Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / The Big Lebowski & Florida Man Are Delicious w/ Ephraim Herschmann

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The Big Lebowski & Florida Man Are Delicious w/ Ephraim Herschmann · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

• 0:00
  I live in South Florida. You're dealing with
• 0:01
  like Florida people. And like Florida people
• 0:03
  is a real thing. It's crazy to see it. You move
• 0:05
  down here, you're like, that's a real thing.
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  Crazy Florida man stories were a part of my daily
• 0:09
  routine when I used to work in radio. The amount
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  of crazy Florida man stories that I was given
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  is insane. Hey, delicious, grab a plate and taste
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  the delicious culture. I'm your host, John Francois.
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  We are feasting on food, pop culture and lifestyle
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  with a business development guru, educator, dad
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  and husband, entertainment, nut and host of the
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  come together with Ephraim Hirschman podcast.
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  It's the one and only Ephraim. Hirshman, how
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  you doing, man? I'm great, man. I'm so happy
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  to be here, John. Thanks for having me. I can
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  already tell this is going to be a great conversation
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  because one, before we started recording, we
• 0:47
  connected on the fact that we have a busy day.
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  We both have four podcast recordings to do. And,
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  uh, can you tell me about like who you're recording
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  today? And if you are already exhausted as I
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  am, because like you're only recording number
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  two. And I'm just like, Oh my God, I don't know
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  if this apple and coffee is going to get me through
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  the rest of the day. I don't know if it will,
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  if it will either, dude, I think you need a.
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  I don't know. I have four, actually this is my
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  first episode that I got started with. I have
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  another show I'm recording with half an hour
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  after this one. And then I'm hosting a doctor
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  in Canada that study, that helps with addiction,
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  particularly with gambling. And that's something
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  that... I've noticed that a lot of my friends
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  and peers and colleagues all have enthusiastically
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  been partaking in recently, you know, a lot of
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  parlay bedding. I'm a big UFC fan, a big NBA
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  fan. We've been seeing a lot of, and you know,
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  throughout the years, the last couple of years
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  I've seen a ton of my friends just begin to throw
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  in these parlays, you know, I got three leg.
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  bet on, you know, on Gagey Patty and whoever
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  it is. And I got, you know, I got, you know,
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  I got the heat winning tonight and I got bam
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  with under 30 and it makes the game more fun.
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  But I've noticed that it's kind of, you know,
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  taking people up. So he and I were going to talk
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  about that. And then and then I'm doing a solo
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  episode after that. Every five, every five guests
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  that I have on my show, I record a solo episode.
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  Just to kind of check in with with the crowd.
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  So that's the that's the for today and It'll
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  be I'm sure it's it's already a lot of fun. So,
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  I mean, I love this work. It's just you talk
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  a lot, you know Yeah, you talk a lot and that
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  could be both fun. It could also be energy draining
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  But at the end of the day you focus on the fact
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  that it's very fulfilling and that you do what
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  you love. So I love that Yeah, no the gambling
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  addiction thing. That is really an interesting
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  discussion I mean, I've only like played the
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  slot machines at a casino in Connecticut when
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  I used to live there. Um, and I got lucky. I
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  like, I think I won like 20 bucks or whatever,
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  but like, I quickly knew that like, oh yeah,
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  like the, I have a better chance of losing all
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  my money than, than gaining money. So when you
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  know how the gambling industry likes to take,
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  take, take from you instead of give, give, give,
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  uh, then, you know, to stay away from it. But
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  you know, there are people that. uh, have probably
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  won a good amount of times and they think, Oh
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  God, like I could keep winning, winning, winning.
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  I'm on a good luck streak. And then you've hit
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  that moment when you're like, fuck, I just spent
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  $20 ,000 and I can't pay my bills. Oh yeah. Oh
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  yeah. Huge problem. I've always been too conservative
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  with my, with my money. And I always think to
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  myself like what I could spend 25 bucks in the
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  casino now and just figure that I'm gonna lose
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  it, or I could spend 25 bucks and get like three
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  Guinnesses, you know, and have a great time.
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  Or here's some live music somewhere and pay a
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  cover charge. And that gives me three hours of
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  entertainment. So I usually like to, you know,
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  kind of lay it. But let me tell you, I mean,
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  like... There is nothing like I bet Justin Gaethje
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  at the White House fight who was the under six
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  to one underdog or something like that, you know,
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  and I just wanted, I just felt, you know, put
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  five, 10 bucks in, see what happens and, and
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  when it hits, you really feel like. You can't
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  be beat. Like it's the dopamine is just incredible.
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  So I'm not faulting anyone for it, but I do think
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  it's I think it's interesting to study on a emotional,
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  psychological level. And, you know, and obviously,
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  you know, listen, I got I got plenty of vices
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  myself, so everyone needs vices. But to, you
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  know, understand where they're coming from and
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  how to deal with them, I think is healthy. What
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  are your vices, Ephraim? I'm curious. Talk about
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  gambling. What other vices do you have that you're
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  willing to share to our audience? Sure. Um, I'm
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  a pretty enthusiastic pot smoker. Um, and, um,
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  and I, and I used to really be into craft beer.
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  Uh, you know, I loved, uh, stouts, barrel H stouts,
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  but, uh, those got expensive quickly. And, um,
• 4:50
  you know, I used to drink IPAs and. I mean, when
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  I say I'd probably have a beer a day, but these
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  IPAs I've found out since becoming buddies with
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  all these brewers are like, I mean, it's like
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  drinking a loaf of bread every single time you
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  drink one. And if you have a double or triple
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  IPA or something like that, you get to eight,
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  nine, 10 % alcohol. Part of the way that it gets
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  that high in alcohol percentage is they have
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  to dump in sugar to convert to alcohol. You know,
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  a lot of times the reason why it's so sweet or
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  the reason why it's so delicious, A, because
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  it is, but it's like the equivalent to drinking
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  one of these, you know, Dunkin' or Starbucks
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  frappuccinos and thinking and calling it a coffee.
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  You know what I mean? Right. You're getting a
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  milkshake. You know, yeah, don't get me started
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  on that. I mean, look, Starbucks, they make their
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  drinks look so sexy, so delicious. It's I mean,
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  yes, it looks like a milkshake. I love milkshakes.
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  That's great. But as someone who has been used
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  to drinking black coffee every day, you then
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  go to a Dunkin or Starbucks and you get their
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  version of coffee. And maybe you want to like,
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  you know, treat yourself and have like a, you
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  know, a whipped creamy caramel frappuccino macchiato
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  latte. And... Yeah. Like you said, it's like,
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  oh my God, you drink it and it's like 95 % just
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  milk and whipped cream and sugar. Like you really,
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  you at least for me, like it too, like sits in
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  you, especially if you used to black coffee,
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  you know, like I used to put stuff in my coffee.
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  I used to do like the sugar and the, and the
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  creamer and all that stuff back in the day when
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  I thought I had to, to make coffee taste good.
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  And what it ended up doing was just making me
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  have to go pee like every two seconds. because
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  of all, like, the sugar and stuff that was in
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  it. And then I tried black coffee, and it's like,
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  oh, not only am I, you know, feeling more of
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  a, like, nice caffeine bitterness to wake me
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  up in the morning, I'm not going to the bathroom
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  as much. And when you're, like, I Uber and Lyft
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  drive to pay the bills in Burlington, Vermont,
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  and it's kind of inconvenient to go to the bathroom,
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  like, every two seconds when it clearly interrupts
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  your day. So, yeah, I get what you mean. I get
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  what you mean. Have you ever tried throwing...
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  Either lemon, like a slice of lemon peel, or
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  a little piece of lemon in your black coffee.
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  No! What sensation does that give? The citrus
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  goes with black coffee beautifully. Having it
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  iced is super refreshing, but having it hot with
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  a black coffee, they really compliment one another.
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  I'm a big fan of it. God, does it make me go
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  poop any more than I already do? I wouldn't throw
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  it in with milk, obviously. If you have your
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  black coffee, you know, just like the way it
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  is, I, you know, I'd have, you know, espresso
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  pot, whatever you want to, whatever you use.
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  Just throw a little lemon, a little lemon peel
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  in. Makes a huge difference. It's really cool.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. As for your other vices,
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  um, uh, pot smoking and, and beer drinking. So
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  the pot smoking thing, it's interesting because
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  like for the, I would say a majority of my life,
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  I just never like got into it. And then, um,
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  it may have been, this was a guest that I recently
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  recorded on the podcast, uh, someone from my
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  old days in Connecticut, uh, that I used to work
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  with and also briefly dated who was a very enthusiastic
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  pot smoker then, and I think is now, and I think
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  I smoke. a little bit of pot with her 10 years
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  ago, and that might have been the first time.
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  If not that, then definitely my wife when she
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  was my girlfriend, and I would like, you know,
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  stay over at her house with her friend and her
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  friend, my god, she's, you know, the Seth Rogen
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  of Vermont Pops, if you could believe it. But
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  no, I mean, I got more into smoking pot with
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  them. And yeah, it's nice and relaxing. I'm one
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  of those people that it just makes me very sleepy
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  very easily. Like just a little is hit. Um, I
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  don't do it often. It's nowadays me and my wife,
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  it's a rare special occasion thing. Like I think,
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  uh, New Year's Eve, and maybe a few months ago
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  when we had a free weekend and we just want to
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  watch TV and relax like we smoke hot. So it's
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  one of those things that we just do, you know,
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  kind of rarely. But yeah, I get it. I mean, you
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  know, people do use it for medicinal purposes,
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  for relaxing purposes. It's a nice thing to have.
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  Yeah, yeah, I mean I also I didn't start I'm
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  30 now I didn't start smoking till I was probably
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  24 25 so after I graduated college and Only always
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  because when I was in high school all the potheads
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  that I that that I'd known were You know they
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  I mean, I'm not I'm not really too pro, like
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  kids or teenagers smoking a ton of pot. There's
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  a lot of data about how, like while your brain
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  is still forming, it makes it a lot more of an
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  addictive substance and it could have a little
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  more of an impact than once your brain's already
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  developed. And like when I was in high school,
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  I used to see my friends, they used to scare
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  me. They used to be like, oh, I can't do anything
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  without smoking. And like these guys used to
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  be cool and they used to get all these girls
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  and then they used to be athletes and then they
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  just stopped caring about anything. And I was
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  like, oh man, I don't want to do anything to
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  do with that. And then when I was in college,
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  I had a bunch of buddies that lived in my apartment,
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  you know, like a whole crew that lived in my
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  apartment complex with me. And they were smart
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  and funny and ambitious and massive potheads.
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  And I was like, I didn't know that this could
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  even exist, man. And, you know, and they're like,
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  well, you know, we're just, you know, they're
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  like, listen, there's, you know, just like there's
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  different types of people in every kind of culture
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  and every kind of world. You know, there's different
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  there's different crews of this. And then I got
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  introduced to The Big Lebowski, which is one
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  of my favorite movies since then by the Coen
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  Brothers. And, you know, that started like a
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  five -year, you know, obsession with that movie.
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  But, you know, you can't watch that movie sober.
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  I mean, it doesn't even mean anything to anyone
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  sober. And I tried. I tried. A decade ago when
• 10:48
  I lived in Iowa, I tried and I was sober. And
• 10:50
  that was my mistake because... Yeah. Like I love
• 10:53
  me some what's the actor's name? Jeff Daniels?
• 10:56
  Jeff Riches. Sorry. I get the Jeffs. No problem.
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  John Goodman. John Goodman. Yeah, John Goodman.
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  Fantastic. Love John Goodman. But yeah, I did
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  get the feeling watching that movie and granted
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  I love other Coen Brothers movies. This particular
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  movie, there was something clear about it where
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  it's like, oh, if I'm not smoking pot, then this
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  is annoying and confusing. So I really want to
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  give The Big Lebowski another watch because it's
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  - You should, bud. And also, I think it's so
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  odd that it's something that you have to become
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  familiar with before you can appreciate it. It's
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  so not anything that most people are exposed
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  to or used to. You know, it's almost like when
• 11:35
  you watch Friends, or How I Met Your Mother,
• 11:37
  or The Office for the second time, or whatever
• 11:41
  it is, and you watch it for the second time.
