
SPEAKER_05: And then they come to dance and they actually are not able to do it.
25:52
SPEAKER_05: So it's a tough conversation but it's just like what we talked about earlier about communication.
25:56
SPEAKER_05: So it's a trust thing with the parent to make sure they trust us with their child.
26:00
SPEAKER_05: And then we just have a kick conversation like this is what she's ready to do right now.
26:04
SPEAKER_05: We're gonna have her do these things sometimes we'll let her take the extra class but not be in the dance as like an alternate or something like that.
26:12
SPEAKER_05: But sometimes it's just that tough conversation if she's not really ready to commit to seven routines.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:18
SPEAKER_05: We're gonna stick with three routines and make sure she's got those really solid and we'll allow her to take this extra class.
26:23
SPEAKER_05: Right.
26:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah but it's it's being confident enough to have that conversation with the parents in a kind way so they understand but you can't just let everybody in every routine.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:36
SPEAKER_05: Because then you just have mediocre things.
26:38
SPEAKER_04: Exactly right that and that and kids get lost in the fold that way I feel like because say she wants that six dance and you know she can only do five but you give her that six and it's a large group and she ends up off the stage half the time anyway.
26:52
SPEAKER_04: Right.
26:52
SPEAKER_04: Right because the choreographer she didn't belong in the group to begin with you know so a situation like that then you just create more problems for yourself.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to talk about alternates and that's a part of casting as well and I don't know how many studios really do that like officially and Pam do you mentioned it do you do you officially cast alternates or or understudies and how do you go about like I guess honestly from the business perspective are you charging them for that?
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Are you charging them for a costume and they might never get to dance?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
27:21
SPEAKER_05: So the way we do the alternates is they do get charged for the class and the choreography like the rehearsal time but they don't buy a costume.
27:29
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
27:29
SPEAKER_05: Um and if we should happen to use them like this year we did have a dancer have to stop competing for like an emotional health situation.
27:37
SPEAKER_05: And so for them the people that were the alternates just stepped in and they were her costumes.
27:42
SPEAKER_05: So in their contract it says if for some reason you're not able to continue your costumes are our property until the end of the season.
27:47
SPEAKER_05: So she brought the costumes in and then those alternates were able to use that costume.
27:51
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
27:52
SPEAKER_05: But they do pay for the class and the rehearsal because they are in their learning training.
27:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah if that's what we do but it's an opportunity for them to grow and learn.
27:59
SPEAKER_05: So we do charge them for that.
28:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: I love that I actually guess I did guest choreography at a studio last season in San Diego and they had three understudies learning the choreography with me in the back of the room and I was like and they also had the number line in their studio space which I was and the kids understood how to use the number line and I was just like you know blown away by that.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: And then on top of it they had already assigned understudies and I was like my mind I just couldn't believe it.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: I was like this is everything I need to succeed as a guest choreographer.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Like that was one of the studios that I felt like they actually put the time and thought in and like to be completely honest like the studio owner came from a professional background and experience working as a professional dancer.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: So they had the understanding of like well what's going to happen if you know we're not gonna do a reblock we're just gonna have an understudy.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: That's how it is in the real world or oh we use a number line because that's what we use in the real world and I'm getting my kids prepared.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm like I love what you're doing but it just it just it made it it made it that much easier for me and also knowing like you said Glenn that like it's gonna be in the right hands when you leave whoever's choreographing it but the understanding for dancers to learn how to be an understudy is so crucial and important and important uh that not many dancers get to learn and it's a very, very tough job and it's scary.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Honestly it's scary.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And in that scenario it was like a group of probably like 16 dancers and there were three and they didn't really have assigned who am I watching type of things.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: I think they can figure that out later.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: But that's a that's a lot of positions and numbers and choreography and things to learn.
29:33
SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh but I think having that alternate or understudy there learning it first makes it so much better than if they have to jump in later when someone gets hurt a week before a competition then what are you supposed to do?
29:44
SPEAKER_05: Right.
29:44
SPEAKER_05: So we typically for any of our like higher level groups or specialty dances we always have one or two alternates.
29:51
SPEAKER_05: I was just gonna say this year I did a modern routine and it was a lot of lifts so I actually did two casts.
29:56
SPEAKER_05: Oh nice and I gave each person a person that they did learn the routine so if anybody couldn't do it or wasn't there the second cast was ready to go.
30:05
SPEAKER_05: And we've had to use three of the second cast in competition already.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow yeah in the scenarios where you have one like understudy or alternate how are you choosing that person?
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Is that somebody saying I want to do this or are you saying hey so and so from the other class that's sort of adjacent can you do this?
30:23
SPEAKER_05: For me it's a combination.
30:25
SPEAKER_05: So sometimes it's that person that wants to do extra that's not ready or it's someone that their parents say they can't do extra but they are ready.
30:33
SPEAKER_05: And this is sort of an opportunity.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah or it's someone that's just almost ready to do the dance but not quite.
30:40
SPEAKER_05: So it gives them that growth opportunity.
30:41
SPEAKER_05: So it's a little combination.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Something I'm curious to to learn more about is what when it comes down to you know sitting around the table after auditions and casting dancers in what dances and for these maybe extra bonus dances like duo trios or small groups, what are some of the attributes that you're looking for in a dancer to pair them with one another what what makes dancers cohesive with one another is it just based on level or are there other strengths that dancers might have that you're like oh this is I think they'd be great fit together.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's pair them up.
31:18
SPEAKER_04: Um I'll take that a real quick a number of angles for me I'm a very visual person so like I like to try to pair people by height and you know um making sure that everything looks symmetrical.
