Latest / Love Conquers Fear / #25: Christ Consciousness, Healing, and Human Evolution with Patrick Gentempo

Transcript

#25: Christ Consciousness, Healing, and Human Evolution with Patrick Gentempo · Love Conquers Fear

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This particular time humanity where polarization is reaching a
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fever pitch and a lot of people get pretty extreme thing and
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these are existential threats are are happening right now
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because of our lack of ability to get along, if you will.
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And is it a coincidence that psychedelics are kind of showing
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up at this time with this particular dynamic going on I.
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Don't believe in coincidences. Love conquers.
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Fear is about We have the agency we need to manifest in ourselves
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the ability to allow love to conquer our own fears.
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Then we can manifest that in others.
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Then we can lift about humanity. There's no evidence for that.
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And I ask. A question that really bugs
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them. I'll say, what will you accept
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this evidence? They said, well, there's no
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randomized control of clinical trials.
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The fundamental nature of creation is not love, it's
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beauty. Love is what a human being
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experiences when the witnessing view journey space that you're
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entering is that sacred ground is to be visited, not lived in.
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Because a lot of people say, well, the medicine says this,
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The medicine says that. No, you're the medicine.
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There is a consciousness awakening underway and it's
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almost like Neo on the Matrix. We need to stop the bullets and
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just stop them in mid air. And then once you've done that
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inner work, which is really hard to do, we're for sure going to
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make it that. If everybody did that work, I'm
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100% certain that we make it to the age of abundance for all.
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Welcome back everybody to love conquers fear.
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I just got out of a really important discussion with a
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friend and I put the book Love is Letting Go of Fear by Jerry
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Jampolsky to work. So I want to give a shout out
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again to John Mackey, the founder and former CEO of Whole
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Foods prior to this acquisition by Amazon, for recommending that
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book to me. It's really been an incredible
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book. It's actually a derivative work
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of A Course of Miracles, and he's part of a study group in
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that he's going to be on the podcast and we'll be discussing
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that, and he's been studying it now for years.
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But this book, Love is Letting Go of Fear is a very short read,
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but it's incredibly profound read and it gives you a lot of
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tools to really open up your heart so that you can
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communicate in a place rooted deeply in love.
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I also have been recommending Into the Magic Shop quite a bit
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recently. That's by James Doty.
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He's actually goes by Jim. And as I mentioned on a prior
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episode, unfortunately he's passed away.
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He passed away in July. Shout out to you, Jim, and all
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the beautiful work that you put into this world.
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And I hope you're enjoying the beautiful soul life that you're
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having now in terms of crossed crossing over.
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But that book is so beautiful. I just can't quite describe how
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profound that book is in terms of really learning the hard
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lessons of how important it is to lead from the place of love.
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You know, when Jim forgot that in that book, that's where Jim
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had a really hard fall. And it really unpacks all of
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that. It's a hero's story.
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There's a path to redemption, but on Audible, that book is
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beautiful because you can literally hear his tears while
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he's reading parts of it. I mean, his life circumstance,
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the circumstances he was born into with an alcoholic dad who
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really beat his mom and all of the things that he had to go
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through to form who he became and what he ultimately ended up
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doing, including Co founding a center with the Dalai Lama is
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really quite incredible. So both of those books will move
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your heart a lot. I recommend them both on
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Audible. Love is Letting Go of Fear
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starts out because it's such a short book with about an hour
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and a half of just interview content between Jerry Jim Polsky
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and I don't know who the person actually interviewing him is,
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but probably someone that they hired for the publishing
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company. But really just unpacking the
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lessons and how he's applied those lessons.
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And then it goes into the book itself, which maybe is an hour
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and a half of content. So it's a great, great listen.
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A short one, but profound. Like many things.
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You know, when I read The Dao De Ching, that is a 1 1/2 hour
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listen. But to really understand the Dao
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and practice the Dow and walk the way takes an enormous amount
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of time. But you'll want to do it after
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you read it because you're reading one of the most sacred
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transmissions possible. And the Gita as well is only a 2
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1/2 hour long listen, but it's incredibly, incredibly profound.
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So pick those up. I've mentioned before the The
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Dao De Ching and the Bhagavad Gita are best translated by
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Stephen Mitchell. So I recommend him is the master
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spiritual translator for those texts.
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And there are many, many, I think there's hundreds of
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versions of the Gita in terms of the way they've been translated.
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But for those of those spoke to me very well.
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And I've talked with people that have read a lot of the many
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translations and Stephen Mitchell's of their favorite as
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well. So pick those up and I think
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they'll they'll move your heart as well, and you'll be able to
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put them into practice. So I'll let me go to my guest
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because I'm very honored to have one of my best friends,
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honestly, someone that I've known actually for a short
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period of time. But that hasn't changed the fact
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that we've become really, really close in a very short period of
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time. How you doing, Factory?
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Awesome. Yeah.
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Thank you. Yeah.
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It's so good to be here with. Great to be here.
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Yeah. And yeah, I I felt our
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connection instantaneously. Instantaneously right we've
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we've had been working together in prior lifetimes.
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It's really feels that way. Definitely.
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So there are so many things I want to ask you.
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I mean, there there's so much I have to learn from you and that
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people watching this or listening to this can learn from
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you. Let's start with Psychedelics
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Revealed because you really put a lot of heart and soul into
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that project. And it's a documentary series.
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I think there's 11 episodes, right?
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There were ten that were aired and then there was one that was
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not aired. Yeah.
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So let's start there. Like when did you start working
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on psychedelics revealed and, and, and and why And like
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ultimately what did you end up doing with that?
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So if you'd asked me, I'm a serial entrepreneur.
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So I've, I've been in different businesses over my career and
6:29
prior to 2017, if somebody said to me, you know, for next seven
6:34
years or so, your, your main career is going to be making
6:37
documentary film series, I would say they're nuts.
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I may have 0 background in for any filmmaking doing
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documentaries. I, I've appeared in a few as an
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expert on subjects that I happen to have an expertise in, usually
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in healthcare, you know, and, and that type of thing, but not
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not in other subjects. But I'd never created one, but
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I, it started as a passion project for the first series we
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made. We we're making a series of them
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starting in 2017 and I guess it was probably about 2020.
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I don't remember when the first idea of this came up, but
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psychedelics started coming out to the scene in a pretty strong
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way. This is this is before I think
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Michael Pollan came out with his book and and you know, it's.
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Sort of how to change your. Mind how to change your mind?
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Yeah. And that series came out, I
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think on Netflix. But we started to see when our
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group, you know, by friend group and peers that were around and
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others that wow, this is like a psychedelic renaissance that's
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going on right now. Fascinated by it, especially
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because, you know, I, I grew up in the, you know, 60s and 70s,
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right? I was born in 1959.
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So, you know, a lot of times people don't, you know, they
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don't think that I was actually there, but I really was.
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Well, I always tell you, you do not look your age at all.
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I don't. I mean, Deborah, you saw
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Deborah's reaction last night over at dinner.
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She's like, wait, hold on. How old are you?
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Yeah, yeah. That's the reaction I have.
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Yeah, so it's all the second Delok said back in the 70s got
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me. No, I'm kidding exactly.
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But I I can remember, you know, kind of first hand.
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I mean, I was very in 60s, I was still pretty young.
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But you know, Woodstock happened, you know, and I had
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older cousins, you know, that were there and, and I remember
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that whole scene and then it kind of went away.
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You know, the 80s was a little about a whole different thing.
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Well. There was the war on drugs.
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The war on drugs though, like. A pollen covers that super.
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Well, yeah, he did a great job on that actually.
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And and that was. Like a sledgehammer to the whole
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space, right. It's like, I think, I think the
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government was very worried about losing control.
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At least that's the way Michael Pollan portrays it.
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And how to change your mind. I I wasn't alive then, but but
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you know, just took a sledgehammer to say like stop,
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you know, all of them classified, including Ibogaine,
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which was like this miracle one which nobody would ever take it
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a party at all. That's right.
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And, and it was, you know, it's kind of a complex dynamic
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looking at the political aspects of it, Vietnam War, you know,
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there's all these things going on.
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And nobody who, for lack of a better term, who wakes up, you
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know, from a psychedelic experience and, and has a
9:12
different view of reality as a consequence of that experience
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is going to go shoot somebody somewhere in foreign land.
9:16
You know, it's and the government, you know, sort of
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looked at that and said, how are we going to control this and
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what is it going to do? And it, it really struck fear in
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the government. And as you said, pollen
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addresses it. There's a notebook called Chaos
9:28
and Remiss. I don't remember the author's
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name. And it was on Charles Manson.
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It was also on, you know, MK Ultra and the CIA and all these
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things were woven together. And it also gets into it.
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So if somebody has a particular interest in digging into, you
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know, more of the historical aspects of this, that's a place
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to go. We'll look it.
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Up and put it in the show now, yeah.
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That's yeah, terrific. And and they incidentally just
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made a documentary in that book too, which is on one of the
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streaming platforms. Yeah.
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So, so all of a sudden this started coming up and I was
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like, wow, this there's a story here.
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There's something, you know, to discover and and, you know, so
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my own personal experiences, which we can talk about.
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And if you notice, because you saw the, you saw the series.
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I never talk about any of my own personal exeriences with
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Sychedelics. I didn't mention if I actually
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ever had any exeriences because I, you know, when I'm the host
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and I'm taking people on this journey through this topic, I
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don't want to influence them, you know, by my experience, I
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want them to have their own. I want to, you know, my job is
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not to be the person being interviewed to share something.
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My job is to pull it out of other people.
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And you did such a beautiful job of that serious.
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Thank you. It's really they're they're
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always complimenting you in this series for for how good of a job
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you did it because you just yeah, you're just a beautiful
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person. And the way you interviewed
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them. Thank you.
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Yeah, I, I love. I mean, I got to tell you, you
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having that position and you know, I was the Co founder and
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CEO of that company and the host of the series.
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And what was beautiful about it is I got to pick topics I had an
10:57
interest in and talk to the, you know, the greatest experts in
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the world about them, ask them any question I want and learn.
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So it was like it was just an amazing experience to be able to
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do that work. Yeah.
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So we started on this thing saying, hey, let's go, let's go
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explore this because it seemed like a lot of chaos.
11:14
You know, there's a lot of different people.
11:15
You start hearing about weekend, you know, parties, ayahuasca
11:18
parties popping up in LA on weekends.
11:20
And then you also hear about Johns Hopkins psilocybin lab
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where they're taking it very academically and very seriously
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and then everything in between. So we felt like we wanted to go
11:31
and dig deep into the subject and and go in a pretty big tour
11:34
of this particular topic. And that's what that's what part
11:36
of the series. Yeah, you know, Ben Greenfield
11:38
sent me this really funny thing. You know, we're at a we're at a
11:41
wedding together. Yeah, recently we're both we're
11:43
both best men. And that that was the the most
11:46
beautiful divine wedding I wasn't recorded in my entire
11:49
life and cannot wait to to have brother Lincoln on this podcast
11:53
to give shout out to him. And really, and yes, the divine
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Union they have, I think's been sent me, you know, on the way
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back. He he's like, have you ever seen
12:03
this viral series about these two biohackers?
12:06
And it's like a male and female and they're having a first date.
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It's like, you know, this mock script and they're having a
12:13
first date. And she's like, and then on my
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975th Ayahuasca journey, it's like, which actually is very not
12:23
recommended. Oh, no, no, no.
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But. But there are those people
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there. Aren't those people?
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But they're just like poking fun at, you know, all the things
12:31
that they're doing from all the things they're shooting in their
12:35
bodies from Biohacker. It's really hilarious, made
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Deborah laugh out loud. Just the just the thought of it
12:40
so he can be there. So yeah, the actual things.
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I'll put a link to the video in the show notes, but honestly
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it's like the Ultimate Biohacker spoof video and only it could
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only come from Big Greenfield because he is Ultimate
12:53
Biohacker. Yeah, I've known Ben for years
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and. He's so he's fun, yeah.
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He's a lot of fun and he's, he's serious about it.
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And he's, he, he everything that he talks about, he tests himself
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first. He's, he's, yeah, he's pretty
13:08
out there in that way. In a good way, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Dave Asprey does the
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same thing, though. It's here in Austin and and it's
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a friend of mine and and yeah, these guys are kind of unafraid
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to test things. Oh, no.
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So they're, they're they're, you know, they talk about
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psychonauts and psychedelics and they're real biohacking knots.
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You know, they're, they're willing to try just about
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anything. Right, Right.
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Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's a, it's another thing
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that's evolved in the recent past, you know, this whole
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biohacking movement. Sure, not without also its own
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controversies. Yeah.
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But in the psychedelics film, getting in there and, and having
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a lot of these conversations, it's amazing to me that there's
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these beautiful souls that are showing up at this particular
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time in humanity where polarization is reaching a fever
13:56
pitch. And, you know, a lot of people
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get pretty extreme saying, hey, these are existential threats
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are, are happening right now because of our lack of, you
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know, ability to get along, if you will.
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And, and is it a coincidence that psychedelics are kind of
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showing up, you know, at this time with this particular
14:17
dynamic going on? And in that work, there's
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amazing people who are. Just you know myself on that.
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Well, go ahead. I don't believe in coincidences.
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Yeah. So, yeah.
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So no, it's right. Coincidence.
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Yeah. You live long enough.
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You begin to I at least, I think.
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Yeah, you begin to adopt that. Yeah.
14:37
You know, Einstein's famous quote about, you know, there's
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two ways to go through life, either as if everything is is a
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miracle or nothing is right. Yeah.
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And I think it's the same with the with what happens.
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It's either all purposeful or it's all random.
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You know, there's not really much in between.
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And I think that I'm with you. There's no coincidence here that
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this is showing up the time it is, but we also have free will,
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an agency. So so we get to decide in a
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sense. So I say we humans get to
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decide. Is this going to turn out to be
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something that's going to be very healing for humans, or is
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this something that's going to, you know, end up going off the
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track and and creating some pretty dark things?
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I mean, you know, it's it's really the meta thematic for the
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whole podcast, because Love Conquers fear is about we have
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the agency we need to manifest in ourselves the ability to
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allow love to conquer our own fears.
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Then we can manifest that in others.
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Then we can lift up humanity. That actually is the whole point
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of all the spiritual texts. They all have that common root.
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Yes. And then there's a kind of a a
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surrounding around them that that has a lot of dogma, some of
15:46
which is useful, some of which is not, and you kind of got to
15:49
bear it out for yourself. What is?
15:50
But the common root is really really.
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It is, it is. And what happens sometimes is
16:00
that somebody could hear a, a, a premise like love, conquer,
16:06
spear and they can say, oh, that's a nice thought or, Oh
16:11
yeah, you know, I kind of get it.
16:13
Or you can lean into it a lot further and start to really
16:16
understand what does that really mean?
