Latest / Behind The Village Podcast / The Horror Movie Formula That Explains Our Fear of Death | Lauren Andrew

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The Horror Movie Formula That Explains Our Fear of Death | Lauren Andrew · Behind The Village Podcast

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You're listening to the Behind the Village podcast,
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where we invite you to join us on a journey to
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understand how to live a life worth living. Our
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guest today is Lauren Andrew, co -founder of
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Awake. We've had Lauren on our podcast before,
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where we dove into what Awake is and their work
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in creating sustainable cremation options that
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allow us to return to the earth more naturally
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and sustainably. This time around, our conversation
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goes somewhere more personal. Fear, uncertainty,
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and how we relate to death. We get into death
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cafes, grief, and our experiences with death
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that shape us. So talk to me about your thoughts
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on fear and how to live a more meaningful life.
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It's funny, I think that... I've used this term
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a million times and I'm sure everyone else in
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the universe has heard, oh, you know, a fear
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of the unknown. I've started using intolerance
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of uncertainty. I don't know if that's because
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I've realized that lately I am intolerant to
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a bunch of food items. It's almost easier to
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think of it in those terms where it's as people,
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as a whole, I feel like more often than not,
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we're very... intolerant of uncertainty or the
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things that we don't know or the things that
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we don't understand. So if we stay in that state
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of uncertainty or actually not even the state
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of uncertainty, it's good to be in the state
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of uncertainty. It's not good to be intolerant
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or fearful of the state of uncertainty. So if
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we continue to stay and sit in that state of
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anxiousness and unease when it comes to things
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specifically related to death, the unpredictability
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of that is what we end up latching onto and then
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not find the strength or resourcefulness and
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within ourselves to just find answers to those
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things. And I think that's the biggest piece.
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I was doing some Googling about horror movies,
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which is what I started thinking about after
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our last conversation was that truly, you know,
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Fear and love, in my mind, if you can drill everything
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down to it, what we do, our actions and how we
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feel are kind of directly related to those two
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things if you wanted to make it really simple.
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And when you love something, it's because you've
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experienced it and it's something that brings
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you that comfort and that peace. Whereas fear
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is all because of the things that we are uncertain
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of, which again, make us feel like we would rather
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be intolerant to it because we just rather pretend
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that it doesn't exist. So I was trying to think
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of what's the best way for me to explain this.
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And it was like horror movies. I remember being
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on the airplane just before we had our last conversation.
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And I suck at watching anything that is a horror
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movie or a thriller because I am constantly tense
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the whole time. And here I'm in an airplane and
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people could probably tell without seeing my
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screen when I'm watching because I'm so uncomfortable
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with like, I know at some point something's going
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to happen, but that's. in my head, I was like,
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it's formulaic. Like we wouldn't have horror
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movies and thrillers if there wasn't a formula
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that these writers and producers and directors
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were using, because that's the whole point. The
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whole point is to make you feel this extremely
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uneasy suspense for an hour and a half to two
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hours, which is insane, right? Like we choose
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to put ourselves into that spot. So I did some
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Googling and I found a couple ways that directors
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and writers actually use to help them write the
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scripts for horror and thriller movies and there's
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one that i thought was really interesting they
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call it the mathematical formula for fear so
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i'm going to read this just so i don't get it
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wrong but they say that like fear or horror which
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in my mind i'm like this is or how we feel about
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death. So our amount of fear around death equals
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the formidability and unpredictability and the
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power that the villain has, or that, you know,
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this concept of death has, plus environmental
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constraints, such as how trapped or isolated
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or disadvantaged you feel as the main character,
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divided by the strength and resourcefulness of
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the main character or who you are, times how
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long you're forced to endure that suspense. So
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truly, it's like when you look at all of these
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little pieces, it is a mathematical equation.
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If you're able to remove the unpredictability
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of fear, the power that that has on you is less.