• 11:43
  At that point, you already kind of know the characters,
• 11:45
  so everything becomes a lot more endearing, and
• 11:46
  a lot more quotable, a lot more on brand with
• 11:50
  who that person is. The same thing with this
• 11:52
  movie. It's so shocking. The first time you watch
• 11:54
  it, you're kind of just scratching your head
• 11:55
  the whole time. And then the second time you
• 11:58
  get around to it, you're like, oh right, he's
• 11:59
  supposed to be doing that. They're supposed to
• 12:02
  be silly in that kind of way. And then what is
• 12:05
  the story of that movie anyway? I don't because
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  all I knew all I saw was because Jeff's character
• 12:09
  His name is like what the dude. Yeah, Lebowski
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  the dude. So what's the point of it? Like is
• 12:14
  it just one big pot fantasy? Or is it like is
• 12:16
  there something more deeper to the story? It's
• 12:18
  a true. It's it's it's funny. It's it's a quote
• 12:21
  -unquote true crime type of movie It's a crime
• 12:23
  -solving movie where there's two guys named Lebowski
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  in California. One of them is this wealthy um,
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  this wealthy handicap gentleman that has this
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  super hot young girlfriend obviously is not interested
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  in dating him. And then there's the dude who's
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  also named Lebowski. Doesn't go by the name Lebowski,
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  really. And the rich Lebowski's girlfriend disappears
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  after she owes money all over town to everyone.
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  And the people coming to collect inadvertently
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  drop in on the stoner dude. And they start looking
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  for money from him. That's the famous, where's
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  the money Lebowski line that society loves. And
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  then And then he cuts a deal with everyone, basically,
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  with the kidnappers and the girl and the other
• 13:13
  Lebowski to basically try and broker a return
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  in a very stoner -ish, incapable, hysterical
• 13:20
  kind of way. And they end up being right, which
• 13:23
  is the craziest part of the entire movie. So
• 13:26
  it's a cult movie. It's classic. It's timeless.
• 13:31
  It's extremely quotable. And the gentleman that
• 13:36
  plays Donnie, who's the guy from Boardwalk Empire?
• 13:40
  Steve Buscemi. Is he in the movie? Thank you.
• 13:42
  I'm sorry. I'm losing my mind. Yeah, and he's
• 13:45
  in that too. So if you haven't seen it, with
• 13:47
  all that in mind, I would say that that's definitely
• 13:50
  worthwhile. but you have to like, there's a lot
• 13:52
  of factories, you gotta be ready for it. Yeah,
• 13:54
  Steve Buscemi, he's interesting because like
• 13:56
  if you want to watch a Coen Brothers movie or
• 13:58
  like any Adam Sandler movie from like the 90s
• 14:01
  or 2000s or Boardwalk Empire, which he's phenomenal
• 14:03
  in, Steve Buscemi is the guy and he is such an
• 14:07
  anti -type. in Hollywood because you would get
• 14:10
  the impression that, oh, to be a successful actor
• 14:12
  or actress in Hollywood, you have to have a certain
• 14:14
  look. And Steve Buscemi looks like he has smoked
• 14:17
  10 packs a day for God knows how long. He looks
• 14:21
  like he doesn't eat much because he's too busy
• 14:23
  smoking that like probably ruins his appetite.
• 14:25
  But yet, like the roles that he chooses, like
• 14:28
  there's just a certain thing about him when you
• 14:31
  see him on screen where it's like, yeah, I like
• 14:33
  that guy. I want to keep watching that guy. Sure.
• 14:36
  I also, I would, I also about him is that, like
• 14:38
  you said, he's so diverse of an actor. I love
• 14:41
  diverse actors, actresses. I love when they're
• 14:44
  not typecast into just, like, Ryan Reynolds is
• 14:47
  awesome at what he does. He really is. I love
• 14:49
  him and no one's gonna take away, you know, what,
• 14:52
  like, all the classic movies that he's done.
• 14:54
  in my heart at least. But he's a very similar
• 14:57
  role every single time. And Ryan Gosling on the
• 15:00
  other hand has a whole history, has a whole library
• 15:03
  of playing a freaking crazy variety of different
• 15:06
  characters and does it well. And I think Amy
• 15:09
  Adams is another person, I just watched, actress,
• 15:12
  I just watched Arrival for the first time. I
• 15:15
  don't know if you ever watched that movie. No,
• 15:17
  no, is that recent? What's it about? It's one
• 15:20
  of those sci -fi UFO type movies. A UFO kind
• 15:25
  of touches ground to earth. And they're trying
• 15:27
  to figure out a way to communicate it. So they
• 15:29
  get a physicist played by Jeremy Renner and then
• 15:33
  Amy Adams is a linguist. So you have kind of
• 15:37
  the humanist and the scientist work together
• 15:39
  to help try to decode this alien language and
• 15:42
  communicate with it for the betterment of humanity.
• 15:45
  I mean, she's she also has this just incredible
• 15:49
  library and incredible career that playing. all
• 15:52
  sorts of awesome roles. And, I mean, she's political,
• 15:54
  she's sci -fi, she's thriller, she's comedy.
• 15:57
  Yeah, I mean, she's enchanted, you know? I mean,
• 15:59
  it's crazy. She's really awesome. Yeah, I'm not
• 16:01
  a fan of Amy Adams. Like, the movies that I've
• 16:04
  seen her in, I've just been like, eh, you know.
• 16:06
  It didn't do much for me. I'm trying to think
• 16:10
  of what I've seen her in. A Man of Steel, I've
• 16:12
  seen her in... God, I think she was jacking off
• 16:16
  Philip Seymour Hoffman in The Master. remember
• 16:21
  that bathroom scene where she's like furiously
• 16:23
  jacking them off and I think they have like a
• 16:25
  tense marriage or something like that. I'm like,
• 16:27
  yeah, of course. Of course I'm a stupid straight
• 16:30
  guy. Of course that would be like the one thing
• 16:31
  from the movie that I remember. Um, but, uh,
• 16:35
  yeah. And then maybe there was something else
• 16:36
  that I saw her in that I'm not maybe hustler.
• 16:39
  Was she in that movie? Like hustler with like
• 16:41
  Bradley Cooper, Jennifer Lawrence. Uh, maybe
• 16:44
  I didn't watch it. American hustler, American
• 16:46
  hustler, American hustler. Yes. She was an American
• 16:48
  hustler. She was the, um, Oh gosh, I didn't remember
• 16:51
  the - Was there - Was she Bradley Cooper's girlfriend?
• 16:54
  Her love interest in the movie? Maybe. I don't
• 16:56
  know. Let's look it up. Who was Amy Adams in
• 17:01
  American Hustler? I hear the complaints about
• 17:08
  the roles, but they're still diverse. You know,
• 17:11
  like if they're not your movies, they're not
• 17:12
  your movies, but she's not playing one. So in
• 17:15
  the American Hustler movie from 2013, if you
• 17:17
  can believe it, my God, 13 years ago, Amy Adams
• 17:20
  plays Sidney Prosser, the sharp, seductive and
• 17:23
  highly skilled British con artist who partners
• 17:25
  with Christian Bale's Irving Rosenfeld. Let's
• 17:30
  see. I don't see anything about her being Bradley
• 17:33
  Cooper's girlfriend. No, Christian Bale is not
• 17:36
  of interest then. Okay, okay, Christian Bale.
• 17:39
  Yeah, yeah, who partners with I thought it was
• 17:41
  like business partner, but I guess maybe romantic
• 17:43
  partners as well with Christian Bale's character.
• 17:45
  I don't know. Anyway. So Amy Adams, yeah, she,
• 17:48
  no, she seems like a nice person and I've seen
• 17:50
  her. No, no, I mean, she seems fine, but it's
• 17:52
  just like Amy Adams, Jennifer Lawrence, like
• 17:55
  there are, there are certain actresses that have
• 17:57
  gotten all the accolades and I've watched them.
• 18:00
  And I know you have those like Ryan Reynolds,
• 18:02
  like Ryan Reynolds probably has gotten enough
• 18:05
  accolades to be done with his career. He could
• 18:09
  retire, but you're like, you said, like he plays
• 18:11
  a similar role in every movie. You just don't
• 18:13
  see it. And that's how I feel about Amy Adams
• 18:15
  and Jennifer Lawrence. And you know, I just don't
• 18:19
  I mean they they seem like nice pleasant people
• 18:20
  when you interview them, but like Who are some
• 18:23
  of your favorites some of your favorite actors?
• 18:27
  Yeah Denzel Washington, I can watch almost anything
• 18:31
  with him. He's on that much more of acting, for
• 18:33
  sure. And look, you can make an argument that
• 18:35
  when Denzel Washington plays a villainous character,
• 18:38
  it's pretty much a variation of Training Day.
• 18:42
  And it's fine, but Denzel just has this certain
• 18:45
  presence on screen where it's like, even if he
• 18:47
  plays the same character many times... Uh, I
• 18:50
  still like it. I still want to watch. So that's
• 18:52
  how Washington, um, the, the recent guests that
• 18:55
  I just interviewed, uh, an actor by the name
• 18:57
  of Dave Maldonado, who was, uh, Hogwood in the
• 19:00
  Academy award winning movie Sinners. Um, we were
• 19:03
  talking about, like, he was acting with Michael
• 19:06
  Stuhlbarg. Uh, I think that's how you pronounce
• 19:08
  his last name, uh, who's also in Boardwalk Empire.
• 19:11
  He played, uh, Arnold Rothstein. Remember Arnold
• 19:13
  Rothstein, that character? I didn't get far enough
• 19:15
  into the show. Oh God, you should, because it's
• 19:17
  a good show. Have you watched Your Honor with
• 19:21
  Bryan Cranston? No. Maybe years ago. Anyway.
• 19:25
  Yeah. Call Me By Your Name? Is that Robert Downey
• 19:27
  Jr.? Or no? No, no, no, no, no. Have you seen
• 19:29
  Call Me By Your Name with Dimethy Chalamet and...
• 19:32
  No. Okay. Uh, well, Michael Subaru, he's one
• 19:35
  of those character actors. He's not like leading
• 19:38
  man's stature, like a Tom Hanks or whatever,
• 19:40
  but he's one of those actors that is so respected
• 19:42
  for how he handles the craft and he appears in
• 19:44
  a lot of stuff, but in more like supporting roles.
• 19:47
  But it's like, you still remember him because
• 19:49
  he's such a dedicated, intense actor. Um, So
• 19:53
  Michael Stuhlbarg, that's an actor who I like.
• 19:57
  In terms of actresses, I don't know. I mean,
• 20:00
  Viola Davis can pull off a good performance.
• 20:02
  I'm just thinking off the top of my head. Octavia
• 20:04
  Spencer, I'm just thinking about the fact that
• 20:06
  they have like a Ma sequel coming out. Octavia
• 20:08
  Spencer can do really good with horror. Of course,
• 20:11
  we all remember the eat my shit moment in the
• 20:13
  help. Like that's iconic. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:17
  There's a few actors and actresses that I like
• 20:19
  to see on the screen that I think does a really
• 20:23
  good job. And oh, also pot smoking. I lied. I
• 20:28
  did actually smoke one of those like, what do
• 20:32
  you call those? The vape stick, the THC stick.
• 20:35
  Oh yeah. What do you think of that? What did
• 20:36
  you think? What was your experience? Oh, it was
• 20:38
  fun. I mean, it was like my second time doing
• 20:40
  that. So my theater friend, Sophia, we both perform
• 20:45
  in theater in Vermont. Oh nice. We took a walk
• 20:49
  in this beautiful area of the state this time
• 20:51
  of year called Waterfront Park in Burlington,
• 20:54
  Vermont. And she has, she owns one of those vape
• 20:56
  sticks. And, you know, have you ever like, smoked
• 21:00
  weed and just had a nice deep honest conversation
• 21:03
  with somebody. Sure. Isn't it the greatest? Yeah.
• 21:06
  And you're lowering a lot of walls, you know,
• 21:08
  and then you also get into like a mental flow
• 21:10
  if you're really in the, if you really, especially
• 21:12
  if you're like, you can start cooking, you know,
• 21:15
  and like when you, when you start cooking and
• 21:16
  like there's nothing, there's no inhibitions
• 21:18
  kind of washing you away then. Uh, it could be
• 21:21
  really productive. Yeah. And for those listening
• 21:22
  and watching, I mean, uh, Sophia, uh, she was
• 21:25
  on this podcast. So please check out our episode.