16:18
Sure. What are the real implications?
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Why? Why might that be an important
16:22
thought as compared to a passing thought?
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And I think there are a lot of drive by spiritual, you know,
16:32
people who just sort of like, they learn a lot catch phrases
16:35
and, and things and they, you know, they really, they share
16:39
them and they maybe, you know, sound a little bit smarter, like
16:42
they have some wisdom, but they don't really go deep into the
16:45
deep architecture of something. And then there's, you know,
16:49
people like you who have, you know, really, you know, you
16:53
don't mind me saying this, but you know, you uncommonly
16:55
intelligent, you know, very extreme intelligence, but also
17:00
an extremely large heart. And they, and now they start to
17:03
get into something in a very deep and meaningful way.
17:06
And thank you so much brother. It's a lot coming from you.
17:09
Yeah, well, I mean it. I really do mean it.
17:12
And and what people don't understand is that somebody like
17:17
you can have a bunch of you know, you're not well understood
17:21
by people, you know, I see you, but but a lot of people maybe
17:27
don't understand that. Like, why would you, with your
17:32
success, the joy, you know, you can do anything you want in the
17:36
world, etcetera. Why are we sitting here doing a
17:38
podcast right now? You don't need to do a podcast,
17:40
you know, and they somebody might think, well, it's because
17:44
you know, you want it's an ego thing and it's like anybody knew
17:47
you. It's the complete opposite of an
17:50
ego thing. It is saying that you have these
17:53
gifts that you've been given and now you have a very strong
17:56
purpose in using them to serve other people so that they can
18:01
have love, conquer fear. I'll thank him.
18:04
And. And it's such a reliable to you.
18:06
I was born for this purpose. Yeah.
18:08
There's zero doubt in my mind. You know, there's no doubt.
18:11
And. And here you are doing it.
18:13
So I think that's pretty good evidence.
18:14
Yeah. Something's going on.
18:18
Yeah, this whole thing is all evidence.
18:19
Thing is, always is always, you know, I, I primarily identify as
18:23
a philosopher. So I'm always asking questions
18:25
and I'm right and debating these issues not in a, you know, in a
18:29
negative debating way, but literally you're trying to
18:31
discern things and right, you're creating essence.
18:34
And I feel like I, my way to try to understand the world is
18:36
through philosophy or using philosophical principles of
18:41
thinking, you know, the branches of philosophy, if you will.
18:44
And, and evidence is one of those areas in epistemology
18:47
where, you know, you'd say, OK, so you have scientists and
18:50
people practice scientism, you know, with it's almost their
18:52
dogma. And they, you know, we have to
18:54
have evidence for this. There's no evidence for that or
18:56
etcetera. And, and I, I always ask a
18:59
question that really bugs them, I'll say, well, what will you
19:01
accept this evidence? And when they have to try to
19:03
answer that question, that's a great question.
19:06
It, it, it, it automatically now puts them into usually a, a
19:10
contradictory position because whatever usually what they
19:13
assert as far as like in healthcare debates, you, you
19:17
know, people say, well, there's not enough evidence to support
19:19
you. Things like chiropractic or
19:21
homeopathy or, you know, go down a list of things of, you know,
19:24
non medical forms of practice. Well, there's no evidence, you
19:29
know, to support the, you know, the efficacy of that particular
19:31
practice, Right. And I'd say, well, what will you
19:35
accept as evidence? They said, well, there's no
19:38
randomized control of clinical trials, you know, blinded double
19:40
under control clinical trials of which I've been involved.
19:43
I've I've published in referee peer review journals.
19:45
I mean, I know that, I know that area and I'll say, oh, that's
19:50
that. So that's what evidence is for
19:51
you. Yeah.
19:53
Well then, are pretty much all of surgical procedures done in
19:58
the world today? There's no evidence for them.
20:01
I mean, how many, how many randomized placebo-controlled
20:04
trials do you think they've done on all these varying surgeries
20:07
that are done every single day in the world?
20:09
The answer is almost none. They did with knee surgeries
20:13
once I reviewed and in the placebo group did as as well as
20:18
the test group, you know, as far as outcomes.
20:20
Yeah. You know, say how you do a
20:21
placebo surgery. Well, they, they put the person
20:23
under, they cut, you know, cut the knee open and sewed it back
20:26
up and didn't do anything. So they woke up and saw a scar,
20:28
right? So how much is it is ceremonial,
20:30
How much of it is the belief of the person having an impact on
20:33
the outcome and so on and so on. So, and you know, you can get
20:35
into all kinds of other things too.
20:36
But I think the point is, and it's not necessarily this isn't
20:40
a healthcare conversation, but a lot of times people who have a
20:46
profound spiritual experience, very profound life changing
20:50
spiritual experience when they go to share it with someone and
20:54
whether it would be, you know, some non ordinary state of
20:58
consciousness. Maybe it's a psychedelic was the
21:00
tool. Maybe it's meditation was the
21:01
tool. Maybe it's prayer.
21:02
Maybe it's just struck him out of nowhere.
21:04
Those happened too. They had a near death
21:05
experience. Yeah.
21:06
Near death experience is a is a big one.
21:08
Right. Big one.
21:09
And supposedly 59 Americans that have found them.
21:12
Wow. Yeah.
21:13
I didn't know. Yeah.
21:14
Well, well, I didn't know it was that big.
21:16
So they've had this experience and then people say, well, you
21:21
know, you're trying to now proclaim that there's God or
21:23
there's heaven or there's whatever, whatever came back
21:26
from the experience, but that's really not evidence.
21:30
So then I have to ask, well, what would you accept as
21:32
evidence? And they don't really have, at
21:34
least I haven't come across anybody who had a specified
21:37
answer that made sense. And, you know, because they
21:42
equate evidence with truth. Well, if there's no evidence
21:45
that can't be true or the only way you know if it's true is if
21:49
there is evidence. And then, you know, it gets into
21:51
a whole arena of of consideration.
21:53
But what is truth? And, you know, do we have a
21:56
subjective truth from our own perspective?
21:58
Is there a universal truth? I mean, there's all those kinds
22:00
of thoughts. But in the end, when you talk
22:04
about something like love conquers fear or, you know,
22:06
which is a spiritual concept and it's a spiritual practice if you
22:10
decide to put it into your life. And, you know, people might say,
22:14
well, before I invest my time into this, you know, what
22:18
evidence is that that this works?
22:20
It's like, you know, then I'd say, what would you accept this
22:22
evidence? And in the end, I think that all
22:26
of us have to draw a somewhere we're going to take a stand, you
22:33
know, some conclusion about, you know, here is my life's
22:37
experience. Here's where I feel like I'm the
22:40
most clear headed, most connected, if you will, and that
22:46
is where I'm going to take my stand, even if other people
22:49
might think that I'm being silly or foolish or what have you.
22:54
So, you know, I guess circling all the way back to
22:56
psychedelics, a lot of people have extraordinary experiences
23:02
in psychedelics when they're done correctly.
23:03
And we can have a conversation around that because yeah, we
23:05
should. Yeah, there needs to be a
23:07
conversation around that. And, and when they're trying to
23:12
integrate and come back to embodying that experience, which
23:17
usually includes some form of healing, very often can have
23:20
some form of healing. And I'd like to talk about that
23:24
more too, in a moment. Yeah.
23:26
Then making you accepting it as true for you, even if other
23:31
people didn't have the experience, can't relate to it.
23:33
Whatever I think becomes very important because it's almost
23:36
like you woke up to something new and expanded, right?
23:42
And then because of the outside influences, you might start to
23:46
go back to sleep again because of the way people are treating
23:51
you as a result of it. Yeah, I think that's very well
23:55
said. I mean, one, one of the things
23:56
that that I was going to say about psychedelics or anything,
24:03
including spiritual practice or biohacking or really anything is
24:09
it all starts with intent and intentionality.
24:13
Good intentionality really matters a lot.
24:17
And you know, good example of that that comes to mind is Rick
24:22
Archer, who he has this famous podcast called Buddha at the Gas
24:25
Pump. I mean, when I started going
24:27
down the well of content here, Patrick, there is no end this
24:31
right now. It's start in 2009.
24:35
I think there are now over 800 episodes.
24:37
I learned about it from Mark Gober who was on episode 2 of
24:42
Love Conquers Fear. And, and he had this spiritual
24:47
teacher that really got him into kind of yogic practice and
24:53
Buddhism, who he really thought was everything, you know, he
24:59
really thought he was the man for that.
25:03
And, and he then found out later on, many years later that he was
25:07
sleeping with some of the young female alkalites there and
25:11
taking advantage of them. And he was, and he was actually
25:14
practicing celibacy. And, and Rick Archer was also
25:18
practicing celibacy because he was following the protocol.
25:22
And, and you know, he, he, he really honors that teacher.
25:28
He talks about him very fondly. Even with that, he says that
25:32
created a break where he knew, OK, that was the line for him.
25:36
And so he created this break with that teacher because he was
25:39
like, I don't think I can trust that teacher anymore.
25:42
But he took all the lessons he learned, which were very
25:45
powerful. And and that's, you know, that's
25:49
in everything. It's it's literally in
25:52
everything. It's it's in every practice.
25:54
It's in business. You know, I'm a conscious
25:56
capitalism. Yes, you know, I'm conscious
25:57
capitalist in in business. I have seen plenty of people try
26:01
to take advantage of others. It's in religion.
26:05
You know, this whole command and control structure which is
26:09
playing itself out in the most radical fringes right now with
26:13
radical jihadism, which is all about oppression of women and
26:19
you know, LGBT people, etcetera, and a very male dominated
26:24
command and control structure. What's happening in Iran, for
26:28
example? And, and so you know, this is,
26:33
this is the root of human suffering and the cure is the
26:39
inner journey and inner journey. There's many ways to have the
26:42
inner journey as we just talked about.
26:44
But whether you get there through spirituality or you get
26:47
there through Stoicism, which is a non spiritual practice, I
26:52
think the only way to transform yourself permanently is to take
26:58
the inner journey very seriously.
27:00
Practice it regularly, daily, and it will protect you in the
27:07
in the way of the salt that's going on in the world of form,
27:11
like we are in a 24/7 manipulation machine.
27:15
Enter in this world of form by people that want to control and
27:21
get our money. And that's true whether it's
27:25
social media, that's true, whether it's the media, that's
27:28
true, whether it's the pharmaceutical complex, that's
27:31
true even in the biohacking movement.
27:33
I mean, it's, it's all over the place.
27:35
And it's also even true in the psychedelic world.
27:39
So, you know, this, this is, I think we could agree anybody
27:43
listening to this, that if every single person on earth, 8.2
27:48
billion humans would just have a heart shift and realize that our
27:52
actual reality is rooted deeply in love and therefore we should
27:57
model what the actual reality is, then we would have
28:03
unprecedented abundance forever. And that's because we literally
28:08
allowed love to conquer fear in the world.
28:11
And then, you know, as I talked about in the Lattice, we would
28:13
have an unbounded escape velocity of scientific
28:18
discovery. And, you know, Speaking of the
28:21
burden of proof, the way I start out the Lattice with, with the
28:25
short story, God's final exam is there is unprecedented
28:31
scientific proof about the unity of science and spirituality, so
28:36
that it's undeniable. And I kind of poke fun at the
28:39
book. You know, it's playful.
28:41
And I don't mean just in a mean way because because what he
28:44
preaches is really transformative.
28:45
And John Mackey turned me on to his book.
28:48
But I poke fun at Doctor Joe Dispenza in the book because the
28:53
atheist who see this unprecedented scientific
28:57
discovery of what our actual reality is, they still deny the
29:03
existence of God, but they call it the great intelligence of the
29:06
quantum field. And you know exactly where I got
29:08
that, because that's what Joe the Smith that calls it.
29:11
Well, it's. You know, it's just having fun.
29:13
Yeah, of course Joe's a personal friend.
29:15
I mean. I think he's amazing and he's
29:18
changed many, many lives. He used to.
29:20
That practice, he, he kind of packaged up the power of prayer
29:23
in a very unique way. But literally, there's a parable
29:27
in the Dow that is or verse in the Dow that literally is Joe
29:34
Dispenses. It is what he does today.
29:36
It's literally in the Dow, over 2500 years old coming out of
29:39
China. Yeah, yeah.
29:41
Well, this, you know, nothing is new under the sun, so to speak,
29:44
right. And wisdom's been around, you
29:46
know, this form of wisdom in many facets has been around for,
29:52
you know, millennia. And.
29:55
And I think that to get to what you're talking about, which I do
30:01
believe we could be on, you know, the verge of a unlimited
30:06
abundance for all, or we could be in the verge of complete
30:11
authoritarianism, you know, because technology can lead you
30:15
one way or the. Other it's always how you use
30:17
it. It's right.
30:18
It's a mirror of us, right? So it's, it's, it's basically
30:21
who are we going to be? You know, And, and that's what
30:24
when people come to me so often, as you know, to control of me
30:28
and whether it's their business, they're having a crisis in their
30:30
marriage, they're having a crisis in or something with
30:33
their kids, you know, they'll come and say, you know, this is
30:36
this is going on. What should I do?
30:40
And I'll say to them, you're asking me the wrong question.
30:43
Given what's going on right now. The real question is who do you
30:45
need to be right now? It's about who you're being
30:48
because once you know who to be, then knowing what to do becomes
30:52
very easy. It becomes self-evident.
30:55
But if you don't know who, if you're disoriented, if you're,
30:58
if your sense of values and purpose are contradictory or non
31:04
existent or unconscious to you, then you don't know what to do
31:08
because you don't have any guidance to make a decision
31:11
from. And you get to pure pragmatism.
31:13
You know, you're just saying, you know, I just want to get,
31:15
you know, this problem solved and you're going to keep having
31:18
problems because you don't have that, you know, the structure of
31:22
that, that clarity around your life, your values, etcetera.
31:27
And I think that that's a big part of what waking up is, you
31:31
know, it's seeing a certain truth that's so inspiring that
31:36
now your your two things become sort of a fact.
31:40
Number one, that your your existence matters.
31:44
You have a purpose, right? And #2 you're going to be most
31:48
fulfilled when you're moving toward that purpose, right?
31:51
And but most people are living in survival.
31:53
They're not purpose driven. And when you live in survival,
31:57
survival's all you get. And then you're easily managed,
31:59
controlled through fear, right? You know, if you're if, if
32:01
survival's where you are, then fear is my way of controlling
32:04
you. And that's kind of easy to
32:06
manipulate or control people when you keep them in fear.
32:10
But if the disposition is towards love, and usually that
32:15
creates A disposition towards service, you know, to others or
32:18
I, I explained. To you selfless services, yes.
32:21
And and, you know, we, we should talk about a few of those
32:23
things. I think that then, then what
32:29
starts to happen is your, your, your frequency changes.
32:32
And a lot of people like, hey, that sounds like this, but it's
32:35
literally a state of your own energetic expression changes.