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If you are able to work with the environmental
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constraints about how trapped or isolated or
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disadvantaged you are when it comes to dealing
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with death throughout your life, whether that's
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number one, ensuring that you have a community
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that you can talk to, which I think is a big
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thing that removes the isolation. Trapped or
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disadvantaged when it comes to the whole conversation
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around pre -planning, like how much of these
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unknown. pieces of the checklist that you actually
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need to check off can be looked at and decided
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upon with a clear mind outside of the suspense
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of actually dealing with a death at any given
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time. So if you're able to adjust all these variables,
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truly how you feel about death will be less of
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a fear horror story and hopefully more of like
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a romantic comedy at some point if you really
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do the work right. much easier to think of how
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we feel about death in relation to this formula
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around fear and how all of these decisions that
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we make in life, if you're going to change jobs,
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if you're deciding to have children, if you think
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you're going to get up and move, it's the same
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thing. You're constantly weighing these pros
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and cons lists. And in any normal circumstance,
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I say normal, death is very normal. But to other
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people, the conversation about it is not. But
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any other large decision you make, such as purchasing
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a house or deciding to have children or where
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you're going to go on vacation or spend all this
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money, you make your lists and the things that
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you don't know about, you do more research on.
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I don't understand how we just don't take that
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same lens into the entire conversation surrounding
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death. It's true. And it's so fascinating, because
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like, as you're, you were talking about the formula,
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I could see exactly where the parallel was. And
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I was like, Oh, my God, you're right. Like, and
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I look at and, you know, like, death is normal.
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It's everywhere. And I know people that have
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been through different varying degrees of death
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within their lives or with people they know,
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and, you know, working through those tough moments,
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and then thinking about how how they've moved
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through that you know because they weren't necessarily
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the ones going through it but how it affected
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them and how it was for them before and then
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after as well and so anyway i don't know where
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i'm going with it but no it's cyclical you can
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just find ways that it connects to every aspect
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of your life death is a part of life it is all
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cyclical and like those things like you said
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there's certain people that you know or the different
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um people in your life that have experienced
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deaths at different degrees, ones that they knew
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were coming, ones that were a surprise, ones
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that were a little more traumatic. If you go
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back and think about all those people, the ones
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who have experienced more death are usually the
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ones that are a little bit easier to talk to
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about it because that is if they've had the moment
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to kind of reflect back on those feelings too.
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But it's the ones that have experienced it more
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or have had to hold the hands of their friends
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who have had to experience it or hold the hands
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of their family members who have had to experience
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it. The people that are most afraid are the ones
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that have not had to deal with any component
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of death at all besides potentially just sitting
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at a service and then going home, right? So 100%.
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Yeah. I wonder too if it's a little bit of that
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black and white thinking because if you open
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yourself up to... to death and interacting with
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it. Most people don't know when or how. So there's
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that, you know, that question mark, but by acknowledging
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it, it almost comes off as like, why would I
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go through all the good things just to end up
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that way in the end? You know what I mean? But
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I think accepting that duality is very interesting.
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Yeah. And I think that the acceptance piece,
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it comes at different times for everybody. And
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I think the acceptance of death is an interesting
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concept because I don't if someone asked me,
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oh, so you've obviously accepted like, yeah,
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I accept it's an inevitability. Like I think
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that's if to say that it's I don't accept that
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is to mean that there's fundamentally something
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wrong with my thinking. But I think it's like
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you said, it's that difference between acceptance
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and then comfortability. So like everyone should
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get to a point where you have to accept that
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death is an inevitability. And then how can I
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make myself more comfortable? with the fact that
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it is an inevitability. And oddly enough, yesterday,
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my co -founder and I went to an opening of a
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natural burial section of a cemetery in Guelph.
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It was Taylor's Meadow in Guelph. an absolutely
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um the wettest day that we've had probably this
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year in the middle of a cemetery in a natural
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area so a lot of it's like not as um groomed
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as a traditional cemetery because it's for those
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who are very interested in being laid to rest
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in the most natural state possible so it's very
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sustainable and when i was driving there because
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it's like a two -hour drive from our house i'm
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like i wonder how many people are really going
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to show up to this it's like such bad weather
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The tent that they had there was packed. People
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were standing out on the grass in their umbrellas.
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And here I was thinking, oh, wow, these are just
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like what an amazing group of people who are
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so involved with their community and forward
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thinking and here to talk about how excited they
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are that there's a green burial option and all
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these things. And then I had an hour of being
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able to talk to all the people who actually came
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to the opening that day. And half of them said
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that they were forced to come there with a friend.
