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The Savages Omnibus (featuring Mark Rawlins) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:08
  You are welcome, welcome indeed, though we know you only as a
• 0:13
  record in our charts of space and time, yet you seem to us
• 0:16
  like an old friend. Well, that's very kind of you to
• 0:19
  make me few so welcome. We are honoured by your visit.
• 0:22
  The whole city looks upon you with admiration.
• 0:24
  Let me introduce myself. I am Jana, Leader of the Council
• 0:28
  of Elders. These are my counsellors.
• 0:32
  We have all known about you for a long time.
• 0:35
  Look, we have charted your voyages from Galaxy to Galaxy
• 0:42
  and from age to age, but we never thought that we would meet
• 0:45
  you face to face. This is a great moment in our
• 0:47
  history to mark our admiration. We would be pleased if you would
• 0:52
  accept the office of one of our high Elders.
• 0:56
  That's very good of you, yes, Very good of you indeed.
• 1:00
  Yes. I don't remember being so highly
• 1:03
  honoured before like this anywhere I've been.
• 1:05
  Me recognizing you, the greatest specialist in time space
• 1:09
  exploration, you have taken this branch of learning far beyond
• 1:12
  our elementary. Come, come, my dear Sir.
• 1:15
  I know that you've been very responsible for vast scientific
• 1:19
  research, and at the same time I always knew a race existed of
• 1:23
  great intelligence in this segment of the universe.
• 1:25
  Thank you, Doctor. We like to think that we have
• 1:28
  created here something of lasting value.
• 1:30
  You have you. Have indeed you have.
• 1:33
  And if I may say so, thank you, dear ladies, for making me
• 1:37
  appear so grand. Not just two friends, Stephen
• 1:42
  and. You are very welcome.
• 1:44
  Here you are, both of you. Well, I don't think I was so far
• 1:47
  wrong, my boy. What do I look like, my dear?
• 1:51
  Oh. You're really with it now,
• 1:52
  Doctor. Yes, with what, my dear?
• 1:54
  What is this place? Did the doctor not tell you?
• 1:56
  Well, not exactly. He said it was an age of peace
• 1:59
  and prosperity. Yes, and I was right.
• 2:02
  Very highly developed civilized minds.
• 2:05
  But our calculations were incomplete.
• 2:07
  We did not realize that the doctor would have anyone with
• 2:09
  him. Nevertheless, although our
• 2:12
  honors are for him, our gifts are for you.
• 2:17
  Oh, thank you. It's beautiful.
• 2:21
  He's a real dime. Perhaps Stephen and Dodo would
• 2:24
  like to make themselves at home our young people.
• 2:26
  Will show them wrong. An excellent idea, Sir.
• 2:28
  We are by going now. Perhaps you will leave me next
• 2:30
  time I tell you I know precisely where I am.
• 3:08
  A hamster with a plump pen knife are doing quicker, quicker,
• 3:10
  quicker. Yes, I am going to defeat your
• 3:17
  just as I always defeat the Daleks.
• 3:22
  Welcome back to Hamster with a blump and Knife, the Doctor Who
• 3:26
  commentary podcast. Hello.
• 3:29
  Hello. How are you doing?
• 3:31
  I'm very well. Look here, I've got a question
• 3:35
  for you. Oh, straight away, straight in
• 3:37
  there. This particular story, The
• 3:39
  Savages. Yes.
• 3:42
  What was a fucking odd choice. Why don't you pick this one?
• 3:45
  We can't even watch it move in. Well, I think it's quite
• 3:48
  interesting doing a a missing story towards the end of Season
• 3:53
  3. I feel like it's a very sort of
• 3:55
  forgotten time of Doctor Who because of the, you know, like
• 3:59
  the savages, the smugglers, people don't really talk about
• 4:02
  that. Because I was going to call this
• 4:04
  like the Bermuda Triangle of Doctor Who.
• 4:06
  It is like this like period where nobody talks about.
• 4:13
  I think it's the ones you just named Savages smugglers.
• 4:16
  And to Highlanders to extent as well.
• 4:19
  Yeah, but they do talk about the gunfighters, the war machines
• 4:24
  and the 10th planet. But those other three are almost
• 4:27
  completely forgotten about, and I think they've all got charms.
• 4:32
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 4:34
  I think that's what interests me about them, that you there isn't
• 4:37
  as much talk about it and there's obviously because
• 4:41
  they're missing We we don't really have much of the savages
• 4:43
  at all, just the telly snaps and the audio do.
• 4:46
  You know, can I drop my first of my absolutely fascinating facts?
• 4:49
  OK. Well, because John Wells was not
• 4:52
  interested in telly snaps, which is why there's that whole period
• 4:54
  at the in the middle of Season 3 where there's no telly snaps for
• 4:58
  the stories that are missing. I know which actually Daleks
• 5:01
  master plan. If they all had telly snaps we
• 5:04
  could have. Fabulous still images of episode
• 5:07
  7 of Daleks master plan. That woman's screaming right
• 5:09
  off. Oh.
• 5:10
  In the Hollywood. Place.
• 5:11
  Oh, well, we do have actually one of those, don't we?
• 5:13
  But that's not an official telesnap.
• 5:15
  But this was the first story where John Kira was commissioned
• 5:20
  to do telesnaps right the way through until the mind robber
• 5:24
  because Jerry Davis was much more interested in in having
• 5:28
  like a visual images for the story.
• 5:30
  We thank God because otherwise. We'd.
• 5:33
  Only have the soundtrack to go by air.
• 5:35
  Yeah, that would be a lot. What?
• 5:37
  OK, I've got a question about the telesnap set.
• 5:39
  Would you find that you can sort of piece together how the story
• 5:44
  looks from, you know, 100 still images?
• 5:47
  I mean, they're not always the best images, are they?
• 5:51
  This. One, I think they're pretty
• 5:52
  good. Yeah, I mean, there's sometimes
• 5:54
  they can be a bit hit and miss, but it's better than nothing,
• 5:57
  isn't it? You might have a few behind the
• 5:59
  scenes or publicity photos, but imagine if we just didn't have,
• 6:05
  and it was so lucky to have telesnaps as Doctor Who fans.
• 6:09
  Everybody, we're all lucky everybody, aren't we?
• 6:11
  And we're all lucky that we've got all these, all the sound.
• 6:14
  Imagine if there's a Doctor Who story, because that's fans.
• 6:17
  So that's fucking on their TV. Yeah, somebody who's put a radio
• 6:20
  up against the television. Yeah.
• 6:21
  That's just fans. That's not official.
• 6:22
  Yeah, none of that is official, so that's even more.
• 6:24
  Like the geeks? I mean, yeah, absolutely.
• 6:27
  Because imagine if there was like the Savages or something
• 6:29
  like that where we had what, there's like 2 publicity photos.
• 6:34
  So what's that? So one in it you've got the
• 6:35
  Savage and William Hart. No audio with.
• 6:37
  His reacting vibrator. Yeah, no audio and no telly
• 6:41
  stamps. All we would have is, well, we'd
• 6:43
  have the novelisation or the script and trying to piece that
• 6:46
  together, whereas we'd all be at conventions going to Peter
• 6:50
  Pervis. Remember what did, what happened
• 6:52
  in this one. Tell us exactly.
• 6:53
  Draw it. Draw what you saw.
• 6:56
  Tell us the colours of everything.
• 6:57
  Tell us what it looked like now. Oh my.
• 7:00
  God, I can't get a word in it for Peter.
• 7:02
  Purvis would be exactly the same.
• 7:04
  You'd be like. This ginger bloke came up to me
• 7:07
  and started attacking me with a bit of paper.
• 7:09
  And everybody in these 60s episodes would be like, I have
• 7:11
  no idea. I just went to work for like one
• 7:13
  day 50 years ago. I cannot tell you everything
• 7:15
  that I had. Can you tell?
• 7:16
  Can you tell me what you had for lunch 10 years ago at work?
• 7:19
  No. Exactly.
• 7:21
  What, are you suggesting I get somebody to take 10 still images
• 7:25
  a day of my life so I can remember what's going on every
• 7:28
  day? Joe Ford's telesnaps.
• 7:32
  They'd be very boring. It'd actually just be me eating
• 7:34
  a wanking, I'll tell you. Oh.
• 7:37
  My God, imagine if they had like Instagram and stuff and they
• 7:40
  were making Daleks master plan. You'd have all selfies of the
• 7:42
  delegates. We'd know exactly what they're
• 7:44
  going to make up today of if you know, open social media
• 7:49
  centrist, can you? Imagine that episode 2 of
• 7:51
  Savages came out. Yeah, Twitter was around.
• 7:54
  I mean, I didn't go around much longer.
• 7:55
  At this rate, it'd be like the doctor's going to change.
• 7:58
  The doctor's going to die. He's.
• 8:00
  I mean, if being sucked off inside that machine.
• 8:03
  What's going on? Everyone will be speculating who
• 8:05
  the next Doctor Who is going to be.
• 8:07
  Yes. And will it be Frederick Jaeger?
• 8:09
  Yeah. There's so much to talk about
• 8:10
  this. Do you set reports?
• 8:12
  It'll be like Dodo bucked by a savage.
• 8:15
  So now we go live to Jackie Lane and the latest set of Doctor
• 8:19
  Who, Doctor Who Confidential. Oh my God.
• 8:21
  Imagine. Well, when I got the script for
• 8:23
  this one I was so excited. I had to look up.
• 8:27
  Oh, Stephen, that's a savage. And I think viewers are going to
• 8:31
  be in for a treat. I don't know who this is.
• 8:33
  Jackie's legit. Jackie Lane or not, they're
• 8:35
  going to be in for a treat because I think everyone thinks
• 8:37
  we're going back in time. But there's more to it than
• 8:40
  that. You went from like American to.
• 8:43
  Russian. To somewhere north of Devon.
• 8:45
  Just saying. Jackie Lane's got a very
• 8:48
  changeable accent. The Savages.
• 8:50
  Here we are at Is it French and Ponds?
• 8:52
  Yeah, French and Ponds, where Peter Purvis is filming his last
• 8:55
  episode of Doctor Who. I would love a Doctor Who
• 8:58
  confidential for the William Hartnell times.
• 9:00
  Imagine you'd have William Hartnell in the background being
• 9:02
  all racist, wouldn't you? Now look, actually before.
• 9:06
  Oh bloody hell, we're 5 minutes in already.
• 9:08
  We've barely talked about the savages.
• 9:10
  Well, we were just saying This is why I chose.
• 9:12
  I said, can we do the savages? Because I think, yeah, there's a
• 9:15
  lot to uncover about it. There's a lot just people don't
• 9:18
  know about it, I don't think. And I think it would be more
• 9:21
  obviously more highly regarded if this had been found or even
• 9:24
  if we had one episode, I think. People, people think that your
• 9:27
  choices, you know, are, are very enjoyable because you go for the
• 9:31
  Chase Battlefield, Android Invasion and auto #2 BBV spin
• 9:37
  off. I mean, they're always very
• 9:39
  interesting choices though, aren't they?
• 9:41
  Yeah, I just want to say right, because, you know, I just said
• 9:44
  about how not being all racist just then.
• 9:46
  So I learnt a fact about this this very morning when I went on
• 9:50
  to the Tardy wiki page, All Hail Tardy's wiki page about the fact
• 9:57
  that this was supposed to mirror apartheid in South Africa and
• 10:03
  originally all of the elders were going to be in blackface.
• 10:10
  Well, I was glad they didn't do that that.
• 10:12
  Would have been awkward, but there is Frederick Jager.
• 10:14
  No, Frederick Jager is in blackface.
• 10:16
  You look in the tennis snaps and the publicity pictures, he has
• 10:20
  got like a darker hue to his face.
• 10:22
  I thought he was gold. I don't know why, I just thought
• 10:25
  he was gold. And they've given them a shimmer
• 10:28
  like that. It's not.
• 10:29
  Well, it is a bit obvious in some of.
• 10:30
  Them they do it in science, it's.
• 10:32
  Like how people don't talk about that because people are like,
• 10:34
  oh, the crusade, you can't do that.
• 10:36
  You know that in the crusade is bad.
• 10:38
  What was the other one? This, probably this.
• 10:41
  OK, But let's be honest, had they gone down this approach,
• 10:44
  this would have been the most offensive.
• 10:46
  Yeah. What's?
• 10:46
  The other. One that everyone talks about
• 10:48
  the crusade and. Talent's wearing Triang.
• 10:52
  Talent's wearing Triang, you know, stuff like that.
• 10:55
  But again, this, it is obvious there in the Talisnaps.
• 10:59
  Now. You said it.
• 10:59
  Yeah, was talked about. And why would I just hire a
• 11:03
  black actor? Or we've been here before.
• 11:05
  Well, again, that's the crusade and other things as well, but.
• 11:09
  It does seem to be as well that when you talk about these
• 11:12
  things, people go, well, it was the 60s, That's an excuse just
• 11:15
  because it was set in the 60s. I can see in the storyline what
• 11:19
  they were trying to do the way that they're saying.
• 11:22
  Yeah, they were doing, weren't they?
• 11:23
  It's a. Very strong idea.
• 11:24
  People in power are dehumanising the the lower castes.
• 11:29
  And you can apply this to stuff happening today in all sorts of.
• 11:32
  Areas of life, government in all sorts.
• 11:34
  Of areas of life as well. It's it's.
• 11:36
  Did you not see that interview with, what's his name, Rooney
• 11:39
  Sunak. Rishi Sunak and that fella?
• 11:43
  Yeah, I had a bit of a weed crush on him once.
• 11:46
  Now he's, you know, destroyed the entire country.
• 11:49
  It's kind of taking the edge off him a little bit.
• 11:51
  It's both size, you know, anyway, sorry, where he said,
• 11:56
  oh, yeah. Well, you know, I've, I've got
• 11:59
  middle class friends. I've got lower class friends.
• 12:01
  And then his dad steps in and he goes, oh, sorry, no, I didn't
• 12:04
  mean I've got lower class friends.
• 12:06
  There is definitely a division of power, you know, and how the,
• 12:11
  the, the people on the top tier kind of suck the life out
• 12:16
  because it's certainly happening financially at the moment.
• 12:19
  The, the people in power, they're using politics to get
• 12:23
  very serious. Aren't I to manipulate
• 12:26
  essentially the, the people that don't have any money are being
• 12:29
  taxed to buggery and that money is feeding into the system which
• 12:34
  is being manipulated. So it's funnelled towards people
• 12:37
  that have got a ton of money. And because this is Doctor Who,
• 12:39
  they're literally being sucked. Well, that's Doctor Who will
• 12:43
  often take a, you know, a normal analogy and turn it into
• 12:48
  something science fictiony. And is this Ian Stewart Black's
• 12:51
  first script? Yeah.
• 12:53
  Do you know what? I think Ian Stewart Black is not
• 12:56
  really interested. I mean, I don't think Doctor Who
• 12:57
  had a formula at this point anyway.
• 13:00
  But he's Doctor Who's singularly unique, aren't they?
• 13:03
  But this is a bit different to your standard Doctor Who.
• 13:07
  I think macro terror is as well. It's very.
• 13:09
  Refreshing, and it's a very short period of time.
• 13:12
  It's this period of time because he goes straight to the war
• 13:13
  machines. He writes that as well, and he
• 13:16
  writes Macro Terror. He's very.
• 13:20
  I think maybe, well, War machines is great.
• 13:22
  War Machines is a how much? I don't know how much of that is
• 13:25
  produce is the producer sort of input into what later becomes
• 13:30
  Earth based stories, but hey, Mark.
• 13:32
  ID your fab gear Fab gear what should we?
• 13:36
  Start and then we'll carry on talking.
• 13:38
  Yeah, yeah. OK, of course.
• 13:39
  Yeah. OK.
• 13:39
  When we get going, listeners. We are obviously this is
• 13:42
  missing. We're not watching it.
• 13:44
  Well, we're watching. The loose cannon reconstruction
• 13:46
  are. Amazing.
• 13:47
  Thank you very much. If you need.
• 13:49
  I mean we'll and I thoroughly recommend a loose cannon
• 13:51
  reconstruction you can find online until obviously on the
• 13:55
  DVDs and Blu rays they are bringing out more official
• 13:58
  reconstructions, but until they until they come out go to loose
• 14:02
  cannons. So I know some.
• 14:03
  People that prefer the loose cannon reconstructions over the
• 14:05
  animations, you know I mean. It depends if you want the
• 14:08
  actual OK I'm going to press play now if you want 321 it.
• 14:12
  Depends if you want I mean. I can see the appeal of the
• 14:15
  telesnaps and actually once you get into them, because I was
• 14:17
  doing this for my podcast, we went through all the telesnaps
• 14:20
  for the ones you. Know and.
• 14:21
  I hadn't. And you know, stuff like the
• 14:23
  Savages, again, not publicized particularly well, maybe were
• 14:26
  they in Doctor Magazine or they wouldn't.
• 14:27
  Maybe some point? No, don't really.
• 14:29
  They were they, they had a number of issues where they had
• 14:32
  them in the middle and they had the archive in the middle
• 14:35
  between them, but I don't know if they did.
• 14:36
  All of the stories, and I think there's a lot of focus on the
• 14:39
  Patrick Troughton missing episode.
• 14:41
  Oh my. God moving pictures, so we are.
• 14:44
  Well, what have we just had? We've just had the gunfighters,
• 14:47
  haven't we? We've just.
• 14:48
  Had the gunfighters and the doctors saying we're in a
• 14:50
  fabulous age of peace and prosperity.
• 14:52
  So clearly he's been here before.
• 14:54
  Well. He it, it's this sort of
• 14:57
  general, what's the word? How do you describe it?
• 15:00
  Just to sort of. No.
• 15:03
  A lot of it's happened in a lot in the 60s, especially with
• 15:05
  William Hartnell, where he'll just save his big sweeping
• 15:09
  statement to get us into the next story we've landed in, or
• 15:12
  what is it, 10th Planet, the coldest place on Earth, so.
• 15:15
  And then it's like. Next week we're in the future of
• 15:18
  General. He's literally just making it up
• 15:20
  somewhere. We've been dragged down.
• 15:23
  Dragged down to what? Oh, can I just say?
• 15:26
  Right, Because we're going to talk a lot about Dodo in this.
• 15:29
  Yeah. Man, Oh, man.
• 15:30
  They write her as being a bit precocious in this, don't they?
• 15:34
  But I. Think that's great if her
• 15:35
  character and get because we don't have these stories or
• 15:39
  people don't preach what we see in the gunfighters and the Ark
• 15:42
  we know we're from, don't we? But we don't really get to see.
• 15:46
  Her Tory. I think.
• 15:47
  It's. A great story for her, I say.
• 15:49
  I'm the. Strongest she toy maker is.
• 15:50
  Not a good she gets to. Be super no strongest, doesn't
• 15:54
  she? And she isn't.
• 15:55
  Just, oh, another sort of fill in companion around this time
• 15:58
  that goes goes in and out and doesn't last very long.
• 16:01
  She's I think she's braver than Vicky.
• 16:05
  She's Vicky's pretty. Brave, you know?
• 16:08
  Yeah, I know. But.
• 16:08
  She but I think Dodo in this investigating a bit later on,
• 16:11
  she does a bit more than that. Well, I love the.
• 16:14
  Fact that she goes into this, you know, loving civilized
• 16:17
  society and she ain't impressed from the off.
• 16:20
  No, she's going, I'm going to investigate that every dark
• 16:23
  corridor until I find out where your CD secrets are.
• 16:26
  She's wiser. And she's a bit.
• 16:27
  I think she's better than Polly in some ways.
• 16:29
  What you. Think is better than Vicky and
• 16:31
  Polly other? Elements to her where she would
• 16:35
  investigate and she would stand up and say something.
• 16:38
  I don't, I think Vicky wouldn't talk back to people how Dodo
• 16:42
  does. I don't think Polly would be as
• 16:44
  interested or really care. Or when they're walking around
• 16:47
  the city or something, I think, you know, Polly or Victoria or
• 16:51
  someone would just wouldn't really care.
• 16:52
  But Dodo's like, hang on, there's something going on here
• 16:55
  and investigates me. What?
• 16:56
  I think that's a bit more time. Can I just bring a semblance of
• 16:59
  sanity to what you're talking about for a second?
• 17:02
  Because she can be a bit overbearing though, can't she?
• 17:06
  She's not really like in the art when she's all like, you know,
• 17:09
  are you hiding something, you know?
• 17:11
  I like that about, she just said to Stephen.
• 17:13
  A minute ago, you know she goes. You don't have to do everything,
• 17:16
  he says. You know, you know he's not your
• 17:18
  master, but it's. Written like that and it's the
• 17:21
  way. That it's the way she plays it
• 17:23
  on she's written with. Stephen is a bit like, oh,
• 17:26
  Stephen's like, oh dodo, come on, like a child in.
• 17:28
  Episode 2, I'm telling you now, he goes about four times.
• 17:32
  Look, if there's trouble to be found, Dodo would have found it.
• 17:35
  So like, he's got to a point now where he's like, oh, this bloody
• 17:38
  woman, she goes off, you know, doing her own thing, being a bit
• 17:42
  of a rebel. And here we are on location.
• 17:46
  Unusual. Unusual for this time, this
• 17:48
  amount. Allocation work because
• 17:50
  actually. Even with Stephen, What did they
• 17:52
  have any in Dulles master plan? No, I don't know.
• 17:54
  I don't think you had. Hardly.
• 17:56
  Any and dodo's only in the war machines.
• 17:58
  At the beginning we just had a. Fucking western, right?
• 18:00
  And they didn't go outside for the Western.
• 18:03
  They could have. Shot this in this quarry for the
• 18:06
  western whereas now we've got which technically could have
• 18:10
  been studio couldn't it I think. I think just the bits with the
• 18:15
  Titus and the quarry with the running is and these close-ups
• 18:18
  with the savages, savages, savages, this I can imagine.
• 18:21
  It's all very, very small, tiny corner of a studio, lots of
• 18:25
  shrubbery. Do you remember?
• 18:26
  When Peter Purvis was watching Season 14 with Sophie Aldridge
• 18:31
  in the Blu-ray sets and he's very upset because there's all
• 18:35
  the location work and he goes fine and we're not location
• 18:37
  once. And that's in my last story.
• 18:39
  Yes, these very strange helmets that the cars are wearing and
• 18:42
  you've got these. Cars, they look a bit like robo
• 18:44
  mentomy. They do do.
• 18:45
  They. And it's not dirty.
• 18:47
  Faces I don't. Think so?
• 18:49
  And are they all supposed to be made-up?
• 18:50
  Is that what you're what? I don't know.
• 18:53
  No, they haven't. Here in these pictures I don't
• 18:56
  know. May I just say yeah, showing no
• 19:00
  signs that he's on his last legs.
• 19:02
  William Hartnell Dr. And this is fucking supply in this because
• 19:08
  again. This is another misconception
• 19:09
  about this end of the end of season 3.
• 19:12
  Always a bit tired. What have they started writing
• 19:14
  him out? When did it happen?
• 19:15
  Sort of around Darks monster plan he started disappearing
• 19:17
  more and more. Well, in episode 11 of Dallas,
• 19:21
  master planning is not in it at all and I.
• 19:23
  Think that's where it's starting, isn't it?
• 19:24
  And obviously it's Celestial toy Maker.
• 19:27
  He's really they're. Thinking.
• 19:28
  How can we get rid of him? Gunfighter's not so much and
• 19:31
  then here, but we need. We need to talk about this here,
• 19:34
  because when he's put in that machine in Episode 2 and then
• 19:39
  Frederick Yeager is effectively playing the Doctor in Episode 3,
• 19:44
  that absolutely could have been a way to remove William.
• 19:47
  They're obviously. Looking for ways Yeah I.
• 19:50
  Think it's quite interesting. Isn't it?
• 19:51
  I noticed in this, he's got some really good, strong scenes in
• 19:54
  here, but he's not in it as much.
• 19:55
  A lot is given to Dodo and Stephen.
• 19:58
  The doctor meets the elders and has all of that.
• 20:00
  He's got a few, few scenes here and there, a few strong scenes
• 20:04
  and everybody else takes the story.
• 20:06
  Maybe that's. The best which I.