32:39
And when that changes, then how people respond to you in the
32:42
world changes, etcetera. And we've all heard this.
32:45
I think the challenge is when we say, you know, well, if people
32:49
choose love, etcetera, how do we define love?
32:51
What do we mean? What do we mean by that?
32:53
And this is what happens as people hear the platitudes and
32:55
the catch phrases. And I'm just saying love
32:57
conquers fear is applied to your catch phrase.
32:59
It's not for you. You literally not can, but are
33:03
writing a book on it. OK, so there's there's you know
33:06
that there's a depth behind that.
33:08
But a lot of times the guru's leaders, you know, pseudo
33:11
intellectuals, you know, they're spatting the catch phrases.
33:14
People are repeating catch phrases.
33:16
They have no idea the deeper understanding and meaning of it.
33:20
Right, Right. And so that's why I think
33:22
important conversation is to say, what do we mean by love?
33:26
What do we mean by service? What?
33:27
Let's go there. OK, what?
33:28
Do you? What do you?
33:28
What do you mean by love when you talk about it?
33:30
Well, here comes the controversy and it would be that's that
33:33
controversial. I had let's say I was in a state
33:37
of non ordinary consciousness and I I was in the presence of
33:49
something that I would say was a Christ.
33:56
Consciousness is how people might you know, the people talk
33:59
about that. I don't I didn't I don't see a
34:01
human. I don't see.
34:02
Yeah, but clearly powerfully A presence was there that my soul
34:10
or whatever is interpreting what's going on.
34:13
It's not verbal is sensing you. If I had to put words on it like
34:18
Christ consciousness, OK. And it said to me something that
34:23
changed my life in a, in a moment, it said, Patrick, the
34:27
fundamental nature of creation is not love, it's beauty.
34:35
Love is what a human being experiences when they're
34:39
witnessing beauty. And that's not a nuance because
34:43
we, we talk about love as a primary.
34:48
It's the, it's the causative thing.
34:50
It is. God is love.
34:52
God, you know, Love Is All you need, you know, etcetera,
34:55
etcetera. But this little shift, which
34:59
I've shared, you know, with others, I'm writing a book on it
35:01
now, but I've shared with others has literally brought them to
35:06
tears sometimes in a moment because it was like the thing
35:10
that they couldn't it, it's somehow locked.
35:13
The puzzle piece fell in place, the idea in an essence.
35:18
And what I'm drawing, you know, some of the derivatives from
35:21
that is that when this understanding shifts because if
35:29
the fun, if the fabric of reality is beauty.
35:33
And again, you know, what do we mean by you?
35:34
I'm not talking about the cover of Vogue magazine.
35:36
I'm talking about a primary, a literally pervasive, A
35:41
fundamental. And if that if that fundamental
35:45
nature of creation, the fabric of the universe is beauty, then
35:50
in a sense we're saying God is beauty.
35:54
And it led me down this road that my own conclusion on it is
35:59
that God wants to be witnessed, right?
36:05
So what would God do if he wanted to be witnessed to see
36:10
beauty? If you see us, I mean, you don't
36:12
have to. And let me just say that you
36:13
don't have to. I don't care what language you
36:15
speak, what color your skin is, where you live in the world,
36:18
right? A sunrise is beautiful, right?
36:20
Right. You know what I'm saying?
36:21
Nature is beautiful. The night sky is moving and
36:25
beautiful. A mother nurturing an infant is
36:29
beautiful. That's not a learned thing,
36:32
that's innate. That's innate.
36:34
So if you're, if you want, if God wants to be witnessed,
36:40
what's God going to do? God's going to give the greatest
36:43
reward to you when you're witnessing him or her.
36:48
You know, gender doesn't really apply.
36:50
So, so basically the consequence is then that beauty is, I'm
36:57
sorry, love is the reward that we get for witnessing God, for
37:01
witnessing beauty. And as long as we're moving
37:05
through life and we're witnessing beauty, God is
37:09
present. But when we stop seeing beauty
37:12
and things get very ugly and dark, we're getting very, very
37:16
separated and from God. God is no longer present in
37:19
those circumstances. And that's when really evil
37:20
stuff can happen. So because there's no way for a
37:24
bunch of evil to happen, we're all seeing beauty in each.
37:26
Other. That's right.
37:27
That's right. And then when I see like when I
37:29
see the beauty in you, I feel love.
37:30
Love is my reward or it's it's experience I have for seeing the
37:34
beauty in your spirit in your life and what you do and your
37:38
purpose. So, so it so I basically
37:43
conclude that the shared purpose of humanity, generically
37:46
speaking, we all have an individual purse, but the shared
37:49
purpose of humanity is to witness God.
37:52
That's that's what our shared purpose is.
37:54
And people said, but what about, you know, tragedy and so on and
37:57
so forth. And you know, one example I'll
38:00
give. I have I had a cousin, I think
38:03
early 30s, thirty 132 beautiful girl, two young kids, loving
38:08
husband, diagnosed with cancer and and unfortunately passes big
38:14
Italian family that go back home for the services.
38:17
And it is so tragic. You see, you know, these little
38:21
children that you know, the, the bereaved husband, all the other
38:26
family were crying and sobbing and it's, but they're all there
38:29
together, comforting each other. I had to be asked myself the
38:32
question while I'm observing all this, I'm asking the question,
38:35
where's the beauty in it? You know, because when, when
38:38
things are really bad, that's the first, that's my, that
38:40
practice of this whole concept is you ask the question, where's
38:42
the beauty in it? But then I saw how people came
38:46
together to support each other in the most tragic
38:51
circumstances. And you see it after, you know,
38:54
big natural events where people you know, are killed or you
38:57
know, people are in trouble and other people show up complete
39:00
strangers helping other strength.
39:01
There's even though the event is tragic, there's a beauty in it.
39:04
And if you look for the beauty, you're going to feel love.
39:08
So I, so my own view is that love is a secondary response.
39:12
It's love exists. Love is absolutely important.
39:15
And if we're not feeling love, not expressing, you know, love
39:20
that, you know, I think that's a really bad thing.
39:22
So I think, but the nuance for me is that the in the shift is
39:27
that it's a response to beauty as compared to a primary.
39:31
I, I love that. I mean, I really, really love
39:33
that. And you know, one of the
39:34
documentaries I backed recently is Louis Schwartzberg's Hidden
39:40
Beauty. I was about that.
39:41
I was the first interview he did for that, that that's cool.
39:44
So thanks for backing it. Yeah, yeah.
39:46
But it's. Amazing.
39:47
It's amazing because he, you know, you know what his purpose
39:50
is with that. I don't know if they'll tell me
39:53
about it. I'll.
39:53
I'll tell you, I'll tell you real quickly, he wants the this
39:57
next generation, you know, Generation Z, Generation Alpha,
40:01
etcetera. To go outside, get off screens
40:05
sometimes go outside, touch grass, you know, the touch grass
40:08
movement and really be able to see the amazing beauty hidden in
40:16
plain sight in nature, just all the time.
40:18
It's everywhere. It's everywhere.
40:19
I mean, I really, I really do walk around that way.
40:22
You know, I take tons of photos of sunsets.
40:25
I constantly seen the beauty in people, animals, and it's just,
40:33
it literally is everywhere. I mean, we have an abundance
40:36
that the, the, the things that will move your heart the most
40:39
are free. They're just everywhere.
40:41
I mean, like, just take a moment and go watch the sunset.
40:44
You know, our our oldest daughter, Rachel, I would always
40:49
tell her since you, since she was very, very young, I'd be
40:53
like for every sunset that you bear witness to, you get a day
40:58
added on to your life. And she wrote about that in her
41:01
essays for college. Well, that's amazing.
41:03
She really practices that. But it's true.
41:05
I actually think, I mean, look, do I know if it's one day added
41:09
on? I don't know, but but but for
41:12
every moment, I would say that you take time to really, really
41:17
notice beauty and I love your definition of it.
41:21
I'm never going to forget this. It moves you and if you and if
41:25
you lead with love, if you have a heart shift yourself, then it
41:31
permanently changes your life. But you do have to remind
41:34
yourself because because there's so many assaults in the world of
41:37
form where the comparison machine will kick back online.
41:40
And, you know, we could just berate ourselves all the time
41:44
about like, I wish I was this or I wish I was that, or I wish I
41:48
had this many or whatever it is. I mean, it's just an endless
41:51
litany of things. That's why nobody like what she
41:53
said. The cover of Vogue.
41:54
Like you know there. It's lost beauty, yeah.
41:57
Can you see beauty in someone that isn't the avatar that's
42:02
being celebrated by the whatever the magazine is?
42:07
I. Mean the the human because.
42:08
There's beauty in all of us. There is, and the human, you
42:12
know, it's kind of Luciferian, right?
42:13
It's very seductive to, you know, parade certain things that
42:17
are going to lure you in from a low frequency of Pinocchio.
42:23
Yeah, yeah. So you turn into a donkey.
42:25
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you know, so it's
42:28
the true beauty is, you know, not man made.
42:31
I mean, humans can be beautiful, express beauty, etcetera because
42:35
they're part of the cosmos. But you know, the beauty I'm
42:39
talking about are those pictures coming back from the Hubble
42:41
telescope. You know that everybody looks
42:43
and goes, Oh my God, yeah. It was just like.
42:45
It and and the James Webb now yeah, they're even even more so.
42:49
Have you seen the hands of creation?
42:51
Yes, that image. I should share a link to that in
42:54
the show notes, but that that blows my mind.
42:56
Yeah, it's and that there was not the healing.
42:59
It's called the. Fingers of creation.
43:01
Yeah, I've seen those there. I actually want to like get a
43:04
good image of that and frame it. Yeah, I guess it's a reminder,
43:08
you know, that this is what's out there and.
43:10
By the way, the good image is online they they they have such
43:15
resolution. Just download it for free but
43:16
it'll take up a ton of space in your hard.
43:18
Drive. That's fine.
43:19
It is a mega I res image perfect coming out that.
43:22
Can blow it up real big. You can.
43:23
Blow it up. You can literally blow it up as
43:25
big as this wall and not lose your eyes.
43:27
But when I, when I'm you, I guess Louis and I got introduced
43:31
to a mutual friend who knew about the beauty premise that I
43:33
was talking about and in an incidentally, you know, if
43:38
nothing else, as I get older, I, I, I become more and more humble
43:42
about things. And as much as I appreciate the
43:45
acknowledgement of your, your definition of beauty, it, it's
43:48
not mine. It was given to me.
43:49
You know, I'd love to say, hey, I'm this smart and I came up
43:51
with this. I'm not in it.
43:52
I didn't. It was in his non Ori state
43:56
where there was a presence that shared it with me and and I'm
44:00
just the vessel that it came through and yeah, yeah.
44:03
So so. That's one of the things I love
44:05
about you so much is that you're deeply humble, even though
44:09
you've done so many amazing things in life.
44:12
I mean, it's just like the the one of the most interesting men
44:15
on Earth in terms of the background, you know, it's like.
44:18
It's weird. Yeah.
44:20
Maybe it's my, you know, my childhood ADD and, you know, you
44:24
have to pay attention to one thing for a long time.
44:27
I have a lot of interest. Well, you remind me a lot of my,
44:30
of my dad. You know, my dad, he would, he
44:33
would totally Max out on things he was interested in and just
44:36
become like a world expert and, and then he'd move on to the
44:39
next thing and become a world expert in that.
44:41
Yeah, well, I don't know about world expert, but I certainly
44:43
like to explore them. Yeah, for me.
44:45
And anyway, I I think, you know, so I had a friend that that
44:49
basically knew about the the beauty premises.
44:51
I was describing my experience with it and and then New Louis
44:55
and then that's where you connect this and then and then
44:58
we had a lot of mutual friends, Libby and I and and and that's
45:01
where you said, Hey, can you come out?
45:03
And you know, I sat for, I think hours away.
45:05
I mean, it was it was just really getting into it and I
45:08
love that guy. I mean his.
45:10
Beautiful human being and I shout out to fantastic Funga,
45:13
which that documentary has a 99% on Rotten Tomatoes and it is
45:20
unbelievably, I mean, I was told by the Austin Film Society here,
45:25
which is a nonprofit, that it was the most popular documentary
45:27
they ever screened. Wow.
45:28
And and it should be. I mean, it was.
45:32
His work is transcendent because of its beauty and he's very
45:38
innovative around it. But when you think about, you
45:40
know, there's film makers and there's artists and and Louis is
45:43
an artist. I mean, and true.
45:45
And you're through and through. And, you know, if I were, I
45:48
don't know that he said these words to me.
45:49
But if I were to characterize what's his purpose?
45:51
And it's bringing beauty to the world, right.
45:53
It's exposing. It's more exposing beauty in the
45:56
world. And everything's just dripping
45:58
aesthetically, you know, from the work he does.
46:00
So he's a unique soul. And I'm really excited to see
46:04
this thing when it comes out. Yeah.
46:05
Yeah. So thanks for supporting it.
46:06
Yeah. Yeah.
46:07
You bet. Yeah.
46:08
So, so I want to come back to psychedelics 'cause you, you
46:12
have knowledge that very, very few people have.
46:16
I mean, how many people watching this or listen to this have made
46:19
a documentary series on psychedelics and, and, and spent
46:23
so much time learning about them.
46:26
So, you know, in the, in the docu series, one of the things
46:30
you covered was ayahuasca. Then we start there And, and I
46:35
know that you you always say that's not where you would start
46:41
anybody's first journey, but but what do you think about
46:45
ayahuasca? How would you describe it?
46:47
So let me just start by saying I don't consider myself an expert,
46:52
you know, like a deep expert on any in psychedelics.
46:55
I, I did a full exploration, you know, through the documentary
46:58
experience. So I feel like I, I had a lot of
47:01
great conversations and I've certainly have drawn some of my
47:03
own personal conclusions. And and I say that only because
47:06
some people are going to say, Oh, that's not right.
47:08
I don't agree with you. And you know, I'm a better
47:10
expert. I'm not going to be the greatest
47:12
expert at the worth. I'm, I'm talking to you now like
47:14
if a friend were asking for advice based on what my right,
47:17
my explorations have shown. So ayahuasca is a hallucinogen,
47:22
you know, in, in, in its category.
47:25
And it is. Let me take a step back and talk
47:30
about in general, each medicine, you know, it has its own
47:36
characteristics like each human does, right?
47:38
But then there's the shared concept of humanity.
47:41
So the shared concept of psychedelics, right?
47:44
And and I want to just start by saying this is not about getting
47:50
or should not be about getting high.
47:53
It's not about partying. It's especially not about
47:56
escapism. There's a lot of people feel
47:58
like, oh, you know, drugs as a concept.
48:01
And I don't put psychedelics in the category of drugs in this
48:04
way. You know, people take them to
48:06
escape, right? Usually psychedelics are going
48:10
to be very confronting, you know, for what?