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And half of them said that they really didn't
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want to come because the whole idea of planning
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for their own death was terrifying. And then
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they were able to talk to different suppliers
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like ourselves at Awake or funeral directors
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that were there. And they were able to look at
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caskets and walk the grounds and talk to the
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cemetery operations team. And they're like, wow,
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I actually cannot believe how much better I feel
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about everything. Forcing myself to sit here
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and do nothing other than listen to people talk
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about all different aspects of how they interact
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with families during a death was great because
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I just feel so much better. And then I asked,
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well, why do you feel better about it? And they're
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like, these are just things I didn't know. And
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that was the pattern. I just didn't know this,
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didn't know that, didn't know there were options,
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didn't know, didn't know, didn't know, didn't
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know. So the fact that they left there learning
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something new. already alleviated some of the
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fears that they had surrounding death as a whole.
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So it's like you said, people have no problems.
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My husband is obsessed with watching. YouTube
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videos of people who are like training for their
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first marathon or training for their first Ironman.
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And they always talk about, you know, you got
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to be uncomfortable. You got to get out of your
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box. And all these people have no problem talking
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about all these things, which I think are true
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is that you cannot grow unless you're uncomfortable.
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I firmly believe that that's true. People have
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no problem talking about that when it comes to,
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you know, climbing Mount Everest or running 100
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miles in the Moab desert. But when it comes to
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death, it's the exact same concept, just a very
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different theme. So I think if people were able
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to just even tiptoe their way into doing a Google
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search on something, it would make them more,
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like you've said, curious and less afraid. Let's
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touch on the idea because I think it's a similar
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vein, the idea of a death cafe and what that
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is. Yeah. So death cafes in its most simple form
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is a space where people can come together to
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discuss and learn and be in the same space as
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other people who are there to. talk about death
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or learn about death or just be with people who
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you feel safe grieving if you have just experienced
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a recent death. More often than not, there are
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certain people there from different areas, different
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professions that touch death. So whether that
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is funeral directors, people like myself who
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are more of like a celebration role or have work
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in different services or supplies that have to
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do with death care or people that are in hospice
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or people that have worked with grief counseling
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and things like that. So really the spectrum
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of different. professions that this hits is very
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large and it can be a very large group of people
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or a very small group of people but the whole
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point is to one remove that isolation piece for
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people so it's just creating a space where people
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can get together and be as involved as they choose
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to be they could be the person sitting in the
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corner doing nothing but listening they could
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be the person asking a million questions like
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there's there's a massive scale in between And
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so it's the number one, providing a community
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for people to be able to learn more in a space
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that they feel safe in. And number two, it's
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allowing the whole concept of a death cafe and
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more people, number one, knowing what that is
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and more of them happening means that there's
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just more of us talking about death. And it's
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removing that death denial piece that I feel
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like is still pretty prevalent, especially in
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North American culture. Canadian culture, at
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least. So that is what I had hoped to bring to
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our community. I've felt more of a need for it
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with every single celebration of life that I
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have been a part of, or every family that Amanda
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and I had awake have received an email or phone
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call from regarding a lost loved one and how
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they can commemorate and celebrate their lives.
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So I think that Number one, it's amazing that
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there are people that are already reaching out
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to figure out how can I do things. But I think
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that there's a way bigger set of the population
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that doesn't realize that there are different
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ways to do things. So number one, I think most
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importantly, like I've mentioned, it's creating
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a space to remove isolation away from people
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when it comes to discussing and dealing with
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death, whether that's future planning or you're
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getting over a death that had just recently happened
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or something that's still weighing on you that's
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happened years ago. And then just realizing that
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there's connectors in our community that can
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help you through all of these pieces. I think
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that's such an important piece. And I know somebody
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who is currently battling a terminal illness
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and has been very open about their process and
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their ups and their downs and everything that's
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happening. And, you know, even now, like the
15:37
amount of sleep as an example. which is increasing
15:40
for them. And just the whole process has been
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so fascinating. And I've been following along
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because I know this person fairly well. And I
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look at the comments just to see how people are
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interacting with them being so open about it.
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And it's incredible how many people have just
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been saying, like, thank you for sharing. Or,
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you know, I'm so glad that you're being open
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about this. I think people are very nervous to
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step into that space. But with people that are
16:06
open, it welcomes them in. which I think is important.
