Latest / Ridiculous History / CLASSIC: Meet Albert Cashier, the Trans Man Who Fought for the Union in the Civil War

Transcript

CLASSIC: Meet Albert Cashier, the Trans Man Who Fought for the Union in the Civil War · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous historians, we're back with a classic episode. This
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: one is a very fascinating tale from the days of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the U.S. Civil War.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: That's right. Born as Jenny Hodgers, assigned female sex at
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: birth on December 25th, 1843, Albert Cashier died. immigrated to
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the United States to live as a man from his
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: early teens through the rest of his life. And there
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: were a lot, as you can imagine still are today,
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: quite a lot of prejudices at the time that Albert
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: had to deal with.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, massive prejudice, a lot of discrimination. This person was
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: known as a very solid soldier and a friend of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: various communities. However, everything came to a head when the U.S.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: government learned Albert's identity, and tried to revoke his pension.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Let's roll the tape.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. One of the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: weird things about U.S. history is that we have strange
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: names for wars. We call the Civil War the Civil War,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: which is a weird name if you think about it
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: for any sort of war, especially one that bellicose and bloody.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Here's a fact you may not know about the Civil War.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: There are over 400 solidly documented cases of women disguising
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: themselves as men and fighting as soldiers on both sides
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: of the conflict, the Union and the Confederacy. Welcome to
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History. My name is Ben.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: My name is Noel. And Ben, I'm just going to
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: go ahead and get this out of the way, get
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: out of my system right up front. Sort of like Mulan.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: You're getting something out of your system like Mulan?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: No, no. This case of like the women dressing up
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: like men so they could fight in the war, kind
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of like Mulan, which is about to have a live
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: action adaptation.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I saw the teaser. I'm quite excited.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: This episode is not brought to you by the Disney Corporation. No,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: but it's an interesting distinction, Ben, because a lot of folks,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: women dressed up in men's clothing and passed as men
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: in order to either Escape a harsh life and get
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: the relatively stable life of a soldier, which gave you
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: three square meals a day, roof over your head, etc.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, of course, you know, you had to put
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: your life on the line for some folks that might
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: have been. preferable to the conditions they were living in
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: before that. This story that we're talking about today is
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: a little different because the individual that's at the center
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: of this story is someone who continued to go on
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: living as a man after the war was over.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: That's correct. That's correct. And we want to be very
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: clear here. Science shows that gender as it is commonly
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: understood is largely a social construct. And we wanted to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: share with you today the story of Albert Cashier, who
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: fought for the union in the U.S. Civil War and
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: was a trans man. Before we continue, I can't believe
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: we got this far in the episode without shouting out
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: our super producer, Casey Pegram. Now, Casey, you're not what
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: people would describe as a Civil War buff, especially.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Is that correct? That's correct. Yeah, I'm not really too
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: heavily invested in that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: What was that four-hour Civil War film?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: The Civil War?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Gettysburg? Gettysburg, yeah.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Wasn't there one that... No, that's a Ken Burns. Ken Burns.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It's like probably 10 or 12 hours. Okay, so, okay. Well, look,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: I was thinking of a high-hour-count Civil War documentary. I
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: love how Ken Burns' documentaries are so, like, authoritative. They're
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: just like.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Jazz, baseball. Yeah, yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: The Civil War.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I want him to go a little more afield sometimes.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: You know, I wish he just did very, very specific things,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: you know, like, mascots.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: That'd be good. I'll tell you what is very, very
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: specific about Ken Burns is his haircut. Have you seen it?
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It's like a very interesting twist on the bowl cut.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's living his life.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: He is living his life. And I'll tell you who
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: else was living their lives is Albert Cashier, who was
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: born on December 25th, 1843 in a fantastically named Cloggerhead County.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's Cloggerhead. There's a GH sound. What do you think, Ben?