• 21:27
  She was a fun time. Um, but yeah, no, I just
• 21:29
  remember like, you know, a month ago, summer
• 21:31
  weather, nighttime, Vermont, smoking weed and,
• 21:35
  and, and, and walking by the water at waterfront
• 21:37
  park. Like it was, it was just absolutely beautiful.
• 21:41
  And, um, and when you mentioned like craftbeering
• 21:43
  and IPAs, uh, I remember that being a big thing
• 21:47
  in Decora, Iowa, where I used to live. to work
• 21:51
  in radio when I used to work in that industry.
• 21:54
  And they have a lot of craft beer places. And
• 21:57
  I remember drinking it and respectfully not being
• 22:00
  crazy about it. No, because I'm just not a beer
• 22:03
  drinker. You know how it is. I mean, there are
• 22:04
  people that love it. And then there are people
• 22:06
  like myself that are like, eh. I could go for
• 22:08
  like a margarita instead. I kind of forced myself
• 22:12
  into it because I was so excited about it. And
• 22:14
  like, initially I didn't love it. It was definitely
• 22:16
  an acquired taste. I think a lot of the things
• 22:18
  that I've liked, you know, I like smoky scotch,
• 22:20
  but that's because like my dad drinks it and
• 22:22
  like I wanted to be cool when I was 18. You know,
• 22:24
  I was like, oh yeah, this is good. I'm like,
• 22:25
  this tastes like crap. But like, you know, then
• 22:27
  eventually it grows on you. I got, yeah, I got
• 22:30
  full circle with the beers. I used to go from
• 22:32
  Keystone Light in college to, you know, 30 rack
• 22:35
  with over the weekend with my buddies. I moved
• 22:39
  from New York to Seattle and drove cross country
• 22:41
  with my buddies and stopped in a different brewery
• 22:45
  in every state along the way. And then I'm back
• 22:48
  to drinking Landshark and Bud Light again. You
• 22:50
  know, it all goes full circle. Which I want to
• 22:53
  ask, because like we talk about like craft local
• 22:57
  hometown beer versus a more national chain product
• 23:02
  like a Budweiser. What is... the difference in
• 23:06
  terms of taste and texture? Like, can you explain
• 23:08
  that to me? Yeah, I think that a lot of this,
• 23:14
  I think it depends on what you're drinking. For
• 23:16
  example, if you're drinking a light beer and
• 23:18
  you're drinking, let's say, again, a land shark.
• 23:21
  A lot of them are good. A lot of them that wouldn't
• 23:25
  be good is because they sat on the shelf for
• 23:27
  too long. If they're in glass bottles and they're
• 23:29
  sitting outside before the warehouse packs it
• 23:31
  in and there's sunlight bouncing. They're sitting
• 23:34
  in the sun for hours. That could affect the body.
• 23:36
  It could affect the smell. It could affect the
• 23:38
  taste. There's also, if you want to be fancy,
• 23:42
  quoting about it, the way that they put hops
• 23:44
  in it or the type of hops that they put in it
• 23:46
  make a big difference. Sorry? What are hops?
• 23:50
  Oh, hops are a plant. Actually, I believe related
• 23:54
  to the cannabis plant. Because they have that
• 23:59
  similar earthy smell. If you ever drink a Stella
• 24:01
  and you open it, it kind of smells a little bit
• 24:03
  like weed. That's the hop smell that you're getting.
• 24:07
  And they're a plant. They grow on the vine. Actually,
• 24:10
  your hometown, or I guess your current hometown,
• 24:12
  your neck of the woods is a huge distributor
• 24:15
  of hops around the world. Vermont, Maine... You
• 24:19
  know, the Northeast and the Pacific Northwest
• 24:22
  are both enormous in hop farming. And they have
• 24:28
  different... And almost like how, you know, when
• 24:30
  you have wine and it depends on like the ground
• 24:33
  that it's grown on and the texture and the environment,
• 24:36
  it creates different bodies and flavor. flavor
• 24:41
  notes and tones. The hops could be sweet, they
• 24:44
  could be bitter, they could be fruity, they could
• 24:46
  be dry. There's a lot that goes into that. And
• 24:50
  so you have something, for example, West Coast
• 24:52
  is a little bit more earthy or piney. And then
• 24:54
  the East Coast hops a little bit juicier, a little
• 24:57
  bit sweeter, a little bit more tasting like fruit.
• 25:01
  Recently, New Zealand, Germany, Greece have all
• 25:07
  kind of joined in the big hop. I guess farming
• 25:11
  experimentation. My wife and I went on our honeymoon,
• 25:15
  I guess four years ago now, which is crazy, to
• 25:18
  Santorini. And we went to a couple of breweries
• 25:21
  there and I was blown away by the craft beer
• 25:23
  scene. And they said that a lot of the beer is
• 25:26
  grown, sorry, a lot of the hops that they get
• 25:29
  are fresh and from these local Greek areas, Greek
• 25:32
  islands. So it's really cool. At the end of the
• 25:35
  day, A lot of it is similar, you know, like if
• 25:38
  you're drinking Bud Light. If you're drinking
• 25:40
  Bud Light and you go to a craft brewery and you're
• 25:42
  like, hey, let me get a lager on tap. You know,
• 25:44
  they're going to be similar. But, you know, I
• 25:47
  think that the more you drink it, the more refined
• 25:49
  and the more nuance you get to notice. The more
• 25:51
  nuance you notice. Nice. I live in a tiny town
• 25:56
  called Richford up here in Vermont. It's like
• 25:59
  two miles from Canada. I don't know about their
• 26:01
  relationship with like local breweries and craft
• 26:03
  beers, but I do know that when I worked down
• 26:05
  in Burlington, which is basically - Oh yeah.
• 26:07
  It's basically the New York city of Vermont.
• 26:09
  Like there's an area on like, it's like, uh,
• 26:12
  God, I think it's like around pine street in
• 26:14
  Burlington, uh, that I've nicknamed myself like
• 26:17
  brewery alley. Like it just, it's just like you
• 26:21
  and maybe you've seen this, uh, near your neck
• 26:24
  of the woods where, um, you will just go like
• 26:28
  you'll, you'll turn on a road and all of a sudden
• 26:31
  in this small neighborhood, there's like four
• 26:35
  or five, six breweries, like all in the same
• 26:38
  distance. And you could just walk from one to
• 26:41
  another very easily. So to all our Asheville,
• 26:44
  all your Asheville listeners, uh, there, there's
• 26:47
  a brewery district in Asheville and it's literally
• 26:50
  Yeah, North Carolina, yeah. And they have blocks
• 26:53
  of these. And these are some of the best breweries
• 26:55
  in the country. Seattle has that. When I moved
• 26:58
  to Seattle, I called a buddy of mine who used
• 27:00
  to make in college homemade mead, honey wine
• 27:03
  and Applejack, which was sick. I mean, he used
• 27:06
  to, he'd keep these containers in this closet
• 27:09
  and these jugs. And depending on the season,
• 27:12
  he would spice them or flavor them accordingly.
• 27:14
  So in the summer, it'd be berries. In the winter,
• 27:16
  it'd be cloves and cinnamon. And maybe, you know,
• 27:19
  in the fall, he'd put a little bit of nutmeg
• 27:20
  or even cayenne pepper or something like that.
• 27:24
  And so he, it's funny, he switched his degree
• 27:27
  from engineering to music, which was not a career
• 27:30
  move, a passion move, obviously. And so I called
• 27:35
  him when I was thinking of moving to Seattle,
• 27:37
  I was like, Sam. Brother, there's like 165 breweries
• 27:42
  in the Seattle zip code alone. If you want to
• 27:45
  try something fun and something new, I know you're
• 27:47
  good at this. Come with us. And he's like, hell
• 27:49
  yeah. And he's still brewing. And, you know,
• 27:51
  six, seven years later, he's still brewing in
• 27:54
  the Pacific Northwest. And he's, he loves it.
• 27:57
  It's a really, really cool world. And even if
• 27:59
  you don't like the beer. The people are awesome.
• 28:02
  That's what I've found about a lot of these little
• 28:03
  communities is that the more specific communities
• 28:06
  that they are, you know, if it's a cigar lounge,
• 28:08
  if it's a craft brewery, if it's a weed dispensary,
• 28:12
  people that are going there for like the purpose
• 28:14
  of a passion that they have or a vice, whatever
• 28:16
  you want to call it, they tend to be these kind
• 28:21
  of out of the box fun... real nice people. You
• 28:25
  don't just wander into a tiny little hole in
• 28:28
  the wall brewery by accident most of the time.
• 28:30
  You're usually looking for something like that
• 28:32
  and if you're looking, then you're probably gonna
• 28:34
  have someone that has something to talk about,
• 28:35
  something to say. So it's a great way to meet
• 28:37
  people. I love that. Apple Jack wine? Did you
• 28:39
  say wine made out of like Apple Jack cereal?
• 28:42
  Did I catch that earlier? What were you talking
• 28:44
  about? There's apple cider. Apple cider. He calls
• 28:48
  it Apple Jack. But he would take apple cider
• 28:51
  and add this yeast and whatever the enzyme is
• 28:55
  that ferments and turns into alcohol. And you
• 28:58
  stick it in the closet and you literally don't
• 28:59
  have to do a lot. There's a little aerator and
• 29:01
  I don't know the chemical process, but I know
• 29:04
  after about... And then after about a month or
• 29:06
  two, you get this say 10 -12 % apple cider kind
• 29:12
  of thing. Like sweet honey apple cider. And he
• 29:16
  would freeze it. And then hold it upside down
• 29:19
  and the first stuff that would drip out would
• 29:20
  be the most alcohol content because alcohol defrosts
• 29:24
  at a higher temperature than the rest of the
• 29:26
  liquid does. So the stuff that's dripping out
• 29:29
  of the container... is the most alcohol heavy.
• 29:32
  And then so he'd have, so he'd take a jug, I'd
• 29:35
  say a gallon jug and cut it into half, but it's
• 29:38
  the strongest portion of it. So instead of being
• 29:39
  a 10 % apple cider, it's like a 20, 25 % apple
• 29:44
  wine. And it was, and you know, and, and we used
• 29:49
  to do these power hours and it was, it was always
• 29:50
  a good time. It was, it was fun to make these,
• 29:54
  these activities something a little more personalized
• 29:56
  and handmade. It's a good time. Vermont, we make
• 29:59
  some great apple cider, you know? Yeah. Cold
• 30:01
  Hollow, that's a great brand of apple cider,
• 30:04
  and something that my wife introduced me to,
• 30:07
  you know, how they have root beer floats. An
• 30:09
  apple cider float, you put apple cider and vanilla
• 30:11
  ice cream together, it is quite a... No way.
• 30:14
  Quite a delicious treat, yes. Really? Now granted,
• 30:18
  I think with the root beer float with like the
• 30:20
  fizziness of the soda, like the ice cream pairs
• 30:23
  better with it. Apple cider is more like a juice,
• 30:26
  so just imagine like these like... weird looking
• 30:30
  clumps of ice cream just awkwardly sitting. in
• 30:33
  a weird way in apple cider. Maybe it's not as
• 30:37
  complimentary looking as a root beer float where
• 30:39
  the ice cream blends in more, melts in better,
• 30:43
  but still, it's delicious. Growing up, I went
• 30:46
  to camp in Wisconsin, and we used to go to the
• 30:49
  A &W, the A &W factory, and I was like, oh man,
• 30:53
  dude. My kids don't know what that is. It's sad.
• 30:57
  I mean, granted, they're three in one. It's like
• 30:59
  a Krispy Kreme where the A &W, I feel like it's
• 31:02
  It's like a Krispy Kreme where it's a chain that
• 31:04
  used to have a lot more locations and then they
• 31:06
  just became more specialized and rare. You know,
• 31:10
  I was talking about how we only live two miles
• 31:11
  from Canada here in Richmond, Vermont And I think
• 31:14
  we went to the Granby Zoo in Canada maybe a year
• 31:17
  or so ago and on the way back we spotted an A
• 31:20
  &W restaurant in Canada and yeah, I mean the
• 31:23
  the pure sort of 1950s like childhood joy of
• 31:28
  getting one of their signature root beer floats
• 31:30
  with like a hot dog or fries or cheeseburger
• 31:32
  It's it's great. It's a great feeling Have a
• 31:37
  feeling that that kind of stuff is gonna is coming
• 31:38
  back I've been reading more about yeah how the
• 31:42
  I guess I don't know I don't know even know what
• 31:45
  the terminology is the Gen X errs Is that is
• 31:47
  that is that the terminology? I well depends
• 31:50
  on like when they're born. So if you're talking
• 31:52
  about people born between 1965 and 1980 That's
• 31:57
  the Gen X generation. That's the generation once
• 31:59
  after that. There's Gen Z No, no, no. So Gen
• 32:02
  X is a 1965 to 1980 millennial, my generation,
• 32:06
  1981 to 1996. And Gen Z is like 97 to 2010. And
• 32:12
  I believe Gen Alpha is 2010 till this year. I
• 32:15
  think like this year starts the Gen Beta generation.