31:32
SPEAKER_04: I also like when I had the opportunity to cast I also like to just combine a group of kids maybe that all do a bunch of different things very well.
31:42
SPEAKER_04: Because I'm not like if if I'm clean at a dance I don't want it to look computer generated.
31:47
SPEAKER_04: I want them to all look the same but not be the same.
31:49
SPEAKER_04: So I like to try to bring a group bring groups of kids together that have multi-dimensional strengths.
31:55
SPEAKER_04: I think most studios however have to do it by age level it's hard to leave a uh a friend behind with larger groups smaller groups you can you can all you know get just the the five best turnovers together just the five best contemporary dancers together that's you know um something that every studio does but as far as as far as I'm concerned it's a visual thing for me like it's a visual thing.
32:18
SPEAKER_04: You can coach if if everybody's on a similar level you can coach dancers up to all attain the same energy I feel like if you're a good coach.
32:25
SPEAKER_05: For me like if you're thinking like small groups of duet trios I go work ethic work ethic yeah dedication attitude then skill because at some point they're all training together anyway and so when I look at them like sometimes the kids want to be like I want to do a duet with Leslie and I'm like well Leslie's not gonna practice and so you can see like she's not like the you know lazy she's lazy girl I literally look at that like their work ethic together and we've had the most success when we match their work ethic and their dedication.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
32:58
SPEAKER_05: And then their good attitude right because sometimes you're gonna have that kid that has all that but there's a bad attitude.
33:05
SPEAKER_05: And then the skill because right now like they're all training together.
33:08
SPEAKER_05: So basically they're mostly close.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's kind of what I think about like small group and I've definitely seen a lot um of posts recently uh I mean I for some reason I'm in a dance mom group on Facebook.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm obviously not a dance mom but I'm in the group yeah and I actually honestly that's why I'm in there like thank you to whoever approved me into the group I'm I'm primarily there to just see like what are the moms talking about and it helps me navigate future podcast episodes and things that people want to talk about.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: And some things that I've seen a lot of moms say is like has anyone ever experienced uh their duo partner not uh putting in the same work and not being at the same level and not wanting to practice and letting their partner down.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I've seen parents say that and I'm sure studio owners feel the same way and studio owners obviously know that like hey Susie you got to pick up the slack come on like this person's leading the dance and maybe they go back and and look like this wasn't the best casting.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: This like we we kind of messed up at the beginning of the season by pairing these dancers together because they're best friends and there was pressure from mom saying oh they should be together.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: They'd be great in a duo trio can we have Susie and Taylor together and then you know you kind of see it realize once you get to comp and stage like they're not really cohesive.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: They're not really they don't really have that connection on stage one's kind of leading the other and you know that's I think the hardest part of duo trios.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to watch as a judge too because you can tell if these kids are mismatched, if it was political pressure from the parents I can tell you can tell the one kid does not want to be there, doesn't know the dance, kind of hates her life and then old Susie Q is just like living her best dreams doing her dance and you're like, oh this is not fair to either one of them and it's just it's hard to watch sometimes when when you can really tell that the casting was just pressure based um and not like an organic decision of this makes sense, you know?
35:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
35:03
SPEAKER_05: On top of hard to watch it's also hard to be the teacher or the coach of it.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:07
SPEAKER_05: So once they do it it's like oh this is like I did the best I could but to do this lesson like torture.
35:15
SPEAKER_04: Yeah you definitely you definitely have to make sure whenever you're casting that if you're casting from a larger group to smaller groups that you don't place kids together that just are oil and water.
35:26
SPEAKER_04: Right.
35:27
SPEAKER_04: You don't want to try to do things I think especially with like that tween age up if you if if kids are oil and water they're gonna be oil in water now.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: I think too you don't want to cast people because they live down the block from each right the carpool is going to be easy to get them to rehearsal.
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SPEAKER_00: Use the code IMPAT10 in all caps at checkout to receive 10% off your order for your brand new pair of compression socks at Apolloperformance.com I want to also talk a little bit about more of the like nitty gritty casting in terms of like actual placement in the dances because I used to write for a publication called Dance Parent 101 and there were multiple articles that I wrote kind of kind of to ease parents' concerns about my kid is always in the back row.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Why is my kid over here?
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Why is my kid not front and center?
37:37
SPEAKER_01: And I sort of had to go ahead and explain like everybody's important in a dance and the reason I'm putting your kid in X place is because of this.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: And I would love to hear from y'all you know how you go about like if you're if you're kind of giving me your traditional three lines and we switch lines and we go into a V and then we go into an X and whatever like why are you putting certain kids in certain places?
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Because that's part of casting also and I think we can kind of shed some light you know for some anxious parents too about why we do what we do.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: That's a good topic for sure.
38:06
SPEAKER_05: And I think it has a lot of layers to it right because like if you're looking at eight and nine year old tap beginner group they're gonna do what you said they're gonna be in three lines they're gonna make a V They're going to do the things and you're gonna look at again work ethic, their dedication what does their attendance look like?
38:21
SPEAKER_05: So a lot of times it's that too how's their attitude and can they do the skills you want them to do and sometimes it's their performance quality.
38:28
SPEAKER_05: So you'll have kids that won't perform at all but have all the good things.
38:32
SPEAKER_05: They have all the technique they have the execution they're great but they're not gonna perform so you're not gonna put them in a front and center spot if they're not going to perform yeah I am of the at the beginning levels the attitude of give everybody a chance to be in the front and have their opportunity to shine when they're beginners and then as it gets to be more advanced it's really about what they can bring to the table for their performance and their skill and where you put them based on again like their work ethic and do they show up and do they have a good attitude and are they going to do the work.
39:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah and then also then you have special skills if you're putting a special skill in if you're gonna do a a turn solo or a leg or a some kind of tumbling trick.
39:12
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna be specific to that child that's able to do that thing.
39:16
SPEAKER_05: Right.
39:17
SPEAKER_04: Well I I can say approach this from two different layers when I was a weekly teacher for nearly a decade I always no matter the level made sure that the lines changed at least once most times twice throughout the dance so that all the kids had a chance to be in the front no matter what if it was just a recital routine even if it was a competition routine for the lower levels.
39:37
SPEAKER_04: Me personally as a guest choreographer I always uh ask for videos from the year before if it's a group I'm not familiar with to see who's the strongest dancers I will ask hey who who can I count on to carry the routine what you know what two or three dancers can I do you count on not can I but do you count on to carry it who do I not need to ever put in the always ask those things but if if you're familiar with my choreography if you ever see it my dances I try to move every three to four accounts.
40:08
SPEAKER_04: When the song change when the song changes the stage changes.
40:11
SPEAKER_04: So I think as a choreographer that solves that if you can learn to stage your routine in a clever way to where everybody gets their chance no matter what's happening.
40:21
SPEAKER_04: But I always know that's not possible.
40:23
SPEAKER_04: But I I I know that that's kind of what I do as a choreographer is I tend to give everybody their moments of shine because they're all in the room.
40:30
SPEAKER_05: They all deserve the shot you know mostly yeah because I think too it's about self-confidence right because if they're on a team and they want to do the thing if it's not this like most elite advanced thing I'm always like it's not the Olympics.
40:42
SPEAKER_05: Right.
40:43
SPEAKER_05: So you know sometimes it's it's more important that they're able to have a good position in a routine to feel good.
40:49
SPEAKER_05: That might be the one thing that changes their trajectory of dance.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:53
SPEAKER_05: That you believed in them to be in the front row or do the solo part or something like that.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: So and I will say like with that and we've kind of like talked about the pros and cons of this but like again coming from the guest choreographer perspective I think it's sometimes really interesting uh and I think studios find it interesting when the guests select someone that they might not have necessarily wanted to put in the front or thought that would belong in the front or be the feature and the studio is like shocked by the guest choreographer's choice, not seeing that they aren't capable of doing it, but just like wow, I wouldn't have thought you would have gone in that direction.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna leave it and we're gonna we're gonna push it and that like I actually choreographed a different dance out in California and I remember a mom reaching out to me all season long, even the moment after I finished choreographing the dance and you know I didn't I did the same thing Glenn I reached out I asked about the strengths and who who's the strong turner who's this who can I rely on all those things because we need to know it's gonna make our job easier going in.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: But a mom was like I'm so honored that you picked my dancer for that that duet feature it completely she's never been featured before.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: It made her day and I know she's gonna live up to it.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: I know she is like thank you so much.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: And it just changed this dancer's life.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: It changed the mom's life by the end of the season the mom was seeing how much more confident she was because she had this highlight moment and maybe the studio teachers wouldn't have given that her chance that chance to her but I'm an outsider coming in not knowing anything about these dancers and something told me I want to give you the feature.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's like the good about guest choreography too as well.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: But I will say when it comes to like studio choreography at times and especially like here's the like con sometimes of the same teachers choreographing routines is sometimes they become a formula.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: You know those formula dances that we're talking about where it's the the jazz, the lyrical the contemporary they're all the same.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: They have the same dancers they have the same dancer doing front and center everything.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: They have the same dancer doing the turn scene once they have the same dancer doing the front aerial it's becomes expected and it's a formula where literally you just change the costume and the song like it's literally the exact same dance.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a that's a con when it comes to uh some studios just having the in-house choreographers doing the same thing because it gets repetitive and expected for us as judges and an audience viewer.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: And I do think it is extremely important to feature different dancers.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I shouldn't I shouldn't have to be like oh here we come again the same dancer is going to be featured.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't want to be going as a judge you don't want your judge feeling that walking into a dance and by the third time we see the formula we know what to expect.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: And that's unfortunate.
43:27
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
43:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
43:28
SPEAKER_05: And that's something that I think quite a few studios in the competitive world actually do.
43:32
SPEAKER_05: So that's like something that if you have the same teachers it's good to switch up one will teach lyrical and one will teach the contemporary and give a different teacher the opportunity to do the contemporary so they're not all the same.
43:43
SPEAKER_04: That was actually one of my largest um I'm not gonna use the word arguments but um disagreements.
43:50
SPEAKER_04: When I worked at this huge corporate studio was the director just was like this is you're gonna work with the same exact group of dancers for these three routines next year.
43:58
SPEAKER_04: And I I said I don't want To do that, I want to do a senior routine with all the senior girls, and I think that this boy needs to dance with this girl, and these girls need to dance together.
44:07
SPEAKER_04: And the director was like, Absolutely not.
44:09
SPEAKER_04: Wow, you got you gotta do it.