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: We learned our lesson about Gaelic. Let's just spell it. C-L-O-G-H-E-R.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Head. I'm going to go with Cloverhead. That's what I'm
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: going to shoot for. Go for it. And that is
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: in the county of Louth. Louth? Louth.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I would hazard it is Louth.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: You would hazard it is Louth. Let's see what Forvo
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: has to say about this.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Louth. Louth. Louth? Louth.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: The robot voice has spoken. Louth is what we shall
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: go with today. For the purposes of this story. So, yeah,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: County of Louth, Ireland. And the interesting thing or the,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I guess, galling thing about the story is that there
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: isn't that much that we know about this person's life.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: And the things that we do know come from a
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: recorded account when Cashier was going through the throes of
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: dementia back in 1913. But we are going to do
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: our best to piece together what we do know about
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: this fascinating individual and their bravery and their life.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Right. So the account comes when Cashier is 70 years
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: old and suffering from a bit of mental deterioration with age.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Here's what we know. So Cashier was born in Ireland,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: as you said, in 1843, immigrated to Illinois at a
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: very young age, sometime in childhood, but exactly when is
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: not clear.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: As a stowaway on a ship, first to, I want
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: to say, England, London, and then carried on to New
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: York City.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: And from his teenage years, Cashier was living as a man.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And he did so until his death at age 71.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: So the account we have comes one year before he
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: passes away. And his story is remembered because of his
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: service in the Civil War. Kashir is one of many,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: many people who were living their lives in a way
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: that was largely unacknowledged by the public, by the communities
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: through which they moved. And that's a problem that continues
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: today throughout the world, throughout the species. But in Kashir's case,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Uncle Sam itself confirmed or affirmed, would be a better word,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: this male identity. We know that at some point after immigrating,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: cashier was given men's clothing by an uncle or stepfather
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: with the idea being that, you know, hey, kid, wear
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: this and you can get a job at this shoe factory.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And that's where that's where Albert adopts the name Albert Cashier.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: It's interesting, too, that there is this idea of cooperation
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: from a member of the patriarchy that was that would
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: potentially have had a problem with this and caused a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: lot of difficulties for this young person at the time.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: But the account that we have is that the uncle
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: or stepfather was in fact cooperative and helpful and helped
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Albert mask his assigned gender identity and secure work at
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: a shoe factory. And that's when he took on the
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: name Albert Cashier so that he could work and he
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: lived by himself and he kept to himself. And this
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: is something that he would continue doing once he enlisted
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: in the U.N. army in 1862. He would shower on
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: his own. He would change into his, you know, from
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: his uniform on his own. And that wasn't seen as
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: being particularly strange, right? Like that was pretty common, according
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: to some of the records that we've seen for other
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: soldiers to do that. It wasn't like a big boys
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: club kind of locker room situation.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Right, right. And for the record, 1862, that makes Albert
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: 19 when joining the Union. So here's what we know
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: for certain. On August 6th, 1862, 19-year-old Albert Cashier was
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a resident of Belvedere, Illinois, and enlisted in the 95th
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Illinois Infantry. Like you mentioned earlier, Noel, Albert was known
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: to keep mostly to himself. And the only thing people
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: really called out about or busted chops about with him
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: was that he was the shortest person in the squad.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But he passed the medical exam.
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  Speaker 2: Which only consisted of looking at like things like teeth
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: and I guess arches, you know, make sure he didn't
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: have any bone spurs or anything like that. And the
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: ability to wield a rifle. Those are the things that
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: there was no looking at private bits. Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: Cashier was also known for being the silent type, not
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: super extroverted. but being very, very brave in the field
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: of battle. We also found that correspondences from the time
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: suggest Cashier had a significant other during the war. And
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: like many other soldiers on both the Union and Confederate
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: sides of that conflict, Cashier wrote to this significant other.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: That was the Morey family he kept in contact with
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: in Babcock's Grove, Illinois. Cashier's regiment participated in over 40... engagements,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: battles in the war. They were part of the Army
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: of the Tennessee, and that included the Siege of Vicksburg,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: the Red River Campaign, battles in Kennesaw Mountain in Jonesboro, Georgia,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: very near where we are here in Atlanta, and also
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: the Battle of Nashville. And he survived. In fact, he
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: also there's a story that isn't very detailed, but he
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: supposedly was captured at one point. And he more or
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: less just was a badass and like knocked over his
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: captor and ran on foot all the way back to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: his camp and escaped. And all the while avoiding being detected.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: He was even treated for diarrhea once and was able
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: to kind of like wiggle his way out of getting shot.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: inspected in any kind of way that would have given