• 32:19
  So, okay. So Gen Z and Gen Alpha. are, I guess,
• 32:23
  are seeing a huge spike in group activities,
• 32:27
  like going to the movies and concerts and leaving
• 32:30
  their phones behind. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And
• 32:33
  what's interesting is you kind of see how society,
• 32:37
  especially in the last six, seven, eight years,
• 32:40
  has kind of moved away from creating these environments
• 32:43
  of in -person experiences. And it looks like
• 32:47
  the demand for those in -person experiences,
• 32:50
  and society's adjusted accordingly, but we don't
• 32:52
  have a ton of... things to do, it feels like,
• 32:55
  you know, with other people. Most of our lives
• 32:57
  revolve around FaceTiming and calling and texting
• 33:00
  and whatever. And it looks like this generation
• 33:02
  is trying to make a push for more embodied experiences.
• 33:05
  And I'm curious whether those type of activities
• 33:08
  like bowling or diners or, you know, old school,
• 33:11
  you know, these more old rollerblading, all this
• 33:14
  fun stuff. That have been awesome. That have
• 33:17
  been like staples. Especially, I don't know about
• 33:19
  you, growing up for me, these were staples. Like
• 33:21
  some of the best experiences were going a rollerblading
• 33:25
  alley. I don't even know what you call it. You
• 33:27
  know, the wood with the... Can I ask how old
• 33:30
  you are? Sorry? Can I ask how old you are? I'm
• 33:32
  30. Okay, so you were born in 96? 95, December
• 33:36
  95. Okay, okay. So yeah, you're, you're, you're,
• 33:39
  you're, you're, yeah, you're a millennial, just
• 33:40
  like me. Okay. You're like, you're, you're almost
• 33:42
  bleeding into Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I
• 33:44
  think they call you guys zillennials, right?
• 33:45
  Where it's like that border between or no, no,
• 33:48
  or is zillennial like the Gen X and millennial
• 33:50
  hybrid? I don't know. Anyway, either way, you're,
• 33:52
  you're millennial. Let's just keep it at that.
• 33:56
  Yeah, no, no. Rollerblading, dining, bowling,
• 34:00
  all that stuff. Ice skating. Yeah, ice skating.
• 34:04
  My sister took ice skating lessons. I've clumsily
• 34:07
  ice skated in my past and it wasn't a pretty
• 34:10
  sight to see. You should have seen me and my
• 34:13
  wife ice skating when we were on our honeymoon
• 34:15
  cruise. I was holding on to the railing in your
• 34:17
  life as if I was about to get into an accident.
• 34:20
  But yeah, you're right. I mean, when we were
• 34:22
  growing up in the like, you know, 90s, 2000s,
• 34:24
  Yeah, those activities were more prominent because
• 34:28
  we did not really have smartphones. The internet
• 34:32
  was certainly coming to fruition, but smartphones
• 34:34
  didn't come around until like 2007 with the release
• 34:37
  of the iPhone. So a lot of our childhood was...
• 34:41
  classic in -person experiences. Like, if you
• 34:44
  want to have a good time, you're not going to
• 34:45
  be, you know, stuck in your computer or your
• 34:47
  tablet or your phone. You're going to go out
• 34:49
  and bowl and have a good time. And I love the
• 34:52
  fact that you're saying that Gen Z and Gen Alpha,
• 34:54
  the younger generations, are realizing that,
• 34:56
  like, being stuck to your phone is just not a
• 34:59
  great way to live and to be able to, like, you
• 35:02
  know, find that community, you know, find those
• 35:03
  in -person experiences. I see it all the time.
• 35:06
  I mean, I Uber and Lyft drive for living in Burlington,
• 35:09
  and Burlington is a college town. So all the
• 35:12
  college students that I, you know, pick up, you
• 35:14
  know, the, the fact that I'll often like pick
• 35:16
  up groups of people that are like wanting to
• 35:17
  go out to the restaurant or the bar or whatever,
• 35:19
  or the movie theater. It's like, it's great.
• 35:21
  It's great to see people of that generation build
• 35:25
  community. And they also make for great date
• 35:28
  ideas. I mean, I mean, how many times I don't
• 35:31
  know what your dating history has been, but have
• 35:32
  you did the classic thing where you're like,
• 35:34
  Oh, here's someone I'm interested in. Let me
• 35:37
  take them out on a date to the bowling alley
• 35:39
  or to the mall. You go to the mall and then you
• 35:43
  figure out what to do from there. You know, I
• 35:45
  really like you want to go to the mall with me.
• 35:46
  You're like, Whoa, that was, that was the most
• 35:48
  painful thing I ever had to do. Oh my God. Is
• 35:54
  mall, is mall culture coming back? Cause like,
• 35:57
  I can never tell because I don't know. I don't
• 35:59
  know. It's hard to tell. Right. Yeah. Cause like,
• 36:02
  I mean, the university mall in, in, in Burlington
• 36:05
  is, uh, I mean, sometimes it's just, uh, kind
• 36:08
  of sad to see what a desert it can be. maybe
• 36:12
  during the holiday season, it still gets busy.
• 36:15
  But like, for the most part, I feel like it's
• 36:17
  representative of how malls are not what they
• 36:20
  used to be. Because you and I, both growing up,
• 36:24
  you know, you went to the mall, not only for
• 36:26
  holiday shopping, but like if you had nothing
• 36:29
  to do on a Saturday. I remember many times just
• 36:31
  going there to just browse for TV on DVD sets
• 36:35
  for fun, maybe buy some clothes, maybe check
• 36:38
  out a movie, playing at a movie theater in the
• 36:40
  mall. So yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know,
• 36:43
  I feel like either there's that rare chance I'm
• 36:46
  going to see a lot of people shopping at the
• 36:47
  mall or I'm just going to go into the mall and
• 36:50
  it's like, you're wondering like, how do you
• 36:52
  guys stay in business? It's like, there's nobody
• 36:53
  here. I think that if it's going to make a comeback,
• 36:58
  they're going to have to change what the perception
• 37:00
  of a mall is because shopping is just too convenient
• 37:05
  and too cheap online for like it to revolve around
• 37:08
  shopping. You know, like we used to have to go,
• 37:11
  like again, you go to the mall and you go shopping
• 37:12
  because you needed to, and maybe you'd find a
• 37:14
  good deal at the mall. But I mean, the fact is
• 37:16
  that the overhead costs, you know, you have to
• 37:18
  make rent and you have to, you have to pay your
• 37:20
  employees and you have to, you have to pay all
• 37:21
  these, whatever costs to run, to run an in -person
• 37:24
  shop at Fifth Avenue or in a big mall in Minnesota
• 37:28
  or anything like that. It's, you're going to
• 37:30
  have more overhead. You're going to have to charge
• 37:31
  more. But if malls are about Dave and Buster's
• 37:35
  bars, pool halls, and movie theaters, all of
• 37:38
  a sudden, that's a really awesome place that
• 37:40
  a lot of people, again, especially if you're
• 37:41
  going to follow this trend, want to participate
• 37:45
  in. So I think that, and most, listen, most,
• 37:48
  I don't know, this is part of the fun experience
• 37:50
  also, is that they're transient. That shops are
• 37:53
  always opening and closing. And I don't know
• 37:54
  about you, but growing up, it was always exciting
• 37:57
  when all of a sudden a store that you'd pass
• 37:59
  by be like... wait a minute, it's all boarded
• 38:01
  up. And then like six months later, a new store
• 38:03
  popped up and you're like, whoa, that's awesome.
• 38:07
  And then went out of business super fast. I'm
• 38:08
  like, shoot, I like that place. I mean, which
• 38:10
  is probably, yeah, which is probably not a good
• 38:12
  sign for, for, for the ball business. If stores
• 38:14
  keep opening and closing like that. But like,
• 38:16
  uh, yeah, no, I know what you're talking about.
• 38:17
  Like one moment, uh, it is a forever 21. And
• 38:21
  then the next moment, literally in the university
• 38:23
  mall in Burlington, I kid you not, it is a cowboy
• 38:26
  theme store. So you can buy. cowboy clothes,
• 38:29
  cowboy boots, like, and Vermont being a rural
• 38:32
  state, I guess I get it, but I. talk about it
• 38:35
  with my wife and I laugh because Burlington is
• 38:38
  not the sort of small rural Vermont town culture
• 38:41
  that people might think it is. Burlington is
• 38:44
  basically the New York city of Vermont where
• 38:45
  it's more liberal, more college leaning, like
• 38:48
  the young people that are there, they're more
• 38:51
  likely to dress however, whatever the current
• 38:54
  trend is and, you know, go to the bar, go to
• 38:57
  the restaurant, go to the movies, blah, blah,
• 38:59
  blah. Like they're not, you know, Hey, let me
• 39:02
  like put on my cowboy clothes and go milk a pig
• 39:06
  or something. Like that's, that's, that's probably
• 39:08
  the many other far out remote small Vermont towns
• 39:12
  that are outside of, of, of Burlington. But yeah,
• 39:15
  it's just hilarious. What trends, what other
• 39:18
  trends have you noticed, uh, dealing with a lot
• 39:20
  of college kids nowadays? Oh, I don't know. I
• 39:22
  mean, I don't pay too much attention to what
• 39:25
  they, well, okay. I will say that, um, baggy.
• 39:30
  clothes seem to be making a comeback. Like I
• 39:33
  see, I've seen girls wear these sort of baggy
• 39:35
  Capri pants, Birkenstocks, which were certainly
• 39:39
  a thing that I saw girls wear back when I was
• 39:42
  in middle school in the early two thousands to
• 39:45
  see those same Birkenstocks being worn by modern
• 39:47
  day college students. It's like, Whoa, that's
• 39:51
  interesting. I keep hearing about how fashion
• 39:53
  from the nineties has made a comeback today,
• 39:55
  but you know much like you i mean you and i we
• 39:59
  were born in the nineties and it's so different
• 40:01
  from being an eighties born millennial who actually
• 40:04
  like was a teenager came of age in the nineties
• 40:06
  and they can remember what the fashion was like
• 40:09
  i mean me my earliest memory Maybe like my fifth
• 40:13
  birthday party in like 1996. But other than that,
• 40:18
  like I was really doing a lot of my growing up
• 40:20
  and my memory forming in the, in the two thousands.
• 40:23
  So what I know about 90s fashion is just through
• 40:25
  like, you know, pop culture documentaries. Like,
• 40:28
  oh, I love the 90s. Let's go back in time and
• 40:30
  see what it was. But what about you? What trends
• 40:33
  have you noticed? Where are you, by the way?
• 40:35
  Where are you based? I live in South Florida.
• 40:38
  I live in South Florida. I'm in Hollywood. So
• 40:39
  the mall culture there must be a lot busier than
• 40:42
  the mall culture in Burlington, Vermont, I would
• 40:44
  imagine. Right? It's not. I mean, I guess it's
• 40:48
  different because you're dealing with like Florida
• 40:50
  people. Like Florida people's a real thing. It's
• 40:53
  crazy to see it. You move down here. You're like,
• 40:55
  that's the real thing Okay, so crazy Florida
• 40:58
  man stories were a part of my daily routine when
• 41:01
  I used to work in radio because like I was like
• 41:02
  the goofy guy that would like talk in between
• 41:05
  songs that like a top 40 station I was that stupid
• 41:07
  idiot for a while and We have show prep websites
• 41:11
  that we use to figure out stuff to talk about
• 41:13
  and the amount of crazy Florida man stories that
• 41:15
  I was given is Insane and I also will want to
• 41:18
  tell you that there are a good number of people
• 41:21
  that I drive in Burlington as an Uber and Lyft
• 41:24
  driver who are moving down to Florida and they
• 41:28
  seem like they have the personality that would
• 41:31
  work well with Florida and vice versa. I've seen
• 41:35
  people who have moved to Vermont from Florida
• 41:37
  and I ask, What made you come here from Florida?