48:13
If, you know, you're not escaping.
48:14
You got some challenges, you got some injuries, you got some
48:17
wounds there. You're going to probably
48:20
confront those in psychedelics and some might be more feminine
48:26
and gentle in the way that they have you confront and some might
48:28
be like a, like an iboga might be very masculine and, you know,
48:32
harder. So, so when we look at
48:35
ayahuasca, some, what some people do, this is not my chart
48:38
is they have levels of psychedelics and it's kind of
48:41
based on their intensity. You know, how intense of an
48:43
experience is it? It's level 1, level 2, Level 3.
48:47
So ayahuasca usually falls into that level 2 area.
48:50
Most people would agree it's, it's a, it's a hallucinogen.
48:56
It's considered to be very feminine.
48:59
But I, I kind of made the analogy last night with you that
49:03
you never know who's going to get the, the hot pepper.
49:05
You got, you got all the shishitos out.
49:07
Somebody's going to get the hot pepper.
49:08
And you know, I is like that, you know, somebody's going to
49:11
get the hot pepper and they're going to have a heck of a
49:13
challenging experience can be. Right.
49:15
The good news is last night, all of our shishitos, there was not
49:18
a single. I didn't get one, yeah.
49:20
Exactly so. So we were.
49:21
We were spared. Last night, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:23
Our group. Also weren't hallucinogenic.
49:26
No, no, no conversation. Pepper and hallucinogenic?
49:31
Probably not. A good, not a good combination.
49:33
You'll be purging a whole lot, right?
49:37
So I want to just start out by saying what matters most in my
49:43
book is intention set setting, who's facilitating, what kind of
49:50
container is there? So the, so the weekend parties
49:53
in Beverly Hills for, you know, for ayahuasca.
49:55
Hey, we're doing ayahuasca retreat at my house this
49:57
weekend. Let's show up.
49:58
I got a shaman that came in from such and such a place.
50:00
And I, I, I, you know, the PSA on that is, you know, I'd steer
50:04
away from that. I totally.
50:05
Would steer away. So you know, because you know.
50:08
I've never done that outside of when I was really young.
50:14
I did mushrooms once at a friend's house and LSD once at a
50:19
friend's house and he was honestly a pretty meaningless
50:22
experience because there was the set in setting was not right at
50:27
all. And I ended up with one friend
50:30
like helping them talk about confrontational, like they were
50:36
being confronted very directly by the father that had deserted
50:41
the family in the journey. And so I was just helping to
50:45
make sure he was OK. So I literally played therapist
50:48
for like 6 hours just so I'm sure he was OK because he had a
50:52
really traumatic childhood as a result of that, as you would
50:55
imagine. So it was, I think it was trying
50:58
to get him to overcome that. And maybe I helped him out
51:02
actually. I actually do think that he, he
51:06
had a heart shift later on and him and his father, his father
51:10
came back into his life later on.
51:12
And you know, so it was, it was a marker in time.
51:15
But I do remember that part of it because because there were a
51:18
lot of tears and it was a lot of, you know, me thinking, Oh my
51:22
gosh, I hope my friend's OK and just holding him and hugging him
51:25
and trying to calm him down. Yeah, yeah, it's that happens.
51:30
And thank God you were there for him.
51:32
Yes, because, because that could spin out and go really bad.
51:35
Yeah, I would. Say that it could do a lot of
51:36
damage. Yeah, again, everything happens
51:38
for a reason. I think I was there with him for
51:41
that reason. It was not about me.
51:43
No, it was about him. Yeah, so, so, so a couple of the
51:48
things. And to just frame it up, I look
51:51
at when somebody's going to enter journey space.
51:53
You know that you a lot of people characterize for you
51:57
doing a psycho psychedelic. It's going to be a journey space
51:59
that you're entering. Is that that sacred ground?
52:03
That's a sacred. It's not a party ground.
52:05
It's not it's, it's got to be treated as sacred ground.
52:08
And it's a friend of mine once said, the sacred ground is to be
52:12
visited, not lived in. You don't, you don't suddenly
52:15
say, oh, this is a really cool place.
52:16
I think I'll stay here. Now you visit, you know, you
52:19
have your experience, whatever wisdoms going to come in and you
52:23
leave, right? We're not, we're humans in this
52:25
3D place right now. We're not meant to live in those
52:28
places. That is so incredibly important
52:31
and wise what you just said is so incredibly important that
52:36
that the integration is is so much of the benefit like what
52:41
you do afterwards 100%. I mean, a huge part of what I'm
52:46
doing now with just the constant reading everything else is
52:49
embodying the knowledge is because of having this
52:53
experience with the divine and realizing, Wow, this is our
52:57
actual reality. I better really get leveled up
52:59
and learn a lot that's right ASAP so that I can both help
53:03
teach and and I can be a bridge builder.
53:07
You know, that's, I can sit down with an Indian American now and
53:10
talk about the Gita, or I could sit down with the Chinese
53:13
American and talk about the Dow, right?
53:14
Because I honestly think they're all the same thing.
53:17
They're all the same thing at the common root.
53:19
Well, truth is truth, you know, and different people get to try
53:24
to bring words to it and share it.
53:28
But there's only one ultimate truth, no matter what culture it
53:33
comes from, right? And, and I think that this
53:37
concept of, of visiting sacred ground, you know, is important
53:42
because what happens for a lot of people is, you know, they
53:45
start doing like a bunch of journeys.
53:47
You know, I, I, I know people who've literally bragged about
53:51
the fact that I've done over 500 ayahuasca journeys.
53:54
OK, so that's a real thing. That wasn't just the biohacker
53:57
thing. Oh, no, no, that's.
53:58
There's you actually know people that done 500 ayahuasca
54:01
journeys. Yes, Wow.
54:02
Yeah. And they, and, and I'm saying
54:04
they profess this publicly often, not just privately.
54:08
And I'm not here to judge them and say, oh, you know, they're
54:11
bad. They're this or that.
54:13
My own lens that I look through is, hey, this is sacred ground.
54:17
It's really nice to go there and, and you know, get some
54:21
wisdom and so on. But in general, I look at
54:23
psychedelics as training wheels. They just are training, training
54:28
someone to go into a non ordinary, non ordinary state of
54:32
consciousness to maybe help heal some wounds that you know,
54:37
otherwise can't get healed and then then to come back.
54:41
And I believe that we should over time do the work so that we
54:47
don't need the psychedelic anymore to go visit these places
54:51
or to go have that experience. And so to me, I, I look them as
54:56
a training wheel. It's a very valuable training
54:59
wheel. I mean, you know, just imagine
55:01
you'd never ride the bike unless you first had the training
55:03
wheels, you know, as a metaphor. Of course, some people might
55:05
say, oh, no, I never had training wheels.
55:06
It's just a metaphor. But but it's the metaphor is,
55:10
you know, you're never going to get to ride the bike until you
55:12
get the training wheels on and you learn to kind of get your
55:14
balance and get steady and understand where you're going in
55:17
the exploration of that space. And I can generally say that
55:20
yes, I've had psychedelic experiences like, you know, life
55:25
changing, profound be the some of the most important
55:27
experiences of my adult life. And I've also had psychedelic
55:33
type experiences being no medicine through meditation,
55:37
other practices where I've gotten wisdom that's just as
55:41
important for my life. So because a lot of people say,
55:44
well, the medicine says this, the medicine says that, no,
55:46
you're the medicine. This is just a tool.
55:50
You, you, it's a tool to help you access a state of
55:53
consciousness that can help you help you see things more
55:57
clearly, help you integrate something, help you heal from
56:00
some trauma in your life, help you maybe heal some
56:03
intergenerational trauma that you didn't even know was there.
56:06
That's, that's you vertically transmitted through, you know,
56:08
your genes. I mean, there's, there's so many
56:10
things that that it could be great for, but suddenly when you
56:14
start to worship the medicine and some people do, it's almost
56:20
like a deity in and of itself, you know, and it's not, I mean,
56:23
people talk mother Ayahuasca or grandmother ayahuasca.
56:26
Yeah, there's, there's, there's definitely a feminine aspect to
56:28
it. There's definitely this wisdom
56:31
that feels like, you know, grandma wisdom, whatever it
56:33
might be. But in the end, it's your life,
56:37
your soul. And this is there to help teach
56:41
you something. And some, some of the things
56:43
that you might have to deal with could be very hard in there.
56:46
But I, I personally believe that if I'm giving advice to somebody
56:52
as a non expert, again, just saying, hey, if you want us,
56:54
from what I've seen in the conversations I've had, you
56:57
know, I'm not a facilitator. I don't administer that.
56:59
I don't have thousands of of journeys that I've, you know,
57:02
that I've facilitated, you know, so I'm not, I'm not anywhere in
57:05
that category. I just talked to those people,
57:07
right. But my own, my own assertion is
57:11
that you want to start in, in as gentle a way as possible,
57:15
probably like a level 1, you know, type of an experience like
57:18
like psilocybin would be considered level 1 compared
57:21
Ayahuasca, San Pedro, you know those, you know, those things
57:24
are more level 2 stronger hallucinogens.
57:27
You know, something like, you know, psilocybin mushrooms are
57:31
going to be a shorter duration, not as extreme.
57:35
You can do very light dosing, you know, etcetera, the the
57:39
Clarigenic category of things where there's not hallucination
57:43
that that's really, I'm a big fan of that area.
57:47
And you know, So what medicines are in that category, you know,
57:51
might be like MDMAMDA, sassafras, ketamine and a lot of
57:56
people are combining some of these things and those are very
58:00
heart opening. So it's very it's very much
58:05
gentler, safer feeling helps you because it's it could be very
58:08
jolting to go into that space, you know, and it's especially
58:12
for the first time. So it's kind of easing in a
58:14
little bit more. So I think there's there's
58:17
there's points of entry, you know, that could be better.
58:19
Now, I can tell you people I know, as a matter of fact, one
58:23
of them's in our docu series, you know, former Navy SEAL
58:26
commander who, you know, his first experience was ayahuasca
58:29
and it saved his life. So, you know, so the people who
58:31
are going to have that reaction, Oh, no, no, you know, people
58:34
could start there and tell. Yes, I know.
58:36
Yeah, that was a very moving. Yeah, part of the documentary
58:38
because that guy looks like he could break both of us somehow
58:41
in two seconds, in two seconds. So he's, you know, really tough
58:46
Navy SEAL guy. Yeah.
58:47
Yeah. And he was, he was really
58:50
broken. I mean, he really was about to
58:52
commit suicide and he. He was drinking like so much.
58:57
I mean, he he he had a, you know, he tells the story.
58:59
So I'm not sharing anything. He he isn't shared publicly,
59:02
but, you know, he and he's become a good friend.
59:04
You know, he's a beautiful, beautiful soul.
59:07
Yeah. You can tell that.
59:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if it, you know, he's seen
59:11
some serious war, you know, and and he's been in some pretty
59:14
stressful situations and he's extremely bright guy, you know,
59:17
Annapolis grad, you know, engineering degree.
59:20
And and he had to he had a medical discharge, you know, in
59:23
other words. So we got injured to a point
59:24
where he had to come out. And I remember showing me a
59:28
picture, one saying, you know, this was me, you know, before,
59:30
when I was, you know, pretty much dead, you know, Walking
59:34
Dead. And he he goes, this is the best
59:37
smile I could muster. And you could look at him and it
59:39
was just like a zombie face, you know, and, and he so he got
59:43
lucky in the sense of yeah, yeah.
59:47
But in that, in that sense. But also happened, you know,
59:51
there's, you know, inspiration and desperation.
59:53
He was in a desperate circumstance and happened to be
59:56
at an event and met some people with some kind of a business
1:00:01
event. And they start talking and they
1:00:03
start a little bit about his background.
1:00:05
And they said, hey, you know, we have a group that gathers we're
1:00:09
going to be doing ayahuasca, you know, and.
1:00:12
You know, I think this could be really good for you.
1:00:13
And he was in nothing to lose. So he went and and and that's
1:00:18
the opposite way I would normally I'd recommend for
1:00:20
anybody. Thankfully it worked out for
1:00:22
him, you know, and thankfully it put him on a path because it's
1:00:25
the first time that he saw a possibility that he could heal
1:00:28
at all. They that not even just feel
1:00:30
that he could feel. He was just, he was just
1:00:32
couldn't feel anymore. You know, it was really bad.
1:00:35
And and that put him on his journey.
1:00:37
You know, that got him all the way back to happy guy.
1:00:39
Now he's got kids. You know, he's got a great
1:00:41
relationship or, you know, I go out mountain biking with him,
1:00:43
you know, you know, when I'm out in Park City.
1:00:45
Yeah. So, so he's, he's got a life now
1:00:47
and, and you know, successful entrepreneur.
1:00:50
So what's it? What's the downside of something
1:00:52
like ayahuasca? The downside is if it's not
1:00:58
proper set setting, you know, facilitation, it's not done
1:01:03
well. You know, you could have a
1:01:06
really bad experience that, you know, could actually set you
1:01:09
much further back instead of going forward.
1:01:12
And, you know, having had conversations with people who've
1:01:15
had those experiences, first of all, it like now they're like,
1:01:20
they don't want to try anything ever again because it was so
1:01:23
hard. But, and secondly, they're now
1:01:26
carrying more trauma rather than less.
1:01:29
And, and so their, their probability of healing, you
1:01:32
know, goes way, way, way down. And typically, you know, take
1:01:36
someone that they can trust to talk them in a little bit and to
1:01:41
try to say, hey, there's, there's, there's hope for you
1:01:44
still. And, and, and I have a better
1:01:47
way. There's, it's a very predatory
1:01:51
space. You know, you, you hear a lot of
1:01:53
molestation going on that people are taken advantage of
1:01:57
financially, sexually especially.
1:02:00
Women. Yeah, especially women.
1:02:02
And women are unfortunately targeted throughout the ages and
1:02:08
the predators start there. Yeah.
1:02:11
So yeah, it's really that really.
1:02:14
I've got a chapter in my book Love Conquers Fear, humanity, AI
1:02:19
and nature abundance for all and, and it's chapter on the
1:02:22
objectification of women and how much suffering has happened
1:02:26
throughout our entire existence as as Homo sapiens because of
1:02:32
that, because of physical testosterone dominance that led
1:02:35
to, you know, that the abundance that we even have today, if you
1:02:41
took, you know, 250,000 and 300,000 years that Homo sapiens
1:02:45
have been around. I mean, if 99 point 7% of the
1:02:50
time we didn't even have electricity.
1:02:52
Yeah, that's that's that's a contest. .3% of the entire
1:02:57
existence of our evolution. So there there was, there was a
1:03:01
lot of a lot. Now there's a lot of beauty I
1:03:03
think in US even in, even in, in those times.