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: away his secret. And that capture was in 1863 during
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: the siege of Vicksburg.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: In May. So, Gashier serves a three-year enlistment with his regiment,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: the 95th, until they are mustered out, honorably discharged on
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: August 16th of 1865. To put in perspective how amazing
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: it is for anyone to survive this sort of conflict,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: out of the 95th Regiment, 289 soldiers died due to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: death on battlefield or due to disease. Because I thought
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: it was interesting that you mentioned the idea of joining
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: a military to get three square meals a day. That
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: is the case now, right? In the U.S. military and
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: most Western militaries, you will be fed. You will have
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: a place to sleep. It may not be ideal, but
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: you will have those things. This was not always the
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: case in the Union and Confederate armies. People were fighting
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: for ideological reasons, at least the people on the ground.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: And Albert's reputation continues. Well after the war, his brothers-in-arms
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: remember this guy that they thought was you know, kind
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: of short, but so brave. He was plucky, you know,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and he undertook dangerous assignments. He was admired for his
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: heroic actions, his bravery, and he was somewhat of an enigmatic,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: fascinating figure because he never seemed to get a serious injury.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: He was blessed in some way.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Very much so. And that reputation carried over into his
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: life after the war, where he continued to keep to himself.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it makes sense that he would do that
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: because too many questions or getting too close to anybody
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: could have opened the door to him being discovered, which
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: could have robbed him of his pension. That's another thing
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: that is a positive aspect of being in the military.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: You get paid even after your service, of which he
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: did the full term, by the way. So he moved
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: back to a small community in Illinois where he had
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: immigrated to originally and was like a pillar of the community. People,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you know, didn't really know too much about him, but
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: he was like regarded as a very good citizen and
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: treated with respect and no one invaded his privacy. And
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: during this time, he had many odd jobs, including like
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: he was like a lamplighter for the city. I think
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: he was a custodian at a hospital. And he also
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: worked for a lawmaker. He found himself working for Senator
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Ira Lash. And that is when things kind of started
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: going downhill for Cashier. When the senator, the honorable senator,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: accidentally hit Cashier with his car and broke his leg,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: forcing him to be taken to hospital immediately. And examined.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Right. And at this time, you know, as we said,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: he was a respected, established member of the community. He
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't like a Boo Radley type shut in from Harper
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird. He was known.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: He was active.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: He wore his uniform all the time.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: That's right. And buttoned up to his neck, apparently, to
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: hide the fact that he did not have an Adams app.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: That's correct. And you can read an excellent source on
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: this from irishtimes.com, When Jenny Came Marching Home, an Irish
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: woman's diary on Albert Cashier and the U.S. Civil War
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: by Nora Eide McAleef. So let's fast forward. November 1910,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the senator hits Cashier with his car. Albert, at this point,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: is 67 years old. His leg is broken, goes to
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the hospital, as you said, and the hospital... The staff
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: of the hospital learns the sex assignment. They agree that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: they are not going to betray the trust. This is
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: a good bunch of doctors and medical professionals.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Again, incredibly progressive and super helpful and very lucky in
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: this string of like lucky events that has led this
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: person to have not been exposed for 67 years of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: their life. There's bad news. Yeah, although they can't all
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: be good eggs because once he is treated, he doesn't
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: really have any much money other than his pension. He
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: can't really work anymore. So he's sent to a place
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: called the Soldiers and Sailors Home in Quincy, Illinois, where
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: he is going to convalesce. And he stays there for
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: a few years. He stays there for a few years.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: In that amount of time, he starts to get the
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: onset of that dementia that we mentioned at the top
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: of the show. And that's when he's sent to and
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: this is a horrible term, but this is what it
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: was referred to at the time, a state hospital for
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: the insane. And there, his sex assignment is discovered again,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: and they aren't so kind about it.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: No, the Senator Lish intervened, and Lish, from what we
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: could tell, is the person who actually disclosed the sex
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: assignment of Albert Cashier and warned the staff, of this
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: state hospital to keep the information a secret, but these
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: two male nurses forced Albert to wear a dress and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: then took the information public, and the media got a
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: hold of it, and the story went national, and at
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: this time, remember we mentioned the pension earlier, at this time,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the Veterans Pension Board gets wind of this, and they
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: decide Instead of recognizing the soldier's duty and the fact
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: that they did the full term, right, of their enlistment,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: instead of recognizing that, the Veterans Pension Board begins to