• 41:42
  And the optimistic part of me wants to say like
• 41:45
  oh what I mean Florida is fucking hot as hell,
• 41:47
  you know, especially during the summer Maybe
• 41:48
  they just want more see that they want the four
• 41:51
  seasons. Yeah, but literally every answer is
• 41:54
  it's Florida. It's they've got issues How would
• 41:58
  you describe the issues if if there are if there
• 42:00
  are any and South Florida? I think that the issues
• 42:05
  are I'll tell you this, as far as societies go,
• 42:11
  they're relatively good issues to have, right?
• 42:13
  Like the issues aren't like... I think that you
• 42:17
  hear stories of like, I mean obviously politically
• 42:20
  in Burlington and Florida couldn't be further
• 42:24
  apart. And you know, I used to live in, I lived
• 42:27
  in Seattle, so I lived, I'm from New York. And
• 42:30
  you know, so politically all those places are
• 42:33
  pretty far apart. So people are moving out of
• 42:34
  Florida like, I don't like Florida. A lot of
• 42:37
  times I've noticed that it has more to do with
• 42:39
  the political climate. Yeah. which has a lot
• 42:42
  to do with it. But I think that as far as the
• 42:45
  actual application of the policy... It tends
• 42:50
  to be pretty hands -off and so much so hands
• 42:53
  -off to the extent that you end up getting these
• 42:55
  Florida man stories because you're like well
• 42:56
  like Shouldn't it be like shouldn't you stop
• 42:58
  someone from like eating an alligator like in
• 43:00
  the middle of the highway or something like that?
• 43:06
  Shouldn't you stop someone from shooting a guy
• 43:08
  in the head because he didn't get a $15 refund
• 43:10
  for I don't know some food that went bad at a
• 43:13
  restaurant probably yeah No, no kidding, but
• 43:21
  I but but I think that uh, yeah I think that
• 43:24
  I think that every place has has trade -offs
• 43:26
  right and has has pretty legit ones and I think
• 43:29
  that Generally speaking what you know, I mean
• 43:32
  right personally I got the area I live in is
• 43:35
  is pretty much just a homey Quiet neighborhood
• 43:38
  kind of place where I'll be shocked. I'll be
• 43:40
  talking to someone like oh, yeah I want to go
• 43:42
  into my you know, I come over or you know, I
• 43:44
  was just going gator hunting yesterday like You're
• 43:46
  a gator hunter. He's like, yeah, only on weekends.
• 43:49
  I enjoy it as a side project. I'm like, but what
• 43:51
  do you want? I'm an accountant. I'm a lawyer,
• 43:53
  you know, like totally people that like have
• 43:55
  just different, um, now, now I want to know how
• 43:57
  this works because I certainly up here in Vermont
• 44:00
  deer hunting. That's, that's a, that's a normal
• 44:02
  thing. There's a, there's a deer season. That's
• 44:03
  how common it is up here. But like gator hunting,
• 44:07
  like how does that work? Gator hunting, iguana
• 44:09
  hunting, there is snake hunting. So iguanas apparently
• 44:15
  are an invasive species to South Florida and
• 44:17
  they're all over the place. And they're warm
• 44:20
  -blooded, which means that when it gets below
• 44:23
  like 70 degrees, they... freeze they literally
• 44:27
  like their bodies just like freeze up and they
• 44:29
  start dropping out of trees and like and so in
• 44:32
  the winter time you could be driving or like
• 44:34
  walking out of your house and a frozen iguana
• 44:37
  would just fall out of a bush or out of a tree
• 44:39
  just right in front of you and like it looks
• 44:41
  like it's dead and then as soon as the sun comes
• 44:44
  out and you know like it's 11 12 o 'clock in
• 44:46
  the afternoon they'll just pop up and run off
• 44:48
  It's the craziest thing you'll ever see in your
• 44:50
  entire life, but because they're invasive and
• 44:52
  because they've become so Overpopulated I guess
• 44:56
  like with the deer problem. I imagine Florida
• 44:59
  State Actually will give you I think like a couple
• 45:03
  of bucks five ten fifteen bucks back per iguana
• 45:06
  that you bring in and so there are people that
• 45:08
  like load up their pickup trucks with iguanas
• 45:10
  and Bring it and bring them in Alligator or gator
• 45:15
  hunting is more of like an everglade kind of
• 45:18
  sport. I believe the alligators eat chicken so
• 45:20
  they use chicken as bait and they kind of just
• 45:22
  hang out drink beer and You know sit under the
• 45:25
  shade until a gator comes to eat the trap did
• 45:28
  the chicken and you know and and they bait it
• 45:31
  out and then they just shoot it and I don't really
• 45:34
  know what goes on from there. Yeah, do they eat
• 45:37
  it? Am I going to like eat alligator pie? I have
• 45:39
  no idea. I'm kosher. And so I don't eat that
• 45:44
  kind of stuff anyway. And I also don't, I don't
• 45:48
  know, I don't mess around with guns. I don't,
• 45:49
  I don't, I don't, they're not, they're not my
• 45:51
  cup of tea. I like. You're in the wrong place.
• 45:53
  I feel like with Florida, they go crazy with
• 45:55
  guns down there or am I wrong? It's funny because
• 45:59
  a bunch of my friends, you know, they moved down,
• 46:01
  they moved in from. anywhere from California,
• 46:03
  Baltimore, Maryland, New York, and one of the
• 46:06
  first things they do is they'll buy a gun. And
• 46:08
  I'm like, I'm not getting a gun until I know
• 46:10
  how to use one, until I know what the heck is
• 46:13
  going on. I'm all for your right to have it,
• 46:15
  but every time I come over, I'll text my friends
• 46:18
  like, I'm coming to the side, I'm coming to the
• 46:20
  backyard. Don't don't do anything man, you know
• 46:23
  and like tell your wife that I'm coming too because
• 46:25
  I don't So I have a witness in case you shoot
• 46:29
  me exactly I'm afraid of guns. I literally am
• 46:33
  afraid of guns. I I don't know if I'll ever use
• 46:36
  one I have this paranoid fear that I will get
• 46:42
  shot someday. And I don't know, maybe that's
• 46:44
  just like, you know, called being black in America.
• 46:48
  But yeah. Raise your chances pretty significantly.
• 46:50
  Right. Exactly. Exactly. Earlier, you mentioned
• 46:56
  the guest that you recorded for your Come Together
• 46:58
  podcast. Can you explain to me and the audience
• 47:02
  what the podcast is? I listened to one of the
• 47:05
  recent episodes, by the way. It's fantastic.
• 47:07
  Thank you. Yeah. You know, if you had to give
• 47:09
  us a very enticing elevator pitch on what the
• 47:12
  podcast is about, how would you say it? Educational
• 47:14
  and fun. And I have a lot of different interests.
• 47:17
  I love to learn. So I have different series.
• 47:20
  So for example, I have a psychology series and
• 47:24
  And anything that I'm interested in in the psychological
• 47:27
  world, right? Group psychology. Why do people
• 47:30
  act differently when they're in a collective
• 47:32
  crowd as opposed to the way you act alone? What's
• 47:36
  our relationship with ourselves? Why do I feel
• 47:38
  like I want to always sabotage myself whenever
• 47:40
  I'm doing well in my life? Or something crazy
• 47:42
  like that. And there's a million different lenses
• 47:45
  to look at things. And so I have different series
• 47:48
  with guests that specialize in whatever industry
• 47:52
  it is. And I'm at it for over two years now.
• 47:55
  And I've been fortunate enough to have some really,
• 47:57
  really spectacular guests across different industries.
• 48:00
  The most exciting one that I've been... really
• 48:03
  enthusiastic about has been my science series,
• 48:06
  because I've been more interested in bridging
• 48:08
  philosophy and science, like, not only how things
• 48:11
  work, but what are the implications now for us,
• 48:14
  now that we kind of understand how things work.
• 48:16
  And I just interviewed a real hero of mine named
• 48:20
  Dr. David Kaiser, and he wrote this awesome book
• 48:23
  called How the Hippies Saved Physics. Yeah, it's
• 48:27
  a great name. And the cover of the book, if you
• 48:29
  look up the cover of the book, is an awesome,
• 48:31
  awesome cover. I'm not going to ruin it for you,
• 48:33
  but check it out. And he's an MIT physicist and
• 48:37
  historian. And he basically notes how, and takes
• 48:41
  this book about how post -World War II, during
• 48:45
  the Cold War, science was essentially weaponized.
• 48:50
  Like people think of science now as... you know,
• 48:53
  like mad scientist or you're gonna try to create
• 48:55
  weapons or bombs or, you know, whatever it is,
• 48:58
  right? The Iron Man, the Iron Man journey that
• 49:00
  he goes on, so to speak. And he goes, and then
• 49:04
  there was a group of hippies, of scientists that,
• 49:07
  he goes, in the late 60s, early 70s, a lot of
• 49:10
  funding for physics was cut. And so you had 20
• 49:13
  physics students graduating and all applying
• 49:15
  for one job. It was 20 to one. competition. But
• 49:19
  that means that a lot of physics students and
• 49:21
  a lot of really smart physics students didn't
• 49:23
  have work. It didn't have anything to do. And
• 49:25
  so they're all hanging out on the West Coast.
• 49:26
  They're hanging out in Stanford. They're hanging
• 49:27
  out in California. They're hanging out in San
• 49:29
  Francisco. That's where the hippie scene is at
• 49:31
  the time. And they start noticing weird things.
• 49:34
  And they start noticing that when people meditate,
• 49:36
  you get this out of body experience. And they
• 49:38
  say, well, scientifically, how does that work?
• 49:41
  How does your consciousness separate from your
• 49:43
  body? And if your consciousness does separate
• 49:45
  from your body, does that mean that Has to stay
• 49:48
  right above your body. Could you can you go walk
• 49:50
  somewhere else to your consciousness? Can you
• 49:52
  can you can you see things? separate from where
• 49:55
  you are or How about bending things with metal
• 49:58
  or quantum entanglement or like all these crazy
• 50:01
  ant -man concepts or anything like that? And
• 50:03
  and and you know, there's a whole world of skepticism
• 50:06
  obviously around it but there's very real science
• 50:09
  that that there's real industries like there's
• 50:12
  a lot of a lot of bank security and a lot of
• 50:15
  password security and encryption is based on
• 50:17
  quantum mechanics. And there's something crazy
• 50:19
  that Einstein called a spooky entanglement from
• 50:24
  a distance. So if two cells or two atoms interacted,
• 50:28
  you could literally shoot them to two ends of
• 50:31
  the universe. And once they've already interacted
• 50:33
  once, no matter how far apart they are from one
• 50:35
  another, there's still going to be some connection
• 50:37
  between the two of them. And that's tangible.
• 50:40
  And David Kaiser himself and his lab from MIT
• 50:43
  went and tested this themselves and they did
• 50:45
  some amazing work. And so all this stuff that's
• 50:49
  science fiction -y, we're starting to kind of
• 50:51
  understand in theory how some of it could happen
• 50:53
  in real time, in real life. And that's some really,
• 50:56
  really fun and exciting things that are coming
• 50:57
  up. So my science series revolves around the
• 51:02
  combination of understanding the science and
• 51:06
  then understanding how it could actually be applied
• 51:08
  in a cool and fun way to our worlds. I love that.
• 51:11
  Come together with Ephraim Hirschman. Find it
• 51:14
  wherever you get your podcast. That is great.
• 51:15
  Hippie and physics. Being together as an absolute
• 51:19
  idea. We got music podcasts, economics. What
• 51:26
  kind of music do you listen to? Everything. God
• 51:28
  damn. Alternative rock, Latin jazz, basically
• 51:32
  whatever I'm in the mood for. It could be hip
• 51:34
  hop. I could be in a Frank Sinatra, Saturday
• 51:36
  Night mood. What kind of music stuff do you have
• 51:40
  on your podcast? I mean, all that stuff is great.