44:11
SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
44:12
SPEAKER_04: The routines didn't come out as good as the previous year because I was expected to recreate some magic that happened uh the year before, you know.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's the challenge for sure.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: And something else that I like when it comes to staging and formations and things, on the judge's end, I just want to mention that like I watch every dancer on stage.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: So if you are in the back line, don't think that I can't see you.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: I watch you first.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we actually watch you like more than the person in the front.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: We just talked about why certain dancers are picked for that front row.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: I already know I can rely on them.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm making sure as a judge that everyone is at the same level, everyone's giving the same amount of energy, everyone's uh getting those cramp rolls in or those rhythm turns in the back line.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: You're not allowed to just fumble through it just because you're in the back.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: I can see you.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: So we have to make sure that as a team, we are living up to the expectation cohesively for the whole team to deliver that technique score that we all want to be really high.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: But the other thing of when it comes to casting about staging that I is not my favorite is, and this is a this is a a sticky one.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: When studios cast dancers in a routine to help bring the level or age down, so they'll, you know, they want a teen group that's primarily their seniors dancing it.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: They threw in a few minis that that come out with a scarf and run across the stage and are off stage 90% of the time and are on stage for 10% of the time.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: And now that dance ends up to be like a junior routine because a mini did something.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: What are our thoughts on that?
45:49
SPEAKER_00: Because we see it a lot, and I feel like it's kind of like we're cheating, we're working the system a little bit in competitive dance, and I'm curious to hear.
45:57
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna let Pam, I'm gonna let Pam lead on that one, and then I'll Yeah.
46:02
SPEAKER_05: Uh, for me, I never do that.
46:04
SPEAKER_05: I keep our kids in the age unless we're doing a production and everyone's in there, and it averages teen.
46:10
SPEAKER_05: As a judge, I agree with you.
46:11
SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't want to see that.
46:13
SPEAKER_05: I don't want to see them, and I recently just saw that the last competition we went to.
46:16
SPEAKER_05: There were two tiny little ones.
46:17
SPEAKER_05: Everyone else was like 14, 15, and they ended up being junior.
46:22
SPEAKER_05: They literally came running on, did something very small, and then were part of the post.
46:26
SPEAKER_05: Right.
46:27
SPEAKER_02: That was it.
46:28
SPEAKER_05: And so for me as a judge, I I don't like that either.
46:30
SPEAKER_05: I don't want to see that.
46:31
SPEAKER_05: I want to see the kids in their age group and not like basically working the system.
46:35
SPEAKER_05: Right.
46:36
SPEAKER_05: If they're teen, they need to be teen.
46:38
SPEAKER_05: And like this year, I told you how we had one dancer that wasn't able to complete the season, and she was a senior.
46:43
SPEAKER_05: And when we put the alternates in, the alternates ended up were 15.
46:47
SPEAKER_05: Bringing in the age team.
46:47
SPEAKER_05: So for us, it worked in the backwards realm where then we went to this competition and we had two teen small groups.
46:53
SPEAKER_05: Right.
46:53
SPEAKER_05: Because the one was supposed to be C Wis Teen, and the one teacher looked at me and she's like, shoot, we probably should have passed a different person, but in that moment when that happens and you have like three days before competition and something happens like that, the person that's there, yeah, right.
47:06
SPEAKER_05: It works in the opposite effect of you're replacing someone.
47:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you would want to be, we wanted to be in the seniors.
47:13
SPEAKER_05: So I I never agree with the working assist with the tiny children.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: I think the only thing I don't mind is when it's very clear, like if you have a 15-year-old and her six-year-old sister and they're doing a cute duet to let them be little, cool.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: That's that's totally fine.
47:30
SPEAKER_04: Or everyone everyone on the whole entire company.
47:34
SPEAKER_04: Like it's everybody that wears a jacket on the stage at the same time.
47:37
SPEAKER_04: Okay, let's get yeah.
47:38
SPEAKER_05: Mom loves it.
47:39
SPEAKER_05: But if there's like a specific theme of something, sisters, yeah, yeah, fine.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Totally fine.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: That's not what we're talking about.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about when it's like you said, two kids here, here I am in the pose, and now I've now we've brought it down to junior level.
47:53
SPEAKER_04: I can say a lot about this.
47:55
SPEAKER_04: I'll say keep it short.
47:57
SPEAKER_04: You can call it work in the system, you can call it using your people.
48:00
SPEAKER_04: I call it cheap.
48:02
SPEAKER_04: Come on now.
48:04
SPEAKER_04: And it's a terrible word to say, but let's let's be real.
48:07
SPEAKER_04: We're we're talking about reality here.
48:08
SPEAKER_04: You really want a seven-year-old competing against a 15-year-old?
48:11
SPEAKER_04: Right.
48:11
SPEAKER_04: Come on.
48:12
SPEAKER_04: Like, is that is that what you're trying to do?
48:13
SPEAKER_04: Because if that's what you're trying to do, think about it.
48:16
SPEAKER_04: The the high school don't get to bring the senior quarterback to the middle screen uh football.
48:21
SPEAKER_04: Right.
48:22
SPEAKER_04: Like it don't it, you know, I always go back to school sports.
48:25
SPEAKER_04: Like it doesn't happen in that room, it doesn't happen on a college level or a it did doesn't happen, so why should it happen in there?
48:32
SPEAKER_04: It shouldn't.
48:32
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
48:32
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree.
48:33
SPEAKER_05: It's interesting because there's one convention we went to this year that had a rule about the ages that I hadn't seen before.
48:39
SPEAKER_05: And it was interesting because they did a like round table with the judges and the teachers after competition to just like talk deeper about the routines.
48:46
SPEAKER_05: Love it.
48:47
SPEAKER_05: And the one teacher was concerned because it the average age, the way it worked, it was like basically if you have a 15-year-old there and you cannot be junior.
48:54
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
48:54
SPEAKER_05: Or if you have a junior, you can't be whatever.
48:56
SPEAKER_05: And I'd never seen that before.
48:58
SPEAKER_05: But I liked it because you could not mess.
49:01
SPEAKER_05: It was what it is, what it is.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
49:03
SPEAKER_04: I like that thought.
49:04
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
49:05
SPEAKER_04: The same experience for me from coming in the past.