• 20:07
  Think is a great for him and he could have carried.
• 20:09
  Maybe he could have carried on a bit better if he could have done
• 20:11
  just a little bit like this. He walks in.
• 20:13
  I'm the doctor. I'm going to sit and have coffee
• 20:15
  with the elders. While.
• 20:16
  Dodo and Steven go and have the adventure for us and they can
• 20:20
  run in as if it's like he's just left the kids to babysit.
• 20:24
  Doctor. Doctor Stevens gone missing.
• 20:26
  Yeah. Oh, I'm sure she's alright.
• 20:28
  I'm sitting. Here I'm.
• 20:30
  Just hanging here with my friends.
• 20:31
  Yeah, she'll be back. And then Dodo can come in.
• 20:34
  Doctor, Doctor Stevens done this.
• 20:36
  Oh, just it's fine. But thank.
• 20:37
  Me. No one does moral indignation
• 20:39
  better than William Hart. And in episode 2 when he gets
• 20:41
  his rag on, it's hilarious. Look at this location I.
• 20:44
  Think this location stuff would be so.
• 20:47
  Oh, he's got. He's got a camera right at the
• 20:49
  top of the Ridge and he's shooting down and he's put the
• 20:51
  TARDIS down into the bottom of the Ridge.
• 20:54
  Spears. Coming down on them, I'd love to
• 20:56
  see Dodo and Stephen on film running.
• 20:58
  Actually I. Can't believe we're examining
• 20:59
  telly steps right now. This is what our last context
• 21:02
  but. It actually.
• 21:03
  Looks like it's late in the day and the sun is going down so
• 21:07
  I've been it looked quite stylish.
• 21:10
  I'm not sure. Oh, isn't this?
• 21:13
  Hilarious, right? All of them know about the
• 21:16
  Doctor, Stephen and Dodo, don't they?
• 21:18
  He says. We've been following your
• 21:19
  adventures, you know, that's good.
• 21:21
  They're like Doctor Who fans. Yeah.
• 21:24
  We're following your adventures on.
• 21:26
  I particularly like the one with the butterfly people.
• 21:29
  OK. Like the effect of smearing
• 21:32
  battalene on the moon. But how have they been watching?
• 21:37
  Oh, it's this heavy they've. Got a timer space visualiser
• 21:40
  only. Yeah, if only.
• 21:42
  And here we are in the sort of city of the Elders a bit.
• 21:46
  Oh. Don't you think it's hilarious
• 21:47
  how they did this back in the 60s?
• 21:48
  A few drapes on the walls, everyone's wearing sort of
• 21:51
  flowing robes, and the costume they put William Hartner in,
• 21:55
  well, basically they give the. Doctor an honorary degree, don't
• 21:58
  they? Yeah, they say.
• 21:59
  Yeah, we'd like to offer you a job.
• 22:00
  Yeah, they. Do that in real life.
• 22:01
  Don't they? Didn't they?
• 22:02
  We don't get one. Catherine Tate get one.
• 22:04
  You get honorary degrees from places.
• 22:06
  Don't. You.
• 22:06
  Oh do. You.
• 22:08
  They just get it, don't they? It becomes like.
• 22:09
  An honorary elder? Yeah, basically that's.
• 22:11
  What they do in real life, Yeah, but are they?
• 22:13
  Just trying to keep him close because they know he's not going
• 22:15
  to, like they've if they've watched his adventures then they
• 22:18
  must know he's not the sort of fella that's going to accept all
• 22:22
  this sort of life sucking that's going on.
• 22:24
  It's highlighting. Their advanced nature, that
• 22:26
  they've got the means to be able to track and know these things,
• 22:31
  that's. True, that's one of the
• 22:32
  publicity shots there with Hartnell tugging it is lapels
• 22:35
  whilst Frederick Yeager's Jano looks on a bit worried.
• 22:39
  And then what are the two children called?
• 22:42
  Flower and Avon. Flower and.
• 22:44
  Avon. Avon, Jimmy from the Invasion.
• 22:47
  Avon. Yeah.
• 22:48
  Have you betrayed me? Yeah.
• 22:53
  What about Professor Plaskin? How?
• 22:57
  But then. This is very much the 1st
• 23:00
  Doctor's character as well. I like this that they're
• 23:03
  praising him there, inflating his ego and you can imagine
• 23:07
  partner will. Be there literally because you
• 23:09
  remember in the gunfighters when he goes in and no one, no one's
• 23:12
  impressed with him at all, are they?
• 23:13
  Like really? This is most unprofessional.
• 23:16
  He's forgotten. Stephen and Dodo, he's just got
• 23:18
  caught up in all of this. Do you know what he.
• 23:20
  Says thank you young lady for making me look so grand.
• 23:25
  I can see the third looking. Funny. 3rd Doctor loving this
• 23:29
  Oh. Yeah, of course.
• 23:31
  Hobnobbing it with the Roy the second.
• 23:33
  Doctor would not. He would just not be doing this.
• 23:35
  It's so this is so first Doctor character.
• 23:38
  Don't sit down with the Elders. And look.
• 23:39
  Like he's going off to a gay disco in that outfit.
• 23:42
  Look at him. Oh, and.
• 23:43
  Stephen gets a dagger and Doda gets a lovely mirror, hand
• 23:46
  mirror. They've got gifts for everybody,
• 23:48
  which is really nice. Sexist Stephen gets a weapon and
• 23:52
  Dodo gets something to preen herself in.
• 23:54
  She's lovely. It's got.
• 23:55
  Diamonds on it. Oh yeah.
• 23:57
  Look, she's loving it. So oh, I.
• 24:00
  See, so they're giving them all, give some positions, they're
• 24:02
  trying to get them on side, aren't they?
• 24:04
  Yeah. And she's.
• 24:05
  Looking in the mirror going, oh, this is, this is a much older
• 24:08
  actress. I thought I was supposed to be
• 24:12
  15. Stephen.
• 24:15
  No, you've always been. That old Jackie?
• 24:17
  Honestly, did you ever read a story about Toby Hajo's scene?
• 24:21
  Jackie laying on a train? Yes, I.
• 24:22
  Heard I have heard that podcast yes yeah.
• 24:25
  Oh, it's, you know, he. Did he will pass her about 10
• 24:27
  times before he would have said hello.
• 24:29
  What you would have done, you're so shy, you would have got to
• 24:33
  say I would have done it's. A shame that she didn't do more.
• 24:37
  It's a shame that all we really have is a record of her time.
• 24:41
  Is that myth makers DVD? Into it, that's all we got and
• 24:45
  we are in terms of. Interviewing, it's that terrible
• 24:48
  myth makers. I know it was the 90s where they
• 24:51
  did all these stupid effects. I think it's Nicholas Riggs
• 24:54
  interviewing her, asking the most ridiculous questions.
• 24:56
  And I love the myth Michael's stuff.
• 24:58
  It was keeping the flame alive through the wilderness years.
• 25:00
  But they made some terrible choices it made in those things.
• 25:04
  Oh, he just. Comes out of the special
• 25:06
  aspects. It's like.
• 25:07
  Just sit down and just have a chat with her.
• 25:09
  That's all we want. We don't want any of this stuff.
• 25:11
  It's that. You know, and they can't.
• 25:13
  I mean, we're great. Fans on the Colin Bakers going
• 25:15
  around. Yeah.
• 25:16
  And they keep getting beamed off into different parts of a
• 25:18
  forest. And I'm like, what's happening?
• 25:20
  I mean, I hope. That didn't put her off fan
• 25:22
  things for her. She did.
• 25:23
  The She's the old thing. Do you?
• 25:24
  Think that was it? It would have been.
• 25:25
  Nice just to have one commentary or something.
• 25:27
  And actually she doesn't owe anyone anything.
• 25:29
  She doesn't have to do anything. It was a job a long time ago.
• 25:33
  She doesn't really. If she doesn't care, she doesn't
• 25:35
  care or she doesn't want to do it or feel like she wants to do
• 25:37
  it. That's you think.
• 25:38
  I'm just saying it's. Just a It's a shame because I
• 25:40
  would have loved especially this time because of the like we were
• 25:44
  saying, this is a bit more of an unknown time you.
• 25:48
  Know with all these misses. And she's got a, a big sort of a
• 25:51
  part of that and it would be great just to know a bit more.
• 25:55
  But if she doesn't remember it, fair enough.
• 25:56
  Fine, do you think? That because she didn't do any
• 26:00
  appearances like that, that there's sort of whole sort of
• 26:03
  mythos built around the lack of interviews.
• 26:06
  Because some people like terroristics and things like
• 26:08
  that. They're like, interviews are 10.
• 26:09
  Well, there's certain. Parts of Doctor Who like The Who
• 26:11
  else is the 70s? Who else is?
• 26:13
  There it was, Jackie Lane, well around this.
• 26:15
  Time. Well, there was.
• 26:15
  Janet Fielding for a while, wasn't it for a while.
• 26:18
  I. Mean, I know Adrian Hill did a
• 26:20
  Doctor Who magazine interview, but there's not too much about
• 26:23
  stuff like Jacqueline Hill. There is that she did like 1
• 26:28
  convention where she's interviewed.
• 26:29
  Well, she died. Yes, I.
• 26:31
  Know. She was about to.
• 26:32
  Start going to convention 90s I. Know, but it's just a shame that
• 26:36
  there isn't more footage, you know, a sit down interview with
• 26:40
  her or myth makers with her and it's just those and that's what
• 26:43
  fascinates me about these sort of parts of Doctor Who, which is
• 26:47
  you feel like a bit of an archaeologist.
• 26:48
  You want to know a little bit more, but you just can't it's
• 26:50
  just out of reason. That's what's so.
• 26:51
  Enticing about these missing episodes.
• 26:53
  That's what's part of it. It's like uncovering the
• 26:55
  unknowable. Yeah.
• 26:56
  Do you know what I'm going to tell you a shocking fact about?
• 27:00
  I'm ready. There is more complete stories
• 27:03
  with Dodo than there is with Polly and Ben.
• 27:08
  There's not one complete story with Polly and Ben.
• 27:11
  And you can watch the whole of the Gunfighters and you can
• 27:13
  watch the whole of the Ark. We're so.
• 27:14
  Lucky to have the war machines because if we didn't have that
• 27:17
  as well. Oh yeah.
• 27:17
  Sorry, there's one complete story if we didn't.
• 27:19
  Have that and there was an even bigger section there that would
• 27:24
  be even hang on a minute. There's 48910 dodo episodes out
• 27:28
  there. What a treat.
• 27:30
  What a treat. But I'd love to.
• 27:32
  Seriously though, yeah, do you? Do you like Dodo?
• 27:36
  Do you think Dodo is an effective companion?
• 27:38
  I do. I think she's a bit more
• 27:40
  interesting than some of the companions around.
• 27:42
  She hasn't got much. Of a back story though she don't
• 27:44
  know much about her it doesn't matter, she just.
• 27:46
  I she just gets into the story and I love the way, you know, in
• 27:49
  the Gunfighters where she's having a go at, what's his name,
• 27:52
  Doc Holiday. She's a go at the Monoid in the
• 27:54
  Ark unless you take. It back she's a go at the
• 27:57
  savages. Here.
• 27:58
  She's like, you know, this equipment, this equipment cost a
• 28:01
  packet. I'll smash it in.
• 28:03
  She's great. You wouldn't get some of the
• 28:05
  other shit. It was.
• 28:05
  Like having Jackie Lady there for a second I would love.
• 28:07
  JoJo all the way through Dance master Plan.
• 28:09
  Do you remember the bit at? The end of At the end of this,
• 28:13
  where the doctor goes. You know, my dear, there's
• 28:15
  something lovely about destroying something that's
• 28:17
  evil. And then she just goes, yes, I
• 28:20
  start smashing the boys apart. She's.
• 28:23
  A fucking addict. She is OK, but I'm going to
• 28:26
  again imagine her. I'm going to again bring some
• 28:28
  normality to this because I think you're mad.
• 28:32
  Because I feel like they do write her as a child a lot of
• 28:34
  the time, and she's playing by somebody who's middle-aged.
• 28:38
  She's not. Middle-aged.
• 28:39
  It's a bit like. Sophie Aldred in the 80s I.
• 28:42
  Don't I know? OK, she's supposed to be a bit
• 28:44
  younger in the character, but she's not like massively old
• 28:47
  here. She.
• 28:49
  I think she's probably in her 30s.
• 28:51
  She's not in. Her 30s, she's.
• 28:53
  Away. She's in her 30s she looks like.
• 28:54
  Caroline Ford in five. Doctors.
• 28:58
  She's. Not she's well, everybody.
• 29:02
  Could you write in and tell us how old Jackie Lane was in
• 29:05
  Savages please? I don't really think of her age.
• 29:08
  But I. Feel like she's written like a
• 29:09
  12 year old sometimes, like in Celestial Toy Maker, where she's
• 29:13
  going, she's going, hey, it's all lovely Stephen.
• 29:17
  It's not lovely anymore. That's script.
• 29:19
  Editor's fault for letting that pass through, I think.
• 29:22
  OK, more. Of an important question is
• 29:24
  Jackie Lane a good actress because I think with.
• 29:27
  The material she's given, yeah, I think.
• 29:29
  She can sync some lines, so some lines that are well written,
• 29:33
  although I don't think always, but I do think she can overplay
• 29:36
  lines and you know, her accent views from I don't.
• 29:39
  Mind all four. Corners of the globe I don't.
• 29:42
  Know that at all so you're. Pro dodo?
• 29:44
  Absolutely. And what?
• 29:45
  About her getting a STD OK. That is a bit of an urban myth,
• 29:49
  isn't it? Urban myth.
• 29:51
  An urban. It happens.
• 29:52
  In the world a bit more. Yeah, there.
• 29:53
  Is that? But I think there's a, it's an
• 29:55
  alien STD thing, I think. She has sex with.
• 29:59
  Her, I think she does have. Sex, but I don't think it's as
• 30:02
  what we we think it is, but it's a shame.
• 30:05
  It is. It is a shame.
• 30:06
  And that's so 90s that's so I don't imagine. 80 story William
• 30:10
  Hartner in it or someone having sex.
• 30:13
  Oh, not exactly exactly. What's wrong with Daniel?
• 30:15
  Armani writing those books. Well, you just, I don't know,
• 30:20
  it's the 90s, that's all I can say.
• 30:23
  I mean, she does, you know, when she goes back to contemporary
• 30:25
  Earth, she's straight down the Inferno disco, wouldn't you get?
• 30:29
  Her. Rocks off.
• 30:31
  Or maybe she's just on the boogie, I'm not sure.
• 30:34
  Oh, look at the Doctor. He's loving it.
• 30:36
  But the Doctor's. Very much out of this, isn't he?
• 30:38
  He's he's sitting there having these scenes between him and J
• 30:41
  go, JJ no J no J go keep saying J go it's.
• 30:45
  J No, my dear J no. Yeah, but.
• 30:48
  What we're finding out is about this society.
• 30:51
  So you get in the side that the doctors getting, getting and.
• 30:54
  Then it's coming. Back I love.
• 30:56
  How it cuts back and you see what's happening to Melina and
• 30:58
  that's. A very effective way of doing
• 31:00
  it. Brilliant way.
• 31:01
  Yeah, it works perfectly. And in that you've got Stephen
• 31:05
  and Dodo, and it's a seed being planted a little bit here that
• 31:08
  Stephen's like, wow, this is a great place.
• 31:10
  And Dodo. 'S suspicious and dodo but.
• 31:12
  Stephen is very much not. You said when Stephen started.
• 31:17
  He. Would be.
• 31:18
  The one his character would be the one that was questioning a
• 31:21
  lot of things. He seems to be watered down a
• 31:23
  little bit here. Oh, I.
• 31:24
  Think that's just it. How is Trebek's right in him,
• 31:27
  though? She looks out the window,
• 31:28
  doesn't she? And sees the savage being pulled
• 31:30
  along the Nina Nina. You know what?
• 31:36
  They've used stills of old Jimmy from the invasion, haven't they?
• 31:40
  They. Have did you say the?
• 31:41
  Actress was the woman who played nearest.
• 31:43
  Wife. Poppy.
• 31:45
  I think so. I don't know.
• 31:47
  Papaya. Something like that, yeah.
• 31:49
  I think so. She's great in the Romans.
• 31:52
  Well, she's pretty good in this. Do you know I know what you're
• 31:54
  saying, right? In these telly snaps, even in
• 31:56
  the studio, Christopher Barry is doing long shots and high angle
• 32:00
  shots to shoot the sets a bit more interestingly and that the
• 32:05
  lighting is really good as well. And the sets, I think this might
• 32:08
  have had a bit of money thrown at it, you know?
• 32:11
  It's funny how you if we if it was discovered, it might be
• 32:14
  revaluated. For this one, but would it?
• 32:16
  Be for better or for worse or you never really know.
• 32:19
  Like, you know, like you have to fear enemy in the world worse
• 32:22
  than. Being forgotten about
• 32:23
  altogether, I know. I know you just, you get a
• 32:26
  certain amount for the teddy stamps, but then you you don't
• 32:29
  know it. The whole feel of it could be
• 32:30
  completely different when you actually watch it.
• 32:32
  I've got a. Feeling if we could see this,
• 32:34
  the direction, the incidental music which I want to talk
• 32:38
  about, and William Hartnell pertinent scenes.
• 32:42
  And in fact. You're right, and as a Dodo
• 32:44
  story I think this would be reevaluated as something pretty
• 32:47
  good. It's a bit funny.
• 32:49
  The only thing I noticed in here is where the Stephen and Dodo
• 32:53
  have been shown around this complex.
• 32:55
  It's only the two characters. There doesn't seem to be any
• 32:57
  extras or background artists or anything to keep make it a
• 32:59
  society does feel very empty one also.
• 33:03
  As well as like you show them around and they show them a
• 33:05
  corridor. Yeah, you don't.
• 33:06
  See. I don't know.
• 33:07
  You don't really see much, but I suppose the you're on the
• 33:10
  location you've got this. Excuse me, can you say take me
• 33:14
  to the The Elders version of the Inferno nightclub?
• 33:16
  They. Could be walking through and you
• 33:17
  could have 100 silent extras walking around in the background
• 33:21
  doing all sorts of things that we just don't get.
• 33:22
  No on audio or tennis snap. Sarcoses.
• 33:24
  They just seem to be out of shock.
• 33:26
  And they just happened. Well, you didn't press snap at
• 33:28
  that point. Do you think it was?
• 33:33
  Automatic or he just was like, oh this looks interesting Snap
• 33:35
  I. Don't know they could be.
• 33:36
  Like really interesting moments, but he pressed snap and he
• 33:39
  missed it. This.
• 33:41
  Life sucking device. Oh yeah, has the most intriguing
• 33:45
  sound effects, you know. This is very accurate.
• 33:51
  Renditioning of their life. Oh no, I just didn't.
• 33:54
  Sucking noises, Can you believe? Oh.
• 33:59
  Dear, Oh dear. I like this scientist guy who
• 34:01
  keeps going, you know, you put me beyond schedule all the time.
• 34:04
  You know, keep coming bulging in here.
• 34:07
  Wow. This There's an Earth female on
• 34:10
  the loose. You know, wow, that's.
• 34:13
  Brilliant. That's a Karen.
• 34:17
  So they're bringing Nina in for sucking.
• 34:20
  Life suck, yeah. Yeah.
• 34:23
  Do you know what you've got sucking and vibrators in this
• 34:25
  one, isn't it? It's also what is his reacting
• 34:27
  vibrator. I don't know.
• 34:29
  He's, he's well, he was trying to work out what year they were
• 34:32
  in, weren't they? So maybe the vibrations?
• 34:33
  Of that are I. Don't know what I called it.
• 34:38
  And you know. What's the funniest bit?
• 34:40
  It's where you don't need to vibrate at the board.
• 34:42
  He goes to Stephen Ear. Take this away.
• 34:44
  I don't need this anymore. Take it back to the TARDIS.
• 34:46
  Oh. We're coming up to the end of
• 34:48
  Part 1 now. Yeah, look.
• 34:49
  At the lighting down this corridor, this.
• 34:51
  Corridor. They've made it.
• 34:52
  Really. It's simple.
• 34:53
  Do you know what it? Is it looks like enormous
• 34:55
  Venetian blinds? Well, yeah.
• 34:57
  Like solar panel type things, isn't it?
• 34:58
  Yeah. But Dodo goes wandering along.
• 35:02
  Is going off, you see? That's what I want to see.
• 35:05
  I want to see more what? Christopher Barry does is he has
• 35:07
  her close to the camera with the corridor stretching away from
• 35:11
  her so it looks really visually interesting.
• 35:14
  I think he's his first story was the Daleks.
• 35:16
  Christopher Barry, he does those.
• 35:18
  Corridors and the Daleks are great.
• 35:20
  He's done the. Rescue.
• 35:21
  He's done the Romans, so he's done a few stories at this
• 35:23
  point. I think he's got to a point
• 35:25
  where he can absolutely make this stuff look really good.
• 35:30
  Frodo snooping about. But you know, it's really sad
• 35:33
  because this is her last complete story.
• 35:36
  Next story. She's gone, didn't she?
• 35:38
  Exactly. Yeah, maybe.
• 35:40
  Yeah. She's just sort of coming into
• 35:42
  her own, I think. She needed a bit of time to get
• 35:44
  through it. She didn't.
• 35:46
  The material she was given wasn't great.
• 35:49
  That's. The problem?
• 35:50
  No and. This season 3 is so
• 35:53
  inconsistent. You know, what do we start with
• 35:55
  Galaxy 4 and we end up with this?
• 35:57
  The savages. Think of all those changes we've
• 36:00
  gone through, what you ever seen?
• 36:01
  Everything. Think about the changes of.
• 36:03
  Tone in the season? Exactly.
• 36:04
  The whole right through the myth.
• 36:05
  Makers to the Daleks Master plan to the Massacre to.
• 36:09
  Celestial toy Maker and the gunfighters when you did.
• 36:11
  This with Sarah Chu. She must have been very
• 36:13
  confused. I.
• 36:14
  Know, I know, but it's it's sort of exciting as well at the same
• 36:17
  time. But they have gone through a
• 36:19
  lot, haven't they? It's a.
• 36:20
  Tough one season for it because it's my personal favorite
• 36:23
  William Hartle season because I do really like the shifting
• 36:26
  tones. Yeah.
• 36:27
  But it's tough because it's the one with the least amount of
• 36:29
  material you can watch. Yeah, I find that really odd
• 36:33
  that they managed to salvage nearly all of season 1 and 2, I
• 36:36
  think it was. Selling, I mean, this is very
• 36:38
  not even any not accurate, but was it those early ones sold
• 36:42
  more and by the time it got to season 3, people weren't
• 36:43
  interested. So it was sold as much, Yeah.
• 36:45
  It could be or something. Like that.
• 36:47
  But yeah, it is odd. Could you do me a favour?
• 36:49
  For a second, unless someone. 'S got this in their basement.
• 36:51
  Because listen to the end of this episode.
• 36:54
  You're ready. Hang on.
• 36:58
  Violin it. Is, isn't it?
• 37:00
  It's all string instruments. It's got.
• 37:02
  Its own sound this story do. You know what, right.
• 37:07
  I've got to be honest with you. Yeah.
• 37:09
  Oh my God. Don't, don't know.
• 37:13
  Do you know? What?
• 37:14
  I'd love it if every time I walked into a room that music
• 37:17
  plays. Damn.
• 37:18
  Damn, it's great. So this is only a.
• 37:19
  One off composer that we don't have.
• 37:21
  Any other Jones, something like that?
• 37:23
  But it's definitely stands out so much.
• 37:26
  I mean, I'm going to shock everyone now.
• 37:27
  I'm not a big fan of Dudley Simpson.
• 37:30
  I'm sorry, why? So he just.
• 37:32
  It's just someone playing the clarinet the old time most of
• 37:34
  the time. Isn't it by the?
• 37:36
  Time he gets to the 70. Oh, by the time he gets to the
• 37:38
  like horns and I'm on, I'm like, good, he's off.
• 37:42
  I'm sorry. I do like it.
• 37:43
  When the when the Radiophonic workshop came in and started
• 37:47
  doing music in season 18, I see. Yeah, well, then that gets a bit
• 37:50
  tired. It starts sounding.