1:03:07
But, you know, unfortunately there's been a lot of
1:03:11
objectification of women throughout the ages.
1:03:14
There has been not, not. Across all cultures, some
1:03:16
cultures like celebrated women as the most amazing, you know,
1:03:22
part of, of humanity. Yeah, I mean, we take a step
1:03:25
back and look at it all the, you know, any man who's glimpsed the
1:03:31
divine feminine would have such an exalted view.
1:03:35
Women and, and conversely, you know, you know, women who see
1:03:40
the, the divine masculine, you know, but there's a lot of toxic
1:03:43
masculinity and there's a lot of, you know, toxic femininity
1:03:47
that is a result of these kind of cata forces that are very
1:03:52
entropic in nature. And they don't allow the, the
1:03:56
beautiful self organization of what the feminine, the masculine
1:04:02
Canon should be. And it becomes predatory and
1:04:05
dominance and so on 'cause that's really the two side.
1:04:07
I mean, you look at it, these themes play out on all scales in
1:04:12
all ways. You know, your brilliant
1:04:16
insights on AI and looking at, you know, what AI could mean or
1:04:19
what it might mean if it goes the wrong way.
1:04:21
You know, I, I read a, A blog post recently, I wish I'd give
1:04:26
attribution, but I don't remember the author, but I don't
1:04:29
know if it was a he or she. Let's say it was a she did a
1:04:31
beautiful job of using James Cameron's movies as a metaphor,
1:04:35
saying, you know, there's Terminator where you had Skynet.
1:04:39
It was, you know, controlling everybody through technology.
1:04:42
And then you had Avatar, right, where it was this beautiful
1:04:48
balance, you know, of humanity with the tree of life, right?
1:04:51
And AI can give us what are those, you know, either of those
1:04:55
you know. And all technology, all
1:04:57
technology, including psychedelics that can be used
1:05:00
for good or bad. Psychedelics are just a
1:05:02
technology. It's it's it's another tool
1:05:04
technology. So so I think in the end, you
1:05:07
know, you know, it's it's kind of a long answer to it was a
1:05:11
simple question, but you know, I want to do it justice.
1:05:15
Is that vetting is very important, Meaning you have to,
1:05:20
if you're going to, if somebody's looking to go into a
1:05:22
psychedelic experience, you have to vet the experience.
1:05:27
Meaning like you would anything else.
1:05:29
Think, think, think about your, if you're going to make an
1:05:32
investment in a company, right? You're not going to just blindly
1:05:36
go or not. If one person says, oh, I'm
1:05:38
putting all my money into X, it's like, you know, if you were
1:05:40
responsible, you're going to actually do a little bit of your
1:05:42
own research. You're going to find out what
1:05:45
your own criteria is for something that you'd want to
1:05:48
invest in. Well, you're investing your, to
1:05:51
a large degree, your soul and your future into these
1:05:53
decisions. This is not a light decision.
1:05:56
This is literally a life changing decision and it's
1:06:01
either going to be positively life changing, negatively life
1:06:04
changing, but it's typically not always, but typically going to
1:06:07
be life changing. So, so it's not, it's so you
1:06:10
know, it's IA good. I as bad, you know, it's not the
1:06:13
ayah is ayah. You know, ayahuasca is
1:06:14
ayahuasca. The question is who's providing
1:06:18
it? What's the set and setting?
1:06:20
Meaning what's the place, you know, what's the what's it like
1:06:22
around? What's the intention behind it?
1:06:25
Is there any support and integration afterwards?
1:06:28
Cause a lot of people think that it's doing the journey that's
1:06:31
the thing, right? And it's no, it's the
1:06:33
integration and embodiment of what is learned that's the
1:06:36
thing. Everybody wants to be kind of
1:06:39
magic pill and a in a sense, but the reality is the path to
1:06:46
lasting happiness takes a lot of work.
1:06:49
Yeah, it takes a lot of inner work.
1:06:50
Yes. It's very simple to describe
1:06:53
what the, what the state is that you want to get in.
1:06:57
It's extremely simple to describe, but it's very hard.
1:07:01
It's kind of like Mike Tyson, you know, says everybody has a
1:07:03
plan to get punched in the face. And so, you know, just this book
1:07:08
that I, I mentioned the opener, you know, love is letting go of
1:07:12
fear. You know, the examples he gives
1:07:15
lots of examples of how to actually put that into practice.
1:07:18
But you know, you're at a you're picking up your car, you know,
1:07:23
from you know, from being repaired and the guy's just a
1:07:27
total and jerk to you. This completely a jerk to you.
1:07:32
How do you react in that moment? If you react with anger back,
1:07:36
what are you going to get? You're going to get more anger
1:07:38
escalate. What if you instead ask
1:07:41
yourself, well, gosh, why is he this angry?
1:07:46
Like maybe, maybe his wife just called or maybe maybe he just
1:07:50
had a really horrific, maybe his best friend just died.
1:07:52
I mean, maybe, maybe someone just treated him absolutely
1:07:57
horribly and he's lashing. He just thanks all customers bad
1:08:00
now, whatever. And so if you react in that
1:08:03
situation instead with love, with, with, with love and, and
1:08:08
compassion and compassion, then it could literally transform his
1:08:13
life because that let's just say that guy actually did that every
1:08:17
day and somehow still managed to keep that job.
1:08:20
Then you may be the one that gets him to open up and, and
1:08:25
realize, you know, just hey, man, what's what's wrong?
1:08:28
Like you must have something really bad, you know, etcetera.
1:08:31
Like not in a condescending way, but like in a way where he can
1:08:34
feel your actual love and you know it's a choice.
1:08:37
Like how you rat. The, the only, I shouldn't say
1:08:40
the only way, but the, the primary way that, you know, you
1:08:45
can be that person that walks that way you're talking about,
1:08:48
they can act, react with their respond with compassion as
1:08:52
compared to react with anger or meet anger with anger and
1:08:55
escalate. It is they have to be healed and
1:08:59
centered and so on. That's right.
1:09:01
And, you know, I marvel at the perfection of the universe.
1:09:06
And one of the things that I assert and, and that I've seen
1:09:12
in in the way that when I used to practice it, you know, when I
1:09:15
was a practicing chiropractor years ago, is the concept that I
1:09:19
think I originally heard from a guy named Donnie Epstein, who's
1:09:22
just a brilliant genius. He said there's no such thing as
1:09:27
a wound that doesn't simultaneously possess the
1:09:32
energy to heal it. We the universe is always
1:09:37
balanced that way. So if there is, and that could
1:09:40
be your individual wounds, it could be a wound in a community
1:09:45
or culture, etcetera, collective wounds.
1:09:49
But but in the end, these wounds exist.
1:09:52
But So what coexists with them is the energy that if you can
1:09:56
get liberate, liberated in a constructive way, is enough to
1:10:01
heal that wound. So I, I look at wounds almost as
1:10:04
capacitors, you know, they hold energy and when they're, but
1:10:07
when they're holding the, the wound energy, it's not liberated
1:10:11
for healing. That's when you get, you know,
1:10:13
the, the bad behaviors and people acting out of their
1:10:16
wounds. And that's what a lot of people
1:10:18
are doing these days. And, and it's, it's amplified
1:10:21
through social media and everything else.
1:10:22
You know, all the trolls, all the people you know, and all the
1:10:24
polarization and the, you know, the politics and everything
1:10:27
else. Everybody's just picking each
1:10:29
other's wounds and and the machine.
1:10:31
Is amplifying that. I mean, so, so it is it's built
1:10:36
to amplify. It is built to amplify that
1:10:38
because the Magdala will respond with click, click, click, click,
1:10:42
click when it's in a fierce day, That's right.
1:10:44
And therefore more ads, more revenue, more control.
1:10:49
The the, the unfortunate circumstance is the, you know,
1:10:52
we're talking about, hey, when when you witness beauty, the
1:10:54
reward is love, right? In this case, when you're
1:10:57
witnessing the opposite of beauty, the reward is dopamine,
1:11:01
right? And you're witnessing fear,
1:11:03
anger, you know, that's you know.
1:11:04
So it's the system is built the opposite of what love is.
1:11:08
It's it's built to to. Exploit, Leverage your bases.
1:11:13
Yeah, your base fears. Yeah, it's it.
1:11:15
It exploits it. Which are deeply programmed in
1:11:18
us because of how long we've dealt with scarcity.
1:11:20
That's right. So the hardest part of my book
1:11:22
for sure is Part 3 on transformation.
1:11:25
How does humanity transform during this time?
1:11:28
And, and you know, I talk, I speak my truth on Love Conquers
1:11:33
fear on this podcast because psychedelics for me have been a
1:11:38
tool, but meditations also been a tool for me.
1:11:42
I've had many experiences where I felt the presence of God that
1:11:48
were really profound without using psychedelics, just just,
1:11:52
you know, moments that I'll never forget.
1:11:54
I can remember exactly where I was, exactly what I was looking
1:11:56
at, exactly how I felt that completely unconditional love.
1:12:03
And, you know, it's, it's, it's important to speak about these
1:12:07
things, you know, responsibly. And, and so that's why that's
1:12:09
why I just want to double click on a couple of these things and
1:12:11
sure, we'll just cover, we'll just cover a couple more and
1:12:14
then close out this chapter of the podcast can move on to some
1:12:17
other things. You know, I've talked on this
1:12:20
podcast quite a bit about Ibogame, and it's because I've
1:12:24
seen the incredible transformation and quite a few
1:12:30
friends as a result of it, and that's the one that seems the
1:12:36
most intimidating of all. That's Level 3.
1:12:39
That's Level 3, but it might be level 4.
1:12:42
If there's a fourth level, it's that right?
1:12:44
It might be the one, Yeah, because it's a very masculine
1:12:47
one, right? And it and I haven't done I've
1:12:50
again, but it's one where if it was trapped in Level 3, I'd want
1:12:54
to like punch its way up into level 4 and like to straighten
1:12:58
out. Oh yeah.
1:12:59
So what? What?
1:13:01
Why? Well, first of all, tell me
1:13:03
about ibogaine and why do you think it works so well.
1:13:07
So ibogaine is the extract from iboga, you know, which is the
1:13:12
the the bark of a tree. Again, I'm not the expert.
1:13:14
I can't remember the name of the tree.
1:13:16
It's in West Africa. It's in West area.
1:13:17
Yeah. And I just watched a.
1:13:19
Documentary on it, it hasn't come out yet, but it's going to
1:13:23
be absolutely amazing. Like these vets going in with
1:13:28
with this doctor in Mexico where it's legal and the
1:13:32
transformation they're having, like these are people literally
1:13:35
they're about to kill themselves or Alcoholics that are just
1:13:38
chronic or heroin addicts. And they come out, you know,
1:13:42
almost every single time, like healed from that, which is
1:13:47
amazing. It's so some of the reporting,
1:13:51
you know, and the things I've observed around Ibogaine or
1:13:55
Iboga or what you're talking about, It's it's a very
1:14:00
masculine, you know, like if you're saying ayahuasca is more,
1:14:03
this is very masculine journeys 12 to 18 hours, you know, so
1:14:07
it's a long journey, maybe more. It's up to even 24 or something.
1:14:11
It can be. I get AI, but I think typically
1:14:13
at least the I think it's 12 to 18.
1:14:18
It has it's sort of a no nonsense.
1:14:22
I'm going to get in there. It's very internal journey.
1:14:23
It's not like going out into the cosmos type of feeling.
1:14:26
It's a very internal journey and it is something that, and this
1:14:31
is kind of the weird thing. There's very healing, not just
1:14:35
on a psychospiritual level as it can be, but literally physically
1:14:41
healing. Meaning like one of my friends
1:14:45
who went through had, he was ready for knee surgery.
1:14:51
Pretty intense guy and, and literally like you hobbled and
1:14:57
couldn't really, you know, walk on his knee that much anymore.
1:15:00
And he said during the journey, he felt like we felt like
1:15:02
nanobots going into his knee and he heard crunching and noises
1:15:06
even right. And he comes out of the journey
1:15:09
and he and this is going 10 years ago, no knee pain and
1:15:14
still his knee is fine. And and that's just one example
1:15:19
of many that I that I've I know about.
1:15:23
So it's this, it's very mythical in this way.
1:15:29
There's very traditional ways that's administered.
1:15:32
You know, if you go to Africa and the way that they do it and
1:15:35
typically you, you know, the guide or shaman is usually kind
1:15:39
of come in with you, you know, into the journey and be in the
1:15:41
space with you and help to guide you is one of the ways that
1:15:44
I've, I've, I've heard it being done.
1:15:47
And it's sometimes it's so much more clinical, like what's going
1:15:49
on with addicts now or or PTSD. The results from a single
1:15:53
journey are startling as far as literally taking people with the
1:15:59
most severe PTSD gone, taking people who are heroin addicts
1:16:04
and the addiction is gone after a single journey.
1:16:07
Some people go back from work, but I've seen it after a single
1:16:11
journey. So it's a very big and powerful
1:16:13
experience. One of its reputations is that
1:16:16
it's the one psychedelic that can kill you.
1:16:19
You have to be screened. It's intense, it can cause your,
1:16:23
you know, your heart to basically stop working.
1:16:27
I think is it's typically a cardiovascular problem that
1:16:30
people you know who have died from it, usually it's because
1:16:34
they took their on some other drug or medication or they're
1:16:36
just very compromised in the cardiovascular level.
1:16:39
And so you, you need to have some screening around it and
1:16:43
it's to be taken extremely seriously.
1:16:46
But when you want to talk about a solution to people who are
1:16:51
otherwise basically hopeless, it's it's like a miracle truck.
1:16:56
Yeah, so, so and that's one where I feel a little better.
1:17:01
And again, depends you who you're vetting.
1:17:04
But are they doing any kind of screening like somebody would
1:17:06
just will take your money and say wait through the experience?
1:17:08
I'd be very worried about they really should be like, you know,
1:17:12
doing some some good right clinical.
1:17:15
Screening, maybe telling you how important it is to do that.
1:17:18
Yeah. Why they're doing?
1:17:19
That yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, they
1:17:21
hopefully are saying no to people, you know, that shouldn't
1:17:25
be doing this medicine because it's, it's a pretty powerful
1:17:28
medicine. Right, right.
1:17:30
Yeah, yeah. You know, Sachin Raja was on the
1:17:33
podcast a few episodes ago, and that was an amazing episode.
1:17:39
And he described part of his Iboga journey as that movie
1:17:45
Fantastic Voyage, where it shrinks down.
1:17:49
He said, literally, I shrunk down in the journey and I'm
1:17:52
writing like kind of shotgun alongside Iboga and I'm going
1:17:56
into my body and seeing all the things that are broken and fix
1:18:02
that, fix that. And he said, I came out with,
1:18:06
you know, all of these years of accumulated injuries from
1:18:10
martial arts. And he's like, yeah, which is
1:18:14
which is astonishing. It's I don't know anything like
1:18:18
that. No, I, I, I, you know, out of
1:18:20
the bearing. Yeah, I've heard some healings,
1:18:23
their degree, but nothing like Iboga.