16:09
100%. It's almost as if it gives them permission,
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which is so funny. But when somebody else is
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able to speak about it or is open about it and,
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you know, whether that's on social media or,
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you know, at least I try my best to be open about
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it in my everyday life, I feel that it has given
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permission to other people in my life to be like,
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oh, okay. I guess Lauren's creating a safe space
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for me to also either ask questions or start
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talking about it myself, but you're right. It's
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very difficult, especially for people that have
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come from families that just don't talk about
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it. So like if you were raised in a family where
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you don't talk about death until you're at the
16:46
church and you're sitting there in the pews watching
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a actual ceremony happen, and then you don't
16:53
talk about it again, that's just how you assume
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everybody else deals with it. So until you've
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been able to experience other people talking
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about it, then you finally give yourself permission
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to think about it even before you type in your
17:06
comment or to ask a question. I always wanted
17:08
to write a book. I had no idea what it was going
17:09
to be about. I figured that I had to like climb
17:11
Mount Everest to have something really cool to
17:12
talk about. But what I ended up doing is I actually
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started reflecting back on every single death
17:17
that touched me in my life. And the first one
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was my grandfather when he passed away and I
17:24
was seven or eight years old. And I never really
17:28
thought of it as traumatic, like you said. And
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I know people like that word, buzzword, traumatic,
17:33
everyone and their trauma. But when I look back
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to how, and I can actually, anytime I think about
17:40
any death that has occurred to me, I can almost
17:43
close my eyes and feel like I was back there
17:45
again, which is really crazy. Like I can smell
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what everything smelled like. I can remember
17:50
what we ate. I remember how the room felt. all
17:54
of my senses are heightened. And I don't know
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if that's the same with other people when they
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go back and if they ever take the moment to kind
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of go back to those places. But the memories
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were super, super strong. And I was seven or
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eight. And I just remember simple things such
18:11
as looking at my grandfather in the open casket.
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So number one, being seven or eight years old,
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having no, warning isn't the right word, but
18:21
no conversation or lead up for the first seven
18:25
to eight years of my life regarding these are
18:27
the traditions and these are why we do them and
18:29
all of those things. So just to see my grandfather's
18:33
body presented the way that it was for the very
18:35
first time, traumatizing. Also one of those pieces
18:38
where it didn't look like him. Like I have vivid
18:41
memories of my mother so upset because of whoever
18:44
dressed him or did his makeup. they weren't happy
18:49
with right so there was all those pieces and
18:52
I just remember the incense because with Chinese
18:55
funerals there's like incense everywhere and
18:58
they're burning we call it hell money which is
19:00
basically joss paper so like the whole room is
19:02
just filled with smoke you're crying whether
19:05
you're upset or it's because of the smoke from
19:08
the incense and the burning joss paper right
19:10
so I just remember my eyes being like beet red
19:14
and itchy and just tearing up the whole day And
19:17
I remember the whole time just being confused
19:21
because no one talked to me about the why these
19:25
things are happening or why I'm seeing my gong
19:30
gong for the very first time wearing a suit.
19:32
You know what I mean? I'm used to him wearing
19:35
a wife beater tank top underneath a plaid shirt
19:39
with his Blue Jays hat on. So to see him in a
19:42
suit lying in an open castle, all these things
19:44
just made no sense. Upon reflection, I realized
19:49
a lot of these things are steeped in tradition.
19:51
And I also realized a lot of those things they
19:54
didn't think they had options with. You know,
19:57
if I go back in time, would I ever choose an
19:58
open casket for myself? No. But if I did, I better
20:01
be wearing like my favorite outfit. You know
20:04
what I mean? Like little things to like a nod
20:06
to who that person was, because you almost are
20:09
watching yourself from above in those situations
20:12
as a kid, because none of that makes sense to
20:15
you. The eulogy, although it was beautiful, did
20:18
not talk about like how funny my grandfather
20:20
was or like the stories about how he used to
20:23
take us to the candy store. He is very broken
20:25
English. So all of the memories that I have of
20:28
him were like calling me down the stairs, pronouncing
20:32
my name very wrong and walking me to the candy
20:35
store and then getting ice cream on the way home
20:37
and like all these funny things that he would
20:39
say and do. But here we are, we're just like
20:40
regurgitating his resume. Right. He came here.
20:44
He did all these great things. He provided a
20:46
wonderful life for the family. We went to the
20:48
cemetery when we put him in the ground. That's
20:50
it. So I think everything starts back with kids.
20:54
And I think that if we are able to find ways
20:59
to bring that death conversation into our lives
21:03
at a much younger age. all of this becomes easier.
21:07
What I found interesting was the next death that
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I reflected on and remembered happened maybe
21:14
a year after my grandfather died. And it was
21:16
the death of my sister's hamster, which sounds
21:18
super random, but my sister adored this hamster.