• 51:43
  I've been, the music stuff has been back and
• 51:45
  forth between, I'm working on more musicians,
• 51:48
  but music historians and I did, do you know,
• 51:52
  I mean, it's a Grateful Dead cover band, but
• 51:54
  Joe Russo's almost dead. Are you familiar with
• 51:56
  them? I'm not, no. No? Oh, they're great. So
• 51:58
  the lead guitar player and singer Tom Hamilton
• 52:00
  was just on. He's one of the coolest dudes. He
• 52:03
  used to be a bassist and lyric writer for Aerosmith.
• 52:08
  actually yeah he's really cool and it's been
• 52:12
  I mean it's been a ton of fun and there's no
• 52:15
  limit to where conversations go and it's no limit
• 52:18
  to to how much you can learn and how much your
• 52:20
  eyes can be opened if you're just willing to
• 52:22
  to see a little bit so it's really it's been
• 52:24
  it's been a great trip I love it all right I
• 52:26
  got some three delicious questions that I asked
• 52:28
  all my guests are you ready for that mm -hmm
• 52:30
  let's do it I want to know what is a delicious
• 52:34
  meal you've had lately. A delicious meal that
• 52:36
  I've had lately is my wife is into making both
• 52:42
  sourdough and her own freshly milled flour. And
• 52:47
  she made a freshly milled sourdough bagel, which
• 52:49
  was just tasted like a regular bagel, which is
• 52:52
  actually a huge win for the for the for the freshly
• 52:55
  milled and sourdough world. Um, but Taylor Swift
• 52:59
  and Travis Kelsey, cause I heard that Taylor
• 53:01
  and Travis, like they, uh, on their downtime,
• 53:04
  uh, I think it was, uh, Taylor appearing on Travis's
• 53:06
  podcast with his brother, Jason, and they were
• 53:08
  talking about their passion for making sourdough
• 53:10
  at home. Um, can you, can you tell me what goes
• 53:13
  into making sourdough? Like what, what's that
• 53:15
  life? No idea. I know that, that, that the, that
• 53:19
  the base or the starter. The starter is like
• 53:22
  a living organism. You have to feed it. You have
• 53:24
  to take care of it and it could die. And then
• 53:26
  if it dies, you have to get starter from someone
• 53:28
  else that has a healthy starter. I don't know
• 53:30
  how it works, but... You have your wife take
• 53:33
  care of that. I'm a fan of it. So sourdough bread
• 53:37
  bagels. I don't know. I definitely haven't tasted
• 53:40
  sourdough bagels. Maybe I've had a bite of sourdough
• 53:43
  bread in the past and I don't remember. Can you
• 53:45
  describe the taste and texture and how it would
• 53:48
  compare to say like a regular bagel or piece
• 53:52
  of bread? It's definitely, I would say a little
• 53:57
  drier, a little thinner in texture. There's a
• 54:03
  much more The crust is much more pronounced,
• 54:06
  I would say. It's got much more of a crunch.
• 54:09
  And I think it's made with different types of
• 54:12
  yeast and there's different types of enzymes
• 54:14
  in it. So it's a little lighter as far as when
• 54:20
  you're biting into it. It's less dense than regular
• 54:22
  bread, I would say. But I had it with grilled
• 54:27
  cheese and an omelet in the morning and that
• 54:29
  was mine. Delicious. You know what? Now that
• 54:34
  I think about it, I used to get those sourdough
• 54:36
  breakfast sandwiches from Dunkin Donuts. Oh yeah.
• 54:38
  Does it count as genuine sourdough if it comes
• 54:40
  from Dunkin? Cause I know a lot of their stuff
• 54:42
  is very thick tasting. I would say it's in the
• 54:45
  right spirit. I don't know. Not accurate, not
• 54:49
  homemade, not authentic, but it's in the right
• 54:51
  kind of direction, John. That's so funny. I know
• 54:55
  I can find sourdough bread in stores, but sourdough
• 54:57
  bagels, I don't know if I've ever seen that in
• 54:58
  a grocery store aisle. Is that something that
• 55:00
  you can only make from scratch or can you find
• 55:02
  it? No, I'm sure they have it. I don't think
• 55:03
  it tastes much different. I think it's supposed
• 55:06
  to be a little, quote unquote, healthier for
• 55:08
  your gut health or whatever. That's a great advertisement
• 55:12
  for bagels. If you like bread in circular form,
• 55:15
  try it. Definitely. Yeah, your delicious pop
• 55:20
  culture obsession at the moment. What is a TV
• 55:23
  show, movie, book, podcast, music, anything you're
• 55:26
  watching or listening to that you're loving and
• 55:27
  you want to share? I just watched Disclosure
• 55:31
  Day, the new Spielberg movie. Get out! Literally,
• 55:34
  Dave Maldonado from Sinners. He was talking about
• 55:36
  how he watched that movie. What are your thoughts
• 55:39
  about Disclosure Day? I want to know his thoughts.
• 55:41
  What was his thoughts? So his thoughts seem to
• 55:44
  be similar to my friend Kate's thoughts. So my
• 55:47
  friend Kate, who I acted in a theater production
• 55:49
  with in the Burlington area of Vermont, she went
• 55:52
  in with high expectations because how can you
• 55:55
  not? Like you read all the reviews and stuff
• 55:56
  like that and they're like, oh my God, this is
• 55:58
  Steven Spielberg's greatest film. So given that
• 56:02
  Steven Spielberg directed, oh, I don't know,
• 56:04
  fucking Jaws and E .T. and Schindler's List and
• 56:07
  Close Encounters of the Third Kind. and saving
• 56:09
  Private Ryan, like you would think, it's one
• 56:12
  of the best movies ever made. Right, exactly.
• 56:15
  You would think like out of all that and that
• 56:16
  his catalog, Disclosure Day is the best movie
• 56:18
  ever made. I must be in for an experience. And
• 56:21
  Kate was like, it was good. Not the best movie,
• 56:24
  but it was good. And Dave had a similar sentiment
• 56:28
  where I was just like, eh, eh, it was meh. So
• 56:32
  tell me what your experience was. I would definitely.
• 56:36
  put it higher than Good and Meh. Although, to
• 56:39
  be fair, I didn't go into it with the same expectations
• 56:43
  of this is like Spielberg's great final comedy
• 56:48
  project or anything like that. I thought the
• 56:51
  movie was really unique. It was really good.
• 56:54
  I really, really, really liked it. I think that
• 56:56
  going in knowing that it's not Spielberg's best
• 56:58
  movie, but that this is just a good movie that
• 57:00
  I think... let him tell you the story, let him
• 57:04
  take you away on this tale. A lot. It crosses
• 57:08
  genres in a very interesting way because John
• 57:12
  Williams does the score and he's awesome. And
• 57:15
  by the way, for those listening and watching,
• 57:19
  John Williams, he's also done the score for Jaws.
• 57:24
  Harry Potter, Superman, the grisly movies. Star
• 57:26
  Wars. If you want a guy that is responsible for
• 57:29
  the scores, the movie scores that made your childhood,
• 57:32
  go to John Williams. He's the GOAT. He's the
• 57:34
  GOAT. He's the GOAT. But go ahead. And Hans Zimmer,
• 57:35
  Hans Zimmer's number two, I think. Oh yeah, Hans
• 57:37
  Zimmer as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But remind
• 57:40
  me what Disclosure Day is about and why. The
• 57:43
  premise of the movie is that there's life that
• 57:44
  is greater than humanity or greater than human
• 57:47
  intelligence. The universe is filled with all
• 57:51
  sorts of intelligent life. And the question that
• 57:54
  remains is, can humans handle being told this
• 57:57
  idea or not? And there's two camps. There's the
• 58:02
  institutional camp that says, absolutely not.
• 58:05
  collapse the world into chaos and definitely
• 58:08
  don't do that. And then there's the minority,
• 58:11
  which is we have the right to know, especially
• 58:13
  if this is something that is so earth literally
• 58:16
  life changing, so earth shattering. So and all
• 58:18
  these words are like so literal, right? Earth
• 58:20
  shattering and life changing that how can you
• 58:23
  not? You can't hold this back. And in fact, you
• 58:25
  should probably come out with a plan in order
• 58:27
  to the secret. The answer isn't to necessarily
• 58:31
  not tell people, but tell them in a way that
• 58:33
  could be, you know, that could be digested, perhaps.
• 58:36
  And the movie has a real tone of urgency. Like,
• 58:40
  it's really speaking to the time. You know, coincidence
• 58:43
  not, matrix or not, glitch or not, the next day
• 58:46
  another trove of UFO files were released, the
• 58:48
  day after the movie came out. Which obviously
• 58:53
  sounds a little bit like a joke to me, but you
• 58:55
  never know. It's not, it's real. Yeah, but I
• 58:58
  would say that... for a far better version of
• 59:01
  the almost the exact same thing, the 1997 movie
• 59:04
  Contact, directed by Robert Zemeinkis and starring
• 59:07
  Jodie Foster and Matthew McConaughey. I just
• 59:10
  watched that this week and I, every half an hour
• 59:13
  or so was like, what the hell? It blew my mind.
• 59:18
  I thought I was just crazy. Sorry? What's that
• 59:20
  movie about? Similar premise. That humanity is
• 59:24
  not alone, but... It's discovered by a by Jodie
• 59:28
  Foster, who's a scientist who is obsessed with
• 59:31
  radio. And she when she's a kid, she lives in
• 59:34
  Michigan and she radios all the way down to Pensacola,
• 59:36
  Florida. And then as adult scientist, she's radio
• 59:39
  into space. And that movie I thought that I was
• 59:43
  just high and I was like that maybe that's why
• 59:45
  it's blowing mine And then I forced my wife to
• 59:47
  watch it and she every half an hour or so. She
• 59:49
  was like Okay, good. I'm not crazy That's wonderful,
• 59:55
  I love that and finally what is a delicious thing
• 59:59
  that has happened in your life lately I spent
• 1:00:04
  the last four years teaching high school English
• 1:00:06
  part -time and I felt like I was juggling too
• 1:00:10
  much. I had the podcast. I have two kids. I do
• 1:00:13
  sales and business development. I taught high
• 1:00:16
  school. I practiced jiu -jitsu. I played music.
• 1:00:20
  I felt like I could not. I kept on trying to
• 1:00:22
  juggle all these balls and something kept on
• 1:00:25
  falling. So I put teaching on hold for this upcoming
• 1:00:28
  year. And I have to, and I'm deliciously learning
• 1:00:33
  how to be still for like, I got, I found an extra
• 1:00:37
  four or five hours of my day every day now. And
• 1:00:40
  that is like crazy. And I don't even know what
• 1:00:43
  to do with it. So I'm still trying to process
• 1:00:45
  this time. Cause I'm, I'm like you, like when
• 1:00:47
  you're going, going, going, when you have all
• 1:00:49
  these things going on and then you're like, fuck,
• 1:00:51
  like I gotta like settle down or else I will
• 1:00:55
  pass out. And then all of a sudden you have this
• 1:00:57
  big chunk of time that you've that where it's
• 1:00:59
  free and you have nothing to do, you can either
• 1:01:02
  like lean into it and be relieved and love that
• 1:01:06
  time. Or you can go crazy because you're so used
• 1:01:08
  to going, going, going. And all of a sudden you're
• 1:01:10
  just uncomfortable with the silence, with your
• 1:01:12
  thoughts, with doing nothing. Um, that's good,
• 1:01:16
  man. That's, that's, that, that's good that you,
• 1:01:18
  uh, have, uh, taken some stuff off your plate,
• 1:01:20
  that you have trimmed the fat, so to speak. Um,
• 1:01:23
  I went through a similar thing last year, 2025.
• 1:01:26
  I had pretty much. I think they call it a quarter
• 1:01:29
  life crisis, even though I feel like quarter
• 1:01:31
  life is like 25 years old and I'm 34, but it's
• 1:01:34
  a younger version of a midlife crisis. Sure.
• 1:01:37
  Where last year I was just like, fuck, like I
• 1:01:39
  feel like I'm getting older and my wife and I,
• 1:01:41
  we eventually want to have kids. And I feel like
• 1:01:44
  I need to like do everything that I. aspired
• 1:01:48
  or dreamed about doing like right now. And last
• 1:01:51
  year was just so overwhelming because not only
• 1:01:52
  was I doing this podcast, but I was trying to
• 1:01:55
  get back into acting in a much more full timey
• 1:01:59
  professional sense, much like I wanted to do
• 1:02:02
  when I was like in my high school and college
• 1:02:03
  years and in my twenties. And I also dabbled
• 1:02:07
  in voiceover. I was paying a certain price. Yeah.