49:08
SPEAKER_04: I worked for a studio that very notoriously does this, and I was basically handed a cast of kids, and and and the the cast of kids always did really well.
49:18
SPEAKER_04: They were all the greatest in the studio.
49:20
SPEAKER_04: There was an 11 and a 12-year-old in there to keep them junior.
49:24
SPEAKER_04: So every time they went up on stage and won the junior, I was just like later when those two kids win the team titles, we're all gonna look stupid.
49:32
SPEAKER_04: Right.
49:34
SPEAKER_04: But it was handed to me, just if we're talking about it was handed to me.
49:39
SPEAKER_04: The kids you're working with, so I had to make the dance with the kids that I have, you know?
49:43
SPEAKER_04: That's that's how it was.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, well, and I think that's the smart thing too, Pam.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you keep your age levels together.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And I know other studios do it by skill level.
49:52
SPEAKER_01: So you will you might have a nine-year-old dancing with a 15-year-old, because that nine nine-year-old's just as good as a 15-year-old, but then you run into that problem of now you have a 15-year-old competing in the 10-12 category, and that's not just not really fair.
50:05
SPEAKER_05: Right.
50:05
SPEAKER_05: And then also, like that nine-year-old is not like socially emotionally ready to dance with a 15-year-old.
50:10
SPEAKER_05: Right.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: She can do things.
50:11
SPEAKER_05: And that's what we saw over and over.
50:13
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we saw that over and over.
50:15
SPEAKER_05: And then also they if you push the kid that's really talented, they burn out.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:19
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
50:20
SPEAKER_05: Two.
50:20
SPEAKER_05: So it's just like let them be kids.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I will they can do a solo and be awesome about it.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: I will say that like on my end growing up in my studio setting, we had a lot of different levels at our studio that this was pre-levels, obviously.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: But I there is a batch of dancers that I was kind of like my small group from being age 10 into our teen years until we all kind of went our separate ways for high school.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: But we all were very cohesive together and we're always cast together.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: We're all living on the same level.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: We might have been a little bit more advanced than some of the other dancers in our same age.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And our studio would oftentimes cast us with the next higher level above us and create like a large group or create a small group.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: And we weren't trying to work the system, it was actually based on level at that time because we could all kind of cohesively dance together and put seniors and juniors together and blend it into a teen dance.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: And while, you know, we might be saying, like, well, that doesn't really feel fair.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: I think that the important thing to remember is the ratio of time on stage.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's more about like you're working the system when the junior dancers in that team dance are off stage more than the seniors and they're not getting the same amount of stage time.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: But if you really look at the dance and see, oh, wow, all these dancers have been on stage the entire time.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: They are dancing as a team, they are cohesive together, then I think it's okay because it wasn't intentionally working the system.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: It's that we're pairing these dancers, we're pushing the juniors to dance to the senior level and we're, you know, challenging them in that way and creating this like dynamite dance that's just going to be like my best candidates, you know, up against.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: And wherever the wherever it falls as far as age range-wise, of course, we want it to be in the higher division, but you know, pending ages and things, it might not usually fall in the middle.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I just you can we as judges can tell when it's when you're doing it for the wrong reasons versus properly casting dancers.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: Like there are many times where I'm like, wow, props to the studio owner.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: I understand as a judge, I don't even know your dancers, I understand why you put these dancers together.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: That is smart casting versus I don't know, this is I'm not really sure if everyone really fits together in this.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: And not, you know, we're really, really trying to make this work.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: It's not really working like you think it might.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: And like there are probably so many unknown reasons on the back end as to why we had to put those dancers together.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't have a large studio at this moment, and maybe these are the dancers that you know are your best dancers.
52:54
SPEAKER_04: I think that kind of has a little bit to do with everything.
52:57
SPEAKER_04: I think you can look at it from different layers.
52:58
SPEAKER_04: Or when you're casting, are you casting for the good of the dancer?
53:02
SPEAKER_04: Are you casting the good of the teacher?
53:04
SPEAKER_04: Casting for the good of the studio to win a trophy.
53:06
SPEAKER_04: Like all of those things have to come in play, I think.
53:09
SPEAKER_04: Like you're you know, when you're casting, like, is that is that nine-year-old really gonna need to be in the ring with that 14-year-old every week?
53:16
SPEAKER_04: Who knows?
53:17
SPEAKER_04: You know, you have to really think about the kids differently.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Totally agree.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: Something I'd like to chat about very briefly is solos.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: Do you uh when it comes to casting for solos, are uh, you know, I think that things have changed throughout the years.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: I know that when I was younger growing up in the competition world, and like I said, we had a very large studio, you had to work your way up to get a solo.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just handed out.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like you made competition team, here's the sign-up list who wants to do a solo this season.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't like that.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: I think it's kind of transitioned into that a little bit more for business reasons to uh for private lesson reasons, but it was something that we had to audition for and it was something I would earn.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we usually would get a duo trio first, see how we did with that, see if we were, you know, keeping up with our teammates and delivering, and then if we felt they felt like we were ready.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: But my first solo wasn't even until I think I was 10 years old and I was on the team for two years prior to that.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: Once my teachers felt ready that I was to able to do a solo.
54:15
SPEAKER_00: So, how do solos work when it comes to like casting?
54:18
SPEAKER_00: Are they are can anyone have a solo at your studio, Pam?
54:21
SPEAKER_00: Or are you more selective?
54:22
SPEAKER_05: Well, in the past we were selective, but in now we have if they're in the company, they can apply to do a solo.
54:29
SPEAKER_05: And most of them we take, and the reason is because they all can grow individually in the solo.