1:18:26
Nothing like Iboga and doing those those types of healings,
1:18:30
you know, where, where it's a physical, like literally an
1:18:33
orthopedic type of a problem that gets healed.
1:18:36
And I and I people with gut problems, you know, people with,
1:18:41
you know, some other types of neurological problems where it
1:18:46
wasn't a type of problem that would be contraindicated for
1:18:49
doing Uboga. But seemingly, you know, wow,
1:18:53
it's odd they don't have the issue anymore.
1:18:55
So, so it's, it's just, it's, it's amazing.
1:18:59
It's amazing that these things even exist.
1:19:01
I mean, you know, you take a step back and kind of look at
1:19:03
this ontologically. It's like, you know, these
1:19:07
things exist and they coexist with us on this planet and they,
1:19:10
they are literally addressing some of the most existential
1:19:18
challenges that we have as humans, which you know, namely
1:19:22
mortality and, and meaning and all these things.
1:19:26
And and here are these these beautiful things that exist in
1:19:31
nature that can open up our view of things to give some solace.
1:19:38
One of the people I ended up Bill Richards and Doctor
1:19:40
Richardson at the at Johns Hopkins University lab, the
1:19:44
psilocybin lab. And he I think he has since
1:19:47
passed. As a matter of fact, I know he
1:19:48
did recently, but I and I get teary thinking about him because
1:19:53
sometimes the soul is just is so beautiful, you know on this
1:19:57
planet and how they. Just their presence and how they
1:20:02
serve people. And he was a guy that was back
1:20:07
in the 60s wanted to do psilocybin research.
1:20:09
But all the stuff that we talked about earlier in about what this
1:20:12
country did and with the. So he's doing it in Germany and
1:20:14
working over there for a while. But then everything got shut
1:20:17
down. There's no more funding, no more
1:20:18
anything for it. And he in his life interviewed
1:20:21
him. He basically said, you know, I
1:20:23
didn't think in my lifetime I'd ever be back to actually being
1:20:26
able to research this and what they were doing in his lab.
1:20:30
We're taking end of life people, people who are terminally ill
1:20:33
with cancer and giving them what they called the heroes dose.
1:20:37
And I believe it was 5 grams of silicide and or mushrooms maybe.
1:20:42
I don't know what they equate to an actual silicide.
1:20:44
Maybe it was 5 pure grams of silicide.
1:20:45
I don't remember which it was. But anyway, and it was a one and
1:20:49
done, you know, and he said people went because imagine
1:20:52
you're facing your own mortality now.
1:20:54
You're going to die in some months and, you know,
1:20:56
treatment's not working your terminal and you got unresolved
1:21:00
problems with your, you know, with your sister.
1:21:02
And you've got, you know, your, your kids not speaking to you
1:21:05
and you know, all the different things about your life.
1:21:07
And it's about to end. And it's all you know, and you
1:21:09
can imagine what the, you know, the psychodynamics of that, the
1:21:12
psychospiritual dynamics of that.
1:21:14
And he's, and he started to go case by case and just describe,
1:21:18
you know, the person's predicting, going through that
1:21:21
whole thing. And then on the other side of it
1:21:25
and what they reported. And it was pretty much 100% of
1:21:28
the people went from angst and fear of dining, dying, to
1:21:33
basically surrendering and saying it's coming.
1:21:36
And it's beautiful. And, and, and to see him talk
1:21:40
about it, to see the glint in his eye and the work that he was
1:21:43
doing and, and, and the tone of how he would talk about these
1:21:49
people as if everyone, you know, wasn't a subject in a, in a
1:21:54
research study, but it but a beloved human soul, you know,
1:21:59
And anyway, it's at least it's magnificent.
1:22:02
So, so you know, I'm might the current work I'm doing now and
1:22:06
I, I tell a story later is, is in a book called faith.
1:22:09
But you know. Well, let's talk about that.
1:22:11
OK, All right, let's talk about that.
1:22:13
I'm I'm curious. I'm curious about about your new
1:22:16
book and and I'm curious about what do you think this whole
1:22:19
reality actually is? Wow.
1:22:22
How long do we have? Yeah, exactly.
1:22:26
Let's give it. Let's give the OR maybe I can, I
1:22:28
can give the short version. I don't know.
1:22:29
There you go. I speculate about a lot of
1:22:33
things, but I don't know, Right. So this leads to.
1:22:37
So here's a completely no, you know, medicines of any variety
1:22:42
involved, supernatural experience, if you will, or your
1:22:45
mystical experience. Maybe it's a better way to
1:22:46
characterize it. So one of the documentary series
1:22:49
we did was called Christ Revealed and it was on because
1:22:54
we've done some work exploring some dark things to bring to
1:22:58
light about, you know, the pharmaceutical industries, some
1:23:01
other things that, you know, we're like, you know, where
1:23:03
people are getting if poison, you know, GMO's,
1:23:05
pharmaceuticals, you know, it's like the basic themes were
1:23:08
poisoning people for profit, you know, and it's so it's like,
1:23:11
let's can we explore some other subject that's a little bit
1:23:14
lighter. And Mark over has a fork on
1:23:16
that's. True.
1:23:16
It does it, yeah. Yeah, but this is this is
1:23:20
important work to actually contend with.
1:23:22
You can two things can be true at the same time the
1:23:25
Pharmaceutical industry could have and does do a lot of good
1:23:30
yeah, no doubt antibiotics etcetera and at the same time
1:23:34
could do a lot of bad opioids etcetera.
1:23:36
That's right. I mean and the the ways those
1:23:38
sort of just. Like technologies that are, you
1:23:40
know, about intent, it's all about the intent.
1:23:43
And, and, and what I always wanted to bring to light was,
1:23:48
you know, was what people didn't know and basically teach them
1:23:52
how to be discerning around some of this stuff.
1:23:55
And so we explored those things. I mean, GM OS in Monsanto, I
1:24:00
mean, you know, before, before all the court cases came about
1:24:03
and, you know, the truth was known.
1:24:05
We already knew that people were being that this, that glyphosate
1:24:09
was water soluble, it's going to the soil, it's causing cancer.
1:24:12
People are getting very sick. And Monsanto deny, deny, deny.
1:24:15
And they're poisoning people for profit.
1:24:17
And now if you have billions of dollars of, of damages later,
1:24:20
you know, but Oh yeah, they really did do that.
1:24:23
So quit getting into this thing. So we decided, hey, we're going
1:24:28
to do a documentary series on the life of Christ.
1:24:33
And, and I said, I want this to be a real expert.
1:24:36
My, my partner who actually had the idea.
1:24:39
I'm a business partner, Jeff Hayes.
1:24:42
He said he's a gardening one day.
1:24:43
He's the son, He's born in Texas, son of a Baptist
1:24:45
minister, you know, but kind of like he got away from religion,
1:24:51
if you will. And I grew up Catholic, you
1:24:54
know, Italian Catholic, Roman Catholic.
1:24:57
And, but when I got to the point of confirmation, 7th grade
1:25:02
catechism, I just came on. My mom said I, I really, you
1:25:05
know, may have some questions and, and you know, they're
1:25:08
waiting me for even questioning anything, so I stopped.
1:25:11
Going and started hitting up against Orthodoxy.
1:25:13
Yeah, the the orthodoxy was like, you're not to question any
1:25:15
of this. And and I was just literally 7th
1:25:18
grader trying to ask some questions because I had a
1:25:19
logical mind. So anyway, I said, so I left it
1:25:24
all behind. He left it all behind.
1:25:27
And when he suggests, he says I was out guard and he said I
1:25:29
think maybe we should go explore Christ.
1:25:31
And I was like, I'd like to finish that story.
1:25:34
So we subtitled it. The history, the evidence and
1:25:38
the inspiration. There's three things I want to
1:25:39
explore. I want to look at what's the
1:25:41
historical record? What is the evidence that
1:25:44
validates it and how has this inspired people?
1:25:48
And it was an epic because we, you know, we filmed the
1:25:53
Christian apologetic community across the United States.
1:25:55
But then we took a film crew to Israel for a couple of weeks, a
1:25:58
little bit over a couple of weeks.
1:25:59
And we went all the way up from the Galilee all the way down to
1:26:03
Jerusalem and everywhere else and, and got the whole story.
1:26:07
And it was magnificent. It was a life changing
1:26:11
experience for me. You know, it's one thing to hear
1:26:14
about the summer on the mountain, but it's another thing
1:26:17
to go stand next to the amphitheater where it happened
1:26:20
and hear somebody tell the story of it and bring it to life,
1:26:23
etcetera, those types of things. So it was really and you know,
1:26:26
being in the archaeological digs with these archaeologists was
1:26:29
really amazing and just so having the conversations.
1:26:32
So at one point in this whole. It's here and getting back to
1:26:36
the most interesting man on earth thinking Here you are, I'm
1:26:40
going to do that too. I've done a lot of things of I
1:26:46
was, we were up on Mount Carmel overlooking the valley of
1:26:51
Armageddon. So it's a very biblical place
1:26:53
with a lot of prophecy around it, etcetera.
1:26:55
And there's a little church up there and I'm standing out on
1:26:59
the edge where we're looking. We, we did our filming and, you
1:27:03
know, the guide was kind of explaining a couple of things to
1:27:06
us. And I need to go use the
1:27:07
restroom. So I, I, you know, excuse
1:27:09
myself. I go walking and I walk into
1:27:12
this restroom middle of the day and it's, you know, it's kind of
1:27:16
an outdoor place. You enter tile, you know, echoey
1:27:19
tiles and so on. Nobody else in there.
1:27:22
And as I'm standing at the urinal, I hear a voice and it
1:27:27
says you will write a book and it will be called faith.
1:27:34
And now we all have, you know, the voices in our heads or like
1:27:38
you're having the conversation in there.
1:27:40
If you're in journey space, you know, those things are
1:27:42
happening. This was like, you know,
1:27:45
external mechanical hit my eardrums type of a experience,
1:27:49
not an in my head, you know, kind of experience.
1:27:52
And I literally, I look over both shoulders.
1:27:55
There's I'm look and I'm like I, I, I was panicked for a few
1:27:58
because it's like nobody was there.
1:28:00
It was the clearest thing I ever heard.
1:28:03
I had no, you know, this wasn't anything that was on my mind.
1:28:07
So and I think, you know, I kept myself busy and been trying to
1:28:13
avoid it, you know, but now I'm realizing and, you know,
1:28:17
everybody could say, you know, you can, you can say, you know,
1:28:19
it was, was it an auditory hallucination?
1:28:21
Am I imagining it? You know, I was caught up in a
1:28:23
moment. I don't know my truth as far as
1:28:26
how I experienced. I heard a voice sounded like the
1:28:29
voice of God. You know, in a sense.
1:28:32
I'm not saying it was specifically the God talking to
1:28:34
me, but it was like this billowing equity voice and it
1:28:38
was a commandment. You will write a book.
1:28:41
It will be called faith. Yeah, full stop.
1:28:45
That was all that was, said it. Didn't add the full stop but.
1:28:47
No, no, no, no. Just joking.
1:28:49
Yeah, Yeah. So this is.
1:28:51
A little modern language. Let's take full stop.
1:28:54
Do not ask. Oh, you need to write this right
1:28:56
now. I want it done tomorrow.
1:28:58
OK, I want the introduction done by next week, right?
1:29:02
So so. And I want to review it and I
1:29:05
want it under budget. And you, it's one of those kinds
1:29:08
of things. Sorry.
1:29:10
No, no, you're, you're right. Yeah.
1:29:12
It's submitted to these publishers.
1:29:14
And it's just one of these kinds of things that, you know, and
1:29:17
you, you, you literally, I'd lay, you know, I'd lay in bed
1:29:20
sometimes and I'd, I'd be like that, you know, maybe I just
1:29:23
imagine. But no, it, it's, it's as sure
1:29:26
as I'm sitting here having this conversation that really
1:29:28
happened. Amazing.
1:29:29
So, so I, you know, that was about 7 years ago.
1:29:33
Yeah. Some close to seven years ago.
1:29:35
And I, you know, kind of took a couple of runs that I wasn't
1:29:38
sure, but then finally, you know, I, I've gotten very
1:29:41
serious about it now because I'm realizing, you know, what, what
1:29:44
happened to buy a truck? And, and I never wrote the book.
1:29:46
I mean that that would be a pretty bad thing because this
1:29:49
literally was an assignment given to me and I should be
1:29:52
taking it a lot more seriously and I shouldn't be too busy to
1:29:55
do it. So I, I've, I've now started
1:29:58
getting into it and, and as I started really contemplate
1:30:03
faith. What do we mean by faith?
1:30:04
You know, is it just a religious faith?
1:30:06
Because the concept of faith has been, I don't want to say
1:30:10
hijacked by religion. I don't want to put religion
1:30:12
down or religions down. One of the most important things
1:30:15
I heard while I was in Israel interviewing some of these, you
1:30:19
know, people in Christianity say is that it's not about ritual
1:30:25
and it's not about religion, it's about relationship.
1:30:28
So in the Christian sense, it's relationship with, with Christ,
1:30:32
with Jesus, right? And, and having a meaningful
1:30:34
relate and not about, you know, Jesus said, I don't, I don't
1:30:37
care. You know, how you profess your
1:30:39
faith in the public square, square.
1:30:41
It's, you know, now I'm paraphrasing.
1:30:42
It's, you know, when you're home alone at 2:00 in the morning,
1:30:44
what's your faith? That's that's really what
1:30:46
matters. That's a very big paraphrase,
1:30:48
incidentally, but that's a sense of it.
1:30:50
And I think that, you know, in this particular case, I was
1:30:54
like, so there's that there's religious faith that there's, I
1:30:58
have faith in you as my friend, right?
1:31:00
And as a fellow human that has a purpose, that is, you know, a
1:31:03
beautiful purpose to go out and do things.
1:31:05
So I have faith that you're you, you can and are will do that and
1:31:08
that you're going to have an impact in the world.
1:31:10
I have, I have unquestioned faith in my wife and her
1:31:13
intuition and so on, faith in maybe some of my own things or
1:31:18
abilities that I can do. And, and so there's, there's
1:31:21
different types of faith and then there's faith in God,
1:31:24
right? You know, the, if there's an
1:31:26
ultimate faith, if you will, in that respect, a faith in, you
1:31:30
know, our institutions or lack of faith in our institute.
1:31:33
So there's, there's varying forms of faith.
1:31:35
So what do we mean by faith is one question then I had to ask,
1:31:38
where would, you know, people keep talking about spirituality.
1:31:41
You know, I asked the question, how do you define spirituality?