• 1:02:10
  Yeah. I was paying a certain amount of money
• 1:02:11
  for coaching, you know, I'm, I'm being told like,
• 1:02:13
  Oh yeah, you have a great voice for voiceover
• 1:02:14
  and you could like, you know, make some money
• 1:02:16
  off of it. So I was like, Oh sure. Let me try
• 1:02:18
  this out. So yeah. And also I'm driving 10 to
• 1:02:22
  13 hours a day on the road, four days a week,
• 1:02:25
  Uber and Lyft driving to pay the bills. So, uh,
• 1:02:28
  driving more than 40 hours a week, podcasting.
• 1:02:32
  Usually I set aside a day like this to, you know,
• 1:02:34
  produce, uh, record, edit, all the stuff for
• 1:02:37
  the podcast. And then I'm, you know, doing voiceover
• 1:02:40
  coaching, which is not just in the moment being
• 1:02:42
  taught, but also there's homework you got to
• 1:02:44
  do afterwards. And also, you know, acting opportunities.
• 1:02:48
  I would audition for film and TV stuff. I would
• 1:02:50
  get involved in theater stuff. And that's also
• 1:02:53
  a big commitment with, you know, rehearsing the
• 1:02:55
  lines and getting into character, blah, blah,
• 1:02:57
  blah. So it was a lot last year. I felt like
• 1:03:00
  I was terrible self -esteem wise. felt tired
• 1:03:04
  all the time. And one by one, with the help of
• 1:03:08
  my therapist, I began to ask myself, what are
• 1:03:11
  the value of each of these things that you are
• 1:03:15
  putting on your plate? And one by one, it was
• 1:03:18
  like, okay, voiceover, the only value that I've
• 1:03:21
  seen in it is that I could make money from it.
• 1:03:23
  But other than that, like, as far as like the
• 1:03:26
  actual work of it all, I was miserable, even
• 1:03:29
  though I would occasionally get positive reinforcement
• 1:03:31
  from my teacher. I just did not feel good. I
• 1:03:35
  just, I didn't feel good reading someone else's
• 1:03:38
  script. I just didn't get much energy or passion
• 1:03:40
  from it. And I'm spending 150 bucks every two
• 1:03:42
  weeks for it. Uh, so. Uh, yeah, not cheap, not
• 1:03:46
  cheap in this economy. So, uh, I decided to just
• 1:03:50
  try out like missing a week or so just to break
• 1:03:54
  from it and see how I felt about it. And then
• 1:03:56
  that turned into what it is now. I mean, I haven't
• 1:03:57
  gone back since and I haven't missed it. So voiceover
• 1:04:00
  is gone. I used to, um, uh, get acting coaching
• 1:04:03
  from my former high school theater director to
• 1:04:05
  like really get back into a professional sense
• 1:04:08
  of acting. And then, um, all of a sudden I realized
• 1:04:11
  like, oh, wait a minute, like the way that I
• 1:04:14
  felt about acting when I was in my teens and
• 1:04:16
  twenties is just not how I feel now. How I feel
• 1:04:19
  now is I would prefer acting to be like a more
• 1:04:22
  fun, occasional hobby, something that I occasionally
• 1:04:24
  get paid for. And what it was in my teens and
• 1:04:26
  twenties was full -time, intense. Like this is
• 1:04:29
  something that you have to dedicate your time
• 1:04:30
  to. So realizing that I didn't have the energy
• 1:04:33
  for acting like in a sort of intense way, I took
• 1:04:35
  away the coaching and I just leaned into just.
• 1:04:38
  getting involved in, you know, local theater
• 1:04:40
  in Vermont and maybe, you know, maybe looking
• 1:04:42
  into a film or TV thing. Um, I did one of those
• 1:04:45
  micro dramas in LA. I don't know if you've ever
• 1:04:47
  seen a one or two minute micro drama, but I shot
• 1:04:49
  one of those really quickly. So that's cool.
• 1:04:52
  Yeah. Um, so the acting coaching got, got taken
• 1:04:54
  away and then, um, uh, I still obviously have
• 1:04:57
  to do driving to pay my bills, but really what's
• 1:05:01
  left is the podcast and the podcast has always
• 1:05:03
  been a passion of mine because Throughout all
• 1:05:06
  the external validation that I've been trying
• 1:05:08
  to seek from like, you know working in commercial
• 1:05:10
  radio for eight years and Doing voiceover and
• 1:05:13
  an acting coaching the podcast represented Oh,
• 1:05:16
  this is something that I can create for myself
• 1:05:20
  that you know, maybe others will enjoy maybe
• 1:05:21
  they won't but at the end of the day It's something
• 1:05:23
  that feels true and authentic to me. I like creating
• 1:05:26
  something I like putting it out there on my own
• 1:05:28
  terms I love having conversations with a variety
• 1:05:30
  of interesting people like yourself Uh, and I've
• 1:05:33
  been podcasting for, for six years and I know.
• 1:05:36
  Nice. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they
• 1:05:38
  had to take some hiatus this year and there when
• 1:05:40
  I was burned out, you know, from doing radio
• 1:05:42
  and podcasting at the same time, cause that's
• 1:05:44
  a lot of content creating, but, um, yeah, I just
• 1:05:47
  realized that, Oh, wait a minute. This podcast
• 1:05:49
  is really like the one true creative endeavor
• 1:05:52
  that I really, really value. It's something that
• 1:05:54
  I create on my own that I can call. uh myself
• 1:05:58
  an expression of myself and I love the creative
• 1:06:01
  stimulation of like creating something week after
• 1:06:03
  week talking to different kinds of people producing
• 1:06:05
  content you know things like that the best thing
• 1:06:07
  isn't it yeah yeah yeah yeah so um so I have
• 1:06:10
  to thank my therapist Barbara because she had
• 1:06:13
  a therapist everyone should go to therapy man
• 1:06:15
  big believer in that Has she not tell me that,
• 1:06:18
  you know, Hey, like figure out what is the value
• 1:06:20
  of what you're doing in your life. I probably
• 1:06:22
  would have still, you know, done like five or
• 1:06:25
  six things at the same time and driven myself
• 1:06:26
  and probably my wife crazy. Cause you know, it
• 1:06:28
  was affecting my time with my wife too. So, yeah,
• 1:06:30
  yeah, yeah, sure. Um, so I'm, yeah, I'm so glad
• 1:06:32
  that you are, um, that you have chosen to, uh,
• 1:06:36
  take a little bit of a break. So what, what is
• 1:06:39
  your, uh, what is your plate looking like? What
• 1:06:41
  are, what are your main focus now? Um, My focus
• 1:06:46
  is now, I mean, huge part obviously is family.
• 1:06:50
  You know, my wife, kids, I happen to live, most
• 1:06:53
  of my family lives in New York, Connecticut,
• 1:06:56
  New Jersey, Tri -State area. So, but I'm Orthodox
• 1:07:01
  Jewish and I'm very close with my community.
• 1:07:03
  I go to synagogue two, three times a day. And
• 1:07:06
  actually a big part of, in addition to talking
• 1:07:11
  to people about whatever I'm dealing with, is
• 1:07:14
  praying has been very reflective and really,
• 1:07:16
  really helpful. I feel like I'm kind of re -associating
• 1:07:20
  what my understanding of what my goals should
• 1:07:22
  be. But most of my energy right now is family.
• 1:07:28
  podcast and then whatever I got to do to make
• 1:07:30
  whatever whatever sales I got to do to make money.
• 1:07:32
  So I really want the podcast. The goal is to
• 1:07:35
  set to maybe take this next year or two and set
• 1:07:38
  up the podcast and my business and work in a
• 1:07:41
  way that I could go back to teaching, but have
• 1:07:44
  a much healthier handle over it. When I started
• 1:07:46
  teaching, I didn't have kids when I started teaching.
• 1:07:48
  I didn't have a mortgage. I started teaching.
• 1:07:50
  I didn't have the podcast, you know, and all
• 1:07:52
  of a sudden all this stuff just pops up in your
• 1:07:55
  life. And then you go. Oh, crap, man. Like I
• 1:07:58
  just it's just too much. You know, so so and
• 1:08:01
  then and I mean, and I love consuming. I love
• 1:08:04
  I love TV. I love music. I love I love reading.
• 1:08:07
  I'm reading. I'm reading more books now than
• 1:08:09
  I have in years. And I finally get a chance to
• 1:08:12
  watch shows that my friends and neighbors I freaking
• 1:08:14
  loved on Apple TV. I thought was incredible.
• 1:08:20
  Isn't John Hamm in that show? Yeah, John Hamm.
• 1:08:23
  Sure. Yeah. And then it started Mad Men and I
• 1:08:25
  was like, it's too much John Hamm. Mad Men is
• 1:08:29
  a good watch. I remember when it was still on
• 1:08:33
  the air on AMC and it was the show that everybody
• 1:08:37
  was talking about. This was like the late 2000s,
• 1:08:39
  early 2010s era of like prestige TV. You got
• 1:08:43
  to watch Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos,
• 1:08:45
  Girls. He loves Kano's, Entourage. Scandal, like
• 1:08:50
  all these water cooler shows that people were
• 1:08:54
  talking about. Entourage, yes, Entourage included.
• 1:08:57
  Boardwalk Empire, you could put that in there.
• 1:09:00
  And Mad Men, I tried it a first time and could
• 1:09:03
  not get into it, but then because I was younger
• 1:09:06
  and wanted to like... you know, be a part of
• 1:09:08
  the cool crowd. Like I gave it another spin and
• 1:09:12
  yeah, I remember just being into it. I remember
• 1:09:14
  it was like summer of 2010. I was summer counseling
• 1:09:17
  at a camp in between like college semesters.
• 1:09:21
  And, uh, I think I got like mad men on DVD from
• 1:09:25
  my local library because this was before streaming.
• 1:09:27
  This was before, you know, that became a thing
• 1:09:30
  with Netflix and such. So, uh, just being able
• 1:09:32
  to like grab those DVDs from the library and
• 1:09:35
  like really binge this, uh, interesting view
• 1:09:38
  of like, um, of Madison Avenue and advertising
• 1:09:42
  and the sixties and certainly the misogyny and
• 1:09:44
  the masculinity. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well,
• 1:09:47
  yeah, with Don Draper, he's certainly a flawed
• 1:09:49
  character, but, um, So when you're saying too
• 1:09:52
  much Jon Hamm, are you saying that, like, you
• 1:09:54
  aren't a fan of the show? No, I love him, but
• 1:09:57
  I can't... I mean, think about... You know, one
• 1:09:59
  of the things I love about the long -form TV,
• 1:10:01
  especially since, like, the mid -2000s, since
• 1:10:04
  that, like, really the Sopranos era kind of kicked
• 1:10:07
  off, but really even before that with, like,
• 1:10:09
  Oz and other HBO shows, was you have a chance
• 1:10:12
  to tell a long -form story with a lot of depth
• 1:10:17
  in a way that a movie just can't. And so... You
• 1:10:21
  know, I, so on one hand, that's awesome. On the
• 1:10:23
  other hand, it's a lot of Jon Hamm lodging like,
• 1:10:26
  you know, 20 hours of Jon hair, you know, 25
• 1:10:28
  hours in the week. It's funny because I watched,
• 1:10:31
  my wife and I watched Homeland earlier this year.
• 1:10:33
  Oh my God. Oh yes, me too. Yeah. We literally
• 1:10:36
  finished, we finished Homeland like probably
• 1:10:39
  a month or so ago. Oh God, what a fantastic show.
• 1:10:42
  Well, and what's more incredible about it is
• 1:10:44
  that If you think about HBO shows, they have
• 1:10:47
  like 10, 12 episodes in a season. Maybe 15 if
• 1:10:49
  they're stretching it. Homeland did like 25 hour
• 1:10:52
  plus long episodes per season for like seven
• 1:10:55
  seasons. At the time, the networks considered
• 1:10:58
  a season of television like 20 to 25 episodes.