• 37:51
  Like Zelda every week, Yeah. I don't know.
• 37:54
  I'm not a big no, I I prefer sort of one off composers that
• 37:57
  does something a bit different. We're just.
• 37:59
  One step away from it being but. It.
• 38:05
  Is I thought the music was excellent in this, like you're
• 38:09
  right, very, very different from what we normally get.
• 38:11
  Although mind you, last week it was so fill up your.
• 38:15
  Glasses. That's something different, I
• 38:17
  mean. That's at least that's a one off
• 38:19
  different thing. Yeah, I don't remember.
• 38:21
  There being any music in the war machines?
• 38:23
  Well, that. Was that was that?
• 38:30
  Was the machine noise the worst? Impression of anything you've
• 38:33
  ever done? No, there was that symbol.
• 38:36
  The what what match match eens episode What what 1 that was a.
• 38:49
  Doctor. We're not.
• 38:51
  Doing the war proceeds. I'm sorry.
• 38:54
  OK, what? Right.
• 38:55
  I thought we're going to have nothing to talk about.
• 38:56
  The savages. We've gone 10 minutes.
• 38:58
  Overlook, we're 35 minutes in. We're there to go watch episode
• 39:01
  2. OK, well, see us out then.
• 39:05
  Stephen, what's up? Hamster with a plump pen knife
• 39:43
  for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 39:49
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 39:52
  Commentary Podcast. I'm Mark.
• 39:56
  And I'm Joe. And this is the Savages episode
• 40:00
  2. Here I want to ask you
• 40:04
  something, right? How on earth would you go about
• 40:08
  if you was Sidney Newman sitting William Hartnell down and
• 40:13
  telling him he's got to leave the show?
• 40:16
  Because this conversation was not going to go down easily, was
• 40:18
  it it? Must have crossed his mind,
• 40:22
  surely, or he'd probably. Get a bit grumpy being written
• 40:25
  out every time or do you think? He was just, I'm the style of
• 40:28
  the show, you can't touch me. So I'm going to have all these
• 40:30
  arguments. I mean that scene in Adventure
• 40:33
  Space and time. Which one in?
• 40:36
  Where he sat down and the one you.
• 40:39
  The one you. Just began the conversation
• 40:41
  well. Oh yeah.
• 40:43
  That one. No, No, but he says, because
• 40:46
  apparently Hartnell was famously quoted as saying Patrick Troun's
• 40:49
  the only other person that could play this role.
• 40:51
  Yeah, but. That's a bit later on after that
• 40:52
  conversation's happened, doesn't it?
• 40:54
  And they've said we've got this person.
• 40:56
  What do you. Yeah.
• 40:57
  I mean, oh, it's, it must have been horrible, but.
• 41:00
  Do you think he knew? Do you think he knew he knew his
• 41:02
  cars were up? Because I'm wondering if that
• 41:04
  conversation with Heather Hartnell genuinely happens.
• 41:09
  Oh. She much, I mean, she well in
• 41:11
  that docudrama, she talks very slamber about it.
• 41:14
  I mean, I don't think that's a bit too early.
• 41:17
  I don't. Know though, saying that his
• 41:19
  memory's going a bit. You can see that in season 2.
• 41:22
  Yeah, but. You.
• 41:24
  But watching the savages here, listening to the savages here,
• 41:28
  you don't get an inkling of that at all, do you?
• 41:31
  Was that an? Admission there that you
• 41:32
  actually have all the Doctor Who episodes.
• 41:34
  No, not episodes. You've got down in the cellar.
• 41:37
  No way. If I had them, everyone, they'd
• 41:39
  be out there for everyone. I'm not one of those people that
• 41:42
  holds them or doesn't care about missing episodes.
• 41:44
  All these magical collectors that have so many cans that they
• 41:48
  can't they can't be bothered to share their Doctor Who missing
• 41:51
  episodes with people. Don't get me started.
• 41:53
  Can I ask you? Another question there.
• 41:55
  Well, would it change our situation here if I in fact
• 41:57
  confessed to you that I did have every single episode of Doctor
• 42:01
  Who up in the attic? Well, I'd say.
• 42:03
  How long have you had them for and why haven't you shared them
• 42:06
  with everybody else? Well, because.
• 42:07
  I like watching them myself. Well, I know I feel very angry.
• 42:11
  With you, I forced you. To watch the reconstruction of
• 42:13
  the savages, the real thing. I'll tell you what, the location
• 42:17
  works Fantastic. Yeah.
• 42:19
  That's very good. Do you know some?
• 42:20
  People so I'm going totally off William Harlow now.
• 42:23
  Some people have vivid memories of watching these early ones,
• 42:26
  you know. Ohh be.
• 42:27
  Wonderful, isn't it, you know. I think Gary Russell was saying
• 42:29
  to me the other week there's a little name drop there that he
• 42:33
  remembers watching the sort of mid trout and stories.
• 42:37
  That's where he came in. Obviously, Ian Levine has strong
• 42:39
  memories of watching the Darlist Master Plan, and it feels like
• 42:42
  he's been on a slippery slope ever since.
• 42:45
  He wrote notes though, didn't he?
• 42:46
  He's very clever at the time. He wrote notes after he watched
• 42:49
  him. Now he's writing tweets.
• 42:51
  Block capitals. Can you?
• 42:52
  Remember watching something like 20 years ago?
• 42:57
  Surely your memory slightly changed?
• 42:59
  A few things maybe? Oh, for.
• 43:01
  Sure, yeah, 'cause I remember Battlefield being fucking
• 43:03
  chilling at nine years old and I'll rewatch it.
• 43:06
  That dreadful special effect going around semester.
• 43:08
  McCoy is throwing herself all about the set.
• 43:10
  It would be. Wonderful to watch these things
• 43:12
  though. I.
• 43:13
  Know well OK so my second question is OK do now obviously
• 43:18
  this wasn't deliberate but do you think the first Octo being
• 43:22
  aged in the end of those master plan his battle of wits against
• 43:27
  the celestial toy maker his life sucking in this episode and what
• 43:36
  he goes through in the 10th planet.
• 43:37
  Do you think that that you could sort of weave a narrative
• 43:40
  together that his body took a battering in late Series 3,
• 43:44
  really serious 4, and that's what contributed to his
• 43:47
  regeneration? Because I think there's a case
• 43:49
  for that, I mean. That is a yeah.
• 43:51
  Looking back, you can fill in those blanks as terroristics.
• 43:54
  Would say fans but. Imagine, though, if they had
• 43:58
  that kind of thought, if they thought like, you know, like ATV
• 44:01
  drama now knew who there's a story arc if towards maybe
• 44:06
  halfway through season 3, like you say, this arc comes in where
• 44:11
  he does battle and it's it's in the narrative.
• 44:14
  Oh, this has happened to me. I'm I'm weakening and you're and
• 44:17
  you can see it and they wove it into the narrative like that.
• 44:21
  Imagine if they did do that, like there was, I don't know,
• 44:24
  you know, almost like a watcher type thing throughout or
• 44:27
  something like that. Or, or just in the script,
• 44:30
  there's little hints about his where he's from and maybe Susan.
• 44:35
  I mean, we did get that and the massacre, don't we?
• 44:37
  Has that nice speech. Looking back, do you know what
• 44:38
  the problem? Is so, but yeah.
• 44:40
  Imagine if they did that and then Dodo, oh, I don't know,
• 44:42
  Dodo and Steven are there throughout that arc and well,
• 44:45
  that's. Like piercing into what I'm
• 44:47
  going to say to you, but everyone changes.
• 44:49
  So much the problem. Is is Dalek's master plan?
• 44:52
  Yeah, so let's do a toilet maker and the art, They're all
• 44:59
  different sets of regulars. There's not one person who can
• 45:01
  tie all together and go, well, it went through this at the end
• 45:03
  of Dialects Master plan. It went through this.
• 45:05
  So you can't really make reference.
• 45:07
  You can't put it all together as a picture because it's been this
• 45:09
  revolving sort of door of companions coming in and out.
• 45:13
  So Polly and Ben can't go. Well, do you remember the end of
• 45:15
  Dialects Master Plan? He was battered to death.
• 45:17
  Bother. Maybe this has all been
• 45:18
  contributing to Stephen If. Stephen could have been there
• 45:21
  right through and. Said.
• 45:23
  This has happened you? And he could be like, no, this
• 45:25
  has a big impact. Only we need to go and find, I
• 45:28
  don't know, X planet where I can recuperate adventure.
• 45:31
  There something happens. Toy maker.
• 45:34
  Oh, this has depleted my energy. Do you realize what?
• 45:37
  We're doing we're, we're putting a new series spin on classic
• 45:40
  Doctor Who. But do you know what?
• 45:42
  Here's all part of the fun, isn't it?
• 45:44
  Oh, absolutely. Of like knitting together things
• 45:47
  that were actually completely accidental.
• 45:50
  But it all does make a lot of sense, I think.
• 45:51
  You're right, all those different things were let's see
• 45:54
  what we can do. And if one of them was very
• 45:56
  successful or something happened to William Harton or big
• 45:59
  argument happened, they could be like, right now you're now we've
• 46:04
  changed it. We're quite lucky that this
• 46:06
  whole regeneration thing happened.
• 46:07
  Imagine if it was a celestial toy maker and that's how it
• 46:10
  happened. At every.
• 46:12
  Time celestial toy. Maker has to pop up or or it
• 46:15
  just wouldn't happen. It would just stop with Patrick.
• 46:17
  Every single. Time run out of every.
• 46:19
  Single. Time Michael Goff appears.
• 46:21
  The doctor's like, oh, fuck it, yeah.
• 46:24
  I'm going to change. Again.
• 46:26
  Anyway, let's. Start Episode 2 because we've
• 46:28
  skipped ahead a bit, yes? Lots of extra material on these
• 46:31
  episodes as we've. Said least can reconstruction
• 46:33
  episode 2 now. Yeah, here we go.
• 46:36
  And we left Dodo screaming down the corridor.
• 46:39
  Oh, can. I just say ask you another
• 46:40
  question, please. Yeah, I'm full of them tonight.
• 46:42
  Oh, you are. Have some brain food.
• 46:44
  That's why. The last bit of pork.
• 46:46
  Oh, sorry. Lauren Cornelius.
• 46:50
  Oh, yes, the new dodo. Absolutely.
• 46:52
  In Big Finish. She's great, isn't she?
• 46:55
  Yeah. She's proper.
• 46:56
  Spunky, she's. Great, yeah, but I feel.
• 47:00
  Like she's being written with a bit more smarts than the usual
• 47:03
  dodo, no? Normal Dodo is smart, as we are
• 47:06
  seeing right now in the Savages. She's well, she will in a minute
• 47:10
  in this scene. She's been attacked by a
• 47:12
  primitive man at the moment, but.
• 47:14
  But is she? Supposed to be in middle class
• 47:16
  because she goes. Oh, he was like a dirty savage,
• 47:19
  doesn't she? I think she's supposed to be a
• 47:22
  bit middle class. Can we all just have a moment,
• 47:25
  everybody, to congratulate Joe on a very minimal vibrator talk
• 47:31
  last episode? It could have taken over.
• 47:33
  It could have been a big moment, but actually we've skimmed that
• 47:36
  bit quite sensibly, didn't we? So well done everybody.
• 47:40
  Well, do you know? Do you know?
• 47:41
  Why? Why?
• 47:42
  Because I had my reacting vibrator going on the old time
• 47:45
  while I was doing the commentary.
• 47:49
  Excuse me? Don't you be coming on this
• 47:51
  thing and making assertions about me.
• 47:54
  All right, well, OK, so Dodo. This is a bit of a recap here
• 47:59
  she's going down. This fabulous Venetian blind
• 48:01
  corridor again. And she's wanted.
• 48:03
  Off. Nobody's really missed her at
• 48:04
  the moment. We've still got Nanina being
• 48:08
  zapped. Who?
• 48:10
  Nanina? Now go and do it, Nanina.
• 48:14
  Not. That way, do you know what?
• 48:16
  Though she might be an insolent primitive savage, but she's
• 48:20
  still got fabulous hair. I love this.
• 48:22
  Set from what we can see here, these sort of gloves.
• 48:25
  What, this laboratory thing. Oh well, that's not the most
• 48:28
  flattering thing, rubber. Skirt.
• 48:32
  This was the 60s, folks remember.
• 48:34
  But. Dojo can hear what's going on
• 48:36
  with Nanina and he's sort of investigating and he's gonna
• 48:38
  walk in and just Was this the. Episode where you had the steal
• 48:41
  the telesnap of when they. Take her out, yeah.
• 48:44
  Honestly, her Her trousers are riding rough.
• 48:47
  What's her? Name John Cora.
• 48:50
  Oh, I'm taking a snap. Quick, John.
• 48:53
  Napura, you people, one of them for me.
• 48:55
  Dirty out. Man.
• 48:59
  Or he's like. God filth bag we're.
• 49:00
  Going through all these like chills.
• 49:02
  Other. Teller snaps that he's got well.
• 49:05
  I think he. Batted both ways 'cause he's the
• 49:06
  one who took the picture of being with his kit off, yeah.
• 49:09
  Oh my God. Maybe he's got a whole extra set
• 49:11
  of boom, so he had lovely. Nipples, honestly.
• 49:13
  Michael Grace. Oh my God, they're not John.
• 49:15
  Korra. Kira, I don't know.
• 49:17
  What his nipples were like. I just know what?
• 49:21
  Yeah, right. Do you know what?
• 49:22
  Right. Yeah.
• 49:23
  Once Upon a time I met this bloke.
• 49:24
  Yeah. Honestly, he had nipples.
• 49:27
  Yeah, but the size of teacups were massive.
• 49:31
  I went, oh, you should get no scene to the last time I dined
• 49:34
  them out. Sorry.
• 49:37
  Oh, right. Now, look, this is what I like
• 49:38
  what they do with the Tele snap reconstructions is they had
• 49:42
  still pictures, but they had a bit of movement.
• 49:45
  So for the sequences of the Doctor being sucked, they've got
• 49:50
  like bubbling vats going on, haven't they?
• 49:52
  But do you know what I mean? It draws your eye a bit.
• 49:54
  It does, yeah. It does help.
• 49:56
  It's nicer though when they've got just like 5 seconds of
• 49:59
  moving footage. You know, just like actually at
• 50:01
  the end of the story, I think when Stephen says goodbye,
• 50:04
  somebody. Did their little sini cat look?
• 50:05
  They've cut out Dodo from the war machines where she's been
• 50:08
  hypnotised. I don't think Jackie Lane looked
• 50:10
  that dense when she was walking down the.
• 50:13
  Door. Oh, this, this scientist fella?
• 50:16
  Yeah, of the elders. He just wants to get on with his
• 50:20
  work. He keeps getting interrupted by
• 50:21
  dodos all the bloody. Is Dodo coming in and saying
• 50:24
  what's going on in the laboratory?
• 50:27
  Which I really. Like she's getting her own
• 50:29
  screen time and meanwhile the doctor is still sitting with no.
• 50:33
  But with the. Elders.
• 50:34
  No, no, no. Wait, wait.
• 50:35
  He has cottoned on. He knows things aren't as simple
• 50:39
  as they're telling him, like they're going, oh, yeah, you
• 50:42
  know, we get all these life energies and stuff and we're,
• 50:44
  you know, it allows us to paint fabulous pictures and and do
• 50:48
  wonderful science and things. But the second he goes back to
• 50:51
  the TARDIS and he sees a primitive sock dry, he says, you
• 50:56
  know, I knew there was something evil about them.
• 50:58
  So he's playing him along. He's a very clever at this.
• 51:01
  Point you think? Or is it as soon as he sees, I
• 51:04
  think he knows. Look, look at that.
• 51:05
  Still, he's looking very thoughtful.
• 51:10
  Do you know what? Can I confess something about
• 51:11
  William Harnell? Yeah, when the wind is in the
• 51:14
  right direction. Yeah, I'm talking about.
• 51:18
  I am. Not about to say I fancy William
• 51:20
  Harnell. Honest to God, will you just let
• 51:23
  me have a moment of being seriously critical?
• 51:26
  No, when the wind is in the right direction.
• 51:29
  Yeah. I'm talking the Romans.
• 51:32
  I'm talking the Aztecs. Yeah, I'm talking Dallas, Mas
• 51:35
  Plan Massacre. I think he's my favorite doctor.
• 51:39
  Oh. Yeah, that's not Yeah, of
• 51:41
  course. Like he's.
• 51:42
  The governor, and he's the original, absolutely.
• 51:45
  And I do wonder, you know, the sort of authority that he has.
• 51:49
  Yeah. I'm not sure any of the doctors
• 51:51
  have commanded that sort of authority.
• 51:52
  Not that sort of. I can't no why he does in.
• 51:55
  This the way that when he goes has a.
• 51:57
  Go and says disgusting. Experiments and he's.
• 52:00
  Like we must stop them. I'm going to stop you.
• 52:02
  You know he's going to even like Tom Baker is scaliest doesn't
• 52:05
  have that power when. Hartnell is angry and he bares
• 52:09
  his teeth. Yeah, and his eyes are blazing.
• 52:11
  I won't be on. The Oh my God be shitting.
• 52:14
  Myself, if he came at me to give me a jolly good smack bottom,
• 52:19
  I'll be out there for it pretty quick.
• 52:22
  No, no, no. But I mean my point is this is
• 52:24
  even when like he is on the decline, he's still very
• 52:29
  impressive thing in. This Have you seen him in?
• 52:31
  Other things. Well, he's I watched him in,
• 52:35
  I've seen him in Brighton Rock and I watched the beginning of
• 52:40
  this sport in life. What?
• 52:41
  Was that? Film you said you saw him in
• 52:43
  that was full of full of all the gay men.
• 52:47
  What was that? About this sport.
• 52:48
  In Life is about a rugby player and basically it's about his
• 52:55
  sporting life, his career on the pitch.
• 52:58
  So there was. Lots of shots for people's
• 52:59
  possible life. Why can't I give them trust you
• 53:02
  to watch it on that? I just, it just happened.
• 53:04
  I didn't know that was going to happen.
• 53:06
  But you said you were quite shocked that Hartner was in
• 53:07
  something That was that homoerotic, didn't you?
• 53:11
  I don't think he was for the gays, you know all.
• 53:14
  The blacks or. Women.
• 53:15
  Or actually do you know what? I actually think he was quite
• 53:17
  progressive when it came to women.
• 53:20
  What do you mean because? Well, you know, in those early
• 53:23
  stories, Barbara's got a very strong, commanding role, and
• 53:28
  sometimes she bests him. But, yeah, but I think at the
• 53:30
  time there were men that were incredibly patronising to female
• 53:34
  actresses. They wouldn't, they wouldn't let
• 53:36
  women go at him like Barbara does in Barbara does in Edge of
• 53:39
  Destruction. Yeah, but.
• 53:41
  There's there's character in this real life.
• 53:44
  But by all accounts as well, he could be very warm with people
• 53:47
  he likes. I think so, yeah, absolutely.
• 53:49
  I think it's with people he didn't like around.
• 53:52
  This time the general, the sort of shorthand in fan thing is,
• 53:56
  oh, he was grumpy, it was difficult to work with all this
• 53:59
  kind of stuff. That's rubbish.
• 54:00
  Every person around this time that said he was difficult to
• 54:02
  work with, there's somebody who was like, actually was all
• 54:04
  right. So I think again, go back 10
• 54:07
  years, you had a bad day at work and everybody's going to
• 54:10
  remember that one bad day or afternoon you add, but all the.
• 54:13
  Regulars say lovely about it. I.
• 54:15
  Think, but then day-to-day, yeah.
• 54:17
  And you, you go. Into work and you have a good so
• 54:19
  I think it's I don't think it's I do feel like it's exaggerated
• 54:23
  a little bear in. Mind he was story.
• 54:25
  He was being. Sick, wasn't it?
• 54:26
  And and and, you know, like it was a form of dementia that he
• 54:30
  had and you can get testy and frustrated, but I think he
• 54:34
  wanted. It to be, Yeah, it could be
• 54:36
  exactly he. Wanted the work to be good.
• 54:38
  Get annoyed at work or whatever people things aren't going well
• 54:42
  or you wanted to be. As.
• 54:44
  Good as possible and you get you're not.
• 54:46
  I didn't get annoyed. You don't get like Winnie Martin
• 54:48
  or I don't Bear. My teeth, no.
• 54:50
  But you, you would do that, wouldn't you?
• 54:53
  I think everybody does that. If it's not, you want something,
• 54:55
  you want to do a good job. But apparently.
• 54:57
  As well Somebody. Is just, you know, somebody
• 54:59
  isn't doing what they're all messing around and there's time
• 55:02
  and there's pressure, incredible pressure to get these things
• 55:05
  done. There is a.
• 55:06
  Story I've got. I'll never go everyone about.
• 55:10
  Really horny. There is a story about Carol Ann
• 55:13
  Ford and William Hartnell having a massive Barney.
• 55:15
  And then Hartnell realised how strong he'd been and he left a
• 55:20
  hamper at all Flowers or something in a dressing room
• 55:24
  with a little note saying I'm sorry, so and and more.
• 55:27
  Brian talks about him. Very funny.
• 55:29
  So does Peter Purvis. Sure, Jackie Lane got on with
• 55:32
  him as well. He hated them.
• 55:33
  Going though, didn't he? I think they were like allies
• 55:36
  the the people that played the regulars and he hated them going
• 55:39
  but I. Don't think it's as bad as
• 55:41
  things are said. I mean someone like, you know,
• 55:43
  by the time you get to Tentative Planet and Annika Wills is
• 55:45
  saying terrible things about him.
• 55:47
  Really. And Annika Wills.
• 55:48
  Says terrible things about, you know, but actually.
• 55:51
  If you were having a bad day and Annika Wills waltzed in being
• 55:54
  I'm everything, I'm it, you are going to get annoyed, aren't
• 55:57
  you? Especially.
• 55:58
  When you know you're kind of on your way out, she's like.
• 56:00
  Oh, I'm the new young thing or whatever.
• 56:01
  We're coming in and there's William Martin being like
• 56:04
  another one, you know, like. Really.
• 56:07
  You know another. One can you?
• 56:08
  Mention that though. And his.
• 56:10
  Bosses aren't being nice to him and stuff.
• 56:12
  I mean, you get that feeling that actually you don't blame
• 56:16
  him really. I mean, I drop down and have a
• 56:19
  sleep for episode 3. If I think when it wasn't all
• 56:22
  that reverend, I'd be like peace and out for this episode.
• 56:24
  Guy take over, but sort of. Like to sum all this up, that
• 56:28
  William Harnall, I think like he's the sort of actor where
• 56:33
  like, like he's a very good actor, but where he fails a
• 56:37
  little bit because he's sick. But wait.
• 56:39
  But that's the excitement. Because when he really knocks it
• 56:42
  out of the park, like at the end of the massacre or the end of
• 56:46
  the Dallas Mass plan or in this, when he's fucking furious in a
• 56:49
  minute, it's like, yes, this is some serious powerful acting.
• 56:55
  It's just then I'm just trying. To think about, obviously we've
• 56:59
  got the war machines. Smugglers tend to plan it when
• 57:04
  10th planet he's. Not at his best.
• 57:06
  Do we get? Anything in the smugglers where
• 57:08
  it's his? Last grade, yeah.
• 57:10
  No, he gets those moments, doesn't he, with the pirate?
• 57:12
  On the ship. Jamaica that he's falling
• 57:15
  really, really funny here. He's sort of facing up against
• 57:18
  the. Elders here, and we've got
• 57:19
  Frederick Yeager here. Who is?
• 57:21
  Professor Sorenson from Planet of Evil and Professor Marius.
• 57:25
  From invisible. Enemy.
• 57:26
  And creator of Canine What? No, that was Bob Baker.
• 57:30
  And Dave Martin. In the story, Oh yes, of course.
• 57:33
  I hope he's. Toilet trained.
• 57:35
  Oh, imagine if they're K9 here. Dodo and K9 perfect.
• 57:39
  Combination and Stephen as well. I'm not sure we could handle
• 57:43
  the. Saccharine nature of K9 to this
• 57:45
  team here How? Perfect, would that be I?
• 57:48
  I do wish they'd had a bit more time.
• 57:50
  Do you know? And a bit more sort of a stable
• 57:52
  period. But yeah, mind you, I really
• 57:55
  like the First Doctor. Polly and Ben as well, you know,
• 57:57
  don't you don't need a couple, but I think they're really fun.
• 58:01
  Equals him, Governor. What governor?
• 58:03
  I mean, you can see that they respect him and.
• 58:05
  They, I don't know, it's a different fit.
• 58:06
  I like this Stephen and Dodo. I prefer that over bed and
• 58:09
  party. Oh my God, This is that bit
• 58:10
  where he goes. Yeah, I'm.
• 58:11
  Done with this vibrator? Yeah, take it back to the
• 58:13
  TARDIS. TARDIS.
• 58:15
  Someone does that to you, don't they?
• 58:19
  Oh, do. And there's something.
• 58:20
  Here it's you get a bit of Terry.
• 58:22
  Nation of Space. Medicine here he's like dodo go
• 58:24
  to the cupboard get this pill that's D35 bring it back for me
• 58:28
  and then that will be that will cure the the savage here yeah
• 58:31
  what's that all about what's the fun that's.
• 58:33
  The funny way to dispensing? Space Medicine.
• 58:35
  And then Stephen and Dodo were like, oh, that seems to do.
• 58:38
  The trick? Give him another one.
• 58:39
  Don't worry about it being an overdose or anything, just give
• 58:42
  him another one. Why if he's got such?
• 58:44
  Sophisticated. Medicine.
• 58:45
  Why didn't he cure our STD? Because she hasn't had.
• 58:48
  Well, she had it yet. No, she.
• 58:49
  Hasn't had it yet. No, but she gets it.
• 58:52
  Yeah, but she. Didn't know, I don't think.
• 58:54
  Well, he's. Been to the.
• 58:54
  Future Surely they'd killed more by.
• 58:56
  Then and the treatment she gets in who killed Kennedy as well.
• 58:59
  Oh she gets blown off in the air since 90s she.
• 59:01
  Gets her head blown off. It's appalling.
• 59:04
  It is. Appalling, but.
• 59:05
  You know what was nice? Do you remember when she passed
• 59:08
  from space? Everyone was fucking in the new.
• 59:11
  Adventures one for. God's sakes, everyone was.
• 59:15
  At it. Do you remember when Jackie Lane
• 59:16
  passed and there was that outpouring of love for Dodo and
• 59:21
  Jackie Lane? I really like that We were at a
• 59:23
  convention, a phantom convention, where they knew
• 59:27
  Jackie Lane, didn't they? Quite well.
• 59:29
  And they did a lovely montage of clips and interviews of her.
• 59:32
  Yeah. It's really it's a shame that
• 59:35
  she wasn't. I hope she.
• 59:38
  Knew how much people liked her. I appreciate that thing, that
• 59:43
  story about Toby Haddock. Meeting her on the train, yeah,
• 59:46
  leads me to police. She was always happy to talk
• 59:48
  about, but she didn't ever seek. He said that she was very self
• 59:51
  efficient and she had no desire for fame.
• 59:53
  Do any acting after this. She was her agent.
• 59:55
  Agent. Yeah, who?
• 59:56
  Wasn't there doctor? Who people?
• 59:57
  She was an agent. Was she really what?
• 1:00:00
  At the time not no. Later on, I think.
• 1:00:03
  Oh. That was amazing.
• 1:00:06
  Oh, here we go. William Hart was getting angry.
• 1:00:08
  Can we turn it out later when he gets really cross?
• 1:00:10
  No, no, not that way. When he talks to go these guards
• 1:00:12
  here as well, like exhaust, he goes on a bit of a journey,
• 1:00:17
  doesn't he? Because he starts off trying to
• 1:00:19
  kill Nanina and he ends up trying to fuck her.
• 1:00:21
  I mean, it's quite a journey. Know this story in terms of.
• 1:00:25
  You know, have you watched this or have you?
• 1:00:26
  Listened to this a lot. No, see, I don't think people
• 1:00:28
  have it. I I like it with this one.
• 1:00:30
  Dallas master plan. I've heard a million times I
• 1:00:32
  quoted to you back to front. This one I've barely heard.
• 1:00:35
  And yet every time I watch it or listen to it, I'm I walk away
• 1:00:39
  impressed. I've got a docoho reviews.
• 1:00:41
  Yes, I am docoho. Well, I gave it 8 out of 10.
• 1:00:44
  Yeah, so I hadn't really until I did.
• 1:00:46
  It for to watch who and actually sat down on what.
• 1:00:49
  I'd never seen the telly snaps for this before, maybe heard the
• 1:00:52
  soundtrack a little bit and not really got all the way through,
• 1:00:54
  but do you sit down and concentrate and go through?
• 1:00:57
  This. And I would choose this again to
• 1:00:59
  watch now and enjoy it. I was really shocked.
• 1:01:01
  I'm always shocked and I was. What you choose.
• 1:01:03
  And you know how. Yeah.
• 1:01:04
  I mean, but like, and now I know the story a bit.
• 1:01:08
  It's a good story. Do you not remember we were
• 1:01:10
  walking into town and you said I want to do the.
• 1:01:11
  Savages. And I just stopped in my tracks.
• 1:01:13
  Like, really? It's a good story.
• 1:01:16
  It is, yeah. It.
• 1:01:17
  Is. Do you think the sort of
• 1:01:19
  morality play works well in Doctor Who?
• 1:01:22
  Yeah, like like the the sophisticated society bleeding
• 1:01:27
  off. I think it works better in
• 1:01:29
  lower. Classes because then sometimes
• 1:01:31
  you get things. Like I don't.
• 1:01:32
  Know I don't know like we said earlier it's very prescient
• 1:01:34
  it's. Very.
• 1:01:35
  It's apparent now, yeah, we haven't all got beers like.
• 1:01:39
  That and going. Around in, you know, furs and
• 1:01:42
  skins and things, but the very nature of the upper class is
• 1:01:47
  sucking the life out of the lower classes.
• 1:01:51
  But it's that sort of arrogance as.
• 1:01:52
  Well, that you know. We deserve it.
• 1:01:55
  They play it really well in this but.
• 1:01:59
  OK, I'm going to talk about. Rusty Davis for a second there
• 1:02:02
  because he says that Doctor Who should never really go off to
• 1:02:05
  planet Zorc, and this is literally planet Zorc, isn't it?
• 1:02:09
  You know, a lot of people we don't know.
• 1:02:10
  It could really be Earth in the. Future or an Earth colony or
• 1:02:15
  something. That would have been quite nice,
• 1:02:17
  wouldn't it? But I creatures we're.
• 1:02:20
  Not Oh my God, imagine if the end of episode 2.
• 1:02:22
  Was, you know, they go down onto the quarry beach and there's
• 1:02:26
  Statue of Liberty sticking out of it.
• 1:02:28
  No, it was a fall along. Yeah, this isn't so planet.
• 1:02:32
  So this is mid SOG. Mid level SOG Yeah, it's.
• 1:02:36
  Not. Totally.
• 1:02:37
  Out which is what I mean. Something in the 70s.
• 1:02:40
  In the SOG ometer for example. Meg.
• 1:02:43
  Loss or something. Oh, that is that is SOG.
• 1:02:46
  That is you know, and they could be all ZOG here.
• 1:02:49
  You know they could be Meg, your SOG, they could all be wearing
• 1:02:51
  their blonde. Wigs and stuff, but they're not.
• 1:02:53
  It's still recognisable. Oh my God, do you know what the
• 1:02:54
  Zoggy is Soggy is, don't you? Time Lash?
• 1:02:57
  Exactly. It's Time Lash and Megalos are.
• 1:02:59
  In that category. Oh, we've been over soggy in.
• 1:03:01
  That season more. Acceptable, I think.
• 1:03:04
  Why? Is the word ZOG so funny?
• 1:03:07
  Do you remember Zig and Zag from the big breasts?
• 1:03:11
  I thought. I've always got to sing one kids
• 1:03:16
  frame. Every time we're on this thing,
• 1:03:19
  Zig. And here again, we don't have
• 1:03:21
  much. William Hartnell.
• 1:03:22
  He's gone off, he's been taken back to the the thing.
• 1:03:25
  So actually they are still writing sparingly, aren't they?
• 1:03:28
  But Peter Purvis has been taking the lead.
• 1:03:30
  In this Series A lot. I wonder if there was any?
• 1:03:33
  Sort of consideration for. Someone.
• 1:03:35
  Like him to take over, take over or I.
• 1:03:38
  Doubt it. No.
• 1:03:40
  Well, it's interesting because this is, I don't know if I
• 1:03:43
  dropped this in the first episode.
• 1:03:44
  I meant to this is the first story that was properly
• 1:03:47
  commissioned by Jerry Davis. So he he did the Celestial
• 1:03:53
  Tourmaker and the gunfires, but those weren't they were done by
• 1:03:56
  Tosh and Wiles and they just brought them to the screen.
• 1:04:00
  Jerry Davis did, but this is the first actual story he
• 1:04:03
  commissioned and is seeing off Stephen.
• 1:04:05
  The next story they commissioned is seeing off Dodo.
• 1:04:08
  They wanted to change the show. They didn't.
• 1:04:10
  They didn't want to go to War machines format Unity.
• 1:04:14
  Format, format. Well, mine sort of scientific
• 1:04:17
  base format. Isn't it based under siege?
• 1:04:19
  Oh my God, turn out bit. Here we go.
• 1:04:22
  This is the doctor in he's. Having a go, it's great.
• 1:04:27
  It's most unscientific. What standing?
• 1:04:30
  In the way of. Human.
• 1:04:34
  Progress. How dare you call your How dare
• 1:04:38
  you call this human progress? Actors going up against each
• 1:04:41
  other here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:43
  Absolutely. Brilliant, but can I say
• 1:04:44
  something? Yeah, there's something.
• 1:04:46
  That classic Doctor Who is absolutely famous for is it
• 1:04:52
  doesn't always have the budget to do massive set pieces and
• 1:04:54
  things like that, but you get 2 fucking strong actors against
• 1:04:57
  each other, Gabriel Wolf and Tom Baker.
• 1:04:59
  Can you give me some more examples?
• 1:05:02
  Sheila Hancock and Sylvester McCoy, who did Connor Baker go
• 1:05:07
  up against that was really, really strong?
• 1:05:09
  Well, Terry Malloy in Revelation of Daleks.
• 1:05:12
  Michael Jason. Yeah, Tony Baker and Michael
• 1:05:14
  Jason, like, that's where the drama is, isn't it?
• 1:05:18
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's very yeah.
• 1:05:20
  And this in terms of set and everything, we're not back on,
• 1:05:23
  we're not on location anymore. We are in a very small studio
• 1:05:26
  with trees all around scrubland. Scrubland.
• 1:05:29
  Look, you know. What's so funny?
• 1:05:30
  In a minute. But the doctor goes, No, I don't
• 1:05:33
  wish to see your nauseating experiments.
• 1:05:35
  And then they take you in there. He realises it's his turn next,
• 1:05:38
  and he goes, excuse me, gentlemen, but there's something
• 1:05:40
  you seem to have forgotten about.
• 1:05:42
  I do not submit to your experiments.
• 1:05:47
  It's great. Oh no, can make.
• 1:05:48
  Any line absolutely sing. So the doctor is being.
• 1:05:53
  Taken into the laboratory now, it's a quite quirky idea, isn't
• 1:05:57
  it? And then you've got.
• 1:05:57
  Another actor doing a William Hartnell impression.
• 1:05:59
  Oh, when it gets to that, that is perfect.
• 1:06:01
  He plays it well, but you know, a bowler counts.
• 1:06:03
  I was. Reading on wiki earlier so I
• 1:06:05
  don't know what the veracity of this information is.
• 1:06:08
  Hartnell coached him on every little.
• 1:06:12
  And dear. Boys, you know, but.
• 1:06:16
  What happens then is. This goes from being a morality
• 1:06:19
  player to being like a battle of witch, because the Doctor's
• 1:06:21
  inside his head, didn't he? And he is starting to get the
• 1:06:25
  Doctor's morality and he's starting to say no, this is
• 1:06:28
  wrong. It's so interesting.
• 1:06:30
  I could have done that in time in Ronnie When?
• 1:06:33
  Ronnie was turned into male. Imagine if their personality
• 1:06:36
  started actually. Dressed up, really, she wasn't
• 1:06:40
  sucked, but. You know, for some reason I I
• 1:06:43
  want to give. Up being evil?
• 1:06:44
  Get on. Get on an exercise bike or no,
• 1:06:47
  it just comes around. Again, it's what Sir McCoy did
• 1:06:49
  when he was. Inside that brain.
• 1:06:50
  Wasn't it? Yeah, really.
• 1:06:51
  This is not the time for double entendres, was he says.
• 1:06:56
  Blessed are the pie makers. Because they will make light
• 1:06:58
  piss dream. Oh my God.
• 1:07:01
  Look at how he's tugging his lapels.
• 1:07:03
  That's his signature move, you know.
• 1:07:05
  Oh yeah, A bit like John Pertwee in the face stroke.
• 1:07:09
  Yes, you know, all the. Yeah, the sort of.
• 1:07:11
  Shoulder. What other signature moves are
• 1:07:13
  there? Oh, Collarbaker tickled his.
• 1:07:16
  Little cat. His little pussy on his on his
• 1:07:18
  lapel. He did.
• 1:07:19
  He didn't tickle Perry's pussy. I could see your.
• 1:07:23
  Face, I could see your. Face.
• 1:07:26
  What about Sylvester McCoy? That is Brolly really didn't.
• 1:07:30
  He's a play about that. All sorts and jars and is
• 1:07:33
  everything. It's ours.
• 1:07:38
  He played the spoons on Kate. Amara's chest.
• 1:07:40
  You know, imagine. I'd love to see.
• 1:07:44
  Kate Amarna's. Ronnie up against Kate Amarna.
• 1:07:46
  Kate Amarna up. Against William Marnell here
• 1:07:48
  Imagine. Oh my God.
• 1:07:52
  Mark, there is no screen big. Enough for William Arnell and
• 1:07:55
  Kate O'Mara. Can you imagine?
• 1:07:58
  He'd be like, how dare you, Ronnie?
• 1:08:02
  Why does your William? Arthur.
• 1:08:04
  Sound like. You're John Bowie.
• 1:08:07
  Here we go. So the Doctor's.
• 1:08:07
  Been put into. The machine he got a bit.
• 1:08:09
  Of sweat on his face or snow or something.
• 1:08:11
  I think that's just a dirty tailor snap.
• 1:08:12
  Oh, OK, I think John. Kira's been on that one.
• 1:08:15
  Do you know what? As can I just say one thing as.
• 1:08:17
  Doctor Who fans, right? I mean, I said this a million
• 1:08:20
  times. We sit here scrutinising these
• 1:08:22
  still images. I mean, we must really fucking
• 1:08:25
  love this thing to be doing this.
• 1:08:27
  And even, you know, I know he was being paid to take these.
• 1:08:29
  Tailor snaps and stuff, but how do you choose?
• 1:08:32
  But I think it's I. I don't.
• 1:08:34
  Actually think it was. He just pressed it himself.
• 1:08:39
  I think he just set it up and it just did every like, I don't
• 1:08:41
  know, minute or so. So I think he just did it there
• 1:08:44
  and he was going doing something else.
• 1:08:45
  He probably wasn't even watching himself.
• 1:08:47
  And we're studying all these things and John Corb didn't even
• 1:08:50
  bother. He was like, there's your print
• 1:08:52
  out. Do you think they requested how
• 1:08:54
  many pictures you can have? Because imagine, oh, maybe he
• 1:08:57
  had to set his camera up again. You know, back then, the
• 1:08:59
  technology was a bit slow. You know, I hope cameras go in.
• 1:09:02
  Right. Time for another picture.
• 1:09:04
  Yeah. You know, but imagine if he'd
• 1:09:06
  done like 300 pictures per episode or something.
• 1:09:09
  We'd almost have the whole thing.
• 1:09:10
  He might as well. That's the same man.
• 1:09:12
  He could have got like a video recorder and made an actual
• 1:09:16
  copy. Oh yeah, like John Kira, you
• 1:09:20
  lazy git. But also, weren't they?
• 1:09:22
  Making copies for overseas. By putting up a camera in front
• 1:09:25
  of the TV and just filming it. Yeah.
• 1:09:27
  Well, so sure, I know that was expensive, The footage.
• 1:09:29
  We've got from. This story is Telefilms.
• 1:09:31
  Yeah, someone filming ATV. So why could've you done that?
• 1:09:34
  I don't know. It's all the It's the eternal.
• 1:09:37
  What if about the? Missing episodes, isn't it?
• 1:09:40
  Well, they should be grateful. Oh, absolutely.
• 1:09:42
  You know what's like they've got?
• 1:09:43
  Technology now, right? They can put colour into black
• 1:09:46
  and white. They can put.
• 1:09:47
  They can take the dots out of the black and white.
• 1:09:50
  What have you seen? Manipulate them into colour.
• 1:09:52
  Have you seen where? They do that sort of deep.
• 1:09:54
  Fake where you've got a telly snap and then they make it move
• 1:09:56
  and the mouths move and stuff. They can do something like that.
• 1:09:59
  We won't be. Watching the savages like.
• 1:10:00
  That moving I saw William Martin all puckering his lips up the.
• 1:10:03
  Other way it looked very, very strange.
• 1:10:06
  Oh, it's ended what I've heard. Oh, it's the Doctor's being
• 1:10:09
  sucked. A little bit of a slow episode
• 1:10:10
  there in terms. Of what happened because really
• 1:10:13
  the doctor was captured and put in a thing and they there's AI
• 1:10:16
  mean there's a bit more sort of back history and going on there
• 1:10:20
  but actually in terms of action once Dodo's discovered it the
• 1:10:23
  doctor's tied up it does it has slowed down a little she
• 1:10:26
  discovers it early and then and then we.
• 1:10:28
  Basically really stopped until he confronts.
• 1:10:32
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's still great.
• 1:10:35
  It's still. A good story, and it is a good
• 1:10:37
  story. But episode 3 has a ton of
• 1:10:39
  running around. I think it's the guards come
• 1:10:41
  down the tunnels after them a lot.
• 1:10:43
  It's a really great scenes. You know, it's in the pitch
• 1:10:45
  black with all this torchlight going.
• 1:10:47
  I bet. I bet it looked amazing.
• 1:10:49
  I can't wait to do that. I mean, see that?
• 1:11:28
  A hamster with a blump pen knife for doing quicker.
• 1:11:34
  Hello and welcome. Back Dodo to a hamster with a
• 1:11:38
  blood pen knife, my child, the Doctor Who Commentary podcast
• 1:11:47
  and I am here, me, Stephen Noonan, and I am here today with
• 1:11:51
  my lovely plucky assistant, Miss Dodo Chaplet.
• 1:11:55
  Introduce yourself to Dodo. Sorry.
• 1:11:59
  Oh, I'm so happy to be. Here.
• 1:12:04
  And my child. What would be, what will we be
• 1:12:09
  commentating on today, Doctor? It's the savages.
• 1:12:15
  Welcome back to a Hamster. With a blunt pen knife.
• 1:12:18
  The Doctor Who Commentary podcast Small Cav.
• 1:12:21
  Yet before we continue, nine months have passed between
• 1:12:27
  recording episode 1 and 2 and episodes 3:00 and 4:00.
• 1:12:32
  Because my partner in crime here has been absolutely blame me.
• 1:12:37
  I will blame you. It's been.
• 1:12:38
  Impossible to get. You to record this we did one
• 1:12:41
  and two and then sort of forgot didn't we we've.
• 1:12:43
  Recorded sixties, 70s. 80s finished beaks.
• 1:12:47
  You've been recording 2 Watch who's I've been recording.
• 1:12:50
  Hamsters are all sorts. Yeah, so we might have forgot
• 1:12:53
  what we said. In Part 1 and 2, but carry on.
• 1:12:56
  I know where we were Part 2. The doctor must be We've got
• 1:12:59
  press play on Part 3. That's.
• 1:13:01
  Where we're at, but we left the doctor in.
• 1:13:04
  His. Unconscious state in a glass box
• 1:13:08
  having his conscience sucked off.
• 1:13:10
  Yeah, so all you ever. Wanted in life.
• 1:13:13
  Was to say William Harlow will get sucked off.
• 1:13:15
  However, before we go into Episode 3, I do have a question
• 1:13:20
  for you. OK.
• 1:13:22
  And it's not about William Hartnell, but it is about the
• 1:13:25
  First Doctor. I would like you please to just
• 1:13:29
  give your thoughts. I'm going to name other actors
• 1:13:32
  that have played the First Doctor because in this episode
• 1:13:36
  is the very first person to play the First Doctor Who is not
• 1:13:41
  William Hartnell, Freddie Drake, Frederick Yeager, Frederick Gay.
• 1:13:47
  Yeah, technically. Very technically, so I'm just
• 1:13:49
  going to throw a few names at you and.
• 1:13:51
  You give me a couple of juicy opinions, OK, You're never sure
• 1:13:55
  of those. So let's start with Peter Purvis
• 1:13:58
  from the Command New Chronicles. Oh, very good.
• 1:14:01
  Very. Very good.
• 1:14:03
  He's brilliant in those big finishes and they should should
• 1:14:07
  keep using him. He gets well, it's obviously
• 1:14:12
  worked. With Ian Hartnell.
• 1:14:13
  So closely that he just gets I mean, it's the voice isn't 100%,
• 1:14:18
  is it? But it's just none of them are.
• 1:14:20
  But you believe. It's a well-rounded character.
• 1:14:23
  It's the first Doctor, the character, and it works because
• 1:14:26
  it's first person. Narration.
• 1:14:28
  So it's basically Stevens interpretation of how things are
• 1:14:32
  happening. Because he's telling the story,
• 1:14:34
  it's really a little bit more cheeky.
• 1:14:37
  Version of the 1st Doctor that he plays.
• 1:14:39
  I love it and he's written smart.
• 1:14:41
  He's. Mostly written by Simon Guria.
• 1:14:43
  Yeah. Recently interviewed by the
• 1:14:45
  Spectacular Podcast. Finished Big Yeah.
• 1:14:49
  Okay, so Next up we're going to go across.
• 1:14:51
  To Richard Herndall from The Five Doctors.
• 1:14:54
  I knew it. Nothing like him, really.
• 1:14:56
  Is it nothing like I mean you? Love it though, I mean.
• 1:15:01
  He's. Just like that one he plays.
• 1:15:02
  In Blake 7, which is apparently, yeah, it's Nebrox from Blake
• 1:15:05
  Seven in a suit, basically. There's nothing like him at all.
• 1:15:08
  And I think it would have worked though, if they'd gone with that
• 1:15:12
  original idea that Robert Holmes had about the First Doctor being
• 1:15:15
  a robot, because then you would have got away.
• 1:15:17
  Then it would have been brilliant because we would have
• 1:15:19
  known that it wasn't exactly the 1st Doctor.
• 1:15:21
  I think he, I think he doesn't get the humour of.
• 1:15:23
  The first. Doctor.
• 1:15:24
  But he does. Get the essence of authority,
• 1:15:26
  JNT has said to him. You're playing the first.
• 1:15:28
  Doctor, he's a crotchety old man from what we remember in the
• 1:15:32
  60s. Just be a bit grumpy and shouty
• 1:15:34
  and you've got it. And it's not.
• 1:15:35
  And when Caroline Ford's like, oh, I looked roused.
• 1:15:37
  It was like Bill standing down. I'm like, bullshit.
• 1:15:41
  That's absolute bullshit, Carol. It's nothing like if Richard
• 1:15:45
  Erdel turned around. I would not go.
• 1:15:46
  That's William Hart. You hear that, Carol?
• 1:15:48
  You are full of bullshit. All right, OK, Well.
• 1:15:51
  Although you do love the Five Doctors.
• 1:15:54
  Yes, Like, oh, I do. Yeah, I've got to.
• 1:15:56
  Admit he. Does munch on a.
• 1:15:57
  Pineapple just like. I don't think William Hart will
• 1:15:59
  have munched like. That No, I'm saying you munch on
• 1:16:02
  a pineapple. You can.
• 1:16:03
  I don't munch like I've seen you munching.
• 1:16:06
  All right. OK.
• 1:16:10
  Well, let's. Move on to David Bradley of
• 1:16:14
  Twice Upon a Time and The Power of the Doctor and The Big Finish
• 1:16:20
  I it took a while to get. Used to him.
• 1:16:22
  Once you get used to it, especially on the big finishes
• 1:16:25
  he has, his way of speaking isn't like William Hartnell at
• 1:16:29
  all. The the rhythm of the speech, he
• 1:16:32
  hasn't got it. But again, once you get into
• 1:16:35
  those stories, it's a well-rounded character that he's
• 1:16:37
  playing and you believe he's playing.
• 1:16:38
  The character of the 1st Doctor is not a straight out
• 1:16:41
  impression. It's not just Grumpy, I think
• 1:16:45
  it's very good. It's a reinterpretation.
• 1:16:48
  Yeah, he's not. Playing William Hartnell,
• 1:16:50
  playing the First Doctor. No, like, we're going to move on
• 1:16:53
  Stephen Noonan in a second. That's I think what Stephen
• 1:16:55
  Noonan is trying to do. But I think David Bradley
• 1:16:58
  basically has the essence of the character, but he's doing his
• 1:17:02
  own thing. Rivet.
• 1:17:03
  And actually, some of those stories, may I please just
• 1:17:05
  recommend The Invention of Death, which is an incredible
• 1:17:09
  First Doctor story written by John Dornan.
• 1:17:10
  Yeah. Some really good stories there.
• 1:17:12
  And. Yeah, it took me quite a long
• 1:17:15
  time to actually get him as the first doctor, but you do.
• 1:17:19
  It doesn't work when. Stephen Moffitt is writing for
• 1:17:21
  him in this twice upon a time. Why?
• 1:17:23
  I don't because he makes him so. He makes him sexist, slightly
• 1:17:28
  homophobic and. But is that getting old
• 1:17:32
  fashioned getting the? 1st Doctor and William Hartnell
• 1:17:34
  sort of mixed up. I'm wondering but the. 1st
• 1:17:38
  Doctor was never felt old fashioned William.
• 1:17:40
  Hartnell If William Hartnell was on the set of that Christmas
• 1:17:45
  special in the new series, then that's William Hart not walking
• 1:17:48
  around like that. He would have taken no, no, no,
• 1:17:50
  but he would have taken one look at.
• 1:17:51
  Those lines and gone. I'm not reading this shit,
• 1:17:54
  honestly, he goes. There was a time.
• 1:17:56
  You know I was at the. Peak of of being cut.
• 1:17:59
  What's the word? I'm thinking of up to date
• 1:18:03
  modern. I was walking around.
• 1:18:04
  With a reacting vibrator once you know, I would not be shocked
• 1:18:08
  at two women having a snog. Where Jack Pitt?
• 1:18:10
  Imagine, you know, in adventurous space.
• 1:18:13
  And time where he he does his lines with Heather Hartnell.
• 1:18:16
  They go, I'm in bed. Imagine Heather, Oh, I've got
• 1:18:19
  the new Christmas special that I'm in.
• 1:18:21
  You play the part of Bill and I will be the Dunkster and
• 1:18:24
  watching Heather Hartnell be. Jolly good.
• 1:18:26
  Smack Bottom. Heather Hartnell.
• 1:18:29
  Being like, I'm into girls. Anyway, moving on to Edmund
• 1:18:36
  Warwick. Then from the chase.
• 1:18:39
  Oh well, I cannot. Forgive Edmund Warwick from the
• 1:18:42
  Chase because there was that newspaper clipping with him in
• 1:18:46
  the 90s saying that he didn't like sort of still McCoy he.
• 1:18:52
  Didn't like it? Anymore, he thought it was sort
• 1:18:53
  of a bit. Camp Well, he didn't even watch
• 1:18:56
  the. Chase when he was in it,
• 1:18:57
  obviously no terrible doesn't even look like that.
• 1:19:01
  You know Annika Will said that in the.
• 1:19:02
  Behind the sofa for Battlefield. She thought it was all a bit
• 1:19:05
  camp. But when he's playing that robot
• 1:19:07
  doctor. I mean they couldn't have cost
• 1:19:09
  anyone less like. But he does sound like weird
• 1:19:14
  heart because he's. Stopping his long Yeah, because
• 1:19:16
  he's his lines out of sync, yeah.
• 1:19:18
  And moving on then to my. Favorite pervert Stephen Noonan.
• 1:19:24
  It's funny that's. More mimicry.
• 1:19:26
  That it's more when you listen to those big finishes, he's
• 1:19:29
  literally and in the scripts as well, they've taken actual lines
• 1:19:33
  that the doctor said from the TV show and he's they've plumped it
• 1:19:36
  in and he's mimicking it line for line.
• 1:19:39
  I do think he can. It's a very good.
• 1:19:41
  Impression. Yeah.
• 1:19:45
  I don't know it take that. Again, it's taken a.
• 1:19:47
  Bit more to get used to, but in terms of the precision of
• 1:19:50
  getting the voice, I think he's the best.
• 1:19:54
  The big finish in terms of mimicry, yeah.
• 1:19:57
  To sound. Like I think it comes down to
• 1:19:59
  the sound liking. Rather than good acting, I
• 1:20:01
  think. Sometimes I think it comes down
• 1:20:02
  to the scripts. Yeah, because I think if the
• 1:20:04
  script captures his voice and there's lines in there that are
• 1:20:07
  sort of tailored to William Hartle's line that's in the 60s,
• 1:20:11
  he can capture it perfect. The problem that takes me out of
• 1:20:14
  it though is because we. Know all these lines from all
• 1:20:16
  these shows so well that when he mimics an exact line from the
• 1:20:23
  ones that we know, he just he's like, well, he's just saying a
• 1:20:25
  line from the time meddler. He's just saying a line from
• 1:20:28
  that and it takes you out the story because you're like, oh,
• 1:20:30
  he's just saying it again. He wouldn't, you know.
• 1:20:32
  Well, I think the conclusion that we can draw.
• 1:20:34
  From all of these first doctors is William Hartnell is the
• 1:20:38
  governor. Oh absolutely.
• 1:20:40
  He's the best you know he. And in terms of like somebody
• 1:20:45
  taking a role and owning it. Yeah, I, I'm going to be bold
• 1:20:50
  now. I don't think anybody has done
• 1:20:53
  that with the doctor since I think a lot of people have owned
• 1:20:56
  it, but not to the extent the heart of this.
• 1:20:59
  No, I we can give him that comment.
• 1:21:01
  I. Think that that's the blueprint
• 1:21:03
  of which. All other doctors are sort of
• 1:21:06
  defined by, you know, and a lot of people did look back in his
• 1:21:09
  direction. I think Peter Davison said that,
• 1:21:13
  Colin Baker said that, but they added these sort of slightly
• 1:21:16
  crabby moments because Hartnell could be a bit nasty and they
• 1:21:20
  liked adding bits of that to the character.
• 1:21:22
  Yeah, well, shall we go into the?
• 1:21:24
  Savages, Part 30. Sure, we're 10 minutes into this
• 1:21:26
  episode already as. We, as we said nine months ago,
• 1:21:29
  we were doing. The loose Canon reconstruction.
• 1:21:31
  That's right. So we're about to press play on
• 1:21:33
  that on episode 3 now. Delightful of watching the
• 1:21:36
  cloud. William Hartnell gets.
• 1:21:39
  Sucked. Not by Jack Pitt, but by a
• 1:21:43
  dreadful machine on the planet of the Savages.
• 1:21:45
  Why isn't this planet named? I'm not sure.
• 1:21:49
  What would you call it? Naninos So I think this is a
• 1:21:55
  very doctor. Liked episode as we get towards
• 1:21:58
  the end of in this period, which I think we've mentioned before.
• 1:22:02
  You remember we watched this earlier, right?
• 1:22:03
  There was a lot. Of running around in this
• 1:22:05
  episode this I think we've had a really good first.
• 1:22:08
  Couple of episodes and now the plot needs to slow down a little
• 1:22:11
  bit and I think yeah, I don't think he's around because he's
• 1:22:14
  unconscious here. I don't know if this is a no.
• 1:22:16
  He's in the teddy snaps at the end of the episode.
• 1:22:18
  He's. Down the corridor, getting gas.
• 1:22:19
  He's at the end of the. Beginning at the end, that's it.
• 1:22:23
  He doesn't have and that could have been filmed from the week
• 1:22:25
  before. So he's only turning up at the
• 1:22:27
  end really. You remember how you know
• 1:22:30
  there's all this stuff about how.
• 1:22:31
  They wanted to get rid of William Harnall.
• 1:22:33
  Yeah. And the producers didn't like
• 1:22:35
  him because he was a terrible old pest on the set, shouting at
• 1:22:37
  everybody. I mean, look at this episode.
• 1:22:40
  He's sucked at the beginning, and he's gassed at the end.
• 1:22:42
  Yeah, I know. I mean, they're terrible.
• 1:22:44
  Things we. Do put him through it.
• 1:22:47
  He's. Definitely part time.
• 1:22:48
  At this point he's like, well no, you just had the gunfighters
• 1:22:52
  where he. Was definitely full time, but
• 1:22:55
  then you add science to your toy makeup before that where it was
• 1:22:57
  definitely part time. Not in every week, not all the
• 1:22:59
  time. What's really sad?
• 1:23:01
  Is you know and. We didn't talk about the
• 1:23:03
  succession of stories coming after this, but we lose Stephen
• 1:23:07
  here and then we lose Dodo in the net.
• 1:23:10
  Dodo, Dodo in the next story. And that's the shame, because
• 1:23:14
  you're rather keen on this bunch, aren't you?
• 1:23:17
  Yeah, they should have had longer I think, but.
• 1:23:19
  It gives Stephen and Dodo a lot to do in this story.
• 1:23:23
  At least they do have. Is Peter Parvis still doing the
• 1:23:26
  big finishes? I'm not sure, I've not seen
• 1:23:28
  anything. And now it's hooking there for.
• 1:23:30
  Ages because I think if they threw him in with Noonan.
• 1:23:33
  And what's the new dodo called? Jack.
• 1:23:35
  Yeah. Lauren.
• 1:23:36
  Cornelius. Lauren.
• 1:23:37
  Cornelius who's I must say. Very spunky is the new dodo full
• 1:23:42
  of spunkies? So here.
• 1:23:44
  We've got Stephen and. Dodo with the the.
• 1:23:46
  Savages. That's right, they look a bit
• 1:23:48
  sort of messed. Up I think like those primitives
• 1:23:51
  in state of decay you know everyone's got a fake beard oh
• 1:23:54
  John cure has done a wobbly one there he's.
• 1:23:55
  Got a bit of a blur. He wasn't looking.
• 1:23:59
  Sometimes you get him. Spot on and sometimes.
• 1:24:01
  The button isn't he? He doesn't know what's gonna
• 1:24:03
  come out. I don't know if they're moving,
• 1:24:05
  they're gonna be. Blurred, he's.
• 1:24:06
  Trying to wait till they're standing still.
• 1:24:09
  You're paying for services you think you'd.
• 1:24:11
  Get it right? What's very odd is literally
• 1:24:13
  there's a 2. Second moment in this episode
• 1:24:15
  where it comes to life. That's so interesting, isn't it?
• 1:24:17
  Where do those bits come? From a couple of.
• 1:24:20
  I think there's the myth. Makers, there's this, there's a
• 1:24:22
  few existing ones as well. I think they came from Australia
• 1:24:25
  or New Zealand from what I've heard on on other podcasts and I
• 1:24:30
  sort of from the 80s and I don't think anyone knows where they
• 1:24:34
  have come from. And the person, wherever it came
• 1:24:36
  from, it doesn't want to be known.
• 1:24:37
  Somebody putting a camera. Got their you know their family
• 1:24:39
  cine camera and do. We have all tickets that.
• 1:24:43
  They are they? Yeah.
• 1:24:45
  I know, yeah. But nobody knows exactly where
• 1:24:48
  they came from and when. And there's theories that it
• 1:24:50
  might have been from repeats later on because whoever has
• 1:24:52
  done it, apparently the theory is that they've known what's
• 1:24:55
  coming up. So it's a lot of, it's not like
• 1:24:57
  it's on for the first time and they're just randomly putting it
• 1:24:59
  up. It's scenes where certain sort
• 1:25:02
  of important leaving scene, don't they?
• 1:25:04
  Yeah. So it's like they've.
• 1:25:06
  Seen it before. I mean, what if those silly
• 1:25:10
  things are from ones that are in existence?
• 1:25:14
  Someone's put it up to the. Camp, you know, put.
• 1:25:16
  It up when they've someone's playing they're sounded in those
• 1:25:19
  enticing little motors there's a.
• 1:25:21
  Bit of a weird mystery about where they've come from.
• 1:25:23
  And nobody but there was from there's from existing episodes
• 1:25:26
  as well. So I wonder if they're the ones.
• 1:25:28
  I think there's a savages out there.
• 1:25:30
  You. Know.
• 1:25:30
  Obviously the savages currently. Is not in the BBC archive, but
• 1:25:36
  since the last time you and I spoke about the Savages it has
• 1:25:40
  come to light that there are episodes out there in collectors
• 1:25:43
  hands. It's always been in the no, no,
• 1:25:46
  no. Thing, but several sources are.
• 1:25:47
  Saying certain the. News.
• 1:25:49
  I think it's more certain than it has so.
• 1:25:50
  Why you and me have discussed? This but why do you think people
• 1:25:54
  don't want to give them respect to the archives?
• 1:25:56
  Because it's like having a certain piece of.
• 1:25:59
  Artwork that nobody else has. You know, there's an underground
• 1:26:01
  network of art. Just greed thieves and or or or
• 1:26:04
  the. Act of denying people something,
• 1:26:06
  Yeah, well, it's not special then, isn't it?
• 1:26:07
  If you're a collector or something.
• 1:26:09
  You want like, you know, didn't you say, some Faberge eggs out?
• 1:26:13
  There that are missing. You know, and but you can have
• 1:26:16
  the only one in the whole world, Doctor Who missing episodes,
• 1:26:19
  Faberge eggs. Yeah, I catch a Faberge.
• 1:26:23
  Egg. It's Faberge, egg and savage.
• 1:26:24
  Is a very. Beautiful Faberge egg,
• 1:26:28
  certainly. This reconstruction is where
• 1:26:29
  they've. Got CGI flames in the torch is
• 1:26:32
  really kind of the loose cannons are.
• 1:26:33
  Really good, aren't they? They really put some effort.
• 1:26:36
  I'd like to see this animated. I think this would do very well.
• 1:26:39
  I think it would. I think people would really like
• 1:26:42
  it and I think it would work. It'd be quite easy to do, I
• 1:26:45
  think. Yeah, they are really sticking
• 1:26:47
  with the travel ones. I think it's because they've got
• 1:26:49
  all of the models of the characters, so they haven't got
• 1:26:52
  to do all that extra work. I wonder if a lot of this is.
• 1:26:56
  When they're in the caves, if that's on film, because they did
• 1:27:00
  do stuff at Ealing film, I think because they've got, like you
• 1:27:03
  said, they've got the fight, you know, when there's usual real
• 1:27:06
  flames, that usually means they do a bit of film work, don't
• 1:27:08
  they? So I think a lot of this, they
• 1:27:10
  look really quiet, those caves, don't they?
• 1:27:12
  Yeah, I think that must be on Ealing.
• 1:27:14
  That can't be in the. Studio surely explore any tight
• 1:27:17
  caves. See all this stuff here when
• 1:27:22
  dodo's down the hole and stuff? I think this must all be done
• 1:27:26
  and it. It looks great, doesn't it?
• 1:27:27
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they're, I think on field
• 1:27:29
  they're. Running down the caves and it's
• 1:27:31
  awed by torchlight. There's a very mustache, I
• 1:27:34
  think, the lighting. Would be really great in it.
• 1:27:36
  Oh it's such a shame it doesn't look good from these telesnaps.
• 1:27:39
  It does. It does do.
• 1:27:41
  You know, there's something else that I found very interesting
• 1:27:43
  about this episode, which unusual for Doctor Who to take a
• 1:27:47
  a sort of psychological angle at this point.
• 1:27:50
  And later on in the episode where Jano has the Doctor's life
• 1:27:54
  essence put inside of him, what effectively the Doctor's
• 1:27:57
  personality is put inside of him and he has sequences where he's
• 1:28:02
  fighting with himself, where he's he's got this wretched
• 1:28:05
  machine and he goes to destroy it.
• 1:28:07
  And then Jano catches himself with the pipe in his hand and it
• 1:28:12
  sort of drops to the floor. You don't get a lot of that, no.
• 1:28:15
  And that, that's some of the strongest.
• 1:28:17
  Put. Parts of this story I'm not so
• 1:28:19
  keen on the Nanina and Exhaust love story or anything like that
• 1:28:23
  love story. He meets her in The Cave and
• 1:28:26
  he's. Like, oh, you're.
• 1:28:26
  Nanina, aren't you? Yes.
• 1:28:28
  Go on. Well, they get.
• 1:28:30
  Together at the end in. A way, don't they?
• 1:28:32
  Because they're from the two different two in The Cave sides.
• 1:28:35
  Well, you'll see in a bit. I mean, she's very pretty, but
• 1:28:38
  look, let's. Take her for him.
• 1:28:39
  Honestly, she just wouldn't, would you?
• 1:28:41
  Oh do. You know what?
• 1:28:45
  When they're. Having it off, it could go
• 1:28:47
  Nanina. And this is.
• 1:28:50
  This is leading up all this stuff in the.
• 1:28:52
  Cave is leading up for a really clever moment with Steven and
• 1:28:56
  the mirror that he got as a gift earlier on.
• 1:28:58
  He bounces off the light because of these light guns.
• 1:29:00
  Oh, what? He bounces off the guards.
• 1:29:02
  The. Guards.
• 1:29:03
  Yeah, that's really clever. That's.
• 1:29:04
  His. Greek myths moment.
• 1:29:06
  There isn't it? And this is where Stephen is
• 1:29:09
  stepping up. Yeah, and it's not enough.
• 1:29:11
  Slowly. Things I mean how it does seem
• 1:29:14
  like. A big decision, like a quick
• 1:29:16
  decision at the end. I think that you know what it's
• 1:29:18
  definitely getting. Into it.
• 1:29:19
  He does care about the. Society if the show wasn't going
• 1:29:22
  through so many pairs of hands. Yeah, you know, he got, he was
• 1:29:25
  fed up at the end of Diet's master plan.
• 1:29:27
  He was fed up at the end of the massacre because they lost
• 1:29:29
  people in both stories and they they shouldn't have had a sort
• 1:29:34
  of running in the next couple of stories.
• 1:29:36
  Do you know what I think I need to go soon.
• 1:29:38
  I I don't think there's lifestyles for me anymore.
• 1:29:42
  Well, they did it with Victoria. They deal with other.
• 1:29:43
  Characters. They can do it.
• 1:29:46
  They did. It feels very.
• 1:29:47
  Sudden though in this. Story they're all so sudden
• 1:29:49
  around this time I. Mean yeah, the only thing I can
• 1:29:52
  see that's enticing. Is there's all these pretty
• 1:29:53
  girls around, you know, Flower and Nanila and all that?
• 1:29:58
  I don't know how a ghost you read though.
• 1:30:01
  Do you want to be the leader? Yeah, I'm.
• 1:30:03
  I'm there. Just take over this whole
• 1:30:05
  planet. I don't know is.
• 1:30:06
  There more than one city on this planet.
• 1:30:09
  Maybe it's just he just compared.
• 1:30:11
  To be travelling with Dodo anymore, no get away from.
• 1:30:14
  Her Jesus. Trunking away with that clown
• 1:30:18
  and celestial toy maker. See, I think John Cura hasn't
• 1:30:21
  done many. Telesnapes here because we're
• 1:30:23
  going back and forth on the same ones for a lot and actually
• 1:30:25
  there's not that much dialogue. There's less dialogue in this
• 1:30:28
  episode. There's a lot of action in these
• 1:30:30
  caves if you pardon the so I think if.
• 1:30:34
  This was animated. There would have to be a lot of
• 1:30:39
  work done here at this point, I think, and it's a bit difficult
• 1:30:42
  to live when you listen to the audio of this to exactly get
• 1:30:46
  what's going on here. I think this would have been
• 1:30:49
  shot very well though. I think this would have looked a
• 1:30:52
  laughing I noticed was actually. Dodo's.
• 1:30:54
  Treated quite seriously in this episode, you know, which is
• 1:30:58
  quite nice because usually she is the one that sort of bumbles
• 1:31:01
  into trouble, yeah, where she's actually quite useful in this
• 1:31:05
  Tor and wielder. Or there's a couple of.
• 1:31:07
  Space names if ever I heard them.
• 1:31:10
  Wielder I know. I know fashion name.
• 1:31:15
  And the Nina? Of course, from the wheel in.
• 1:31:17
  Space. What's her name?
• 1:31:18
  Tanya from the Wheel in Space. Is he?
• 1:31:20
  Yeah. Tanya Lin off.
• 1:31:22
  Yeah, they have. I told you about my nose.
• 1:31:24
  Yeah, it's Nose lady from Wheel in Space.
• 1:31:26
  God, she. Looks totally different.
• 1:31:29
  These people just turn up and everything, don't they?
• 1:31:31
  OK, I do have a question. We talked earlier in the story
• 1:31:37
  about this, about the Highlanders and about the
• 1:31:39
  smugglers. Why is it those?
• 1:31:43
  Stories are so. Neglected I I think people are
• 1:31:46
  going to see this coming out of my schedules and go well, what
• 1:31:48
  the fuck are you going to talk about the savages of 4 episodes?
• 1:31:51
  You know, when there is actually a lot.
• 1:31:53
  But why? Why do people?
• 1:31:56
  I think I think it's the simple. Fact that it's missing.
• 1:31:58
  There's not anything else and you don't have.
• 1:32:01
  Yeah, but there's Smuggler's Master Plan missing, but
• 1:32:03
  everyone talks about that. Smuggler's savages.
• 1:32:05
  Highlanders. There's no monsters.
• 1:32:07
  There's no big monster. There's not like, that's the
• 1:32:10
  thing in Galaxy 4 that we know. There's not like the reals,
• 1:32:12
  like, oh, actually there's a real in that list.
• 1:32:15
  There's. Only one picture of a real It's
• 1:32:17
  exciting. To see what a real might have
• 1:32:18
  been like. Actually, the War Machines is a
• 1:32:21
  big contemporary. Sort of alien invasion story, 10
• 1:32:24
  planet is a side man and regeneration story, Power of the
• 1:32:27
  Daleks as Daleks and the new Doctor.
• 1:32:29
  You're right, they haven't really got a hook, have they?
• 1:32:32
  No, I think that's what I think. It's lack of monsters.
• 1:32:34
  In these ones see this, it's a bit.
• 1:32:37
  Difficult to see what's. Going on here with what is Dodo
• 1:32:39
  doing there? It's like she's trying to crawl
• 1:32:41
  out of a hole. Yeah.
• 1:32:43
  Dodo love. Why?
• 1:32:44
  Did you get in that hole? And this.
• 1:32:47
  Is where the light? Look back again.
• 1:32:49
  Look. What is she holding?
• 1:32:50
  She. Holding onto something.
• 1:32:51
  That's my arm. That's a that's a muscly arm.
• 1:32:53
  Yeah, I know. Oh, the shell man.
• 1:32:55
  It's the old man. Oh, what's she on top of him?
• 1:32:57
  That's very. Difficult.
• 1:32:59
  Oh, John, cure, can you? Take him one more just.
• 1:33:01
  One more, you know, actually, can he have taken?
• 1:33:05
  Oh, I want you to take an existing story.
• 1:33:07
  And take 60 pictures and see if you.
• 1:33:09
  Can try and tell a. Narrative I'd take 25 for a
• 1:33:12
  second and then that would. Sort everyone's problems out.
• 1:33:14
  Yeah, we can have the technology back then and you can't.
• 1:33:17
  Tell on these loose cannon. Reconstruction.
• 1:33:18
  Is that an actual tether snap or is that because that sort of
• 1:33:21
  looks a really good shot of Stephen holding up with the
• 1:33:23
  guard? I see.
• 1:33:26
  Sometimes you can't tell. I think they've photoshopped
• 1:33:29
  some of these in. So actually, you can't 100% tell
• 1:33:32
  what John Cura did or not. So do you know what this is?
• 1:33:36
  I'll tell you what this episode is.
• 1:33:37
  It's episode 3 of the Space Museum, isn't it?
• 1:33:40
  You remember when? I know it was Episode 2?
• 1:33:42
  There's the episode where William Outlaw gets frozen in
• 1:33:44
  that machine, and then we're with the companions just trying
• 1:33:47
  to get into where he is, and Ian goes in with the gun.
• 1:33:51
  At the end, he goes, oh, Doctor. Well, exactly the same thing
• 1:33:53
  happens, isn't it? You've got Stephen and Dodo
• 1:33:55
  trying to get back to the place of the elders.
• 1:33:59
  They finally catch up with him at the end and exactly the same
• 1:34:01
  he's going, oh, you know, the gas comes in.
• 1:34:08
  So it does slow down. There's a lot of this.
• 1:34:10
  Cave stuff I know, but you know what?
• 1:34:13
  A lot of dogs. Who's?
• 1:34:14
  Have a lot of running around in episode 3.
• 1:34:16
  It's a very typical episode 3, yeah.
• 1:34:18
  And here you see, here, I don't know, I've got feeling well, he
• 1:34:23
  looks like he's in a terrible statement.
• 1:34:24
  He doesn't have many lines to learn this week.
• 1:34:27
  Well, happy I can do it all with a look, you know.
• 1:34:29
  And this is Jaino saying that he's going.
• 1:34:31
  To take all of the the doctor's life force because he's
• 1:34:34
  interested in in it in that way, no, but do you think it is
• 1:34:37
  because. Because he makes a suggestion
• 1:34:40
  that he's doing it because it's dangerous, because he's an
• 1:34:43
  alien. But do you think he's doing it
• 1:34:44
  because he knows the Doctor's smart and it's going to make
• 1:34:46
  him? He knows he knows exactly what
• 1:34:48
  he's doing. Do you?
• 1:34:49
  Think it's hubris rather than. Concern.
• 1:34:53
  I love this set actually. I think it looks really good.
• 1:34:57
  I mean, I think you've got your stock usual consoles on the back
• 1:35:00
  there. That's in every Doctor Who's
• 1:35:01
  story. But I'd I'd love to see how
• 1:35:04
  that, you know, with the, the bubbles in the in the tubes and
• 1:35:08
  everything. I'd love to see actually what it
• 1:35:10
  is. I can barely see any
• 1:35:12
  perceptible. Difference between the Frederick
• 1:35:14
  Jaeger of the Savages and Planet of Evil, but then between Planet
• 1:35:18
  of Evil and invisible Enemy. He seems to have aged about 10
• 1:35:21
  years. Yeah, he's an invisible.
• 1:35:23
  Enemy. That's because he's got that
• 1:35:24
  comedy. Beard.
• 1:35:27
  Comedy voice I hope is Tyler trend, you know?
• 1:35:32
  That. Bullshit.
• 1:35:34
  Actually, I secretly quite like him, you know.
• 1:35:37
  So Jane is going in this glass. Case thing.
• 1:35:41
  That's right, he's going to have the doctors.
• 1:35:42
  That looks very. Old thing, but he's in there.
• 1:35:44
  Do you think this was a genuine? They were going to give this as
• 1:35:49
  a genuine reason as to why the doctor had changed faces.
• 1:35:51
  No, I don't think so. What do you think they were?
• 1:35:53
  Charlie I. Think this is looking back and.
• 1:35:55
  People just putting that on. There, I don't think it's
• 1:35:58
  interesting that this would happen.
• 1:35:59
  Though in the 10th planet, they too effectively have him changed
• 1:36:02
  from one face to another. Well, yeah, they do.
• 1:36:05
  Yeah, but this is not changing. This is essence, isn't it?
• 1:36:08
  It's different. It's not.
• 1:36:10
  The Doctor is still there as a person.
• 1:36:12
  They'd have to. Really, they'd have to.
• 1:36:14
  Kill off that. The actual William Arnold.
• 1:36:18
  Man. All those other first doctors
• 1:36:21
  that we talked. About in at the beginning of the
• 1:36:23
  episode, I didn't ask you about Frederick Jaeger.
• 1:36:26
  How do you think? Oh, I think he's brilliant.
• 1:36:27
  Actually I. Think he pitches his voice a
• 1:36:29
  little too high pitched? Though, no, I kind of guess he.
• 1:36:32
  Sounds. Like.
• 1:36:34
  I'd. Love to see.
• 1:36:35
  This is the tragedy of not having this to see the
• 1:36:37
  mannerism. I bet he does those mannerisms
• 1:36:40
  very, very well, and I bet you we put into there, yeah.
• 1:36:44
  There's a lot of smoke in this the.
• 1:36:46
  Dry ice budget for this with all the guns and everything and all
• 1:36:50
  the lab stuff Stories with a lot of dry.
• 1:36:52
  Ice. You do dry ice going.
• 1:36:53
  On in this one and at the. End as well in the tunnel.
• 1:36:56
  There's lots of dry ice coming. Can I just say that there is a
• 1:36:59
  fantastic? Episode of Corners on YouTube
• 1:37:03
  featuring my favorite Sophie. All of course explaining how
• 1:37:07
  dry. Ice is.
• 1:37:08
  Made so everybody seek that out they don't really explain it
• 1:37:12
  that well though they. Just say here's a box and you
• 1:37:14
  put this in there and you do and you have some ice sort of water
• 1:37:16
  and the smoke comes. Out I've tried to do that you
• 1:37:18
  know before or make. Make my homemade dry ice machine
• 1:37:21
  in a party for a thing at. Work.
• 1:37:24
  Yeah. So we bought.
• 1:37:24
  The chemical because it was quite expensive to hire a dry
• 1:37:27
  ice machine, so I don't know why we decided to make our own
• 1:37:29
  because it was just as expensive to hire in the chemical.
• 1:37:32
  Was it toxic? Did you kill?
• 1:37:33
  No, it was fun. For a cinema event.
• 1:37:36
  So we've got we got a plastic box from like, OK, cut a hole in
• 1:37:40
  it and then we had to you put these crystals in, but you
• 1:37:44
  obviously have to have goggles and safety things because it's
• 1:37:46
  like toxic. You can't touch your skin and
• 1:37:48
  then you pour hot water in it and then it creates the dry ice
• 1:37:51
  and then found out well, but then everyone.
• 1:37:54
  'S sitting there at the cinema where we bring this.
• 1:37:55
  Homemade plastic box in the corner, pour some hot water from
• 1:37:58
  a kettle in it and all this dry ice comes out and then it sort
• 1:38:01
  of stops. You got to be there.
• 1:38:03
  Keep pouring in your hot water and adding crystals in.
• 1:38:06
  So don't don't try at home. It just sounds like a health
• 1:38:09
  safety. No, it absolutely.
• 1:38:10
  Was and add a bubble machine all the people still.
• 1:38:12
  Alive, yes. Doubly but it but it sort of
• 1:38:17
  left a sort of a. It sort of lingered a couple of
• 1:38:19
  centimetres on the floor, just all over the floor, which is why
• 1:38:23
  it wasn't, it wasn't as amazing as the Savage's dry ice here, if
• 1:38:26
  you care to go to, I think it was our.
• 1:38:28
  Keeper of Track and episodes of Hanselberg Blunt Pen knife Mark
• 1:38:32
  tells you about the other theme parties that you did.
• 1:38:34
  Dalek Invasion of Earth Twitter 50 AD What else did you do?
• 1:38:38
  Well this dry ass one was for Labyrinth.
• 1:38:41
  Oh, dance. Magic Dance.
• 1:38:42
  But anyway. Sorry.
• 1:38:45
  Couldn't really do a. Musical The Savages, could you?
• 1:38:48
  No, I don't think so. Oh yeah.
• 1:38:50
  You have a song called Nanina. Nanina.
• 1:38:54
  You want to see her? Don't.
• 1:38:58
  Go that way. No.
• 1:39:00
  Wait. It could be and this is.
• 1:39:02
  Edal singing this. OK, don't cry for me na na.
• 1:39:12
  Oh, the state of him. Is that the guy?
• 1:39:15
  This is guy from Planet of Evil as well.
• 1:39:16
  As you and so long yeah. Oh.
• 1:39:19
  Look, that's quite a nice. Entrance there to the place of
• 1:39:21
  the elders. Isn't it?
• 1:39:23
  Nothing's really got a name here, is it?
• 1:39:26
  It's, it's all the planet of the Savages, the place of the
• 1:39:28
  Elders. You know, Ian Stewart Black.
• 1:39:31
  Actually, he did the same thing in, didn't he?
• 1:39:35
  It's an unnamed colony. It is.
• 1:39:37
  Yeah, which is? Decidedly futuristic, whatever
• 1:39:41
  that means. The.
• 1:39:44
  Guard hears something and looks up casually.
• 1:39:47
  These these are very useful. You know he's eating his fruit.
• 1:39:50
  Stephen moves within his gun trigger happy in this.
• 1:39:54
  Isn't he using the? Light gun maybe they see he's
• 1:39:57
  very protective, that's why they offer.
• 1:39:58
  Him the the Presidency. And should you wish to discover
• 1:40:03
  what happened to Stephen after these events, there are three
• 1:40:06
  fabulous companion chronicles written by our new friends Simon
• 1:40:10
  Guria. In Big Finish, Yeah, and Dodo
• 1:40:14
  here's wearing what she wears. In the war machines, isn't she?
• 1:40:16
  It's the same outfit, so we know what she look.
• 1:40:18
  Stephen's in a lovely black turtleneck, isn't he?
• 1:40:22
  She's all in black young though, isn't it?
• 1:40:23
  She looks quite front of close. To like well, she was young.
• 1:40:27
  In Celestial. Toy makers, but.
• 1:40:29
  It's. Funny that the.
• 1:40:30
  Costume she ends up in for a couple of stories.
• 1:40:32
  Is this very? Maybe that was.
• 1:40:35
  The thing she ends up going to the.
• 1:40:37
  Hottest. Nightclub.
• 1:40:38
  In town. Where, Where in the and she's
• 1:40:40
  worn it on the planet. The savages.
• 1:40:41
  She must stink the old. Time she gets the inferno, she
• 1:40:44
  hasn't got changed, has she? She's gone through, she's gone
• 1:40:46
  caving here, she's got gassed, all these things.
• 1:40:50
  No one. She's got Spears that are in the
• 1:40:52
  in the quarry and then by the time she gets to London she's
• 1:40:56
  off on a night out with Polly stinking on kin.
• 1:40:59
  No wonder Polly pitches her for Ben as soon.
• 1:41:01
  As she can, but the first point she gets to have a shower is
• 1:41:04
  when she's off. In the country at the end of the
• 1:41:06
  war machine. Do you remember that line?
• 1:41:07
  You were a line. Polly has come on Dodo the.
• 1:41:09
  Navy's in trouble. Hi.
• 1:41:15
  Oh, many a times. In my past, you know, I wish the
• 1:41:17
  Navy was in trouble. I'd help him out.
• 1:41:20
  Oh, here we have Jane O. He's.
• 1:41:22
  He's got the essence now and this is what you say where he's
• 1:41:25
  fighting and I like, it's very subtle at first, isn't it?
• 1:41:29
  Yeah, He's not lapel clutching or anything.
• 1:41:31
  Like that, it's not suddenly over the top.
• 1:41:33
  Although we don't know where they're choosing these
• 1:41:35
  telesnaps. From though and it's not 100%
• 1:41:37
  obvious that. Felt like gold as well.
• 1:41:39
  It's got AI. Think they have got a shimmer,
• 1:41:41
  haven't they? A.
• 1:41:42
  Shimmer. A shimmer like, you know, like.
• 1:41:44
  A spray. You know, like glitter spray.
• 1:41:45
  Is it supposed to suggest sort of opulence?
• 1:41:48
  Yeah, I think. So.
• 1:41:51
  Do you think there's enough? Plot here for 4 episodes.
• 1:41:54
  I think I think this is. No, I think I.
• 1:41:58
  Think it'd be a title free? Actually, yeah, yeah, because
• 1:42:01
  this could have happened much sooner.
• 1:42:02
  Yeah. We'll be running around in
• 1:42:04
  caves. For 10 minutes, Yeah.
• 1:42:08
  Of Lisa. Well.
• 1:42:08
  Christmas, my child, no. No, go along with you and fiddle
• 1:42:12
  about. I'd be scared to do this in
• 1:42:14
  front of William Hart. Although.
• 1:42:15
  Well, it's like Mara said about when she was.
• 1:42:17
  Doing mail in Tom and Arani that whenever Bolly was around, she'd
• 1:42:21
  brought it down a little bit, actually got dodo in this place.
• 1:42:25
  And Dodo gets the essence of the doctor.
• 1:42:27
  That would have been the male effect, wouldn't it?
• 1:42:32
  They could do it now, but it would be Lauren.
• 1:42:34
  Cornelius doing an impression of Steven.
• 1:42:35
  Noonan Oh my God, Doctor Dodo body swap you see in this very
• 1:42:45
  few telesnaps. That.
• 1:42:46
  We've got, he's got his hand up there.
• 1:42:47
  I think he's doing the mannerisms.
• 1:42:51
  Well, yeah, this is the sort of stuff you want to.
• 1:42:53
  See, that's what we want to see. That's what that person that's
• 1:42:56
  got it. Is watching now tell us what
• 1:42:58
  it's like that person that's got it in your basement or better
• 1:43:01
  still, give it to us. How?
• 1:43:02
  Much How many times do you actually watch the?
• 1:43:04
  Savages person in your basement, do you watch it that much?
• 1:43:08
  Do you really? Oh, we're.
• 1:43:09
  Going to a. Boot fair tomorrow.
• 1:43:11
  Yeah, I'm telling you now, people at home should.
• 1:43:13
  Oh, look, it's just come live. Yeah, a little bit of.
• 1:43:16
  Steven Doe, someone just. Film that tiny.
• 1:43:18
  They've got it up against the. Yeah, you know, you press the.
• 1:43:21
  Thing couldn't have done that for the whole story.
• 1:43:24
  I would have made done with that.
• 1:43:26
  Yeah. Go back to my story.
• 1:43:28
  We're going to a boot. Fair tomorrow, should we
• 1:43:30
  discover the Savages and that boot Fair for, you know, 50P?
• 1:43:33
  Yeah, it's going straight to the BBC, everybody.
• 1:43:36
  Yeah, we wouldn't. Deny people.
• 1:43:39
  No. Got a little TV, they've got the
• 1:43:42
  monitor. So now they're waiting for.
• 1:43:48
  The Doctor. Yeah, Stephen and Dodo to come
• 1:43:50
  in and then they're going to gas him.
• 1:43:52
  Is that right? Yeah.
• 1:43:53
  I like this set, this corridor set.
• 1:43:55
  Oh yeah, you said that earlier, Did I?
• 1:43:57
  Yeah. What's the light?
• 1:43:58
  That's good, that's why. And the minute you get those?
• 1:44:02
  Strings coming in again. Poor Dodo, I feel as if.
• 1:44:11
  Maybe she, if she had to come in after Vicky and just had the
• 1:44:14
  whole season, would've been quite nice.
• 1:44:16
  She had a better haircut as well that might have.
• 1:44:18
  Helped. That's a Beatles mop.
• 1:44:21
  Top she's This is very reminiscent at the end of. 10th
• 1:44:24
  planet isn't it with the Doctor there at the end?
• 1:44:26
  That could be a shot from the 10th planet.
• 1:44:28
  Looks like I was having a stroke.
• 1:44:30
  What? He's doing is.
• 1:44:32
  He's totally out. But you can just see him walking
• 1:44:34
  forward and going. It's far from being all over
• 1:44:37
  with the Stephen and Dodo there. It could happen right now,
• 1:44:40
  that's true. And you know what?
• 1:44:42
  You, you just say. It's only fans doing this sort
• 1:44:44
  of story about how the Doctor regenerated, but he does go
• 1:44:47
  through a lot of shit in series. Three time destructor, you know,
• 1:44:51
  head sucked. He he doesn't, you know?
• 1:44:55
  If he went to. Season 1 you could.
• 1:44:56
  Probably find a load of war machines, he felt as if.
• 1:44:59
  Somebody was trying to absorb him, you know.
• 1:45:03
  Well, this would now be you'd what you've.
• 1:45:05
  Got yeah, what those stories that you mentioned, it'll be
• 1:45:08
  like Avengers symbol all the baddies coming together like
• 1:45:12
  Pandorica opens, but the Pandorica gets the Doctor.
• 1:45:14
  So it's Woh Tan in conjunction with the planet of the Savages,
• 1:45:18
  Jaino. And who else did you say?
• 1:45:20
  The Time Destructor? The Daleks are there and they're
• 1:45:23
  all like all together. They all call up each other.
• 1:45:27
  At the end of this and be like go and they've all been working
• 1:45:30
  together this whole time to get the doctor and brothers.
• 1:45:34
  Well, maybe after. Become fires maybe?
• 1:45:35
  The Celestial toy maker as well. They've all been working
• 1:45:38
  together and then the Cybermen come in at the end as well.
• 1:45:40
  Like we have the old now. This is our kebab of villains
• 1:45:45
  and. All that in the.
• 1:45:46
  Winter coming out of the snow at the end, the Cybermen, Maverick
• 1:45:49
  Chen in a lovely sheepskin coat in the winter and Jaino and
• 1:45:56
  everyone's there. Yeah, I could see that.
• 1:45:57
  You know, that would be cool. Soon.
• 1:45:58
  Once of them. So that's your toy.
• 1:46:00
  Maker Mavic. Chen side men and Daleks that
• 1:46:03
  looks fabulous teaming together. Think about the end of the
• 1:46:05
  Pandorica Opens. You know I just said that.
• 1:46:07
  Yeah, I don't. Listen to him.
• 1:46:12
  Clearly I don't. Pandorica opens, but it's like
• 1:46:14
  the 10th. Planet and that opens and he and
• 1:46:16
  he's trapped within the 10th planet amazing and forced to
• 1:46:20
  regenerate. I want to see that you.
• 1:46:22
  Know I'm surprised I was. Done that as a graphic novel or
• 1:46:25
  a Big Finish audio or a book. Yeah.
• 1:46:27
  And then Polly and Ben are like. A year have to travel the world
• 1:46:30
  for like a year and help and talk to everybody and then they
• 1:46:33
  come and get him out of the like Sharda or something.
• 1:46:37
  No, that's too far. They get Patrick Trout and out
• 1:46:41
  of. Sharda can I?
• 1:46:43
  Can I? Bring some.
• 1:46:45
  Semblance. Of normality for this.
• 1:46:47
  Conversation and out it by saying the biggest shock of all
• 1:46:51
  is yeah, she gets fabulous character names like Nanina and
• 1:46:56
  Tanya Leinov and guess what? Her real name is Claire Jenkins.
• 1:47:05
  We'll stop at that. There we go.
• 1:47:31
  None. Hamster with a blump pen knife
• 1:47:43
  for doing quicker. Oh, welcome back to.
• 1:47:52
  Hamster with a blump pen knife. The Doctor Who Commentary
• 1:47:55
  podcast. I'm Mark and I'm Joe.
• 1:48:01
  This is Joe. Hello, hello, hello.
• 1:48:04
  And. You're joining us for.
• 1:48:06
  Part four of the Savages, yes, which originally got 5 million.
• 1:48:10
  5. Million, only 5 million.
• 1:48:12
  Gone are the heavy heights of Season 2.
• 1:48:15
  I know 5,000,000.2 now we've asked.
• 1:48:17
  Watching I think that's 5,000,000.00. 0005.2 million.
• 1:48:25
  I thought, you're going to say something I'm not.
• 1:48:34
  Going to say. Anything.
• 1:48:35
  No. Oh, right.
• 1:48:35
  Well, this. Is all yours?
• 1:48:37
  Well. We last.
• 1:48:38
  Left. Stephen.
• 1:48:42
  Dodo and the Doctor on the planet of the Savages being
• 1:48:45
  gassed being gassed. The Doctor's been.
• 1:48:47
  Sucked out. And he's lost his mind.
• 1:48:52
  Presumably he popped into Jaino, Yes, and now some.
• 1:48:56
  Lots more dry ice. Is coming towards them.
• 1:48:58
  So we're going to see what happens in this conclusion.
• 1:49:00
  And this is Peter Purves's last episode as well.
• 1:49:03
  That was the question I would like to ask.
• 1:49:05
  You before we go into Episode 4, Episode 4, Part 4, Episode 4,
• 1:49:10
  Episode 4. Well, yeah, because this is.
• 1:49:12
  The first story with number titles, then you don't have the.
• 1:49:15
  Episode. Names Jerry.
• 1:49:18
  Jerry Taylor. Jerry Davis was like, oh, I
• 1:49:21
  can't be asked to think up episode titles anymore.
• 1:49:23
  Do you miss those? Really.
• 1:49:25
  No, I do I, I. Like them for as long as they
• 1:49:28
  last, but I wouldn't want to be going into 2nd 3rd for 5th
• 1:49:32
  Doctor. What if they were always had
• 1:49:34
  from Doctor Who The. Whole 26 years would read the
• 1:49:37
  whole 26 years. Imagine what?
• 1:49:39
  Story titles. Would you have been?
• 1:49:43
  Oh. Jesus, episode 2 of Creature for
• 1:49:46
  the Pit would be the Dick cometh or something like that wouldn't
• 1:49:49
  it? You know what about time in
• 1:49:51
  Ronnie Part 1? Beside dynasty, a bad day for.
• 1:49:57
  Urak. I'll be called Leave the girl.
• 1:50:03
  What would you call part four of the Savages in?
• 1:50:07
  Farewell. Stephen.
• 1:50:10
  No. It's more difficult than you
• 1:50:12
  think for. Every family Stephen Joe Davis
• 1:50:14
  My. Question wasn't going to be
• 1:50:17
  about the titles though. It was going to be about Steven
• 1:50:19
  Taylor. Well, I think.
• 1:50:22
  You're quite. Keen on Stephen, you know, And I
• 1:50:24
  don't mean you just want to fuck him.
• 1:50:26
  I mean, I think you're quite keen on the character, is that
• 1:50:28
  right? Well, he's held everything
• 1:50:30
  together for this whole. Season pretty much hasn't he?
• 1:50:34
  Since he came in, he's been consistently strong.
• 1:50:38
  We got the. Massacre, which is basically
• 1:50:39
  just. Him.
• 1:50:40
  Yeah. Like if if he wasn't.
• 1:50:42
  Around, I wonder what I mean, you would have had what Sarah
• 1:50:48
  Kingdom would have taken a lot of the story or like Vicky, I
• 1:50:52
  mean, if they didn't have two companions a lot of the time,
• 1:50:58
  what would they have done if they didn't have a Steven
• 1:51:00
  Taylor? I just can't imagine.
• 1:51:03
  I think the show would have suffered the show around.
• 1:51:05
  Couldn't run guest. Actors to go through.
• 1:51:07
  I'd say say Stephen wasn't in Dallas.
• 1:51:09
  Master plan? What and what is the Doctor?
• 1:51:12
  And Katarina on. Their own doctor and Sarah are
• 1:51:15
  on their own so and then she dies.
• 1:51:17
  Then he's on his own for yeah, I don't know, Purvis is single
• 1:51:20
  handedly responsible for. Doctor Who continuing during
• 1:51:23
  whatever. I think it's very turbulent
• 1:51:24
  periods. I think you should.
• 1:51:25
  Give them a lot of credit. Yeah.
• 1:51:27
  But as well, you know, and I think.
• 1:51:29
  He's. Certainly done a lot of
• 1:51:30
  presenting. I think he's a very good actor
• 1:51:33
  as well and I think you've only got to go and listen to his
• 1:51:35
  companion chronicles to show he's still got a lot to offer.
• 1:51:39
  It's a shame he didn't carry on. Doing I mean many acting roles
• 1:51:44
  after Doctor didn't do. Anything.
• 1:51:45
  He got that sweet job over with Billy.
• 1:51:47
  Baxter, didn't he? Well, yeah, I mean Blue Peter.
• 1:51:51
  It's a good. Job to have a great time.
• 1:51:53
  I read the book. He was fucking off the cast.
• 1:51:56
  I'm getting a salary. He said in that book.
• 1:51:59
  He had sex with two of the presenters.
• 1:52:03
  I read it myself. That was our direct quote from
• 1:52:06
  Peter Burvis. All right, that dirty bugger.
• 1:52:09
  Honestly, everyone doing. Ups another that in that
• 1:52:11
  convention. We saw him mate.
• 1:52:14
  Well, not recently. I don't think.
• 1:52:17
  I've made him some toast once, you know.
• 1:52:18
  Yes, I know. I saw.
• 1:52:20
  Yeah, it was like. You 2 at the food machine and
• 1:52:22
  the TARDIS. Amazing.
• 1:52:24
  It was getting very. Impatient with the toast
• 1:52:25
  machine? So I said DFP, I take mine.
• 1:52:28
  I think he's got a bad hip. Is he?
• 1:52:29
  Did he have a hip? Replacement.
• 1:52:30
  He didn't man anymore, is he but.
• 1:52:34
  Do you think this is an adequate exit for Stephen?
• 1:52:38
  And because I was reading a quote before we went into this
• 1:52:41
  episode where Peter Burvis was saying he didn't want to go, he
• 1:52:44
  was very happy to continue. And I think he did struggle to
• 1:52:47
  find work afterwards, which is what that Blue Peter John coming
• 1:52:49
  when it did was a stroke of luck.
• 1:52:52
  But you. Know I do.
• 1:52:54
  Think that Ben and Polly did bring an injection of sort of
• 1:52:59
  youthful vigour to the show and the ratings started climbing.
• 1:53:04
  From the 10th planet onwards, the rating started climbing.
• 1:53:07
  I think it's not a bad. Exit storyline.
• 1:53:10
  For him, it could have been worse.
• 1:53:13
  He could have suddenly wanted to marry Nanina, like come along
• 1:53:17
  with that. Like he could have just.
• 1:53:18
  Suddenly come out of nowhere. Like that children, wouldn't
• 1:53:21
  they? Yeah, so.
• 1:53:21
  I think the 'cause that he. This reason that he stayed to do
• 1:53:25
  that, I think no, no other companion had done that before.
• 1:53:27
  I don't know, maybe Susan in a way, but not really.
• 1:53:31
  Susan wasn't taking over the Earth for sure, but.
• 1:53:33
  She was helping rebuild the earth in a similar.
• 1:53:35
  Way. I mean she got both, she got the
• 1:53:37
  marriage and the rebuilding the Earth, but no one else has
• 1:53:41
  really come across. All the other companion X's,
• 1:53:45
  maybe apart from Katarina have been a bit rubbish.
• 1:53:48
  Trouble is just suddenly been married.
• 1:53:50
  Off have you seen? This dreary bunch on the planet
• 1:53:52
  as the. Savages, I mean, I wouldn't
• 1:53:54
  already hanging around with this bunch for the rest of my life.
• 1:53:56
  Let's start episode 4, and we shall continue as we.
• 1:53:58
  Shall see what happens. So OK loose.
• 1:54:00
  Are you scared I'm going to exhaust all the conversation?
• 1:54:03
  In the first exhaust. Oh.
• 1:54:07
  Such a witty fault. Is this the episode where you.
• 1:54:11
  Got you know. My deal there's something very
• 1:54:13
  satisfying about destroying something that's evil and the
• 1:54:16
  Toto goes yes that bits someone's tell you film that bit
• 1:54:22
  yeah, you say yeah of course out of all the stuff they they.
• 1:54:25
  Filmed some good bits, didn't they?
• 1:54:26
  She's absolutely vicious with that axe, I tell.
• 1:54:29
  You and here we are in this amazing set full of.
• 1:54:31
  Smoke down, down the gassy tunnel.
• 1:54:34
  Oh my dear, do you know before? I discovered.
• 1:54:37
  I had a gluten intolerance. Oh my God, I had a very gassy.
• 1:54:40
  Tunnel, didn't I? No.
• 1:54:44
  Look at William Hart though. I mean, he's.
• 1:54:45
  Doing it well, he's having a bad.
• 1:54:47
  Day. Maybe it's just a bad photo.
• 1:54:49
  Maybe that's all it is. It could be a What do you mean
• 1:54:52
  it's a bad photo? It's a.
• 1:54:53
  Photograph of what was. Going on, I know, but it's in in
• 1:54:56
  movement, isn't it? That's true.
• 1:54:58
  That photo, that William Hartnell there leaning up
• 1:54:59
  against the thing, That's when you open your camera phone and
• 1:55:03
  it's on you when you do it. That's what it.
• 1:55:08
  Is. You're not wrong.
• 1:55:10
  I hate that, you know. Because you don't get.
• 1:55:11
  The angle right and you feel your chin, the camera the wrong
• 1:55:14
  way round. Painful.
• 1:55:16
  Thank God it don't snap it. Straight away you managed to get
• 1:55:19
  the light in right? Oh, if any William Hart was
• 1:55:22
  alive in the time of selfies, Oh my God, he wouldn't have it.
• 1:55:25
  He wouldn't. I'm a legitimate actor.
• 1:55:28
  Off the screen. And stage.
• 1:55:30
  Excuse me Sir, could I have a selfie?
• 1:55:33
  Oh, Heather, take the take the photo. 30 lbs is my child.
• 1:55:39
  Oh, we'd rake it in. But I think he's back in the
• 1:55:42
  action. Now.
• 1:55:44
  Yeah, no, he wasn't. No, he wasn't one.
• 1:55:46
  Other he wasn't. No, they're just kidding.
• 1:55:47
  I'm trying to work out. Maybe that's why.
• 1:55:51
  But he would say he's an old man.
• 1:55:52
  He's a younger man here than Paul Mcgahn is now.
• 1:55:55
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 1:55:57
  And I've seen Paul. Mcgahn.
• 1:55:59
  Which goes to show him what a great actor he.
• 1:56:01
  Was Toby Hado said to me that he.
• 1:56:03
  Thinks sort of 55 then, is a bit like 70 now.
• 1:56:09
  Yeah, that is true, men. Older men were older men.
• 1:56:13
  Yeah, absolutely. Everyone look, Yeah.
• 1:56:17
  It's like, yeah, you see those, you know, footage of like, I
• 1:56:22
  don't know, there's people in the 70s even like when we did
• 1:56:24
  the the neighbors commentary and Madge from neighbors was like
• 1:56:28
  30, but she was dressed like and looked like 50 or 60.
• 1:56:32
  And you know isn't it Because I'll tell you what, I'll tell
• 1:56:34
  you what I. Think nowadays younger kid kids
• 1:56:38
  look older than they are because they dress up, but I think older
• 1:56:43
  people look younger because older people.
• 1:56:46
  Dress younger. Well, there's more.
• 1:56:48
  Like, I don't know. Cosmetics and things back, you
• 1:56:53
  know, than back then. I mean, if William Arnall could
• 1:56:56
  get his all his teeth done back then I'm sure he would have had
• 1:56:58
  his veneers done like Katie Price or whatever, you know,
• 1:57:03
  making a direction between. Jordan.
• 1:57:06
  And. William Hartnell, Heat Magazine.
• 1:57:08
  William Hartnell, Doctor Who. Spotted with the price down
• 1:57:11
  Harley Street. That's the store where we all
• 1:57:19
  want to hear. Oh, do you?
• 1:57:22
  Have one of these days there's. Going to be a fabulous.
• 1:57:24
  Scandal around Doctor Who character in there Doctor Who
• 1:57:26
  actor what from the past or? Current current There is some
• 1:57:31
  current ones that are no. Clark, John.
• 1:57:33
  Barrowman, JNT Savages. Sorry.
• 1:57:39
  I What do you think of all this? Set these.
• 1:57:42
  In this forest and stuff because we.
• 1:57:44
  Just saw. The Dodo and the doctor.
• 1:57:45
  Being more taking the sort of the comatose Dr. into this cave,
• 1:57:50
  yeah, it's not bad I've. Seen.
• 1:57:52
  Bear. I've seen worse.
• 1:57:55
  It's better than kinder. And worse than.
• 1:57:57
  Creature from the pit. Those are my 2.
• 1:58:00
  I always give you know because. Kinder always looks very
• 1:58:02
  artificial and creature from the pit always looks very
• 1:58:04
  convincing. What do you think of people
• 1:58:06
  trying to colourise the? 60s stories Hang on, we've got
• 1:58:09
  some moving pictures are. Moving.
• 1:58:10
  Stephen I love Steven. That was really good.
• 1:58:13
  I love his hair. His hair, I say.
• 1:58:14
  His head. He's happy.
• 1:58:16
  I think his hair is the best in the story.
• 1:58:18
  We miss out on some really good hair, apart from that person in
• 1:58:20
  the basement that's got this and he's watching.
• 1:58:22
  I just want it on record for hair, right?
• 1:58:24
  Now he looks absolutely. Sexy.
• 1:58:26
  And I would lick his ass on with Oh my God, please.
• 1:58:30
  I'm so sorry. Just for the people that take
• 1:58:37
  note of that sort of thing. You know what the hell is that
• 1:58:40
  thingy gun? It looks like one of those.
• 1:58:42
  Things you put money in on the. Beach to look out to sea?
• 1:58:44
  Yes, I've got some. Very weird helmets going.
• 1:58:48
  On as well. And here we've got the doctor.
• 1:58:51
  Being again. Still taken through.
• 1:58:53
  It's still quite slow, isn't it? He's not sweet enough.
• 1:58:56
  Looks look, he's. Got his curl behind this is it
• 1:58:59
  makes such a difference that he hasn't got his.
• 1:59:01
  Tie on. His tie done up, he looks so I
• 1:59:03
  don't know why it's really unusual to see the doctor
• 1:59:06
  casually. Very more casual this.
• 1:59:09
  Is casually gets. I think no.
• 1:59:12
  Oh, and it's the. Space.
• 1:59:14
  Museum when he's in his. Undies.
• 1:59:15
  Oh God, you remember. Oh my God, do you think that
• 1:59:17
  photo exists? Somewhere the full.
• 1:59:19
  Actual. Is it actually him?
• 1:59:21
  No, you're not buying it. No Imagine.
• 1:59:23
  If that is out there somewhere in.
• 1:59:24
  Like full. I think it only exists on what
• 1:59:27
  we see on the TVI don't think there's a someone out there has
• 1:59:29
  got that negative. But do you know, I think what's
• 1:59:32
  interesting about this? Last episode is it is breaking
• 1:59:34
  with conventions because you get the guard character and he does
• 1:59:38
  have a change of heart, doesn't he?
• 1:59:39
  And he does help them out. And you've got Jaino, who's got
• 1:59:43
  the doctor's mind inside of him and he is part of the Clive axis
• 1:59:47
  as well. Whereas skip forward to the
• 1:59:49
  Macrotera. What was that big fat guy in
• 1:59:50
  that? Ola the guard, He doesn't turn
• 1:59:54
  good by the end. Of the.
• 1:59:56
  No. I'm not.
• 1:59:58
  I'm not going to. You know, make a statement and
• 2:00:01
  say Exhaust is one of the most exciting characters.
• 2:00:04
  Well, you don't remember these characters, do you?
• 2:00:06
  Here. We look here he is now Nanina.
• 2:00:08
  'S tending for him in The Cave yeah it's a shame that these
• 2:00:12
  because there. Are other stories where those
• 2:00:15
  guest actors, those guest characters are very men?
• 2:00:18
  Well, obviously. It's it's Jane.
• 2:00:20
  O Inez lane off I can't see. It you know, someone said who
• 2:00:25
  said it. Definitely is Claire Jenkins are
• 2:00:28
  you talking maybe? She's a different one.
• 2:00:29
  Maybe that's not Nanina. OK, I'm getting confused now.
• 2:00:33
  Toby haddo be tearing his era wrong, Yeah.
• 2:00:35
  Getting all the details wrong, you know it is.
• 2:00:38
  It's terrible. I'm not going.
• 2:00:38
  To do that. Thing that he really hates and
• 2:00:40
  that's. Going off to investigate, she
• 2:00:43
  was. We'll take it.
• 2:00:45
  As written that she was you. Know look at how they look.
• 2:00:49
  She's got. Oh, I see.
• 2:00:50
  She's got the. Stick.
• 2:00:51
  Up to the guard. Is it Edow she has a
• 2:00:54
  relationship with or exhaust? I thought it's exhaust.
• 2:00:56
  It's exhaust. Strange name they've got.
• 2:00:58
  But. You've got detail.
• 2:01:01
  Here as well these. In The Cave, it's not just OK if
• 2:01:04
  you've got these called carvings on the wall, it's quite good
• 2:01:08
  set. I'm going to take a punt and
• 2:01:10
  say. That I think Christopher Barry,
• 2:01:12
  this is during the period where he still knew how to direct
• 2:01:15
  because I'm telling you, I saw downtime recently and there did
• 2:01:18
  come a time when he completely forgot how to direct, but yet
• 2:01:22
  it's not talked when you talk. About Christopher Barry and all
• 2:01:24
  the stories that he's directed. It's not talked about.
• 2:01:27
  Behave yourself. Look at the rest of those
• 2:01:29
  stories. I know Brain and Morbius, the
• 2:01:31
  demons, the Daleks. So in terms of stories, Romans,
• 2:01:35
  so in. Terms of scripts.
• 2:01:36
  Is this his? Weakest story that he was given
• 2:01:39
  to direct. I think he.
• 2:01:41
  Does a good job. From what we can see.
• 2:01:43
  I think, but in terms of the stories.
• 2:01:47
  Yeah. I yeah, I'd probably say so.
• 2:01:50
  Well, stuff like Brain and Morbius has got such vivid
• 2:01:53
  imagery even on the page. What's, what have they written
• 2:01:56
  down here? Oh, yeah.
• 2:01:57
  A futuristic set and a a cave and a forest.
• 2:02:01
  Are you going to like that? Exciting.
• 2:02:03
  Well, this is very much. There's a lot of walking up and
• 2:02:05
  down. Caves in Brain and Morbius in
• 2:02:07
  very similar fashion actually. Do you know I was looking up the
• 2:02:10
  composer Raymond? Jones, before this, he didn't do
• 2:02:13
  much of our music, you know, which is a shame because he's
• 2:02:16
  very good. He's got his, he's got his
• 2:02:19
  strings out quite a bit. Oh, don't look well, does he?
• 2:02:25
  I just can't get over him not having a tie.
• 2:02:30
  You know when he went out for a. Curry with Verity Lambert.
• 2:02:33
  What was his name? The.
• 2:02:35
  Director Warren. Hussain, he probably looked a
• 2:02:37
  bit like that then, you know? I think I know.
• 2:02:42
  Why this story isn't very well. Remembered why?
• 2:02:45
  I think it's sort of mired in cliches, you know, the rich
• 2:02:48
  lynching of the poor savages versus the posh people,
• 2:02:55
  quarries, like what really stands out here.
• 2:02:58
  I'm not, I'm not saying it's bad.
• 2:02:59
  I do think it's a fun story. There's some more moving footage
• 2:03:03
  that we've got. There I well, I think it's this
• 2:03:06
  impression of this mind swap idea.
• 2:03:09
  You know that it gets about 10 minutes.
• 2:03:11
  Interesting. I would, I would choose this if
• 2:03:16
  it existed, or I would choose to listen to this over some other
• 2:03:21
  60 stories, like maybe the Space Museum or something like that.
• 2:03:23
  It keeps leaping. It's a life I know.
• 2:03:26
  Every time it leaps he like. Made a terrible mistake.
• 2:03:31
  We've all forgot that it exists. You know when you stare at me.
• 2:03:35
  And my heart. Skips a beat.
• 2:03:37
  That's exactly what happens when reconstructions leap into life
• 2:03:41
  like that. William Harnell.
• 2:03:42
  He's back. He really is on.
• 2:03:43
  Form here, Yeah, he's Brit. He's Brit.
• 2:03:46
  He really is that. Strong.
• 2:03:48
  I don't. Buy that like he was strong,
• 2:03:49
  he's weak. No.
• 2:03:50
  Like he was strong in episode. One, it's just.
• 2:03:52
  He had, but is that because he hasn't been given these bits to
• 2:03:55
  do? He's added no, he's had a bit of
• 2:03:57
  episode off. He's not relentlessly having
• 2:04:00
  every week speech, speech, speech.
• 2:04:02
  He's got a bit of time to sit in bed with Heather Hartnell and
• 2:04:05
  not do your script. I think when he gets the.
• 2:04:08
  Opportunity, IE when it's on the page, he's really trying to
• 2:04:13
  impress that. Remember the end of episode 2 or
• 2:04:16
  three of the war machines where he steps up in front of the war
• 2:04:19
  machine and he's never looked more commanding and he's
• 2:04:21
  basically saying, this is still my fucking show, all right, and
• 2:04:25
  I'm the best. I wonder if if the seasons
• 2:04:28
  weren't. As long if they'd made, you
• 2:04:31
  know. Well, they did that.
• 2:04:32
  They were purple, Yeah. If they went to that model.
• 2:04:35
  If they went. To that model now he and he'd be
• 2:04:38
  able to manage and you have like you work 6 months, six months
• 2:04:41
  off they almost he would have been able to continue.
• 2:04:43
  It if they. Just threw in the younger.
• 2:04:47
  Sort of more energetic Patrick Troughton and they nearly
• 2:04:51
  fucking killed him by the walk. Patrick Troughton couldn't have
• 2:04:54
  done it. And that's when they went, oh,
• 2:04:55
  actually, maybe the way. We're making this is wrong and
• 2:04:59
  Pertwee comes along and goes well.
• 2:05:01
  I'm going to go off to Ibe for twice a year for a month.
• 2:05:04
  He's off clubbing, so you've. Only got me for half a year.
• 2:05:07
  It's a shame, isn't it, because he could have just done a.
• 2:05:09
  Little bit more and then there would have been a bit more time
• 2:05:12
  maybe on the script I suppose. I don't know how it worked, but
• 2:05:15
  then maybe we must have had to have.
• 2:05:17
  Would we a certain amount of. Episodes a year to.
• 2:05:21
  Make it work or money or whatever.
• 2:05:24
  So now you'd lose. I don't know.
• 2:05:27
  You just have shorter stories. You have two two-part 2 parters
• 2:05:33
  you realize you're eliminating. Doctor Who here.
• 2:05:35
  I know, but then if the quality goes up and you get more.
• 2:05:37
  William Hartnell. Yeah, that's true.
• 2:05:40
  That's all. These What?
• 2:05:41
  Ifs. But then if we had.
• 2:05:42
  More William Hartnell we'd have. Less Patrick Troughton.
• 2:05:45
  We might not have Patrick Trant at all.
• 2:05:46
  They might. Have had the.
• 2:05:47
  Show his hair is a terrible. Disarray in this episode.
• 2:05:51
  Not not as much as Chow, leader of the Savages, but it's pretty
• 2:05:56
  bad. Obviously, you know when William
• 2:06:01
  Hartnell's got lots. Of humour, you know, when he
• 2:06:03
  goes, it'd be very, very dangerous indeed.
• 2:06:06
  I feel like I wish it. Was my granddad you?
• 2:06:10
  Know or just my daddy? Oh.
• 2:06:17
  So. What do you think of you and
• 2:06:18
  Solon in Planet of Evil then? He's pretty.
• 2:06:22
  Scary in that he's pretty. Good.
• 2:06:24
  In that I think, no, you're talking about Frederick Jager.
• 2:06:26
  Oh, sorry. Yeah.
• 2:06:27
  Yeah, sorry, he's Brzezinski. Oh, he's the sensible 1, isn't
• 2:06:30
  he? Yes.
• 2:06:31
  Give the order. It's that.
• 2:06:33
  One, yeah. Oh, here we go, We've got
• 2:06:37
  Hartnell. Facing up against Jano now.
• 2:06:39
  So is he basically talking to himself?
• 2:06:42
  No, they aren't their. Own people, they've just got
• 2:06:44
  these elements of. The personalities, haven't they?
• 2:06:48
  It's just rubbed off for now. I.
• 2:06:49
  Think the Doctor is still the. Doctor.
• 2:06:51
  But now Jano has bits of the Doctor in him.
• 2:06:58
  That's a whole nother story. That is the.
• 2:07:03
  Rudest. Line ever to be answered or the
• 2:07:06
  hamster. With a blunt pen knife.
• 2:07:07
  The last one we want to think about is Frederick Jaeger and
• 2:07:10
  William Artner having sex together.
• 2:07:12
  Good grief. Oh.
• 2:07:14
  No, look, exhausted. I think we've said this before
• 2:07:18
  in episode 1. They're very.
• 2:07:19
  Dominator like costumes. The guards, aren't they?
• 2:07:22
  They're across a Dominator meets a robot man.
• 2:07:24
  Basically. Don't say Dominator is too loud,
• 2:07:26
  all right? Will be listening.
• 2:07:31
  Stephen's what Stephen's going. Around doing is firing everyone.
• 2:07:35
  Worthy Nissa, isn't he he? Is.
• 2:07:37
  Loving this Stephen and. Nissa.
• 2:07:38
  There, that's who. You don't want to give a gun.
• 2:07:40
  To it's a massacre. A bit of a blurry Talisman, I
• 2:07:46
  think those. Helmets look a bit like the
• 2:07:48
  robo. Men, you know, I've literally
• 2:07:50
  said that already have. You I really don't listen to you
• 2:07:53
  are not. Listening to me at.
• 2:07:54
  All this time. You're too transfixed on these
• 2:07:56
  amazing performances from the savages.
• 2:07:59
  Junkura's work is. Beguiling me, I'm going to.
• 2:08:04
  Try it there. You know, John, your tea.
• 2:08:06
  'S ready. I've.
• 2:08:07
  Got to do a commentary. On the wedding of River Song
• 2:08:11
  next week I'm going to try and get 60 still images of the
• 2:08:14
  wedding of River Song and try and tell the story.
• 2:08:18
  I could do it, do you think, with any of the times that have
• 2:08:20
  been? Scanned on it any of the
• 2:08:22
  stories. That have been, I suppose.
• 2:08:24
  Animated doesn't really count, but ones that have found that
• 2:08:26
  the telly stamps have ever been misleading on anything, I
• 2:08:31
  wonder. What the most?
• 2:08:33
  Sort of misleading theory from the deep.
• 2:08:35
  There was no telly snaps where they all had long arms.
• 2:08:37
  Like Mr. Tickle, like you had in the animation?
• 2:08:40
  No who? How can a telly snap be
• 2:08:42
  misleading? Well, like just you don't really
• 2:08:45
  know. You can't see the actions.
• 2:08:46
  You can't see the the mannerisms and you know, somebody might
• 2:08:49
  sound like they're doing something, but it might be
• 2:08:51
  something completely different and change the whole emphasis of
• 2:08:55
  that scene. You just don't.
• 2:08:57
  Know do you I like it's just haven't always unknown there is
• 2:09:00
  any other show that. Is poured over like missing
• 2:09:04
  episodes, a poured over of other missing TV.
• 2:09:07
  Yeah, yeah. But.
• 2:09:08
  And do you think there's? Another fan base that does this?
• 2:09:11
  Probably not to this extent. Like has anyone ever caught you?
• 2:09:16
  Watching a reconstruction and you've had to be.
• 2:09:20
  Sort of going, Oh yeah, I'm. Watching still images of Doctor?
• 2:09:23
  Really. I don't, in fact.
• 2:09:27
  Oh my God. When you on Mark's podcast to
• 2:09:29
  watch you. When Sarah Tube was doing these,
• 2:09:31
  she found them in Terminable didn't she?
• 2:09:34
  Did she get used to modern day TV though?
• 2:09:36
  Isn't she get used to that? She really enjoyed.
• 2:09:38
  And the stories. Would just tell us that I think
• 2:09:40
  Savages came across well. Does she like?
• 2:09:42
  That one, yeah, We had fun with that.
• 2:09:45
  But then, when the story started moving, gunfire.
• 2:09:47
  She weren't impressed. Come rain or sign shine.
• 2:09:54
  Sarah tube were like all the stories have a terrible
• 2:09:57
  reputation yeah that's what happens you just.
• 2:10:00
  Did time flight. But you like that.
• 2:10:01
  It wasn't. Bad.
• 2:10:02
  Yeah, There you go. What's going on here?
• 2:10:07
  Who's that man there? He looks like Steven.
• 2:10:09
  Moffitt. Did you see him with the with
• 2:10:11
  the black hair? So we're coming up to the climax
• 2:10:14
  now. Where Stephen is.
• 2:10:15
  Well, the lab's going to get smashed up very soon.
• 2:10:19
  So does Jano just say that's it, this is.
• 2:10:21
  Our our dreams of being superior beings are over.
• 2:10:25
  We need to be kind to the savages.
• 2:10:28
  That's a conscience, doesn't he? He gets the moral, he gets the.
• 2:10:32
  Morals, doesn't he? Well then, is this the story
• 2:10:35
  where the Doctor? Has the most influence on the
• 2:10:38
  planet 1 he leaves his companion and two he literally gives his
• 2:10:42
  mind to the evil ruler. It's his Jano's fault.
• 2:10:46
  That is true. That is true.
• 2:10:49
  Could you do that if you could take on?
• 2:10:51
  Someone else's mind for a bit, you know, just sort of a top
• 2:10:54
  layer. No, no.
• 2:10:56
  Why are you? Looking at me like that.
• 2:10:58
  My mind's not that diseased, you know.
• 2:11:00
  You'd have a wonderful time with my mind and your ears.
• 2:11:02
  Look, did I ask Stephen Moffier? What's that character?
• 2:11:06
  Really? Not really, Stephen.
• 2:11:09
  Moffy I never knew you were in 60s, Doctor.
• 2:11:11
  Who? Oh, that's right.
• 2:11:12
  He sent you. Really.
• 2:11:13
  It's evil. Machine.
• 2:11:15
  A wordy climax, isn't it? I don't.
• 2:11:17
  Have those not too. I mean, there's a smashing up at
• 2:11:19
  the end and everything, but there's not a great.
• 2:11:23
  I feel like it's quite a quiet. Revolution, in a way.
• 2:11:27
  It's not really a revolution. Is it not really bloody?
• 2:11:29
  Enough. No, you're right.
• 2:11:31
  And it's not really sort of, you know, you know, yeah, I think
• 2:11:34
  about teens smashing the machine, you know, bringing down
• 2:11:37
  the authority figures. That's done more in the crotons,
• 2:11:40
  isn't it, when you have the students going into the museum
• 2:11:43
  and and literally smashing machines.
• 2:11:45
  Yeah, Here we go. All this equipment is being.
• 2:11:49
  Smashed up? Yeah.
• 2:11:51
  Dodo the wash. Dodo.
• 2:11:52
  The Doctor's. Got a stick?
• 2:11:55
  Jesus, I've been taking. This plastic box up.
• 2:11:56
  A kiss. Aren't they the lot of them?
• 2:11:59
  Steve is like we're. Going to need this technology.
• 2:12:02
  If I'm taking over, do you think this was a one take thing to?
• 2:12:05
  Smash everything up like Barbara in the city of Morphos in the
• 2:12:09
  Keys of Mariners, where she misses the look at.
• 2:12:13
  Dodo Jesus, she's going to push that.
• 2:12:14
  Glass case. Over she's like, finally some.
• 2:12:17
  Action. I always.
• 2:12:20
  Wanted to be one of The Avengers.
• 2:12:25
  No chairs come flying through. Jesus Christ, this thing.
• 2:12:30
  Oh, I can that. Person with the.
• 2:12:31
  Silly film being filming this. I know exactly.
• 2:12:34
  Yeah, it's. All collapsed.
• 2:12:36
  It's been completely annihilated.
• 2:12:38
  You see, this is where. It could be misleading on telly
• 2:12:39
  snap it could have looked. Really rubbish.
• 2:12:41
  No, I like to pretend it looks amazing.
• 2:12:43
  Oh. We got a little bit.
• 2:12:44
  Oh, no, here we go now. Yeah.
• 2:12:46
  Oh no, there's there's some. What's dodo with that crowbar?
• 2:12:52
  Knocked out William Hartnell with that, do you remember?
• 2:12:54
  That sequence at the end of the visitation.
• 2:12:56
  Where Janet Fielden's smack in the gum.
• 2:12:58
  Terereleptil with the gum. She is in a patch on Dodo and
• 2:13:02
  this. Did you see her?
• 2:13:03
  I didn't realise how many Sydney footage bits there are.
• 2:13:05
  From. This oh I.
• 2:13:08
  Wish Dodo had been more violent. She could.
• 2:13:10
  Have been the ace of the 60s. Who you calling small?
• 2:13:15
  Beaten up with. Dalek beaten up I'm.
• 2:13:17
  Annoyed you? Up to something that's got some
• 2:13:21
  poor. Bloody actor in there, Jackie
• 2:13:23
  stop. And it's still.
• 2:13:28
  Going on? Not sure.
• 2:13:29
  What's going on now? Stephen moves across to help
• 2:13:32
  defend Jaino. Oh, there we go.
• 2:13:35
  He's like, no, no, don't hurt him, please.
• 2:13:38
  All right. He now sees the Doctor and
• 2:13:40
  points. The gun at him.
• 2:13:41
  I'm sure it's very useful to everyone.
• 2:13:43
  And now we're coming up to this Stephen's.
• 2:13:46
  Decision very soon. His noble decision.
• 2:13:50
  To take over the planet of the Savages.
• 2:13:52
  Oh, it could have been called Planet a decision, but we've had
• 2:13:54
  that already. Haven't we?
• 2:13:55
  Yeah. What was it you said?
• 2:13:57
  Goodbye. Stephen.
• 2:13:59
  God, you weren't figuring out. These tiles.
• 2:14:02
  Yeah, I'd have called. It you know.
• 2:14:04
  The departure of doom. Oh, here we go.
• 2:14:08
  They're asking Stephen to to keep stay on the planet.
• 2:14:13
  So now. Hartnell delivers the.
• 2:14:14
  Lines and he goes well my boy, you know you know I think you'll
• 2:14:18
  do a good job here, whereas you know the second they said cut
• 2:14:21
  they're like fuck off them Peter you leave me like everybody
• 2:14:24
  else. You know he didn't like people
• 2:14:27
  go in, did he? Well, no, because everything's
• 2:14:29
  changing around him. And he's, I think he quite
• 2:14:32
  needed that, didn't he? I think he knew his time was up.
• 2:14:35
  I don't know. I know I do at this.
• 2:14:37
  Point I think he but. Then is this Do they have a
• 2:14:39
  recording break here is this. Summer holiday time.
• 2:14:44
  It's the what? No.
• 2:14:45
  War Machine is the end of the block.
• 2:14:46
  Oh yeah, still got another one to go.
• 2:14:49
  And apparently he didn't. Like these sort.
• 2:14:52
  Of young hip swinging 60s companions.
• 2:14:55
  Do they? So I think it's just new people.
• 2:14:57
  He didn't like the tone. Of the show either the.
• 2:14:59
  Fact that there was so much murder in it.
• 2:15:00
  Now whether to be fair, there was a fair bit of murder and
• 2:15:03
  Doctor Who might have been a convenient excuse.
• 2:15:10
  I do think it's. I do.
• 2:15:12
  Think it is a good thing that he cared about the integrity of the
• 2:15:15
  show. I don't think it's a good thing
• 2:15:18
  that he took it out on the production team.
• 2:15:20
  Well, if they're being, they're not.
• 2:15:22
  Doing their best. Then he's going to tell him,
• 2:15:24
  isn't it? Yeah, but you're you do have
• 2:15:27
  what? You're doing there encouraging
• 2:15:28
  workplace bullying. Well, I don't know if it was
• 2:15:31
  that bad. I like how.
• 2:15:34
  So much time. Is given to this discussion
• 2:15:38
  because it and it could have been.
• 2:15:39
  Worse, it could. Have been I've decided to stay
• 2:15:42
  after all this. It literally could have put the
• 2:15:43
  crowbar down and gone, right? I'm staying.
• 2:15:45
  And look, I love the way that Dodo sold.
• 2:15:47
  Really. Froze herself into his arm and
• 2:15:49
  he grabs her head. That's the way I'll grab your
• 2:15:51
  head just like that, OK? Oh look, Jane, it's got.
• 2:15:56
  Changed. It's given that I don't know if
• 2:15:58
  that's because there's not enough.
• 2:15:59
  Plot. But it's given the discussion,
• 2:16:02
  it's given the wrap up that I do still think it feels like it
• 2:16:06
  feels quite. Brief.
• 2:16:08
  Maybe a couple of minutes. That's not like, well, Ben and
• 2:16:10
  Polly. They weren't even in half.
• 2:16:13
  Their last story? That's not like.
• 2:16:15
  Ian and Bob well, Dodo next. Ian and Bob, 10.
• 2:16:17
  Minutes. Yeah, she's hugging.
• 2:16:19
  Stephen being like I could have had a.
• 2:16:20
  Better Dodo hugging Stephen here is more of a goodbye for Dodo
• 2:16:25
  than it is for her in the war machine.
• 2:16:26
  In fact, she might as well just stayed.
• 2:16:28
  Yeah, why do you stay with them? Just.
• 2:16:30
  Stay two of them there. Yeah.
• 2:16:31
  And then the Doctor lands, meets Polly.
• 2:16:34
  Polly does that weird nose thing in the office.
• 2:16:36
  This is my secretary and. Then he could.
• 2:16:40
  Have gone off there, but yeah, why didn't?
• 2:16:41
  Dodo stay there have been Queen of Savages with Stephen.
• 2:16:45
  That would be amazing. Oh, it's moving again.
• 2:16:48
  Yeah. Well, I must say, young man,
• 2:16:50
  you've got yourself a. Nice little position here,
• 2:16:52
  haven't you? Oh.
• 2:16:57
  Look, there's loads moving now. The most clips moving in there,
• 2:17:02
  so 4 isn't there? All of the handshake between the
• 2:17:05
  Doctor and Stephen. That's lovely.
• 2:17:08
  In fact, look at that. It's exactly the same shot you
• 2:17:11
  got in Planet of Fire. There we go.
• 2:17:13
  Do you remember the Doctor and Tolo?
• 2:17:15
  Yeah. Tolo.
• 2:17:16
  And Tolo. Come along, my dear, It's time
• 2:17:21
  we're. Off.
• 2:17:22
  It's very similar, isn't it? Yeah.
• 2:17:25
  Might as well be shot for sure. Oh.
• 2:17:26
  No shit he's. Touching a red look.
• 2:17:29
  Everyone's sort of violating. Dodo in this?
• 2:17:31
  Episode of violating She ended up with an.
• 2:17:35
  STD She. Got used to being touched like
• 2:17:39
  our farm in arm actually. This is all very nice, isn't it?
• 2:17:42
  This is all very sweet. Did we actually see Stephen
• 2:17:46
  again or is no, that was it. He looked round and then looked
• 2:17:49
  back and. Off he went on to his thing.
• 2:17:51
  I mean he didn't even pick up hi-fi.
• 2:17:52
  He didn't get his stuff from the Tard.
• 2:17:55
  What's that panda? For God.
• 2:17:56
  'S sake. Oh yeah, he took it into.
• 2:17:58
  The TARDIS. He could have gone, gone.
• 2:17:59
  Back no one. Ever goes back and gets the
• 2:18:01
  stuff? From the Tardis, it looks like
• 2:18:02
  the machines have started working again.
• 2:18:05
  Well, I think they're. Yeah, things are.
• 2:18:07
  Gets Steven will sort it out, don't worry.
• 2:18:08
  Look at that gorgeous shot. I don't know why I love shots of
• 2:18:11
  the. TARDIS from above like that?
• 2:18:13
  That looks gorgeous, Christopher Barry.
• 2:18:16
  You've earned your money. He does?
• 2:18:17
  Well, Yeah. And that's it.
• 2:18:20
  Is that just the? Ending Todd is taking off Oh
• 2:18:23
  yeah, next week the War machine. So I think people should give.
• 2:18:28
  This another go. Even if it's just listening to
• 2:18:31
  the audio, even the target book, you know and hopefully one day
• 2:18:37
  no, but just to know the. Story.
• 2:18:40
  She's like, just people. Just don't know the story I
• 2:18:43
  don't think. Is this out as a?
• 2:18:45
  Soundtrack with linking narration yes by Peter Purvis
• 2:18:49
  yes I say that you know what I do like the reconstructions, but
• 2:18:54
  I think I prefer those soundtracks you know well yes it
• 2:18:58
  just. Depends what I mean.
• 2:18:59
  Hopefully one day this will be animated or that person in the
• 2:19:02
  basement will be fed up for watching it every night and want
• 2:19:05
  to give it out. But until then, we've there's a
• 2:19:09
  few ways you can Why is it in a basement?
• 2:19:11
  I don't know. I just that's.
• 2:19:12
  How I imagined them. Well, some.
• 2:19:13
  Evil superheroes sitting in their basement.
• 2:19:15
  Well, we've all stored all these films that well.
• 2:19:17
  It's not just going to be in their living room, is it?
• 2:19:20
  If it's so secret and precious, maybe it is.
• 2:19:23
  I don't know. Well, look, we have to find
• 2:19:25
  three reasons to. Recommend the Savage Dog.
• 2:19:26
  That means it's going to be hard.
• 2:19:27
  We'll start with you, the guest. Performance of Frederick
• 2:19:33
  Jagerbaum I. Think he doesn't He's.
• 2:19:38
  And he's, he's a forgotten adversary, isn't he?
• 2:19:41
  Yeah, in a way. But the way that he takes on the
• 2:19:44
  personality of the doctor, it's something that hasn't been.
• 2:19:47
  What do I say? Adversary.
• 2:19:49
  Adversary. Whatever.
• 2:19:50
  Whatever. Well, I.
• 2:19:51
  Think you're right? You know how?
• 2:19:52
  People always have a go at you for mispronouncing.
• 2:19:54
  Yeah, I know We always do podcast.
• 2:19:55
  We watch you. I think it if I'll start.
• 2:19:57
  Your education now by the time we get. 20 years later, you'd.
• 2:20:02
  Be able to say everything. Perfectly.
• 2:20:04
  I was at the end of the first thing.
• 2:20:05
  That's my first. OK, I am going to say.
• 2:20:07
  Raymond Jones. Music which is very distinct.
• 2:20:10
  It's all woodwinds and strings, and I like the sort of tinkling
• 2:20:15
  music when they're exploring the city at the beginning, and I
• 2:20:18
  like that. Crazy strings when the drama.
• 2:20:24
  Hits it's it's very unique sounding Doctor Who story I'm
• 2:20:29
  going to say the writing for. Dodo.
• 2:20:32
  She's really written well in this.
• 2:20:34
  I mean, if you've only maybe seen that, you know, the
• 2:20:37
  celestial toy maker episode where she's written as a
• 2:20:39
  complete child and you're like, oh, she must be the most
• 2:20:43
  annoying companion ever. She is rolling that dice all
• 2:20:46
  over the place and everything. Then watch this, give this a try
• 2:20:50
  because it really does show what her character can do, her
• 2:20:53
  exploring that city in episode 1 or not, you know, not taking
• 2:20:58
  everything for granted that they see around like Stephen does.
• 2:21:00
  Actually, at the beginning, she's the one that notices
• 2:21:03
  something's going on and wanders off into the laboratory.
• 2:21:05
  Laboratory. Laboratory, not laboratory.
• 2:21:10
  Are you ready? Your education.
• 2:21:12
  Continues laboratory. No laboratory.
• 2:21:15
  Laboratory just pronounce. Things.
• 2:21:17
  Straight, not. Laboratory, anyway, it's the.
• 2:21:20
  Writing of Dodo. OK.
• 2:21:23
  And Joe I. Do think as they go along
• 2:21:25
  they're getting better at writing her because I think in
• 2:21:28
  the Ark and the special make her, she is written young and
• 2:21:31
  then she starts having some fun in the Gunfighters.
• 2:21:34
  Remember that line? She goes, I'll have a bash when
• 2:21:36
  she's at the piano and yeah. And then she's very useful here,
• 2:21:41
  may I say, very destructive at the climax and the way that they
• 2:21:44
  write her out in. Oh no.
• 2:21:45
  Sorry, forget that. That's right.
• 2:21:48
  What? In the war machines?
• 2:21:49
  It's just. Oh no, that was a joke.
• 2:21:55
  What's the joke? So they didn't give her a good.
• 2:21:58
  Right. Sorry, I was missing something.
• 2:22:02
  I mean, she is written out. Polly.
• 2:22:04
  Says she says. She'd like to stay.
• 2:22:06
  With her aunt in the country. And thanks for the adventures.
• 2:22:10
  Terrible. What's that mean?
• 2:22:11
  Where? Who wrote?
• 2:22:14
  Ian Stewart Blackwright. In the.
• 2:22:15
  War Machines. So Ian, is your scene for Dodos
• 2:22:21
  Leaving done yet? Next question, see ya what's.
• 2:22:29
  That mean no, that was a terrible story I did.
• 2:22:33
  Not explain that very. Well, but you can imagine that
• 2:22:35
  like, this is really great. We just need that.
• 2:22:37
  That last scene. You're probably always baffled
• 2:22:40
  as I am. I know what I mean.
• 2:22:42
  My second. Thing then is.
• 2:22:46
  Because I think. That some of the.
• 2:22:49
  Nuts and bolts, this story are quite cliched, you know, running
• 2:22:52
  around a quarry and stuff like that.
• 2:22:54
  I do really like the psychological angle of the
• 2:22:57
  Doctor imprinting on Jaino, and I think the sequences where he's
• 2:23:02
  really struggling with the two personalities would have been
• 2:23:05
  really interesting to see. In fact, it would have been a
• 2:23:08
  bit like Frederick Yeager playing Professor Sorenson in
• 2:23:11
  Planet of Evil, struggling with two personalities, which is what
• 2:23:14
  he does. He must be like, why is it every
• 2:23:17
  time I'm in Doctor Who I'm schizophrenic?
• 2:23:19
  What's that word too much? Deny on this.
• 2:23:24
  Anyway, back to you. I would say it gives.
• 2:23:28
  Stephen the send off that he deserves.
• 2:23:31
  King of a planet. He is a king.
• 2:23:33
  King. He is a king, king of a planet.
• 2:23:38
  He is a king. He is a king.
• 2:23:39
  Yeah. So I I'm.
• 2:23:40
  Glad that they did give that time and they thought about it a
• 2:23:44
  bit. OK, They didn't think about it
• 2:23:46
  loads. Do you think he was a benevolent
• 2:23:48
  ruler? I think he got stuck down to it.
• 2:23:51
  Straight. Away.
• 2:23:52
  Yeah, yeah. What sort of world do you think
• 2:23:54
  he created? I think a very nice peaceful
• 2:23:56
  sort of post technology. Yeah, I think he.
• 2:23:59
  Because he knows his science. He's a space pilot, he knows
• 2:24:02
  what's going on. They've never mentioned it.
• 2:24:05
  But. It's as I say, they could have
• 2:24:07
  just. Married him off or something.
• 2:24:08
  That's true. I mean the only other.
• 2:24:11
  Thing unless he was killed. Off, but he wouldn't really.
• 2:24:13
  Not another death, you know, Not another one in season 3.
• 2:24:17
  Another one, no. You couldn't have done that.
• 2:24:21
  So. I think at least they've given
• 2:24:24
  it some. Thought compared.
• 2:24:26
  To everyone around them. That's fair.
• 2:24:29
  Well then the. Final I would like to say
• 2:24:32
  Christopher Barry's direction, but actually I'm going to
• 2:24:34
  reserve my final spot for the Governor, William Hartnell.
• 2:24:38
  We've had a lot of discussion of other First Doctors in this
• 2:24:41
  commentary, but there is only one.
• 2:24:44
  And whilst he is written out of episode 3, he gets to be very
• 2:24:51
  funny. And first of all, he's sort of
• 2:24:53
  the investigator always wandering around with his
• 2:24:55
  reacting vibrator in episode 1 and doing his sort of, you know,
• 2:24:59
  a scientific exploration, these people, a great time of peace
• 2:25:03
  and prosperity. Then he gets to do is, you know,
• 2:25:08
  that's one thing you haven't thought about, but I will oppose
• 2:25:11
  you and defeat you. I know that's the second time
• 2:25:13
  I've done that. But anyway, he does moral
• 2:25:15
  indignation brilliantly. Then episode 3 gets to have a
• 2:25:19
  stroke, which looks very convincing.
• 2:25:22
  And then in episode 4, even in his weakened state, he has great
• 2:25:26
  authority. And then he gets that touching
• 2:25:28
  moment with Stephen at the end of the story where he shakes his
• 2:25:31
  hand. He's marvellous.
• 2:25:32
  William Hartnell, you have not been bested.
• 2:25:35
  I know you can't hear this. We ain't got a ouage board, so
• 2:25:37
  we can't contact you. But you're still the governor.
• 2:25:42
  Yeah, I. Agreed.
• 2:25:43
  Agreed. No agree I.
• 2:25:46
  Agreed. No, no, you agree.
• 2:25:48
  I'm just. Saying agreed, Yeah.
• 2:25:53
  That is, that is, and I think everyone should give the savages
• 2:25:56
  a try. As a unexplored Heartnell, I
• 2:26:00
  hope you all have as much fun. With it as we have, can I just
• 2:26:06
  ask you one question before we go?
• 2:26:07
  Very well. Well, where are we heading?
• 2:26:09
  Next I. Don't know in our.
• 2:26:11
  Hamster of a blunt pen. Knife journey?
• 2:26:13
  I don't know. I've got a feeling you.
• 2:26:15
  Know you and I are. Going to be watching a Jodie
• 2:26:17
  Whittaker episode. Oh OK.
• 2:26:19
  Featuring recently. Cancelled, Chris.
• 2:26:21
  Noff great recently cancelled. John Barrowman Brilliant.
• 2:26:26
  Not recently. Cancelled Noel.
• 2:26:27
  Clark, Revolution of the Daleks. Let's give it a go.
• 2:26:33
  Well, I think this is a. Bit of a divisive.
• 2:26:35
  Episode are you are you positive about it?
• 2:26:38
  Oh, I am positive about it. Actually, you are.
• 2:26:40
  Yeah, I can't wait after what you just done.
• 2:26:42
  With the savages. I can't wait to see what you do
• 2:26:44
  with that one. And shout out to the person that
• 2:26:46
  did the cine. Footage back in the 80s of this.
• 2:26:49
  If you're still around, let us know.
• 2:26:51
  Have you got any more? You know, well done for doing
• 2:26:54
  that. And can I just say absolutely.
• 2:26:56
  Do you know who else is a king? John Kura.
• 2:26:58
  Yeah. Let's just say thank you to John
• 2:26:59
  Kura. Thank you, John.
• 2:27:01
  Still with us? No Ouija.
• 2:27:03
  Board, thank you, John Kura. Thank you, John Kura taking
• 2:27:05
  those snaps. I know you were.
• 2:27:07
  Distracted at points, you're probably having a cigarette
• 2:27:09
  somewhere or having your dinner while you're just pressing, you
• 2:27:13
  know, play on your on your camera.
• 2:27:15
  But well done. Thanks so much for doing that
• 2:27:17
  and honestly your. Integrity for getting that shot
• 2:27:21
  of Michael Craig with his tits out yes so when we.
• 2:27:26
  Say it was a. Thank you so much for that, so
• 2:27:30
  much. But also.
• 2:27:32
  Thank you to the person that probably has this episode
• 2:27:35
  somewhere. If you do, please hand it over
• 2:27:38
  in. Alright, yeah.
• 2:27:39
  Everyone's. Food Fan is willing to give one.
• 2:27:41
  Pound, I realise that. Means we only have £100 at the
• 2:27:44
  end but we are willing to send you a cheque.
• 2:27:47
  I just want to see some savages. Let's go then, OK?