54:35
SPEAKER_05: And so we see that if they don't make that special dance they want to do or they're not ready for their multiple dances, if they get on stage and they do a solo, they will grow as a dancer in the way that they need to grow and they can shine in that way.
54:48
SPEAKER_05: Or if it's the student that's like really top-notch in their age bracket, but you're not gonna move them into teen because they're nine.
54:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
54:55
SPEAKER_05: They can shine as a soloist.
54:57
SPEAKER_05: But in the past, we did it where it was something they looked forward to.
55:00
SPEAKER_05: And it's funny because I just had a conversation last week about this with a couple other studio owners that said, you know, there's gotta be something that you hold back that they look forward to doing.
55:09
SPEAKER_05: And so it made me think about the solo or like a duet trio or maybe some special thing that they have to look forward to doing.
55:16
SPEAKER_05: Because if they just get to do everything all the time and they've done everything, by the time they're 14, they're like, Yeah, I've done all the things.
55:22
SPEAKER_05: And I guess I'll so that's it is a consideration.
55:26
SPEAKER_05: But for me, I look at it and if they have the opportunity to get better by doing the solo, I want to help them with that.
55:32
SPEAKER_05: So it's more of a helping thing than like we don't go to competition to win the big trophy.
55:37
SPEAKER_05: If it happens, great, but not every child will do that, but they'll get better.
55:42
SPEAKER_04: So on my end as a guest choreographer, I always when I'm asked, uh, you know, hey, I got these two soloists for you.
55:48
SPEAKER_04: Somebody I don't know, I say, can are they at least intermediate advanced level?
55:52
SPEAKER_04: Because I'm a guest choreographer, it's gonna take her to pick up a solo and the nuances of a solo that quickly.
55:57
SPEAKER_04: But as a teacher, before I, you know, returned to being a freelance full-time, the studio I worked at for almost a decade, it was invite only.
56:05
SPEAKER_04: Like you didn't, it was in your company contract.
56:08
SPEAKER_04: Do not ask for a solo, you will be invited.
56:10
SPEAKER_04: More times than not, uh, it was literally only like the the highest four or five there at that studio.
56:17
SPEAKER_04: The other kids that maybe wanted to work towards a solo would get a trio or a duo.
56:22
SPEAKER_04: And then the other experience I had basically a spreadsheet goes out, like a questionnaire goes out, do you want a solo?
56:27
SPEAKER_04: What style?
56:28
SPEAKER_04: Do you want to do a trio?
56:29
SPEAKER_04: What style?
56:30
SPEAKER_04: And then the director and the teachers and the owner would get together and they would discuss does she need a solo this year?
56:36
SPEAKER_04: Okay, she had one last year, the jazz didn't go so well.
56:39
SPEAKER_04: Could she grow in a lyrical solo?
56:40
SPEAKER_04: Or she really likes hip-hop.
56:42
SPEAKER_04: Does she deserve, does she need to do a hip-hop solo, or does she need to keep doing that jazz solo?
56:46
SPEAKER_04: I think it's based on really like does the kid need to do it?
56:49
SPEAKER_04: And I agree with you, Pam.
56:51
SPEAKER_04: Solos can make those dancers that kind of need that extra help better because they get that one-on-one attention in those private lessons and it has a weekly check-in for you to keep that dancer working on the things that you as a teacher know that they need to work on.
57:06
SPEAKER_04: And then you can include the things that you know that they need to work on in their solo every week to make them better for the team in the East Track.
57:14
SPEAKER_04: I think they can be beneficial.
57:15
SPEAKER_04: I don't think that every dancer needs more than one solo.
57:18
SPEAKER_04: I had this conversation with my mother-in-law just the other night, who was a dance teacher of 50 plus years.
57:24
SPEAKER_04: This girl is a senior and she has three solos, and all of them are not scoring well.
57:29
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, well, maybe if she only did one, she'd have time to perfect that one.
57:34
SPEAKER_04: She'll have time to perfect three.
57:36
SPEAKER_04: So I don't know.
57:37
SPEAKER_04: I I get really with my comments on that.
57:39
SPEAKER_05: No, I look, I mean you're slow.
57:40
SPEAKER_05: So I think that's yeah, I think that's important too to think.
57:42
SPEAKER_05: Like, of course, most students should just do one.
57:45
SPEAKER_05: I think when they get to be more advanced, like we have several students that do like a contemporary and a tap or a jazz and a tap.
57:51
SPEAKER_05: Because they're strong in both, or because they're strong in one and they want to get better at the other, is kind of that.
57:56
SPEAKER_05: Or we might have them do more if they do YGP.
57:59
SPEAKER_05: So we have some that do YGP, so they'd be doing like a classical and a contemporary ballet, and then they want to compete a solo.
58:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
58:06
SPEAKER_05: But that would be that would be it for us with that.
58:09
SPEAKER_04: I think a lot of people forget where the multiple solos come from.
58:12
SPEAKER_04: Used to most competitions, if you wanted to compete for title, you had to solos.
58:16
SPEAKER_04: You had to do one in regular and one in title if you wanted to compete.
58:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like uh I agree.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was I was a dancer who did multiple solos growing up.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: I didn't uh I only ever had three, I think, my senior year.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't not my senior year.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, the last year I competed.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: Couldn't tell you why I had three, but I I think I had three.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: But I always was the dancer that did the traditional lyrical and a jazz dance.