1:31:44
And I don't get much of an, I get like sort of a, a vague
1:31:48
answer, you know, well, it's about, you know, you know, it's
1:31:51
about just what you believe in and higher powers and so on and
1:31:55
so forth. And, you know, my definition of
1:31:57
spirituality is, is a philosophy of purpose as it applies to
1:32:01
existence. You know that's that's.
1:32:02
That's a great. Definition, yeah, yeah.
1:32:04
So you love that yeah. And so that's that's what
1:32:07
spirituality is now what's your spirituality?
1:32:09
You know, and, and. And some people might say well,
1:32:11
I don't believe there is any purpose in existence and that's,
1:32:13
you know, kind of sad but. And depressing, but but anyway,
1:32:17
the core core. Mantra of all of Judaism, this
1:32:20
took you now long, which is to repair the world.
1:32:22
Yeah, that's that's what drives Judaism.
1:32:25
And that and so that's a collective purpose of Judaism,
1:32:27
right? Yeah.
1:32:28
So so and it's really coming back from Israel.
1:32:33
I get my 23 andme done, I find out I'm 49 point something
1:32:35
percent Askanasi Chu. Yeah.
1:32:37
I know. You told me that, So what a what
1:32:39
a nice surprise that was. So anyway, so fate, so it starts
1:32:46
here because I, you know, I might, I have a background.
1:32:49
I developed neurodiagnostic technologies.
1:32:51
I got patents on it's a, you know, I understand kind of the
1:32:55
didactic, you know, science side of things.
1:32:58
And I, I, I know how to think that way, but I also know that
1:33:01
it's limited, you know, it can't explain everything.
1:33:05
You know, you and I were driving in the car and you're having a
1:33:08
conversation with someone about, you know, consciousness who's,
1:33:10
you know, right. Very bright guy, obviously.
1:33:12
Scientist. Yeah, yeah.
1:33:13
And, you know, talking about, you know, the different views on
1:33:15
it and so on. And I said maybe I was getting
1:33:17
out of the car because you were still the phone.
1:33:18
Like, hey, before you don't ask him what his definition of
1:33:21
consciousness. I did.
1:33:22
I did. Did you?
1:33:23
Sure. Later.
1:33:23
OK. Yeah.
1:33:24
I want to hear that. So it's to me, I always have to
1:33:26
say that we have to define our terms because you.
1:33:29
Believe it's fundamental, by the way.
1:33:31
So he thinks consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the brain.
1:33:34
No, no, no. He believes it's fundamental.
1:33:36
Oh, fundamental. OK, Yeah, it.
1:33:38
Actually, is the root of existence.
1:33:40
That's what I believe. So he's not a materialist.
1:33:41
OK, Well, he's not in that sense.
1:33:44
So in that sense, you know, there's so many nuances.
1:33:47
But anyway, so I looked at faith and I said, OK, what do we mean
1:33:52
by this? And why does this, why does
1:33:54
faith even exist? Why is this?
1:33:56
Why? Why would a concept such as
1:33:58
faith exist at all? And I started to realize, you
1:34:02
know, if we look at the existential angst of being a
1:34:05
human, it's tied to mortality. Right here we are.
1:34:09
We're conscious, which you know, which in part means we're self
1:34:11
aware. We have an existence.
1:34:15
And consciousness is also a time machine.
1:34:18
Meaning I can right now think about a pair.
1:34:21
I just did. I talked about conversation that
1:34:22
happened in the past. It's not now, it's in the past.
1:34:25
I can go back much further if I wanted, and I could also go into
1:34:29
the future with my consciousness, right, and think
1:34:32
about the future. Or I could be present here with
1:34:34
you right now. So it's sort of this time
1:34:37
machine, but a part of the package deal is now I can
1:34:40
contemplate my own mortality. I can contemplate the fact that
1:34:44
I exist. And it can be pretty horrifying
1:34:49
to start to really contemplate the fact that one day I will not
1:34:53
exist. I can't remember if it was to
1:34:57
ask you one, one of the Russian authors, he said something like
1:35:00
this. He said if, if we humans really
1:35:03
contemplated our mortality, we would scream and scream and
1:35:06
scream and never stop screaming. It's like because it's, it's,
1:35:09
you know, without now this without faith, meaning that's
1:35:12
without faith, without faith. As I was going to say, if you if
1:35:15
you contemplate it and read all the spiritual text, you know the
1:35:20
soul is eternal. But if you don't have.
1:35:22
Faith. That's right.
1:35:24
Now, it's existence, not existence, right?
1:35:27
You know, for all those people who think we're some kind of a
1:35:29
evolutionary accident, you know, that's a random thing which even
1:35:33
the math on that doesn't work, right, So, so.
1:35:37
Ray Kurzweil and the Singularis Mirror says that it's starting
1:35:41
to question that the math on that doesn't work.
1:35:43
Right. It, it can.
1:35:44
I mean, you know, that's a maybe a future podcast conversation,
1:35:48
but I've done a lot of thinking about that.
1:35:51
So where's this lead that then I look myself, but wait a minute.
1:35:58
There's also a neurobiological basis for faith, meaning that
1:36:04
they've done fMRI studies and other studies where if I put you
1:36:08
into states of prayer or different types of states of
1:36:12
faith, there's specific parts of the brain that activate, meaning
1:36:18
we are wired to have faith. So I my own sort of conclusion
1:36:26
out of this is that we have this existential angst.
1:36:31
We're basically orphans in the cosmos that don't know who our
1:36:34
parents are, right? Where do we come from where we
1:36:36
go? We're orphans and we're
1:36:37
wondering and we know that one day, you know, our life ceases
1:36:42
in the in this human form. And but, you know, and that's
1:36:47
horrifying, but at the same time, we're wired to also have
1:36:52
this thing called faith and they, and that maybe it's, you
1:36:57
know, what my own thought around it is, is that maybe the part of
1:37:03
our journey here is to learn about faith is the, you know, is
1:37:06
the is that we are given the challenge of mortality and, and
1:37:11
the concept of non existence. And we're also given the
1:37:14
equipment to transcend that challenge and that we're we're
1:37:18
meant to engage in that. And that faith, beauty, you
1:37:23
know, that these are fundamental elements of our existence that
1:37:28
can help us as individuals transcend, you know, any angst
1:37:33
that we might have about our existence and then collectively
1:37:36
as humanity, because when we have faith in these things, it's
1:37:39
A, and if it's a shared faith, it becomes something
1:37:42
extraordinarily beautiful, extraordinarily powerful.
1:37:45
So, you know, so the book I, what I did is I, I, I've got now
1:37:48
an introduction done. I've got the first chapters on
1:37:50
faith and beauty, and then I have a second chapter.
1:37:53
And then the rest of the book is going to be been going out and
1:37:56
interviewing physicists, mathematicians, theologians and
1:38:00
other people since. So because I don't want to be
1:38:02
just my, because that was my hold up.
1:38:04
It's like, you know, I, I certainly have some views on
1:38:06
faith and I've dug deeper into them since I got the assignment.
1:38:09
But my Eureka moment was, oh, I, what was I doing out there?
1:38:15
I was doing a document. I'm interviewing experts.
1:38:18
That's what I'm, that's really what I'm good at.
1:38:21
It's not for me to be the thinker to have to figure all
1:38:23
this out. It's for me to go around like I
1:38:26
did with these experts for this film and now talk to people
1:38:29
about faith because I know how to have the conversation and ask
1:38:32
the questions. But I'd like to get a bunch of
1:38:34
different views and have every different chapter now be a
1:38:37
different experts view on this. Well, the.
1:38:39
Beautiful thing about this amount know if you realize
1:38:42
there's synchronicity happening right now is that a big part of
1:38:46
the purpose of love conquer sphere as a podcast and a book
1:38:50
is to bring science and spirituality back together.
1:38:53
And you're on that same journey yes you know because you're
1:38:55
going to interview scientist about neurochemically what
1:39:00
happens with fate, you know, with people in states of prayer
1:39:04
etcetera. Yeah.
1:39:05
And so you're, you're also doing that.
1:39:08
That's been an attention of mine for decades.
1:39:10
Yeah. I've always because, you know, I
1:39:12
had this interesting upbringing because my mother was also very
1:39:15
much into Eastern philosophies. And so I, you know, the
1:39:19
separation of science and spirituality.
1:39:21
You know, to me, I always said these things have to they, they,
1:39:24
they converge at a point, you know, and and necessarily so,
1:39:29
So, So when you said that I was like, here's a man after my own
1:39:33
heart and you know, you, you, you have the contacts and the,
1:39:37
and the brain. Power to really do this
1:39:38
effectively well the likewise so so here here's the I'll take a
1:39:43
crack at what this reality is great and you know none of us
1:39:47
can really know you know I've got lots of friends who believe
1:39:52
it's all a simulation etcetera. I think that, but first of all,
1:39:57
I don't think it's a simulation. I've written an article about
1:40:00
that that people can find on my Medium.
1:40:03
I should probably put it on my sub stack, but it's on my medium
1:40:07
and I wrote it with Byron Reese, who was on this podcast on
1:40:10
episode 12. We're talking about the path to
1:40:13
utopia, but essentially I think that we, our souls are eternal
1:40:19
and you know, they're light in love and they're embodied in our
1:40:22
physical vessels. And the point from lifetime to
1:40:26
lifetime is to rediscover and manifest love in this earth
1:40:34
school and constantly allow our souls to grow and eventually
1:40:41
ascend. And the highest level soul just
1:40:44
essentially merges with God and stops reincarnate.
1:40:50
And so as long as you're reincarnating, it means that you
1:40:55
still have lots of lessons to learn.
1:40:57
And I actually know what my one of my big karmic lessons is to
1:41:01
learn in this lifetime. And, and so the whole point of
1:41:07
the Earth school is to have it be the place where we
1:41:13
collectively allow each other to ascend.
1:41:16
So we are having the task from lifetime to lifetime in
1:41:22
different circumstances, some of them really hard circumstances,
1:41:25
some of them not as hard circumstances, some born to, you
1:41:28
know, in, in areas that are really suffering, you know,
1:41:34
areas like Gaza, for example, and foreign to parents that are
1:41:39
really going to make them suffer by parents that are really
1:41:42
broken. I'm not saying all parents in
1:41:44
Gaza, just example like as those people born in America to
1:41:47
parents that like I was mentioned with, with Jen Dodie
1:41:51
that really made him suffer. And that the whole point is to
1:41:57
rediscover how to allow love to conquer fear within yourself,
1:42:02
you know, and when you witness beauty, I think the two are so
1:42:06
entertained. They are as we talked about.
1:42:09
And then you once you've done that inner work, which is really
1:42:13
hard to do actually, because you got to do a lot of deprogramming
1:42:17
to actually realize like, you know, where you're suffering is,
1:42:21
then you can do that with others and then humanity can ascend.
1:42:24
And if everybody did that work, we're for sure going to make it
1:42:27
that. If everybody did that work, I'm
1:42:29
100% certain that we make it to the age of abundance for all.
1:42:32
The only reason I couched that with the IT is some 95% certain
1:42:36
and Byron and I really got into it on that episode because he's
1:42:39
100% certain and he was, he challenged me.
1:42:41
He's like, I don't really think you're 95%.
1:42:44
I think you just want to believe you're 95% certain.
1:42:46
So he and I went back and forth on that is that we have created
1:42:52
real weapons like nuclear weapons and, and, and, and we
1:42:58
are constantly in this manipulation machines.
1:43:01
And so we have to transcend that.
1:43:04
We have to transcend that. And this next generation I'm
1:43:06
very hopeful for because social media use is plummeting, believe
1:43:11
it or not, a generation use of alcohol is plummeting.
1:43:16
You know, there is a consciousness awakening underway
1:43:19
and it's almost like Neo and the Matrix.
1:43:22
We need to stop the bullets and just stop them in midair.
1:43:27
And the Matrix is here. It's just a self created prison
1:43:32
for people that are using putting profits over people, as
1:43:37
Jason Carp would say. Yeah, episode 3.
1:43:40
He was fantastic on that episode and you and I are lucky enough
1:43:43
to see him tonight. Yeah.
1:43:46
He's going to blow the roof off of of the house for that speech
1:43:49
he's going to get tonight. He is one of the best speakers
1:43:52
I've ever seen when he really gets on stage and gets going.
1:43:57
So. So that's what I think it is,
1:44:00
you know, now simulation theorists could certainly say,
1:44:03
well, that's all fine and dandy, but it's still a simulation.
1:44:06
And they might be right. I don't know.
1:44:08
I, I, I personally, the part, the problem I have with
1:44:12
simulation theory is that it, it's, it is a funny Venn diagram
1:44:17
because atheist and simulation theorists actually have a big
1:44:21
overlap, is that there has to be a creator of the simulation.
1:44:26
And why was the creator of the simulation wanting to manifest?
1:44:31
Love is the highest vibratory field in the universe.
1:44:34
You know, love is an opener here is the contractor and
1:44:38
everything's vibration in the universe where you go down the
1:44:41
quantum level. And so so it just it just
1:44:44
doesn't logically compute for me that that it would all just be
1:44:49
kind of like a computer simulation and that the prime
1:44:54
creator of that simulation would would be watching us in the
1:44:59
simulation and just saying, all right, now I, you know, to quote
1:45:04
UN quote win this game like you have to manifest love.
1:45:09
But you know, it's an interesting thought experiment
1:45:11
and nobody knows. There's a great book.
1:45:15
I, well, it's actually a short story I just finished recently
1:45:18
called The Egg. This, this gentleman,
1:45:22
Christopher Michael, who actually took my portraits for
1:45:24
Love Conquers Fear. He was, he was so kind.
1:45:26
He's a very famous photographer. He, he, he does this for the
1:45:33
National Academy of Sciences. And he's just like, I love, love
1:45:35
conquers fear and I'll take your portrait.
1:45:38
And so he did that, which was incredibly kind.
1:45:41
And he was the one that recommended The Egg by Andy
1:45:44
Weir, because I was talking about Project Hail Mary, a book
1:45:49
that I had recently finished. And I'll say the PSA again on
1:45:52
this episode, do not watch the trailer.
1:45:54
It'll spoil the whole movie, OK? And the movie's coming out next
1:45:57
year. Don't watch the trailer.
1:45:59
OK, I got it. I got a text yesterday.
1:46:01
The crazy people do that, you know, they literally give the
1:46:04
whole movie away and. Not the whole movie but but I
1:46:07
got a text yesterday from a friend saying damn it.
1:46:10
I just listened to your episode with I think it was with Fire
1:46:15
and Reason. It was with Tarot and
1:46:17
unfortunately I just watched the trailer.
1:46:18
Before I listen to your house. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, but
1:46:22
the egg essentially, you know, is about it.
1:46:26
You could read the egg as a simulation, but it's about
1:46:29
basically this reality that we're in.
1:46:31
And it's really brilliantly done.