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: investigate Albert for fraud. And keep in mind to this point,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Albert is 69, 70 years old and suffering from this
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: cognitive decline.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Well, they go on to say– they add insult to
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: injury in saying that there's no way this old elderly
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: person in their frail state could have possibly been the
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: heroic soldier who fought in the war and also because
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: of obviously the fact that they are female. But again,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: really progressive thinking at this time. His wife. compatriots, you know,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: from his army days come to his aid and back
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: up his story and say, no, this was the guy.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: They're like, that's my dude.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: And we don't care. Or I don't know. It's not,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously they would have heard the stories. They
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: would have had to come to his aid for a reason. Yeah.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And so they had to have like not cared.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: This was national news.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: National news. They had to have like not held a
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: grudge or you would think that, you know, maybe they
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: would have felt betrayed or something like that or lied to,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: but instead they seemed to see through to the truth
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: of the matter and come to his defense. And the
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: board decided to continue paying out his pension, as they
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: should have.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they assented. Because think about this. Think about the
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: time in which this debate is occurring. What are you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: going to do as the veteran board if other veterans
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: come to you and say essentially you were insulting the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: entire concept of serving in the military? and you are
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: not holding up your end of the bargain. And this
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: is heartbreaking. So Albert's fellow soldiers vouch for him and
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: raise enough of a stink and attention that the veteran
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: board does continue these pension payments. But Albert is still
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: lost in this place and declared insane. Albert fights the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: best way he can. He takes the skirts that he's
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: forced to wear and He ties them up with safety
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: pins so he can form pants out of them. But
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Albert trips one day, breaks a hip, and eventually dies
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: on October 10th, 1915, age 71. I know this sounds
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: like a downer, folks, but we promise you we do
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: have a happy ending of sorts.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely a really powerful legacy left behind. Let's
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: also not forget that the conditions that he was exposed
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: to were a direct result of a time before mental
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: health reform, where, you know, the idea of being insane
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: practically relegated you to, you know, forced confinement and very
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: little actual treatment and, you know, sort of just being
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: almost abandoned and left to rot. You know, there's all
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: these stories we know about the conditions in quote-unquote mental asylums,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: you know, insane asylums is what this would have been considered,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: and they were absolutely horrible and inhumane.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Here is the bittersweet Powerful ending. When Albert Cashier passes away,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: he is given a full military funeral. He is buried
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: in uniform. the uniform he always dressed in even after
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: the war there is a gravestone erected to him the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: gravestone does not read jenny hodgers the gravestone reads albert
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: dj cashier 60 years later the headstone has changed such
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that both names are there the original name and then
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Albert's name.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: How do you feel about that? I don't know.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I, I don't know how he would feel
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Because I'm wondering why they, why they chose to
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: do that. Was there some kind of outcry that like forced,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just such an odd choice to me.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. As well.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Uh, because we know that Albert definitely did not have
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: a say in that, you know, uh, but here's the thing,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the town in Illinois where Albert is buried, they remember
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: him today. You can go to Sonneman, Illinois, and you
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: will see U.S. and Irish flags flying side by side
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: at the home of Albert D.J.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Cashier. Very modest one-bedroom home that you can, I.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Believe, tour. The mayor will also give you a tour.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: It makes me, I don't know, it's kind of heartwarming
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: to think that you can go to this small town
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: and you can call up the mayor and they'll say, okay,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I'll take you over to the house. I'll, you know,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I'll even walk you to the grave. It's, it's heartwarming
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to me that you can literally call up the mayor
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: of the town and they'll take you on a tour.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: That's pretty neat.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: It is pretty neat. And I have to be honest,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I was unaware of this story, but clearly some people
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: were because there is in fact a Broadway musical or
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: a Broadway style musical about the life of Albert Cashier
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: that came out in 2017. And, They got pretty great
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: reviews and played at the stage 773 in Chicago. Haven't
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: heard anything about a Broadway run, but I'd be very
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: interested in seeing this. It's called The Civility of Albert
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Cashier by J. Paul Deretani, and the score is by
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Joe Stevens and Keaton Wooden. And here's a little blurb
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: from one of the cast members by the name of
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Delia Kropp. Quote, in so many ways, Albert's story is
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: a true American one, a soldier who served their country
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: and wanted nothing more and personal liberty to live life
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: as they wish to.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Which, when you put it that way, how much more
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: American can you get? What else do you want? That's