• 1:11:01
  So there was a lot of... Content there's a lot
• 1:11:04
  of television. So homeland a homeland actually
• 1:11:06
  had 12 episodes a season. It was on Showtime
• 1:11:08
  Really was it more? I was it was yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11:11
  Yeah, we literally did a Yeah, yeah, yeah, no
• 1:11:15
  home homeland was on Showtime and You know when
• 1:11:18
  I think of Showtime I think of like Dexter like
• 1:11:20
  that That was another show in that sort of 200
• 1:11:22
  to 2010s prestige TV era But no, no, no homeland
• 1:11:26
  a homeland was in that sort of HBO Showtime premium
• 1:11:29
  cable We're only gonna have like 10 to 12 episodes
• 1:11:31
  a season. Oh, yeah You're right, actually. Why
• 1:11:34
  did it feel so long? Because it was intense,
• 1:11:38
  pretty much every episode, I mean, because it
• 1:11:40
  deals with terrorism. What a great show. What
• 1:11:41
  a great show. Fantastic. Yeah, it deals with
• 1:11:44
  terrorism and Carrie Matheson and her bipolar
• 1:11:47
  disorder as she's a member of the CIA. Incredible.
• 1:11:51
  Yeah, I don't know. Me and my wife, we watched
• 1:11:53
  it. We certainly talked a lot about it in a podcast
• 1:11:55
  episode that people can see on this Delicious
• 1:11:58
  Culture feed at some point, if they wish. Yeah,
• 1:12:01
  God, I felt sad when it ended as you do with
• 1:12:05
  any show that you're attached to because you
• 1:12:06
  just feel like you have a special bond with these
• 1:12:09
  characters and their storylines and to just have
• 1:12:13
  it be over just like that. That's sort of the
• 1:12:16
  downside of like having a show all at once available
• 1:12:19
  to you on streaming and then you can just binge
• 1:12:20
  it all is that, you know, if you're really into
• 1:12:23
  the show, like you could get through it all in
• 1:12:25
  like a month or so. And then all of a sudden
• 1:12:26
  it's like, oh, it's done. Whereas with Homeland,
• 1:12:29
  if you watched it in real time on Showtime, then
• 1:12:31
  you were literally on this nine year journey
• 1:12:35
  of Carrie Matheson and company. It felt too real
• 1:12:38
  to me, man. I asked someone, I did a podcast
• 1:12:43
  with the former CIA guy. And I was like, dude.
• 1:12:46
  How'd that movie get made? How'd that show get
• 1:12:48
  made? How did anyone let that show get made?
• 1:12:51
  Because I do know that there's times where government
• 1:12:53
  does step in and say, hey, we're not letting
• 1:12:55
  you make this, we're not letting you tell the
• 1:12:57
  story this way because it's too important that
• 1:12:59
  the national perspective on this is not that.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah, I did a great episode of the guy named
• 1:13:05
  Tom Sucker, who I actually would recommend reaching
• 1:13:08
  out to because he was an awesome guest. And he's
• 1:13:11
  an investigative journalist between the relationship
• 1:13:13
  between Hollywood and government. And his website
• 1:13:16
  is called spyculture .com. And he has all these
• 1:13:20
  foils and all these documents that he's got from
• 1:13:23
  intel agencies, from NASA, from the Department
• 1:13:26
  of Defense, the Pentagon. And their relationship
• 1:13:30
  with Hollywood goes back to the 50s, goes back
• 1:13:32
  even earlier than that. So, you know, because
• 1:13:35
  the government realizes, knows how useful of
• 1:13:40
  a weapon Hollywood is. You could tell enormous
• 1:13:43
  stories and create very powerful narratives that
• 1:13:46
  millions of people consume and really shapes
• 1:13:49
  and forms their perspectives. And so you want
• 1:13:52
  to make sure that the movie that you're making,
• 1:13:55
  like Miracle, the awesome hockey movie, the USA
• 1:13:57
  1980 Olympic hockey team. That's an American
• 1:14:02
  propaganda movie in the best way, but the Americans
• 1:14:04
  are the good guys and the heroes, and the Russians
• 1:14:06
  are the bad guys and the villains, and that is
• 1:14:09
  the way the world works, and that's what it is.
• 1:14:15
  So I was confused how it got made and the CIA
• 1:14:18
  guy's response to me was there are times where
• 1:14:21
  they will lean into the bad guy, you know, like
• 1:14:24
  good cop, bad cop perspective too. They don't
• 1:14:26
  mind leaning into both perspectives. So there's
• 1:14:27
  times where the CIA can be the best thing in
• 1:14:29
  the entire world, like the movie Argo with Ben
• 1:14:31
  Affleck. Gosh, I forgot who else was in it, but
• 1:14:34
  whatever. And then, oh, Bryan Cranston. And then,
• 1:14:38
  yeah. And then there were times where you lean
• 1:14:40
  into it in a little bit of a negative way, but
• 1:14:42
  scary negative. Like, hey, don't mess around
• 1:14:43
  with us. And that's kind of a homeland, it feels
• 1:14:45
  like. Yeah. I remember, God, George and Megan,
• 1:14:49
  these fantastic people, they host a podcast called
• 1:14:51
  No Season Two, where they basically review shows
• 1:14:55
  that did not get a second season. And... Megan
• 1:14:59
  also watched Homeland and was talking about like
• 1:15:04
  how she felt there was Islamophobia in that show
• 1:15:07
  that would not hold up today. And I actually
• 1:15:10
  was confused when she said that because if anything,
• 1:15:14
  Certainly, yeah, there were moments where like,
• 1:15:16
  you know, the terrorist characters, like they
• 1:15:18
  were just seen emphatically as like, oh, yeah,
• 1:15:20
  this is the bad guy. They're trying to inflict
• 1:15:22
  harm. But then you look later on and there was
• 1:15:25
  this particular terrorist that did a lot of fucking
• 1:15:28
  damage. I mean, this was the terrorist. Yeah,
• 1:15:30
  the main guy I know you're talking about. Yeah,
• 1:15:32
  yeah. Like he like he he held a bunch of people
• 1:15:34
  hostage in the CIA office building, shot some
• 1:15:37
  people, blah, blah, blah. But then his art just
• 1:15:40
  turns around and he becomes this guy that's looking
• 1:15:42
  for peace. with the U .S. trying to figure that
• 1:15:46
  out with Saul Berenson who also works for the
• 1:15:48
  CIA and... Manny Patinkin. Manny Patinkin, yeah.
• 1:15:52
  Fantastic. My father prepared to die. Wait, what?
• 1:15:56
  He's Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride. Oh,
• 1:15:58
  okay. Yeah. My name's Inigo Montoya. He killed
• 1:16:01
  my father prepared to die. Oh. To be honest,
• 1:16:05
  my high school science teacher showed us that
• 1:16:06
  movie and I was not into it. I'm sorry. I don't
• 1:16:09
  like the movie. Revisit. It may be worth it.
• 1:16:11
  But I'll try to watch it again. I will try to
• 1:16:13
  watch it again. And I know Manny Patinkia, my
• 1:16:16
  wife, she's also a fan of the show Criminal Minds.
• 1:16:18
  I know he's in Criminal Minds as well. But anyway,
• 1:16:21
  no, no, no. But what I liked about Homeland was
• 1:16:23
  that they could have easily been, you know, especially
• 1:16:26
  like, you know, in the 2010s of it all when we
• 1:16:29
  were still in Afghanistan. And I know like Osama
• 1:16:33
  bin Laden just got assassinated in 2011 when
• 1:16:35
  Homeland began. And, you know, everybody was
• 1:16:38
  like erupting and cheering across the street
• 1:16:39
  for that. Um, but yeah, the Homeland both showed
• 1:16:44
  that yes, like, you know, these terrorist organizations,
• 1:16:47
  the Al Qaeda's and such, there are definitely
• 1:16:50
  genuinely bad people that want to cause harm
• 1:16:52
  to the U S and humanity. But also within that
• 1:16:56
  there are compassionate people, people that either
• 1:16:59
  a lot. I thought Homeland is very fair. It made
• 1:17:01
  me, it made me rethink a lot of things. It forced
• 1:17:03
  me to think a lot about how much of our perspective
• 1:17:06
  in our relationship with. our other human neighbors
• 1:17:10
  and other human family members are manufactured.
• 1:17:13
  And how much our perception of them is not necessarily
• 1:17:16
  as black and white as we were raised to think.
• 1:17:21
  I mean, again, the show revolves around the Middle
• 1:17:25
  East conflict. So there's going to be terrorism,
• 1:17:27
  there's going to be displays of... There feels
• 1:17:31
  like a lot more, there feels like a lot of American
• 1:17:32
  terrorism in that movie, as far as, you know,
• 1:17:35
  and Israeli terrorism in that movie. Oh, yeah.
• 1:17:36
  In the show, rather, for sure. But so I think
• 1:17:39
  it's, I feel like it's more fair than most other
• 1:17:42
  portrayals in cinema recently, but it really
• 1:17:45
  does provide this new perspective on the Muslim
• 1:17:48
  religion, first of all, that I think a lot of
• 1:17:50
  people were not prepared for. Yeah. And even
• 1:17:53
  that idea, if we open our, again, there's probably
• 1:17:58
  a ton of value. Every religion, every religion
• 1:18:01
  generally has a lot more value than not. And
• 1:18:04
  I think that we were, you know, the America in
• 1:18:08
  particular for the last 60, 70 years has been
• 1:18:10
  on this kind of crusade against religion. And,
• 1:18:13
  you know, obviously, you know, no system is perfect.
• 1:18:15
  Everything has their flaws. But there's a lot
• 1:18:18
  to, I'm sure there's a lot to the Muslim faith,
• 1:18:21
  Islam faith that is extremely valuable that I
• 1:18:24
  bet would have a very positive impact on the
• 1:18:25
  world. And, you know, this is coming from an
• 1:18:28
  Orthodox Jew. You know, I think that generally
• 1:18:32
  belief in God is a good thing. Belief in community,
• 1:18:34
  belief in charity, belief in modesty, belief
• 1:18:36
  in caring for one another is generally a good
• 1:18:38
  thing. And so I... I'm a fan. I thought the show
• 1:18:43
  was very fair for the most part. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:18:44
  you take Nicholas Brody from the first three
• 1:18:47
  seasons, the American prisoner of war who comes
• 1:18:49
  home and then realizes like, oh, wait a minute.
• 1:18:52
  maybe fighting for my country wasn't a great
• 1:18:53
  idea. Maybe the Muslims are the people that I
• 1:18:56
  want to side more with. Um, and then again, like,
• 1:18:59
  you know, the terrorists, uh, you know, some
• 1:19:00
  of them like wanting peace with the U S and,
• 1:19:03
  and the fact that yes, you could go from bad
• 1:19:05
  to good, so to speak. So yeah, there was a lot
• 1:19:07
  of nuance and layers in terms of who could be
• 1:19:10
  the good guy, who could be the enemy and, and,
• 1:19:12
  and Homeland. And I really appreciated that.
• 1:19:14
  Efrem, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 1:19:16
  Uh, if you can, uh, plug away, like how do, how
• 1:19:19
  can people follow you on socials? How can people
• 1:19:20
  follow your Podcasts, everything. Great question.
• 1:19:22
  Thank you. Come together with Afraim Hirschman
• 1:19:25
  on all, anywhere you get your podcast. My Instagram
• 1:19:28
  page is cometogether underscore pod. I just,
• 1:19:32
  I only started a couple of months ago, so it's
• 1:19:35
  still developing, but the podcast has over 200
• 1:19:38
  episodes in the library. And yeah, come together
• 1:19:43
  podcast. Coming together with the Fry and Hirschman,
• 1:19:45
  wherever you got your shows. Love it. And you
• 1:19:47
  can also find The Delicious Culture with Jon
• 1:19:48
  François wherever you got your podcasts, Apple,
• 1:19:50
  Spotify, Amazon, SiriusXM, et cetera. If you
• 1:19:53
  like the podcast, please rate and review on Apple
• 1:19:55
  and Spotify. Email us with any questions, concerns,
• 1:19:58
  feedback, whatever. The Delicious Culture at
• 1:20:01
  gmail .com. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok
• 1:20:03
  at The Delicious Culture. And you can subscribe
• 1:20:05
  on YouTube at The Delicious Culture, Jon François.
• 1:20:09
  All right, until next time, everybody. Let deliciousness.
• 1:20:12
  Ring.