1:46:34
And when he crosses over in the egg, you know, he's conversing
1:46:39
with with God and God's like, yeah, that was all just created
1:46:43
for you. He's like, what about all the
1:46:44
people? You know, what about my wife and
1:46:46
what about my kids? And it's like, no, that was just
1:46:48
all part of it. They're all non player.
1:46:49
Characters he was the only one right so it's a really funny
1:46:53
yeah yeah, that means one of us is an NPC if he's right like
1:46:59
right now so it is it was really it was really quite quite well
1:47:06
done It was really it was it was quite funny you could also
1:47:10
interpret the egg is it's a simulation for every individual
1:47:13
that is all personalized to their own experience that would
1:47:16
be a great way to interpret it but.
1:47:17
Yeah, And you know, people talk about, you know, what about in
1:47:20
dreams? You know, there's all these
1:47:21
people in your dreams. You never are you.
1:47:22
What are they real? They're not, you know, so, so
1:47:24
and and they deal as real, just as real as you and I having this
1:47:27
conversation right now. It's, you know, what are what
1:47:30
are the things I got in not in medicine, but in in a
1:47:34
psychedelic state. But it was just a very deep
1:47:37
meditative state that I was sometimes just can go far away.
1:47:41
And and the message I got was when you're knocking on the door
1:47:48
of the mystery of life, everything becomes a paradox.
1:47:53
So when you start to come into these sort of paradoxical things
1:47:57
that try to explain reality, you're getting close.
1:48:02
But it's, it, it always with, like I've, I've gone down
1:48:05
trails, many, many trails trying to understand reality.
1:48:09
What is my, what is my view of reality?
1:48:11
What, what are, you know, that whole putting into that whole
1:48:14
philosophy? And I always am coming up
1:48:18
against these paradoxes. Just just like in quantum
1:48:21
physics, right? You know, the, the quantum
1:48:23
enigma, I mean, everything at that quantum scale is
1:48:25
paradoxical, doesn't make any sense, right, compared to our
1:48:29
lived experience on the macro levels.
1:48:32
So I, I think that, you know, and, and there's different
1:48:35
simulation. You're in some respects that
1:48:38
some say it's one guy, you know, 1 entity, if you will, that
1:48:41
created the simulation. Whereas some might say it, you,
1:48:45
some say, oh, no, no, there's, it's kind of like, it's like a,
1:48:48
a game. There's multiple players and you
1:48:50
know, you're just characters, you know, and, and they're, or
1:48:52
you, you're representing somebody else that's playing a
1:48:55
game that's in a, you know, another dimension somewhere
1:48:57
else. I mean, there's these different
1:48:58
explanations and they're sort of fantastical and it's, I find
1:49:02
them, I don't agree with them. I'm with you.
1:49:04
You know, I don't think this is a simulation, but I find the
1:49:09
exploration of the idea useful to try to help figure out with.
1:49:14
So OK, I know I shouldn't say I know, but that one I'm, I'm I'm
1:49:20
it doesn't, I don't find truth in it, you know, ultimate truth
1:49:22
in it. However, the idea of NPCS and
1:49:26
start to think about, well, you know, here I am, here you are.
1:49:28
But we have these dreams and these things happen, you know,
1:49:31
it, it, it's useful to help shape my thinking a little bit.
1:49:33
So, so it's, I, I appreciate the people who put the thought into,
1:49:37
you know, creating it, you know. Some of my some of my closest
1:49:41
friends are simulation theorists.
1:49:42
Are they? And it's and it's fun to talk
1:49:45
with them about it. But you know what I what I wrote
1:49:48
in that article I wrote with Byron Reese where we said, no,
1:49:51
we're not living in simulation. Is that to another problem with
1:49:55
it is that it's you know that that same in this case, it would
1:50:00
be simulations all the way down. Turtles all sweep.
1:50:04
And so if the creator of this simulation is also living in a
1:50:10
simulation, and then that one's also living in a simulation,
1:50:14
etcetera, there's no end to that's right, That so it's, it's
1:50:18
that that's a it can lead you to a nihilistic worldview instead
1:50:23
of that this beautiful reality that, you know, you start with
1:50:26
beauty and how beauty is love that, that whatever this is,
1:50:33
it's incredibly beautiful and it's incredibly rooted in Lev.
1:50:36
And we know that the more you lean into that, the happier you
1:50:40
are and it's lasting happiness. It's not like the type of
1:50:44
happiness you get from having some fancy meal and, you know,
1:50:49
the taste buds on your tongue last for a very short period of
1:50:52
time or, you know, buying some fancy item in a purse or
1:50:56
whatever it is. And, and that the satisfaction
1:51:00
of that waning we're talking about, you know, the real
1:51:03
happiness, which in Christianity is the Kingdom of God is done
1:51:06
within, right? That's real happiness, and
1:51:09
that's faith it. It yes and the IT it's a
1:51:14
different kind of knowing right and some of yourself faith is
1:51:19
you know, believing in something the absence of evidence but then
1:51:21
I had you know I go back and I said but whatever by evidence
1:51:24
what will you accept this evidence is is my own feeling
1:51:29
that feels very true to me not not evidence you know So what do
1:51:34
we mean by evidence so. You know, can I just jump in on
1:51:38
that? Yeah, because one of the things
1:51:40
when you recovering that earlier I was going to say is Evan
1:51:42
Alexander, he's going to be on this podcast.
1:51:45
He wrote proof of he's great. Yeah, I read it.
1:51:46
I read this amazing, amazing book and the second book, The
1:51:49
Math of Heaven, just as good. But in Proof of Heaven,
1:51:55
honestly, the evidence he needed as a neurosurgeon is to go
1:51:58
through it himself because he had pretty much lost his faith.
1:52:02
He was having patients come back from near death saying, Evan, I
1:52:07
saw this. No, it's just a hallucination.
1:52:09
So you know, God, the teacher, you know, suffering as a teacher
1:52:14
put him in the ultimate situation and he they still
1:52:18
don't know why he got E coli powered meningitis.
1:52:22
It literally eats you from the inside.
1:52:24
I put in your brain and he comes out of this coma having had this
1:52:29
experience the whole time in coma where he was supposed to be
1:52:31
brain dead of seeing heaven and being given a tour of how it all
1:52:36
works. And that book is mystical and
1:52:39
magical and beautiful and movie that here so many.
1:52:42
Times and, and what's interesting is suddenly now
1:52:47
experience became evidence for him, right?
1:52:51
That's right. And and even though it's not
1:52:54
duplicatable, you know, but you know, as far As for other people
1:52:57
necessarily and all the other things they might tick off but
1:53:02
two things happened #1 the experience is so real and so
1:53:05
profound that he's unequivocal. You know, it's, this is real.
1:53:10
Number 2 is that he can write about the experience and share
1:53:16
it through communication and we could read his experience in, in
1:53:22
our own sense, self sense truth, see and and and it moves you.
1:53:28
It moves you. There's there's there's not a
1:53:31
part of it that I was reading where I must like this is just a
1:53:34
bunch of hokey. It like moves you, it shifts
1:53:37
you. It that like it hits you in the
1:53:40
heart, you know, you see beauty, you know describes it's
1:53:44
undescribed. The whole thing, it's, it's
1:53:46
extraordinary. And that's to me, you know, And
1:53:49
so I tell people it's like, listen, I understand the, the
1:53:52
intellectual mind. You know, when I'm having
1:53:55
emotional challenges or mind challenges, you know, I have my,
1:53:58
my, my wife calls them by not mini mantras, but something,
1:54:03
something like that. Because I'll, I'll just pause
1:54:06
for a moment and I say to myself, I have thoughts, but I'm
1:54:10
not my thoughts. I have a mind, but I'm not my
1:54:14
mind. I have emotions, but I'm not my
1:54:17
emotions, I'm that which can observe them and and this is.
1:54:23
That's your soul. That's my soul.
1:54:26
And when you can have a sense of knowing because you're when you
1:54:34
experience truth and you know it, you know, and that's where
1:54:37
you have faith. It's not that's not, you know,
1:54:40
in the absence of evidence, it is saying the strongest of
1:54:43
evidence in many respects is the fact that I can read Evan
1:54:47
Alexander's book and find a paragraph in it that is like
1:54:52
strikes my soul, the deepest part of me in a way that I know
1:54:59
is true. You know, so and and it can be
1:55:02
denied and you can, you know, everybody can everybody's
1:55:05
welcome to their way of looking at it.
1:55:07
But my admonition to the people who are so much in there's the
1:55:13
the scientism community, if you will, that of course they don't
1:55:16
like it's pejorative term. But, you know, with the people
1:55:18
who worship at the altar of the double-blind, placebo-controlled
1:55:21
trial is, is that that you're missing it.
1:55:27
You're missing the most important part of the human
1:55:29
experience. And, and your work is should be
1:55:33
celebrated. It's beauty, it's great work,
1:55:34
it's beautiful work. It advances things that help
1:55:36
humanity. There's nothing wrong with that.
1:55:39
But you're missing the important stuff, you know, so, so I, I
1:55:44
think that you know, it's. You can out intellectualize the
1:55:48
beauty out of everything you can.
1:55:50
You can stop seeing it, or you can start, or you can say, Oh
1:55:53
yeah, that that that flower's pretty.
1:55:55
But you're not getting the significance of the fact that
1:55:58
you're witnessing beauty at a moment in time and you're not
1:56:01
letting it in to enrich you, you know?
1:56:04
And and that's that, you know. It's, there's this beautiful
1:56:08
story, I think, I think it was referenced in, it might have
1:56:11
even been referenced in the map of heaven where the Buddha comes
1:56:16
in for a sermon and the only thing that he has in his hand is
1:56:25
a Lotus flower. And he stands up there for two
1:56:29
hours and says nothing and just holds that and everybody there
1:56:36
gets the message. That's it.
1:56:38
All the beauty of the universe, everything you need, all the
1:56:43
complexity, everything is right here, it's right there.
1:56:46
It's that that's beautiful. That's a beautiful story.
1:56:50
No pun, but I, you know, it's, I think in the end it really does
1:56:55
become that simple. You know, really it can get
1:56:59
enormously complex. But I think it was Oliver
1:57:02
Wendell Holmes that said something to you.
1:57:04
Effective. I wouldn't give a fig for
1:57:07
simplicity on this side of complexity.
1:57:10
If I'd give my right arm for simplicity on the far side of
1:57:12
complexity. And it was a little bit
1:57:14
paraphrased, but the idea being that when you like 1 + 1 = 2 is
1:57:19
a simple equation, E equals MC squared is also a very simple
1:57:24
equation, right? But the complexity arc that I
1:57:27
had to get through to land on E equals MC squared.
1:57:29
And that's, and I believe we're all searching for that we're,
1:57:33
you know, the people who are on some type of a path, some type
1:57:36
of a spiritual journey that we're all getting into the
1:57:40
complexity of all the different theory of simulation theory
1:57:43
versus this versus that, all, all the different things that we
1:57:45
could talk about. And, and it's wonderful to be in
1:57:48
the swirl of all these conversations and complexity.
1:57:52
But when you, when you become the master, when you get to the
1:57:54
other side of it, you're just holding up the Lotus power, you
1:57:58
know, and I've said you don't have to say a word.
1:58:03
And, and I just love that. I just love that story and I, I
1:58:05
wish it for everybody. You know, I just wish that that
1:58:09
experience for everybody. Well, what, what we're preaching
1:58:12
on here is a deep love for all of humanity, for all and all.
1:58:17
It means all. It means the IT means everybody.
1:58:20
It means every, every country, you know, the people struggling
1:58:24
and the poorest countries in the world.
1:58:27
We just have unprecedented amount of abundance here in
1:58:30
America. We would have made the Romans
1:58:32
blush with what we have. And this, this final exam that
1:58:39
we're in, you know, with God, which really came to me from a
1:58:44
journey, is that it's testing us to say, can you transcend?
1:58:51
Can you realize the fact that you're 99.9% the same DNA wise?
1:58:59
Can you realize the fact there's divinity within you?
1:59:02
Can you realize the fact that there's all this programming
1:59:06
that you need to transcend? You know, 2 babies don't,
1:59:09
they're not next to each other thinking I'm going to be a man,
1:59:13
you're going to be a woman, I'm going to be a Muslim, you're
1:59:16
going to be a Jew. I'm going to be in this cast.
1:59:18
You're going to be in that cast. You know, my parents are
1:59:20
wealthy. Your parents are all this just
1:59:23
whatever. You're just the divinity, the
1:59:26
beauty within us all. So I think we should close.
1:59:31
We should close here because what I'd like to do, Patrick, is
1:59:35
I like to have you back on when the Facebook is out totally.
1:59:38
They could talk. We could really talk about that
1:59:41
and and just, I mean, I could spend literally all day long
1:59:45
talking with you. And I know that we're going to
1:59:47
spend most of the rest of the day talk going well off camera.
1:59:51
But I just want to say, you know, from Bond, my heart, I
1:59:54
love your heart. I love that you have your soul
1:59:57
mate with Lori. She is amazing.
2:00:00
I love that we got to witness true beauty with Lincoln and
2:00:05
Julie's wedding. It was unbelievably incredible,
2:00:09
like the most beautiful that I've never ever been to.
2:00:12
And I love the fact that tonight you and I get to witness beauty
2:00:16
with Jason on stage and his wife and children watching their time
2:00:21
tonight. How great.
2:00:22
Amazing. Great.
2:00:23
I'm looking forward to that very much and just love you brother,
2:00:25
and love you too and thank. You for out so much light in the
2:00:28
world. Yeah, as as you are.
2:00:30
Your magnificent. So thank you.
2:00:31
Thank you. Thanks everybody again for
2:00:33
tuning in to Love Conquers Fear. Stay tuned.
2:00:38
Oh my gosh, the line up coming up is unbelievable.
2:00:43
I'm going to be recording John Mackey soon.
2:00:45
That's going to be super fun because he and I have so many
2:00:49
very deep conversations and he's a very different type of
2:00:52
thinker. And just so many more.
2:00:56
The one that I'm recording later on this week that you'll see
2:01:00
soon is going to be magical. So stay tuned and thanks again
2:01:05
for all of the good words you're giving out there for all the
2:01:08
shares. I want to emphasize there's no
2:01:12
advertising on this. I'm just self funding it.
2:01:14
This is my love letter to humanity.
2:01:17
So the more you can put this message out there with me in the
2:01:21
world, it's going to help people.
2:01:22
And that's all that I'm trying to do here is to hopefully allow
2:01:27
us to ascend. And I think that we will.
2:01:30
I say I'm 95% certain. Let's get it to 100% for all of
2:01:33
our sakes and, and ultimately have that abundance for all that
2:01:39
God wants us to have and that all of us should want to have,
2:01:42
whether you're religious or spiritual or not.
2:01:46
Thanks again.