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: personal freedom, right? And even though the practice of the
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: law doesn't adhere to the letter of the law near
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: as often as I think we would all like, it
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is inspirational. It doesn't matter who you are. You should
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: be inspired by this. As we mentioned earlier, Albert Cashier
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: was not the only person in this situation. And there
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: is an important distinction to make here. More than 250
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Civil War soldiers were assigned female at birth. Most of
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: those soldiers are assumed by historians today to have been
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: cisgender women in disguise for the purpose of getting around
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: army regulations.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Like Mulan.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Like Mulan. So some would fight to be close to
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: their significant other or their spouse. Some were straight up
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: trying to escape slavery.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Which, of course.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Who could blame them? And so that's that's sort of
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the point we made earlier, where it's like the conditions
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: that would maybe cause someone to look at military service
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: as a better alternative to the life they were leading before.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Those previous conditions had to be pretty rough. Slavery would
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: certainly be one of them. Abject poverty, things like that,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: an abusive relationship or home situation, you know, would make
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: one seek out any alternative. And the army was certainly
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: one of those.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And while Albert Cashier. was a trans man, a trans
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: soldier fighting in the Civil War. This story doesn't stop here.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Christine Jorgensen is actually the first American trans woman who
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: was widely known for having a sex reassignment surgery. And
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: this goes back a little bit farther, right, Noel?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, call the cashier story a precedent, if
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: you will, or just call it kind of a spiritual successor.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: But Jorgensen, who was in the Army in 1945, and she–
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: during that time, she learned about the possibility of getting
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: sexual reassignment surgery. And she started to get that process
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: underway in Denmark in 1951. And when she came back
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to the U.S. in the early 1950s, it became kind
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: of a pretty hot-button story when the New York Daily
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: News reported it with the headline, XGI Becomes Blonde Bombshell.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: she documented her life extensively. She became a huge figure
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: in the trans community, early days of the trans community
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: and was, you know, made appearances on talk shows. She
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: toured college campuses, talk about her transition and her life
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: living as a trans woman. She became an actress, a
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: nightclub performer, and she was very, very sharp witted. And
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: she passed away in 1989. And she referred to her,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: impact on the sexual revolution as having given it a
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: good swift kick in the pants to kind of kickstart it.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: And there's already been an indie movie made about Jorgensen.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And also additionally, Edward Glenn or Glenda definitely tried to,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: let's say, take inspiration from Christine Jorgensen's story But these
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: stories are important to remember. And we also want to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that the struggle, the search for validation, recognition of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: your own identity and the right to live as you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: wish is a fundamental part of being a human being.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: So thankfully, Albert Cashier, despite the social climate and discrimination
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: of the time, was able to get the recognition he deserved.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: We still have a long way to go and we
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: have to wonder what future historians will say about these
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: are modern days.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man. Sure seems like we're living in
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: a time where things like this are much more mainstream
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: and much more accepted. And like my kid is grown
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: up being completely comfortable with the idea of trans people.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: She has several in her class and she is just like,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: it's basically the new normal. And I think that's an
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: amazing place for us to be, given how far we've come. Agreed.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Greed, thank you so much for tuning in today. We
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: hope that you enjoyed this exploration of Albert's life. And
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: we would like to hear from you. What are some
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: other amazing and inspirational stories of individuals in times of conflict?
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be restricted to the Civil War
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: here in the United States. Let us know. We are
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: all ears, or eyes rather, because we'll probably be reading
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: what you send to us. You can email us directly.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: We are ridiculous at iheartradio.com. You can also find our
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet our favorite
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: part of the show. The three of us are always
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: talking about you off air, your fellow listeners.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can also check me and Ben out individually
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: on Instagram. I've got an account under HowNowNoelBrown, where you
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: can just catch me doing, you know, the things I
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: do day to day, which apparently includes getting kicked in
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: the shins by little kids.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: And until I get black bagged and disappeared for my
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: various misadventures, you can find me at Ben Bolin on Instagram.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much to our super producer, Casey Labouche-Peggram. Thanks
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: to our research associates, Ryan Barish and Gabe Luzio.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, big thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Christopher Hustiotis here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland looming large in
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: the world of quiz-related supervillainy. And thanks to you, Ben,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: for being a friend and a confidant down that road
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and back again and all that.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Noel.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: See you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows.