Latest / The You Project / #1724 Shining A Light Into The Darkness - Jamie Stedman

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#1724 Shining A Light Into The Darkness - Jamie Stedman · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, Tiffany and core Kai. Here we are.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Good morning, good afternoon.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Good afternoon.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I've got a little bit of deja vu, deja vu,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: deja vu going on. I feel like there's something familiar
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: about this little image I'm looking at with these three
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: heads on the screen.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: I wasn't here at the beginning of last time, though,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: so I've got.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: No but you did stumble in like a piss blow
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: halfway through the party. The first time I've started a podcast,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and then you've come while the podcast is going, while
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the conversation is lave you let me in. Well, yeah,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: well you're not. You're knocking on the virtual door. You're
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: being noisy. Jamie Andrews deadman, Hi mate, how are you?
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Craig, Anthony and Tiffany and how are you? It's the
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: three middle a'es.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: That's right, Anne, Andrew and Anthony. I think when there's
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: a constantint first like Craig or Tiffany or Jamie, like
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: first letter, there's invariably there's a vowel. Second name isn't there.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: It's not not always, but it's pretty common. It's pretty
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: comic clear right now, and vice versa. I think about
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I think about some of my friends. Now anyway, let's
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: not let's not do a show on that. Let's start
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: with Tiff, has your morning been very good?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: But now I'm going to have to go ask chat
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: GPT you about the origins of consonants and vows for
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: second names. I'm going to be quite obsessed with getting
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: an answer on that.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I just think it sounds better. But then there
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: are some like my mum is Mary Margaret Harper, right,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: but that's very old. She's like, well, her mum was Irish,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and I think that's her name. Was my mum's mom's name?
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I love this was Molly Malone? Is there a more Irish?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: That's my grandmother? Is there a more Irish name in
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the world than Molly Malone?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Definitely not.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I'm twelve and a halfcent Irish. Everyone there you go.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: And when I went to Ireland a couple of years ago, Jamie,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: you didn't come for this, but fuck it, get comfortable.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: When I went to fuck it, he's wearing a grand shirt.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: He looks Irish. I have you ever been anywhere that
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: you've never been before? So you go for the first
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: time and this is going to sound weird, but it
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: was so familiar to me.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I've had friends speak of this. I think it's fascinating.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not like, I'm not a weirdo, Like I'm a weirdo,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: but not in that like I don't that kind of
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know vibe and all that. I'm like, yeah,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: fuck it. When I went to Ireland, I went to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: this little place called Tullamore to present to speak, which
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: is an hour and a half or two hours out
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: of Dublin. And I didn't feel like I've been to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: this town before because I knew I hadn't, and not
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: like I've met these people before, but I felt part
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of me felt like, oh this this energy, this lang,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: not this language, but this accent, this culture, these people
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: are very like. And I've been to maybe I don't know,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: twenty plus countries. I never had that experience. It feels
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: like I'm in a foreign place and I'm not with
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: in inverted commas my people right or I'm not around
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: people like me. But I felt like I belonged there.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: It was so interesting.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Do you reckon it changed you? Just the idea of
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: that lean I.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Don't know, but I don't know why, But I fucking
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: love Irish people. There's something that is and I'm generalizing.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: There's great people in every country and shit people in
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: every country. I'm sure, but my experiences were like from
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the first day I got there and people were like,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I got into Tullamore, I don't know whatever day it was,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: and I was staying in this hotel and people like
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: like asking me where I'm staying. I'm like, I'm staying
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: in the hotel. They're like, oh, you won't be standing there,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: You'll be standing with us, like and people are telling me, no,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You've got to stay in our house, Like these are
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: strangers that happened more than twenty times where people went, no,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: just come stay at our joint. I'm like, no, but
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: thank you. Just bloody, that's never happened anywhere else like that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Doesn't you know you don't, Yeah, maybe it happens to
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: some people. But anyway, enough digressing. Jamie Andrews Deadman Welcome
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: officially to the U Project for the second time in
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: two days. What we can tell our listeners is we
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: did what we started yesterday and we had a few
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: interweb issues and so this is take two.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: It is thanks thanks again for having me, and yeah,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: yesterday was I think a shitty optus issue on my end,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: not the first time, but hopefully the last.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Well, it's all good, mate. You know, you know when
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: one of your biggest problems, or your biggest problem for
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the day is internet connection, that your life is fucking amazing.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: You know, australed me for at least three minutes.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. Well, I'm glad you got over it,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm glad you didn't have to do therapy so
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I don't need to read out something off my screen
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: and sound like some kind of parrot. Why don't you
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: tell our beautiful audience a little bit about the Jamie
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Steadman story, who you are, where you grew up, and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: then we'll do a deep dive because your life is interesting,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: your work is interesting, and there are particular components of
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: your life that are very interesting. So you give us
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the as much or as little as you want.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Harps. I born and bred in regional New
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: South I was in Orange, have lived all over the place,
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: spent a few years overseas, funnily enough, in Ireland here
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: and there. My grandmother's paternal grandmother's last name was Green,
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: so it's for shits and kings. I have done so
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: many jobs it's kind of hard to list, but have
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: found myself now as the men's behavior change facilitator in
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: the domestic violence space, so basically perpetrated as a DV.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Come across my desk and we chat about ways for
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: them to shift their behavior. You know, life hasn't always
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: been simple made. I grew up in a better say,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: a violent house, drug affected where drugs were the order
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: of the day, in electricity and food not so much. Yeah,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: it wasn't always like that. I must say. That was
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: after my dad had left when I was about six,
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: My ability to remember the exact days and dates kind
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: of goes away. And having since research so apparently that's
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a trauma thing. So I didn't know I was traumatized
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: till someone said, hey, that is the thing, and I
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: was like, oh right, So you know I was. I
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: went from burn, a happy, go lucky six year old
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: to effectively burn in charge of raising my ever growing
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: number of siblings half siblings to my very violent stepfather. Yeah,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: that's it. A few years ago I was I was
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: a prison officer for quite some time and got quite ill,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: randomly ended up in a coma for three months, and
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: the first thing I thought of when they woke me,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: was I think I missed my best mate's fortieth birthday
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: cruise as you do.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Let's let's lean into a few of those things. Okay,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: so we'll come back to the coma, but let's start
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: with because now you work interestingly like you grew up
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: in a violent household, with a violent person in your
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: house who was, let's be honest, probably not a fucking
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: great human. Correct me if I'm wrong, And and now
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: you are working with people who were kind of like
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: your stepdad, what's like, violent, abusive, intimidating, or people who
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: at least have been that and are trying to be better.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: How did that? How did that shape the way that
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: you saw the world and the way that you navigated
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the world, having to go home from school or your
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: friend's house aware and going into that very volatile, very
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: dangerous and very I would imagine, terrifying environment.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: It's funny as humans, how very quickly we can pick
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: up and learn from just the way someone walks in
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: the house, the way they talk, the way they carry themselves,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: how they dress. Like I knew really quickly how to
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: read this guy and how to just get the hell
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: out of the house, and of course this was Lates.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Lates of his early eighties sort of things.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: So leaving the house was nothing, you just off you go.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: You'd go and find shit to do and stumble your
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: way across something cool to look at for a little
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: while until such time as you needed to go home
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: and try and point how it shaped me as an adult.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: I guess is that empathy for those both dealing going
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: through it and dealing with it. And as you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: over watching, principle for men's behavior changes to is we
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: keeping women and children safe through the behavior change of men?
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: This is a men's problem. Yeah, the space that I
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: work in predominantly, and you know, at the end of
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: the day, if we can just shift one thought, one time,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: one action, one moment where they just halt for a
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: sac we potentially say a laugh. So yes, yes, pretty big.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Watching your mum get I was in the car when
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: I was I want to say eight, I reckon, yeah,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: and she got hit. She was sitting in the console
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: center console on the front seat because he had a
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: mate sitting on the other side, and this was before
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: seat belts were Yeah, that's the stuff. She got hit
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: so hard she ended up in the back suait. Wow,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: And as an eight year old, I grabbed master Father
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: by the hair and screamed at him to stop doing it,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Like what the hell was I thinking? This was excery me,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: just that protective instinct and.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Then what did he do to you?
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Nothing to me in that moment, but you know later
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: on it was pretty mandatory for him to hold us
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: over a well and threaten to drop us in some gigs.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: So so he would hold you what you would just
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: lift you over the top, so you're.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Actually hanging by the ankle yep, and upside down. This
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: grown ass man would hold a child over an ankle
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: over a well.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for for for anything we got. We got in
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: trouble for years and too much to all of paper.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: So and you know, you know he's not going to
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: drop you in, right, but you also don't because hugely,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: hugely volatile human. Yeah.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So, how many brothers, sisters, step brothers, sisters, how many
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: kids were in the family.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: At that stage. It was my brother and my sister
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: and she had been born to him when my brother
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: was with my dad, and you know, he doated on
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: her hand and foot, so did I. That was she
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: was you know, she looked up to me because we
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: were effectively in charge of raising her at that stage.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So well, yeah, and how did your mum navigate all
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of that? Because your mom's just this victim for years
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: at the hands of this well honest perpetrator.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: It's a hard thing, mate, because oh got me, Craig. Sorry, sorry, mate.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: She was an amazing mom. Yeah, ship till the mate.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: This is why we have these chats. That's why it's real.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: She just it was her burden to carriage. Yeah, you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: she knew it wasn't ideal. She kept us alive as
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: best she could, but women just didn't. How did they
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: fucking get out, Craig. It was still legal to hit
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: your wife at that stage. We hadn't changed the law yet,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: you know, So how do you how do you what
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: a what? What the fucking message are we sending out
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: to those people? Yeah? You know, so mum came from
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: a big Italian family. She moved around because she was
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: embarrassed of where she'd ended up, and that was she
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: just protected us the very best way she could, which
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: was standing in front of you. What an amazing brave mum.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Dude, No wonder that I don't think I would have
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: come through that as well as you've come through that,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: because I couldn't if I had a dad who'd done that.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know what.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: You know, you like to think you do this and
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: that I'll probably do fucking nothing. I'd probably be in
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: therapy for my whole life. But who knows. But I
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: think that's what I am doing, Craig. I think that's
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: exactly what I'm doing my tea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I was thinking like that, you working with blokes that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: were basically that are basically a version of what you
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: grew up in the middle of. Is that apart from
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: trying to get them to change and change their behavior
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and to in turn protect our beautiful moms and sisters
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: and wives and whatever.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Is that part of the recovery for you?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: The therapy for you hugely? Yeahs it's the opportunity is
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: not lost on me to impress on those guys the
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: urgency of change and how easy it actually is to
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: just try something a little bit different.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Where did they without giving away any info that you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: can't mate, how does it work? Like? How did people
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: get court bloody ordered to come see you?
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Do they? Like I want to.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Know because to me, I'm and I'm sure I'm wrong.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: But I've like I've worked, you know, I've done stuff
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: in prisons. I've spoken in quite a few prisons, and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I've worked in rehab an addiction with people that are
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: court ordered you know, treatment, and and a lot of
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: them are not too fucking voluntary. You know, they're there
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: because they have to be. I don't see a whole
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: lot of remorse, you know, interestingly not navigate that well,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: it's that discussion, isn't it.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: It's that accountability. There are there are some guys that
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: are court mandated to be but lots fewer them than
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: you actually would think. Most of them are referred slash recommended,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: so their loyers will get him involved because it looks
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: good at court, let's be honest. But we also don't
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: provide them any love in that space. There is absolutely
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: no guarantee that completing this course will mean anything. Yes,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: and that's kind of the most important part that we
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: speak about when it comes to let us for court
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: of support and all this sort of stuff, which we
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: don't do a lot of. I don't. I mean I will,
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: but it's very very black and white, as like Joe
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Bloggs has been here three times, has engaged on those
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: dates at this time. Hm. Literally, it doesn't say because
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: you know, just because it looks like he's doing well
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: from my perspective, it doesn't mean shit once he leaves you.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I have a sense when I'm talking to people who
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you know, this is very different. Well, it's not totally different.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: It's in the same space in that like people come
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to me to talk or to be coached or mentored
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: or whatever because they want to change.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: There's something about their habits or their behavior, or their
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: thinking or the way they do life they want to change, right,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And obviously it's not in the space you're in, but
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: it's still it's people are turning up because they want
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: to well they say they want to change, yes, But
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: when I sit down with people sometimes I'm like some
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: not not a huge percentage, and I'm like, you don't
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you don't want to change. You like the idea of change,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: but you don't want to do the work of change.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Like you want to sit with Craig Harper and talk.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: That's what you want, and you want to go I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: went and spoke with this bloke or whatever. And sometimes
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I not a few times, Like a lot of times,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I'll see somebody and I go, there's zero I could
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: be wrong, but to me, there's zero chance that this
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: person is actually going to leave this chat, turn their
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: life around, turn their behaviors around, and do the work
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: like you must. You must deal with that on a
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: regular Well.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: The bullshit radar is pretty strong, and I make no
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: bones about it, and I myself and my colleague where
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: we operate very similar and her voice is even more
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: important than mine in their space. But we get the
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: guys group ready, is how we turn it. And eventually
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: you know who's hanging around to tick a box and
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: who isn't. And at the end of the day, mate,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: we can't kick them out just because they're ticking a box,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: because what if that one neck week is where they
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: shift into change.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: So like the term that you use or that I guess,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: like the almost like the job description is Men's behavior
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: change Facilitator or whatever. Right to me, it's almost like
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I think before the behavior change needs to come thinking
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: change because they're thinking that it's you know, it's like, well,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: the behaviors are just a consequence of how that person
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: thinks and chooses right and I know that it's all
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: it's just semantics here, but like, if somebody thinks a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: certain way, how do you I know, you can't make
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: them think differently or make them be different, but how
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: do you influence them in a way where you're as
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: much as is possible, Jamie influencing their behavior? Moving forwards spoke.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: I listened to quite a bit Harps, and he has
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: said a few things that have really resonated with me
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: over the years. And the first one is always be curious.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: And so someone will mention to me a thought process
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: or where and I just say, help me understand where
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: that comes from. What were you thinking prior to that?
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Where were you emotionally? What does that look like that
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: you've been doing leading up to it? Like, you know,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: we're talking a lot about the potential for drug taking
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: and drinking and drinking huge in this space, and so
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: in those lead ups we then start talking about what
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: was she saying to you? What were you hearing? Because
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: often the two are very different, and it just leads
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: us down a pathway of an opportunity to think differently.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: How do you think you might do this next time?
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: What might that look like? And you do this next time,
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: because you know, arguments are part and parcel of relationships,
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: so so differences of opinion and thought and all this
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: sort of stuff. So it's it's making sure that people
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: are just being prepared to respond rather than react. Remember
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: that there's that space, that opportunity.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I would imagine. I would imagine that like with any
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: change process. You know, it's like, how do you get
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: in shape? While well, we don't all eat the same
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: food and we don't all do the same workout. How
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: do we change your body? How do we medicate a
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: particular medical condition? You know, it's like, well, there's no
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: like it depends, like there are a lot of variables.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And while the while the common theme is domestic violence,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you could have ten different conversations about the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: same issue with ten different people trying to get the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: best outcome.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: So so much mate, the differences in backgrounds, in biases,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: and cultural differences in belief systems, prejudices, it's a tricky
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: space to navigate. But we simply focus on the behavior,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: not the human as much as humanly possible. Obviously, you
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: know where we've made these guys. Look, it's empowerment too.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Perhaps we want those guys to understand that they're allowed
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: to be different, that the fucking man box isn't always
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: the best place to operate from, that you can step
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: outside of it quite comfortably and just do something different
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: to what you were taught, what you believe, what you think.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And also, I guess the man box doesn't have to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: look like what they think. Like I think I'm a man,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: but it never dawns on me to fucking hit a woman,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: And you know, we go so far beyond just that
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: physical stuff, mate. One of the most heartbreaking things if
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: I hear from women, there's two sentences that I that
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: just break me in half. And the first one is
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: I wish you'd hit me because it'll be easy to
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: deal with, so that coercial control. Wow, So they'd rather
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: get hit because it's tangible. Yes, And then the next
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: one is I wish i'd stayed with him, My life
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: would be easier. What are we fucking doing to people
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: where we can't support women enough now that they're comfortable
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: enough to leave? And I would say to those blokes often,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: I want you to love people so hard that they
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: feel free to to get fucked and walk out the
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: door safely.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, it's like love is a
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: oh fuck, don't start me on the love conversation. Love
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: is fucking complicated, like love is actually to me anyway.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: This is my very probably naive take, but this is
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: how I feel like. And I'm a selfish fuck sometimes
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: and I don't walk my own talk. Put up my hand.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: But like, love is wanting the best thing for somebody else,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: even if it's maybe momentarily the worst thing for you.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: You know, that's the that's the perfect answer, I reckon harps.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Love is for itom yeah, yeah, and that edom to love,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: to be loved, and to leave if you need to.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Tell me about I don't know if you have data
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: or stats on this, but what is the what are
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the numbers around, or what is the evidence around the
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: relationship between domestic violence and booze? Is most domestic violence?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Does most of it involve booze? Half of it?
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Some of it numbers? There are some numbers, nothing that
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I can think of off the top of my head.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: All I can tell you is I've got a list
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: of currently sixty plus blokes, fifty five of which would
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: be our coal related incidences.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Right, So, we're looking at like over ninety percent have
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: got to do with booze And what about I mean,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I know I'm asking. By the way, everyone, everything we're
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: saying today, none of it is a recommendation or a prescription.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: This is just Harps and Jamie and periodically Tiff. Tiff.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I know you're passionate about this, so feel free to
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: jump in ask a question or add what about people
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: that are just sociopaths, mate psychopaths, charismatic charming psychopaths who
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: just know how to be, They know to they know
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: how to play people, they know how to because some
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: people who do this are also charismatic, charming, and depending
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: on the setting, quite likable and often good looking, like
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: fucking terrible humans.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I get I burn an ex prison officer. I can
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: sense the manipulation quite quickly. But these most men in
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: this space are master manipulators. They've been doing it for
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: so so long that it's outrageous that finally being caught,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: so to speak, or whatever the case may be. And
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: when they come in here, there's a level of that
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: that that jumps out at your pretty quick. The the charm,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: and I actually get on with most of these guys
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: quite easily. They're not not inviting them around for a barbecue.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: But you know, they're just blokes at the end of
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: the day. Who who I get an opportunity to talk to,
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: pull them apart, challenge them and hopefully get them to
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: just use one of the tools, Just take one for
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: a test run and see if it works.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Do you ever you ever have a moment with somebody
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: where it's like there's a there's a real genuine breakthrough,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: not just some kind of not lip service. You know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: there's not there's tears, there's fucking there's a breakdown, and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: you know, well as much as you can know, you're like, no,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: this is this is there's something going on here which
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: is good.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: You can you can almost it's almost a vibe. You
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: know when you've you know, when you've broken through the wall.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I've got a cool little story. And this is not
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: going to mean a lot to a lot of people
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: from a change perspective, But I've got a young Aboriginal
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: fellaw in our group, and he's quiet. He's not had
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: any male role models whatsoever. He's only a young fellaw.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: He's seemingly quite desperate to shift. Every now and again,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: he speaks up and it's the most amazing thing that
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: drops out of him that you can get. A couple
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: of weeks ago, it's bucketing rain, it's it was still
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: kind of you know, winter Ishian orange and Orange is
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: a cold place. This guy had been arguing raooing was
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: his term with his girl all day, going at it
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: all day, low socio economic chat, good, good, good. Young
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: fellow just doesn't know any better. And he walked all
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: the way down here in the rain. So when he
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: come in literally to Tommy, he couldn't do group because
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: he wasn't feeling very good. We had to have a
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: suicide discussion and all this sort of stuff as well.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: This is all while I'm trying to run a group
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: or get group started. Literally, so he could come down
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: and Tommy couldn't do group, so he could walk home again.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: And that was him leaving to keep her safe. Wow,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: And it's not an option he'd ever considered using previously. Right,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: it's a that is a massive, massive breakthrough, and not
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: a lot of people are going to understand how big
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: a deal that is. But for him it's so far
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: removed from his normal. I was so impressed, so proud,
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: so just wrapped in in that because change looks different
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: to everyone.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: How many people Jamie who perpetrayed domestic violence grew up
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: in it? Is it the greater percentage? Like we don't
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: generally get that stat Craig.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: We it comes out as part of the discussion more
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: or less than the one on one stuff for a
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: lot of them. But you're both surprised how few really?
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: That actually concerns me, to be honest, because now to
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: behavior you've chosen instead of one you actually grew up with, which.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Is is there more of a less of it? The
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: same have we got? Is there just more awareness and
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: attention which there should be.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: I think all of the above made I think that
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: with women in particular, are finally starting to understand what
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: a devair relationship is from an empowerment perspective, which is great.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: And of course as they start to speak up, then
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: we start to act hopefully, and of course unfortunately, if
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: you look what's the numbers today, ninety three women ninety
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: three made it went up one overnight, So we're at
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: one point nine per week, nearly two women a week
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: being killed while someone they know, someone they love, someone
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: they're supposed to be in love with them now this
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: is a horrific stat and it keeps going up, and unfortunately,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: I think, and I don't know, people will push back
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: and get cranky. But the more the women speak up,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: the more the douchebags are going to fucking do their
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: because now they're being challenged, Now they're being embarrassed, now
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: they're being shamed.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: So I mean, again, remember everyone, this is I'm genuinely
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It's not an area I know a lot about. I'm
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: curious and so if my questions are not the best questions,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: it's because I'm kind of finding my way. I feel
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: like it's a catch twenty two for ladies because if
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: they speak up, they get in trouble. If they don't
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: speak up, their life, shit do they do they? I
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: feel like you've almost got to create your own escape
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: plan and then just push the button. Like well some
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: women anyway, maybe not all.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: But I don't want to speak to how difficult, how
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: crazy it must be toleief under that fucking number, to'll
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: be walking around on eggshells to finally speak out until
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: the bloke this isn't how you treat people or whatever,
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: and then for them to for their actions to then
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: increase rather than decrease what you know, how how horrifically
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: difficult that must be for women. You know, they're trying
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: to keep their kids safe, they're trying to put food
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: on the table. The blokes withholding money or he spent
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: it all on his fucking flash motorbike or just so
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: much genuine douche baggery out there that it's it's mind blowing,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: and you know it may be a matter of time.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: There's all those bugs forgetting that women give birth to us,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: keep treating the mark us, and that's going to stop.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I should have asked you this before, But who do
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you work for? Like, who pays for all this? It's
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: an n g O.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: I don't want to because it's a bit too opinionated,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: so I don't want them to getting all sad. The
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: toughest part about all this made is the regulation and
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: the stuff we have to do to just tick boxes
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: to keep getting paid. The government says we're going to
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: give you heaps of my money, but we don't see
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: any of it, and it's stupid. I've got there's literally
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: three of us in my team. I've got six. There's
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: sixty five blokes who are trying to put through groups
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: that happen every ten weeks. I could run a group
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: every night, and that's an unfortunate's that in and of itself,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: right m m. But the two girls in the team,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: you know, my co facilitator. Her voice is huge in
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: this space. It's when she speaks, there's a there's a
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: lot of modeling that has to go on, Like I
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: have to make sure i'd give her the room and
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: I give her the respect and I give her the space.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: And because the blokes think like some think less of women,
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: and that's just how I am. So if I can be,
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: I need to model the behavior I believe in, make
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: sure I'm practicing all that. And my other colleague, in
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: my mind, she's got the hardest job. She is what
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: we call the family safety worker. So it's her job
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: to be ringing the ex partners current partners and offer
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: them support and you know whatever that looks like, even
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: an escape plan if if the risk is severe enough.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: So what she does is phenomenal, mate, And you know,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: all on a shoestring, as pretty much everyone does.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think any of you are in it
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: for the doughmate, No.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: No, I would do it for free. Harps just don't
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: tell him.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I said that, yeah, yeah, And what about what about you?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Like you're dealing with I know that, like your intentions
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: are good and you're doing good work, but it's a
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: it's an almost overwhelming challenge, right because, like you said,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: you could be doing way more stuff, but you don't
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: have the manpower, the resources. How do you because I
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: feel there's probably a bit of PTSD just you know,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: into your back as you navigate this, how do you?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: And then when I talk to your mum, clearly that's
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: all very close to the surface and raw. How do
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: you manage you? How do you? How do you? You know,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: we all have our peaks and trust, but how do
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: how do you protect you while still doing what you
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: need to do?
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: It's not always easy, mate. Sometimes I'm not a great dad.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm not a great friend or a great partner.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: But what I've done is empower those closest to me
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: to call me out because sometimes I don't see it.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: So yeah, given permission to say, hey, this is different
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: to your normal. The other stuff is paying attention to
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: what I call burnon circle. I hate when people say
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: I'm on path because path has like a starting point
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: in a finished point, so I like it. Yeah, yeah, anyway.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: I so the gym coffee connection my big three if
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: any of those slipped for too long.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: So, so what about I'm thinking about the ability some
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: men have to have like bullshitty man conversations that are
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: not very uplifting for women. What if you find yourself
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: you know where some guys are And by the way,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: I think that goes both ways. I've had a lot
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: of conversations with wives who run their husbands down in
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the gym, but we're not talking about that. That's a
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: different thing.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: So that is a different thing I want to I
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: want to touch on that. hYP So someone having a
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: conversation with you and running their partner down, that's a
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: connection thing. That's freedom, that is. But me and you're
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: sitting at the pub bonding by othering women, Yeah, is
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: kind of disgusting. Shit. Yes, have I done it, absolutely
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: because I'm old and it was a normal thing to
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: do once upon a time. But for whatever reason, I
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: grew up and I can actually remember the exact moment
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: a bloke simply didn't indulge in the bullshit that was
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: going on at the table, and I noticed, and I
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: asked him any interest yes. And so that's my big
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: challenge for all blokes right now is I don't expect
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: you to call out the bullshit if you're not comfortable
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: enough to do it right, because it might be you
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: a punch in the mouth. Not everyone wants one. Yeah,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: but your other obligation is very simple. You simply have
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: to do nothing. Just don't indulge. If you're comfortable enough,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: turn you back, get up and walk away, because what
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: you're doing in that moment is saying to the other
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: guys at the table, I'm not doing this shit, and
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: someone in there is watching you, somebody's going to come
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: and question you, and there's an opportunity for growth and empowerment. Yeah. Yeah,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: that's how we have these cool conversations. I just get
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: in this space. Harp's. One of the most frustrating thing
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I see is when I go to rallies or gatherings.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: It's always weird men happen, but men and ones telling
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: me that they support this stuff, that they love their women.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, well, where the fuck are you? Yes,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: you don't have to do anything, just go to the thing.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Stop out. Yeah, sorry, a little bit soap boxy.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: No, no, I fucking love it, mate. Well, clearly it's
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: like this is your passion and your purpose, and so
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: if you weren't this emotional, I would be disappointed or
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I would be surprised, right because this is but now anyway,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: maybe forever, but this is why you're here, it seems.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Is there are there any like programs that are research based,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: evidence based, like programs designed and implemented to deal with,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: you know, domestic violence, Like here's here's a program that's
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: been designed to take men through this or is that
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: not available. I'm not saying that's necessarily any better than
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: what you do, but I'm just saying it's like with
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: every other fucking thing, we've got some evidence based kind
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: of protocol or operating system or treatment option or strategy
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: to deal with these things. What about this?
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: Yes, in the short term, but once again, the problem
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: with challenging humans to change is lip service. Right. The
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: evidence based stuff is that if you adopt this, we
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: know it will work. Yes, right, same as push ups
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: if you stop watching others do and you'll get better
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: at it if you do.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: If you start doing them.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's amazing. So, like all things, unless you're actually
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: willing to implement and lean into the hard stuff. Yeah,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: and it just won't happen. Yeah.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: So you've got lots of people listening. Now, you've got
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: lots of men, you've got lots of women, And what
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: do people? I don't know. I didn't prep you for this,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't need to be particularly elegant or eloquent.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: What do you Yeah, come on, get your eloquent on.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: If you could see him, everybody's about as eloquence as me.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: So what do you well, what would you love to
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: share with people? Because there are going to be people
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: listening to this who are like this is maybe hopefully
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: there's a few a few men who maybe need to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: hear this and recognize a little bit of themselves in
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: what you're saying and need to go fuck, I need
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to pull my head in or watch myself or maybe
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: own up and step up. Or there might be women
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: that need support or help, Like what do you want
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: to say to both of those groups?
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: The biggest thing is to get yourself educated in what
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: abuse constitutes what constitutes abuse? So there are there's a list.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: Perhaps I can promise you if I spoke one on
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: one with every man in my town, most of them
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: would look at this list at some says and go shit,
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: I am guilty of some of these right now. The
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: other side of that coin, of course, is the women
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: not knowing that, fuck me, I'm actually in this relationship.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: So it would be simply educating yourself and be willing
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: to have those discussions with each other. Of the issues
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: we face as couples is through poor communication, through difficult
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: conversations had well and just scheduling that in how's your day,
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: what's going on for you, what's happening in your world?
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: You know, asking the kids what went well today? What
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: can we do better next time? What do you need
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: from me? As a dad? Like actually I can empower
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: them to put you in their lives. I hate the
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: fact that I work in the harm minimization space. I
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: want to work in harm prevention, and I would imagine
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: that most people in this environment want to. But we
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: need to be having really tough conversations with ten, eleven,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: twelve year old kids. We need to show them, Hey girls,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: here's a list of ship for you never to put
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: up with. Hey boys, here's a list of stuff you
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: need to never does. Guess what those lists look exactly?
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: The I wonder that that I've never thought of that, Like,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I've never thought of opening that door on young young
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: women or young girls and young boys. And because it
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: seems like, oh, this is not something that children need
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: to learn about. Absolutely, Wait, maybe they do.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Maybe the language halts. All of this stuff is in
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: the language, mate. The more we allow our little boys
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: to talk shit about girls, yeah, the more we don't say, hey,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: that's not how you do this. Yeah, the more we
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: don't pull them up. You know, there's a there's a
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: few pretty powerful little programs that are run in schools,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: but they kind of bounce around the subject.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Right, kids are.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Tougher and more able to deal with this ship than
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: ever ever before, at any other time on this planet. Right,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: they know some stuff. Most of them are probably doing
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: things that I'd be afraid to try. Yeah, But if
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: we don't, if we don't empower them now to have
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: those conversations to recognize right and wrong, then my job
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: is just going to keep getting harder and harder. And
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: I want that.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I've got a tricky I've got a tricky question for
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you again. So another one. So I've got a hypothetical.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: By the way, everyone, this is a hypothetical. I'm not
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: talking about someone said I try and figure it out. Okay.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: So I know a couple and from the outside looking
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of you know works. There's this public
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: version of the relationship which is okay, but behind closed
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: doors that's not the case at all. And the dude
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: is very controlling and very strong and very you know
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: whatever fill in the blank, and the female is the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: opposite of that. And I'm an outside observer and I
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: know that if I try to do anything that won't work. Well,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: if I try to talk to him, he'll deny it,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: potentially get aggressive. And I know there's no simple answer
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: to this, but I think all of us probably know
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: someone or someone's where there's a version of that going on.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: What like you don't want to do nothing, but you
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: don't want to throw a match on it.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: This is a really, really tough situation and I can't
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: speak for everyone. What I would do is get educated,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: go speak to there's dvout specialists at the place. There's
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: relationship advice you can get online through relationships Australia. Know
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: what you can do, what you can't do, what you
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: can and can't get away with. There are you know
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: for those two that might be how they do life. Yeah,
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: but it does not mean that you can't raise a
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: question and hey, you have to be prepared to lose
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: a friend to save a life. Yeah yeah, yeah, wow.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: If people want to get if people want to support
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: this kind of work or even do this kind of work,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: which is it's tough work, or people want to support you,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: or how do people how do people get involved? If
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: somebody's got an interest in whatever this, they've got a
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: psyched background or a counseling back ground, or they want
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: to do some kind of certification where they can get
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: involved and work in their space and help. I mean,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: this is a multifaceted issue. This is not a three
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: step solution, and this is you know, there are so
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: many parts to this, so there's no quick fix. But like,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: what do we need? Who do we need? Apart from
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: funding which is the obvious one, but can people get
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: involved to do what you do?
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I still don't know how I landed here, HAPs, so
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: that's a tough question. I think there's an organization called
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: MTV Note of Violence and they are our overarching body,
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: and that would be the first step I would expect.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: And there are unfortunately a lot of opportunities to work
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: in the domestic violence space variously. Currently in this country,
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: whe're going through what we call sixteen days of activism,
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: and of course, as I said previously, just fucking show up. Yeah,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: I'm talking about it, Start doing it. Waste no more
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: time talking about what a good man is.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: We won. I was sharing this. I think I was
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: sharing with Tiff and some I don't know. I do
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts, mine and others, so some weeks
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I do like ten or eleven podcasts, including seven of
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: my own. But I think I was talking to you yesterday, Tiff,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: or the day before. A couple of months ago, I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: ran a workshop in Hampton, Mate, just down the road,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: and it was a small group. And I apologize to
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: my listeners who heard this story, but one of the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: ladies in the group was five hours. But one of
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: the ladies in the group, you know, we're all kind
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: of interacting, and she goes, my ex husband hates you,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: like hates me, right, And I'm like, that's not the
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: smallest group. There's a few husbands and ex husbands and
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: boyfriends who right. I'm like, I'm okay with that. And
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I said, well, when did like, when did he and
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I intersect where did I meet him? And she goes, oh,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: he's never met you. I went what She goes, He
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't know you, he's never met you, he's never listened
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: to a conversation of podcasts, nothing, But he thinks that
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: you're the reason that we broke up, right, So the
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: reason his marriage was destroyed was because of me. I'm like, Wow,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: how fucking delusion was that bloke? How much how arrogant
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: and self righteous are you when you think that somebody
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: that you've never met or had a conversation with you,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: is that the reason that your marriage your marriage didn't work.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: I'm like, it's amazing how many guys don't he what
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: the women are asking of them, or telling them or
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: explaining to them. And eventually, you know, they either get
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: sick of saying it, whether they say it a different
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: way by leaving or by yelling, and just so many
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: different ways. And what we do know is the girls
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: are telling us. The women are speaking right to us.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: They tell us exactly what they want. We just don't listen.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: And in this most case, really was not listening until
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: he decided that it was all you.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking Craig Harper effect. Hey mate, you're a gun.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: We didn't even talk about your coma. We'll do that
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: next time, if there's the next time. But how do
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: people connect with you or learn more or what do
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: you want to and where do you want to direct
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: people towards? If anything.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: I do have a website, Jamie stebben dot net. It
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: is it needs updating. It's probably the easiest way. Or
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: just email me on Jamie's steado at gmail dot com.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Jamie Jamie Steado at gmail dot comedy's home address. Everyone
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: is number seven. No, all right, it's been We got
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: through it. No internet problems today.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: So that was nice. Thank you and it went a
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: different way again, which was really cool.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: So all buddy, we'll say we'll say goodbye for here,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: but for the moment, mate, we appreciate you being on
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: the new project Tiff for you O K.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, thank you, Thanks Jamie, cool, Thanks everyone.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: Thanks course