58:42
SPEAKER_00: That was what I did.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: And it definitely challenged me in both of those styles, obviously.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: And they were very distinctly different styles.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: It was what we know as 90s lyrical, which I love and technique everywhere and turned out positions, and then it was to stylize jazz.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: And my jazz teacher looking back, who taught me everything I know, Shannon Torres, she gave me a different uh style of jazz every year to change it up for me, to challenge me.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: One year I would do a classic theatrical jazz, the next I would do a more sultry jazz, the next year I'd do a Latin jazz, the next year I'd do a more commercial jazz, like to give me variety.
59:18
SPEAKER_00: And something that I notice, uh, you know, obviously we see dancers come out with solos that are identical and it makes me sad and mad, and I'm just like, I'm watching the same dance over again.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, give me some variety.
59:27
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that your dancers, pam, are doing like the tap in a contemporary.
59:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I will take that all day long.
59:33
SPEAKER_00: But then there are times where I actually feel like that the teacher may have missed, maybe gave them the right style, but gave them the wrong uh style within the style, if that makes sense.
59:45
SPEAKER_00: So, like there is times where I see, like, there was a dancer recently, actually.
59:49
SPEAKER_00: I could tell she'd be a fantastic jazz dancer, but she was doing the slow, sultry jazz that she wasn't really mature enough for yet.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: But I could tell by her energy that she would just kill like a feet, a fight, like a fiery, like stylized, like clean, hot, like high-energy jazz.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: And the whole time I felt like that was just like miscast in a way, because I was just like, I I like what we're going for, but she's not ready yet for this.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_00: She can, she can will kill this at age 15, but she's only 11 right now, and her technique's not there and the style's not there.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: And I wish that, like, I can tell by her personality, she just needs this fiery jazz.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: And like casting-wise, like that's just like a song choice and a stylistic choice.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: But there are some times where yes, we're pushing the dancer to like challenge them in this new style.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: But I also think that like we have to take a step back and be like, what what will make them succeed?
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: Because I think the goal is, you know, it's a competition.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: Like they want to, they're gonna be like, well, why did I only place 10th overall instead of second?
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, because your teacher kind of gave you the wrong song, not gonna lie.
1:00:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it was the wrong song for you this year.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_00: And like, that's unfortunate.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_00: And we'll do better next year.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, so many factors go into even the the selection of what song I'm gonna give you, what style I think you're gonna do well with, who's who's gets paired.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's so much more that I don't think parents understand when dance when dancers are casting across the board for a dancer.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I totally agree with that.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_05: Cause I think it's really like it's such a fine little ingredient that go in there that you pick the right song, the right style for that kid and their journey and where they are in the journey.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_05: Because sometimes like you might have that top girl that's like the technique and all the things, but if you give her the wrong thing, just like you said, if it's that 11-year-old that's not ready, it's not gonna fire.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_05: And then the teacher's like, you're not doing your job with the kids.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_05: And it's really just that song choice or that style.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_05: So it's true.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_05: As teachers, when we're casting, even if they want to do a solo and they want to do contemporary and they want to do jazz, if they're gonna be more successful in one than the other, that's our job to make that choice of what is a guide in the right direction.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we have to we definitely have to be their guides for sure.
1:01:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_04: As a guest choreographer, that's one of the reasons I have chosen um over the past five or six years to do less solos.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_04: Because I found that yeah, it was great to make the money and say yes to every single solo.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_04: I found that I I don't know the kid as well as that teacher does, and you know that limited time, especially if as a kid I'm not familiar with at a studio I haven't been to a lot.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm not I I usually won't take many solos to the newer solo uh studio just because if I leave and this kid doesn't like the song and is unsure of the choreography, you've got an unhappy kid, a mess on your hand, by the end of the year the parents are gonna be unhappy.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_04: Right, just not where anybody wants to be.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with that.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, in another conversation for another time, though, thinking of song selection, this is why t studio owners and teachers and choreographers, like we really advocate for for yes, you can have a say, but if you bring me a Megan Trainer song, I'm promising you that is not the right song.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_01: I promise you.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_01: If you have listened to this podcast at all, that is why we we have the we have the final say, we should have the final say, because like that's just what that's what it is.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_04: I could you not this summer.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_04: I was working with some teens that I know, and I let them all bring one song that they want to dance to, and one song they can see themselves dancing to.
1:03:16
SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_04: Oh, interesting.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_04: And I I told them, I said, I I told the girl, I said, as long as it's not the theme song from Euphoria, I'm fine.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_04: She goes, I was literally gonna play that for you.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_05: I said, Don't do it.
1:03:29
SPEAKER_05: No.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_05: But I like how you asked because I think right now with like Gen Z kids, what I've learned from them is they really want to have a say, they want to walk side by side with you and they want to have something in on it with you.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_05: They want to have ownership, they do, they do.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_05: So we do it a little bit with the groups, like this year.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_05: Um, for their tap group, for example, I gave them two song choices and I was like, Do you want to do this song or this song?
1:03:54
SPEAKER_05: And then they were very excited to be able to pick the song themselves.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_05: And um, the year before I let them kind of help me with the costuming, the senior kids, because I was like, I'm thinking of this, but what would you like?
1:04:04
SPEAKER_05: And why don't you give me your in your input because then they are more invested in what it is, right?
1:04:10
SPEAKER_04: We have to have the final say, but giving them take it in a direction you never thought of if you do that.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_00: And you'd be like, Oh, that's a great idea.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even think of that.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that'll look cute.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's go.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get biker shorts and whatever.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, you would never even think, because honestly, sometimes I feel a little out of the loop.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_00: I know what I I'm great at and and what I love and what the aesthetic I like, but I might be not as trendy and cool as these fresh young kids that have way better like vision than I do.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_05: Well, you'll be way trendier and cool than I hate.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_05: So I had to learn to adapt a little bit, right?