21:22
It was her life. And although she was at my grandfather's
21:26
funeral, this affected her way more. Whereas
21:30
I can remember fully rolling my eyes about the
21:32
whole situation because she forced us to go into
21:34
the backyard and do a service for her, for her
21:37
hamster, Daisy. And I remember how I felt then.
21:42
And then upon reflection, I feel completely different
21:44
about it now because truly my sister, she was
21:47
the first one to do it her way. So I remember
21:50
she had like a shoe box and she blinged it out
21:52
with me. I don't know if you, when you were little,
21:54
like we blinged everything out. Everything had
21:56
like the dazzled fake crystals on it. She wrote
21:59
Daisy's name in like 17 different color gel pens.
22:02
She made my parents buy daisies. So where we
22:05
buried Daisy, we planted daisies. And then she
22:08
made us all say a story about Daisy around her
22:12
little shoe box in the backyard. And I remember
22:16
at the time thinking how flipping ridiculous
22:20
that was. And now I'm like, my sister doesn't
22:22
realize how beautiful that was because she did
22:24
it exactly the way that she wanted to do it.
22:26
I think we, number one, need to learn more from
22:28
children. Yeah. They're not dumb. No. They're
22:32
so connected to everything that goes on and they
22:36
understand. And I think they reflect more on
22:40
things than we do as adults because we have so
22:42
many to -dos to do in a day that we don't spend
22:45
the time to actually think about how things make
22:47
us feel. So, and it's the same thing with my
22:50
children going through deaths of pets, going,
22:53
understanding the deaths of other people in their
22:56
friends' lives, like mothers and grandfathers
22:58
and all of those things, having an open conversation
23:02
with them about it will just mean that they grow
23:04
up already levels above where the rest of us
23:07
are currently today when it comes to talking
23:10
and discussing and living with death. people
23:19
treat it but you know it's for me my experience
23:22
is you get to feel it for a certain amount of
23:24
time and then it's time to move on you know and
23:27
that's been what i've always encountered from
23:30
other people and so it's really nice to see people
23:34
still engage with those that have passed or that
23:37
are or just death in general and be more open
23:40
to talking about it as opposed to just shutting
23:42
it out completely Absolutely. And like, we're
23:45
done now. And then it's time to move on. You're
23:47
like, oh, okay. One of my favorite ways to reference
23:51
grief is that grief is like a rock that you carry
23:54
in your pocket. And that rock stays the same
23:56
size for the rest of your life. You just become
23:58
stronger, right? So I think that what we have
24:01
to realize is that as good humans, we should
24:05
be moving through the rest of our lives. If we
24:07
have an important person or pet that we have
24:10
lost, it would be silly for us to not. Think
24:13
about them throughout your day, throughout your
24:15
year, and be constantly holding on to what that
24:18
grief is. But how you're able to manage that
24:20
grief should change from the time that that death
24:25
occurred to the time that your death occurs.
24:28
And I think that it's more difficult and that
24:30
rock still feels really heavy for people who
24:32
don't feel like they can talk about it with other
24:34
people. So like you said, you feel like, okay,
24:36
it's been a month now. I should probably maybe
24:38
stop bringing this person up at work so people
24:40
stop giving me those weird looks about it. Or
24:43
you are finding ways to still actively have that
24:49
person participate in your life in a way that
24:52
you're comfortable with. And again, I've talked
24:55
to you about this, talked to multiple people
24:56
at this, but just even having the cabinet in
24:58
our house that has everyone's photos on it. And
25:01
anytime that those people cross our minds, whether
25:03
it's. their death date, whether it's their birthday,
25:06
whether we're celebrating something cool. I got
25:08
a, I got a promotion at work. We're lighting
25:10
that candle and they're enjoying that with us.
25:12
And I know that maybe that feels not or authentic
25:16
to some and that's fine, but you can find your
25:18
own thing that feels authentic to you. And that's,
25:21
that's great. Like I know plenty of men specifically
25:25
when they're thinking about a friend who's passed,
25:28
like they go to the. bar and watch the game and
25:32
that's how they feel connected to that person
25:34
because that's what they used to do together
25:35
they don't openly state say that to anybody else
25:38
but people have said that to me because i'm the
25:43
death lady and so we're talking about it but
25:45
it is funny where it's like you know where when
25:47
they go on a jog in that specific area or they
25:50
go to that same snowmobile um motel that's an
25:53
absolute hole every single year you're like why
25:56
do you keep going there it's like well i used
25:57
to go there with so -and -so So you're already
26:00
doing these things, but it's okay to verbalize
26:03
them. It's okay to tell other people that that's
26:05
why you're doing them. I think it's really special.