1:04:45
SPEAKER_05: So then that worked.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_05: But then also one year I did I went on their Instagrams and looked at like what they would like to wear, and I picked the costume from their Instagrams.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_05: And then when they got it, they were like, This is amazing.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_05: They loved it so much.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_05: And then I told them what I did, and they thought that was cool because I just looked at like what they were wearing to make them because you know it was a tap dance, and of course, like not everybody loves tap.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_05: You've got the group of kids that do, and the group of kids that do it because they have to.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_05: And so, at least if you can involve them in some way in the song or the costume, then they all loved it because it was something they felt comfortable wearing.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think giving agency is is certainly a great choice.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you do it with toddlers, it's like that's the advice.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, you can have the you can have this cookie or that cookie, and then you get the negotiations, especially from the toddlers.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, well, what about that one?
1:05:29
SPEAKER_01: No, you get two choices.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: That that that is the choice, it's one or the other, and that's all.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_01: And Megan Trainer is not on the list of cookies.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, in Leslie's book, absolutely not.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: No.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_00: But I do think, like we've stressed, it is very important for the studio owner or the choreographer or the teacher to have the final say in all of these things because we're really here.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: We're the professionals in this.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_00: We're the ones that are here to guide your dancers in the best way.
1:05:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes can get lost by the pressure of parents wanting us to.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: thing or the pressure of another teacher wanting a certain thing.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_00: And like even when the studio owner had to step in and say, this isn't really going to work.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't really see the vision here.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_00: Like let's go back.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_00: Let's, you know, let's revisit this.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_00: Let's rethink about this.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_00: Or, oh, that song's really not that appropriate.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want that to be a poor reflection of my studio at competition.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes the higher ups need to really like put the foot down and bring people back to reality because mom might want a Megan Trainer dance and mom has no idea that that Megan Trainer dance is, I've heard it 500 times and it's an overused song.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: And the last thing I want is my dancer to go out on stage and have an overused song where it's just like here we go again, dear future husband, oh my God.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I just edit that one line like, you know, right.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: It's always something.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, y'all, this was such a great chat.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_00: Leslie, do you feel like we are at a good place?
1:06:49
SPEAKER_01: I think we are.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_01: And I just want to again thank both of you for your time and your expertise.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_01: I think this will be a very informative listen for a lot of our listeners.
1:06:58
unknown: Yeah.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_04: I hope that I didn't ramble too too much.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_04: We love to ramble over here.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_00: Rambling is allowed on a podcast so you are in the right place to ramble.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_00: And Glenn, I'm so grateful for you to jump in last minute and join Pam on this lovely chat.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_04: So awesome.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_04: I I I have to say Courtney I know you and have met you in person Leslie it's really nice to meet you.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_04: I know after the forums and we've been connected for years and years and years.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_04: It's so nice to be like face to face with you.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_05: It is it's so nice.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_05: This is a great chat.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_05: Thanks for having me.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_05: And I think being part of competition and casting is very rewarding and if it's done right it's very positive.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_05: So I'm happy to be here to share with you guys.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_00: Well how we have all of our guests lead us out on our episodes of Making the Impact is just with one final thought on the topic of discussion today, which is all about casting dancers for competition routines.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_00: You can speak to the parents you can talk to other studio owners dancers themselves and maybe put some more perspective into you know those auditions coming up for the next season and sharing the casting process a little bit more.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_04: Final thoughts I'll go first so that Pam can go um last.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_04: I would say just trust the process.
1:08:08
SPEAKER_04: You have to trust the process whatever process it is and parents you have to trust the people that you're paying and dancers you have to trust the people that are in front of you.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_04: Trust, trust, trust.
1:08:21
SPEAKER_04: If there's no trust in it and the end product's not going to come out like anyone wants it.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_04: If you're constantly questioning what's being given to you it will show and I think as studio owners and teachers we just have to be sure that we're setting our students and our people up to succeed when you can you don't want to put the wrong people in the room together and you don't want to give them a routine they cannot you want to always make sure that you're looking out for the dance through and what the next level you want to take in.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_05: I love that and it's funny because the the one word I was going to say is trust and you said it so many times and I was like yes it's so much about trusting the process the teachers the parents trusting their kids and the kids just having good work ethic.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_05: So when you have good work ethic and a good attitude it really matters for your casting for your teachers and parents the same for you.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_05: So we want to make sure that parents also instill good work ethic and dedication in their students because we see a little bit of lack of that here since 2020 of that happening.
1:09:22
SPEAKER_05: And then just know that the casting is always what's best for the child and a lot of time and energy goes into that from all the teachers to pick the best cast for their routines to make every child be successful.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode all about how studios cast their dancers in competition routines.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_00: Be sure to follow our special guests on social media.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: You can find Pam at Pam Simpson and Glenn at Dean Minardi.
1:09:50
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1:09:58
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1:10:04
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1:10:12
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1:10:18
SPEAKER_00: Are you looking for even more personalized in-depth feedback from your standard judges' critiques that you've been receiving at competition this season?
1:10:26
SPEAKER_00: Want to really know how to take your dance to the next level?
1:10:29
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1:10:37
SPEAKER_00: You can even request a judge that specializes in your submitted dance genre and they will go back through your routine from beginning to end and pause the video to elaborate even more on those specific corrections.
1:10:49
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1:10:58
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1:11:01
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1:11:06
SPEAKER_01: We can't wait to see your dance stay tuned for the final few episodes of Making the Impact season four including a topic chosen by you the listeners our final spotlight feature and our season four wrap up We'll see you next week on Making the Impact.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_00: Until then keep dancing