26:07
And then you're going to allow more people in
26:09
your space and your community to also feel like
26:12
they're now they understand you better. And connecting
26:15
it back again to having that community, to having
26:17
those people around you, not only to support
26:19
you through those transitions, if you're interacting
26:21
with different aspects of death, but I think,
26:24
yeah, to help you through grief and to just.
26:27
Talking about things just makes it better. Doesn't
26:29
it? I always feel lighter after I have these
26:31
conversations with you. I just think it's nice.
26:34
And sometimes I'm like, you know what? Maybe
26:35
I don't talk because I always talk about my,
26:37
like my Popo, my grandmother who passed away.
26:40
I can never talk about my Gong Gong. And I used
26:43
to think maybe it's because he died so long ago.
26:46
Like, who am I to bring that up? But no, like
26:48
all of these people had a place in my life and
26:50
had affected and into some way molded some part
26:54
of who I am today. And it's okay for me to talk
26:57
about them. And if you're weirded out by it,
26:59
I think that's a you thing. Yeah, not a me thing.
27:02
And hopefully one day. Hopefully one day it doesn't
27:06
weird you out, right? Exactly. We need to find
27:10
a way to remove fear in our lives in order to
27:13
deal with the things that we find difficult or
27:15
complicated. And that is increasingly more truthful
27:21
when it comes to the conversation surrounding
27:23
death in and of itself. I think what people need
27:26
to be cognizant of, and this hopefully isn't
27:30
me pushing more fear to people, but we are at
27:34
a point in the timeline where we as a society
27:38
will be experiencing more death than we ever
27:42
have, right? So that is just the crux of the
27:48
matter. That is just facts. The boomers are aging.
27:53
And the boomers will be dying alongside, you
27:57
know, other different scenarios with different
28:00
people that are much younger in our lives. So
28:02
I think that in just knowing that this is the
28:06
case, I think that there's a lot of us who just
28:09
push this off to, I'll deal with it later. I'll
28:12
deal with it when I need to. Or those that are
28:15
lucky enough to have certain people in their
28:17
lives that usually deal with this, like the firstborn
28:19
daughter or like, you know, those things. We
28:23
should, to some degree, take some time to think
28:27
about what that means to us and whether that's
28:29
talking to our parents and our aunts and uncles
28:33
and the older ones in our lives who'd make sure
28:35
that they have their wills put together. That
28:37
in and of itself, it doesn't need to even go
28:39
farther than that. Just say, are your wills done?
28:41
Have you looked at them in the last five years?
28:43
Great. And have a conversation with them more
28:46
about what they've enjoyed the most in their
28:49
lives and take this time to ask deeper. questions
28:52
about the ones that you love so that when you're
28:55
sitting there and someone's asking you how you
28:57
want to memorialize them or commemorate them
28:59
or celebrate them, you can go back to that conversation
29:04
that you just had last year where it's like,
29:05
well, you know, they really, really love the
29:07
cottage. And they said that if they could just
29:09
be anywhere in the world, it would just be at
29:11
the cottage and we'd have a bonfire and we'd
29:13
be drinking Miller Lite, right? So if you just
29:17
take a minute now, a minute today, a minute next
29:21
week, A minute and a month from now, you don't
29:23
have to feel like you're burdened by a checklist
29:26
right in front of you. But if you're able to
29:28
do certain things throughout the next little
29:30
while, I promise you, you will feel better about
29:33
everything when it happens. And I think that's
29:36
the only piece that I want to leave for people
29:39
is that if, again, we go back to that mathematical
29:43
formula for fear, if we're able to adjust some
29:48
of the components of that algorithm. So that
29:52
there's less unknowns and more known variables.
29:55
I promise you when you have to go through a death
30:00
at need, you will be much more prepared from
30:03
like an emotional standpoint, as well as like
30:06
knowing exactly what needs to be done. And that
30:10
there are people in this community that have
30:13
expertise far beyond my own. And when people
30:16
call and ask me for certain things, this is when
30:18
I pick up the, I can tell you who to call. Right.
30:22
That we exist out there. And the hope is through
30:25
this series of conversations that you're changing
30:29
people. This is where we're inundating them with
30:31
the information, the knowledge and the conversation
30:33
that hopefully people are feeling way different
30:36
about the fact that they're knowing that there
30:40
are options and that it's okay to feel yucky
30:42
about it because that's kind of how we were all
30:44
raised to feel. Unless we were lucky enough to
30:48
have different traditions and. in our own household
30:52
growing up. But now we can decide what happens
30:55
in our household. So I think that's the big important
30:58
thing. Yeah. Oh, it's huge. It's huge. And one
31:02
question I wanted to ask that I haven't yet,
31:04
but is there a question about death that you
31:07
still sit with that you haven't found an answer
31:09
to? Yeah, I think not so much about the components
31:16
of death and dying from like, Again, everyone's
31:21
going to hate, you can probably start a bingo
31:23
with how many times I said checklist about like
31:24
what happens when I die in terms of my actual
31:30
physical body and what my family is going to
31:31
have to deal with and all of those things. I'm
31:33
very much abreast and knowledgeable about those
31:37
components. But of course, I think like everybody
31:39
else from like a spiritual perspective, you're
31:41
constantly, you always wonder like what actually
31:44
happens. And I think that that's the one piece
31:46
that none of us will be able to. give people
31:50
clarity on. And I think that that's the one beautiful
31:52
thing about certain religions and spiritual traditions
31:58
and what you think of as an individual and what
32:03
you hope for upon your passing. And I think that
32:05
that's one of those things where it used to actually
32:08
make me feel sick. Like I was going to throw
32:10
up when I used to think about what happens when
32:13
I close my eyes and that's it and don't wake
32:14
up again. But I found that in knowing more about
32:19
different pieces of planning for that process
32:22
in terms of like, do I want full body burial
32:24
or cremation? Like even things that simple and
32:26
making those decisions, I actually am at peace
32:31
with knowing that one day life as I know it now
32:35
will cease to exist. And I know that sounds really
32:39
funny and, and honestly, truly, if I was having
32:42
this conversation like five years ago, I would
32:44
still feel sick to my stomach. Like even I used
32:45
to leave funerals feeling sick to my stomach
32:47
because you just like, the unknown piece, but
32:50
I have so many known variables now. Now I can
32:53
actually sit and think about things and like,
32:55
hmm, I wonder what that's going to be like. It
32:57
is a more curious state and a more interested
33:00
state than it is a fearful state because so many
33:04
of the things I already know about. So I think
33:09
the only real question for me is here's hoping
33:11
I still have lots of healthy years ahead of me.
33:15
But the death profession there's so many things
33:19
that are going to come about over the next few
33:21
years that will hopefully make the entire profession
33:25
and just expand options for people even even
33:28
further hopefully there's way more in terms of
33:31
sustainability and ways that our final impact
33:34
on the earth is minimalized and different ways
33:37
that you can go back to nature or just different
33:40
ways that connect back with how people want to
33:42
be remembered. I think it's really exciting that
33:45
all of these new companies and professionals
33:48
are coming up with ways that they don't see how
33:50
it suits them. The things that are currently
33:52
out there don't connect back with them. So they're
33:54
creating those things. And that's what Awake
33:56
was. We didn't know, we couldn't find a way that
33:58
we could return to nature from a cremation state
34:01
that benefited the earth instead of poisoning
34:05
it. So we created it. And I think that we live
34:09
with so many incredibly smart human beings and
34:13
that are very connected with what I think if
34:15
you work in death, you have to have some type
34:17
of moral ethics piece that is the backbone to
34:22
everything that you do. So that when these new
34:25
options and opportunities come out into our universe,
34:29
maybe that will help people find more peace.
34:36
I always enjoy my conversations with Lauren.
34:39
There's something about the way she talks about
34:41
death, not as something you have to brace for,
34:44
but as something we can actually get curious
34:45
about. Everything we touch on always circles
34:48
back to the same thing. The less we talk about
34:51
death, the more power it holds over us. I hope
34:54
this conversation gives you a little more room
34:56
to sit with your own uncertainty and maybe even
34:59
talk about it out loud. Thank you for listening
35:02
to the entire episode. All the links and info
35:04
you heard in this conversation will be featured
35:06
in the show notes on our website. If you'd like
35:08
to know more about anything we mentioned in this
35:10
episode, make sure to check villagermagazine
35:12
.ca slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode,
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so you never miss an episode. Thanks again, and
35:29
I'll see you next time.